Most Men Do the Ritual. Almost None of Them Actually Live It with Dodge Feeler

Dodge [00:00:00] something we're not doing is we're not bringing men into adulthood. there are tribes that whenever a kid turns 13, they would knock his tooth out and stick him out into the wilderness and let him learn how to be resilient by himself, and then he, you know, he comes back understanding responsibility.

Dodge And it's just, it's not happening. I mean, you, you hope that you're gonna get some of that in sports, but it is up to the fathers to find ways to bring them into adulthood.

Hector Fellas, what's going on? I hope this episode finds you well, and I hope this episode leaves you better than when it found you. Today's episode is with Dodge Feeler, and he is the founder of a telehealth medicine company, and it's kind of interesting 'cause I sort of shit on that industry throughout the whole, interview.

Hector But he is someone who I think stands out among the industry because we don't really talk about, the science aspect of things very much. We, we talk about heart and soul and spirit and all the reasons why those things are important for a guy, a father, a man, husband, partner, whatever it is that, whatever role that they're filling, you know, how that actually, you know, supports and aids.

Hector And, uh, it's a great conversation, a good one that, [00:01:00] uh, I'm looking forward to you enjoying. So without further ado, let's get into the today's episode with Dodge Feeler. Dodge, welcome to the Modern Masculinity Podcast, man. It is, uh, it's great to have you here

Dodge Hey, Hector, thank you for having me here. I truly appreciate getting to, uh, spend time with you and see where this conversation goes

Hector It's always funny that the listeners don't get to, like, see the mad dash that happens the, before the recording actually, because sometimes that's...

Hector Th- there's sometimes where that's the, uh, some of the best content doesn't get recorded, and so I try and hit the recording button as, as early as I can, and then also there's just, like, you know, shit that gets in the way. But I'd love to throw it to you. Maybe it's that, maybe it's not, but what's real in your world?

Hector What's, you know, what's bubbling up or what's, you know, what is, what is consuming a lot of Dodge right now?

Dodge I'd say probably the, the biggest thing consistently taking up my time, which is what I, something I've chosen to do, and that's parenthood. You know, I [00:02:00] spend, spend my time with my family, and then obviously my business is a close second there as I build it and create something that I feel called to bring into the world.

Hector Yeah. It is such a different world that we live in,

Hector I look at my life so different from my friends who are single with no kids, 'cause I'm like, "You don't... We can't even..." Or like, I think you, we said in our f- pre, like previous phone call, like our brains are not even the same. Like we, there is a, I can understand you, but that was a previous me that frankly had to die in order for this, person to continue to live.

Hector and then even for my friends who are married and either thinking about getting kids or I have a friend that's having their first one, and I'm like, you know, like, okay, there's, there's kind of sort of ladders on the rung of ma- of, you know, manhood is sort of how on the show we've come to, you know, talk about it.

Hector And it's so true that life is so different at each rung that it's really hard to r- [00:03:00] to... And maybe you can relate up, but I don't know that you can really understand until you're sort of in the throes of whatever that is.

Dodge I completely agree. You know, I, I was actually previously married for 10 years with no kids, and then obviously I spent plenty of time single as well. And my sister who-- her oldest daughter is 16, and my-- I have a seventh-month-old, about to turn eight months, and she would always say like, "You just don't get it.

Dodge You don't understand." I would kind of get upset or triggered or just it would bother me. And then I go through it all. You know, like to start Parenthood, I met my current wife, and her child was three at the time, and I immediately just recognized the need for me to go all in in this relationship, and my brain changed.

Dodge You know? What's important changed. That drive to be so successful and all that mattered as a business and how you make money, it quickly shifted. and even during that time when I met her, I had gotten into some psychedelics, and I'd started kind of playing around in the spiritual marketplace, and I thought that was it, you know?

Dodge I was on my way [00:04:00] to enlightenment, which at this place that I'm at now, it's-- I'm not convinced there is any light- enlightenment other than the basic realization that we are, you know, in the image of God, or as I like to refer to it as the divine spark. And while I still like to kind of play off in consciousness a little bit, I'm really spending most of my time of how do I bring my vision down here to Earth and the struggles and the tough things that come along with that, and how do you work through that stuff without grinding your life away and then actually enjoying the one chance you get to be here.

Hector Yeah. I remember in my 20s sort of going on this personal development, which was sort of wrapped... I think my, white knight syndrome wanted to make it about personal development and all... But it was about making more money. Like, it was at the, at the root of it, that motivation was how, how do I get better as a person so I can make more money?

Hector And climbed that mountain. I've talked a lot about it on the show, but, like, climbed that mountain and realized that, like, oh shit, this is not the summit I thought I wanted to climb. I'm at, I'm, [00:05:00] I've, made more money than... like, all those sort of things, and it was just the r- the bottom of happiness, right?

Hector It really made me realize that, I, I did all of the things I said I wanted to do, you know, by like 24, 25, and it was like I'm not even an inch closer to feeling how I thought that I would feel when I got here, and so then, so then I was like, okay, you know, I, I realized like, all right, so let's climb another mountain.

Hector and I think the challenge was is I thought I had... Going up that, you know, that summit, which was the parenting and the relationships and the white picket fence and the, you know, happily ever after, American dream, whatever that is, it was like as I was on the way up, I thought again, this is it.

Hector This is the mountain. This is the one that I'm gonna climb, and then I'm gonna get to the top and, plant my flag and set up my chair, and, like, whatever it is, right? Like, I had just this idea of, like, there w- there's going to be a time where, oh, like, eternal bliss, you know, is sort of reached.

Hector And then at, like, the moment I s- I, I really, I, I distinctly remember, like, walking out on my grass, probably a few months before [00:06:00] my r- you know, my relationship just really started to crumble, at least, e- externally. Like, there were a lot of internal signs and, there's a lot of pointing to it.

Hector But I remember thinking like, "Wow, I've got it. Like, I've got it all," right? Right? the beautiful wife at the time, the great kids, the nice house, the wonderful community, like, all of the things, and I'm like... And, and maybe I had an inkling, but I was like, something is off. this is not...

Hector Like, al- also I realized that there was, there was, it was, like, even that felt hollow. even that I was like, "I've got this," and still I'm, there was something miss- You know, it, like, didn't feel how I thought it was supposed to feel, And so the universe coming along said, "No problem.

