What Happens When Work Stops Being Your God with Jason Heinritz

Jason [00:00:00] I wanna get rid of my pride wanna get rid of my ego wanna get rid of my fear I wanna get rid of my anger and my temptations and my struggles and, I just want to be filled with love, peace, joy, patience, kindness, goodness I wanna be bold I wanna be strong and courageous, all of that. And so Jesus is the perfect example

Hector Fellas, what's going on? I hope this episode finds you well, and I hope this episode leaves you better than when it found you. Today's episode is with a good friend Jason Heinrich, and I'm gonna be honest. We talk all about Jesus. We talk little bit about God, uh, mostly about Jesus. And so if that turns you off or that's weird you out, I would encourage you to turn the show off now or go find another episode that's more relevant.

Hector But if you have. open mind or if you have, an inkling of,is there for me in this, I'd encourage you to stick around because we talk about it from a guy's perspective, from a man's perspective. We take all the, there's very little religion that we talk about today. And so it's an incredible conversation.

Hector Jason is a, he's a father, he's a husband, [00:01:00] he's a business owner. He's an author. Very involved in his community, and leading, their spiritually. and it's just a great conversation for anybody no matter what situation or circumstances you're in. So, I'm excited to bring it to you today.

Hector Let's get into it. Today's episode with Jason. Jason. Welcome to the Modern Masculinity Podcast. It's a, it's an honor to have you here, man.

Jason Yeah, thanks, Hector. Excited to be here.

Hector Take us into your world. I always ask our guests to sort of talk about the challenges that they're sort of experiencing as a man.

Hector the load, the cross they might be bearing, if you will. because responsibilities, heavy is crown. Well, whatever that saying is right. But I think we as men put a lot on us. and sometimes we see that, things look may look perfect on the outside and we may have this image, but inside we're still sort of working through or navigating some things.

Hector You're a father, you're a husband, you're a business owner, you're a leader, a guy. Like what sort of things are you still working or, mucking through, today?

Jason Yeah, well, big question there to open it up, just to kinda get you in my world a little bit. So yeah, [00:02:00] we, so I've been married, almost 10 years now.

Jason We have a 6-year-old and a 3-year-old, and I'm a direct sales guy. I'm a leader for Cutco cutlery. So I've been doing that for about 21 years. I've been doing that virtually here. And then, we also moved out here to Seattle area from Wisconsin to help start a church. We've been pretty involved in our church for about 12 years out in Green Bay and said, Hey, we're opening up a location out in Pacific Northwest, you guys in.

Jason So that was a big decision, a big moment. Lot of training, fasting over that. But we moved out here about six months ago. so that, that was a big challenge. And then also, I've been on this kick for the last few years of. My, wake up Jesus people movement, if you will. I have a book and a 40 Forge challenge and a journal with that leads some discipleship groups.

Jason So that's everything I'm doing. So really, Hector to try to balance it all, has been, something I've been working on, I'd say, which get into. I've had a lot of struggles throughout the ups and downs of getting to where I'm at now, and there's [00:03:00] still struggles, but I feel like I'm in such a sweet spot right now where I really just filled with so much peace and joy.

Jason Because of some of the choices I've made over really the last few years of my life.

Hector so. think you may be the exception. 'cause I always come in and I go, everybody has it all put together and it's all, rainbows butterflies and such. is that still the case or do you still find yourself in moments of, I don't know what the words were. not quite despair, but fear or anxiety or trepid like, do you still sort of experience those emotions or is it sort of a, coasting, throughout the every day?

Jason I would say I still experience 'em, but I really don't have a lot of valleys anymore. I still have little hiccups in that, but man, when I was in the grind of, being a district manager and, so many things in the past when I was trying to build my own kingdom. And I, instead of just surrendering it was really a lot of pressure myself, in the past.

Jason So I'm 41 right now. so my twenties, I was partying it up, having a great time, working hard, playing hard, my faith, [00:04:00] one foot in the world, one foot out, and just building my kingdom. And then I had to settle down a little bit in my thirties, getting married, having kids. And so that was a big transition, Hector, of, Hey, I found my, faith.

Jason I've settled down a little bit, but I'm still chasing this idol of work being my idol, accolades, wanting to be loved, wanting to be enough, and feeling like my sales report was my determining factor of my self-worth. And so that was a struggle throughout my thirties, big time. And really just until, like three years ago, I basically took a demotion at work.

Jason I asked for it. and then, fully, like I got rebaptized fully surrendering and going, all right, God, I trust you. I'm actually gonna put you first. I'm not just gonna say you're number one and work as my idol and number one, but I'm actually gonna put you first and, trust in you and do my best still and let you take care of the rest.

Jason And then just trust along the way. And it's been so freeing [00:05:00] to just like take that pressure off. I still have obviously struggles and ups and downs, but man, I'm just, I'm in a sweet spot where I also, I mean, I've set boundaries and there's some other things we can get into, but there's things that have allowed me to get to this spot.

Jason But I still have room to grow for sure. But I feel I've kind of figured it out I feel like a lot of people have a midlife crisis around 40. I feel like I had a, a midlife awakening.

