Why Some Successful Men Still Feel Empty Inside with Cletus Coffey

Teaser [00:00:00] What happens is, at the end of the day, I don't have any frustration or pain, like I didn't do anything for me. At the end of the day, you get the kids to bed and you're like, okay, where was I in this whole picture? I got me. I took care of me. I took care of those that are important to me. I planted those seeds, so now I have the energy to focus on the kids and be there for them.

Hector Fellas, what's going on? I hope this episode finds you well, and I hope this episode leaves you better than when it found you. Today's episode is with Cletus Coffey, and he's a former professional athlete and someone who now works with guys to help them find their way. And we talk about exactly that, and really helping guys to figure out how to live with more than anything.

Hector I think a sense of purpose that fills them up. It's a great conversation. So enough from me, y'all. Let's get into today's episode with Cletus Coffey.

Hector Cletus, welcome to the Modern Masculinity Pod. Thanks for being here, man.

Cletus Hector, dude, I'm grateful for the invitation, the opportunity to join you, man.

Cletus [00:01:00] I love that you have a passion for this and provided a platform for people to learn and grow and create community. Man, thank you.

Hector You know, it's interesting that you say that, and I am opening myself to receive that because I think the passion was given to me. I'm one of the nerdy people who studied Latin in high school, and the root of passion is actually from pati, which means to suffer.

Hector They talk about the passion of the Christ, right? Like it's his suffering through which all this stuff happens. And it is through that through which I have taken this journey. I talked about it at the beginning of the show, but for months I said, no, I'm not doing that.

Hector And in my meditations and in all my things, it was like, this is the only thing to do. And so, if not just to shut my own voice in my head up, I started the show, and we're a hundred episodes in. And so I do feel compelled to help guys who are maybe a couple steps behind me on the path.

Hector [00:02:00] It has been a journey of purposeful suffering though. I think this show gives it purpose. So, anyways, take us into your world. We will talk about some of the work that you're doing and the cool stuff that you're doing with guys, but I'd love for you to take the guys into your world.

Hector Someone who's leading men and a leader of men, what sort of challenges or muck or trials or tribulations do you find yourself still working through today?

Cletus Dude, you know, the thing about it, Hector, is we're called to the work that works us. I obviously never planned to go down this route, but there was a lot of work that I needed to do on me.

Cletus [00:03:00] I started looking around and going, who else is doing this type of work? And I just couldn't find anybody to connect with, to resonate with. I read the books, I went to the seminars, I hired the coaches, and it was great stuff, great content, great people. It just was kind of tailored toward a particular person that wasn't me.

Cletus And I was thinking, well, this is good stuff. I just cannot connect with it. I cannot relate to it, and I can't be the only one. So I was called to be of service to others like me: former athlete, got married, got divorced, single father, tried relationship again. They didn't work out.

Cletus Finally looked in the mirror and said, okay, I'm the common denominator here, and I gotta do some work on me now. What the heck do I do? Because there's no playbook for that. Through the fire, through the pain of my own darkness, no one's coming to save me, so I gotta figure this out.

Hector I always sort of jab our guests on the show because I come from the personal development world where it's like the guy on stage has everything figured out. The leader has fixed all their problems.

Hector [00:04:00] I kind of evolved thinking that was the reality. And as I got to know some of these successful guys, and obviously matured in my own career and life, I realized it's rare to find a guy who has it all figured out.

Hector Even the best ones are still working through something. They're still finding their way into new challenges and opportunities.

Hector Are you the guy who's got it all figured out? Have all the boxes been checked and now you're Moses coming down from the mount bringing the tablets down? Or are there still some things that, even in this stage of your journey, you're navigating as well?

Cletus [00:05:00] You finally met the one that's got it all figured out. Great. I'm glad it took us a hundred episodes.

Cletus Damn, man. The work works you, and around every door that opens up, there's another one that’s, oh man, I definitely don't have that figured out.

