The 4 Non-Negotiables Every Man Needs to Master with Donovan Owens

Hector [00:00:00] Fellas, what's going on? Hope this episode finds you well and I hope this episode leaves you better than when it found you. Today's episode is with Donovan Owens and he is the founder of the Life is Reps community. He's a podcaster, a soon be author and someone who has just had success in his own life and is now all about helping guys like you to succeed as well.

Hector And uh, it's a fantastic conversation. We really get tactical on, on. This episode, you know, sometimes the interviews can get a little out there and a little philosophical, and I think that that's important to be able to, to have those conversations. And also, uh, we need conversations that can just give you the tools and give you the, the how-tos right here.

Hector And, and this is one of those. So, um, I know that you're gonna enjoy it. It's a really, really insightful conversation. Donovan is a man, he is a, a fire starter and, um, I'm just, uh, it was an honor and privilege to have him. So enough me, y'all. Let's get into today's episode with Donovan Owens. [00:01:00] Donovan, welcome to the Modern Masculinity Podcast.

Hector It's a honor and a privilege to have you here.

Owens Yeah, man. Hey, thanks for having me. Uh, I've been looking forward to this since we scheduled this, so I'm glad we're here to do this right now.

Hector Yeah. Take us into your world as a, as a man, as a provider, as a business owner, a a father, um, you know, a partner. All, all these roles that you play.

Hector Uh, I find that sometimes the, you know, the quickest way to, to relate with guys is sort of to share like a, you know, I'm, I'm going through that too, you know, sort of thing. Um, what sort of challenges or what sort of, uh, you know, crosses, if you will, are, are you still carrying as a man today?

Owens Man, huh, that's a great question.

Owens And actually I'll lead with, I'm definitely an incomplete man. Um, and still on this growth path, even at 47 years old. And I love being on [00:02:00] that path with all the challenges and everything that come with it. So, um, I'll give a little context. Uh, I was a rebellious teenager, uh, because there were just things that, you know, with the way I was.

Owens Raised, which I, I was raised in a very loving household, but there was just some things that I, I questioned, um, uh, the way kind of society was at the time and even is now. Like, I just questioned things and wonder like, where did these beliefs come from? And so in my teenage years, it led to me kind of acting out and searching for my own identity, uh, as a young man.

Owens That led to a lot of trouble. Um, you know, I got into all kinds of things like little tried, you know, the gang activity, all the drugs, all the things. And, um, there was actually a time where I ended up getting kicked out of high school because I got caught, uh, on lunch, um, [00:03:00] smoking weed on lunch. And, you know, they came and got me outta class and said, Hey, we're gonna put you in this, this special class.

Owens The troublemakers go and I'm, and you have to wear an orange shirt. And I was like, nah, I'm not doing that. And at that age, I think I know more than any adult around me, right? I'm 16, 17 years old, so I was like, I'll just drop out. So I dropped outta high school when I was 17. And, uh, my mom being the woman of faith that she is and the stability that that she is, she shipped me off to my, my aunt's house.

Owens And when I was there, I got my driver's license. I graduated from high school, like some things were put into order, and then I came back, you know, four or five months later and got right back into, you know, the same friends, the same activities. And so what I learned through that process early on was that the search for identity is.

Owens Sometimes very messy. Very messy, [00:04:00] and it, it leads to a lot of chaos. And so it goes a step further. I got married, young, had two kids young, so by the time I was 21, I had two kids and I was married, and so I was married for 14 years. So there was a point about seven years into that marriage where I knew that this is not the relationship I'm supposed to be in.

Owens And so I wrote it out for seven years just because of all these things I had in my head. These questions like, what is society gonna think? Like, what will my parents think? What will my kids think? Um, and so I went through that and just stayed in it. But I became very distant in that relationship and ultimately I got to a point where I picked up my ex-wife from work one day and I said, Hey, you know what?

Owens I think this thing is over. And without hesitation, she said, I think so too. And it was just a conversation that we both avoided probably for seven years, that that could have [00:05:00] been had. But that moment led to the darkest moment of my life because I went into the only thing that I would know in my life as a depression.

Owens And so for six months, I was in this very dark place and it led to me one day sitting on the edge of my bed with my pistol next to me, uh, considering taking my own life. Remember I have two daughters. So luckily there was a moment in that dark space that I was in where, uh, the very spiritual thing happened and I just saw the word gratitude floating down out of the sky.

Owens I remember I had my pistol sitting next to me. It's sitting right on the bed. I have my right hand sitting on it, and then all of a sudden, this word gratitude starts to float. Through this whole situation that I'm in, and it comes down through my head, lands in my heart, and this is all like a visual thing that I'm going through.