Hector Yeah. One of , The things about. being spiritual or don't know that religious, I wouldn't put, I wouldn't put like, just because you're religious, I don't think that you get this what I'm gonna say.

Hector But like, if you have that that connection with whatever you call it, source god, who, whomever or whatever it is that you're connected to, it seems that, so much of the challenges or the things that people would normally get caught up and hung up on. Don't seem to matter as much.

Hector Right. if, but it's only if you have that faith. Right. And that's, faith is like such a loaded word. but that's really, I think what it comes down to is this deep knowing that, and anything that I'm gonna say [00:06:00] after that is like, again, it's loaded. It's like, secure, safe or like whatever.

Hector I think that's so critical for men today because of how things are changing and the economy and the politics and, society. And you pick it, you pick a, An ally on social media or they pick a section of the internet and there's so many things to sort of be worried about or have anxiety, I've found that like I've gone through some shit and I'm like, wow, you dude, like, you didn't like lose it.

Hector Like you, it would've been very reasonable for you to like, have lost it and like lost control or like, given in and it's like I think back and I'm like, oh, how did I keep my sanity? And it was like, oh yeah, thankfully. I had like a deep connection to source God, like whoever, and I was able to lean into that when shit got really hairy.

Hector But if I didn't have that, like, I don't know what the response would be like, I don't know. But thankfully that was there and I'm scared for guys who are sort of my age and come up with it was sort of like hip to be an atheist when we were growing up. Like that was like the in thing to be, Mm-hmm. that is a [00:07:00] scary. place or like a scary mindset to have these days.

Jason Mm-hmm. I mean, yeah, just to think it's the world revolves around you and you earning income or status and there's no higher power. There's nothing bringing you through this, and it's You're just gone. I know. There, there's a lot of things that, again, loaded questions, loaded statements, but, there's a lot of uncertainty, right? And so, I feel like when you have a purpose and you look at the bigger picture and you look at that, it's more than just about you.

Jason And especially me personally, being a Jesus guy, when I'm like, Hey, this is just a little blip of a hundred years of my life. As opposed to eternity. Like, what am I living for? Am I living for this a hundred years on earth or for eternity? Am I trying to stock up more like in stocks in my wealth?

Jason Or am I trying to change more lives? Right? And so I think when you have that higher purpose, that higher power, that higher meaning in life and purpose, it just, a lot of the [00:08:00] stuff that would rattle you and worry you, you're like, that's not a big deal. We're gonna get through this. I'm gonna get through this.

Jason For sure. So I do think that's part of being a modern masculine man is having that, kinda that north star, if you will, that keeps you grounded through the ups and downs.

Hector Yeah, I remember, I was a, most of my identity growing up and, prior to graduating high school being an athlete and, I didn't know that I was gonna turn out five, six and like struggling to, to get over 160 pounds.

Hector But I remember seeing like successful athletes, saying, I give all glory to God. Tim Tebow was like one of the guys growing up, and I, he was big in college when I was sort of, playing football and all this. So he was someone, that we looked up to.

Hector And I remember thinking like, dude, what the fuck are you talking about? what the fuck does God have to do with you throwing a touchdown? Like, I'm like, it doesn't, like, I, it didn't equate in my head. and it's not that it like pushed me away, but I was like. It's fucking stupid.

Hector Like it's just so misguided not realizing that like, no, actually I was so misguided. [00:09:00] and it was only when I had kids and started to realize like, oh no, like how selfish was I actually being? how self-centered and conceited was I actually being to think that, I have con, I'm not in con like I thought I was in control of everything that I can, you know that I'm, this, I don't know.

Hector And I, I was just so misinformed and it sort of took me like. Life falling apart, marriage falling apart, like all that sort of stuff to, bring me to my knees bring me back to this point of sort of, again, salvation is like a big word, but it was like, man, like it did, it was like, it was a sort of a redemption.

Hector and again, that's another fucking loaded word,I can't think of anything else that properly describes that experience of being hopeless and despair the only solution was like getting connected to God source, ge like Jesus, people, whatever you want to call it.

Hector I think it's critical for guys, because without that North star, like where do they end up? They're gonna end up, out in the middle of the ocean. And, it's critical for guys at this time.

Jason I do find that we are [00:10:00] all searching for it.

Jason And I think a lot of guys, especially, we put so much pride in our title and our accolades and how we look, and we think that's what being a man is. And it's, being ripped and having all the girls and having all the money, but it's so fleeting. And when you get there or when you're experiencing of it, you're like, okay, well I just want a little more, it's pleasurable for the moment, but like.

Jason This isn't real, like long lasting. And so I find that, we're all trying to fill that hole, as I say, God shaped hole in your heart with other things. And until you actually find that, that connection, it's, it is fleeting and it's not enough. And it's why you see all these people who are rich and famous and wealthy and, popular and all that, that they end up committing suicide or overdosing.

Jason And so I actually found myself in my thirties. Because I was grinding it out because work was my idol. I would come home and I'd numb myself with a weed gummy or a couple drinks, and I would just go, I deserve to relax and, I need to turn off this work, this work brain. And [00:11:00] so that was a good decade of just doing that most nights of the week until my wife started calling me out a little bit and I was justifying that I wanted to be present and really I was just numbing myself.