Cletus Look, I come from the athletic space, so it's always about the journey, not about the end result. About the process, not perfection. But man, I still want to win. I still want to be on the mountaintop.

Cletus And latter years of life, because life has a real unique way of backhanding us, and a lot of pain and suffering through it, what I recognized was, man, that actually rang true. It really is about the process.

Cletus [00:06:00] Each door that I open up, okay, maybe I've hit the mountaintop, and then I realize, oh man, I'm not even at base camp yet. There's a whole other.

Cletus The thing about that is because I keep expanding my goals. As the door opens, I thought, oh, there's a lot more I can do here. A lot more I can create.

Cletus Versus what I run into a lot is especially in men who are like, okay, cool, I got the job, I got the wife, I got the kids, I got the picket fence. I'm cool.

Cletus And it's like, that's it. You got it all figured out in this level of, for a lot of them, mediocrity. Until they realize, wait, there's something more for me to do here.

Cletus I'm tired of just producing, performing, providing for everybody else. There is actually something I want in this life: purpose, mission, fulfillment, challenge, that comes from stepping through doors and continuing to evolve.

Hector [00:07:00] I was watching Lone Survivor with Mark Wahlberg.

Hector One of the moments in that movie: they get to the top and they're like, they had this goal where they needed to get to the summit because they get to the summit, they can get evacuated.

Hector And they get to what they thought was the summit, and they're like, fuck, it's a false summit.

Hector I was like, oh, that's such a great concept because I think there's so many times where I hit that false summit thinking that, oh, this is gonna be the place of salvation, this is gonna be the place where we rest.

Hector And then all of a sudden we realize, oh shit, we got a whole another mountain to climb.

Hector And I think there's moments like that, whether it's in business or life, relationships. It's this gut check moment.

Hector [00:08:00] And I would hope that all guys have it in them to look at that and be like, fuck, all right. Let's go. That was their thing. There was no giving up. It was like, all right, let's dig in and let's summit this next summit.

Hector It's such a great reminder to have that outlook when seemingly shit's, especially recently, where things can seem to be harder as of late. Life has gotten harder.

Hector Hopefully guys can use that as fuel as opposed to, it's just exhausting.

Cletus For some, too, it is exhausting, especially if we are operating from an old paradigm that doesn't work anymore.

Cletus It's generational. It's been passed on. This is how my parent and my guardian did, my grandfather. It's been passed down.

Cletus [00:09:00] No wonder why it's hard. One, the environment around us is changing. And number two, we haven't tapped into our own personal ecosystem.

Cletus The amount of times I connect with guys and ask them, like, who are you? Who are you really? What is the truth about who are you, not what you learned from how you grew up, not the bag of goods they've sold you.

Cletus Who are you? And once the light bulb starts to flicker, then they realize, to your point, oh man, I'm just starting. I'm just beginning. They're tapping into themselves for the very first time. Like, I'm just launching on this journey.

Hector One of the questions we bring up often for guys to be able to answer is, who are you without talking about your family or your career? Without talking about your family or your job?

Hector [00:10:00] If you can do that, now you're sort of getting to that core.

Hector My freshman year of college, the class quote was by George Bernard Shaw. Life is not about finding yourself, it's about creating yourself. I'm gonna butcher the quote, but it was something to the effect.

Hector I heard that and I was like, oh fuck yeah. Put it on a shirt. We actually did have it on a shirt.

Hector My immature synthesis of that meant like, oh, I have to go and be somebody. And that's actually what ended up happening.

Hector I took that and I was like, let me go and create this idea of me being this frat guy, or let me go and create this idea of me.

Hector Only to realize those were just more and more masks that I was putting on.

Hector Maybe I should find some time to find myself.

Hector [00:11:00] It took me 30 some odd years to actually think about what is that question? Who am I when you take away my family and when you take away my job?

