How Emerging Brands Are Leveraging Marketing Mix Modeling with Beatrice Ellington

[00:00:00] Beatrice: if marketing is driving a low percentage of your revenue, that just means that you're leaving a lot of meat on the bone. It doesn't necessarily mean that just forget about marketing.

[00:00:08] Beatrice: Another thing is that when we work with brands who maybe they're, more so emerging, maybe they've been around for five years, maybe they're doing 10 million in revenue, maybe 15 million in revenue, but they, To that point, haven't really had any insight in what their marketing has been doing. It's more just that dartboard shot in the dark.

[00:00:27] Beatrice: That's always really exciting when we can see them find the results from a platform like Keen and then start to make informed decisions.

[00:01:02] Kelly: Everyone, Kelly McGuire, co founder of Vuja Dé Digital, excited to talk to today's guest.

[00:01:06] Todd: Hey everybody, this is Todd Kelly's co founding partner, Vuja Dé Digital. And today we're going to try with Beatrice to tackle the question that every marketer struggles with. Which 50 percent of my marketing is working.

[00:01:19] Todd: I don't know. Why do I not know? Because I probably don't have keen decision systems built into my decision making, and I don't understand, marketing or media mixed modeling. And so today we're going to try to pull the veil back on that because I don't think enough people know about this, at least not in the.

[00:01:38] Todd: Smaller to medium sized brands. The big companies definitely invest heavily in this, but, as we know, as an independent agency, using your product for our clients, we have had tremendous success and sharing with marketers. Insights on how every dollar actually is impacting their business. So Beatrice, welcome.

[00:01:58] Todd: Thanks for joining us. And why don't you tell the audience a little bit about yourself as director of partnerships for Keen DS.

[00:02:06] Beatrice: Yeah, definitely. So it's nice to be here and talk with you all. I've enjoyed this partnership. Definitely. My background is mostly with agencies, marketing agencies prior to coming to keen did a little bit of work in V.

[00:02:20] Beatrice: C. mostly with startups and emerging brands. But now I'm in the marketing mixed modeling side. So we definitely work with the larger brands, but we also partner with agencies to help their clients, which is great. And I'm sure we'll get into this, but it helps us really bring marketing mixed modeling down to companies that are a little bit smaller in size that otherwise couldn't benefit from it.

[00:02:42] Todd: Awesome. All right. Well, first question is we're going to assume some listeners may or may not be. Highly trained experts and, MMM, not MMA, but MMM, media or marketing mixed modeling. So can you, from your perspective and your work at Keen, describe what does that mean? What does it do for marketers?

[00:03:00] Todd: What does it mean?

[00:03:02] Beatrice: Yeah, definitely. So marketing mixed modeling is really a powerful statistical analysis technique where we can use sales and marketing. Data to estimate the impact of overall marketing. So we can look at individual marketing tactics, things like that, but really measure the effectiveness on historical performance for a brand, but then also run predictive analysis and how different scenarios will impact revenue or sales of a company.

[00:03:27] Beatrice: So instead of looking at https: otter. ai

[00:03:34] Beatrice: One in the interaction effect between the channels, but then two in the incremental dollars that they're going to be bringing in year over year. it's really a way to understand not just how the marketing is performing, but how it's driving the overall growth of a company.

[00:03:50] Todd: okay, great. lot of people talk about, I don't believe this.

[00:03:54] Todd: I don't know if it's true. How do I rely on this? So can you talk about maybe more of the, technological sort of wizardry or back in like, I know it is, really deep, deep sort of algorithmic or, different types of statistical mathematics and modeling, which I'm not smart enough to totally get into, but.

[00:04:16] Todd: Can you talk about how does this really work and what are looking at? I know there's some AI sort of componentry probably being built into this now because everything's being built with that. But can you talk a little bit about how it work and how does it help boost campaign performance from the.

[00:04:33] Todd: Point of view of somebody who's got to spend money. You talked about working with VCs and startups, So you understand the value of spending money and how critical it is to measure every dollar. talk a little bit about that. How does this technically functionally work? If you can to, to the degree of your knowledge, and how that would work.

[00:04:50] Beatrice: Yeah. So it is AI driven, which is funny because we've been around a little over 10 years. So technically we've been in the AI space for a long time, way before it was talked about left and right. but our AI platform, we call it our marketing elasticity engine and it's our patented AI system.

