Navigating Divorce, Economics, and Purpose as a Man with Brandon Peele

[00:00:00] Hector: Fellas, what's going on? I hope this episode finds you well, and I hope this episode leaves you better than when it found you. Today's episode is with Brandon Peel, and he is the author of a book, and the name of the book is called Purpose Work Nation. And I guess it's a business book, but it's really more of a, personal book, right?

[00:00:52] Hector: It's a book that talks about the importance and why men today, you know, in the context of our conversation are going to be the reason that this country, you know, I'm speaking from a Western U. S. Perspective, but that the Western world is going to make it out because men are able to rise up.

[00:01:12] Hector: , and become the men that we are called to be. I think most men who are being honest with themselves see that the generations of past had an incomplete picture of masculinity. And we, as the torch bearers of this lineage, we get to take what is great and to leave. What is not to be unburned by what has been, if you will, but the point is, is that it's, it's up to us and we can sit around and look around and point to other people to come in and change things and fix things and save us.

[00:01:56] Hector: , but if you're listening to this show, you probably don't have that mindset. You probably don't have the mindset of, of blaming and making other people responsible for coming and saving you. I mean, if you're listening to this show, it's probably because. You're, you know that there's no one who's coming to save us, that we, we have to save ourselves.

[00:02:16] Hector: And so , I'm getting on a stump here a bit and I'm going to, I'm going to get off and, uh, you know, we're going to get to Brandon, but just know that I am realizing that our calling as men is just, it's even greater than, than our, it's ourselves. It's greater than that. It's greater than our family and perhaps even greater than our country.

[00:02:37] Hector: You know, when we think about what we're up against, so enjoy today's conversation with Mr. Brandon.

[00:02:43] Hector: Welcome to the modern masculinity podcast. Thanks for being here, my man.

[00:02:47] Brandon: Yeah, great to be here.

[00:02:48] Hector: We always ask the guests to take us into their world and share a little bit about what they're still challenged with as a man, as a provider, a father, partner has been business. So you're all the roles that we sort of provide.

[00:03:02] Hector: So. despite your work and your years, what are some things that you're still, in the midst of today?

[00:03:08] Brandon: Yeah, it's it's a great question. I'm absolutely, there's my inner work around, still healing the father wound, the mother wound. and then in terms of how I show up in the world, I would say that, the piece that feels like less. Solid clear is just kind of like the business model. I make enough money to take care of myself right now.

[00:03:28] Brandon: And I'm not married. I'm actually going through a divorce. but yeah, probably if I wanted to have kids, I'd have a lot, a lot of difficulty like paying for that right now. So. luckily I'm, that ship has kind of sailed, I'm 47, so I'm not too worried about it, but, trying to raise kids under, in late stage capitalism, not fun nor cheap.

[00:03:48] Hector: Yeah, it's definitely something, I'm going through and I, hear about the kids are expensive thing and I think that that's true, but it's, it's that time is so valuable these days. And I think that also game you're sort of playing. playing. And, Kind of publishing a book, you've done a lot of work in terms of, I don't know the right way to put it because I don't know if it's civics or politics or, but essentially out there kind of tried to make a change in the system that we live in right in the kind of the world in the country that we live in.

[00:04:18] Hector: And what I really appreciate, but appreciate about what you're doing is there's this story of remembrance maybe, or like a going back to, sort of thing. And I, I would never consider myself like very patriotic growing up. I grew up on the West side of LA, in the nineties and two thousands.

[00:04:36] Hector: And so I was always considering myself very progressive and left leading. And then, you know, over the last several years, you start to realize like, we do have really something special in this country. there is something really special about the American way, dream, like everything that all of a sudden you start, you know, I'm 32.

[00:04:59] Hector: And it's like those things you start to question, or you start to imagine what things are like without some of those things. And it's like, man.

[00:05:07] Brandon: Oh, yeah. Yeah. I mean, I know it's kind of similar, I didn't grow up with a strong connection to being an American or anything like that. yeah, it didn't serve in the armed forces didn't, we, of course we watch fireworks and all that kind of stuff, but, for me, it was, it was George Floyd's murder that kind of woke me up to, wow, we have this beautiful purpose as a country and we are.

