Why Hard Work and Basics Are Non-Negotiable in Real Estate with Shant Banosian(Replay)

[00:00:00] Suneet: Welcome back to the reside platform podcast. I'm Sunita Agarwal, and I'm excited to introduce today's special rewind episode, featuring an impactful conversation with Shant Binojian. Shant has been guaranteed rates, top loan officer for eight years and number one nationwide for five years. Licensed in all 50 States, Shant has closed over 40, 000 loans and funded over 9 billion.

[00:00:27] Suneet: He's well known for his exceptional service and industry expertise. In this episode, Shant shares his insights from the 2008 mortgage crisis, walks us through how he structures his mortgage team using the EOS system, and shows the importance of having coaches for both personal and professional growth.

[00:00:46] Suneet: He also dives into leadership, Self sufficiency, recruitment, mentorship, and continuous learning offering invaluable advice for success in the real estate world. Stay tuned for some incredible wisdom from one of the best in the business. And we'll see you next week with a brand new episode. Enjoy.

[00:01:06] Shant: We always talk about getting back to the basics and never getting away from the basics. Well, the basics work, right? And like, I stuck to the basics big time in 2008, 2009, 2010. And I built an entire career. I was an animal, you know, and I still am today. Like, you know, I was working seven days a week. We're literally always working on the business and we're working in the business.

[00:01:25] Shant: Like, I think you have to do both. Like, I don't like, you know, a lot of people will say, Oh, you just got to work on the business. Not in it. Well, I think you kind of got to be in it too, to make it happen, especially right now, like times of change like this. Like, I think you have to be in it and even a little bit more because you have to know what's going on, what's working, what's not working.

[00:01:40] Shant: Everybody thinks they want to have a business and be a CEO, but they spend too much time acting like salespeople.

[00:01:50] Nick: Welcome back to the reside platform podcast. We have shot, but no ZN, the number one loan officer in the nation here to talk with myself, new McLean and Sunny Agarwal about teamwork, building teams, scaling teams, and how did he become the number one loan officer? Plus, what do we think is going to happen in the future of the real estate industry, mortgage rates?

[00:02:14] Nick: How do we connect with our clients? How do we close more deals and be successful in these times? Sean, welcome to the podcast.

[00:02:21] Shant: Thanks for having me guys. I really appreciate it. Sounds like we got a lot to talk about. That's a big list, man.

[00:02:26] Suneet: It's a big list. Sean our first mortgage professional on the Reside Platform Podcast?

[00:02:32] Nick: Yeah, I think he is. I think officially, and if you're going to start with the, go into the mortgage world, you might as well go to the, straight to the top. I

[00:02:39] Suneet: know, right? Yes. Let's talk about those numbers. People are going to say, give us some context around that. Incredible ranking, please.

[00:02:51] Shant: So, yeah, so I've been in the business,approximately going on, on the retail side, about 15 years. that's what I really, I kind of opened up my doors in 2008.during that time we've closed about 9 billion in mortgages, which is, a lot, you

[00:03:05] Suneet: know,

[00:03:05] Shant: yeah, yeah. So we did 2 billion and, we did 2.

[00:03:09] Shant: 2 billion in 2021. We did about a billion last year, about a billion seven the year before, and then this year, we're not doing any refi is almost zero. So, numbers will be down a little bit, probably closer to like over 600 million, but still think we'll hold on to the, hold on to the top spot.

[00:03:25] Shant: volume is down across the board, but you know, even this year, all things being, equal, like it's like a number that I dreamed about doing way back in the day in my career, nevermind in one year. So I'm. very eternally grateful that I, I found this amazing business. Awesome.

[00:03:40] Suneet: So 2008 is when you opened up like the real, the retail side business to consumer.

[00:03:48] Suneet: Were you in the wholesale prior to that?

[00:03:51] Shant: No. When I first got into the mortgage business, like in 2003, it was, this is all I've really ever done. I thought I wanted to be an attorney. I quit my like property management job after six months and applied to law school. And then I, literally ran into a buddy at a gym, telling me that he was in the mortgage business and how, this is 2003, so like how much, how well he was doing.

[00:04:10] Shant: I actually got a job at his company at a,small subprime, a regional subprime mortgage company, and worked there really successfully, fell in love with the business from 2003 to 2007. And then in 2007, the whole company went out of business in one day, and I was without a job.

[00:04:24] Shant: Yeah. And I, decided that I, I really knew that I wanted to do, I wanted to stay in the mortgage business and I didn't want to get out even though the whole thing was floating around us. And I commit, I found a company, out of New Jersey of all places, even though I'm in Massachusetts that I commit some, to let me open up their first office in Massachusetts and they were, I don't know if they were dumb enough at the time or smart enough to see our potential one or the other, but they let us do it.

[00:04:46] Shant: And I don't think they regretted it. within a couple of years we were their top branch. I was their top loan officer. And then,fortunately that company sold, the whole platform to guaranteed rate. And that's really kind of in 2012 when my career took off and really haven't looked back since then.

[00:05:01] Suneet: I didn't like at the hardest time. I was in mortgage and I got, yeah, I was okay. That was all, I'm out of here. so that's great. And Nick, I know you got in real estate around the same time too, right? Like you guys came into the hardest market.

[00:05:17] Shant: Yeah. That's never happened to me. And,especially now, in all seriousness, like the lessons I learned and the experience I gained from starting in a market like that, we always talk about getting back to the basics and never getting away from the basics while the basics work, right.

[00:05:30] Shant: And I stuck to the basics big time in 2008, 2009, 2010. And I built an entire career and reputation and Randolph it, and, learning, remembering that and kind of sticking to that over the last 18 months, When that's what you really kind of have to do and stay focused and have something to compare it to has been.

[00:05:49] Shant: Amazing. And so I'm leading on that experience. And what I learned during that time right now, even though we haven't established business, that's got a great brand reputation, but we're doing all the same things just to continue to gain market share and stay focused.