[00:05:08] Beatrice: and so how it works really in a nutshell or at high level is that we have daily about 4. 5 billion. 4. 5 billion. In overall marketing spend. So over those almost 15 years, we've we have about that 4. 5 billion of client metadata. So we have a lot of market metadata, client metadata, and just sources that really drive this system.

[00:05:31] Beatrice: And then on the other hand, we have about 40 years of academic research. So we have this really robust data hub that then marries with client data. So the cool thing about Keen is that we don't necessarily need. Only client data to run our models. We can rely on our marketing elasticity engine or a I powered platform to really make any sort of historical or predictive analysis.

[00:05:57] Beatrice: So that's high level. How it works. We use Bayesian regression modeling. if that means anything to any of the tech people and then, Monte Carlo simulation, and we're off a weekly time series based model, but it all goes into the data that we have internally and it marries up to the client data to get the outputs.

[00:06:15] Kelly: So I think that's really cool. So obviously there's a lot of technicality in it as Todd. Addressed. And I think that we can scale it back a little. And what I'd like to talk about a little bit is really how we came about partnering up with you guys and came across your guys a solution. and some of that history from my perspective and getting an idea of How MMM has really progressed and become more universally available and more, acceptable for certain brands that maybe weren't able to do it.

[00:06:43] Kelly: So we kind of came about with you guys because we often work with clients that are struggling with that real connectivity between investment and business outcomes. And I find it really intriguing to be able to have the methodology available to make that correlation between true sales or offline measurement or whatever it is that is actually driving the ROI of the business versus traditionally where a lot of things where media will get stuck a bit if it's not a direct linear path to sales right it's one thing if you're doing e commerce direct to commerce it's pretty easy to measure ad exposure and sales but if there's any sort of offline or latency or distance between that digital exposure and that actual conversion point, things can get really muddy really quick.

[00:07:30] Kelly: And I know that, or I believe that a lot of the mixed media modeling became up, became used a lot with CPG and trying to tie retail sales and connection off that when you're selling through a third party and through retailer in the sales data. And I know that traditionally there was huge data sets that were really required to get the confidence level and the visibility in the connectivity between those sales and the movement and the growth.

[00:07:55] Kelly: in correlation with the media investments, but I got excited when it seems like with that history and that evolution and some of the AI that large data set requirement that large investment requirement that really made it necessary to get to dip your toes in that water that barrier started to lower and it started to become more realistic for What I'll call smaller or more practical brands being able to kind of explore this and make it worth their while and make it part of their spends.

[00:08:22] Kelly: Can you kind of go into how you've seen it progress from maybe some of the, biggest companies and brands being able to take advantage of this and how that barrier of entry has been sort of getting lower and how you've been seeing, again, not necessarily the Coca Cola's of the world, but more. multi million dollar brands are even smaller, being able to actually put this into the mix and take advantage of it without that global footprint.

[00:08:41] Beatrice: Yeah. Yeah. So like for brands like Coca Cola, historically, when they were going to get marketing mix modeling done, they would bring all of their data and give it and it was more so just human analysis or human expertise to get some of that MMM reporting or media mix modeling reports as the output.

[00:08:59] Beatrice: Now, since Keen utilizes that AI platform and all of that data, a brand doesn't have to have that robust data set to really bring to the table because we have what we call priors, a lot of prior sitting in the background to inform a model to help them say, well, we don't need to know historically what you've done in meta necessarily, because we've seen Thousands of other spends, over the years that have invested in meta and the returns they brought back and we've seen, the industry that's been done in and how that's interacted.

[00:09:31] Beatrice: So that's 1 way that it's kind of bringing that barrier a little bit lower. Another way is just from a cost basis. So again, historically, you're really relying on human expertise, which is really expensive. Since we are driven a lot by technology, it cuts out a lot of that human effort. And so it's a little bit cheaper.

[00:09:51] Beatrice: You know, it used to be really expensive and only Fortune 500, Fortune 1000 brands could maybe even afford it. And that's not necessarily the case anymore. particularly when an agency like you all are offering it, you are really kind of taking it on at a wholesaler and part of your tech stack and offering it so that it's lowering the barrier even more.

[00:10:12] Beatrice: So that's two really great elements. And why it's all really important is that we're able to really. Look at marketing. Yes, how it's driving a brand and how it's growing a brand. But way beyond that, we can really dig into how, let's say, environmental factors are affecting a brand. So how is consumer price index or inflation affecting this brand?