Owens And I'm like, oh man. And then I can see both of my daughter's [00:06:00] eyes looking at me. And so that moment changed my life right there. I had enough hardship. I've tried enough things that were like, um, on my own without, you know, the spiritual guidance and the the systems. And I decided at that moment, if I'm gonna do this life the way that.

Owens I really want to do it. It's gonna be important that I figure out how to be a man. And at this point I'm like 33, 34 years old, how to actually be a man, how to tap into the, the mastery of what masculinity really is. And I was gonna have to do that work myself. And so I got together putting on, put, putting together a, what I call a system of values, principles, pillars.

Owens Um, and mindsets to live by, and I've been refining that over the last 15 years. But without those hardships, I would've never considered that I needed to create my own systems [00:07:00] in my life or I would fall prey to the systems that have been created for me. So that's the long answer to your question.

Owens There's a lot of hardship in there that created where I am today, which I'm blessed to be,

Hector and I'm sure. Guys, see you. You've got, you've got a new podcast, I think. I think there's a book in the works. I don't either There was or is like there's, you're, you're putting out all this good in the world and I, and I think that the, the challenge that sort of gets created is that there's this image that you, you've also all got it all figured out still.

Hector Mm-hmm. And you, you said at the beginning you're, you know, you said you're an incomplete man and, and I'm. I'm curious for you because so much of the, the challenge that guys go through is that we think that we have to be this, this perfect hardened image, you know, image. And that's that so much of the insecurities and shame comes from [00:08:00] us thinking that everybody else is better.

Hector You know, everybody else doesn't have these issues, everybody else isn't going through this. Um, what, what, what part of that story still. Do you like, catches up with you today? Or how, how does, do, do those things that you were, you know, forced to deal with back then? Do they still pop up today? Or, or how do you find yourself navigating, um, some of those challenges, you know, 15 years later?

Owens Yeah, no doubt. Um, one of the, the masculine mindsets that I came up with is called healthy humility. And the other one, another one is ergonomic ego. And those are things that I have to deal with, uh, every day and approach every day. Otherwise, what happens is, by default, my ego is very unhealthy. Um, there's desires, there's distractions, there's lust.

Owens There's all these things that as a man that, uh, [00:09:00] I get to wrestle with. And so. Even the darkest time in my life that I told you about where I'm sitting on the side of my bed, those, those thoughts still come back to me sometimes where it's like, man, what is this really all about? And, you know, am I, am I a good enough man?

Owens Do I matter to the people around me? Um, and these are very real questions I ask myself when no one's around. And so my best answer for you is that Daily, daily. It's important for me to connect to the energy of mastery and masculinity. Otherwise, my default is not healthy for me or anyone around me. And I've recognized that.

Owens Um, so I'm not immune to the challenges at all. And, and every day I realize I'm incomplete and that there's work to be done.

Hector Well, I'm glad you you bring that up because I realize that in my sort [00:10:00] of inner work and journey. I get to this place sometimes where I'm like, damn, I thought I got past that. You know, I got, I thought I dealt with that.

Hector I thought I, I thought I left that in the past. You know, I thought I overcame blank. I thought I over, you know, stopped that habit. And, and to your point, it's like, no, you, you sort of have to continue to, to beat it every day. You know, I'm reminded of my, uh, my. College roommate, um, you know, decided to get in, you know, to get into AA and, and, and go sober, right, right.

Hector Where we were, um, like roommates and it was like a big thing. And since then he's been, I don't know what, almost 20 whatever, whatever that is, you're sober and it's like, uh. It's really interesting that, that for them, they say like, they just do it one day at a time. And at the beginning I didn't, I didn't realize the, how profound that was or how significant that was, but it's sort of what you're saying in that like, you know, every day you gotta wait up, wake up and reconnect to, you're talking about these energies that you're, you're [00:11:00] reconnecting to, but it's a, it's a daily thing.

Hector It's not something that, you know, you do once and then all of a sudden it's done.

Owens Yeah, no doubt, no doubt. It's, I gave somebody this example the other day where, um, you'll notice that a lot of the topics I talk about are mastery and masculinity, because those have been the things that, those energies have changed my life, and I call 'em energies because they're not things that you can, you can't achieve 'em.

Owens Right? Every day there's a commitment to wake up and tap into and connect to the energy of those things to be that man. And so I told somebody the other day, I was like, yo, like Michael Jordan. Was a masterful basketball player,

Hector right?

Owens When I think about Michael Jordan, now, he's no longer a master at playing basketball because he doesn't connect and tap into that energy.