[00:06:02] Nick: So what are those lessons for the people that didn't get into the industry from seven, eight, nine, 10.

[00:06:10] Nick: Yeah. What are those lessons? Because I, I'm with you. I, I go back to that, that struggle and how I, how I was able to build a business during the hardest part of the industry. What are those lessons?

[00:06:21] Shant: Yeah. So biggest lesson, really, if I look back at it,when you're just getting started, you're just trying to survive.

[00:06:27] Shant: Right. So I didn't know what was going on around me. Like I didn't listen to any noise. Like I was so tunnel vision and focused. In terms of yeah, activities and actions that I had to do all the time. So I was focused on business development, establishing relationships, developing a brand and then understanding like being the person in my market that like everybody could come to that my realtor partners, if they had an answer, because there was so much chaos and confusion that like, if you could be the certainty and stability of the market.

[00:06:53] Shant: And like always be on like, your phone rings and so that was part of it I was an animal, and I still am today like, I was working seven days a week I was always on and like I didn't really i'm not one of those people that like Is like i'm gonna do what it takes to win and I was just Like literally like hard work and effort, goes a very, very long way, right?

[00:07:15] Shant: You can, it makes up for a lot of mistakes. you, we always, you hear a lot of people say like, well, to do as much business as you did last year, the year before you have to work two or three times as it's harder and be okay with that. I'm totally okay with that. Right. but not a lot of people are like a lot of people will say it, but that actually the doing is a whole different thing.

[00:07:31] Shant: if you watch me work today. You wouldn't know that my volume or my, anything is different than two or three years ago when we did 2 billion, right. just cause I'm still putting the same effort in and then,I'm just constantly observing the market and being the solution for what, like the obstacles and challenges are in this market, like I'm constantly just trying to fill that void for my partners and my clients.

[00:07:52] Shant: and that's as simple as I'll make it. Like those two or three things, work for me. And I, I know every single week what I need to bring to the table in terms of.my accountability metrics for me, my team. and we're just like constantly, we're literally always working on the business and we're working in the business.

[00:08:09] Shant: I think you have to do both. I don't like, a lot of people will say, Oh, you just got to work on the business, not in it. Well, I think you kind of got to be in it too, to make it happen, especially right now, like in times of change like this, I think you have to be in it even a little bit more because you have to know what's going on, what's working and what's not working.

[00:08:26] Shant: How do

[00:08:26] Suneet: we ask you big team? Number one. Yeah. What's the structure?

[00:08:33] Shant: Yeah. So there's me as the, visionary and, and,called CEO of the team. I have a leadership team of, that runs sales, marketing, business development and operations. Right. So like I have an inside, sales team that has kind of serves in two functions like.

[00:08:49] Shant: they fulfill all the leads that me and the business development team generate. there's, I have my assistants that, will work for me on, on my end in terms of all the backend administrative work to make sure I'm prepared for every single meeting and call. and running scenarios is emails come in, I get, thousand emails a day.

[00:09:06] Shant: We truly never leave. Without one responded to it. Almost every single one of them has responded to within minutes, if not immediately, like the minute it comes in, whether it's on a Monday or a Saturday or Sunday, I have marketing support, like full time marketing staff of, two people. I have a business development team of, a few people.

[00:09:23] Shant: And then I have an operations team, processors, closers, condo review, all that kind of stuff. Because, I'd say 30 percent of our business is on condominium. So we have a condo support staff that helps us process all that business as well. So are they're all here in the U. S.? Everybody's in the U.

[00:09:40] Shant: S. not everybody's in Massachusetts, I'd say about 50 percent of my team is in Mass and then the other 50 percent is scattered mostly throughout New England.

[00:09:49] Nick: I want to go back to something you said that resonated with me. We're always working on the business and in the business because we're told you hire coaches and the first thing a coach is going to tell you, you need to work on the business, not in the business.

[00:10:04] Nick: And they almost talk down at anyone in the business. And today, for instance, I was in the office, went in the office. And went to my director of sales and said, asked a couple of questions. And I said, put me on, put me on the call list because I need to experience what's happening for me to make a good decision moving forward.

[00:10:26] Nick: So I need you to insert me in the business so that I can work on the business versus, let me just sit back in my ivory tower. Is that similar to what you're saying where you have, you, you have to put your, Ear to the, to the ground or to the, to the railroad to kind of hear what's happening way far away.

[00:10:45] Shant: Yeah, absolutely. I'm still talking to clients. I'm still meeting face to face with my partners. I'm very, very structured with how we work on the business. Like we have pretty much almost every single day, I have an hour or two committed specifically to working on my business where that's all we're doing, literally every single day.

[00:11:03] Shant: But then the other parts of my day are business development. Marketing and,sales, right? So high value activities that like also working on the business, but really just making the phone ring and, and, and expanding the brand by being in it for that other two or three hours a day, it gives me like real, that's where I get all my content for anything I post on social, any of the stuff we send out to our clients, how we coach all the different team members, how we constantlyand change our systems and processes because I'm like in it.

[00:11:39] Shant: So I know what clients and partners want and I've never gotten far away from it. and I'm, and my suggestion is, again, I'm not a coach. I'm not,a mentor. well, maybe I am a mentor to some people, but I'm not a paid mentor. Right. And, I think right now in massive times of change, like you've got to be in it a little bit more, not so much that you stop working on your business.

[00:11:58] Shant: I'm not, not suggesting that, but you kind of, and also,when you're handling that stuff,your conversion tends to go up when it's you yourself. And I think that every single, that, that conversion models a little bit more right now. and it also gives you that street cred with the rest of your team, where you're not like, I don't need credibility with my team.

[00:12:14] Shant: Like I've earned it every single day, but like to be, to be able to help them, as things are changing, as products changes, rates change, like for me to be able to answer almost every single question they throw at me and them to know that wow, this guy like really knows what he's talking about.