Hector There is actually this person that persists underneath all of that and despite all of that. Who is that person?

Hector Maybe things happen the way that they should, but maybe if I, when I was 17 and got that shirt, maybe if I would've said, maybe I'm a little weird and nerdy and quirky.

Hector What if I started to figure out who that person was a little bit sooner?

Hector I think the challenge might be that a lot of guys are just so far deep into this societal family programming of school, job, family.

Hector [00:12:00] It was only when my relationship started to fall apart that I started to think about these questions. But all I was trying to do before was check the boxes.

Hector I'd gotten to that place where I had everything but the white picket fence, because our houses don't have fences.

Hector It was a nice house, great neighborhood, pretty spouse, kids. Everything was like. And there was this moment of like, okay, well what?

Hector That was actually the moment that things started to fall apart.

Hector Thankfully I had my answer, but I think guys don't give themselves enough time or space to actually answer those questions.

Hector And I don't know that society necessarily allows or provides that space either.

Cletus I love what you're hitting on, and I definitely wanna tap into the single fatherhood at some point in this.

Cletus I want to share something that your listeners may be able to resonate with, because this was my journey.

Cletus [00:13:00] I came from the athletic space. I was a three-sport athlete in high school, two-sport athlete in college. Two weeks after my college graduation, I was on a flight to go play football in the Canadian Football League.

Cletus I made it. I'm gonna be a pro athlete. I dreamt about this thing my entire life.

Cletus And like all athletes, generally it ends before you wanted it to, especially at that level because now we're talking about business.

Cletus I got cut for the first time in my life. I was thinking like, oh my gosh, I'm so embarrassed. I got cut.

Cletus When, in fact, this is a business. Dudes get cut. The best of the best get cut and released and traded all the time.

Cletus Anyway, had a nice little four-year run in the Canadian Football League, back here in the States, in the Arena Football League.

Cletus I break my leg basically. I'm 28 years old. My career's done. At that age, I'm an elder in American football.

Cletus [00:14:00] And then became the process of, okay, I've been this thing for 80% of my life. I'm no longer it anymore. Who am I?

Cletus Because I used to walk into the door and people would come to me. "Hey, how's the game going?" "How's the team?" "Can I get tickets?" "Autographs."

Cletus I went back and looked at my middle school yearbook. From teachers to my classmates, everyone: "See you in the pros." "Save me tickets."

Cletus I was fed this for so long, that you're this thing, and now I'm no longer it. And identity crisis began to hit.

Cletus What really hit there was I began to recognize that I was hiding. I was hiding behind Cletus the athlete.

Cletus I didn't wanna share with people what was really going on for me. It was all about me, me, me, me, me, the athlete.

Cletus Then I needed another identity to connect with.

Cletus I found entrepreneurship because it was kind of the same high, the same excitement.

Cletus And yet I was still hiding.

Cletus [00:15:00] Here's how I would hide. I would show up at a networking event. I started my first business. I got into the finance world.

Cletus I was doing commercial lending on commercial real estate projects. Started my own business, and then I jumped into the real estate boom of early '03, '04.

Cletus I jumped into personal mortgages on residential properties.

Cletus I needed clients so bad. I didn't know any entrepreneurs. I didn't know anything about business.

Cletus I'd go to networking events and I'd talk to people as if I was that athlete walking in, like, come talk to me.

Cletus I was so afraid to tell them I had no clients, that I was broke, that I had borrowed money and I was running out of it.

Cletus All I needed was partnerships, connections to clients, but I just couldn't bring myself to tell the truth.

Cletus I was hurting. I was desperate, and I needed help.

Cletus So I'd show up and go, yeah, business is great.

Cletus I would bullshit my way. "I got this cool project going on," thinking that if I talked big that they would want to do business with me.

Cletus [00:16:00] It got to the point I'd go to a networking event, I'd say my name, which it's a unique name, Cletus Coffey.