Owens He doesn't practice that every day. And, um, and again, I'm, I'm assuming, I don't know what his lifestyle is, but just to understand the, the con context here. [00:12:00] The choice to wake up and connect every day to whatever it is that adds the most value to your life and your world around you, um, is an important choice.

Owens And if that choice isn't made, then defaults happen. And most humans that I know don't really enjoy their own defaults. And so that's what puts us in a place where there's always work that we're doing. And the quicker, what I found is the quicker that I could realize that there's going to be work every day, uh, that's when I could start to find joy in understanding discomfort and the, the art of delay and those types of things that are built into this journey.

Owens And, and, you know, that takes work in itself just to get there. Um, and then once you get there. There's work to be done. So it never stops

Hector on a practical basis, you know, on a, for, for routines or, you know, for someone, for a guy who says, okay, that, that sounds like something I'd want to do. [00:13:00] But it sounds pretty vague in terms of, you know, reconnecting with the, the energies on a, on a practical basis or a checklist basis.

Hector Like what, what are some things that that can actually help a guy do that?

Owens Yeah, man. So we all have a morning. Right. Even if you work overnight and you sleep all day and you wake up at 6:00 PM to do it all over again, that that's everybody has a morning or a start to the day. What I have found with the thousands of people that I've coached in my own personal journey is having what I call a mastery morning is, um, essential.

Owens There's a few key things. A Master mor, a Mastery Morning sets you up to achieve three quick wins. Okay? You get a physical win, you get a mental win, you get a spiritual win. So I'll give you an example of, [00:14:00] uh, what a Mastery Morning could look like. You wake up. First thing that you experience could be you just being grateful for waking up.

Owens Okay? But even if that doesn't happen, that's fine. You wake up, you're moving around, just start to drink one liter of water and I'm giving you my routine. I drink one liter of water to give myself inner bath. This is my first way to really start to appreciate myself. Okay? 'cause I know. I haven't had water for however long I've been asleep.

Owens So, um, it's essential. Then I go into what's called mobility minutes, and this is me just checking in with my body. So if anybody were looking in my window, they would think I was crazy. 'cause what I'm doing is I'm just moving around, I'm checking in, I'm rolling my wrist, I'm rolling my neck, I'm bending, you know, doing squats, seeing, checking in with my body to see how things feel that day.

Owens And then I'll go through five or 10 minutes of minutes of mobility, uh, in whatever area feels like it needs the most work. Okay, so now I'm [00:15:00] activating my body. Um, and then what I do is I sit down to write. So my goal and my mission is to write a thousand words every day. I don't always get there, but I do my best to write a thousand words a day.

Owens And it can be something that's very specific to a project I'm working on, or it could be just stream of consciousness. Let me just write, get whatever's coming outta my mind. Um, and then I'll read five pages of a book that's relevant to what I'm working on, and then I'll go out and I'll walk or run five miles.

Owens This is my mastery Morning. So with all those things in place, and I actually, when I get back from the walk or run, I'll sit down before I get into the rest of my day and I'll do what's called intentional quiet time. A lot of people call it meditation, so intentional quiet time is anywhere from two to 10 minutes of just.

Owens Taking in with intention, um, the man I choose to be that day, [00:16:00] uh, see myself facing challenges, how I would deal with those things, being resourceful, um, being radically responsible for all the things that I have to do in my day. And so that routine right there gives me a mastery. Morning. I got my physical win.

Owens I got my mental win. I got my spiritual win. And what I found is that anybody who's willing to tap into that. Then your energy is gonna be different the rest of the day because you spent your first part of your day taking care of you so that you can pour into all the other things that, um, are important to you the rest of the day.

Hector Yeah, I think all of that is fantastic, but I can't help but, but just point out that you just slipped in the five mile run at the end you just said, ah, and, and we just do a five mile run on top of that, which, uh, that

Owens is not a prerequisite. You don't have to do that. And for somebody else it might be a five minute walk, you know?

Hector But I think it's a testament to, to the work that, that you've done and the, the, [00:17:00] the consistency through which you've done it. Because I've. You know, and, and maybe you can speak to this, because what I've found is I go through, I go through bouts and spurts of, of discipline, sort of in anything, but definitely with regards to my morning routine.

Hector And as I'm looking back on it, it's, it's the, oh, the kids are sick. So let me, let me use that as an excuse to sleep in. Oh, you know. Whatever, whatever is super stressful. Like, like I just find myself, like, find my reasons to, to fall off and then once I'm off, it's like getting back on is, becomes sort of the challenge.

Hector And, and maybe that is just the game is just like you fall off the horse and you get back on. But that seems to be the, um, the obstacle for me is remaining consistent enough to make any, uh, you know, really, really significant headway in, in regards to, I don't know. Writing a book or, or these sort of long-term projects that that can come from, from really being disciplined, [00:18:00] uh, over a long period of time.