[00:12:26] Shant: Matters more than ever. And like I can talk, talk with anybody on mortgage anywhere in the country is I can get really minute and I can, I can talk very, very high level and I think that to me is, is a huge strength of mine, dude. So how do

[00:12:40] Suneet: you get your team, like how do you structure your team to be so efficient?

[00:12:46] Suneet: Because I feel like lots of entrepreneurs, real estate, not even real estate specific, right? That huge structure. To get efficiency and ultimately success. Like it's lacking, right, Nick. And that's part of what we talk about all the time. So you, in the mortgage side, how, how do you structure?

[00:13:09] Shant: Yeah.

[00:13:09] Shant: So there's really two things I'd say early on, early on, there was no structure, right? It was like purely just based on effort. Anyways, early on, how we got started was, I honestly learned a lot from the real estate agents, right? so when I was. I was, I'd go into their offices, they'd invite me in for their trainings.

[00:13:28] Shant: The real estate industry is always usually five or 10 years out of the mortgage business in terms of like entrepreneurship and structuring and even just going out and finding business. Like I'm always really, really impressed and that's why, I worked so close with so many top producers in the real estate side, not only because I want to do business with them, but I want to learn from them.

[00:13:45] Shant: And so I think that's unique, but I learned a lot in terms of how to develop teams. There was no mortgage teams. When I first got going, but then we hit, we hit a ceiling and, I just happened to fall into EOS. I had a friend of mine that was running EOS and he recommended the traction book and immediately, it was weird.

[00:14:03] Shant: Like I read the book the next day I hired, I, I, I interviewed an, integrator and, or implementer and they came into the office and, and I hired him on the spot. I just knew that, We needed some sort of systems and process in terms of how to run the business separately from anything mortgage related.

[00:14:19] Shant: And it's just forced us to, we use all the tools within EOS and traction and I've been on it now for seven years. I've had a,we've had our EOS coach the entire time. We tried for, during, during 2020 and 2021, whenever they went virtual, I actually stopped doing it. not, not stop the systems and processes, but stop working with the, the coach because everything was virtual and it just, my brain doesn't work that way, but the minute kind of, he was cool with being back in person with everybody on our team, we, we adopted it back and we've been on it now for the last two years again.

[00:14:50] Shant: So we took about one year break, but bottom line is. It just forces communication amongst all facets of the organization, really structured goals, quarterly, yearly, three year, five year, it, it forces accountability within every single part of the team in terms of metrics to make sure that if anything's falling off, you're identifying it within a week.

[00:15:10] Shant: and it just, it just has so many amazing tools. so it's really been like the operating system in my business. That's what it is. and it just forces us to hold ourselves accountable, and it constantly either grow or scale back. And, what's powerful about it is that,for anybody that's watching that isn't, EOS and traction, it forces you to accomplish, huge,every quarter we're usually accomplishing, 12 to 15 big items.

[00:15:31] Shant: so over the course of a year, we're implementing,50 to 60, Big rocks. And had we not been doing that, we might've been accomplishing like two or three over the course of a year, just constantly spinning our wheels. So that's been the secret to our efficiency. I don't know if EOS or traction is like the only thing, but it just, it worked for me and we really stick to, we're very strict about it and, it's worked, but I, so I think you need to have some sort of system in place.

[00:15:52] Shant: and there's a lot of them out there.

[00:15:54] Suneet: It's done. I hear coaching. I've heard about coaching a lot. How much coaches are you currently working with?

[00:16:02] Shant: So, so right now I work with John Chaplack, he's my, go to guy. I also have, I'm big into coaching, so like I have an EOS coach, I work with Chaplack, I've been working with him for three years, I have a personal trainer.

[00:16:14] Shant: at times I've had,almost like a, peak performance coach, like it's kind of ties in mindset and, and, and physical stuff separate,I know John obviously helps me with a ton of that stuff, but something a little bit different. I'm all into coaching. Like anytime I meet somebody that's interesting, I'm like, yeah, I'm working with somebody on social media right now, who's like my social media coach, so I'm all about being coached, like the investments that I make and that kind of stuff.

[00:16:36] Shant: Like one, you get better two, you're more interesting, right? Because you have more stuff to talk about to a wider range of people. and then, yeah, cause if you're usually like, if you find the right coaches, like there are people that, Like I'm attracted to people that have actually had success, not just been coaches with, because they wanted to become a coach, have a proven track record in, in their business.

[00:16:57] Shant: And if the other people have a proven track record. So, I'm also very strict about who, who I hire and who I pay. so I, I really look for. impressive people. Unfortunately, my, I've done pretty well. I haven't been burned by a coach yet.

[00:17:10] Suneet: As you were saying that, John just texted me and that was, he called me and I was like, Hey, I'm doing a podcast with Sean right now.

[00:17:18] Suneet: And he's, Oh, cool. He's a stud at the same time. We're talking about each other. It's so right on, right on to synergy. And dude, I love that, right? You gotta have a system. No one said create your own system. You gotta have a system. And work with people that are going to direct you into that process.

[00:17:37] Suneet: Right? I mean, it's pretty straightforward, right? I mean, what are your thoughts on that?

[00:17:42] Nick: Well, a lot of the, when you talk about EOS, a lot of that is the structure. It gives you structure. Yeah. It gives you a rhythm or another way to put it cadence that you don't have to think about. Like we're going to have this meeting that when on the calendar has already played out in advance and your whole team knows it.

[00:18:05] Nick: Cause I, I noticed this about reside is that we, a lot, it's not necessarily what we say, but it's the structure that we provide. A weekly training. A, a monthly onboarding where it's always happening regardless of whether or not you call for it and everyone can count on it. Do you see a lot of value in that in terms of the framework and the structure and the cadence?

[00:18:29] Nick: A hundred percent. Yeah.

[00:18:30] Shant: I mean, I think you need that and it's really hard to figure it out on your own, right? Like it's,like I, I think I've learned a lot from a bunch of different people and I've made parts authentic to me so I could do it. But I think the issue with. People in mortgage, people in real estate, whatever it is, everybody thinks they want to have a business and be a CEO, but they spend too much time acting like salespeople, right?