Hector We'll take care of that. We'll, we'll kick you down the mountain and give you another summit to climb." And so now i- in your, to your point, it's like I think it is an endless amount of summits, and it's like it's, it's about enjoying the one that you're on, right? Know- Like, a- with all that comes along with it, knowing that it's here for a [00:07:00] time.

Hector all of those things, but how can we get to the place where we both understand that this is a summit and that this is a moment, and it's like living in between those two worlds I think, to your point, is the dance of life.

Dodge Absolutely. Yeah, I mean, I, I love that you're using mountains.

Dodge I'm actually in the process of working with my wife for me to get to go to the mountains by myself, because that's often, much like Jesus went to his own, deserts or wherever he was at to regulate. It's also kind of just a, a chance to rewrite or write the next saga of your script. I love peak summits.

Dodge I love the blissful states, but you have to know you're not... It's not going to stay. It's always going to change and I thought I had... I thought I was at the peak so I wasn't gonna change. I- it's, which is hilarious, 'cause, you know, I'm 32, 33 years old. I have a home on the river where I just enjoyed my weekends drinking.

Dodge I was a hair restoration surgeon, and I thought I was at the peak of my career and that that was it. I was almost thinking of myself as sort of just, not retired, but just I'm set for life at 33 [00:08:00] years old, which is hilarious. And then, kind of similar, just that feeling, I started feeling, having this strange feeling.

Dodge I would notice it when I would do like some mushrooms or just spend time with myself, um, before I really started looking deeper and I was like, "What is that? What is that feeling?" And I was like, "Oh, that's me feeling uncomfortable, and I'm way too comfortable right now." And much like you said, the universe sort of just said, "Yeah, it's time to go ahead and follow the soul's calling," which I'm still very much on the ride, There's a lot of things that are very much in alignment in my life, and then there's a lot of things that I just, I can feel that there is more change coming and just learning how to embrace that. And after kind of sort of restarting my life, wrecking it to an extent, now it's how do you follow your calling without going into detriment?

Hector Yeah. I think that is right. There's the, hero's journey, right? Like it's, it's this, it's this, you know, classic thing that I think is, it's easy in practice to be like, "Yeah, I'm gonna, take that journey."

Hector But when you're in the middle of it,like that is the journey. It's [00:09:00] like a humbling experience, right? Like out of that whole journey. And are you familiar with the hero's journey and that sort of process?

Hector Yes. I've spent some time kind of writing my own and looking into it, So for the listeners, it's, you know, sort of the basic arc of every sort of story from Lord of the Rings to, you know, Star Wars, right? Like all these classic examples. Lion King, right? Like, crazy things happen. The guy goes out into the forest, finds some help. Timon and Pumbaa come along, right?

Hector Like he finds himself, right? Like, like all these things happen and then at the end, you know, there's this great, you know, celebration, and I think people get caught on that celebration but that's like 30 seconds of the movie, right? Shit is crazy for the entire movie and then the large percentage of it is actually the journey and I think people get that flipped, right?

Hector Because we're so used to like watching movies and walking out and remembering like, "Oh yeah, it was, you know, it was the final win. It was like the saving goal," right? My, my kids and I are, are watching, uh, Rookie of the Year a lot which is like great 'cause my son's really into baseball and it's like, it's such a fun...

Hector It's a f- it's a great [00:10:00] movie, right? There's a few instances where I'm like, "Ah," you know, like, uh, '90s, '90s kids humor. Like I can't believe they were, you know, having kids talk about how, you know, the girls were stacked. It was like, m- and I'm like, ah, I'm like, ah, all right. But other than that, like the morals and the themes that really emerge from it are so huge.

Hector but again, it's like it's hard. It's hard. It's hard. It's hard. Oh, it's great, and then it's hard. It's hard. Like, th- and, and to not be okay with that hardness I think just sets up the massive majority of people and, and guys alike for just huge amounts of frustration, failure, like what- whatever. But if we're not expecting things to, to be challenging, I just think we're up for like a rude awakening

Dodge Well, I think the other end of that is if we're just living on that mountain peak indefinitely, we're gonna get bored. We're gonna figure out how to self-sabotage ourselves. And that is a-- as much as I love, I don't know why The Little Mermaid's the only thing that's coming to me, but any of those fairy tale movies that you see on Disney, [00:11:00] the thing that I often notice is, you see that happily ever after comes through.

Dodge But you have to know after they're married and they have the kids, there's going to be more than one dark night of the soul that comes along the way. And that doesn't mean that there's not a place for the storytelling that ends with that high summit, but there's gonna be another saga that comes in.

Dodge There's gonna be more pilgrimages that you have to go on as, you know, whether you wanna call it climbing the ladder, I often see a lot of, you know, there's a lot of speculation. Like, we're not really doing a ladder, we're actually doing a circle. You know, the circle of life as you mentioned earlier.

Dodge But it's not gonna, it's not gonna go away if you choose to keep embracing growth and expansion and living your life to the fullest.

Hector Ri- right. The, the-- and I think we, we sort of talked about it pre-call. the thing that I got, the habit that I got into, you know, early in this journey, personal development journey, you know, even sort of the spiritual side when I w- y- when I had kids I found God.

Hector you know, when I got divorced we got close. [00:12:00] you know, is, is sort of how that worked out. and, you know, I think along that journey there, There's just so many moments to get, caught up in, in doing the ritual or doing the habit or doing the meditation or doing the breathwork, and then sort of pretending that that is the actual work when...

Hector or thinking like that's... And, and it is. That is work, and it is hard, and it is challenging, and that it is. But, and also there becomes a point where, okay, you're doing that. Now the real lifting, the real work, the real exercise is to go out and live that, to go out and bring that into your life to where there is no separation between those moments and your living.

Hector Because ultimately you're gonna continue to get tested, and so if you don't sort of... Like, I found myself running into these situations where intellectually I, I'm able to see and, like, I can kinda step outside and go like, "Here are the ideal set of actions that you should be doing." And I could lay them out and articulate them very clearly, but the player me was still caught in whatever [00:13:00] bullshit that I was caught up in.

Hector And so there was, like, a disconnect between, what I knew and what I was doing. And, and I think that you sort... At least I have to go through that phase where I can see it first. But there was a phase where it was like, okay, dude, like, you've done all the meditations you need to do. Like, this is not a, this is not a go and pray about it problem.