[00:05:32] Brandon: Really screwing the pooch on it. Like I mean, and not that like, I marched around Ferguson 2014, 2015 and all that. But like, something about George Floyd's murder scene, like a middle aged white guy slowly murder a black man on camera. You know, it was probably, it was probably like the Rodney King moment for, our parents generation or something like that.

[00:05:52] Brandon: Like, I was like, not in my house. Like what? No, and of course, you know, once you pull back the curtain, we're running like slave labor camps and all over the South, like Angola, like these are, People who are like serving life in prison and working six days a week for Bank of America, Eddie Bauer, McDonald's, Starbucks, like literally doing all this free slave labor, basically.

[00:06:17] Brandon: I mean, they get paid something, but it's like 30 cents an hour or something like that. So it was just this kind of moral collective national awakening that happened in my heart where I was like, whoa, we've got to protect this house. so much.

[00:06:30] Hector: Yeah, there's so many things, right? It's a real culmination. And I think the challenge that at least a lot of guys my age grew up in that sort of space is that there was the, We're at the end of the track. Basically, there was a groove. there was a system that was laid out.

[00:06:46] Hector: It was the go to school, get good grades, get a good job, work, go through the system. The system was set up and it was laid out. And my parents were very fortunate to benefit a lot from that sort of cushiness. I don't think that they had any sense of how cushy things actually were.

[00:07:03] Hector: Sort of work and you start to kick out some of those stools from underneath them, right? And it really exposes this weird underbelly that it's it's kind of this clash of all these storms whether it's I mean You can pick it's political or socio economic or I mean, whatever you want to look into relationships I mean like they you know, they found a way to make sports sort of divisive So it's like there's all these ways in which people can get caught up in sort of this devices You

[00:07:30] Brandon: Yeah. Yeah. there's a device in this piece and then there's also like the brass tax helmet piece, as you accurately laid out, that track ended, study hard, work hard is not a way to middle class security. It's just not. think it's always been that way for a good portion of the country, but now it's like, now it's hitting folks that, thought that, they were the lucky ones, cause they were raised by whatever, good parents, educated parents, suburbs, whatever.

[00:07:58] Brandon: And they're struggling. I mean, they're absolutely struggling. if you didn't buy a house 20 years ago, good luck. So.

[00:08:07] Hector: My parents were fortunate to buy in 2001, which is the day after father's day. And it's like, I don't ever take it away. It's never like, a, Oh, what was me? You guys had it so lucky.

[00:08:20] Hector: so I think that it's less about them for the listeners of the show. It's less about them and what, is, they had a great negotiate. I just hope that guys who are listening realize that it's different now. we can't expect to play about the same, anything that they,

[00:08:37] Brandon: And, that per the kind of title of your podcast, right? I mean, to grow up in a, time to come of age as a man at a time when all the previous economic assumptions are no longer valid, like, what does that mean about you as a man, as a provider? As somebody who's trying to make life better for the people he loves.

[00:08:57] Brandon: it poses brand new challenges or really, really rather kind of just turns up the heat on the whole, what does it mean to be a man? Conversation, more so than it maybe did in the past. because if you're having trouble feeding yourself and others and paying rent and all that, think the median income in the United States, on like 35, 000 a year.

[00:09:16] Brandon: I don't know what the median rent is for, but if you have a family of four, you're looking at at least a two bedroom, probably a three bedroom, if not four. And the average mortgage on something like that would be like three grand a month. So you would not be able to own a home. And if you were to rent, you would actually pay not that much less.

[00:09:32] Brandon: You might pay like 2, 700 a month for that same thing. So what does that leave to live on? I mean, somebody's got to take care of the kids and pay the rent. Pay the, just not enough people, not enough hours, not enough money coming in to cover the escalating costs. And that's, yeah,

[00:09:51] Hector: well,

[00:09:51] Brandon: can put a man on his hard part.

[00:09:54] Hector: think at least if there's an acknowledgement, I'm perhaps the eternal optimist. It's one of our shows that we produced, but shout out to Matt drink on former guests of the show and friends of the show, that at least with an acknowledgement there, we can start to look and find solutions because collectively, if we all wake up and realize that like, Hey, we've got to do something different.

[00:10:13] Hector: Well, at least we can all start pulling on. Whatever we're pulling on in the same direction, whereas right now it just seems like everybody is so caught up in, shit. That's not important. have this problem because I find myself getting drawn into the reels and swiping and social media.