[00:18:55] Shant: And, and so it's not, it's not going to turn into a business if the only thing you're focused on is doing more deals, right? that's obviously very, very important, but like I'm focused on, as I said, sales operations, business development, marketing, branding, client fulfillment, client retention, like all those different things.

[00:19:11] Shant: We're talking about them every single week. And so, and I truly feel as if I'm a CEO running a business. I'm not just a great salesperson. you can go very far just being a salesperson and you can have a great life and you can make a lot of money. You, you're never going to get the freedom and scalability as if you're running it structured with a cadence,with, everybody moving on the team in the right direction.

[00:19:36] Shant: if you're the, when you're just a salesperson, you're moving the thing forward and if you're lucky, maybe one or two otherare going in the same direction. When you're running it truly like a business and there's clear communication, all that kind of stuff, the whole business from the, from every single employee, no matter what part of the business and knows what the goals are, objectives are, mission is for the week, the quarter, the metrics, all that kind of stuff.

[00:19:57] Shant: And it's just much more powerful. And the momentum you can get is, as big as your team is. I want you to

[00:20:03] Suneet: think one more time for all our viewers and listeners, because it's a writer. Talk about those different. Give us the different titles of those five, six different departments you have within your organization.

[00:20:18] Suneet: And everybody listening, everybody viewing, write this down, grade yourself, see if you're thinking along those same thoughts. That's powerful. Go ahead.

[00:20:27] Shant: Yeah, so it's, sales, operations, marketing, branding, client retention, customer service or customer fulfillment. and you can go on and on and on.

[00:20:36] Shant: But those are generally, you know,the biggest ones. And so I'm constantly asking myself, am I working on those every single week? Right. Am I doing something that's improving the systems and processes on all those things? The answer is yes, because like we're having the same meetings every single week where we have clear goals and all those different departments and we're moving the needle forward.

[00:21:00] Shant: And again, it's not, it's, it's certainly not just me. It's, it's probably the least me, right? Like I'm, I'm the vision and the direction, but there's people actually executing. That are actually doing they love to do and what they're, they're in the right, right person, the right seats, and they're happy working on that part of the business.

[00:21:20] Shant: So that's going to go a lot further than somebody like myself, who's going to be, be involved in a part of the business that I know needs to improve, but like it's not my highest and best use. So it's a really, really, impactful and it's something, if you heard me talk five or six years ago, I was talking about those same five or six departments, I keep it very, very simple.

[00:21:39] Shant: And we constantly moving those, and that, and that's a business, right? unfortunately, most people, one, don't, they don't have the structure. And then once they have it, they don't stick to it. We're very religious about sticking to it. And, and honestly, that's, that was hard for me at the very beginning.

[00:21:52] Shant: I'm one of those people that like, my initial thought was like, I just want to go, go, go, go. Like I can work and sell and all that kind of stuff. It took a lot of discipline to trust the process and, and stick to it and work. And then you start seeing, it's amazing. Like, when you write stuff down and come up with goals, like how fast you start accomplishing them.

[00:22:09] Shant: Even though sometimes you don't even realize it. Then you look back at the year or the quarter and you're like, holy cow, look what we just did. It's really powerful. And it feels good too, because sometimes you can be accomplishing a lot of stuff and not realize what you've done and kind of feel empty inside.

[00:22:21] Shant: Right? so being able to kind of measure it as well and, and verify it is a very, very fulfilling. How

[00:22:29] Suneet: do you, being that you work with coaches and you guys adopt DOS at a very high level, sometimes at your team, how about the leaders within your organization? How do you make sure that they're getting consistent training and that they are working on their own professional development?

[00:22:48] Suneet: Something I've heard John say and probably Nick and all my smart friends say is, you have to be empowering people. The leaders within your org. So how do you do that?

[00:22:57] Shant: Yeah. So, a couple of different ways,we'll have, I would constantly have one to ones with the team leaders, right.

[00:23:04] Shant: To figure out one where, you know, so we have our leadership meeting every single week where we're talking like actually actions with that, that we're trying to accomplish in our metrics and accountability in the rocks. But then separately one on one a meeting with, my,team leaders, I'm very much in to empowering them to do their job and roll with their ideas until they don't work.

[00:23:26] Shant: Right. Like I'm not one of those people that's going to micromanage them and say I trust that if I've done a good job hiring that I'm going to let them make their big decisions, small decisions, all that kind of stuff until roadblock where they come to be and ask for help. And then I can usually kind of help them figure it out.

[00:23:40] Shant: I'm also big in that we're constantly. We're, we're big, big, big into reading. if you ask John, like John suggests the book to me. I'm reading it, then I'm giving it out to my whole team reading it, we're discussing it,and, and that stuff works, I mean, I know it sounds so simple, but you get some, if you're constantly reading two or three business books every single, year and, ideating on them and implementing, that's where the development comes from, it comes from getting coached, it comes from reading, it comes from listening to really great people.

[00:24:08] Shant: Powerful podcasts and webinars and that kind of stuff. It doesn't just come like from doing work all day, right? It's you got to kind of sit back, ideate, and then implement. So I'm just constantly challenging them to get better and to, and to do more. And I think they love that. That's super, super big time, retention on our leadership team over the course of the years.

[00:24:26] Shant: and it's because I think people have left seeing the growth. And honestly, this past year. So this last 18 months, 19 months in real estate, but also in the mortgage business has been really hard. It's the first time we've had to actually scale our team back and that's not fun, and we've gotten through it together by constant communication.

[00:24:41] Shant: Those systems of communication have been both one on one and as a team have been important. We've never stopped recognizing and rewarding both our team leaders and also, the team members throughout that time. Never stopped holding everybody accountable. I think being that guidance or,I know John likes to say, be in the lighthouse Right.