Hector This is a go and fucking do something about it problem

Dodge Yeah, get something done. No, I think it's so true. It's, I mean, it, it's great to find ways to find your center. You know, you mentioned breathwork. I remember the first time I did holotropic breathwork, and I worked through things. I realized I needed to become my own best friend, and I w- came out of it like, "I figured it out.

Dodge it's all figured out." And then you go back into the real world, and again, you get punched in the face. I don't think most of us realize that our, we don't necessarily have to truly suffer. We still have to work through the struggles, that I... There's definitely a place for prayer, but then it's, you made the prayer, so watch for the answers to come.

Dodge Don't miss... You know, there's that phrase we were talking about, "I was praying for you. Like, [00:14:00] where'd you go?" And God's like, "I sent you boats, I sent you trains, I sent you helicopters. You missed all of them." And that's, I'll find myself when I'm in a place of struggle, I'll say, "Okay, what am I missing here?"

Dodge And, and then that is sometimes a good time, I think, to kinda get a broader perspective. And again, now that I think if we've done the work, we no longer need to wait on a near-death experience or some other kind of wild experience to wake us up. It's, okay, we've done it. We're self-aware of our patterns now.

Dodge We've seen, you know, what little triggers we have from some trauma or whatever we worked through, or get to work through childhood. And once you realize that, again, it's kinda coming back. Okay, I don't need to go, I don't need my life to go to detriment to come back to the, to that place to find my calling again.

Dodge It's more go take a breath somewhere, see it, and then go back into the stress and learn how to take a deep breath during the stress.

Hector Yeah. One of my favorite moments, and I've talked about it, quite a number of times on this show, but I think it's worth mentioning, is like, I was, uh, [00:15:00] my ex and I were really going through it and, you know, we were about to...

Hector I was about to see her. And I, I didn't know it at the time, but I knew there were some things that,there were some, some sh- go- shenanigans. Like, I just, I knew the, the, the relationship was not whole in, in, in integrity, from almost like a, like a spiritual sort of, sort of knowing.

Hector And so, on the drive to wherever we're going to meet the, uh, my kid's mom, you know, my kids are in the car and I'm just, I'm full on in like a almost a hol- like a, not holotropic 'cause I know it's not good while you're driving, but I'm in full breathwork mode. And my son, he goes, "Dad, are you breathing?"

Hector And I go, "Yeah." And he goes, "All right." And he just keeps on going, doing what he's doing, you know? And it's, I'm- It, for sure it's, it's, uh, objectively weird, right? And I'm, I'm okay with that. And also I love that he now, you know, we're now, that's two, three years we're sort of removed from that. I see him in moments where he needs to regulate.

Hector He's taking his deep breaths and [00:16:00] he's doing it, and it's just such a, a normal thing for him and, and for us to j- like r- to be able to regulate. Like m- yesterday my daughter, she's freaking out. She can't read the sign on the picture. She's like, you know, sounding out words and stuff like that, but she's just having a full meltdown.

Hector And she's going, "I can't read." And I'm like, that's fine. We'll work on reading. You, you need to get centered." Like, you are so far from being anywhere where you can learn anything that, that just the ability and practice to, like you said, to take that breath and to do it in the moments that we need it, you know?

Hector As opposed to it just relegating to that 15 minutes a day or that 10 minute whatever when we put on the, hop on our app, right? But if we can actually integrate that into our life, I think p- people, guys, all will see like some, like, like in no sure terms like miracles frankly

Dodge No, I mean, I, I love that you use miracles. some of my affirmations these days are, "I am receiving miracles, I am witnessing miracles," and I'll go on and on with it. But even just you teaching your children how to [00:17:00] regulate, that's the gift of a healed man, right? as my son... You know, those first few months are brutal, and he's only gonna be as regulated as I am.

Dodge So my wife's exhausted, and I'm doing my best to put him to sleep, and I'm going back to the things that I've been practicing. I'm taking deep breaths. I'm doing a lot of humming. I'm singing. And even to this day, when he's having a tough time going to sleep or just upset, I know that a lot of- I know some of those practices to do.

Dodge And then even my daughter, whenever she's hurting herself, I'll say, "Okay, I know that you're hurting. Let's just take a minute." And I'll just start walking through some breathing with her. And every single time she calms down, we're able to take care of the wound. And a- again, that's the work. That's... The children, as you said, that's where you see God the most.

Hector I saw a post recently, and it was really interesting 'cause it was one of the times, And I've been doing this more a lot, and I don't know how I feel about it, but I'm just in the middle of this experiment where I have a, a full reply written up to this, X user who I have [00:18:00] no ever connection with at all.

Hector But I've got a paragraph written up, and I go, "Yeah, I'm just gonna hit cancel on that one." We're just gonna move on with our day. But it said, you know, "Men are more emotional than women." And it was, like, it was some doctor or I don't remember what it was. it was something that where I was like, "Mm- I don't, what I came away from it was going, okay, m- maybe there is something there.

Hector And as I sort of continue to reflect on it, I don't know that if men are more emotional or than, or whatever in the context that they were using it. I think that men are more emotionally impactful in the sense that a man's ability to regulate his nervous system doesn't just impact him, but it also impacts everybody in his, you know, in his orbit.

Hector And so our ability to actually regulate ourselves, I mean, they've seen the science, of I think it's like kids regulate with their parents up to like seven years old or something like that, and they can sort of scientifically prove that. And I would imagine that like as woo-woo as you get, that there is something going on when someone is regulated, [00:19:00] right?

Hector There is a calming presence, even if it's just energetically or fate. Like however, you know, woo-woo or not you wanna get, what I-- my point is, is that if guys can see that their ability to regulate themselves in these moments actually extends beyond just them, perhaps there's an extra reason to do that, right?

Hector Why am I gonna go do breathwork? I don't need breathwork. My w- my, my life is fine. Like whatever, what- whatever, whatever. Okay, you know, you can say all that, and is there actually, you know, an opportunity to, you know, a lot of the guys on my listening show are looking for like optimization or looking to, you know, be their best.

Hector Well, like is there a way for you to start making an impact there? I think not a l- not enough guys are seeing the connection between their breathwork or their meditation or, you know, I've been doing, um, some like, Taoist, uh, qigong, sort of like those things, 'cause I'm like, I'll try whatever.

Hector You know? Like these people have been doing this for millennia. Like there's gotta be s- you know, I'll try whatever. And so whatever the, your practice is, finding that and realizing that it's not, it's not [00:20:00] just, siloed to that area of your life or that part of your life, but it actually can bleed into others.

