Ep. 46 | Up 20% In A Down Market | with Rima Rafeh

[00:00:00] John: The next episode of the Customer Acquisition Show from tier 11. I'm Tom Meredith VP of Marketing, and today I am joined with Kobe Topaz, our Director of Performance, and Jonathan Floral, who is one of our senior media buyers. And this recurring episode we'll be talking about what's working now in meta, generally all social advertising platforms.

[00:00:19] John: Welcome. Hello. Thanks for having me guys. Uh, So yeah, what's working in meta these days? I'm seeing some success going back to like old tactics. For example, using some lifetime budgets and some e-commerce clients that I'm working with. we've noticed that during there's certain lows in sales during the day, and it typically is around one to like 5:00 PM Hours Eastern time, but during the hours of the individuals we're targeting. And so we started testing some lifetime budgets with our best performing audiences. So kind of horizontally scaling and using what has been working, but trying it in this lifetime budget scenario where we have it scheduled and it's actually doing very well early on.

[00:00:56] John: So we're starting to expand the use of that, and hopefully it'll continue. I know in the. In order to continue seeing the better performance, we would typically duplicate the campaign and start it over. But with it being a new old test again, you know, we may try just editing it and expanding the end date and the actual budget and see how that goes.

[00:01:14] John: So for an amateur media buyer like myself, how would you simplify what I could do in my accounts in terms of that particular tactic? Yeah. So in order to set it up, it basically is just at the ad level selecting. Really the key is selecting at the campaign level, the lifetime budget feature.

[00:01:30] John: Okay. Instead of daily. And then there at the campaign level, also expanding the options to then also select running on a schedule. Nice. And then once you've done that, you go into the ad set level and you'll have those options available to actually set your end date and your actual scheduled hours.

[00:01:45] John: Do you have like a best practice as far as like how long or how much I should be deciding for my lifetime budget? You know, I typically will depending on obviously the budget and the account. Obviously we wanna generate a certain number of conversions to be able to get through learning.

[00:01:58] John: So obviously I'll keep that in mind in terms of the existing CPAs and, to try to get at least, to start at least like five. The cpa per day. And then to make it easy, I'll do it in 10 day intervals, 10 or 20 day intervals, just to make it easy to calculate the math for the lifetime budget and then when expanding it.

[00:02:14] John: How about you, Kobe? What would your typical be for that? Yeah, I would use it like at least five X or the target cpa, and now just set the lifetime budget at least 30 days in advance. I mean, the outfit will go for at least 30. . And for me personally, when we were trying to scale those, every time we tweaked the date or our budget, it failed.

[00:02:35] John: if you are seeing success doing that, then I mean, yeah, let's do it. It's important because like if we're getting used to doing the same thing over and over or, or we didn't work before that's kind just a mindset to fail. So now that you're testing it, and you're doing the opposite and it's working for you, alright, that's another example.

[00:02:52] John: That's true. Yeah, that's a good point. Definitely from a media buying perspective, it's that not necess, you know, always going back to different tactics that you tried before. certainly things change over time and also of course every business and particular offer is different too. Yep. You Kobe.

[00:03:07] John: What's working? What do you see working these days in social Advertis? . One of the things that one of our media buyers tested the mail, he actually tested running guards without a URL in the art copy. So he had one test with TCO and has that had URLs.

[00:03:22] John: And then the second split test with ads, sorry, second asset without any URL in the. he let run it in the ads without the URL worked better. I think it's because it looks more native to the user. So maybe that could be one of the reasons, or it could be just because it's great media bio, so you never know well, that's probably part of it.

[00:03:40] John: Do you think having a URL in the ad copy and a CTA button like gives too many options and people just have a hard time deciding? I would say it depends on a lot of people and how they behave. For me personally, I really like to keep URL and call to action every ad. Sometimes I will test running an app without a call to action on it to see, because some audiences do respond differently, but like URL on the ad copy, for me it was a must, but after seeing the meals test, I'm reconsidering it.