Jason And I wasn't going to, like, for me, I had to switch it to going to prayer or going to worship, or, changing my mentality to where it wasn't a cool, five or six o'clock I'm gonna turn off my work brain with a weed gummy or some drinks, but I'm gonna present with the family, or I'm gonna, I'm gonna switch my mind to some worship music and be more present and surrendering, like whatever else I have to do throughout the day.

Jason Whatever didn't get done, doesn't matter. I'm gonna be there with my family. Not, I'm not just gonna vege out and numb out on the couch and say I'm being present. And so that was a big switch a few years ago that one of my mentors at church, who really challenged me on and, I finally submitted to it.

Jason And it's been a huge, refreshing, just moments in my life now for these last few years. but I think, yeah, I think we're all trying to [00:12:00] find, ways to cope with. Going through the ups and downs, making sense of it, trying to build our own kingdom, and it just doesn't work.

Hector You mentioned earlier that like praying and fasting was something that sort of helped through this.

Hector I'm mm-hmm. I'm, I'd love to position it or I'd love to, for you to try and give a perspective. That removes maybe the religion from that, because I think that people ought to hear, they hear the, praying and fasting and it's like, oh, here comes the Jesus talk. And I also, think that it's like the most practical thing too.

Hector So like, on both sense. So can you speak to the practical side of it and then also sort of, the connection side or the spiritual side that happens when you're sort of doing that?

Jason I'll do my best. I'm no pastor or anything, or I'm no expert. But what I would say, for me, it's hard for me not to include, Jesus in it.

Jason So I will take out religion from it and if you're on here, you're listening, and you have that negative, [00:13:00] negative feel about religion or Christians, that's okay. Understandable. There's a lot of humans out there. There's a lot of, we're just, we're all human doing our best.

Jason And, sorry if you had bad experiences with that. However, for me, really what it's designed is, it's less about rules and regulations. It's more about relationship. And so for me, when I believe as a Jesus person, that, Hey, when I pray, I'm actually, I'm literally sending angels on assignment.

Jason I am, I'm putting it up there. And it is, there are people, there's angels coming to heal, angels coming to help. There's a spiritual battle. Short? Really Good

Jason There's a real spiritual world out there. And so you can feel it whether you're, religious or not. You can feel evil. You can see evil. You can also see good and feel good.

Jason So take the religion out of it. You can feel that. You can see it. And so when I'm praying more, and that means I'm submitting my own control and going, Hey, I don't got this. Lord, I don't know. Can you please help? Hey, can you send the this love to this person? Can you heal this person? Can you help [00:14:00] me through this tough time?

Jason And you have that prayer just, it's almost like this fresh air that comes in of like, yeah, it's right. I'm not in control and I have this hope. Going up to being sent on assignment to help with whatever's going on, personal life, work life, family life, any of that. And then to go with that Hector that when you fast the intention, so there's some health benefits, to it as well, but.

Jason It just reminds you to pray more really, and to spend more time instead of trying to control everything, trying to accomplish everything, it's, Hey, I'm hungry, or, Hey, I really want, and you can, fasting, can anything, can be social media, it can be, other stuff, but it could be abstaining from, sex, drugs, alcohol, all kinds of stuff.

Jason But food's a common one because we desire it a lot. And so you get hungry a lot, so it triggers you to go, I'm hungry. Oh. Let me not only pray that I can get through this and that, I can make it through to [00:15:00] this tough challenge, but also it almost just reminds us to pray more and be in more relationship with our creator.

Jason And so for me, that's how I'd explain it, with, I don't know if that's really taken out religion out of it, but that's more of a relationship.

Hector Yeah, well I think that, you're actually the second guy, one of our previous episodes, Donvan Owens, he is actually, he's going to, he reached out about, he's starting a fasting sort of group, and it's just, it's really interesting seeing how guys are coming online to the power of.

Hector Fasting because I think what it also does is it sort of gives you a sense of agency and not really control. I don't like the word control. 'cause I've, I think I've grown a grown up where I'm a recovering sort of con control freak. but it gives you agency in the sense that if you can choose and or if you can sort of.

Hector Go through that battle of not eating right. It sort of gives you strength that you can do other things, right. And it sort of, creates a landscape or an environment for you to sort of build this muscle of perhaps faith. Right? Which is kinda what we're [00:16:00] going back to. and it's sort of in the face and a very, prescient feeling.

Hector 'cause it's like, hunger, like you said, is a very, it's a very active, feeling that if you can sort of work through that in my. Experience, I feel like I can do more, right? And I don't know, maybe that is source or God coming through me. And I also feel like it opens me up to more.

Hector Like it opens me up to more of the divine. Right. What, however you wanna, say that, right. whether that's insights or love or feeling right? Because I'm not saddled down with all of the, this food or chemicals or whatever, right. My, my body's in a little bit, the cleaner state that, that seems to allow more good in, in a variety of different forms.

Jason I think it releases chains like we're, a lot of us, especially as guys, we feel like we're dependent on caffeine or food or scrolling or drugs or alcohol, right? And it's like, Hey, I'm actually not. So it does give you personal power and a reminder like, Hey, I can do tough things. I can abstain from this [00:17:00] stuff.