Hector And the p- you know, bleed's a weird word, but actually impact, others and the, and the people around it as well.

Dodge Yeah, I mean, it's very interesting where people even feel that like almost collectively where you're at, which can definitely be viewed as woo. But there's also, I'm not gonna be an expert here, but there is a lot of neuroscience in improving that your nervous system is going to bring in that perception of what's happening outside, what's happening inside, and the others are gonna feel that.

Dodge And I think... You know who Preston Smiles is and the bridge that he programmed the drums?

Hector Yeah. I- We just interviewed him on one of... Oh, Jason, yeah, Jason, who actually connected us. Uh, we got a chance to go out and, uh, record an episode with Preston.

Dodge Yeah. I mean, he's, he's one of my... I, I look to him, he's a great mentor.

Dodge His wife is incredible, too. And I was doing the Bridge, and the way the Bridge works is usually you're gonna be going through something that you get to work through as they're They're not actually waterboarding you, but they're putting you through all kinds of crazy different, [00:21:00] exercises. And I basically, I was bringing not great weather, and everyone around me could feel it.

Dodge And finally Alexi, his wife, called me out about it and she says, "You know, you carry your weather and it impacts people the way Preston does," which was not necessarily a compliment, but she's, but you know, she's like, "You need to bring out the sunshine." And it really, it really pointed that out to me. That was one of the first times I realized that whatever I'm bringing to the table, those surrounding me are going to be impacted as well.

Dodge And yeah, it's, it's learning how to control your own weather and, and that's again, I like Qigong and all those different practices. They do not resonate with me quite as the same as my biggest connector is going into nature, bare feet in the dirt, sunrises, sunsets, and usually doing some sort of breathing or singing or anything like that.

Dodge But my wife knows, she knows that that's something that I'm gonna need, so at some point I'm like, "I need to go outside for a little bit." Or after I finish my work for the day, I do my best to not immediately go and start taking care of kids. I tr- I do [00:22:00] something, whether I sit in my office for a few minutes, or again, I'll just go outside.

Dodge I come back and I'm anew. I'm able to regulate myself so that I can be regulated for them

Hector it seems like there's a And, and you, I don't think you can fully understand where people are from following social media, but I think it sort of puts the big buckets, right? You've got these, hyper-masculine steroids, GLPs.

Hector Uh, I mean, I think this, this, uh, just this past week it came out that Bryan Johnson, the guy who is, spending millions of dollars to, you know, make his health life longer and live forever essentially. Like it, it just came out that he has some autoimmune or some stomach, like some dis- basically sickness or disease that all the tests in the world, all the thing, like didn't end up catching.

Hector and it's just interesting because it's like only recently is he starting to look into things like psychedelics or look into these, you know, the sort of spiritual side of this [00:23:00] whole equation. And I'm just wondering if enough guys are, you know... 'Cause I think there's that world where everything is measurable and everything is science and it's all physicality and, and, and, you know, if you can't measure it, it doesn't exist, like that sort of thing.

Hector That results in a, a peptide-crazed sort of world, which I know that there are some places and we've talked about the positive uses of it. I just think it's also emblematic of a society that goes, "Well, I can just take the easy way out and then, you know, let me take this pill or let me just inject this thing and I'll get where I wanna be."

Hector And it's almost like a, like a fast track to what I had talked about before where they get to that place and now all of a sudden they probably realize that they're not as happy, they're not whatever, they're not fulfilled, they're not, like the getting that didn't actually get them what they wanted.

Hector and I could see that like leading to its own crisis season. So again, it's like are, are enough guys waking up to something like, you know, these practices and how, not to just do them, 'cause we talk a lot about doing them, but now it's like living them and integrating them and bringing them into, your parenting or your [00:24:00] relationships or, you know, how you're showing up at, you know, in your world.

Dodge what you just said kind of reminds me of what I... I mean, I'm not the only person who says this, but, you know, the ceremony is not actually the most important part. It is the integration. And I would say I was the person, I mean, I've taken supplements and used peptides, and I was on testosterone therapy for years.

Dodge And on the outside I looked fantastic. Oh, I, I, well, I look at the photos now and I don't think I needed to be 240, now I'm closer to 200 pounds. But I wasn't paying any attention to what is behind the surface, what's going on u- underneath there. And, you know, I'm not here to, to say what Bryan Johnson's doing wrong and what he's doing right.

Dodge I, again, I take, I have a cabinet full of supplements, but there are a lot of days that I'm like, "I'm not doing these today." Or, you know, I'll use peptide stacks because I do wanna live for a long time. But, you know, I saw another post where he went through Bryan Johnson's entire documentary, and he found where he mentioned some trauma.

Dodge Sounds like he hasn't really processed it. I'm not here to tell him what he's done and not done, [00:25:00] but there's also a very massive level of neurosis that comes when you're, when you have, you know, dozens of doctors following every single thing, and you're doing every procedure that comes along. And there comes a point that you kinda start bringing some of that stuff on yourself, because you're so obsessed with the outlo- looking appearance, living for as long as possible.

Dodge You're missing the entire present moment

Hector Yeah. it's exactly it. And, and I, again, should do peptides and all these sort of things have benefit? Like, absolutely, for sure. But I think it's to your point about the ceremony, if someone is doing those things without purpose, without spirit, without, without soul, then again, it's like going through a ceremony just thinking that the ceremony is the answer or that, or even, like for me, I, and I've talked endlessly here, you know, the listeners are getting their bingo cards coming out 'cause I'm, you know, bringing up my Catholic, uh, my Catholic upbringing.

Hector but that was sort of the problem that I found was that by the end of it, I was-- I had gone through the motions so many [00:26:00] times, and I could tell you all of the when to sit up and when to kneel and when to whatever and, uh, yada, yada, yada. And there was no soul behind it. There was no heart and it lacked all of that.

Hector And so it took me, you know, having a kid, and it took me all these things to sort of come back and go, "Oh, these... " It's not that the rituals were empty. It's not that the, not that the, these sort of things were void of any meaning or substance. It's that the substance was just lacking.

Hector You know, there w- I, I w- I wasn't providing the substance into the container, for lots of reasons. You know, I think there's sort of a, a systemic, reason or, or, that's just culturally, like it's the norm to not bring substance to those things, And maybe that's by accident, maybe it's not.

Hector but to your point, it's like if we can bring some intention to the things that we- we're doing, I think that we're not only gonna see better results, but more importantly, we're going to just have a, a greater sense of peace that, that I think is what we're chasing ultimately anyways.