Owens Yeah, that's real. Like we're all, all of us are colliding with reality every day and all of our realities are, are different. And so. Again, what you're speaking of talks more about the importance of why systems thinking and having a system for yourself is important. Because when human behavior or defaults do try to kick in, which they will, uh, there's a system there to hold up the more valuable pattern.

Owens And so creating. What I call the reps operating system, um, is important. Like reps, you see I have the shirt on. So reps are basically the small actions that you can take in the moment, uh, that that matter toward whatever your vision is. Okay? So reps stands for repetitive excellence, produces success. That first word is important, repetitive, and if something's gonna be repetitive, [00:19:00] it's important to create a system around it.

Owens And there's a lot of things we do every day without even thinking about it. All of us have a system created right now that whether we've consciously created it or not, it's there. And so now that we have that awareness, what's important is taking a look at the inputs that are going into the system because the inputs that are going in.

Owens Are definitely creating the reality that we have in our lives, which is different for all of us. So if you, we can go deeper. If you wanna go into some of like, what the

Hector system looks like. We

Owens can do that.

Hector Well, one of the things that I, one of the things that I noticed just in hearing your story is that it seemed like your, well, there was a conscious or subconscious, uh, intention.

Hector There was, there was a focus on your environment and changing your environment and, and being mindful of your environment. And, or, or at least that seemed to play a role in your, your sort of evolution. And I'm curious, you know, when it [00:20:00] comes to things like a morning routine or things like repetition, what role does, does your environment, whether that's physical or sort of, you know, emotion, like you can take that however you want, but the, you, the, the space that you're in and that you, you you are working in, um, what sort of role does that play in, in your evolution?

Owens Man. I appreciate that you asked that. 'cause I never, I just connected the dots. I never considered that when my mom shipped me off to my aunt's house when I was 17 years old and rebellious and definitely going down the wrong track that that was a change in my environment. And I don't know if that subconsciously stuck with me.

Owens But today I talk about environment a lot because it does affect everything. And so, you know, I keep talking about a system, but SA system does create these environments around you that, uh, help to, to take the actions that we know are valuable. [00:21:00] So, yeah. Um, environment is everything. You,

Hector you, you've done something unique though, in that you've been able to.

Hector Be sort of live, sort of a, I don't know if I'd call it like a nomadic lifestyle, but you've been able to, to travel a lot and move around and, and one of the things that I sort of fall into is like, man, I've gotta stay. If I start to travel, that's when my habits go out. Right? Or if I, you know, don't have my, my routine or my, you know, my supplements here at home, or whatever it is.

Hector And so I, with regards to, to also environment, it seems like you've been able to also remain flexible in that regard. Um, as well. Is there, is that a skill that you sort of had to develop or how did that, um, play out for you as you were sort of, you know, moving around and traveling and sort of living this, this sort of, I don't wanna call it non-traditional 'cause that has a lot of, it's a loaded word, but like, you know, not the typical waking up Yeah.

Hector And working in the same place every [00:22:00] single day.

Owens Yeah. It, I mean. It definitely like moving around. Definitely requires that, um, that I'd be more mindful because it would be very easy to say, all right, we're gonna travel here, we're gonna be here for three months. And then I look back over that three months and I didn't get any fitness in, uh, I was eating bad.

Owens And, um, all, like, all the things that were valuable to me as a, a man went out the window and all of a sudden I'm asking myself, why do I feel this way? Like, why is my energy down? Why is my drive off? Why is my ambition not there? Why is my body soft? Like, these are are the things, and I've, I've gone through those and I've had to experience that in my younger years.

Owens Um, and you know, I got up to 230 pounds. I was, I was sloppy. And this was a long time ago, but I had to experience that in order to realize, hmm, there are some non-negotiables that have to be in place no matter where I am. And no matter where I go, this toolbox of [00:23:00] non-negotiables goes with me. And one of those is my fitness.

Owens So the first thing I do when I get anywhere, no matter where I'm traveling, um, is I'm looking for where can I get my workouts in. Where's the gym? Um, I'm, I do, I'll call a gym before we get there to see, hey, what does your seven day pass look like? Those types of things. So I'm doing this recon work. Um, what kind of environment am I gonna be in?

Owens Am I in walkable distance to a bunch of different restaurants? What kind of restaurants are they? Is there a grocery store available? It's just these non-negotiables that get put into place after working through a system that didn't work for me. Uh, to get what I wanted, what it worked for me to do was to get up to 230 pounds and be, and, you know, fat and sloppy and the recognition and having to go through that and knowing I didn't wanna feel that way is what prompted the change.