[00:04:10] John: So you mentioned that you think it looks more native. I know we've been on this like native advertising train for a long time. Are you guys still seeing that more native looking ads are outperforming more brand or polished ads? Yeah, for my end collage images are still working well and I'm talking about simple images of just customers or that's just the brand, different products.

[00:04:31] John: So it looks really native. You wouldn't think that the collage even will have to be so professional looking if you just use paint or Canva to set it up really quick and it's like, it's really easy. You don't have to be really sophisticated and just this native looking type of ads working well still.

[00:04:47] John: Yeah. when the creative team's creating these collages, I know we're keeping them simple. How much thought is going into the images selected? Is it just putting it all up there or are we trying to cover like the whole buying journey or levels of customer awareness in there?

[00:05:01] John: I would say the biggest thing that we're focusing is just to reflect the avatar. So it'll show customers who have similar, to our target demographic or just images that really show what the customer is interested about. We're not overthinking it, Just make it look native.

[00:05:16] John: Makes sense for sure. I've seen some videos that are successful that, again, native in the way that it almost looks like made to look like the platform itself, be it Instagram or Facebook stories, for example. But of course you have to be cognizant of the fact that those ads can get disapproved.

[00:05:30] John: If it looks a little too much like the application or if there's a button that you're trying to mimic, they'll definitely disapprove those. But otherwise, I've definitely seen some success. Those there where other advertisers I've actually seen where you're going through the feed and you see like, it's like a 3D image coming out of an actual feed post for example.

[00:05:46] John: So it looks like a post, but then it's a T-Rex coming out of it. Like that kind of idea. Mm-hmm. . walk that fine line of like mimicking the interface but not. Infringing on getting a meta IP . We don't wanna get sucked. Yeah. one thing that I've been seeing that's been, and, it's, for me, it's fairly new. I don't know how old it is, but like the expanded reach at the custom audience level. I don't see it available in all my accounts yet, but essentially it's the ability for Facebook to reach outside of your audience when they will find conversions at a lower cost.

[00:06:14] John: And that feature's been available for some time at the interest targeting level. But now that has moved over to the ability to do that at the custom audience level. So if you've got look alike or even a retargeting audience you can then expand it. I haven't necessarily used it with retargeting of course, because, with retargeting we're trying to reach a specific audience, very specifically, right.

[00:06:32] John: So I haven't tried to do it there, although, who knows, it may actually drive lower costs there too. Of course, in general, for that, But I'm hopeful for that particular feature just because I know that when the expanded audience at the interest level was first released, I definitely saw a lot of success with it.

[00:06:47] John: And now it's basically almost in a lot of counts by default, where you don't even have to select it.

[00:06:53] John: staying on that, the idea there a little bit of the audience You guys seeing more success with Going broad or more interest or custom, like targeting Right now, I've seen interest in board audiences working. Well look alike on some accounts. It depends, but it's like generally really interest, like strong interest based on research and board if your account has a lot of data.

[00:07:12] John: Yep. That's what's. Definitely, and I think that's a good point. It's like, if you know who your target audience is, and those boil down to usually some very specific interests and you know what they are at this point. If you've run ads for some time, really your focus is on that audience.

[00:07:25] John: And then like, to your point outside of that, it's creating another very broad audience, completely open practic. Right. That then allows you to then be able to get insights that maybe you don't have from the knowledge that you do right now from your existing audience, and then of course your lookalikes and that.

[00:07:39] John: Down to the account level is always gonna be more successful if you have more events. So if you're an individual that has conversion, APIs set up with Facebook and you're sending them offline events, you're tracking a number of different conversions like leads and purchases, all that's gonna help to, I think, allow that lookalike to perform a lot better.

[00:07:57] John: Of course.

[00:07:58] John: So if I were to summarize again as my amateur media buyer, if I don't have a lot of data coming in, but I know who my customer is, I should be using interest targeting. But if I am getting a lot of data coming in, a lot of conversions, I'm better off going more broad and letting the algorithm or machine learning go find me all my customers.