[00:24:58] Shant: It's very, very important times like this because people want to know where they're going and how to get there. and I think I've been that person. But when you have,

[00:25:09] Nick: when you have metrics based on sales only, they will be rewarded only when their sales are going up and when their sales go down, they question everything.

[00:25:21] Nick: And so Shannon, what I'm hearing from you is you, when you're investing in people's growth in sales, but also in personal development. Books, leadership. They can see metrics in intrinsically going up and they're going to stay even when the sales are down. And it looks,considering you're in mortgage and you went from 2.

[00:25:41] Nick: 2 billion to 600 million, right? Like how is that was keeping you on course is that you're still progressing as a human being. A hundred percent.

[00:25:50] Shant: That's, that's

[00:25:50] Nick: actually,

[00:25:51] Shant: It's a great, great way you framed it and yes, 100 percent cause like I haven't, I know that I, when I trust that I'm doing the right things because like purely just like the effort is there, the, we're working on the business, we're coming up with ideas, we're observing the market and making changes to it, talking to our partners and clients to see what they need.

[00:26:12] Shant: but yeah, we're like all in, like I have people, I, I haven't slowed down anything in terms of The coaching that I'm getting, I haven't slowed down the coaching that I'm providing to my team. if anything, we've ramped that up, we've had more people kind of coming in and, and, and talking. We've ramped up our individual training sessions that, we talk about.

[00:26:28] Shant: So we haven't once stopped focusing on improving all the efficiencies and systems and processes. obviously the outcome is not as high. As a, I want it to be, but I also measure myself against the rest of the industry and know that we're doing all the right things. If our margin, our market share is increasing, versus where everybody's at, like we're actually, our, our application count, lead flow,all that kind of stuff, fundings are all like eating the market in terms of,how much all that stuff's down.

[00:26:57] Shant: So you have to know there's a part of it, again, What I said at the beginning of this, I'm not getting, I'm not paying attention to the noise. I'm educating myself in terms of what's going on, but I don't listen to all the stuff about all the challenges in the sense of like just the noise.

[00:27:10] Shant: Like I don't get, I've eliminated negative people from my life. I will tell you that's one of the biggest things I've done is like people that just want to have conversations about how difficult everything is. Like I'm not having those kinds of calls. and I'm just focused on like everything that we need to do, right now in order to keep winning.

[00:27:25] Shant: And because I do know whether you're in real estate. Whether you're a mortgage, whatever you do, whoever, does a really great job. Like thriving right now is really, really going to thrive like 10 X over the course of the next 12, 24, 36 months.

[00:27:39] Nick: I want to talk about a couple of things in Sydney.

[00:27:42] Nick: One is talent attraction. is it the same agent attraction for us and loan officer attraction? Hello. Attraction. Is that different? Do you, do you, or is it Sydney saying no, he says, no,

[00:27:55] Suneet: not the

[00:27:57] Nick: same. And then number two, where are the wins coming from right now?

[00:28:02] Shant: Yeah. So, I'm going to have you clarify the first question, in a second.

[00:28:05] Shant: The second question, the wins are coming on is getting into we've really separated ourselves from being like the person that, will work with your team, not only deliver a great client experience to help you win, win offers, set your clients apart in multiple offer situations, do all this little stuff that like is a valuable part of the real estate team.

[00:28:23] Shant: In order to help help buyers win, right? We don't work with sellers right now on the mortgage side. but then I I'll come into your office and I will share my entire playbook in terms of like how I'm building my team. all the things that we're doing, like stuff we're talking about today, and also like deep education in terms of what's going on in the marketplace, like really add value in terms of data, information, metrics, and opportunity, right?

[00:28:47] Shant: what I find is that Real estate teams, especially in brokerages, sometimes they have team meetings. They some, sometimes they don't a lot of times, like nobody even knows what to talk about. Right. Whereas like they bring me in and I'm like an hour of like really jam packed information that's going to have their agents like focused on the opportunity, motivated, energized.

[00:29:07] Shant: And that's invaluable. when I first used to do this stuff, I'd be calling people, Hey, can I get into your team meetings? And they're still obviously A little bit of that, but also what's happening now is like the teams that we've done it with keep calling us to ask us back in the other people that are observing what we're doing.

[00:29:21] Shant: We're asking us to come in. We're getting a lot of phone calls and be like, Hey, we're having a team meeting, we're having a brokerage, we're having a sales rally. Can you come in and be one of the speakers? And that immediately sets me up. Is like a person, one that's interesting, valuable, trusted, respected, and I don't want to say in a position of authority, cause but it's like a broker owner or really successful person's like trusting me with your team.

[00:29:43] Shant: And obviously that's something I'm super grateful for, but it's just, it, it helps build rapport, immediately. And that's been huge for me.

[00:29:50] Suneet: And so Nick's first question, part of the verification and the one that I have a strong opinion on. My, myself is, do you think, so Nick called it a fancy name, talents acquisition.

[00:30:05] Suneet: I'm just going to call it frigging recruiting. Okay. How is recruiting going for Ella and do you think is different than recruiting or agents for an organization?

[00:30:18] Shant: Yeah. So, so on my team, we like, as we've been scaling back, like we haven't really been recruiting right within the company. we are recruiting.

[00:30:27] Shant: However, we're, we've gotten a lot smarter about recruiting. Cause what's happened in this last year, and a half especially is, everybody's numbers were amazing before, right. It was very transactional. there was a lot of people that could be successful before. Just all you have to be in the mortgage business in 2020 even early 22 is just available now.

[00:30:49] Shant: Everybody's available. Right. So then it's so it's not based on availability anymore. Right. It's based on who's got the strongest relationships, especially on the purchase side of the business. And it's amazing how many people flushed out of the business that are doing like almost no loans. And mortgage companies don't really want people that are doing like zero to one to two loans a month.

[00:31:10] Shant: there's just not enough. I don't want to say don't want, but there's not as, you know,like the system's way more efficient. Like the capability that we have in terms of turning on business,we're properly staffed. so we don't need like a bunch of people that are going to.

