When Success Leaves You Questioning with Nik Hulewsky

[00:00:00] Hector: Fellas, what's going on? I hope this episode finds you well. And I hope this episode knee, I hope this episode leaves you better than when it found you. Today's episode is with Nick Helusky. he's someone who has been a great example of, someone who's climbed a couple of mountains. had a ton of success in business now finds himself at the, bottom of another mountain, right?

[00:00:54] Hector: Looking up. And I think that meant at a certain point, sort of, we all have these mountains to climb and, perhaps we're, all on maybe on different ones, you know, looking at each other from, different mountain ridges. And yet we're still going through the same thing.

[00:01:06] Hector: You know, we still have a lot of similarities. In the journeys that we're going through and especially what happens after you have a ton of, quote unquote success, it's a really interesting thing that seems to happen, specifically for a lot of guys who are now, the concept of money or, the need to work just for money is sort of removed and what that does.

[00:01:24] Hector: And, that does.

[00:01:25] Hector: And, well, we talked about it today, so anyways, let's get into today's episode with Nick.

[00:01:31] Hector: Nick, welcome to the Modern Masculinity Podcast. Thanks for being here, my man.

[00:01:35] Nikolas: Thanks for having me, man.

[00:01:37] Hector: Take us into your world. Talk to us about something that's real or prescient, a challenge that you're going through as a man, a provider, you know, all the roles that we, carry as a man, what stands out for you right now?

[00:01:49] Nikolas: Uh, it's a great question. It's a loaded question. I'm kind of in this weird place. I sold several of my businesses a year ago. And the following eight months, I worked for a company that had acquired the businesses that we sold. And three months ago, I just, I told my wife, I'm like, I can't, I can't do it anymore.

[00:02:07] Nikolas: Right. My heart wasn't, and I didn't want to be there. And so I ended up quitting and have been obsessed with this idea for the last year about building relationships, building an audience. Getting to know people through social media, LinkedIn, Twitter, Facebook, whatever you use. And the reason I have this thesis is because I think AI is going to disrupt everything, but I think if you have good relationships, that's very difficult to disrupt.

[00:02:30] Nikolas: How do you automate a relationship? It's almost impossible. So I've been going down this rabbit hole and after I quit my job, I just decided, okay, I'm gonna, I'm gonna start a podcast and I'm going to start putting out content. And I've been doing this thing where I'm like interviewing people and meeting people and having conversations.

[00:02:46] Nikolas: And I'm very lucky in the sense that, you know, we had some exits and I have some, a margin of safety and I can. Be selective with my time. I know how lucky I am, but the thing I'm struggling with is there's also this other component to it, which my wife is looking at me like, all right, so are you, uh, just playing on YouTube all day?

[00:03:05] Nikolas: Are you? When are you going to start actually doing something productive it's weird. It's been a weird kind of dynamic for me for the last several months to kind of navigate.

[00:03:15] Hector: Man. Yeah, I get that in a different, albeit opposite sort of vein, but I think it's on the same spectrum. I remember there was a time when. We had just lost a big contract with a big network and it slashed like 75 percent of our income. it was the equivalent of losing a job, you know, I had some other clients that were kind of there to go it, but the bulk of our, my income got slashed. And at the same exact time, my wife's, well, she's my ex wife, that's new to say, my ex wife career started to sort of take off.

[00:03:51] Hector: And she was crushing it at work and as she, just climbing the ladder. And so there was this point where it was like, okay, I'll be at home with the kids. there is this role reversal and it was, I'm living in the world where, 50 and women want their own, you know, it's like, I'm like, okay, this is what's supposed to happen.

[00:04:12] Hector: Like, this is normal, quote unquote, or this is, it's all fine. Right. It's like that, it's like that dog where the, the house is burning and he's like, this is fine. Right. Like everything is fine. That's how there was a moment that was like, that's kind of how I felt. and I've gone through this journey where at a certain point where it was like that was not fine, even.

[00:04:29] Hector: Whether it's energetically or consciously or subconsciously or like at whatever dynamic, whatever level you want to take it to, it was just like, I did not see that. I'm just fumbled the bag on that whole thing being like important. I didn't. I don't know. And in that same sort of way, I'm seeing like you, like and it's not even about the crazy thing is it's like, it's not even about the money necessarily.

[00:04:54] Hector: it's sans money. It's like this idea of us as men going out and hunting or us as men going out and,

[00:05:04] Nikolas: Yeah. It'd be the equivalent of like 10, 000 years ago. I don't know, found this bounty as harvest that would last us for the rest of our lives. And three months later, my wife's like, okay, what are you doing now? I'm like, oh, I'm, uh, I'm looking for food, six feet under in the cave. She's like, well, nothing lives in the cave.

[00:05:23] Nikolas: I'm like, yeah, yeah, yeah, I know. I know. Just trust me. there's food in there. I think it's gonna pay off. And she's just like scratching her head. It's not that we necessarily need to have a new harvest or we need to have more food, right? It's just like, what's going on, buddy? how's life treating you?