Cletus At least a dozen times, someone would come up to me afterwards and they'd go, "Okay, so what's the name? Your coffee company again?"

Cletus I'd say, "Oh no, I'm sorry. That's my name, Cletus Coffey."

Cletus Energetically, it was so off. I was in my own lies.

Cletus I bullshitted in my marriage. I didn't feel good about it.

Cletus We were not communicating well. I didn't know how to communicate. I didn't know how to ask for help.

Cletus I just wanted to be the husband and the father that I thought everyone wanted me to be.

Cletus So I kept showing up inauthentically.

Cletus The kids were cool. My marriage wasn't cool. Business wasn't cool.

Cletus I was dying inside because I wasn't showing up as me.

Cletus I wasn't showing up saying, this is what I want.

Cletus I don't want to be treated this way in a relationship.

Cletus I didn't like the business I first started anyway. I just wanted to make money. I was chasing money.

Cletus The more I showed up inauthentically, lacking vulnerability, lacking truth, the more I was distancing myself from that which I really wanted.

Cletus The whole idea that truth will set you free, I finally embodied that when I started showing up and telling the truth.

Cletus "I don't like this." "I don't like the way you treated me."

Cletus I got into another relationship that was really challenging, very toxic. I had to learn to set boundaries.

Cletus Detaching from what that person will think of me.

Cletus Going into business along things that I'm aligned with.

Cletus Especially coming from the athletic space, they always tell you, well, why don't you go be a coach?

Cletus Or they tell athletes, go get into sales, especially insurance sales.

Cletus Neither one aligned with me, and yet I did them both.

Cletus Finally putting my foot down and saying, okay, taking the time to recognize who I am, not what other people thought I should do.

Cletus Who am I?

Cletus That was a shift for me, showing up authentically as myself.

Hector It's been talked about on the show. They found that in men, and I'd imagine in most people, the two biggest wounds are abandonment and worthiness.

Hector I'm sure you can expand that to women as well.

Hector It seems a lot of guys deal with this and they deal with it in silence.

Hector [00:19:00] If you ask a guy at a surface level, do you deal with worthiness issues, they'd be like, fuck you, dude, I don't have any worthiness issues.

Hector But if you were to really get into the heart of hearts, or they were to take the time to reflect on it, you'd probably realize, oh yeah.

Hector Here's how I'm coping to make sure that I never even have to get close to feeling the pain of that wound.

Cletus Once you tap into exactly what you're saying there, I see with a lot of men the feeling of inadequacy, insecurity, scarcity.

Cletus [00:20:00] Those are some big ones that I see in all men.

Cletus The first step is awareness. Becoming aware that you have a blind spot. We all have blind spots.

Cletus Becoming aware of where that blind spot is. "Oh, I'm feeling a level of inadequacy." "I'm feeling not valued." "I'm feeling wanted." "I'm not good enough." Self-doubt. Insecurity. Scarcity.

Cletus Once you become aware of that, now you own it. Now you are responsible for that.

Cletus You can't just go back and make an excuse and play victim.

Cletus Then once you see it and you start to shift, you can start to see it in others.

Cletus It's amazing how we used to attract people who were also feeling inadequate, insecure, scarcity.

Cletus Once you become aware, you can sniff that out.

Cletus Okay, this potential relationship, intimate relationship, or business partnership isn't in alignment because I'm sensing the insecurity in this person and that's going to affect me.

Cletus That's not where I'm at right now.

Hector Some of the biggest successful men in our current time right now, you can see people who are dealing with insecurity and inadequacy.

Hector Across the board, a lot of the global leaders are probably dealing with that.

Hector The challenge is when you have all that sort of power and you haven't done the work, it brings up fear.

Hector There is a little bit of worry and hope that the people who step into leadership next will have done this sort of work.

Hector When all of a sudden you come from that sort of place, collectively we all come from that sort of place, and we've done the work to put down, we've done our shadow work.