[00:31:23] Shant: Do one loan a month or no loan some months. So, I think everybody's trying to figure out who's real and who's capable of this market. So, and there's a lot of people that aren't moving as much right now, but I honestly don't like a big portion of my business is not on the recruiting side.

[00:31:38] Shant: we, whenever I bring somebody on here at guaranteed rate, generally speaking, when I'm involved, it's a really, really big recruit, that has an established business. And is looking to take their business to the next level. And that's gone really well. Like I've brought in a bunch of people, and have helped them two, three, four or five X their business by implementing all the stuff we were just talking about, like system, like they're like really great salespeople with a team, but not structure.

[00:32:02] Shant: And I was able to kind of really help them show we did in a lot of cases, support them ourselves and help them grow. So, the recruiting piece is not, is, not something that's going Super, super odd on my end right now, but, it's also because that's not where my focus is.

[00:32:17] Suneet: Yeah. Yeah. So, in the, the mortgage industry and somebody who's as leveraged as you with the structure and organization, you can bring on an LOA instead of a loan officer and get more, more upside out of that, right?

[00:32:31] Shant: A hundred percent. Yeah. Like I could literally just go I'm, I want anything I can do to free up my time to go out and do. More business development myself, more, more like my recruiting, I'm recruiting real estate agents, right? Like I want more real estate agents that are setting me business. that's where my recruiter, that's when I get excited about like recruiting or talent acquisition, like I want to collect as many amazing real estate partners as possible.

[00:32:57] Shant: And that's where I'm trying to focus my time instead of. Focus on going on the internal loan options side on my end. We have plenty of capacity to handle way more business internally. So I just, I'm, I'm pretty happy with where my staff is right now.

[00:33:08] Nick: Well, even with that question, there was lots of nuggets in your answer to say that it's not the same.

[00:33:14] Nick: Number one, I never heard it this way in 2021, even parts of 2022, maybe 2020, 2021. Being available was in demand because everyone was busy, right? So your greatest ability was your availability. That's gone. And you just said, I mean, everyone's available. Now let's push the premium on what you said. Are you real and capable?

[00:33:40] Nick: Are you really a real estate agent or just license? Are you really a loan officer or just licensed capable?

[00:33:49] Shant: Well, what's happening now, the biggest thing in our business right now, in my opinion. So, as rates have gone up, home prices have gone up, everybody's focused on price, right? first, the first question everybody calls when they ask a loan officer is what's my rate?

[00:34:00] Shant: What's my rate? it's literally, it's I need a pre approval. What's my rate? It's two different things, but that's just everybody starts every email with I'm shopping around, right? But that's it. That's every single email. Think about some of the emails you guys have cc'd on, right?

[00:34:12] Shant: So, it's like everybody wants to take it about price down to an eighth. In rate and everybody can fight over rate. Right. Whereas we're really trying to, and we know whether it's in real estate and it's happening in your business. Cause with all this stuff going on with the court case, right.

[00:34:28] Shant: Like we need to show our value more than ever is real estate professionals, whether you're in mortgage or whether you're in real estate, cause the industry or the world is trying to commoditize us, right. They're trying to make it only about price. Right. And that's not going to work for anybody.

[00:34:44] Shant: there's no business that really. And works when it's all about price and it's a price driven process, like you have to separate yourself and you have to be able to communicate your value anytime, whether you're, in the phone, in person, in front of a group, you've got to have that value and you've got to live and breathe it in your team and your system's got to live and breathe that value creation.

[00:35:01] Shant: And I think that's probably more important right now. I know that's what we've been focused on our business and with everything going on in the real estate industry. with this whole buyer agent case, everything, like you got to really be able to communicate your value more than ever.

[00:35:13] Shant: If you're going to really survive and thrive in this market, in my opinion.

[00:35:16] Suneet: Yeah. Love that. And so resonating with me, right? So good. So let's get into some practical questions for our viewers and listeners that we have people who are just starting out or have aspirations to start out and whether they want a big mortgage business or a big real estate team or brokerage.

[00:35:39] Suneet: What's your advice to our new aspiring leaders in the real estate industry?

[00:35:48] Shant: So, look, I think, again, I mean, I think one is, if I was to start all over again, I would probably hitch my wagons to somebody. I didn't have a choice to kind of hitch on to somebody based on the way I started in 2008 because, nobody was hiring a brand new loan officer new to the business that didn't know anything, right?

[00:36:08] Shant: So like I wish I could have joined a team frankly or hired a coach or a mentor right off the bat But I also didn't have any money and I didn't know if my business is gonna survive So probably like outside of what I said at the beginning in terms of working hard, you know Having a mentor a coach somebody that's going to teach you The basics, somebody that's going to teach you the activities and the action, somebody that's going to kind of help you guide you through your mindset.

[00:36:30] Shant: So I think having, identifying that circle of people that are like, you're almost board of directors, whether it's paid or unpaid, I think is important. The effort and activity part of just being, I'm not a big believer when you first started out in entrepreneurship, that you're going to have balance.

[00:36:42] Shant: So be prepared to be unbalanced for a very, very long time. I think that's part of it. And then understand. what you have to do and what you have to learn and how you have to educate yourself to be able to be a pro. I think I did that very much because I didn't have a choice. Like our whole business went from being no doc.

[00:36:59] Shant: You don't really have to do anything. From 2002 to 2008, like it was like literally no income verification, no asset verification, fast and easy over a seven 20 and you're good. Yeah. All day long pushing out all day long without going away. Yeah. And and so like then, so I had to read all the guidelines, know all the different documentation methods, how to write up loans, how to read credit reports, income docs.

[00:37:23] Shant: so I became a pro and same thing in real estate. You need to be able to talk your market. You need to be able to understand how to list a property, how to represent a buyer, how to negotiate deals, how to identify value and property, or when not to, I think you have to really just immerse yourself in that education of being an expert in your field.