[00:08:16] John: definitely. And in a case, if you don't have a lot of conversion events, then I would do something like doing a look like of visitors. Right. Just trying to get whatever source might have the most individuals, based on your business and situation. And we may run broad and interest simultaneously.

[00:08:29] John: Right. So yeah, I wouldn't say it's like either this all that. run them s. what other uh, things are working now? I would say one thing instant experience ads are working well now with instant experience. for those who don't know what it is, it's basically when you click on an ad inside of Facebook, it opens up like a Linux page inside of the other platform.

[00:08:52] John: So inside of that instant experience, you can show your catalog, you can add a video, you can add images, you can add text, so you can use that also to reframe your audiences better. For example, if you're running ads for a customer, then their line images are horrible, they're just not converting.

[00:09:07] John: There's a lot of issues there. What you can do is with the instant experience, you can reframe the audience. If the messaging, for example, is weak on the landing page and the client is gonna have slow time to turn it around or change it, whatever, you can use the instance experience to frame the audience there.

[00:09:24] John: And then once they get the landing page, if they, well really reframe in the instance experience, they, their conversion could be higher. let's go into, like, when you say preframe, like how do we tackle, like creating an instant experience that does that? Like what are some of the thinking that goes into that?

[00:09:39] John: it all comes down to what was the previous step and what is the next step that is expected from the audience? in the previous step, we talked. They could download, for example, lead magnet or watch a certain webinar, but maybe now on the extended experience, we can add another testimonial.

[00:09:52] John: Just add more sentences that you can just strengthen the value that they'll get out of the webinar, for example. So for example, a testimonial image from one of your customers, like if an image, and then right next to the quote, and then just another couple of sentences below it just to frame more.

[00:10:08] John: Right. So if we're thinking this is just in terms of like, the awareness levels, it's really just trying to smooth out that journey and reduce the big leaps that the customer has to make from one step to the next. Like just really reduce friction. Yeah, you can reduce friction there.

[00:10:20] John: Yeah, a hundred percent. And you can also test it for eCommerce as well. Again, it acts like as a preset. for example, if you hear that the product page isn't strong enough, so you can use that instant experience. Frame the audience better. Or for example, let's say that your customer, they don't have category specific pages on the store or any, any reason or the product pages just set up there is messed up.

[00:10:41] John: You can set in the experience specific products you want to feature, so you can directly put what you wanna have there so the customer can select which products they're interested. If there are multiple products within the same category, tell me if I'm wrong, Kobe, but if you have a Facebook shop, you could complete the purchase through the incident experience also.

[00:10:58] John: Right? Going back to the shop, like the specific product in the shop. Yeah. If you have the option to check out inside of Facebook. Yeah. Also Pinterest. Are they listing this option as well? If you're using shop? Right now, unfortunately, it's only for the organic channel, which doesn't interest me that much because if I'm not gonna pay run paid ads to it, I don't care.

[00:11:17] John: But for those of you who have a strong express in Pinterest, if you are running Shopify as well, then you can integrate the two platforms together, and then people will be able to check out within p. They won't have to go through Shopify and do everything there. Everything's gonna stay within Pinterest.

[00:11:32] John: That could also reduce, the issues with conversion rate or whatever. That's kinda been promise for, I mean, basically ever since iOS 14 came out, right, where all these platforms are gonna try to handle the sale in within that. Is this like the first major step of where we're seeing success, like, I don't wanna get Apple's CEO med, but I do think Facebook are working on a really strong solution to this problem.

[00:11:56] John: Like they just started rolling back reporting features when you can compare different attribution windows, which was, it's really strong part to all the iOS 14. Like you can compare them with 70 click 28 day. And then also they're gonna be adding back the breakdown per age and gender and all that stuff.

[00:12:17] John: So I think, and again, I don't wanna make Tim Cook or I forgot his name, mad, and to some degree I do. But when I give Zach a big shout out, I do think they're working on the solution. It's like, Why should they release their features if they're not working on something bigger? And Lenon, one of our awesome growth strategies thinks the same.