Dodge Yeah. I mean, I was raised in the Christian church myself and, [00:27:00] unfortunately I got to a point where I was gonna make it no matter what. Whether I was hungover or not feeling my best, I'd go through the motions. I couldn't tell you a single thing that they had said during the sermon. But again, it took me walking away and spending some time and going through a crazy place of the spiritual marketplace where I found a lot of God and I just, I have faith that I never could have imagined through going through those things.

Dodge And now when I'm praying, it's a completely different way of praying. It's a different way of-- It's a conversation with God. It's Again, a lot of it just has to be with the present moment and what are you doing it for? Intentionality, like you said. 30, 30 ayahuasca ceremonies are not gonna get you there.

Dodge Chasing the next trip's not gonna get you there. I do think there's a great place for some novelty and doing things just to see what's come up over the last few years that I have not actually taken a look at in a while. But it's really just learning how to live your life in the mundane and staying, staying spiritual in a knowing [00:28:00] place during that time.

Hector You've said a, a term that I haven't heard before, and that's spiritual marketplace. what is that? Is that a term that you coined, or is, is there an actual... Does that actually mean something to, you know, what does it... Just tell the listeners what you mean by that.

Dodge I did not make that term up. The first time I ever heard it was a coach I was working with.

Dodge His name was Rafé Beeson, and he's someone... You know, it's, it's going to every single course. It's trying, all the different types of meditation, Kundalini, and I mentioned Tantra earlier, and just dabbling in every single thing thinking you're going to find it. You're going to find the enlightenment.

Dodge And, you know, I, I was in Austin at the time, which I'm- There's lots of it ... I don't know if you've ever been there. Yeah. But, I mean, it is just full of coaches and spiritual leaders that all have the answers for you. But really what I found in all of that was the, most of the answers are inside of you. You know, even when you do a psychedelic, it's, you're not...

Dodge Something outside of you is not bringing that realization to you. It's you're taking the time and you're, you know, you're throwing [00:29:00] yourself off default mode network and your ego long enough to find out what's actually waiting for you underneath all of it.

Hector Yeah. It's, um, I, I love what you said in the sense that it can bring up, you know, it can highlight things.

Hector It's a tool, right? it is not, it's not the panacea. It's, it is a, is a tool. Yeah. And I think a lot of people, they go, and it, and it can be easy to, to your point, there are so many people that will sort of help you, down this road, or they'll say they'll help you, right? And then there are so many modalities.

Hector And I think that is great, 'cause I, I think the modalities arise because there isn't a one-size-fits-all thing. and so I think that there is a place for sampling and trying and figuring out what works for you. And also, I think with that comes a, like a non-judgment or an acceptance that Yeah, I used to think, "Oh, this doesn't work," when no, dude, it's like [00:30:00] it doesn't work for you.

Hector that's all, right? And as opposed to casting judgment or losing what I actually internalized it was, it was like, "Oh, I can't do it. I c- I'm not capable of it because this particular modality did not, work for me." And so I would sort of cast judgment on myself because of it, and I've sort of gotten past enough of that to be willing to try enough things and, and, you know, I sort of have fallen in love with, being a, uh, you know, a new, a newbie at something, because I know that like, at least for me, I'm gonna have to try a few different things before...

Hector Like my neuroticism, my weird, uh, like I'm gonna need to find something that's a little off of the beaten path to really work for me. And, um, and I think that in doing that, it's exposed me to be, to a lot of different things that, people are not, I find I'm just like two or three years ahead of the curve is what it is, right?

Hector Uh, I was on a bulletproof coffee in, like in two thou- I think I started drinking it in 2009, 2010, something [00:31:00] like that, and it was like people were like, "What? You put butter in your coffee?" And they were like, "What?" You know, it was, it was the craziest thing, and now, you know, it's on most street corners in Austin and in LA.

Hector So, what else, what other modalities though, in that marketplace, I think that we, uh, I don't know that I- I've talked about it with a certain neutrality, but I wanna at least highlight that there are great things out there for people, very helpful stuff, things. Are there things that you are excited about or that are working for you right now?

Hector Or I don't like to venture into the recommend sort of world b- because like again, you know, people are all different, but are there things that are, you know, fit that sort of category for you right now?

Dodge Yeah, I did want to kind of preface with I'm not even saying that the things that I tried didn't work. A lot of the things I tried during the time, they gave me insight. They gave me, you know, some peak experiences. I just had to kind of find what worked with me because obviously you can't do, you can't do all of them.

Dodge You can't do Reiki and Qigong and every type of yoga there is. [00:32:00] You kind of have to find some things that really work for you. Uh, you know, yoga was actually profound for me during the time. It's a little hard to fit into my current schedule, and I've been repairing my knee for about a year, and so some of the movements I can't even do.

Dodge But I really think most of it is finding what brings you to center the best. And I mean, my current place, I'm keeping it a little more simple. I- I'm very open to trying different things, but it's, for me at this time, it's really finding the spirituality in the mundane, finding ways to get outside, spending time with nature.

Dodge I do a lot of breathwork. I'm not going for those holotropic peak experiences. It's learning how to just stay regulated with where I'm at, and that definitely doesn't mean I'm not gonna try some of the other ones again or even go back to, you know, like, I mean, again, like Kundalini yoga. I had just some very wild experiences.

Dodge You know, I, I played around with like Akashic records. I, you know, I think most of them can work in some way or another, but it's... [00:33:00] I've definitely been curious enough to try some of them, but then finding, you know, what's really going to align the best with you and even your schedule. You know, if you're, as we talked about, like you have a six and a seven-year-old, so you don't necessarily have time to go meditate for six to eight hours a day or, you know.

Dodge In Austin, there's tons of... every Friday you can go do ecstatic dancing, which is also fantastic. I, I've had, I've really enjoyed doing that. But there comes a point where you have to spend more time with your kids than you can go do work on yourself, so you have to find what's gonna work the best for you

Hector Yeah, that's, that is my schedule. My kids were like, "Hey, Dad, wh- why don't you do jujitsu anymore?" And it's like, well, actually all their classes were at pickup time, so I had to find a different way to work out, you know? Like, Yeah.

Dodge Yeah ...