[00:10:31] Hector: And it's like, I have to like collectively intentionally delete the apps off my phone and they somehow find their way back on. You know, I find a reason to redownload them. so I'm coming at it with a sense of, intentionality and awareness. And so I can only imagine people who are just out there blowing in the winds, what they're subject to, when they're kind of influenced by all these sorts of things.

[00:10:56] Hector: I don't know, you call it what you will.

[00:10:58] Brandon: Well, I mean, yeah, Facebook post a while back was like the examined life unexamined life, both equally miserable, at least you have some agency with the intentionality you're talking about, right? you can obviously start to ask bigger questions about your own life and relationships and patterns and habits, but that muscle being trained, That's actually what makes a leader, somebody who sees a dynamic that is not working for him or her and all the people they care about to go change it, you know, whether that's passing legislation, running for office, starting a company, but, yeah, I mean, and that's, that's what we need right now.

[00:11:33] Brandon: We need people like yourself leaning in, asking the questions. Because it's almost like all bets are off everything that we were taught in high school, not really true anymore in terms of what it means to be an adult or succeed. So we got to ask the questions.

[00:11:49] Hector: Yeah, and I'm just scanning my body, and it's just like, it's so, it's fucking scary, it's what it is, it's like what it feels like. Because, I'm going through, similarly, we're going through a separation, and, we've got two little kids, and it's just it's totally, Different than the track that I foresaw, right?

[00:12:08] Hector: It was like, oh, yeah, along with the job. Okay, you get the wife and you're, you know, happily ever after and you're married forever and you, kids are like of the standard American, what a dream, whatever is like, okay, that was the track. And now all of a sudden that, it's like in the Looney Tunes when that track, kind of falls off a cliff, there's no more track left. And all of a sudden you're slamming on the brakes. and then even you get, I feel like you get to the end of the track and you're like, I'm at the place where it's like, now what now. Not only am I doing something totally, totally new. So there's that fear and uncertainty, but there's no model for it.

[00:12:48] Hector: there's no reference point. there's no, I can look to this and go, okay, here's how to nav. Here's the playbook. Here's the blueprint, which we were so was so embedded into as well. Here's, here's the playbook. here's the rubric there isn't one anymore.

[00:13:02] Brandon: yes. And, you know, I love what you just did there, like scanning your body, noticing what's there doing men's work gives you access to the deeper wisdom intuition. the deeper truth. and that's a tool set that is good for everybody, but we especially need it now, like if we're not able to like summon what's really true for us and access that, like sadness, the fear of, being without a safety net, being without good role models.

[00:13:27] Brandon: we don't have a chance because we have to be able to share that truth in order for other people to join us or to feel safe with us as friends, as business partners, as lovers, it's all that kind of stuff. So that's what's there, like, yeah, we got the map of the human heart and hopefully some, good books and mentors to, help sense make the chaos.

[00:13:46] Hector: the other side of it that I think is, important, and, we as men at least are not in direct control of it, is an acknowledgment from women that things have changed as well. and they have been to their point, they've been clamoring about this for a long time, right?

[00:14:01] Hector: With the feminist movement. And I remember making this post a while ago where it was like, this is like the first time dads are called to be a good dad, a good provider, a good husband, you know, to be all of these things at the same time. And someone was like, well, welcome to women for the last X amount of time. And it's like, yes, and. that's what you asked for. And it's like, not that we didn't ask for that, but I think that we now are in a place where we can both acknowledge each other, as opposed to it being this combative sort of, like for, it's, it's so weird that There's this movement of like, women don't need men, it's a really strange place that's, in society and a really weird thing that's in the world, you know, it's in the music, it's in the culture, it's just this.

[00:14:54] Hector: and I think that men are, whether it's consciously or subconsciously, are feeling that, like, well, where is my place? what role do I have?

[00:15:03] Brandon: Yeah. Amen. I mean, I don't envy there's no other than maybe somebody's got a trust fund. Like, I don't really envy anybody right now because I remember when I was coming up in high school, my mom was like, I'm so glad I grew up. In the fifties and sixties when the power gender dynamics were more or less stable, you know, not equitable, but at least I knew what to do and how to do it.