[00:05:37] Nikolas: And that, part's been weird for me. Like especially as a man, there's so much identity tied to your job or what you do. I mean, how many times have you been in a conversation where you meet somebody and they're like, oh, hey, it's nice to meet you. What do you do? Well, that's the first question and understandably, so you're, you're sitting there and you're like, well, I work at XYZ place.

[00:05:56] Nikolas: Like, that's just where you go to. It's not like, oh, Hey, Hector, where are you from? what's your favorite sport and what are you obsessed with right now? Like we don't ask those questions. It's always like this, like sizing up of what do you do? And so my son recently, and I love my son to death.

[00:06:10] Nikolas: His friends have been like, well, what does your dad do? Like, oh, he's an entrepreneur. Oh, that's cool. What kind of entrepreneur? What does he do? He's looking for a job. And I'm like, I literally had that experience. I came out doing a podcast and my son's friend was over. He's like, Hey dad, dad, dad, dad, come meet Mason.

[00:06:25] Nikolas: I'm like, Hey, what's up, Mason? It's like, Hey, Mason's dad's an entrepreneur too. Like, Oh, sweet. You told him I'm an entrepreneur, right? He's like, yeah, yeah. What'd you tell him? I do Royce. I told him you're looking for a job. I was like, all right, back to the cave. got to get back to the lab. So it's just weird.

[00:06:38] Nikolas: It's just a weird kind of place to be that I'm like processing through.

[00:06:41] Hector: yeah. kids do say the darndest things. That show was, was great. You know, I remember watching that show growing up and now I'm realizing why, they decided to film it. Yeah.

[00:06:52] Hector: You know, it's interesting that you mentioned the concept of a job and, the other week we had a men's circle at our men's group that I started here in Orange County. And one of the opening questions that I asked people to introduce themselves with was, I want you to talk about yourselves, but I don't want you to introduce yourselves, but don't talk about your work and don't talk about your family.

[00:07:14] Hector: And it was like

[00:07:15] Nikolas: Oh, that'd be a hard one.

[00:07:16] Hector: this. flummoxed moment where people were like, you know, and it's like, but someone asked me that, or someone posed that to me. And I really didn't have an answer because to your point, so much of my identity was wrapped up in one of those two things. And the crazy part is when I see like those two things like crumble, When I see like my idea of what my family was, the idea of this perfect family, white picket fence sort of thing. Like, okay, that dream is done. and at the time, one of the things that I think didn't help was that my business was really sort of struggling. It didn't help that the founder was in his own mental health crisis and was, trying to save his relationship and was an emotional wreck.

[00:07:58] Hector: You know, not to mention that he's, responsible for the top line revenue. So like, it went with his mental health. But all that, to say two things came crumbling down and I had to figure out like who I was sans that and that I'm at least grateful for that because, you talked about kind of going through this, midlife crisis and I remember as a kid thinking, like, how silly, like a midlife crisis, like, what do you have to worry about?

[00:08:24] Hector: why are you so emotional? You know, and like, here we are, I'm 32. And like, you

[00:08:31] Nikolas: Well, I mean, Again, it's easy to get your identity wrapped in that because as a man, especially a man with children, you're kind of have two primary jobs provide and protect and it's easy. I have four boys under 10. It's easy to just worry about what are we doing day to day, right? Like I come home. My wife's been with the kids all day.

[00:08:51] Nikolas: That's all she's done. It's hard for us to even have a conversation about anything other than kids related because that's your whole It's your whole world. That's what you're wrapped up in. And when one of those things crumbles, like you said, when you lose your job and when your relationship crumbles really hard on you, it's really hard because that is so much as your identity of who you are, of what you do, of how you base yourself worth.

[00:09:10] Nikolas: Oh, I am a vice president at XYZ company and I make 150, 000 a year. Those go away. All of a sudden it's like, Am I valuable anymore? who am I, how do I assign value? What do I think is important? and luckily I did a lot of this work years ago. My wife and I did. We went through some really difficult times and were forced to confront these things head on.

[00:09:32] Nikolas: But I think a lot of men, a lot of my friends, a lot of men in our 30s, we all have to Face that question at some point and answer it and the answer is different for everybody.

[00:09:41] Hector: yeah, you know, what, what our worth is based in, I think at a certain point. I had to put down this idea. It was essentially wrapped up in other people's sense of worth. it was my mom. It was my family. It was my teachers. It was society. It was my ex wife. it was all these things that said you should read.

[00:10:02] Hector: Be doing this and some of those i kept but i realized that a large part of it was not in alignment with who i actually was and was creating a lot of the frustration and a lot of the problems that were manifesting themselves in my life was like well you this is you know when i trace it back far enough it's like well dude it was you it's just you you you you brought this here

[00:10:26] Nikolas: Well, I, think society creates these rules and these norms and it's important that we have those things, right? Like without even the unspoken rules, society would kind of crumble if people weren't kind to each other. We didn't have things that we agreed on that we considered to be valuable. And so over time, it makes sense that when you're growing up, I think you said in a previous episode, you went to a Catholic school, but you're taught these norms to sort of make sure that society continues to propagate.