Hector a- and- Exactly ... and I- Exactly ... and I also have to, be very mindful of, like I think there was a, a little bit of resentment at the beginning of like, "Oh, I don't get to do this," but that's also because I was s- not utilizing the ti- like, I was just being bitter while I was with them instead of being like, being [00:34:00] present and being fun and being, um...

Hector I think that this is a- another thing I'm realizing, and it's interesting as you're sort of starting this journey, that the willingness to be a good parent today is like, that is a-- It's a sort of a, it's a commitment, right? in a... That a different, that previous generations, you know, one, one generation being a good parent was providing financially.

Hector Okay, great. Cool. the next step was like, okay, Then beyond financially, it was like, you know, the, the parents of the sort of '90s, 2000s, you know, my generation, maybe it was the '80s, but less so, it was like, okay, we got you in, in sports and we got you in activities, and because you're, we're providing for you, you have food on the table, and you're involved in activities, we're a good parent.

Hector But that was still like ab... What's the word I'm looking for? It still didn't involve a lot of like actual presence or responsibility or, or excuse me, responsibility, a lot of presence and a lot of, uh, like engagement, right? And so today, [00:35:00] those things are important. It's important for them to be, you know, provided for and for them to be involved and all that sort of stuff.

Hector But now there's a level of like presence and interaction and quality time that is,is it required? I don't know. I swear I'm like, I'm like on the line 'cause I see parents who do it the old style and I find myself feeling bad for the kid, and I don't know if that's the right feeling, but it's, it, there's a distinct, you know...

Hector There's parents who show up to the park, and I see this with my mom when she does it, right? 'Cause she expects to take to the kids to the park and just the kids go and play and they're on their own. When I take the kids to the park, I know that I'm gonna have to be involved and engaged, and I might have to like, you know, I'm gonna have to do some monkey bars a little bit.

Hector I'm gonna ha- like, I might be able to get into the place where they find a group of friends and now they're on their own. But all, the majority of the time, I'm involved for a majority of the time, and that, again, I don't know if it's a requirement, but I see the difference that it makes, and so I'm like, that now at least is my standard and I'm hoping that more guys are willing to [00:36:00] raise that standard knowing that like I'm so much more tapped out at the end of the day.

Hector Like I'm s- I have such a smart-- Like if a, and it requires so much more, quote-unquote, self-care or, silence, like whatever it is, that without doing, I can't do one without the other. I can't be the present, engaged sort of person and not go out and meditate and breathwork and work on myself and that sort of thing, you know?

Hector So they, they are, they're not mutually exclu-- I don't know what that word is, right? But they have to, they are, connected.

Dodge were talking about it. I'm thinking about I was at the pool with my son and my wife on Sunday, and I was witnessing this guy who, he did at least bring his daughter to the swimming pool, but she very clearly wanted his attention. You know, he gave her some toys, he gave her the floaty, but he was seriously doing this the whole time, just scrolling on his computer.

Dodge And I mean, I catch myself now m- with my son, I'll be just changing a song and he, he feels it. He'll be playing and I grab my screen and he's looking over at me like, "What the heck? [00:37:00] What are you doing?" And I'm like, "You're right, actually. I am gonna switch this song." But then I put my phone... Sometimes I put it far away from me because they feel it, and that's part of, Yes, I think sports are important. You want them to, you know, be able to commit to something and go through it. But ultimately right now, you're trying to teach them to not need you, and what they actually need is you. Th- that's it. It's playing with them. And yeah, if they find some friends to go play at the park, sure.

Dodge But when I go with my daughter to the park, there's not a chance that I am not going to be playing with her until she doesn't need me, which that does happen now 'cause she's six and she has a ton of friends.

Hector Yeah. It's, um, it's also funny. I, I remember, early on telling my kid's mom, I was like, "They're so boring.

Hector this is... They just s- they just, they just sit there." and I was like kind of frus- kinda like frustrated, right? 'Cause I had some friends that their dad, they were, their kids were in the age that I'm in, and they're playing catch and and, the challenging part though is that [00:38:00] it doesn't happen overnight for a guy to be able to just flip that switch and be able to go into like, and to actually be fun dad present mode, right?

Hector Like that's, that, I think that's a muscle that needs to be built. And the same thing, like that relationship, it's... I don't know, but at least for me, I know that I've built in this relationship over time so that now we're at a place where, where when I parent or when I discipline or whatever, there is a, I don't know, an understanding, a bond.

Hector Like there's a real love as opposed to just, previous generations where it was almost like this... And again, the, the parents were there, but there was no real connection. So when they tried to discipline, it was like, "Fuck you. Like you don't actually know me. You don't understand me. You don't..." A- as opposed to at least what's happening or what, what I'm trying to create now with my kids is like, you know, we are all, you know, we're together and it's those moments at the park.

Hector It's the moments playing catch. It's the moments, even just yesterday I was, you know, hanging outside. We were regulating outside with my daughter and it ended up us, you know, wa- looking at [00:39:00] the plants and the flowers. But like those small present moments that allow for us to discipline, whatever, a, you know, afterwards.

Dodge No, I totally agree. I, you know, my daughter, who has a great dad, but I still refer to her as my daughter 'cause I'm not gonna say stepdaughter every single time, but, you know, I got her at three, and she didn't trust me because a lot of things had happened. And funny enough, at six, we are way closer than we were back then, and even when my son came in, you know, obviously I deeply loved him.

Dodge I had ex- had this ex- I had prayed for him to come, and up until the point of my wife becoming pregnant, I loved him. But now at seven months, I am way deeper in love with him than I was way before that. And, I was a little different just because I told myself this story that I did not, I should not have children.

Dodge And then going through divorce and everything, I realized there was actually nothing more than I wanted than children. And so I'm consistently like, when my son wakes up in the middle of the night and I'm just so tired, but I get to rock him back to sleep, I am just... I'm actually praying like, [00:40:00] "Please let me remember this moment," because I know a decade down the road or farther, like he's not gonna need me for these things, you know?

Dodge It's even created a better relationship with my own father because, the-- a dad is usually your first bully, whether they actually are or not, and he was not truly a bully. He's one of the kindest men I know. But now he's about to be 78, and where he used to wanna play another round of golf and I'd be like, "No, I'm ready to go," now I'm like, "Can we please play another round of golf?

Dodge Can we please spend a little more time with each other?" And it's also just sort of, you know, calling in, like I, I'm hoping my son wants to continue to do that for me. And something else just kinda came up that I realized is the magic comes back because of your children. Spending time with them, playing in, you know, imagination, that brings everything back to you because we forget how to play as we get older.