[00:15:25] Brandon: she was telling me this in the nineties. As I was like, you know, entering high school colleges, like, I don't know how the hell you're going to navigate all this with like, every woman now has a job out of college. You know, every guy's got a job out of college. What is the gender role?

[00:15:40] Brandon: should there be one? all those questions are, are brand new. And the thing is like very few folks engage in gender studies. They just follow a couple of influencers who tell them what a man is supposed to be, a woman's supposed to be. And, and you're right. there's a not small portion of women are like, give me a dog and a vibrator and I'm good.

[00:15:58] Brandon: I'm good, like I don't need anything else.

[00:16:01] Hector: I've talked about it on this Show quite a bit, but there's a song that my daughter ended up knowing the words to that Her mom would play sometimes and it would say I don't need a man I need a puppy and it's like it's laughable, right? but it's I would get so mad hearing that because it's like two reasons first is I'm like I get mad because that's what's out in the culture and that's what?

[00:16:25] Hector: That's what's out there. So that that makes me but then it makes me mad because You I think it's an uninformed opinion. it's half of the reality, and for my daughter to hear that, and she's three, four, so she doesn't know what she's hearing, I even think about me, the, type of music And the culture that 90s and 2000s kids came up with the type of damage that did on, their relationships and their, their idea of ideals about relationships.

[00:16:52] Hector: but yeah, think it is a particularly challenging time for guys and to not say that I don't think gives it, credit. And of course there are other, there were other hard times, but the hard, at least. Seemed hard in the sense of like, what to do.

[00:17:07] Hector: So there was clarity in the heart. Now there's so much uncertainty in the heart. And I think that creates a, an extra layer of challenge.

[00:17:17] Brandon: Like specific to men, but I just zoom out a little bit. the consensus reality that you and I grew up in, I'm a little bit, like actually 15 years older than you, you're 32. I'm 47. still pretty much held until say, like Clinton Bush years. it was like everyone, okay.

[00:17:33] Brandon: we believe in, multiracial liberal democracy. We believe in journalism, science fact, we believe that capitalism is better than the alternative or any of the alternatives we believe in, all this stuff is like, stuff that now everyone's like, wait, who said, who said democracy works?

[00:17:50] Brandon: Who said capitalism works? We said that, You can believe what's written in the New York Times, like now it's like, the level of uncertainty across the board, across sectors is enormous and it puts anybody engaging in any type of bond, whether that's a romantic pair bonding type thing, or doing business, you have to have some level self awareness and certainty about what the future is going to be.

[00:18:14] Brandon: And I think now all you all, all you have is self awareness. Cause if anyone's proclaiming like they're certain what's going to happen this election season or in the next. Four or five, six years full of shit. there's completely disconnected from reality. Cause we got, China and Russia at the gates, climate change, economic inequality, AI.

[00:18:35] Brandon: I mean, like it's chaos. It's absolute chaos. And then how do you find your way into that other than going within? I don't know.

[00:18:43] Hector: Well, that's a good point. I think it's important for men. I don't know, this is just a personal belief that we can't bury our head in the sand, like period, like we can't just bury our head in and pretend that, oh, it doesn't affect me because yes, you know, the problem is, is I look outside of my window and I live here in sunny Orange County in Southern California and it's like birds are chirping, people are on their walks there's this dichotomy of how do I not bury my head in the sand?

[00:19:12] Hector: So while also keeping my head, family prepared and, keeping myself prepared and whatever that sort of thing. And then also not lose your peace, your sanity to this. Because we all have that one person that posts 18 memes a day or stories and they're all, they know about every, news report and new update about, whatever's going on, wherever it's going.

[00:19:36] Hector: And it's like, it seems like that's also really unhealthy too, because so there's this, balance that I don't know, I haven't figured it out.

[00:19:48] Brandon: And I think everyone's got to be. like an explicit relationship to what is enough and the right kind of information for them allows them to be centered, peaceful in service you know, in their career, in their families, all that. prior to the 2016 election, my philosophy was just read the Sunday paper.

[00:20:07] Brandon: That's it, get a once a week, intimate immersion into the matrix is doing the rest of the time, information is not going to help me live my purpose, ignore it, just ignore it. so now granted, the 2016 election put a lot of stuff in stark relief and I started paying attention a lot.