[00:37:43] Shant: so I think that's just as important. A lot of people just try to make the calls and then they get in front of somebody. I can't really talk the talk, you have to spend some time and a lot of time, like really just, and now it's so much easier. Like the cool part is, is that there's so much more access to information there was 15 years ago, whether it be video through platform, like it's the content is like before it was just like reading or Googling.

[00:38:05] Shant: Right. And even that was like very early on in terms of how, how deep you could go. Now you can get super deep without in a very, very short amount of time because the, the content is like endless. So I think those are some of the things that I would, and then just, I've learned in my life that if you master,we talked about activities and actions a lot.

[00:38:27] Shant: It's really hard to implement 10 really amazing things all at once, but it's really easy to get good at one or two and then just keep stacking on top of it. but you know, so I think I, I, knowing from your coaches and mentors in your business, what the activities and actions are, are they in a way, and they just constantly, as you, as you start nailing them, just keep adding more, cause then you won't get stale either.

[00:38:52] Shant: I love that. You

[00:38:53] Suneet: just directly quoted, I think number two from Brian Tracy, the principles of the belt main millionaires. Is it number two or number one?I should know this, but it's be an expert in your field. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:39:13] Nick: And when I hear you say being an expert, you get, there's the expert of sales, real estate agent, loan officer, human relationships, the process.

[00:39:22] Nick: And then there's this point in your career where you're, you become an expert and now you want to build a team. So now you got to be a professional team leader, right? How does, how do you make that assumption? How do you ascend from. Badass, 60 sales a year, your topic, top of your MLS, top 22 team leader speaking from

[00:39:45] Shant: experience, and having, had some success and obviously, had a bunch of failures as well.

[00:39:50] Shant: which I learned more from those, unfortunately, or fortunately, I guess, cause they're all,the biggest thing I learned was hire the opposite of yourself, right? So like figure out all the stuff that you you're not great at or hate to do Or you're not good at or don't like to do and hire people there's people out there that love that part of the job that love that and likewhereas I used to try to always, initially I'd try to be off, I could just have another one of myself.

[00:40:17] Shant: Right. And that, that doesn't work. Right. so hire the opposite. So like I've identified, what I love to do and what I'm great at, what I like to do and what I'm good at, what I don't like to do and what I'm not good at and what I hate to do and what I'm terrible at. And I always try to hire the stuff furthest from my highest and best use first and fill those positions with people that are like pros at all that stuff.

[00:40:40] Shant: And then it's amazing how much bandwidth you have. Like the biggest, I've said this at mortgage conferences, many times. The biggest badge of honor that we hold is I'm a control freak. Like people say it, it's a good thing. I'm a control freak. People need me. Like they want me to do it. Like I'm just, it's the dumbest thing ever.

[00:40:57] Shant: Right. Like having a control freak mentality and kind of convincing yourself that that's what you are, you you're creating a ceiling for yourself. Right. I, there's nothing that I don't do anymore that I miss. And I don't know, like if somebody, if one of my team members left, like obviously in the middle of it, I'd jump in, but fortunately I have back bandwidth and backfill for all that stuff.

[00:41:18] Shant: And if I had to do something in the short term, of course I would, but I'd immediately hire some, some of the stuff that I've given up that I've hired with really amazing people. I'm not going back to that. And on top of that, my client experience and my partner experience is so much better. Because every single time they talk to somebody on my team, whether it's me or somebody else, they're talking to somebody who really enjoys what they're doing and are an expert at, or at least are good at it, right?

[00:41:42] Shant: And so it just amplifies the level of service that my partners are getting and my clients are getting. The client experience.

[00:41:50] Suneet: That is not said enough inside of the real estate world. It's not. Instead, it's so many times. The mission brought city,

[00:41:59] Nick: man. Yeah. And hold and holding on to this. I'm a perfectionist.

[00:42:06] Nick: No one can do it better than me. Mentality is actually limiting your client experience. Potential. It's

[00:42:13] Suneet: limiting everything. It limits

[00:42:16] Nick: everything.

[00:42:17] Suneet: Hardest part for salespeople going into leadership. That's always the hardest, hardest part.

[00:42:23] Shant: And you know what's, you know what the client experience, obviously like once your client experience nails it, that's when the business grows.

[00:42:28] Shant: Because now all the sales activity And the business development branding is not all on you and how much you spend. Literally, your clients are out there doing it for you for free. it's not free, right? Because we, we put the systems in place to do it. But I have now a hundred thousand previous clients in my database.

[00:42:44] Shant: I have, we're closing thousands of loans a year and we're really focused. We truly are focused on that client experience every single time, whether it's a lead, an introduction, a meeting with a person, or a loan in process. And You nailed that over and over and over again. It's amazing how fast it grows and the phones ring and now with social media and like how you can amplify that.

[00:43:04] Shant: It's If you nail that client experience and talk about it and actually just do it. It's amazing. how fast it can grow

[00:43:11] Nick: your business for you. I think someone that's done as a hundred thousand people in their database, thousands of loan loans a year that also said client retention is a big part, a big bucket, what are your tips for client retention?

[00:43:26] Nick: Because obviously client retention is to you, maybe a refi or another purchase or a referral somewhere. What are the like 10. Technique wise or tactics that real team leaders can use right now.

[00:43:40] Shant: Yeah. One thing. So one thing I always talk to my team about is you do one, one transaction for somebody, you risk just being just that, just a transaction.

[00:43:48] Shant: Whereas if you do two, three or four, like every single one you do on top of that, you become their person, right. And you become their people's person, right. Like they're, and so we do a really good job of, making sure that once we have somebody's contact information, once we've done business We've got really great email campaigns.

[00:44:04] Shant: We've got great social media campaigns, getting them engaged with our social media, right away amongst all the different channels, we've got text campaigns, calling them, to do annual reviews with them. We're mailing them. I don't know which way is going to most resonate with each individual client.