[00:12:36] John: And Landon is the super smart guy. So if he thinks that he's probably right. Landon is a super smart guy and I would say Facebook, even though they're spent, they're like burning like 9 billion on the metaverse, they're still highly invested in their main money maker and that's advertising, right?

[00:12:52] John: So anything. They can do to, I mean, that's where their financial interest is. I think you're right that Zach is still focused. Steve Jobs is probably gonna hunt me in my dreams, but it is what it is. . Yeah. That's funny. I know we've Just Okay. Experiences with instant experience in the past, like is there anything that we've done differently now or is just something changed on the Facebook side where we're really seeing more success here?

[00:13:14] John: No, I think we did something really, really different. It's just, it's what we said in the beginning, just cycling back all giving them another chance maybe with a small twist. No, you can try them again and say like, for example, one of the other things that works for a couple of other accounts is you just looking historically for the last six months at ads that performed well to your best performers and just rela them on a new campaign.

[00:13:37] John: Now you can use the ads as they are with all the social proof and everything, but if you wanna take it another level, sometimes the machine, because it's already used to the ad and, and it knows that the ad started to. Maybe when you will relaunch it, it won't get the same effect. So what you can do is you can just recreate the ads from scratch and then they'll have post IDs.

[00:13:57] John: Then you can set up a split test all that with the social proof versus best performance without any social proof. And give them a go and see what happens. That makes a lot of sense. Cause we know the machine learning happens on the post ID level. So even if you're using that in new campaigns and new ad, like it's gonna bring all that with it.

[00:14:13] John: So if it has fatigued, then you don't wanna bring your fatigue with you. You might wanna try something new. Try to trick the algorithm with, Hey, here's my twin sister . Nice. How about you, Jonathan? what's working now? Well, I would consider it social media advertising also, but I don't know if you guys have ever done anything with Nextdoor ads.

[00:14:30] John: the pla I'm still fairly new to it, but it's, I was actually surprised by how advanced the actual advertising platform, isn't it? For example, you even have the ability to target household income still, like Facebook used to be able to the third party data options and.

[00:14:44] John: What's really interesting about it is that you can also do some dynamic text replacement in the ads themselves, where you can then, if you're targeting a specific neighborhood or city, you can call out that city in your ads dynamically. So you can target the whole country, but then it'll dynamically change based on where that ad is delivered.

[00:15:01] John: So that, I thought that was a pretty neat feature, and they do have, Of course, very similar campaign types for awareness, consideration, and conversions as well. So they've got their pixel, they still don't have the like an API available custom api. But besides that I'm looking forward to seeing what it can do in this particular case where I'm gonna be testing it.

[00:15:19] John: they really want to go after a homeowner audiences. So it's a really good platform for that of. Because that's another thing you can target is specifically home ownership, right? Cause they do have that information on you. Can you target like how angry your neighbors are, like their anger level?

[00:15:32] John: Cuz I feel like that's most my next door, right? Or Yeah, exactly. Or, you know, lost, pets, right? Yeah. So like, thinking through like there's next door. , how would you approach the creative for extra? Like what's the, customer looking for there? You know, the creative that we're looking at is almost like Kobe's point about being more native to the platform.

[00:15:50] John: And if you look at it in the platform itself and the way people are advertising, they're definitely not polished ads. Okay. they're just using a lot of stock. Very basic type ads, but it's because, if you look at them the way that they're displayed in the platform itself, it's almost like a display type advertising, just through the feed.

[00:16:07] John: basically, We're looking at a very simple type ads. Again, trying to speak to the avatar specifically, and maybe a small hook call to action on the ad itself. Even that This is almost going back to where Facebook didn't like text. It seems like this is a case where you could definitely run ads without text, but we're gonna be testing it with and without to see what happens.

[00:16:25] John: But you know, I think it's gonna be an interesting test. We're not gonna spend a whole lot of money there. But again, as a new potential platform, be interesting to say, are you doing the creative like nationally or regionally or even neighborhood? In this case it's gonna be regional.