Dodge Everything becomes, like you've talked about, just chasing money, chasing success. When I listen to my eight-year-old self who says like, "You're not gonna actually care about any of that," you know, you're gonna be thinking, looking around like, "Did [00:41:00] I build community here? And then what impact did I make on my children?

Dodge Are they gonna wanna be with me on my deathbed and actually tell me goodbye?" But that's definitely what I'm working towards.

Hector Yeah. It's, um, it's interesting that I, I wonder if someone, were to at least like read the transcripts of this show, it would like read like a horror story of fatherhood.

Hector You know? Because I, uh, most, a lot of this show is just mostly, therapy for me and the guests. a- and, and it can, you know, it can become that. and also I think it has to be like, it has become the greatest, the single greatest joy that I've, been able to ever be a part of. And I can't i- imagine anything ever coming, close.

Hector Like I even wonder, and it's like that thing, like how can you never love another kid, you know, a- again or like the same way? And I'm sure like, you know, that the people who have a huge family or, you know, we had a guest on that had like 12 kids and s- you know, I, I'm sure they get, you know, they get through that.

Hector But again, it's like all, all that to say despite all of this, I think that's what [00:42:00] guys need is something like hard and worthwhile, right? You know? Like and I think a lot of guys get upset. You know, one other thing that came up this past week, we're recording this, the week, after 4th of July.

Hector And, um, not too far from actually where we were celebrating, we were actually in the area for a period of time, in Newport Beach. Uh, I don't know if you saw that, but it got shut down with, you know, there was rioters and they ha- uh, they were attacking the police, horses, and they were shooting fireworks into the crowd.

Hector And it got to the point where the police, or the sheriff's county or whatever, they shut down the whole like city. So all of those businesses that were expecting a big night, there was not a single bar open on, you know, it's called the Peninsula, which is a huge, huge strip of land. And, uh, you know, tons, dozens, you know, maybe hundreds of businesses that, suffered because of it, whether they didn't ge- actually get business or there was so much looting.

Hector And, and it's not to take away from that, right? It's not to take away from their own responsibility for sure. But that is like the emblem of a society [00:43:00] that, or you know, men, 'cause a lot of, a lot of the destruction was being caused by men. guys, 18, you know, teen, teenage 20-something-year-old kids, boys, whatever, who were clearly not excited about their future.

Hector Like if they were thinking about being a future dad, if they were, if that was in their mindset or they, you know, they were working, like you said, they were working towards something, they would be so far from doing those things. but I think like there's this mass sort of, you know, psychosis happening where we've gotten so far from what actually matters that people literally do not give a fuck.

Hector and it's, it's crazy to see

Dodge kids bring purpose, right? And unfortunately, I do love America for what it is. I have my issues with it, as most people do. But something we're not doing is we're not bringing men into adulthood. there are tribes that whenever a kid turns 13, they would knock his tooth out and stick him out into the wilderness and let him learn how to be resilient by himself, and then he, you know, he comes back understanding responsibility.

Dodge And it's just, it's not happening. I mean, you, you hope that you're gonna get some of that in sports, but it is up to the fathers to find [00:44:00] ways to bring them into adulthood. You know, it, a lot of it is, it comes down to mother wounds, father wounds. But again, like my, one of my biggest jobs that I'll get to do as my son gets older, and right now I'm not gonna be able to do it, but it is actually to take that son from the teat, It's actually to show him how to be a man and not l- go around looking for the whole world to mother him.

Hector Y- you know, I, it's, and how we should, we could do a whole, we have done whole episodes on this. But that's, that's I think a big challenge that a lot of men of our generation have is that we didn't...

Hector There are of course some, some examples of m- but as a whole, we did not see strong fathering. We did not see, you know, strong leader... And it was actually, a lot of it was strong mothering, right? It was moms trying to be dads or trying to raise men in their image, which is, I know we've talked a lot about, you know, as my viewers or listeners are getting their bingo card, is like we've talked about the damage that that can sort of create when a, a mom is raising a [00:45:00] boy to be what she thinks a man should be.

Hector Like, that's, you know, is, is sort of challenging and hard. But then now we as, as fathers, we now have this resp- I don't k- I, I look at it as responsibility to, like you said, take our, our sons from the teat and turn them into fathers. and we are, are doing that, I don't know if blind is the right word, but a lot of us didn't have that done in a right or a structured or a, a foundational way.

Hector And so we're sort of, grabbing in the dark bli- you know, grabbing in a dark room trying to find our way, and I think we're making good strides. But I think that is still a challenge that we have to sort of confront head-on is that the way that... I love my dad. he's, he's been a great, you know, dad in his ways, and I think that he was also robbed of a lot of his power, if you will, as a father because, societally it was not...

Hector You know, we tried to like declaw boys. You know, we tried to like defang them, you know, and take out all of the [00:46:00] masculinity. and it was almost like if a dad wanted to bring in more masculinity, he was ridiculed, frankly. And so, or he was sort of this gun-slinging, you know, woman beater sort of thing, right?

Hector and I think obviously there's a balance and a, and a middle, but I think that it's, it's sort of up to fathers of our generation to, move it closer towards that way.

Dodge my dad did the very best he could. I mean, he did a lot to help me become a man. I'm not... I don't spend a lot of time analyzing what he did wrong. I did-- I've mentioned this more than once, but I don't know if it'll come up where people see it twice. But, you know, I, I went through this journey where I kinda looked at all the really amazing men in my life that had mentored me, and I found things that I did not want of myself.

Dodge And I realized there is no actual mo- roadmap to the man I want to become. And it really took me getting into my 30s and going through some real stuff to realize I have to become the man. that is my biggest responsibility, is to become a man that I can be proud of and that my son can be proud of.

Dodge And I don't... [00:47:00] Pride might not be, may not be the best word, but being someone that society and humanity is bettered for by the time I leave this earth.

Hector Yeah, for sure. For sure. Dodge, this has been such a fun conversation. I'm excited and looking forward to round two already. Is there anything, that we didn't talk about today or we didn't touch on today that you still feel is worth mentioning?

Dodge we really covered a lot. I know we're probably coming close to the end. you know, one thing that you and I both talked a little bit about is just what it takes to be a partner, which I don't know, uh, do you date much these days? Are you too deep into fatherhood to, to be able to have time for that?