[00:10:50] Nikolas: There comes a point in every man's life, every woman's life where they're confronted with the, do I believe in these norms and like, who am I? Because you can no longer just muddle your way through life. You can't just keep going because everybody else expects it of you. and like society served a function to a certain point.

[00:11:08] Nikolas: It's like, cool. I got through high school. I got through college, got my first job. Like it helped me understand how to navigate things. But then you get to this spot where You need to figure out who's Hector? Who's Nick? do I enjoy? what's important to me? Who are the people that I want to be around?

[00:11:19] Nikolas: What do I want to spend my time? because without that, your life just lacks meaning.

[00:11:24] Hector: yeah i think maybe there's a way to get it through someone's head, in the nice scripted way, but it seems like, I don't know, I had to hit like a rock bottom and I can't tell you how many rock bottoms I feel like I've hit. It seems like it's one of those cartoons where you fall off a cliff and then you like land on a little thing and you're like, phew, and you fall again and you're like, You know, but it feels like that needs to happen for guys to like up or perhaps not.

[00:11:54] Hector: I don't know. I, look at my son and I'm like, hopefully he doesn't have to go through the immense amount of pain to realize what you said, which is that you need to figure out what you want to do. The girls want, you think girls are family or who are like, you have like this whole other person wrapped up in your head.

[00:12:11] Hector: Like, no, dude, do you, I can't, I see him at school and he has these girls that he's kind of like into. And I'm like, just remember, dude, he's five. and just for it I got this picture back on his field trip of him walking to the fire station with a girl in each hand and he just asked what girl on each side and i'm like Thank thank god, you know, like he has it because I didn't but I tell him like dude you were you are the catch do what you want to do because one day he came home And he said I asked him what do you do at recess?

[00:12:45] Hector: And he's like, oh whatever this girl wants to do And I'm like, I've made that mistake of just doing whatever they want to do. it kind of works for a moment until after a while it doesn't. Because it's not you.

[00:12:59] Nikolas: Yeah, maybe. I do feel like though, it's okay to be agreeable. I'm agreeable. I can have fun doing a million different things, right? My wife is very particular. She likes to do certain things. And so if I can have as much fun doing many different things, and she only has fun doing kind of one or two things.

[00:13:16] Nikolas: I'm okay. Sacrificing to do the stuff that she wants to do. Cause you know, what does that matter to me? I think it's when you get to the point, which I think is really what you're articulating is like where everything is like secondary to another person. that's where it's unhealthy, that's where you have no sense of self worth or no sense of self period.

[00:13:35] Nikolas: And you just go along, you're codependent on somebody and you have this like really unhealthy sort of back and forth in a relationship. So I don't think being agreeable is a bad thing. Okay. Right.

[00:13:45] Hector: I'm glad you bring that point up because I'm, also probably like overcorrecting like way hard because I'm, a recovering, people pleaser one of our episodes that's coming out soon as a, with Dr, Robert Glover, who, wrote No More Mr. Nice Guy, so it's like that was such a big part of, the downfall of our relationship was because I became too agreeable at the expense of myself, and I look up going, who am I?

[00:14:09] Hector: And now that's gone, like, it's literally, I'm left with, just yesterday I was journaling like what matters to you? what are the core values, right? And they came to like, truth and love and, growth and like just these core things that I had never really taken the time to articulate about myself.

[00:14:27] Hector: and I think that sort of stuff is important for guys though.

[00:14:31] Nikolas: I'm a people pleaser. I've had a problem with that in the past, but I also, for whatever reason, maybe my mom was really good to me, or I just grew up in a environment where I had self confidence. I just was always comfortable kind of with who I am. And I was okay telling somebody, feedback that they needed to hear.

[00:14:49] Nikolas: When I first met my wife, the first time I met my wife, we met, it's like this church function playing basketball. Every time I passed her the ball, she shot it every time. And it bugged the crap out of me because we were losing and she's missing. And all the other guys that she had either dated or been interested, they're not going to say anything else, whatever.

[00:15:03] Nikolas: Shoot your shot. We'll go on a date after this. And in the middle of the game, I went up to her and I'm like, Hey, you don't have to shoot the ball every single time. You can pass and she was like, taken aback and then we played and got better. She didn't shoot every single time, but she ended up telling me later.

[00:15:16] Nikolas: She was like, I appreciated that you gave me feedback. I appreciate that you at least said something to me. And that's the way I've always kind of approached things. It's like, Hey, look, I'll be agreeable. I'm a people pleaser, but also give you feedback on something. If I feel like we need to have a conversation.

[00:15:31] Nikolas: I think that that's where you can get lost sometimes and not being comfortable just giving feedback and realizing. Feedback's okay. You're not attacking the individual and we as people pleasers feel like feedback is like attacking the individual. So, that's a hard thing to work through. I know.