Owens Um, and I've seen a lot of, uh, men that I've coached where, [00:24:00] you know, they're busy executives, they make a ton of money, they're successful on paper. Um. But the, the success on purpose is missing because they don't feel good about themselves when they look in the mirror. Um, they don't feel good about how they're showing up in their relationships.

Owens They're not doing any adventure. Uh, and so again, the reps operating system allows for me to have these four power pillars in place no matter where I go. I want to adventure. I wanna be doing work that's worthwhile. I wanna be involved in real relationships, and I want to have my strong self intact at all times.

Owens Those are non-negotiables. Um, and so once a man gets that, it's a toolkit that goes everywhere.

Hector We got into the R. Um, and what's, uh, what does the e stand for in reps

Owens Excellence?

Hector Tell me about excellence and how that plays into the system.

Owens Hmm. When you think about doing a rep, [00:25:00] imagine you're in the gym, right?

Owens And you're doing a bench press. There's lots of ways to do a bench press, right? You can take, you can take that bar off. You can, you know, say, all right, I wanna get 50 reps. You can just start throwing that thing around. Your whole body is moving, the bench is moving. Like your, your weights are about to fall off.

Owens We can call those reps, right? But they're not reps of excellence. Now if we're looking to engage the entire body and get the most out of that movement, then a different way to think is, alright, I'm gonna take this one rep at a time, take this bar off. I'm gonna create the necessary tension in the body as I come down with the weight.

Owens I'm gonna lower it slowly, squeeze in my back on the way down so I can get the benefits of the back doing the work during this exercise. And then as I press, I'm gonna press strong. Full lockout, keep the chest up and really engage in the muscles that are supposed to be engaged. That's a rep of excellence.

Owens Now, here's the thing, [00:26:00] the 50 reps just knocking 'em out. They feed the ego really well. Oh, I got 50 reps. The reps of excellence, you're not able to do as many of them, but the quality of those reps yields so much more. For a longer period of time, you avoid injuries, uh, you build more muscle. And this is the case, in the case of doing a bench press, right?

Owens But this, that, that excellence transcends everything we do throughout the day. How can I have excellence in my conscious communication with you right now? The rep I'm doing right now, having a conversation with you, I want, I wanna bring excellence to that, right? If I'm scattered, if I go pick up my phone and I start, you know, doing things on my phone.

Owens You know, I shut all the lights off and my lighting's bad and my, I turn my, you know, my microphone off. Well, we're still getting the rep in. We're still here, but it's not an excellent rep. So excellence is a mindset that you bring to every interaction with everything throughout your day. So it [00:27:00] requires presence.

Hector Yeah, I am. I love that and I love excellence for a lot of reasons. And I've shared a little bit, maybe I shared this with you, but I grew up and I still am a, a, a Raiders fan, you know, and Al Davis, the owner is, uh, you know, a commitment to excellence. And, and over the last couple of decades, you wouldn't say that we, uh, we sort of exemplified that.

Hector But I always, I always enjoyed that as a motto, right? Because there's not a lot of teams like that, that sort of. That have a model like that. And I love excellence over perfection. And I'll, I'll be honest, that it never, you, you provided some clarity in that, uh, as, as you were explaining this bench, you know, press rep and I always thought that, you know, excellence was just sort of a mindset and it was sort of this nebulous, you know, intangible thing that you just sort of aspire to.

Hector And I was like, okay, that's what it is. Great. But really as you were talking about it, you know, it, it, it's. It appears that excellence also [00:28:00] requires, uh, mindfulness, right. The ability to be in the moment because it's, it's that one rep at a time sort of thing. And then also there's a, there's a, a sense of, of education or being informed or attention to detail, right.

Hector You were, you were talking about and working through all of these, you know, parts of, of proper technique that if I was not. Educated in, in weightlifting or, or in exercise or whatever, and I didn't know to do those things, then I could be mindful and I could try. But if I don't have the technique to back it up, or I'm not as skilled enough to back it up, then, then the output and the effect is, is lessened.

Hector Right? And so you really crystallize that. It's not just about aspiring to be excellent, but that there are actually, you know, parts of it that. That, uh, requires someone to improve and inform themselves, and then to be intentional with that on a, on a individual moment [00:29:00] to moment sort of basis.

Owens Yeah, no doubt.

Owens Excellence requires presence. You brought that up and it's not, and also requires resourcefulness because let's say you are going to bench press for the first time and say maybe,

Hector um,

Owens or let's, we'll use this. Anything, say you're gonna do anything for the first time as a man, right. And you're not quite educated on it, but you have a vision of like how this can be done.