Hector If everybody collectively is lying to themselves, what does that do on a macro global level?

Hector At least we as individuals can start to do the work on our own.

Hector Like the Michael Jackson song, the Man in the Mirror thing. If I want to change the world, let's start here.

Cletus It's all a mirror.

Cletus [00:22:00] Disruption is a mirror. The hardness, the chaos that's going on is simply a mirror reflecting back to you where you are unhealed.

Cletus All the people getting triggered online, one side or the other, the triggering is a mirror back to where they are not healed.

Cletus There's a level of pain they aren't aware of and needs to be addressed.

Cletus It's the person on the other side triggering them, whether it be in a relationship or a political party, whatever.

Cletus They're being triggered by this person because of things that are unhealed in themselves.

Cletus So those triggers should be a mirror back into, okay, wow, why is this triggering me?

Cletus What am I feeling in the moment?

Cletus Most men don't do that.

Cletus "I'm triggered in this moment." "My wife triggered me." "This post triggered me." What am I feeling?

Cletus "I'm feeling angry." "I'm feeling unwanted." "I'm feeling disrespected." Whatever.

Cletus And that hurts. I'm feeling hurt.

Cletus Okay. Now we got to a feeling. You're feeling hurt.

Cletus Probably not the first time you felt hurt before.

Cletus Have you felt hurt before?

Cletus Okay, we can start to put it together.

Cletus So now, instead of blasting back, forget your party, you guys are the worst, or to an intimate partner you love, you did this.

Cletus You know what? I'm feeling hurt in this moment right now.

Cletus That shift in a dynamic for an individual, for a couple, for a relationship, for a community, for society.

Cletus We can start to tap into what are we really feeling in these moments.

Hector Breath work has been a big thing for me.

Hector I got into meditation about a little over a decade ago.

Hector Breath work was another layer on top of that to help me unstick a lot of the bullshit that's going on in my head.

Hector Are there tools or practices or habits that you fall back on or that you suggest or recommend often?

Cletus Wow. This was a life changer for me.

Cletus [00:25:00] I had enough pain and enough suffering and enough heartbreak to say, okay, I need to set a standard for myself.

Cletus That standard for me now: as a single father, as a business owner, it's so easy to start my day and just give, give, give to everyone else.

Cletus Get up, get the kids going, get the lunches ready, get them out the door, get them to school. Then we've got practices and Uber driver and client meetings and marketing and recording podcasts.

Cletus I took a step back and like, I'm not in this day, me. I'm serving everyone else.

Cletus It goes back to that old simple adage of put your mask on first on the airplane before you put it on anyone else.

Cletus So I decided to do that.

Cletus My mornings, I make them about me, get myself primed and ready to go so that I can show up as the man, as the leader, as the father, as a future partner for someone that I really wanted to be.

Cletus My mornings I do five key things. It's all based on the pillars of my whole Be the Torch program.

Cletus Focus: meditation time, journaling time, gratitude journal time.

Cletus [00:26:00] Fitness: some level of fitness. Some days I compete on the master's level of track and field, so I'm a competitive athlete for old people.

Cletus Often my training days can be on the weekends or in the afternoons, but I'm always doing something in the morning.

Cletus Whether it's doing my core, doing my hip flexors, just getting out and doing a walk. Something to get the heart pumping.

Cletus Or it may be an actual gym time, weights. Something fitness-related, body-related.

Cletus Family: I send a message to my kids. I'm dating somebody now, so I'll send a message to her. "Hey, just thinking of you this morning." Just making deposits in the love bank.

Cletus Or a friend or a colleague: "Hey, hope you're doing well." "Saw you got the promotion." Just checking in.

Cletus It takes two minutes. Quick text, quick email, voice message.

Cletus Fortune: I'll do something to invest in me as a business owner.

Cletus As business owners, it's easy to get into competency. I don't want to be competent. I want to be humble. Where can I grow? Where can I evolve?