[00:15:45] Hector: Yeah. I heard on a podcast recently by a friend of the show, G. Russell Reynolds on Ignite the King, he was talking about how your values are your foundation and what they allow you to do is then they allow you to have appropriate boundaries that both are required.

[00:16:03] Hector: And in your story, I go, Oh, you, you had the boundaries to say like, I'm not, you fucking stop shooting the ball. you had some boundaries. Whereas the other guys, maybe their values were based in, not shooting the ball or whatever, and that sort of thing, but they didn't, or, their values were based, but they didn't have the boundaries To not do that. And we can, I'm trying to extend the analogy because for me, that's what I didn't have was I didn't have the boundaries or the willingness to stand up for myself, I've talked about it in the show a lot, but it's the abandonment wound. It's the, I'm not, you know, it's all of that sort of stuff, coming to a head where I'll people please to the point where hopefully you don't leave me.

[00:16:43] Hector: And then, that's exactly what happened. So here we are. Here we are.

[00:16:48] Nikolas: hello. Uh, no, man, I I'll give an analogy as well, but I'm religious and a lot of people are like, man, aren't the commandments really restrictive? And I mean, you went to Catholic school, so you, you know, this stuff aren't what God's expectations of you really restrictive. I've always said like, yeah, but they're also very freeing because I know the rules.

[00:17:07] Nikolas: I know the game.

[00:17:08] Hector: are they really? It's like, don't kill people. Like

[00:17:11] Nikolas: yeah, if you're like,

[00:17:12] Hector: don't steal. Like, are they really that that's restricted?

[00:17:17] Nikolas: well, you get, you get some people who are like, don't drink alcohol. Don't swear. don't watch these types of movies. Like it all depends on kind of how much you let it govern your life. Yourself, but here's the point I'm getting at, Mark Zuckerberg wakes up every morning.

[00:17:29] Nikolas: He wears the same clothes because he doesn't want to waste the mental energy on deciding which clothes to wear. I think it's the same, whether it's religion or whether it's like you said, your core values. If you know who you are, I don't have to waste any mental energy on like deciding. Should I do or should I not do?

[00:17:42] Nikolas: I already know. I made the decision beforehand because I've actually done the work and I know who I am. I understand what's important to me. So in that respect, like it's very freeing once you know who you are and you can spend your energy on things that actually matter, not stressing out or having anxiety of whether or not, So, and so took a comment that you said the wrong way.

[00:17:59] Nikolas: and that's why I think we don't recognize enough. We recognize it in like working out. Okay. Yeah. If I'm strict about working out, I know I'm going to get bigger and stronger and faster. Oh, if I'm strict about eating, I know that my body's going to look better. I know if I'm strict about working a lot of hours, I'm going to get paid more and recognize more.

[00:18:14] Nikolas: We don't necessarily correlate that with like, Oh, okay. I know if I'm strict about understanding who I am, like what's important to me, then I'm going to have a better quality of life. it's harder to make that point. Leap, I think,

[00:18:24] Hector: Yeah. growing up, I struggled with self worth looking back and I, Hey. Tried to figure out like, why, where did that come from? And it's, in sort of what you're saying in the sense that I knew that I was not giving it, that I was coming up short on myself.

[00:18:42] Hector: I couldn't get past that. So I knew that I was sleeping in or I knew that I wasn't doing the things that I know I said once again should be doing, but it was only when I started to actually execute on those things in a way that was, wholesome and loving and not like tyrannical, right?

[00:18:59] Hector: Cause there's a way to come at sort of these things, which you're just end up like whipping yourself and Beating yourself emotionally into, working out more or getting up earlier, whatever. And so think a way that's a little too much when I started to actually follow through on my word, right?

[00:19:13] Hector: I think it comes from the four agreements. Like when I actually followed through on my word or I made it impeccable, I was impeccable with my word. I think that's what it's called in there. did I start feeling better about myself? nothing else changed circumstantially, relationship was still in shambles.

[00:19:28] Hector: Business was still having its growing problems and all the things that's going, you know, it's like, we're still, nothing else changed, but I just started doing the things that I said I was going to do. And all of a sudden I started feeling better about myself, and so I think that if nothing else, that's a place where guys can start.

[00:19:43] Hector: And that naturally leads to, results and changes and

[00:19:47] Nikolas: I mean, we're, we're hardwired that way. we were the hunters, we were out trying to get stuff done. and there's a famous talk about making your bed. Have you ever heard that talk? get up in the morning, start making your bed and it's because achievement or accomplishment begets more achievement and accomplishment.

[00:20:01] Nikolas: And you feel a sense of self worth and you feel pride. And for you, it was, Hey, I'm going to work on keeping my word, that was the first kind of building block to build your self esteem or, or respect back. In my mind, it's just about finding something you can be consistent and proud about.