Jason I'm not addicted to this bad habit. and it, and what's great is some of these fasts, they turn into identities and they turn into a lifelong. Fast, if you will. It's just abstaining from something that you know wasn't good for you. And then food's obviously good for you, right? But some of the fast, it's like, I don't need that in my life.

Jason I was so caught up on that and I was so foggy from it, and now I'm so clearheaded, clear minded, my body feels better, my mind feels better. So there are a lot of practical benefits. Again, I'm not the expert on fasting. I saw my experience and really anytime we go into a tough challenge. Hector, I'm always doing, my wife and I were all doing, we're doing fast.

Jason So to start the year, every year we pretty much do a 21 day, fast. before her change of transitioning out of teaching, we fasted and prayed two together for 40 days, and sure enough, she got this great opportunity to run a coffee shop. And then therefore now, we are where we're at in Seattle because of getting involved in the church and, getting promoted and all that.

Jason And then also. not no food, [00:18:00] no. So basically, so it depends. We've done liquid fasts, we've done Daniel fasts, we've done, oh yeah. So, sure. So liquid fasts is just having liquid. So just like water smoothies, spark and water soup, things like that. That's what, right now we're on liquid fast until dinner.

Jason And then also I'm not doing social media. That's been something that I've been caught up on, a lot. I've done, things in the past of like, no, no drugs or alcohol. a Daniel Fast is basically, it's basically like, like fruit, nuts and vegetables. There's a story in the Bible of basically Daniel who said, I, I don't need all this food.

Jason I don't need all this. I'm gonna stay clean. I'm not gonna have all the alcohol. I'm not gonna have all the fats. I'm gonna have all this stuff. And, his guys were way stronger than the rest of the army. And they're like, all right, that, that diet is great. So that's a very, short version of that.

Jason But, but that's what the Daniel Fast is. we've done no, no coffee and no, no [00:19:00] caffeine. I did a water fast for like three days. That was a short one, but yeah, they're between 21 and 40 days. And, I've not done a complete, like 21 day no food fast. But that's next level. Yeah, anytime I'm going into a tough challenge, or we are together as a couple, we'll do that together and it brings us together.

Jason So practically, it's like we're both in this challenge together. We're both wanting some breakthroughs in these times. So, alright, we're gonna not only submit and surrender, we're also gonna be aligned and in unit together during these 21 to 40 days.

Hector And how do you navigate the actual process?

Hector I'm curious about two things. The first is, practical things to, especially dealing with kid, dealing that's not the right word, especially when having and raising kids. like, and all the sort of, I'm a hangry person sometimes I'm like, there's times where I'm short, short with my kids.

Hector I'm like, oh, I just need to eat. And so I'm curious how you guys sort of navigate around that. And then, another thing that I'm curious about is the. if there are moments of slip up or [00:20:00] if it's like, if those 21 days go perfect, or if there are times where, you slip up and how you might, or how someone might, navigate that.

Hector 'cause I think like when they do that, they go, oh, I blew it, or I, I failed or whatever. So how do you work through those? if at all, if they ever come up?

Jason Sure. So to handle your second question, yeah, there are mess ups and the problem is calling it a mess up. You have an intention and some people just quit it and go, oh shoot, I messed up.

Jason But there are certain situations where it's like, hey, I'm literally at this special event and this special dinner, this special thing that's happening once like a year in banquet, which, for work, it's like I'm not just gonna sit there and watch everyone eat and sit over here and pout.

Jason And be like, oh, woe is me. I'm fasting. It's, there are times where it's like, cool, there's gonna be like, my intentions are pure God knows my intentions. And so there might be some days where it's like, cool, it's a 21 day fast, but it's 22 days because the one day I slipped up, or sometimes I'll restart like a 75 hard, right?

Jason It's [00:21:00] like, shoot, you gotta start over. So that's also happened, but it is about, it's, and again, that's where it goes into, it's less about the religion and the rules and the regulations, more about what is my intention here? What is my desire and am I focused on progress? Am I focused on perfection? If I'm focused on perfection, I'm trying to be this tough guy and be perfect and be all, it's like that probably isn't, one, it's not long lasting probably, and it's going to, it's just not it.

Jason You're doing it just to like check it off. Just to do instead of actually, transformation. And then when it comes to, you, you mentioned like kids, like what doing around Yeah.

Hector Like the pr, like the practical, the practical aspects. Are there things that make it easier or ways that you guys prep or prepare or, yeah.

Hector now that you guys have gone through a number of these things, are there, I don't know if I'd call 'em best practices, but things that you do now because you sort of, learned along the way.

Jason Yeah. not have kids. yeah. During kids, it makes everything a little tougher. 'cause you have to be aware, like, I'm making them [00:22:00] lunch every morning for school and I'm, I, we're making them food and we can't have it.

Jason So just knowing that's just gonna happen. It makes a little more tempting, but also, I can wait a little bit longer. so I guess based on whatever fast you're going for. You need to have intentions going into it. So I clearly have laid out like days going into it of, okay, I'm doing this, I'm committed.

Jason I'm letting other people know. It's nice when the whole church is doing it because you can do it with them, but specifically my wife. 'cause if we're on the same food fast, it's gonna be very difficult to navigate that and we're gonna cause each other to, to stumble on that. Also having clear written out intentions of, Hey, here is what I desire during this fast.