Cletus Every given day, either I'm listening to a podcast after I drop the kids off on the way back, or I'm reading a couple pages in my book.

Cletus Foundation: core, connection to a higher power. That's where I'll do my meditation stuff.

Cletus [00:27:00] I hit those five things. It generally takes me about 60 minutes to 90 minutes, depending on where my workout is in there.

Cletus That's how I start my day. That's how I get myself pumped and ready to go.

Cletus What happens is, at the end of the day, I don't have any frustration or pain like I didn't do anything for me.

Cletus At the end of the day, you get the kids to bed and you're like, okay, where was I in this whole picture?

Cletus I got me. I took care of me. I took care of those that are important to me. I planted those seeds, so now I have the energy to focus on the kids and be there for them.

Cletus If your listeners are interested, I give it away, the whole process. They just go to cletuscoffey.com/morning. You get access to my morning routine. I walk you through it.

Hector One of my first coaches out of college was Hal Elrod. He wrote a book called The Miracle Morning. Very similar concepts.

Hector For me it was fundamental in becoming the person that I am today.

Hector It's evolved and shifted and adjusted.

Hector I can sense the difference when I've poured into myself in the morning and when I haven't. It's tangible.

Hector I feel it when you get confronted with the things that would most often trigger you.

Hector Sometimes that's the whining in the morning, or my kids bicker nonstop.

Hector If I get my breath work in, I can feel my ability to handle that. I feel my ability to hold the space for them and respond differently than if I'm just waking up and going right into the day.

Cletus It totally is.

Cletus [00:30:00] I also want to add in there that I have two women that I parent with.

Cletus I was married, had two children with my ex-wife.

Cletus Got into another relationship, had a daughter with her.

Cletus We are no longer together, and so I have to be a teammate.

Cletus My day can get really bombarded with depending on what's going on with the kids that day or what's needed, finances.

Cletus Early on, it was a challenge because both relationships didn't end very well.

Cletus I was angry, I was embarrassed, I was frustrated.

Cletus I came out with that energy and I got that energy back.

Cletus It was even more of a challenge.

Cletus Having to manage children, having to work collaboratively.

Cletus I've been fortunate to do the work. It's not always been unicorns and rainbows, but we've gotten to a place where we can work in the best interest of the kids.

Cletus There's a lot of distraction. External forces pulling at us as men.

Cletus At the end of the day, we talk about what makes us happy. Say something other than, well, the kids and I work and the little two-week vacation I had.

Cletus I've got to find happiness within ourselves. It's time for men to start doing that.

Hector I joke, there's this other mom at drop-off. On Mondays we sort of walk back and chat about the woes of single parenthood.

Hector I find that frequently on Sundays I have a near breakdown. It's usually in the kitchen when someone's asking me for more chocolate milk.

Hector I'm fighting back tears because I'm spent and exhausted.

Hector To your point, I haven't poured into me in days at that point.

Hector It gives me perspective though because I only have one co-parent to deal with.

Hector I can't imagine managing and navigating all that different stuff.

Hector Have there ever been moments where you've stepped outside and go like, whoa, this is crazy? Or this is a new level of challenge?

Cletus Oh man, constantly.

Cletus [00:33:00] What was important was for me to keep people around me that were of a growth mindset.

Cletus It's easy to, to your point, I took a step back. I looked around. I lost a lot of friends through the divorce because I moved to the city that she was living in, I adopted a lot of her friends and didn't really make my own.

Cletus Once we went through the divorce, sometimes people choose sides.

Cletus I lost my network.

Cletus Then I ended up getting into another relationship and it was a very toxic relationship that drew me away from my world.

Cletus I was locked in this relationship, more like, how can I get out of this? It's just not working.

Cletus I looked up and I'm like, I'm with no friends.

Cletus The ones I did have, several friends that were divorced, single father, executive entrepreneur type.