Owens Well, that vision right there is, is already tapping into resourcefulness, but then you get to a part where you're hung up, you're like, nah, I'm not really sure what to do. When we're tapping into excellence in that moment, we start to receive information, right? Like, alright, here's, here's a solution. I, I could do this.

Owens If I'm like, really there and thinking about it, then things start to emerge. Uh, so, so excellence provides that. What I found for a lot of people right now in this distracted, fast moving world where, um, you know, we're getting notifications here and, um, you know, social [00:30:00] media button is under our thumb before we even know it, and we're scrolling.

Owens We're, we're being taken out of the presence. And it's very hard, and I would venture to say impossible to have excellence when you're not in this moment. Um, but there's so much information when you are here that provides that excellence. So. Uh, yeah. Presence is key.

Hector Yeah. What about p? What does P stand for?

Owens Produces, right, so it's just the output of this rep system, right? It produces, uh, so repetitive excellence produces, and then the S is success. Uh, so I'll just kind of, I'll lump these together. So producing success. Making it very clear that that success is an outcome of the system you've created in your life, and success is something that you get to define on your own.

Owens Your [00:31:00] success could look completely different from anybody else's, and it should, that's the only way forward to feel the way it needs to feel in your life. There are the i, these ideas of success that are out there, uh, in society. How much money do you have? What kind of material possessions do you have?

Owens How much do you get to travel? Like all these, these external things, which are fine, they're fine to have, but I know plenty of people who have that success on paper. But when it comes to fulfillment, meaning, and purpose, which is the success that happens on the inside, right? The peace, the truth, the love, those, that's it's fleeting.

Owens Look up, just stay on my outside. Don't go in my closet. Stay on the outside because I got everything groomed just right. But if you, if you go in the closet right, if you go inside and look at what's going on, there's, there's a void there. And so what I'm encouraging men through this reps [00:32:00] peaceful rebellion that I'm building is, is to really look at.

Owens Repetitive excellence produces success. Define what success means for you so that the reps you put in align with that success. Make sure that success is meaningful to you. Make sure you're the one who designed it, um, and that you're working, that the worthwhile work you're doing every day leads toward that.

Owens Uh, so that's what reps stands for. If you have any deeper questions, we can go as as deep as you want to.

Hector Well, what's interesting for me is, yeah, and I, I'm only a sample size of one, but I'd imagine that a lot of guys sort of fall into similar, similar patterns in the sense that if I get too wrapped up into the social media feed, or I get too wrapped up into what's happening out there or over there, or with whomever, you know, and these people, and that people, and all the, the uproar that is so easy to sort of get caught up into, [00:33:00] I lose.

Hector My ability to focus on what I define success as. It just, it seems to me to be har, you know, harder to focus on those. 'cause I start asking questions, well, damn, what's the point? Or what's it gonna look like? Or what, you know, all these sort of not so helpful questions, frankly. And so I, I think your, your system is so, is so important that if you are, are focused on excellence, it's sort of, it keeps you.

Hector It keeps you honest and, and, and again, focused on what's important and, and away from the, the drifting that can come so happen when you don't have a system like this or you're not, you know, being repetitive in, in your, in your habits. And, uh, because otherwise, I, I feel like the, the world and how it's going right now is, is so easy to just sweep people away and, uh, and help them lose what's, what's really important to them.

Owens Yeah, it it, what you're bringing up, I call society's [00:34:00] strategic strategic system of traps. And this is not to place any of us in a victim role at all. It's just to have to have an understanding that, you know, every story has an enemy, right? Or, or a pit, or a hole. And so the enemy to our masculinity and our mastery and the excellence we wanna bring to this world is being lost, fat, distracted, and all the things that this strategic system of traps is creating, right?

Owens It's creating so much convenience, so much comfort, and so much unhealthy dopamine that men are losing themselves too. All of that. And so my mission is, and I know this is something that's important to you, is to call men back into the deepest, truest version of themselves. Come back home. [00:35:00] Come back home.

Owens It can be scary because there's a mirror to look in. There's an honest conversation to have. There's truth to be told. But on the other side of that is this version of you that. Has been scratching and clawing to get out, has always been available. Uh, just needed permission and space and so, yeah, I mean, let's, let's put the reps in one rep at a time,

Hector right?

Hector Because it, it, another thing that seems to be, you know, what I really enjoy about your sort of system and, and how it, how I can see it being effective is that it also incorporates a, a spiritual aspect as well because I find that if that's. If that's missing in these sort of things. And in instances where I've sort of tried to, to take this on and just personal development my way through it, there becomes a, a moment where it feels very, very lonely.