[00:20:24] Brandon: I'm like, wow, fundamental structures of society are falling away really quickly. I should pay attention more. And I remember after the 2020 election, just taking this giant sigh of relief, like no more tweets, no more tweets, you know, just like not that, everything was fixed in 2020, but at least there wasn't, somebody who had no understanding of the role and responsibilities, like causing chaos for fun and profit.

[00:20:53] Brandon: so more than likely, chance that. We'll have another four of that craziness that it behooves all of us to like, again, like go within what's our purpose, our mission, what information is going to serve that how connected do I want to be to what's happening in the world?

[00:21:09] Brandon: And what does that look like? Like, what's the structure of the discipline around that? so for some, it could be a weekly thing, monthly thing, hopefully not daily because it's crazy making

[00:21:19] Hector: Yeah. cause was talking to someone on my team today and I, told him I have so much shit going on that I had to draw out my life in like A diagram of circle, like it was just like, look like icons, like little buttons, but it was just this web of circles because I needed to get a hold of just, just my own stuff that's going on.

[00:21:39] Hector: And how do I prioritize all the things that are going on? Because let alone stuff that's happening outside of my life. I mean, sometimes as these external. Pressure start to build up. I think if you don't have any sort of intentionality, those things can very easily seep into our lives and start to create kind of this internal chaos that creeps into our, our walls and turns the peaceful, sightedness into this, chaos, craziness.

[00:22:04] Hector: Yeah.

[00:22:05] Brandon: Absolutely. Yeah. And it does really, I mean, this speaks to masculinity, but I think just adulthood in general I think everybody, whether they know it or not, is being like called back and like, first principles are, what does it mean to be a human being, an adult, an American, a father, mother of someone, an employee, a business owner, and who am I, what is my unique expression of all those things?

[00:22:28] Brandon: I think I shared some of this with you over the train and delivered a lot of purpose works like getting clear on that purpose and values piece is critical because that's essentially the compass that's going to have, that's going to guide us through all the other chaotic, relationships, economic dynamics, social issues, all that. Because if we're, attempting to navigate this moment right now without a compass, like without purpose and values, like it's insane. I don't know how people do it. I don't know how people are attempting to be, to live their lives. Or to like parent unless they know clearly like what is theirs to do in this world You know and how to do it would be hard fake it, you know

[00:23:10] Hector: What are you seeing as the connection between sort of this, like you said, we're being kind of called back to, first principles. How do you see that happening, with regards to the country, like specifically, let's assume our listeners are in the United States, how is that playing out?

[00:23:26] Hector: Or what are you seeing in terms of like, the trains starting to go this way, the tracks should go this way? Like, how are you, I don't know, categorizing, picturing that in your head? And, and what are some things that guys might be not privy to that you think should be on their radar?

[00:23:43] Brandon: Yeah, I mean, I think it's a very important question right now not just because it's an election season because of the polarization division stuff, but the united states is it's a covenant it's an agreement based on principles Like it is not We're not an ethnostate, a religious, nationalist type thing.

[00:23:59] Brandon: It's like, no, we actually have a set of principles that we're supposed to be fulfilling on. in this sense, like, the decision to still live here is a choice. And I mean, it's easier choice for some than others to leave, but we all can leave. There are places that will take us and, you know, to that end, there are places that fulfill on the purpose of the United States way better than we are.

[00:24:21] Brandon: but I think it's, it's important for every man to know like what country he is in, it's not just the name, but what's it about here? so here we have, Lincoln. Reagan and Kennedy kind of elevated as uh, actually Lincoln said it best. It's like the central tenant of our ancient faith.

[00:24:37] Brandon: It's like all created equal. If you're not here for that, if you're not here for every person to be, recognized as having dignity and worth, To, get everything they need to be fully created, which, you know, it's not just about insemination and birth takes decades of family, nature, resources, schools, time to grow into a created human being.

[00:25:02] Brandon: And we didn't say all babies created equal. We said all men created equal or all humans created equal. So if you're not here for that, if you're not here for everybody to have everything they need to become a fully created human adult, this isn't the place for you. every man needs to choose, like, I'm choosing to live here because I believe in this.