[00:16:37] John: So statewide because it's a travel client specifically. And so it's almost like a day drive, So we're trying to reach a fairly local audience that, or be able to drive to the location. I was just thinking like, if you can do it by neighborhood, how do you get creative that's neighborhood specific?

[00:16:52] John: Do you just like copy paste from Google Maps? Right. Well, I think that even then it's general and then what's gonna be specific is more just the ad copy itself. like your neighbors are using the lawn care service, successfully, or your neighbors, are having great success.

[00:17:05] John: you can kind of call out that way. And then and you can target to a specific zip code so you. Potentially do a very specific copy in that way. do they have dynamic fields? Like I know for example, native ad platforms like the ? they have dynamic fields that you can add to your headline.

[00:17:22] John: So you put in, the title, you put, for example, CD State or whatever, and then it'll show like, drivers from Texas, no, this blah, blah. I don't remember if Nextdoor has that feature or they don't. That's basically what it is. Yeah. You would put in like within the copy itself, kind of like the code that will then place whatever particular variable like you're saying, like whether it's Citi or State.

[00:17:43] John: And it will dynamically change that variable based on where it's being delivered. So you can target more broadly and then use, let's say a. The state name dynamically, and then target the whole US, for example, but then call out each individual state. seeing, like ads all over the place in Israel.

[00:18:02] John: Like people in Israel are freaking out about this new anti snoring device, , like people are running these ads in tab and out brain, those native art platforms. Yep. You can clearly see that it's someone who isn't from Israel, just use Google Translate to translate their page. Mm. But it's like, it was really interesting because like, you see these headlines.

[00:18:24] John: Oh, it's like, oh, it's relevant to me. People who live in X and then they put your city name are getting huge discounts on their mortgage. Like, oh, that's really relevant to me. Yep, exactly. And obviously I think service businesses, will do very well there, right? Cause obviously, I think a lot of people go on next door to maybe find those type of reviews from their neighbors.

[00:18:42] John: Right. You know, getting your roof changed, who did your roof, that kind of thing. But, so this will still be an interesting case where it's not that and it's, more of an actual travel offer. So we'll see how that goes. Does Nextdoor tend to be expensive? It's actually low cost is what I understand.

[00:18:57] John: Very low CPMs, because I think there's issues less competitive right now, right.

[00:19:01] John: So it'll be interesting. I'll definitely keep you guys updated and let you know how that goes. That's really interesting. Are there any other like social platforms that you guys are, have run out step on recently that are intriguing to you? I would say Pinterest. You LinkedIn? Yeah. they're also stepping up their game.

[00:19:15] John: It seems they've updated their platform quite a bit recently. Now have like their own business manager, which they didn't have for a while. So now you can manage your assets, more efficiently, especially at like an agency level. But one thing that I found really interesting that they released not too long ago is document ads.

[00:19:32] John: And that is pretty unique to LinkedIn. I know Facebook used to have something like this. Basically where you can promote the direct download of an ebook, PowerPoint, an infographic, or even just a Word doc, but basically content that you can either just give away to your base or to just build awareness.

[00:19:49] John: Or you have the option to request a lead prior to getting access to that. so you can actually collect leads from it, which obviously I think is gonna be the most compelling way to use it. that's interesting cuz. The normal lead magnet would be a pdf, right? but the fact that you can do a, doc that people mm-hmm.

[00:20:05] John: could use as a template. I mean obviously you wanna trade, ideally you trade a lead for that. But thinking about what you could do branding wise and even exactly additional steps within that document, Fill all this out, but go to our website to get the final thing. Exactly. And that's the other thing is that it gives you insights as to how much the user's read from the document too.

[00:20:25] John: Oh, really? Whoa. Mm-hmm. . I think that's pretty neat. Now, LinkedIn of course, is a little bit more expensive, but it's really good for reaching those niche audiences, you know, especially b2b.

[00:20:36] John: I'm hoping to test that soon. I'd like to find a way to use that. Cause I think it's a pretty neat feature that's, you know, unique to LinkedIn right now anyway. Well, if you wanna test it, we can test it with the uh, tier 11 marketing advertising budget. Sounds good. I've got Ralph's credit card, so we can try things.