[00:20:16] Nikolas: And many guys, our age getting, start working out at the gym. I didn't. Yeah. I didn't exercise until I was like 32 and now I'm religious about it because I've seen the benefits of it, but there's something about setting a goal, accomplishing a goal, and then looking back and being able to say, Hey, I did that that gives you the confidence to then do the next thing.

[00:20:34] Nikolas: And that's why the making the bed analogy was powerful to people when they heard it, because it was like making your bed in the morning seems like a little thing, but. It has all these secondary and tertiary effects that help you be better throughout the day.

[00:20:45] Hector: Yeah, I just started doing that My daughter and I sleep together. And so now I can, it's just, it's a good lesson, but I'm like, and also when we get back in bed, it's nice. there's a nice bed to get back into, which is, that's nice to, talk to me about, because, one of the big things that, that happens I've heard happen from a number of guys who have these exits is they go through this process of what you're talking about, where they've got to kind of find like, what's next. And I think on our first call, like I almost asked you, like, are you in that phase? has that happened?

[00:21:17] Hector: Because I've, heard it like almost to a T founder after founder who goes through these, you know, exits, , they build a company quickly. And then now all of a sudden it's their baby. Essentially, it was kind of taken away from them as a, That's a 3, 4, 5 year old, right? I can imagine like know, it's not the same exact thing, but almost so what's that process and journey been like?

[00:21:35] Hector: and, you know, specifically, what are some things that you have found helped you move through that? sort of journey?

[00:21:41] Nikolas: That's a good question. yeah, I think I am going through that journey myself. Personally, it's weird when you're, again, when you can no longer like assign, Oh, I'm Nick and I do this. I'm not introducing myself as a podcast host. Even though I'm spending a lot of time doing podcasts, or I don't introduce myself as somebody on Twitter, even though I spend my time doing that now, because that would be weird, like people look at you like, huh?

[00:22:03] Nikolas: What? What do you do? but I think for me, this all started years ago. when you have to go through the process of knowing yourself, what are you good at? What are you bad at? I remember the first time I got fired and I like sobbed that night because I, they don't like me. I'm terrible. I thought they were my friends.

[00:22:21] Nikolas: Right. And I had to hit that point in order for me to kind of do some self reflecting and evaluation. I'm like, okay, what am I good at? What do I like doing? What are my non negotiables? I don't think you ever just, okay, today, Or yesterday I didn't know my non negotiables and today I know them.

[00:22:35] Nikolas: I don't think that ever happens. I think it's a continuous thing that evolves over time. But for me, I had been very grounded in knowing I don't want to do anything that I don't want to do. With people, I don't want to do it with because life is short and that has been a guiding principle for the last five years where businesses I started or bought, if I didn't want to be there with somebody, either I'm, I would help them move on or I didn't hire them or I didn't do the deal because I, again, I think life is short.

[00:23:04] Nikolas: I always had this guiding principle of, is this something that gives me energy? Is it something that I'm excited and passionate about? And if it's not. Then I need to do something else because I know my strengths and weaknesses if there's something that doesn't interest me, I'm not going to be good at it long term.

[00:23:17] Nikolas: I might be good at it in short stints, but long term, it's not going to be healthy for me or my family. Those are hard decisions to make because when you've got a job offer for 300, 000 and it's doing something that you're good at, but something that you know you're not going to enjoy, try saying no to that and then talking to your wife about why you said no to that.

[00:23:32] Nikolas: that's a really hard conversation. So you have to do the work and understand. Okay. Strengths, weaknesses, things that give me energy, things that don't give me energy. Where am I going to spend my time? and now I'm at the point where I don't have to worry about necessarily the income component of it because that was the piece for many years where it was like, okay, what do I like to do?

[00:23:51] Nikolas: What gives me energy and where can I earn money? so there are trade offs in each one of those. Now it's more of what do I like to do and what gives me energy. So I have less trade offs on the money side of things that I can focus on, things that I like, but, I don't even know if I answered your question.

[00:24:03] Nikolas: that's kind of my fundamental philosophy on how I approach life. Now

[00:24:07] Hector: Yeah, this idea of doing what? I feel like there's always that trade off, right? that we have to make. And going back to our previous conversation about, what's in alignment with what we really want. I think the word is ikigai. I think that's what it's called. Something like that.

[00:24:23] Hector: But it's like

[00:24:24] Nikolas: sound very smart. I have no idea.

[00:24:26] Hector: That same sort of thing where it's like, what are we good at? What does the world need? And like, what can we get paid for it? Like that concept, And it's a triangle, . And I think that creates some sort of stability and all of a sudden you take out one of those points and it just, it gets interesting, right.

[00:24:42] Hector: I'm sure it's a good problem to have that a lot of our listeners would be helpful to, you know, would be happy to trade with, but nonetheless, no different than any of our, our challenges that. That we're going through it as

[00:24:53] Nikolas: And I, I also, I don't think it's like, Hey, what do you love to do? Well, I really love. Dance history from the French revolution. So all I'm going to do is read about that and I'm going to teach about it. And I don't care if I only make 10, 000 a year, that's my passion. I think that's stupid too, because that's not doing the world any good, and I do feel that as a, father and as a husband, I'm a protector and a provider. Can I provide for my family? If I'm teaching French revolution dance theory, probably not. I look at things that are more fundamental. Well, it's like, well, why are you interested in French revolution dance history?