[00:25:21] Brandon: And if I don't believe in this, I should leave. so that's what I mean, like getting back to first principles, like this is what this place is about and we get to choose. there's other pieces of our purpose that roll up to that, but like, putting forth a, government and an economy that delivers everyone life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness, and then also,

[00:25:40] Hector: That's where my head goes is like, you get wrapped up in it's like, I feel like it's one of those, you can't have one without the other. just to mandate one without providing supporting in some sort of other, other sort of capacity seems. incomplete at least,

[00:25:56] Brandon: know, and I mean, it's, it's, it's pretty much bullshit like a promise without. the product, the bill of sale without the product. And that's what, got Martin Luther King jr. Killed because he's, he said, okay, we, we got equity before the law, you know, the 64, 65 civil rights acts. But what we don't have is fulfilled equity in our lives. that's why he launched the, poor people's campaign to bring the actual bread and butter to all created equal. And then. A lot of folks who weren't committed to that said, nah, I think we're going to kill you and we're going to kill Malcolm and we're going to kill Bobby Kennedy and we're going to end.

[00:26:32] Brandon: So I don't want to reduce the entirety of the United States and its purpose to racial justice, but it's a big piece. if this was World War II, that would be like if the Pacific theater, like if you're not, if you're not going to fight that, you're not actually fighting the war, you're fighting something else.

[00:26:49] Brandon: Like, so, everyone needs a living wage job. Everyone needs safe streets. They deserve, not to be profiled and murdered by the police. healthcare, like all this stuff that we, we fricking invented here and everyone else's in Europe and other places are doing it way better than us. we need to do what we said we were going to do and actually become

[00:27:07] Hector: is the right, perspective, because as I'm sitting here, I'm going, all that sounds ideal, and I think the natural, tendency, the natural, whatever you want to call it, is to think that government is going to do it, or that government is the one who's supposed to do it. Are you of that mind or, at least I seem to be of the mind that we as men, I mean, it starts in our home.

[00:27:30] Hector: And then it expands into our communities, you know, and that it's not a deferment of, oh, let's give that responsibility to the government have them take care of it, but that we, as men have the opportunity to, in each of the communities, both micro macro that we impact that there's a way to bring that Into that, you know, and to influence it systemically as opposed to hoping that, some big brother is going to come in and fix everything for us.

[00:27:57] Brandon: yes. I mean, I think it's a yes. And, because there are certain things that you and I have control over. And then there are certain things that we can only do together. so let's say you and I are neighbors and we're like, Gosh, you know, like taxes are out of control. The police just bought another fricking tank.

[00:28:14] Brandon: Is that what we really need in going up and down the street right now? Or, do we need to be think differently about public safety? so let's say you and I are there like, so yes, we can be beautiful, democratic, empowering, inclusive. loving souls in our homes, our communities, and that's still not going to keep that tank off the street.

[00:28:33] Brandon: It's only you and I talking together and say, Hey, we should go to city council meeting and you say this, I'll say that. and then there are more things that are more people on coalitions. it's a yes. And, and local politics is probably the easiest and most effective way to get involved as a man.

[00:28:48] Brandon: if you're pissed off, it's happening in DC. Great. You can actually change what happens in your town within a month. I mean, I've seen it happen in my town. So, yeah, it's a yes. And I mean, you can't just block the world out and just focus on yourself and your friends. You gotta get to the city council meetings.

[00:29:06] Hector: Yeah, I think the thing that was probably lost, I don't know if it was ever around, but I know one thing we didn't come out of school with in the 2000s was like this civic. Understanding of how, I mean, we had a, an intellectual sort of understanding of how things worked. I mean, you take government class and three branches of government and, you go through the basics, but there seemed to be a gap in understanding and what you're talking about and how to actually effect change, how to actually make an impact.

[00:29:37] Hector: And it seems like, Once you have your home dialed in, once you're living, in that accordance with your values that naturally the extension of that is to go into your community and to go into your neighborhood and it seems like those places make sense, but that it's, It requires both, if you don't go in with having your own home in order, now you're just, bringing chaos to the community in which you're trying to lead and vice versa,

[00:30:02] Brandon: Yeah. I mean, I wish it was as simple as like, take care of your own house and then move out in these expanding organic circles. And like I said, there are certain things that are going to impact what's happening inside your home that, if you and I and other concerned citizens don't get together and fix the thing on the street and the schools and the downtown area and the playgrounds and make the overpass, if we don't do that, it's going to mess up our house.

[00:30:25] Brandon: Because our son, our daughter is going to get involved in drugs, the gang, the whatever the thing is. it's a yes hand, for sure.