Hector Or there's a very, you know, you, you sort of run out of, um, [00:36:00] you run out of faith, frankly. 'cause, 'cause to your point, you're like, we are, we are incomplete. We are, we are, you know. And also I think that's, that is a, a misinterpreted perspective in the sense that we're not, we're not seeing how we are aligned with source or God or whatever sort of you wanna call.

Hector And so if you have that included, then whilst you're going through all of this, you know, like that's, that's a source of strength as well. Or that's the faith is, is still there. And so while it's, you know, hard getting up or it's cold outside or like all the sort of excuses that, that we sort of make. Um, it becomes a little easier to push through that when there is a whatever sort of spiritual aspect, you know, and guys can decide that for their own.

Hector But when that's a part of it, it seems to be a little more sustainable.

Owens Most definitely. Um, because like I was saying earlier, like the, uh, us humans have this default, right? And, um, it's that default has been, uh, established through all of this [00:37:00] indoctrination that we've had for however long you've been alive, which is different for all of us.

Owens But, um, you tapped into what I call the three levels of living, right? The physical level, the mental level, the spiritual level, which is why that mastery mourning is so important because it taps into all three of those and gets 'em dealt with first thing before ever interacting with another human. Um, so yeah, that spiritual side is important because it's at the top of the stream and it affects everything downstream.

Owens Um. It affects the mental, how the thoughts turn into actions, which the actions turn into the physical, so it's all connected. And so the importance of everything I'm talking about today is systems thinking is crucial for any man who wants to master his own masculinity. Be the man that matters to yourself first and then to your world.[00:38:00]

Owens And when I'm talking to you, I'm talking to myself again. We have to tap in and do these reps every day.

Hector Are there any other favorite concepts or terms I, I, I love that you've created sort of definitions and given, um, you know, given some, some structure to a lot of the things that we guys sort of go through.

Hector Are there any other things that we haven't touched on today or even ones that are worth going into more that you think are relevant to, to guys who are listening?

Owens Um, one of the, the biggest challenges that I found for men is conscious communication. And there comes this point where we hit our rock bottom or we go through our challenges on whatever it may be.

Owens Where what I've seen is there's change that has to happen. And like you said, we can feel like we're in a silo and doing this change on our own. And this [00:39:00] is where conscious communication comes in. Being able to talk openly with the people who are around around us, who, uh, you know, other men in our lives and say, Hey, look, here's what I'm going through.

Owens I just want you to know that you may see me being a little bit different. I'm working through this. Uh, that's conscious communication. If you're married, go into your spouse and say, Hey, look. You know, you may have seen me showing up like this. What I'm working on is this, like listing things out in a way where you're taking responsibility for it.

Owens You're not looking for somebody to mother you or take care of you. What you're looking for is to be open about your situation and also be resourceful in your solutions so that your, your spouse, your wife, can feel safe with you. Um, and so that would be my biggest invitation is. As you go through anything that requires change, be sure to consciously communicate with everyone involved [00:40:00] so that there's not a lot of resistance on your path.

Owens Otherwise, people just may not understand what it is that you're doing, and then they're gonna apply their own, uh, their own experience to it because all they can see is from the outside they didn't hear anything from you. Um, so that's my biggest imitation.

Hector Yeah. I think that the, you know, guys and I, I'm talking to myself mostly, but I know guys can do all the inner work that they, that they want.

Hector At a certain point, they're gonna have to interact with another human being, you know, or there is the, they can, they can go and, and be a monk in a cave somewhere, but, but I think most guys who are listening to this show, that's not the life that they. They want, right? They want the tools to be able to, to, to take into the world and sort of be a man, you know, of the world.

Hector And, um, I think that the communication part is, is so crucial, right? That if we, if we do all the work and then we blow it when we're trying to communicate it, it's, it's like [00:41:00] fumbling, you know? And on the baton pass, right? And, you know, in Olympics races it's like, it's, it's the, the critical moment, um, of, of exchange.

Hector And so I think you raise a really good point there.

Owens Yeah, no doubt.

Hector Any, um, favorite, uh, whether it be modalities or, you know, you've, you've probably a adjusted or innovated on a lot, sort of make them your own. But whether it's workout routines, um, you know, habits, books, um, you know. Exercise types. Um, you, you seem like someone who's very practical, so I'm curious if there's any other tools or techniques that are favorites of yours that guys might, um, enjoy from hearing about.

Owens Yeah, so at the beginning of every year, what I do is, uh, I write down a word that, uh, is important for me, uh, to. Integrate into my [00:42:00] identity so that my identity is kind of shifting and growing every year intentionally. Right. Um, and so a book that I read at the end of the last year was called Liminal Thinking by Dave Gray, and I don't know, have you read this book?