[00:25:28] Nikolas: Well, I love history. Okay. Well, what you love about history? Well, I like figuring out how things work and how they got to where they are. Okay. Well, that's interesting. Have you ever explored that? Uh, no, not really. Right. Cause figuring out why things are the way they are is problem solving.

[00:25:43] Nikolas: Like you're trying to put the pieces together. So for me, as I'm like going through this process, I love meeting people. I love solving problems. I love learning. And I was able to take those things and monetize them, not necessarily in things that I was passionate about, like healthcare. I think it's important, but I wasn't like waking up every morning, like pep in my step to go provide home health and hospice services, but I was passionate about helping people solve problems.

[00:26:10] Nikolas: I was passionate about getting to know people. I was passionate about making a difference and providing joy through service. So, like in my mind, it's more the application of what you're passionate about as opposed to the raw pursuit of what you're passionate about. If that makes sense, when young people are looking at how do I make a career?

[00:26:26] Nikolas: How do I make a job? Like, how do I stand out? and I think that's where. We tend to confuse things is by thinking, Oh, well, if you're passionate about this one thing, then you should only ever do that. Well, no, you should follow the passions that are base level skills that will allow you to do other things down the road.

[00:26:45] Nikolas: But , don't fall so in love with this quote unquote passion that you're sacrificing. Your family, your time, your finite resources, in the pursuit of it.

[00:26:54] Hector: it's a big question to ask. And my brain goes, Hector, this is all great, but like shit, oftentimes shit is moving so quickly some guys are just trying to get through. the day, You know, some at family functions, people ask like, Oh, how are things going?

[00:27:12] Hector: And my answer is like, we're all here. We made it. Everyone's healthy, all their limbs are still attached, they're smiling, you know, we're, we're here, but sometimes it feels like that, when you're putting out fires at work, you're putting out fires at home, you're putting out your own internal fires, mentally and emotionally and things like that. And then, and then you look up and you're like, Oh yeah. And the world seems to be like, only like having more fires, at a global scale. And how are you. How do you navigate that, right? Like, how do you, how do you stay balanced between staying informed and educated and involved and engaged? And it's like, seems like having any one of these sort of battles, whether it's as a father or a business owner or a creator or an influence, having any one of these is its own challenge, but we're asked to sort of do them all at the same time, which I think is its own unique sort of fucking.

[00:28:12] Hector: War, if you will.

[00:28:14] Nikolas: I think, not well, think it ebbs and flows like sometimes I'm great at it and other times I'm terrible. Like when you're launching a business as an entrepreneur, you're not as present for your kids as you would like to be. I was literally just talking to somebody about this. I don't have a job right now.

[00:28:29] Nikolas: there's nobody who's like checking in on me and clocking in and clocking out, but it's really hard for me in what I'm doing to not to shut things off after a certain time. So there are times when I'm playing with my kids and I'm just not present and I'm like, my wife checks me or I have to check myself to kind of get back in the moment.

[00:28:44] Nikolas: But I think to your like fundamental question for me, you have to do the work like you said in the beginning, I don't, I hope my son doesn't have to ever hit rock bottom. But I don't know that you can ever learn these lessons without hitting rock bottom. I don't think you can ever learn these lessons without hitting rock bottom.

[00:28:59] Nikolas: I just don't. I think you have to go through hard things in order to build up the resilience necessary to defend yourself against hard things later on in life. And in your analogy where you're like, I felt like I kept falling and the floor kept falling underneath me and I fell again and I fell again.

[00:29:13] Nikolas: I view that differently. I view it as like you're climbing a mountain. And the first thousand feet was really hard, but the next thousand feet was easier. And you look back and you're like, Oh, wow, I built up some strength. That was good. And then you did 5, 000 feet and 5, 000 feet felt like 1, 000 feet.

[00:29:29] Nikolas: Like they're the same level of suck, but then you realized I'm actually getting stronger. Oh, that first thousand feet wasn't that bad compared to this last thousand feet. So it's like those experiences are giving you context. They're giving you, they're giving you strength and building your resiliency and they're necessary in order for you to become.

[00:29:48] Nikolas: A strong and well grounded and grounded person. but you have to do the work early on. Well, not early on. Just, you just have to do the work at some point, whenever that point is of who you are, know thyself, what's important to you. I'm blabbering on.

[00:30:00] Hector: this concept of like this level of this, I think it's a great book. It's like the same, it's the same level of suck. You're like, well, you know, it's one of those things where like afterwards it makes a lot of sense because, that's sort of what happens. I'm one of those guys.

[00:30:14] Hector: I'm in that phase where, you know, I started training jujitsu and so all I talk about is, is training jujitsu. But that really shows itself there because you, at the beginning, it really sucks, and there are days where it's like, oh, you know, it like going through and getting manhandled and strangled and choked out, you know, 18 times in a six minute round instead of, you know, and then it's only 12 times.