[00:30:33] Hector: don't you think that with enough person, I mean, if Jesus, maybe these are my views coming out here with enough personal responsibility that, That's, you know, when we talk about a community and fixing stuff, if you get everybody on board to take, now that that level of personal responsibility, obviously, that's an ideal.

[00:30:48] Hector: So maybe that's, that's kind of what we're talking about is the fact that to get everybody to take personal responsibility seems impossible these days, it's just, it's not in the water. But yeah, I guess it's the practicality of where we're at and where we're trying to go and how do we bridge that gap and how do we actually, know, move from, from where, we stand today into a place that I think is like, it's uncharted, we talked about the beginning of individually, we don't really have a vision for ourselves because things are so, are so different. I would imagine that collectively as a nation, we're, in that same sort of identity crisis. perhaps that's why things are so, so crazy, because when, when an individual goes through that sort of.

[00:31:28] Hector: Life transition, life event. I mean, things get kind of crazy and things kind of happen in the macro in the same way.

[00:31:36] Brandon: Yeah. I mean, that's exactly what's happening. I mean, you've named it. I mean, there's always going to be, transition and loss. there's going to be people dying, people getting sick, people, marriages breaking up, losing houses, cars, jobs, all that kind of stuff, it's, it's always going to happen. And now we're at a place where collectively our agreements are on the ballot. are we. All created equal or, or are we an apartheid, that is exactly what's happening. So puts everything else at serious risk, serious systemic risk. Cause if we can't agree on things and agree, what a fact is, you know, have bipartisan legislation, we're not going to be able to meet.

[00:32:16] Brandon: The threats of China and Russia, we're not going to be able to deal with climate change. I'm not going to be able to regulate AI or social media or, living wage economies and all that. Like the machine doesn't work. in this sense, like local politics is still something available to us. But again, that's still like a privileged thing to do because so many folks are hand to mouth. You know, working 70 hours a week just to keep the lights on. And how much time are they going to devote to civic engagement when they haven't seen their kids in three days? Probably not much. They're probably like city council can wait.

[00:32:49] Brandon: I'm going to go hang out with my son, play catch, or I'm going to, my daughter's going to paint my nails tonight or something, you're going to make those choices for your kids. so, so this is where like, when I, shared earlier, like we collectively, we have to do something different because we're asking parents to make an impossible choice.

[00:33:06] Brandon: Like, do you care for your kid now at the expense of their future or do you care for their future? Now at the expense of the present. And that is not what being an American is like. You're supposed to be able to be safe and whole and then create a better future. Not having to sacrifice who they are today versus who, what's available then tomorrow, that's not how it's supposed to be.

[00:33:30] Hector: that there are decisions being made in the macro that affect. Our data, you know, to them, it seems like budget items, right? So it's just like line items and, know, the points on a bill or something like that, or another, whatever, whatever it is that that finds its way onto these budget things that go through the government.

[00:33:48] Hector: And then we're the ones that are. Dealing with inflation or dealing with, interest rates, whatever the implications are that creates as you talk about it, it, does seem a little more than a little fucked up. yeah, it's rather fucked up, right? In the sense where you, you would look at that and you're reading what kind of what's going on in a history book and you go like, shit, they kind of, you know, was pretty fucked up for them.

[00:34:14] Hector: Like them having to live through that. And meanwhile, not that there's some sort of cabal that's, actively pulling, the strings, but that these decisions are being made and that they are affecting, our day to day sort of lives.

[00:34:28] Brandon: That's absolutely what's happening. you know, 1 of the things I tackle in the book I'm releasing now is like, how do we actually develop the type of citizen adult leader that is thinking in the 7 generations ahead? because it, takes a lot more than just like. some kind of spreadsheet to be able to optimize the decision.

[00:34:48] Brandon: You gotta, you gotta tune into like, what's right and true for you. What's right and true for the purpose of the United States or, you know, your community. And, unfortunately very few public servants have done any self awareness work. I haven't gone to therapy. I haven't gone to a men's circle. They haven't been trained in ethics, philosophy.

[00:35:05] Brandon: they don't have a deep spiritual practice. They're just winging it as like. Basically former businessmen, for lack of a better word, I mean, like they're just winging it like, Hey, I, grew this company. Why can't I be a politician without ever asking themselves they are, what's the purpose of the United States?