[00:44:21] Shant: I just know that if I hit them every single way, like when I'm meeting, when I'm seeing my clients out. they're always like, Oh, I feel like every time I open my mail or my email or my social media, you're there like, and they're like, I was at the Celtics game on Friday night. I had seven different people approach me either be like, Hey, you're, you help me with my mortgage.

[00:44:38] Shant: Cause we don't meet a lot of people face to face or, or one guy was reciting the most recent video I did. And he was a previous client. I was so, grateful. And I was like, yeah, I'm glad like that stuff's resonating. It was very, it was just a great moment. Yeah. and, so it's but that's what you have to do because like people got so much information coming at them every single day.

[00:44:55] Shant: They're busy with their lives that like, it's our job to stay in front of them. and again, same deal. Then you become, every single day I'm getting referrals. My, my, my biggest, outside of realtors, my previous client database has now surpassed that for my largest lead source. And that took, that took, a long time.

[00:45:13] Suneet: That's huge.

[00:45:15] Nick: I don't know. Sonny, I know Sonny thinks this way as a team leader, broker, auditor, it's your job to own the client retention experience in terms of delivering that email, delivering, being the voice or the thought leader on social media. I'm hearing. You're doing those videos, you're actually doing the videos.

[00:45:33] Nick: Sunit talks about this all the time. Sunit owns that experience and on the videos. Now we can easily just try to delegate it and tell our agents to do it or tell our people to do it. And maybe you do teach them social media techniques. It's

[00:45:49] Shant: mostly me. yeah, it's mostly

[00:45:51] Nick: me. You own that. You own the marketing piece.

[00:45:55] Shant: Yeah. I love it. I like it. I think it's important. It's one of those high value activities. I'm the brand, so and, and I'm, it's, it's fun for me. it's not something that was fun for me initially. I actually didn't like it at all, but it's a challenge for me, that I'm just, I'm like always just trying to get better at, learn and hang around

[00:46:12] Nick: Sheplack.

[00:46:14] Nick: you're, you're bound to get into some marketing and I want to learn how

[00:46:17] Shant: to write like he writes him. He does a really amazing job. Like I, I can't. I actually. I'm getting your emails now too. I signed up a couple of weeks ago, and, yeah, and, so I get them. I think I've gotten, I've gotten one almost every single day, man.

[00:46:29] Shant: I think, I'm like, I'm trying to get better at, my, my next, like I'm, I'm getting more comfortable on video. Just try to get better at writing, whether it's on social or an email format. Cause what you guys are doing is really powerful. It works. I read all of them. So I'm interested in their engaging.

[00:46:43] Shant: Cool, man. That means

[00:46:44] Nick: a lot. I've been getting them too. Yeah, but you have to have, you have to remember your deliver, your deliverability is way up. I, I said to you

[00:46:54] Suneet: that we're averaging over 50 percent on those, which took a long time and a lot of money. Yes.

[00:47:01] Nick: And he hired an email coach talking about coaches.

[00:47:04] Nick: We have coaches per coaches for everything.

[00:47:06] Suneet: That's awesome. And the email coach is top. Yeah. So it's great. And that was something that was important to me because I want to sell more and have more, have more impact.

[00:47:16] Nick: But it also goes to the principle of like you, your retention, your client retention is.

[00:47:21] Nick: You're going to do direct mail. You do social media. You do emails. You do text. You do phone because you don't know what's going to resonate with your person. You said that. I don't know how it's going to resonate. And so the same thing with video and emails or writing. Some people like to read.

[00:47:34] Shant: Yeah.

[00:47:35] Nick: Some people like video and they're not always the same person.

[00:47:40] Suneet: No. You have to nail every modality in your market, right? Just like us building this. Recording this podcast that was put out on audio that we'll put out on video. We'll do short form We'll take you listen to bits for this. it's part of the marketing. So dude, you are a smart guy shot like Wow, dude, I had no idea from talking to you while I had three pieces of raw fish and At the aria las vegas.

[00:48:07] Suneet: That was my lunch and breakfast meeting you now, man. I'm glad to have you on. If somebody wants to reach out to you, give you some business, learn from you, see what a good steakhouse is in Boston. I don't know how to reach out to that last week because I want to go to Boston.

[00:48:25] Shant: I can help you with all those things actually.

[00:48:28] Shant: so, you can reach out to me direct email at shots at rate. com or on my Instagram at shot.which is, yeah, my first and last name.

[00:48:37] Suneet: Why don't you go ahead and spell it out so everyone can go to Instagram right now and give you a follow up.

[00:48:43] Shant: Yeah, so at S H A N T B A N O S I A N.

[00:48:50] Suneet: Dude, this was awesome.

[00:48:51] Nick: Yeah, it was very, very awesome. You got this in leadership. Modality is, or, or avatar, you're, you're very composed you, you stay at a level of intensity, but calmness that resonates with me. And I see why people want to work with you because no matter what's happening, I'm pretty sure Sean is going to be level added clear decision making and he's taking action.

[00:49:19] Nick: A

[00:49:20] Shant: hundred percent. I, I agree. And, there's been a lot of work that's gone into that, man. You don't grow up like that in your twenties,level added in com all the time. But I put in a lot of work, both mentally, physically, spiritually, emotionally. Like I take leadership, like both to my team or, or to my team, to my clients, to my partners, like very, very seriously.

[00:49:38] Shant: So I'm constantly trying to be the best version of myself. both at home and at work so that way,that energy is a 10 and, it makes a big difference. But I've learned a lot in that journey over the course of years. Not anywhere close to where I want to be. I'm going to keep working.

[00:49:53] Suneet: Yeah.

[00:49:53] Suneet: And it tells me that you're going to get exactly what

[00:49:59] Nick: well, I really appreciate you. If you guys like this podcast, like subscribe, comment, share this one with a loan officer or mortgage broker in your marketplace that you want to do business with and build a relationship with. And I think they'll get a lot out of it.

[00:50:12] Nick: How could they not? They're listening to the number one loan officer in the nation.