[00:30:39] Hector: And then it's like, okay, he only got me four times and you know, and then, you get to the point where, you know, a couple of weeks ago, it was like, okay, first few rounds. I didn't get tapped at all. And then, it got around with the black belt and that went out the window and there was that 14 rounder.

[00:30:51] Hector: Well, yeah,

[00:30:52] Nikolas: hard and you've built

[00:30:53] Hector: It's the same level of thing. it's the same level of suck, but you're able to progress a lot further, which I think is, profound concept that I think not a lot of guys give credit to when they're going through those hard things.

[00:31:05] Nikolas: or they let it go. Like who was it? Rahm Emanuel. He was, he was the former, chief of staff to president Obama. And he made this dumb comment that was like, never let a good crisis go to waste. And he got a bunch of crap for it, which understandably. You know, you got crap for it, but the truth is you should never let a hard thing go to waste.

[00:31:22] Nikolas: You went through this really crappy situation where you've gotten divorced. Freaking sucks, man. But you're approaching it with like, okay, well time to rebuild myself. I'm going to do jiu jitsu. I'm really taking a look at what's important to me. What's valuable. I'm spending time with my kids. I'm reorienting myself around my business.

[00:31:39] Nikolas: You didn't just let it happen to you and just, right off into the sunset and not take that opportunity to improve yourself. You are trying to actively improve yourself. And I think a lot of times bad things happen to us. instead of trying to improve, we just look at, well, crap, this bad thing happened to me.

[00:31:53] Nikolas: Doesn't my life suck. It's freaking sucks, man. My wife left me. My freaking business is doing crappy. Don't you feel sorry for me? This freaking sucks. And, and nobody wants to be around that crap. You don't want to be around that. , you don't even want to be around yourself during that time. , and they don't take the opportunity to actually improve themselves.

[00:32:08] Nikolas: And that's what's like hats off and all the kudos to you, my friend, because you're going through, one of the suckiest things in life. And you decided to proactively do these other things to help build yourself back up. That's a hard thing to do. And you should be proud of yourself for doing that,

[00:32:25] Hector: I appreciate that. I'll need to work on receiving that because it's been, uh, you know, I think it's also because it's easy for me to be like, to make light of it and kind of joke and jest about it. yesterday, I think I just started crying like seven times throughout, just throughout the day, just like triggered, like different songs, different pictures, like cleaning.

[00:32:50] Hector: I was, we're cleaning the backyard. I was cleaning out the backyard and just like different triggering things. And it was just like, so there's also that. And, then also moments of the question that keeps coming up of like, okay, now what? Like, yes. And now what? that is the question, that keeps getting presented to me.

[00:33:09] Nikolas: but you're doing the right things, you're seeking out hard things to do. You're building like, okay, I'm going to go try jujitsu. I've always wanted to, I don't know. I'm putting words in your mouth, but if you were a beginner and you just started recently doing it, I'm sure it was like, I've always wanted to do this.

[00:33:22] Nikolas: I'm like, that's it. I'm doing it. Or you're turning your business around. Like you're in the experimentation phase and that's fine because you're, trying to figure out, okay, what, can I be doing? That's going to reground me. And you may or may not have found it yet. And I don't think you should knock yourself for.

[00:33:36] Nikolas: Being in that exploration phase. It just, it takes time. Things take time. There is no overnight solution to problems. Period.

[00:33:44] Hector: Yeah. I've talked about it a number of times on the show, but there was a moment early on in this sort of journey where it was one of the first times I didn't have the kids and no real like parental responsibilities. And I didn't know what to do with my time. Like, I didn't know what to do with myself.

[00:33:59] Hector: started cleaning. Just cause that was my response, right? When like, okay, like, Let me clean and I had to stop. I'm like, do you really want to be doing dishes right now? for a moment, I didn't have an answer, which is the really insidious part. And so I do a lot of contemplative work, a lot of breath work and meditation.

[00:34:20] Hector: And so I'm, probably on the spectrum of self aware in terms of, you know, of our thoughts and stuff. I'm probably on the higher end of the spectrum and just, now my ability to do anything with that self awareness though, that's. to be continued, but at least it's there. And so I know that if I have that, like I struggle with that, then I can only imagine how much the average guy just running on autopilot or running on this programming or running on whatever the make, society or whoever has told them, to do.

[00:34:53] Nikolas: I remember I was 18 and my friend, he's probably my oldest friend in the world. We went to kindergarten together and we're still friends. He lives near me here. , he still brings this story up often. We're sitting in the car and I was like telling him all these things I wanted to do. Now I'm one of nine kids.

[00:35:07] Nikolas: And my parents, my dad's an immigrant, my mom, is not, she's Jewish, it's a blended family. There's like four baby daddies and two baby mama, three baby mamas combined into our Brady Bunch family. We were very poor. So it's like, it was a weird family situation, but I asked him, I'm like, Glenn, what are your goals?