[00:20:50] John: All right. All right. There's the new tv. I've been wondering for quite some time. a new thing I wanna start testing here is like buyer sentiment score. So on, these calls, whether it's meta or social or even when we do the Google, what's working now? what do you guys feel like the buyer sentiment is right now in the marketplace?

[00:21:05] John: I think people will really take, took a lot of steps, back because of all the issues that were happening this past year. I do think that Black Friday summer money is gonna be crazy because people saved up. You know, a lot of offers that we're running are, some of them are really like luxury offers, so people right now wouldn't have the money to put on it, like they would prefer to put that on something else, which explains why the conversion drop.

[00:21:30] John: But I think that as we will get closer to Black Friday, people will start adding up and saving up money for Black Friday, cuz it's not, they know they're gonna get it out of the stuff that they want at a huge discounts. So I think this year, black Friday is gonna be really strong.

[00:21:45] John: Yeah, I would agree with you there, Kobe. I think that things were a bit tough and I would say that consumer sentiment was five or below for, September going into October. And you know, some of that is seasonality course, cuz typically from year to year, I think that there is a lull during that period because of the back to school season.

[00:22:00] John: And then, the end of the summer vacation season and going into the fall. And then does typically pick up again, of course as we get closer to the holidays and get to those, to the Black Friday and those sale events. But even just over the last week, I would say I'm seeing much better improvement in overall sales in general.

[00:22:17] John: So I would say consumer sentiment seems to be improving. It's definitely trending on the way up, I would say recently. Nice. Yeah, I've noticed more so this year than in previous years, I'm starting to get emails like prepping me for like Black Friday and like what the specific deals are. It's like almost like some of these advertisers have given up on trying to make the sale right now and just, building this much steam going into Black Friday and Cyber Monday, right?

[00:22:40] John: Yeah. And some advertise. I've already seen some Black Friday ads hit in the Facebook too.

[00:22:44] John: How early is it? It's too early. Yeah. It's like it's, not Black Friday anymore. It's like, It's just like the whole shopping season now, , have either of you accidentally left on Black Friday, cyber Monday ads year around and seen how that does? I won't comment on know

[00:22:59] John: I've never been bold enough to test it, but I've done it before where, not by like all year, but maybe where it's like a week or two past, but it's still converting, Yeah. So it's hard to shut it off cuz it still converts, but then you get to that point where then people, it just drops off completely, Yeah. But if the algorithm's doing its job, it'll turn it, it'll start, finding people again, probably this time of year. Yeah, I guess the number one rule, or our golden rule or Angie's golden rule here is something's working. Don't turn it off. No touchy. Yeah, no touchy . Where'd you live by? Yeah.

[00:23:30] John: What any other final things that are you guys are seeing working in meta and social these days? I would say one, I think not actually the one two lifestyle image. That's just an image of a person holds a book next to the beach and we will be trying to beat it for over a year and it's just not working.

[00:23:50] John: And any image that's similar to it is just crushing it. So left image is definitely give them and go. And then one tactic that works well and it's from Kyle Info Labels. So if you're running commerce ads, you can add info label into your ads. So, for example, if you're offering free shipping, you can add that and then it'll be at the, bottom of the image.

[00:24:09] John: So, for example, you can add info label for free shipping or a 30 day return. Basically, anything that you can think of, you can add it there. just make sure that you have advantage Plus make sure it, make sure it is turned off. . And then once you strike those info labels, they'll be right below your ad.

[00:24:25] John: And just preframing better and giving you better explain your offer to the customer. Maybe people won't read your entire ad copy on the ad, but once they see the image and then they see the info labels. Okay. They understand what you, what you have to say and then that could help you were saying in order to use it, you can't have advantage Plus on, you mean the budget at the budget level or the ad level. Okay. Budget ad level. Okay. are you guys seeing more success with uh, images or videos these days? Hard to say. It really depends on the account.