Hector Uh, there was a period and then,of... And I talked about it on the show, where I came out of, the divorce and the split just like that was all I could think about, and that was all that was driving me. And I was like, "This is not healthy." And so, since that time, I've not re-engaged with it in sort of any, serious way.[00:48:00]

Hector Uh, but there will be a, a time and place and,my, my daughter's like, she's always at... She's starting to ask, like, "Dad, do you have a girlfriend?" she's asking it more and more, so I'm like, "Geez, what are you saying here?" I'm like, "You're, you're the most important girl in my life right now."

Hector let's, let's enjoy it.

Dodge that is the most important thing, I was curious more just because, you know, another, another role as Austin Todd is, you know, we're supposed to hold all the space for women. We're supposed to, to a default even, just listen and hear them over and over again and just supply all their needs.

Dodge Something that I've realized is you do need to do that, but you have to have to have the boundaries to be able to say, "I need a little space. I can't... I've given all I can give." And even just help them see their own BS, again, that's kind of going off the path, but that's one thing you and I chatted a little bit about beforehand, and I think it's amazing that you're doing all the work you're doing.

Dodge And, you know, you can even like write out a little bit of a description of what you could see in a woman that would be, you know, a great co-parent for you. And again, I'm not here to give you advice. It's [00:49:00] just sort of something that came, has come through in my own path. And I would say most people looking at the way I did things would probably say it was not the, it was not very smart, 'cause I was doing a lot of work.

Dodge But I very abruptly went from single man looking at all my stuff, doing it all, to jumping straight into the work with another woman. And adding that in with the children has probably been just the most profound growth that I've felt outside of the things we've been talking about, meditation and breathwork and everything else.

Hector Yeah, I'm sure it was a, a catalyst or an accelerant in that, uh, in that process for sure, 'cause I think at a, at a certain point I realized, you know, okay, there is, there's only s- not that there's only so much work that can be done on yourself, 'cause I think that that is an endless well as well. But I think that a part of the process or part of the work includes other people, whether that's a significant other or a child or, Ri- right now I'm, just moved back into my parents', ADU, and so it's [00:50:00] just a, an interesting dynamic because it's like the first time that my whole family has been back under the roof, one roof, as now that we're all adults and there's two kid- you know, two extra kids. And it's just, just a really interesting dynamic, being back.

Hector And I-- So for me, a lot of the things that I'm looking at is like, well, how can I use this opportunity to improve? Uh, repair maybe is sort of a, a, a big word because I don't know that there's a... I mean, maybe there's some-- a little bit of repairing, but it's not like anything drastic. But like how do I use this to really create not just okay relationships with my parents and with my family, but like incredible, amazing, connections and relationships with them in a way that I had not prioritized in the past and just thought that, you know, what-whatever.

Hector But it's just if nothing else, like that's what's present and w- that's what's opportune, and I-- and it seems like in reflecting on it, okay, this is also what's, what's supposed... Like not... That's-- I use that word loosely, but this is the project, or this is the mission, if you will

Dodge I have lived with [00:51:00] my parents for a while. I mean, I've gone back and forth even through adulthood. But, you know, anytime I go back to my hometown or, I mean, when I'm with them and I have a good relationship with them now, all that stuff that we think you've moved through, it comes back up and you get to work through it all over again.

Dodge So yeah, you have quite the project with you living with them, but it's also a beautiful opportunity to just make those relationships even better, and you kinda get to reestablish the script on that because, when you grow up a certain way, you're go- you're under their roof, you're doing what they tell you to do.

Dodge You have to kinda come up with your own boundaries and, you know, what are you willing to do? What are you not willing to do? Where are you willing to go with it? But, yeah, with my parents, again, it's just getting to reestablish a relationship with them that I did not have through a lot of my 30s because of where I was at.

Dodge It's one of the most beautiful experiences that I've gotten to have and knowing I'm good with my parents. if they... I don't want them to pass, but if they do, I didn't leave a lot of s- stones unturned. Although there are still [00:52:00] plenty of conversations that could be had.

Hector Sure. I'm su- and especially as you're getting into going further into this parenting journey, as I know you've already been on it.

Hector Dodge, I got two questions left for you. The first is if people wanna get more connected with you, find out about what you're doing, what you're up to, where's the best place for people to go?

Dodge So you can come to my, my personal Instagram. I'm pretty, pretty active on that. It's just dodgefeeler. I also have my business, which is telemedicine.

Dodge We do a lot of different... We do hormones and peptides and a lot of holistic, uh, lifestyle changes, and that, uh, Instagram would be, wayolw. uh, wait, no, I'm sorry. That's... The website is wayo- wayolw.com, and then the Instagram is wayolwpm. But those are some easy ways to find me. I also have a s- I have a Substack, which is also just dodgefeeler.

Dodge I'm not as active on that. I only write articles when I have the time for it. And then I've also started my own podcast, which is The, uh, Way of Becoming, which that's, that same thing can be found on Instagram.

Hector Yeah. And, uh, yeah, I think it's important as we're sort of talking about it that I... [00:53:00] One of the things that I appreciated as I was looking into what you do is that when I clicked on your website, it, it seemed like you brought a lot of the soul and heart and spirit into, you know, you call it telemedicine or peptides or whatever, and that was, that I think is a lot different than what's going on in that space.

Hector You know, you could, you can... Uh, n- I don't know. I, I don't wanna say it like... There are a lot of places you can get those things, and so if you can get it from someone that ha- you know, is heart-centered or, you know, is heart-minded, I think, that makes... I know it makes a difference, in all the things that have passed through.

Dodge Well, the way it's, way it's come through, I had no choice. it did kind of start as a, as a little of an anger project going through a divorce, and it's shifted over. As I've, as I've healed, it's healed, so the vision's changed. And also, my podcast is actually The Biology of Becoming, not The Way of Becoming.

Dodge but yeah, no, I appreciate the insight on the website. We're actually... We're looking to change it up a little bit just to give a little more clarity of what all we offer without taking the soul aspect of it.

Hector Yeah. And we'll link all that up in [00:54:00] the, uh, show notes, and the podcast as well.

Hector Uh, last question for you, Dodge. In your opinion, uh, what is the definition of modern masculinity?

Dodge I think it's knowing when to be hard and when to be soft. You know, when do you need to have the warrior out and when do you need to be vulnerable with the people around you? Because we got a lot going where it's one extreme to the other, and we can go deep into it, but it's just being a fully heart-centered male that is here to better society, better humanity