Jason Here's what I wanna hear from God. Here's what I wanna have as breakthroughs. here's what I'm struggling with. And going in with intentions, because otherwise it's just a diet. It's, that's not a breakthrough, moment. And so having those intentions going into the fast, that's why I've said, Hey, anytime we're gonna into a tough decision.

Jason Like before we moved out here, man, Hector, , [00:23:00] I had struggled to move 30 minutes north. In Wisconsin, when I got married and here I could not believe I was considering moving the family out states away from Wisconsin to Seattle. So that was a lot of prayer and fasting. And then, we got answers and we got clarity, we got peace.

Jason And so, before any huge decision or huge moment, we definitely liked to, to fast as a unit.

Hector Yeah, I, we're bringing sort of religion in a little bit, but I, it seems like all of the big breakthroughs in the Bible, like were proceeded by like a fast, Moses, Jesus, like all these people there.

Hector It was a big part of these spiritual breakthroughs. And what's interesting is like there's been this huge disconnection between. Spirituality. And I think, religion is a part of it, but we live in this modern world where we're so disconnected from that, that I think that if we start to bring those things back in, it just might open us.

Hector Like, if guys just start to open themselves to Jesus, to God, to, to whatever, pick your, pick your word. [00:24:00] and then that happens at scale. Like I, I am challenged to imagine what that world looks like when men. when the majority of men are living in faith mm-hmm. In whatever faith they choose, but they're living like that.

Hector Like, I think that we live in a totally different world and, mm-hmm. And it's scary. and also it is, I think it's attainable for guys, it's like, it's very possible. there's no, like, there's nothing really standing in the way except them.

Jason Yeah. I just think it's gonna take away a lot of guys, we struggle with ego and pride.

Jason And really it's a lot of past wounds really, if we get, if we really go deep, a lot of past trauma. But it's if you're submitting and surrendering, it's like, okay, well, it really, really takes away from that pride and some of that ego that a lot of guys are trying to, like flaunt or to cover up some interim securities.

Jason So. Yeah, I agree.

Hector We were talking, before we started recording about, how interesting it was. It is, or like the phenomenon that sort of happened over the last, I [00:25:00] guess really like two or three decades of like political correctness where people didn't wanna mention the word Jesus, or like if you mention Jesus, like they were the first people to get canceled.

Hector Right. It was like, Yeah. Oh, he is, he's a Jesus person. Right. Which is why, Tim Tebow doing what he did back then was so, he was such a. He stood out so much because it was such a deviation for the norm. I think we're, we are getting away from that place. and also it's just a very interesting thing that people hear Jesus and they go, oh, fuck that gets just a bunch of hooey.

Hector and I think there are some people, and like you said, humans who use it for their own devices and also again, like remove all of the spirituality, all of the religion. I'm like this guy, like , who can actually say something bad about Jesus?

Hector Like what is there to say about him as the person, the man, the what? Like whatever. and so the sort of, the. I don't know, call it the hate, but like the aversion to it all is [00:26:00] sort of strange as I reflect on it, when like, this is clearly the roadmap. Like this is the blueprint like this.

Hector Even if you were to call him a guy, like even if he's just a guy, I don't believe that, but like even if that were the case, why wouldn't you wanna follow. His exam, why wouldn't you wanna do what he was doing? And, it's just a very interesting phenomenon. I'm glad more and more people are coming, coming around to it.

Hector But how do you see, you said like you're a Jesus guy, which I think is a funny thing to say and I'm glad that you can say it so you know, freely and openly, but like, how do you see or frame, or what is your perspective on the role that Jesus plays in your life?

Jason Yeah, he's everything.

Jason it really is. And again, without getting, I guess too spiritual, maybe we will, I dunno. But just when you think about him as a human, again, I'm not a pastor, I'm not a preacher, but, my perspective and my experience is like, you look back, he was, it's fact, it's history. He was a real person. And so when you look at how he, so if you talk about leadership and [00:27:00] masculinity, he took.

Jason He had tons of disciples, hundreds of disciples, but he had 12 main guys he poured into for three years that changed the world. The Bible is the most selling, highest selling book. there are so many counts. We don't have to get into like a bunch of the Bible stuff, but like there's, so, there's thousands and thousands of accounts of him and what he did and what he accomplished.

Jason There's like when you look at some of the other, like previous people or wars or things that happened hundreds if not thousands of years ago, there's like three documents and we're basing this history and some of the teachings in school off some of these like. Things that apparently happened, but there's no, we, no one was there, but there's these three documents talking about it, but there's thousands of Jesus and people fufu it.

Jason So even if they don't believe in the religion, spirituality part of it, you have to understand he was a, he was an amazing dude, a loving guy. He changed the world. And so, for me, he is everything. [00:28:00] he's my ultimate like masculine. Mentor, if you will. And it's like, what's so cool about the Bible? There's so many things in there.

Jason Like what he, for each. Now again, there's prescription and description, there's a lot of weird stuff in the Bible. There's a lot of things that, it was just the world back then. It was just things that were happening, like a history book. It's not God saying, I approve of this and this is what you should do.