Cletus We'd get together and the things we'd talk about was, ah, how's the crazy ex? What issues are you running up to now? What'd she do now?

Cletus I was thinking to myself, we don't talk about, on Sundays, did you find yourself in tears trying to manage the kids? What are you really feeling?

Cletus I had to distance myself from people that all they wanted to do was talk about the crazy ex because I don't want to talk about crazy exes.

Cletus I wanted to be in a collaborative, loving, co-parenting environment.

Cletus I had to stop thinking along those lines and stop bringing that energy into my world.

Cletus The other thing was being honest with my kids as they got a little bit older.

Cletus I now have 19, 16, and 9.

Cletus To be honest with them: "Hey guys, here's the deal. We've been doing this all week, and you've pushed back on all your chores. You've been very demanding." "I'm running into multiple different places." "Guys, I am tapped and I'm feeling myself about to explode." "I do not want to explode on you guys, but I'm feeling tapped and I need you guys to recognize I need your help." "I'm doing this all on my own."

Cletus It's easy to just get mad and yell at them, but I didn't want that experience in my home.

Cletus I had to start to be open and honest and vulnerable with them as to where I was at in those moments, at the level that they could understand.

Hector Self-regulation is just.

Hector Thankfully I have the tools that I've developed over the years.

Hector My kids just know. They'll recognize like, oh, dad's.

Hector I tell them, I need to center myself. I'm going to the garage. I need to get centered.

Hector Hopefully they'll be able to see that they can do that, that they are in control of their state.

Hector There are moments where I slip up and moments where I'm less exploding.

Hector The explosion is much more tempered.

Hector The challenge is that you can't draw on that tool if you don't have it.

Hector You've gotta put that deposit in well ahead of time so when you need it, you're able to draw upon it.

Hector You can't realize, oh, I need emotional regulation, and develop it in that moment.

Cletus For sure.

Cletus [00:36:00] We're human. We have our moments.

Cletus In those moments, it's really important to repair.

Cletus I asked my 16-year-old, "Have you ever heard me yell?" He goes, "No."

Cletus My 19-year-old reminds me of a moment where I did, and I almost regretted it big time because he's a 300-pound offensive lineman. He's playing college football right now.

Cletus He did something where they were horsing around throwing the ball in the house.

Cletus I asked them to stop a couple times. They didn't do it.

Cletus Of course, I knew it was gonna happen. The ball hit me in the face.

Cletus It was one of those weeks where I was at my wits end.

Cletus It hit me in the face and I popped.

Cletus The challenge was I got nose-to-nose with him, and I kind of regretted it because I'm thinking, he honestly could manhandle me right now.

Cletus Thankfully he didn't.

Cletus But the important part was to go back and repair and say, "Hey, look, that's on me." "This is what happened." "This is what I was going through." "This is what I was feeling." "I probably should have communicated that I didn't." "I exploded." "I apologize."

Cletus When I show up vulnerably, it invites partnership and invites others, invites them to do the same.

Cletus We can do so much more of that apologizing, repairing.

Cletus Especially in the corporate world. Leading with that. "Man, that was on me. I apologize."

Cletus It invites others to show up at that same level of vulnerability, truthfulness, connection. That's where partnerships become unstoppable.

Hector My ex had a challenge with saying sorry.

Hector [00:38:00] It was never an apology. It was just like, let's forget it and move on.

Hector If that's what they're getting on the other side, that's the other side of the spectrum they're exposed to.

Hector I made it a point to apologize and repair.

Hector Also, when it comes to being a dad, even in my anger, there's never a judgment on them as a kid.

Hector The other day we had a big chocolate milk spill.

Hector I probably lost my cool more than would’ve been ideal, but my son knows I'm upset at the chocolate spill.

Hector It's not a damnation of him.

Hector I've seen people cut off affection or like, don't be around me.

Hector Now all of a sudden the kid is scared of the adult.