[00:10:35] Beatrice: How is the hurricane hellion that just said, is that messing up a supply chain? And then you have to turn off one product is going to be out of stock for a month. How do you Bond to that in a marketing sense. so there's a lot of different ways that we can be really agile when we're in a tech based world, doing it by manpower and expertise like it used to be done.

[00:10:56] Beatrice: There's cost effectiveness, but you know, a lot of other things that it helps.

[00:11:01] Kelly: Yeah. I think you brought up a really good point there that I think is really important to understand about that marketing mix component of it, right? This isn't necessarily just. media measurement. It is the factors that drive the impact of media investments and all marketing investments across the board.

[00:11:17] Kelly: I think that's really important to talk through. And I'd like to hear where you've seen the biggest successes, especially again, not necessarily with the Fortune 500 and Fortune 1000, where they have all of that. But at that small level, what I found so valuable in the tool is, is being able to get the correlation between when we have certain things in market and being able to get confidence that there is a meaningful relationship between those investments and meaningful business outcomes, but also the forecasting and being able to highlight where you could go and where you could invest where you're over or under invested.

[00:11:48] Kelly: And then some of the things that you touched on, which is. Not everything in time. I talk about this all the time. Not everything is driven by the next Facebook impression or the next Google shirts. There are a lot of factors that go into whether or not media is successful. You mentioned a few. It can be economic conditions.

[00:12:03] Kelly: It can be sales indexes. It can be competitive pressure. It can be, shelving space. remember when we used one of these and we had a Yeah. brand that was very heavily driven in Costco and where they were actually featured within the store made a big difference on their sales. And we had to factor that in when we were looking at investments and going up and down.

[00:12:20] Kelly: So I'd love for you to talk a little bit more about again, how you use this tool, not only to validate what is and isn't working, but to also forecast what you can and can't be doing, and also how you factor in the non media variables. Amongst the actual media spends to kind of bring a whole story together.

[00:12:39] Beatrice: Yeah. So we're really looking at overall, of course, how marketing's working, but really driving that, that long term equity growth of a brand. So increasing that shareholder value. And when we're doing that, we're looking at profitability on an all years basis. So we're really measuring one top of funnel effects.

[00:12:57] Beatrice: So looking at brands that, maybe it's a brand that needs to hit a revenue number. to get a next raise or something in some of our future simulations, we can go in and actually simulate. What do they need to spend in marketing to hit 15 million in revenue? and then it'll tell them week by week where they need to spend when they need to spend, but then with their model, we're able to input those environmental factors that might affect them.

[00:13:23] Beatrice: So it could be the seasonality. It could be competitive data. Anything that you just mentioned. So when we're diving in there, there's several different ways to look at it, but each model we do is really dependent on each independent brand, and the different factors that they're looking at when we're looking at future scenario planning, we can do a myriad of things.

[00:13:45] Beatrice: So, if they already have a set budget, we can just optimize that budget for them and take it down to, the weekly spend and recommendations and compare that side by side. We can also look at hitting a revenue target. Like I mentioned, we can also look at just maximizing that profitability. So the point of diminishing return for a brand, finding out how much can they spend theoretically next year, but before that ROI on the dollar starts to decrease.

[00:14:11] Beatrice: So there's a lot of different ways to dive into that. and when we run these models, we're usually able to see. Different elements that drive our decisions. So let's say we're running a historic model of a brand and we see a really big revenue spike and we don't know what that means or what it's representing.

[00:14:28] Beatrice: We can go to the brand and ask them and we actually had one client who went viral on TikTok, which was fantastic, but their sales just skyrocketed overnight. Only for like a week though. And so we had to indicate to the model that, Hey, this was a viral TikTok moment. It's not going to happen annually or monthly.

[00:14:47] Beatrice: It's a one time thing. Hopefully not, but probably.

[00:14:50] Kelly: That just reminds me of the classic shark tank thing where they come in and they're like, we went viral and then the sharks just hammer them of like, that's awesome. But that's not an investable thing that is predictable going forward. And it feels like that's a real life example of kind of how that comes into the mix.

[00:15:04] Beatrice: Exactly. Exactly. So we had to tell the model that's fantastic, but don't, take that into consideration when we're doing future planning for next year, but take in their distribution or something that's increasing year over year, take that into account. so it's, client by client, definitely when we're looking at these things.