[00:35:26] Nikolas: And he still says it to this day. He's like, that's the first time anyone had ever asked me that question. And I was like, I don't think I have any goals. Cause he just wasn't thinking about things. Yeah. I think men in particular need goals. They need something that they're working towards, that they're striving towards.

[00:35:39] Nikolas: Even if it's getting better at jujitsu, we need things to help us continually progress. And we've seen it through history. We've always explored. We've always tried to find new things. And now we're living in the best time in the history of the world, with the most resources at our disposal. And we're depressed it's because like we, at our heart are strivers, we have to find the things that help us strive 200 years ago when you were working the field every single day, it's miserable existence, but those guys weren't thinking about their feelings.

[00:36:11] Nikolas: They were like waking up when the sun came up and milking and hunting and making sure I I don't even know what they were doing. Like, I'm just throwing out stuff. I think I read somewhere before, but their life was, they didn't think about this stuff. Like we're fortunate and unfortunate in the sense that we have so much.

[00:36:25] Nikolas: That it's given us time to contemplate these things. And then it's really hard to figure out what is my goal? What am I trying to do? So that, that becomes scary. So we push that off and instead go look at Netflix or we go, play a video game or do something that distracts us from the hard questions like, who am I?

[00:36:43] Nikolas: What do I want to do? What's important to me? What are my goals? There are so many distractions that it, it robs us of that internal drive to, to go out and look and accomplish things.

[00:36:55] Hector: Any favorite practices that you have or rituals, whether it's daily, weekly, monthly, that you feel kind of contribute to this sort of groundedness, if you will.

[00:37:06] Nikolas: my favorite thing in the moment is wrestling with my sons. I have four boys under 10. I know that sounds so stupid, but when I wrestle with my boys, it like reminds me. There's a difference between boys and girls. They're just, they're like little dogs. You know, you got to walk them and they're going to pee all over your house cause they just are animals.

[00:37:25] Nikolas: But, There's something about just being physical with my boys and thinking about that sounds weird being physical with my boys, but wrestling with my boys and thinking about how do I model the type of behavior that I want my boys to see and that I want to see in them as they grow up as men like that.

[00:37:40] Nikolas: So that act, I know it sounds super weird, but I think about a lot of things as I'm wrestling them that ground me. I think another thing frankly that really helps me is my wife. she's just, I don't know what other word to use, but she's incredible. she's constantly like, Hey, are you here?

[00:37:56] Nikolas: Hey, be present with the kid. Hey, they're trying to get your attention. If I try to buy her an expensive gift, she's like, Hey, is this gift for me? Or is this for you? Like, this is nice, but is this to make you feel better about, you know, you're a man who can take care of me or. Do you really think I need it?

[00:38:09] Nikolas: Cause I don't actually need this thing. she's just so real and grounded that it's something that's really helpful for me in my life. I think those are probably two of the things that really helped me the most being physical. connecting with my wife,

[00:38:22] Hector: Yeah, this is a really good stuff. Nick, if people want to find out more about you, go deeper in your world, get connected with you, where's the best place to go?

[00:38:32] Nikolas: I'm pretty active on Twitter co founders, Nick, and, I put a lot of my thoughts out there. Talk a lot about being a father, running a business, screwing up lot of failures, hopefully sprinkle in a winner to every now and then, but that's probably the best place. I also have a podcast called economics that they can check out where I explore the economics of small business.

[00:38:50] Hector: It's awesome name. , last question here. Nick, in your opinion, what's the definition of modern masculinity?

[00:38:56] Nikolas: think the definition of modern masculinity is, the same as it's always been. this may sound weird, but I think men have a role in society to be protectors and providers. And we can argue about many things, but by and large. Men are bigger, stronger, faster. Yes. There's some women who are stronger than men.

[00:39:15] Nikolas: but on average, men tend to have larger physical characteristics. And I think even from the time that we're young, there's an opportunity to help educate us. Especially as men to understand that there is a responsibility that comes with that and part of the responsibility is provide to protect people who maybe are not able to stand up for themselves, to help those who need help, even though we're in a world now where many times both parents are working and there's a lot of noise about toxic masculinity or mansplaining or the patriarchy.

[00:39:48] Nikolas: It's not bad to be a man. You can still help people. You can use your gifts and your strengths to make a difference, a positive difference in the world. So I still think I still believe in protecting and providing for people, whether you're a father or whether you're just a man in society, it's, it's an awesome responsibility to have.

[00:40:07] Hector: Yeah. Great stuff here, fellas. I want to thank all of you for sticking around with us today. We'd be forever grateful for rating or review wherever you get your podcasts. And if you know a guy who needs to hear this, hit that share button and let's grow the community together. go get connected with Nick, subscribe to his podcast and, myself on Instagram at Hector underscore podcast, if we're not already, but as always, we appreciate you hanging out.

[00:40:31] Hector: We'll see on the next one. Later fellas.