Hector I've had a blow up and two minutes later they come up and give me a hug and we're cuddling again.

Hector It's part of the fact that it's not a damnation on them.

Hector I've even seen parents say, "You are being so," or "You're so." Back in the old days, they used to call us stupid.

Hector That's giving identity to the kid.

Hector I try to never do that unless I'm affirming them.

Hector I don't want them to create an identity based off of a mistake they just had.

Cletus Absolutely.

Cletus It's our job as parents to provide correction.

Cletus There's a difference between correction and criticism.

Cletus Criticism is attacking their character.

Cletus It's confirming something that's not true: they're an idiot, they're dumb, they're stupid, they're bad.

Cletus It's teaching them to be on the defensive.

Cletus Now we're raising individuals that get into relationships who are constantly on the defense.

Cletus We can provide correction in a positive way.

Cletus [00:41:00] That still has consequences based on age and severity. Life has consequences. We need to learn those things.

Cletus But we can provide that correction in a way that elevates them and changes behavior without having to criticize their character as a human being.

Hector I'm curious. In your work, what's been most surprising as you've gone on this journey helping men through some of these challenges?

Cletus I feel like I get surprised every day.

Cletus What's surprising is how many men are really hurting and just aren't talking about it.

Cletus It's surprising how many men are alone trying to go at this on their own.

Cletus By alone I mean don't have a brotherhood of other men to talk to.

Cletus It's surprising how many men don't have friends and someone they can call.

Cletus "I just had a horrible blow up with my partner and I need to talk to somebody."

Cletus They don't have anyone on speed dial.

Cletus [00:42:00] It surprises me because I've always been an avid learner.

Cletus "The learners will inherit the earth, while the unlearned will be beautifully equipped for a world that no longer exists." I'm completely spacing on the guy that made that quote.

Cletus I've always been someone of learning and growing.

Cletus It's surprising how many women are out there learning, growing, investing in themselves.

Cletus And seeing men that would much rather invest in their marketing than in their own personal growth.

Cletus Men will invest in a new car than in how to develop their communication skills, how to be a better leader, better father, better man.

Cletus The cool thing is being in this space is that it's ripe.

Cletus There's a lot of coaching programs that are developed by women and often have a feminine undertone. That's great. A lot of men aren't aligning with that.

Cletus Nor are they aligning with the alpha military, we're gonna shove your face in the sand. That may work for some.

Cletus I find somewhere in between.

Cletus Saying, hey look, I'm real. I'm a dad. I'm a man. I don't have much of anything figured out.

Cletus But the stuff that I do understand, the experience I've had, I want to be of service to other men.

Cletus That's where I launched my program. It's called Be The Torch.

Cletus It stems from my darkness and wishing that someone could bring the light to me, and realizing no one was gonna come save me.

Cletus [00:44:00] I gotta light my own torch. I gotta figure my way out of this cave.

Cletus By doing so, I can't keep it to myself. I want to pass this torch on to others and be the light as an example of possibility.

Cletus That's how it got started.

Cletus We've got groups. We can create that community, a brotherhood. No more lone wolfing.

Cletus Let's get guys together, have these conversations. See the guys a couple steps ahead and help the guys a couple steps behind so that we can all learn and grow from one another.

Hector Two more questions.

Hector The first is if people wanna find out about that or get more connected with you, where's the best place to go?

Cletus The best place to go: let's have a conversation.

Cletus If you go to cletuscoffey.com/book-a-call, and Coffey is C-O-F-F-E-Y. cletuscoffey.com/book-a-call.

Cletus Let's hop on a call. Let's see what you're working on and where I can best support you.

Cletus I'm @CletusCoffey on all social channels. You can find me there as well. Shoot me a message.

Hector Amazing. Last question for you, Cletus. In your opinion, what is the definition of modern masculinity?

Cletus [00:45:00] Freedom, vulnerability, honesty, truthfulness. That is us.