[00:15:22] Kelly: Yeah, we had our own more practical and real life example of this. One of the biggest clients that we worked in was a health care system and urgent care system. And engaged with them coming out of covid and the noise signal of what they were seeing. That was covid versus non covid. And the predictability is so much of the work that we had to do to isolate those signals and know what was short term and what was long term and how to predict.

[00:15:45] Kelly: Jim. And I think that really highlights my next biggest question for you, which is one of the things that I really liked around working with the platform was the ability to challenge some of the assumptions and to basically look at how can the dials be tweaked for the specificity of a client and a category.

[00:16:03] Kelly: We obviously used it in a very non, what I would call a very non traditional way, right? This wasn't retail CPG. This wasn't sales, right? This was patient counts And trying to tie it off into that, which, required looking at what is the latency, what is the regression model, what is the value Of a visit versus, what would maybe be going to a grocery store and buying something. and trying to really have an understanding on how do we make sure that we stress test the predictions that we deploy and also also going back and saying, okay, the model said that this should have happened.

[00:16:36] Kelly: Did it follow that? Were there variables that it didn't account for? Can we tweak? So the evolution and the growth and the ability to you. Use this in the right way. And I think this is a conversation you and I've had a little bit, especially with some of the upcoming engagements that we're looking at, which is it's all good and well to have good data and a good outcome with the platform, but it really comes down to, are you set up to do anything about it and to, pressure test it and to set hypotheses and most in go back and see what the outcomes are and adjust moving forward.

[00:17:04] Kelly: Is there an evolution to it? I mean, that's, to me, what gets so exciting on the platform is it gives this real. Point of visibility without the blinders that can be a single channel, right? It's not just CPA on search or row as on meta, but it is those things in combination with what it's driving more universally that lets us say, okay, we could spend more here or we need different messaging or we've reached point of diminishing return.

[00:17:27] Kelly: So really, that's what excites me is, is it just gives that insight and that confidence to tell that story. And honestly, where we've used the tool the most. Is trying to convey confidence to executive leaderships and CFOs and the people who maybe don't look at marketing as a, line item and an expense versus a driver of the business and our ability to connect.

[00:17:48] Kelly: Yes, we are. It is an expense, but it is an expense that results in the growth of your business and the opportunity. And, it's that classic saying, you have to spend money to make money. But we have to convey that confidence of, okay, if I spend it, it's not just going off into the ether and not driving anything.

[00:18:03] Kelly: And again, I think that holistic view is what makes everything work so well and why I think clients love this so much when they can afford to do it. Really.

[00:18:11] Beatrice: Yeah. Yeah. The most interesting thing I think I've seen is some of the brands that went dark after covid, even if it was just three months, what they needed to spend to not build up what they were making from revenue, but to build back their base sales.

[00:18:24] Beatrice: So just purely by existing. So, you know, a brand can see maybe only 10 percent or maybe only 5 percent of their revenue is being driven from marketing. But if they turned off marketing completely, we can see that their sales year over year, you know, it's going down significantly. Yeah. I think the average was that they had to spend three years more.

[00:18:43] Kelly: Nobody wants to accept that story. Nobody likes to accept. Well, but is the marketing driving? And certainly no one wanted to believe that the spike in the growth of COVID was ever going to go away and that there was any kind of anomaly to that. I think a lot of people got burned by that.

[00:18:57] Beatrice: Yeah, yeah, definitely.

[00:18:59] Beatrice: We could see we can see what people are spending marketing dollars correctly. We can see the base of the company. Just the base sales that exists purely by having your doors open increase year over year. and that's really the goal. That's that long term like equity build for that company that I know I mentioned.

[00:19:16] Beatrice: But, that's what we're really trying to do.

[00:19:18] Todd: going to jump in here with the next one. And, uh, this is a little bit of a, self promotion here. we've obviously had award winning success with your platform. and it was surprising to us, I guess. To some degree that the award winning success we had was again, not for a Coca Cola level brand.

[00:19:37] Todd: but we were able to knock off those agencies and those types of brands. and some of these big award categories for something that again, didn't really fit that bill. And I think it's a testament to how important. Agencies need or the level of importance agencies need to place in this particular sort of.

[00:19:58] Todd: Decisioning with clients. I mean, understanding diminishing return curves, probably one of the, the single most mathematically important things you can do, with investment strategies. I don't care whether you're investing in media or stocks or anything, diminishing return curves are, really, really critical.