[00:24:55] John: Yeah. I would say the key thing is to have both. Yeah. I mean, it also depends, right? Like what's working better images or videos? what are you showing on the images and what are you showing on the videos? Are they useful, are they not? So it really depends on what the content. And I know one thing that Facebook continues to say is pushing the use of like view through campaigns and to use those in tandem with your conversion campaigns that they're seeing big lift when advertisers run video view through campaigns, along with conversion campaigns.

[00:25:26] John: So maybe, that's something that, advertisers can test as using videos for a purpose where you're actually generating those views specifically as well. Are you retargeting those view audiences? Okay. Yep. Exactly. So yeah, it's just basically to build top of funnel at very low cost. Is there a general rule of thumb for balancing the budget between like that consideration phase and the conversion phase and awareness?

[00:25:47] John: I guess? I think it depends on the customer, of course, and budget allocations available. But I would say typically like 80 20 rule is always good. Like 20% in terms of retargeting, 80% going towards new.

[00:25:57] John: I would say also for consideration, like those traffic campaign, video view campaign, I think it's really important to run them because not all people will be ready to buy right now. the conversion campaign, it's really, really competitive. And you are getting at the top of the of the audience who Facebook thinks are more likely to convert right now, right?

[00:26:17] John: Within this short time period. So that could also explain why the CPMs are higher, if you will launch, for example, the video use campaign. just a video based campaign, not a conversion campaign. Optimiz for purchase, for example. So I mean, if you have a strong. Video strategy to educate your customers, or even if you don't have video, you, just wanna get people to a lead magnet and then you nurture them through the email.

[00:26:40] John: That could help as well, because some people, they just won't be able to convert right now, wouldn't be able, wouldn't want to convert. So it's a part that you also educate them even further. I think it's one of the things that as advertisers we sometimes forget that we're also consumers and so to put yourself in that consumer mode of like, I'm not always ready to buy, but which doesn't mean I don't wanna learn more.

[00:27:00] John: So that I am prepared when I'm ready. Definitely. Great. I think people neglected this strategy, cuz I know it was really, really common a couple of years ago. I think one of the reasons why, Started moving away because just costs started to add up every year. So it's like your tolerance on, okay, I'll, have this video campaign that doesn't generate me profit, if any, because I know people are converting on the back end after like 30 days now, because the costs are so high, people are moving away from it.

[00:27:28] John: But it's definitely worth considering visiting it.

[00:27:31] John: I dunno if you guys have seen any of this, but do you tend to find that the more you run like video views, the more you actually convert on Google? Like, are those connected? It's an interesting thought though.

[00:27:42] John: I do see that on some accounts. Depends on the niche. You'll get a lot of youthful conversions on Facebook cuz people are converting on Google. Yeah, so it, we have customers that sell up to like a thousand dollars product, $2,000 product right off the bat. And if you are sending that on Facebook, it's gonna really, really help to get someone to purchase it right now.

[00:28:03] John: Right. But if you put that ad on Google for someone who's actually actively searching for it, then. Option to convert is significantly higher. So that way someone might, may see your ad on Facebook, but then convert to Google because it's just, just different mindset. But these platforms all like tie together.

[00:28:20] John: it's true. that's a benefit of like rlsa, right? Like marketing list for search ads. Like you could run, potentially get all your top of funnel awareness from Facebook at very low cost and then run a branded campaign to your retarget. So if they search for you again, obviously you're gonna then get a bid modifier and get to the top of the search results.

[00:28:39] John: So even though this is a meta focused episode, it's still always really important for all of the marketing to work together. Yes. Yeah, a hundred percent. Because you can't predict where, how customers are going to finally land in your cart. Yep. Great. Well, thank you Kobe and Jonathan.

[00:28:57] John: This was a fun episode. We'll probably do these monthly, so mine some new amazing tactics or some more new social networks to advertise on for next time. Will do like talking to you guys. Yeah, you too. Thanks a lot. And thank you. I'll see you guys later. Thank you a great day everyone.