Jason But when you just talk about Jesus, that's why I say I'm a Jesus guy. And why our church says that too is because you can't like, You can be turned off to a lot of, Christians per se. And there's a lot of hurt there. And there's a lot of hypocrisy. There's a lot of, there's people trying to do their best with what they know, and we're all imperfect humans.

Jason And so the unfortunate thing is people will. Think of a church or a Christian and put their aunt who, who hurt them, who says, who's a Christian or a church that, again, churches aren't perfect. They're all just trying to do their best as well. And it's like, [00:29:00] unfortunately that church hurt or that person, their life that was just this, maybe they brought politics in it too much or they just.

Jason It would, it just, it put a bad taste in their mouth. So that's why I like saying a Jesus person, because he was an awesome dude and he did amazing things, worked miracles, did all that. So when I think about him and what he represented and who I want to be as a father, who I want to be as a husband, who I wanna be as a leader, it's all there.

Jason And he didn't, he was tough. He was tough, but he led with love. He was a servant leader and talk about, leveling people up and creating a movement. Wow. So I wanna follow that guy. And, I, I say too, and it's a church term, but I want to continue every day, Hector, to be less like me and more like him.

Jason I wanna get rid of my pride, wanna get rid of my ego, wanna get rid of my fear, I wanna get rid of my anger and my temptations and my struggles. And, I just want to be filled with love, peace, joy, patience, [00:30:00] kindness, goodness. I wanna be bold. I wanna be strong and courageous, all of that. And so Jesus is the perfect example in my, my opinion.

Hector Sort of the word that we've coined here on this term, on this show is called, integrated masculinity, which is mm-hmm. embodying the traditionally masculine things of strength and providership and that sort of thing. And also these other, early on this show, it was interesting that people sort of, the.

Hector Associated these with like feminine or women qualities. And I've never done that, which is things like patience and compassion and empathy. And I'm like, those just seem like human qualities, not like man or woman or masculine or feminine. and I can't think of a better example of someone who embodies that.

Hector Right. And I'm curious, you said he's tough. 'cause a lot of people they think, oh, Jesus is this wimpy person, turn the other cheek like ball, the me will inherit the earth, which I think is misinterpreted. but they see, they have this like. I think he's soft. Right? Or at least that was a perspective that I have of like, this guy's a wimp, this guy, [00:31:00] and

Jason yeah.

Hector And you said he's tough in your mind, what do you go back to or what are you referencing when you think that like, he's a tough, like he has, he was tough.

Jason Yeah, for sure. I mean, there, there's a few things, few examples. so when it comes to him being tough physically. he was, he did not stand for things that weren't true.

Jason He would flip tables, he would call out, Pharisees and political leaders, and it was never in a negative way. Like, like, like nowadays, people just hate on each other. It's like, let's talk about what are we talking about with the facts, and let's talk about what's true and what's not true. It's not hate on someone or this political party or this person.

Jason How about just talk about the, truth. And so like, when it came to that, like he was not afraid to stand his ground. He didn't look for, trouble, he didn't look for, starting a war, but he was grounded on truth and it wasn't gonna, he was going to love as much as he could until there was some kind of stand your ground.

Jason Okay. And talk about with your words. [00:32:00] With what he said was crazy. Talk about being bold to go up and share things that were just so culturally, know, co you know, anti-cultural as in, counter-cultural of what was going on those days of treating women right? And about less about these rules and regulations to talk about, the, the, whitewashed tombs of, people are just whitewashed tombs, some of these Pharisees where you look good on the outside, but inside it's dead.

Jason So he was very quick. I wouldn't say quick. He's very bold in calling out what was okay and wasn't okay without condemning them, without saying, you're a horrible loser, but hey, here is the truth. Here's where you're at. Here's what I see. Here's the way you should go. When I think about parenting and I think about, in the workplace, I think about, as a husband, I'm gonna have to speak some tough truth.

Jason And there's gonna be some things that you get, a little worried about saying, or that you have fear in. But hey, what is truthful? What is gonna be best for my kids? What's gonna be best for the people I lead? What's gonna be best [00:33:00] for, whoever I'm talking to? And I need to be bold enough and courageous enough to speak truth to them, to help them out.

Jason So I'd say really like with his, his, where he stood and his with his words too. Like, he's not going in there, going on, going to battle. But his people did for sure, a lot of tough warriors. But, yeah, him as a person, it was more with his words and his, his truth. Mm-hmm.

Hector Yeah. It seems like that ability to hold boundaries and, my, that idea of, flipping the table in the temple is like, it seems like a not, or like to someone who's not really.

Hector I don't wanna say educated, that seems demeaning, but who isn't up on, on the sort, like, that was like a huge deal, right? to go in there and just start, yeah. Being a, I think they call 'em like an iconoclast, right? But like to go in and to go against, like you said, the culture or the institutions in the organizations.

Hector And I think that. if our world is going to move out of the place that it's in today, we are going to need people to, and this sounds really loaded, but we are gonna [00:34:00] need to need people, men, mo. As well. Right. Especially I think everybody, but like to follow his example, because if you, the

Jason table

Hector for sure.