[00:20:15] Todd: And so we were able to look at those things. Kelly was able to study those types of curves in your platform for this particular client. And it led to us making really. Great decisions that led to them making a lot more incremental money. and we want awards for that. So can you talk about either examples of industries that, that the product works really well in and, or, and this is an and or what's really the way that agencies and keen DS should work together to have successful outcomes like this.

[00:20:46] Todd: Like, I don't know if every agency has a Kelly. Who is going to live, eat and breathe in your platform to understand every single data point in there when he's thinking about investing in clients money. So does it require that level of hands on attention? Can you talk about the agencies, the relationship?

[00:21:04] Todd: What makes it successful? What's going to make it work really well? Are there specific industries that it works better for than others?

[00:21:11] Beatrice: Yeah, I mean, historically, like you all have mentioned, C. P. G. Was really the primary ingester of marketing mix modeling, but we've seen it work across a lot of different agencies.

[00:21:23] Beatrice: Now, um, education, any sort of just direct to consumer. it's really across the board. We've worked in finance. We've worked in hospitality. , sometimes if it's a industry that's a little bit Different. We'll have to get a little bit more nuanced and how we set up the model.

[00:21:38] Beatrice: But there's really no limitation in terms of what keen can do. we've even worked with franchises as well. So it can really be anything. and those are companies that they maybe have 20 different geo locations that they need to hone in on. So we can do anything there. The best way I've really seen.

[00:21:55] Beatrice: Keen utilized with agencies is when there is a Kelly or something, and they really are taking keen on and using it as a part of their tech stack and their decision making for brand. just because either the more you can learn it and the more you utilize it, the better it is. if you run a model and then you just have this historic outlook, which is oftentimes what MMM did, that's great, but it doesn't answer the question of, okay, now what do I do next?

[00:22:22] Beatrice: So people who can really. Input that, it's great when it's an agency because they're already making those buying decisions and whatnot. and strategizing on how much a brand should be spending. So that's usually the best way. , but we've seen, people do different things across the board.

[00:22:37] Todd: Well, I will just say that whether you're an agency or a brand, you don't have a Kelly digging into the platform. you're probably missing out on some really valuable Intel, and outcomes, for the business. So anyone listening, I would highly recommend looking at this product and making sure you have a Kelly, like person to run it with that Kelly.

[00:22:58] Todd: I know you've got, some more final stuff to discuss. Thanks.

[00:23:01] Kelly: Yeah. I mean, I think, I think a lot of times people sort of can relate to examples. And so I'll put you a little bit on the spot. It might take a second to think of it, but I'm just curious if there's anything that comes to mind where you saw a really big win with onboarding a client, or you saw anywhere that this uncovered a major loss or a major concern where it's like, wow, we would have never known that.

[00:23:23] Kelly: Or, You know where again, I used to ask these questions and in these scenarios like, you know, what's your best story? What's your worst story kind of things and again, I think people really relate to that and they can say okay Well, maybe that's something that's in there So does anything jump to mind where you've seen some really big?

[00:23:37] Kelly: Aha moments out of things or any like oh my goodness How did that go unseen those types of things? that people would potentially find interesting and relatable to what they'd wish they had in their business You

[00:23:48] Beatrice: Yeah, there's, a few. One thing that comes to mind recently is a, really large brand who is utilizing us, but they were underspending dramatically.

[00:23:57] Beatrice: And so this was, the team was talking to their finance team and telling them that they needed to spend more, but they were like, well, we don't want to spend more because marketing is only driving, let's say 3 percent of our overall revenue, but it was only driving 3 percent of revenue because they were leaving, Tens of millions of dollars on the table without spending more. So that's a case that we actually see quite a bit. if marketing is driving a low percentage of your revenue, that just means that you're leaving a lot of meat on the bone. It doesn't necessarily mean that just forget about marketing.

[00:24:27] Beatrice: Another thing is that when we work with brands who maybe they're, more so emerging, maybe they've been around for five years, maybe they're doing 10 million in revenue, maybe 15 million in revenue, but they, To that point, haven't really had any insight in what their marketing has been doing. It's more just that dartboard shot in the dark.

[00:24:45] Beatrice: That's always really exciting when we can see them find the results from a platform like Keen and then start to make informed decisions. because historically, you know, maybe they were just getting the reports back from Google search and picking that their ROI on search was fantastic and they should just spend more in search or something like that.