[00:35:22] Brandon: Do they have anything unique to give? Do they have a generative vision that advances the purpose of the United States? Like, so we essentially don't have any adults in the rooms in which they're needed right now. We have mostly folks trying to advance their own interests.

[00:35:35] Hector: Right. it seems like they're the ones who were, you know, they benefited from this track. they're at the end of the track and they're trying to extend the track as long as they can because I mean, they have to see, I mean, that's the only reason that they would be doing some of the things that they're doing is just to milk and squeeze that for all that they can while they can. because at a certain point you go, well, this can't last. I mean, all these people are going to. so many of the leaders are well past retirement age, you look at it if they were the leaders of companies, they would be to your point. they would have moved on a long time ago, but because they're in these, particular roles, they're well past their time, and it seems to be that the only reason someone would do that is because of the power and influence that comes along,

[00:36:24] Brandon: Yeah. I mean,

[00:36:26] Hector: that that should,

[00:36:27] Brandon: I mean, earlier today I was just talking with a former congressperson and they live a cool life. They get to think about really cool things, travel to really cool places, make really important decisions. And when you think about stepping back, what do you got, you're going to sit on your condo board.

[00:36:44] Brandon: You're just going to like drink yourself blind and play golf. I mean, that's way more interesting. And I, get why they want to stay. Okay. I would be confronted with that too. If I was 65 and I'm like, do I retire or do I like keep trying to do this super cool thing? get it.

[00:37:01] Hector: it seems like we can, like, move them into some sort of advisory

[00:37:04] Brandon: yeah.

[00:37:05] Brandon: Bingo.

[00:37:05] Hector: some sort of, like, you know, now you're the white hair, you get to sit up there and people who could, like some sort of transitory, probably not the right word, but yeah, some other phase that allows them to continue to be in the room, but perhaps not making the decisions.

[00:37:20] Brandon: Yeah. Yeah. And other cultures, other forms of governance have that where like genuine elders are revered and they are there to shape the future leadership and provide counsel. And we have some version of that in the white house where the president usually has all the former presidents on speed dial, like, Hey, China's doing this crazy shit.

[00:37:39] Brandon: What do I do? and so there is that to some extent. but the thing is like. You have two term limit in the White House, but Supreme Court's lifetime. Congress can be lifetime. it's frequently, you know, frequently not, but it can also be like 40 years, you can serve in the House and Senate, for most of your adult life the term limit conversation is valid.

[00:38:01] Brandon: We should start to have that because you can't have power accumulate. Or, we literally are at cross purposes with a nation of like, we're not all created equal if we're just going to allow more and more wealth and power to accumulate in the same 5, 000 East coast families. Like, I guess not what this place is about.

[00:38:17] Brandon: That's what Europe is about. We're about something else.

[00:38:20] Hector: Yeah, yeah, this is a really important discussion. I'm glad we're having it. Brandon, if people want to stay connected with you, find out about your work, get deeper in your work. Where's the best place to be able to

[00:38:30] Brandon: So you can go to, Brandon peel. com, that has everything kind of linked to it. can find me on LinkedIn, Facebook as well. if you want to be part of this United States. Purpose conversation, bisonmedicine. com is the name of the community book interview series that I'm nurturing there.

[00:38:48] Hector: tweet? We'll link all that up in the show notes and feel us can check that and get that there. last question, Brandon, in your opinion, what is the definition of modern masculinity?

[00:38:57] Brandon: So I don't know if it's all that different from just modern adult. and for me, that means somebody who is biologically developed enough, which, I think the neocortex matures in the late twenties, early thirties, has done enough inner work to discover their purpose and values. and is in community with others who are doing the same.

[00:39:18] Brandon: So that could be a men's circle, women's circle, and they're living their mission in the world. And so I would want that for a woman, man, and everything in between or beyond. so that's how I would hold it.

[00:39:29] Hector: I love that. I don't think that we've had, that answer even close to it. So I appreciate it. fellas, we want to thank you for sticking around with us today and hanging out. We'd be forever grateful for a rating or review wherever you get your podcasts. And if you know a guy needs to hear this, hit that share button, let's grow the tribe together.

[00:39:46] Hector: We always appreciate you hanging out. We'll see you on the next one. Later fellas.