Hector and also there's a, there's an acceptance and an understanding and a sense of compassion that you don't see with other major religions. And I think that they have their, they're great and they're, they have their, especially the Abrahamic ones Right. mm-hmm.

Hector Judaism and Islam. Right. It just seems if those were to be the culture, there is a, like a separation or a distinction between us and them. Right. It's like if we're Muslim and they are everybody else, we're Jewish and they're everybody else. I don't think that's like a winning equation where it was always, when it comes to Christianity and Jesus like, it's like everybody can come to the table like everybody is welcome.

Hector And you don't see a lot of that when you scroll an X feed or you scroll f whatever the social media, you look outside, it's very much an us versus them sort of thing. and I think [00:35:00] that he sort of set the example of how we can not combat that. 'cause that sounds like a, like a violent term, but how to defeat that opposition.

Hector Right. and his way was like, through. Through love, through non nonviolent sort of stuff. and I think that's sort of an example that can lead us out of this place where, people are rioting and people are upset and like, rightfully so. I just don't know that they're, the way that they are trying to find a solution or that they're, their method of solving it, is actually gonna work out, And, and so I'm excited and, And encourage that more and more people are coming to, coming around to Jesus. I think there's a big, there's a big resurgence with Gen Z about them finding, religion, starting to go to church. and like thankfully, because I think that's what's going to be needed, if we're gonna move from this like crazy place that we found ourselves in.

Jason Mm-hmm. It's crazy out there, man. It is, getting wild for sure. And it just, they're just lost and they're searching for their identity. They're searching for what's right. And I feel like they think by being more violent or [00:36:00] louder some reason, that's gonna make, that's gonna be helpful.

Jason those trolls on social media, it's just, what are you doing to make. They build people up and make, places better and make your area better. I feel like, something, I've thought about is some of the, like, almost like not being famous, meaning like some of the most influential, long lasting, people are like a great neighbor with a great family, and,

Jason being a great example, raising up great kids, serving their community, serving their church, inviting people. It's like they may have such an impact on generations to come from the example they lived as this quiet, a person that no one ever knows about, but they had that impact on those 10, 20, 30 people in their sphere.

Jason And I think, Yeah. Too many people are just trying to shout from the mountaintops with their fingers and, yeah. And it's not creating long lasting change. Mm-hmm.

Hector Talk to me about [00:37:00] how you are, what you're doing with your kids to sort of, introduce them to these concepts, introduce them to these ideas, things that you're doing to sort of model, this, so that they are, they're coming up in a mm-hmm.

Hector In a place or have a perspective that's sort of grounded in these things?

Jason Sure. A few things. Well, one thing I do every morning is called a sacred start. so for a couple hours every day I'm doing prayer, I'm doing journal, I'm doing exercise, I'm doing, I'm reading the Bible and I'm, writing down affirmations from scripture.

Jason So I do that every day for a couple hours and that they wake up and see me doing that, is really powerful. So now they're doing some of that, really well. My 6-year-old is my 3-year-old. Doesn't really know what's going on, but they see it, they notice it. So I'm trying to model, being a great husband, being a great father, getting in the word, being healthy and doing all that to really start my, my, my day every day.

Jason So that's one way. And then explaining it. So now my son, he is on a, there's a [00:38:00] kid's Bible, app. And so he's like on a streak on that, and he is all excited that he is, there's 70 some days in a row. So it's trying to model that and then show him why and teach him how. So that's one thing. another thing is I'm really, since releasing my addiction and my idol of work, I mean, I work about 28 hours a week now.

Jason I only work between nine and four and like I only schedule appointments, so I don't do any like this podcast and haircuts and chiropractors and all my work is only scheduled between nine and four because that's when I drop my boys off. Or they're coming back and we pick 'em up, around four. So it allows me also to play with them afterwards and have play, there's a lot of studies on the importance of, of the male figure being tough and rough with the boys and understanding that in their development.

Jason So we'll go to the park and play sports a lot. and then also at night, trying to stay away from screens for sure. Because that's a problem right now. somewhat of mine. But, as a 6-year-old, they want that iPad all the [00:39:00] time. and then just reading before bed, saying prayers before bed.

Jason my wife and I really try to share with them, what we're doing in the church, and we do a lot of prayer. we're bringing them to church on Sundays as well, and they're there early and staying a little bit late as we're setting up and as leaders in the church as well, trying to, do our thing.

Jason they're there a little bit longer, so that's fun. But what I've, what I've also tried to do, Hector, is so I was raised. With a lot great parents. they did their best. But there's a lot of more of the religion part of it, of like, do this because I say do this because this is what the church does or vote this way 'cause this is what Christians do.

Jason And I just really resisted that and I'm like, why? Give me a why. So, I've really been trying to explain. My wife and I to them as here's why we believe this, or here's why we do it this way. And here's again, the reasons behind it. Not just because here's the rule or here's what we're saying, but here's the reason behind it.

Jason So having those conversations, and they both go to public school again, they're only in, they're in a Montessori [00:40:00] daycare and, and a public kindergarten. But, we're able to have those conversations and have some tough conversations with them already. So I think that's been. Yeah. that's the, that's been what's helping, that's what comes to mind.