[00:25:04] Beatrice: And, you know, we come in and Tells them to slash their search budget or whatever the case is, but those are kind of 2 ends where we see those 2 things a lot on on both ends of the spectrum.

[00:25:16] Kelly: Yeah, I think, that's really where it is to me is again. And I've said this a few times in there.

[00:25:21] Kelly: think that this is the type of tool that is become more and more necessary for brands, anyone that can afford it to consider. I think the reliability on attribution, I think the direct path to conversion is getting noisier. I think it's, being able to really rely on a direct signal and a pure attribution.

[00:25:38] Kelly: I mean, that was always the promise of digital was. Hey, I can spend it all or know exactly what happened. And I just. I don't think that ever got fulfilled upon. I don't think it's practical in the way your average humor and human engages. online, you don't typically see an ad, click on an ad and buy that product, You might see the connected TV ad, and that might see the brand in your mind. And then you might scroll through Facebook. Maybe you don't click on the ad, but now you remember it. Then when you go to do a search, when that search comes up, maybe you click on that result because you remember the brand name, but if you'd never been exposed to it, you would have skipped right past it.

[00:26:12] Kelly: There's really no direct ability to see that. And this is the type of thing that I think starts to see at scale, how all of that works together, how all the moving parts in the machine really make it go when without that, it's so easy to say. Well, search is last touch and that always has the best attribution.

[00:26:29] Kelly: So let's just max that and everything else doesn't work. I remember that long debate about last touch attribution and how terrible that was. And, I kind of see a lot of people still struggle with that. How do I know? How do I know? And so, I think that's why I get excited. This is people that take the time to understand the practical human behavior that we're trying to drive.

[00:26:45] Kelly: Having a tool that gives you some insight and some believability with a measure of reliability, right? You guys have those R scores that tell you what we're telling you has a certain level of confidence. And I, think you guys have a threshold around 90 percent or so before you'll really say this is actionable.

[00:27:01] Kelly: So there's a reason to believe it's not just a shot in the dark because it sounds good. think it's so important. I think it's going to get more important as that line of sight into the connectivity between digital investments and end actions, especially offline actions, but even more and more, digital actions with more cookie deprecation and all this other signal loss that's in there.

[00:27:20] Kelly: that's why I see such a future for this and the combination of the need for it and the lower cost and the lower barrier of entry of making it practical for more brands is a really exciting place to be.

[00:27:31] Beatrice: Yeah, when, our co founder, Greg Dolan started in this industry, he said they were looking at print TV and radio and, that wasn't that long ago.

[00:27:39] Beatrice: So it is really crazy, to that point that interaction effect between the channels and the halo effect is just, it's just crucial. There's no way to really understand what's going on now without a tool like this.

[00:27:49] Todd: I would agree. So in closing, I would say to anyone listening to this, if you don't have a tool like this in place, you are missing out and it's not, like you said, it's not reserved only for the biggest fortune 100 brands anymore, smaller brands can, afford to get involved, with this product now.

[00:28:07] Todd: So I would highly recommend it since we're all in the business of advertising. My favorite question to end every podcast, with a guest is. Do you recall the last ad that you saw?

[00:28:19] Beatrice: Oh, that's a good one. Um,

[00:28:21] Todd: well, it tells us all how well we do.

[00:28:23] Beatrice: Yes. Yes, I do. I keep getting advertisements. The retargeting is pretty intense.

[00:28:29] Beatrice: for crazy clean. It's like something that you put in the back of a, in a toilet bowl for copper or stains or something. I've been getting a bunch of those a day. That's the only one that can go into mine though. So I guess they're doing the best job.

[00:28:42] Todd: You must have been talking about cleaning your toilets recently.

[00:28:45] Todd: And then your phone was listening and now you're getting served ads.

[00:28:51] Todd: Beatrice for joining us. we are big fans of the platform. we have, multiple client engagements now that we get to say we work with your products. So again, we'd highly recommend it to anyone listening. If they haven't checked it out, they should reach out to you. And check it out.

[00:29:06] Todd: Thanks for sharing some insights about the platform and, how brands and agencies can do better, which is always something Kelly and I are advocates for is that we all can do better. Let's figure out how to do better. And thank you. And we look forward to working with you and your platform more.

[00:29:22] Beatrice: Yeah.

[00:29:23] Beatrice: Thank you all. I appreciate it.

[00:29:25] Kelly: Thanks so much.