Owens No. Okay. So the idea of liminal is that it's a, it's a threshold, it's a doorway, it's an empty space between two different things. Okay. The way Dave Gray explains it is that that's the space where chaos happens because not enough people are willing to explore what's really going on in that space. Now, lemme make this more real.

Owens Um, when we talk about beliefs, the way beliefs are created, uh, there's a very structured path to the belief. And then once a belief is created. There's a lot that's going on inside that bubble of beliefs that creates a lot of tension between two [00:43:00] humans. So here we go. So a belief, the first step to the belief is that you have an experience, right?

Owens You have some kind of experience in life, and then you get to the next step where you. Pull whatever is relevant from that experience, and you use it for whatever your needs are at that time, which we all have different needs. Okay? And then from there, whenever you find what's relevant, you go to the next step and you start to make a assumptions.

Owens You make these assumptions, and then once you've made enough assumptions, you go to the next steps and you start forming conclusions. Once those conclusions are formed, then a belief is established. This is the five step pattern to get to these beliefs. Now, here is where it gets real challenging. Now you're standing on [00:44:00] top of this belief, okay?

Owens Solid ground is here. You're standing on top of this belief pyramid that you've built, and you believe you're standing on solid ground. And so what you do, because a belief is so deeply ingrained, is that. You without even thinking about it, you invite and kind of pull other people in who kind of believe the same way so that y'all can reinforce each other.

Owens Now what's being created is this, this bubble of obviousness. Like isn't it obvious that this is the way it is? Right. And you and all your people who have gathered together are, are believing this, not understanding that there's also somebody else who took five steps. They've got their people and they have their own bubble of obviousness, and all of everybody is just reinforcing, it's called self-sealing logic.

Owens You're just sealing that bubble off tighter and tighter because your beliefs, your, your actions and your results [00:45:00] are confirming that you're right. Well, what liminal thinking does is it shines a light between down, back, down those five steps to see, to ask a question like what? Possible. If I believe different, if I create a different belief, if I just start to look at it, right?

Owens If I have a conflict with somebody, obviously that person has a belief, I have a belief. And if we're not understanding each other, it's because we're, we're self-sealing our logic inside of our bubbles of obviousness. So if somebody can take charge and say, Hey, you know what? Let me shine a light on my own belief system to see where can I be better here.

Owens Um. That concept has really changed the way I communicate with other people, including my spouse. Um, and just it's really expanded my mind to all the possibilities that there really are because my possibilities are not the only one. Like, there's, there's endless possibilities. [00:46:00] So if you haven't read Liminal Thinking, uh, I would suggest picking that up.

Owens And it's a very short read. I got you got the book right here, short read, small book. Liminal thinking by Dave Gray. Uh, create the change you want by changing the way you think and, uh, very powerful and actionable concepts.

Hector Yeah. I love those, those ideas really that allow you to go in and, and shift things at the, at the root, at the foundational level, at the belief level.

Hector Right. You know, because Yeah. James Clear sort of talks about how habits are. They're basically emblems or I don't know what he uses, but they're manifestations of your beliefs, you know? And so if you wanna change a habit, then you have to go into the, the base level to the source code of beliefs and start there.

Hector And so you just really, uh, shine a light on a great tool to, to get in there and, and, uh, not only navigate for yourself, but also with other people too. [00:47:00] Donna, I got two questions for you. The first is if people wanna find out about you, get more connected with you. Um, the life is rep's community. What you're doing, where's the best place for people?

Owens Yeah, I really, I only have two spots. Um, I deleted all social media on September 25th of last year. And, um, so I'm into these grassroots conversations and, and talking one-on-one with people and being on podcasts. Uh, so if you want to see what I have going on, you can just go to life is reps.com. Um, just like it sounds, uh, and then.

Owens If you want to check out the newly launched podcast, you can go to youtube.com/life as reps, and that's the YouTube channel. And, uh, I'll be putting out a video every two weeks. Right now the mission is to get into a weekly rhythm. Um, but I'm not being forceful with that. I'm really just being conscious about, uh, the energy and the quality of what I'm putting out.

Owens [00:48:00] So, um, that there's value there. So those are the two spots.

Hector We'll link those up for the listeners as always. And uh, Donovan, last question for you. In your opinion, what is the definition of modern masculinity?

Owens Oh, modern masculinity. Um, modern masculinity is the arc of being that man that matters.

Owens I think it's important for a man to recognize that within himself first and then to be able to apply that to his world, which is not the whole world, it's his world. Uh, so that would be my definition right there. Simple.