Hector Yeah. It's interesting. one of the things that I, so I, I have a, it's called a gem on Gemini. It's like a GPT agent thing, right. But it's called like our bedtime story writer. And, it's sort of programmed to, to write for a six and 7-year-old. And, for a few weeks we were doing bible parables and, it was cool 'cause of, we had, we stopped because we sort of, ran out of like the big ones. And so we sort of went back to our normal stories, but my son was like, can we do Bible stories again? And I was like, fuck yeah. I didn't say this, but in my head I was like, fuck yes, we can do Bible stories again. Of course. because I did 16 years of Catholic school.

Hector It was like, it was very much forced and it was, do this because or else, and so, you know that works until it doesn't. And so I'm excited to sort of bring them in and [00:41:00] like you said, give them perspective and understanding about here's the why behind it. and then also I realized that there is a time when I'm not going to be able to protect them from these ideas or from these, influences.

Hector And that the foundation that they have now is going to be what allows them to sort of stand in their own. Truth when those things happen because you look at, again, social media or whatever, and it's like there is like demonic shit out there. Like there is like \, crazy stuff out there that.

Hector Even. Even stuff as simple as like, we were watching the football game the other day and we don't watch a lot of like tv. We'll watch some movies and stuff. We don't generally watch any tv. And definitely like very limited commercials and I wasn't really paying attention and this like, pharmaceutical, thing came on and it was like, and.

Hector It was you. the side effects were just going for like 30, 45 seconds. And I noticed my kids look up 'cause they're like, what are all these things that, like, they're talking like, what are all these things? And my son gave me was [00:42:00] like, what is, and I'm like, we're gonna cut, just turning off, we're gonna mute.

Hector Like we're, but these influences that are out there, whether they're things like that or even more sort of demonic sort of stuff. I think it's important for guys to recognize that is out there, that there are those sort of dangers and I don't know that we're going to be able to eliminate those, but we can do some things to sort of steal in the sense of like S-T-E-E-L, like to harden, to reinforce, to protect the kids so that when those things come along, they already have a grounded perspective.

Hector They're already sort of grounded in truth and those things aren't able to really grab a hold of them. I'm, I feel a little bit more encouraged about my kids, but I'm scared about parents who aren't, being intentional with this and the sort of, effects that they're gonna have on the kids, or can't have on kids, years later.

Jason mm-hmm. Yeah, I remember in college going to Whitewater. yeah, some of the ones most Wild and out were some of the most conservative. Catholic Christians growing up, but their parents just put 'em in a bubble and it's like, you can't just save them from the world. You have to explain [00:43:00] through these. And again, having that base and that truth and that foundation for them, and then hopefully you did well enough as a parent where they make their own good choices, but you can't protect them, your whole life.

Jason And so, I understand going to private school, I understand homeschooling, I understand all of that, but it's just, if you're just trying to. Put in this bubble. They're kind, you're kind of, you're stunting them for when they go out to the real world. Yeah. There's so many tools and resources and there's a lot of things that, whether it's YouTube kids or there's like a Minow app, which is great.

Jason There's so many good resources out there now, or that's even good wholesome. Not always just Christian, but just good wholesome content that you can find out there. Because I feel like there's a lot of parents over the last decade who realized. Yeah, there's a lot of evil, there's a lot of bad stuff out there that my kids can be exposed to online.

Jason where are some guardrails, for them. But I think if we have, we protect them too much,they're not getting a chance to grow or face that tough conversation or have that [00:44:00] unfortunate, thing they see at school that you know you well, we can't

Hector protect 'em for forever and we're not gonna be able to be next to them at all times.

Hector At all moments.

Hector Jason, this has been a fantastic conversation. I appreciate you coming on and I'm excited that you joined the West Coast crew. I think that you're, I think you were always meant to be here. and I didn't mention it, but you look 10 years younger than the last time I saw you, it was a couple years ago.

Hector Yeah. So you, the fasting or whatever's working, all of it's working. I got, two questions for you. The first is if people want to, Get connected with you, find out what you're up to. I think you've got some resources and sort of a community that you're sort of building where, where can people go?

Jason Sure. So the site is wake Up jesus people.com. So it's wake up jesus people.com. Some of the resources here, I'll flash down here, but here's Wake Up Jesus people life giving disciplines to awaken the warrior within. So I have a book and a journal. It's all about, waking up early to start your day with Jesus and write, but also waking up as a warrior to get off the sidelines and [00:45:00] get in the game.

Jason so that's the small gist of that. and there's a journal with it as well. And I also a 40 forged challenge, which is basically a 40 day, It's basically if you know it's 75 hard, it's like a Jesus version of 75 hard. So that's all at wake Up Jesus people.com. Otherwise, in social media, just my name, Jason Heinrich, but that's where you can find me.

Hector I love it. And we'll link that up in the, show notes for you guys as always, and maybe there's some G out there. Jason, my last question is, in your opinion, what is the definition of modern masculinity

Jason following the way of Jesus? And it's kind of a cop out, but it's leading with love. It's tough love leading with love, being a servant leader, not being afraid to stand your ground.

Jason And it's not the flashy stuff on the outside. It's not all the muscles, it's not all the cars and all the money and all the accolades. it is leading your family and the people who are in your sphere, to be better.