Insights Into the Evolving CMO Role with Juhi Pikale

[00:00:00] Kelly: doing things the right way will result in good things. And that's not always true, but I think it all comes back around. I think there's different concepts for it, like, you know, karma or all these other things, but.

[00:00:10] Kelly: Ultimately, I'm grateful and optimistic , and my advice to people would be to just continue to, to kind of follow that philosophy and that, truth and to do those things with the right intentions and know that, you know, even if someone takes advantage or things don't go that way you know, I think it all comes around for a reason.

[00:00:27] Kelly: And I feel very validated that we've been able to operate that way. And We're still here and we're still growing and still seeing mostly positive outcomes, even with bumps along the way.

[00:01:04] Kelly: Hey everyone, Kelly McGuire excited to talk about today's topic that be our last one of the year here.

[00:01:09] Todd: Yes, it is. Hey everybody. This is Todd, you know, Kelly's partner, and this is our final podcast recording of 2024. I think we've got about, this will be 31 or 32 shows recorded this year since we started this kind of crazy because I don't think either one of us ever really wanted to do this. But now that we're doing it, it's kind of been a fun thing to just give us the form to talk about stuff that we don't get to talk about very often.

[00:01:38] Todd: And we're going to go on break for the next two Mondays. So we're not going to record a show. So we'll be back in a couple of weeks. Hopefully everybody else is taking a nice break. So I thought for today, what we could do is just go through a little retrospective of 2024 from the business, any angle we want to hit sort of forward looking.

[00:02:02] Todd: Discussion about 2025 and I thought it would be good to sort of package it all up under the theme of gratitude. Because, you know, as as predicted, this year was not as robust as years past, which we saw coming into the year. But wow, what a change in Q4 and then just sort of all the things that happened in 24, all the awards that we won.

[00:02:28] Todd: And I know others that didn't, their businesses didn't fare as well. And I just have a lot of gratitude for the fact that you and I have been doing this now since 2009 together. You have pushed me off a couple of cliffs during that time into a very uncomfortable zone. But boy, is it, is it paid off?

[00:02:48] Todd: And I think gratitude is something I, personally need to do more reflection of and more sort of recall and, and expression of gratitude. And I think that's a good thing for us to talk about at the end of the year and talk about looking into, into 2025. So I'm going to start off. By saying, I'm grateful for you and your completely different way of thinking and behaving than me.

[00:03:13] Todd: Cause it, it always puts me into an uncomfortable. Yet relief mode where I'm like, gosh, the things you do, the way you do them, I can't figure it out sometimes. And it makes me uncomfortable, but then I have so much relief knowing that you're doing what you're doing. Cause it always works so well. And I'm, grateful that we have found a way to build a company together.

[00:03:37] Todd: I just won, but a couple of different companies together. And we don't hate each other. Like we've heard the horror stories of some business partners. And It's just been a really neat complimentary thing that I think the two of us have been able to put together. And so I'm, I'm going to just start off saying I'm grateful for you partner.

[00:03:57] Kelly: Yeah, I mean, I, you know, I, I appreciate that. And, and obviously right back at you. I mean, I think, you know, I think it's a complimentary relationship that we've been able to form. And I'm grateful to have the bandwidth to do the things you just described that I do without having to worry about all of the other things that I would not want my brain power and energy and attention going towards that.

[00:04:17] Kelly: That you handle and, and honestly that the rest of our team has shown up and, and provided the, the runway. I mean, I think there's been a lot of growth and a lot of evolution. It's been interesting for me where I think for a long time, especially in this entity, I've had to be further into the weeds and, little bit closer to the end of the line executions than what I've had to be this year.

[00:04:43] Kelly: I mean, I think a lot of our team has, Continued to step up and, you know, there was a long time where if I had to go to a conference or be away, or not that I take vacations, but if I ever wanted to that, you know, I wouldn't really be able to be away for very much. It felt like as soon as I stepped away, it was this weird.

[00:05:01] Kelly: I don't know if I noticed it more or if it truly did ramp up, but it felt like anytime I'd be away from the day to day. I'd have to be stepping in and jumping on emergency calls and doing all these things. And, and this year I felt like that hasn't happened a lot. And I think that's, that very much speaks to our team and the growth in the understanding of how we do things and the ownership that they've been able to take on the clients and the relationships that we've formed with the clients.

[00:05:27] Kelly: You know, again, not that I can be away for a long time, but I can feel really good about things are handled and people are comfortable and taking those types of things. So I'm grateful that I don't have to be as involved in both the things that you do, as well as a lot of the things I used to have to be even closer involved or more worried about that, that I've gotten able to have a little bit more freedom from.

[00:05:52] Todd: Yeah. an interesting evolution, isn't it? Like you and I have been so hands on doing every part of the business that there is to do. This year I would agree it's the, is the first time where I think I've seen you be able to step. Not for the purpose of stepping away, but just to do other business related things where, like you said, you didn't have to check in constantly.

[00:06:17] Todd: There was a degree of confidence that things would get done. I've had the same on my side. The more operations side of the business with some addition of staff support on my side of the business. And it has certainly done that. For me as well. And I think that's, I mean, that's where I believe for a small independent agency of our size, probably where we should be operating right now.

[00:06:43] Todd: And that the gratitude for our teams taking on the emotional intelligence and the capability and the desire and the passion to sort of run the ship has been pretty cool to see because we've, we've got young people who started You know, a couple of young people have started as coordinators who are now in command of, you know, our biggest relationships.

[00:07:08] Todd: We have people that have grown into director level roles who are now hiring and training and mentoring other employees. And it's just been a really neat sort of thing to see evolve. It's not obviously not been without its challenges at times, but for the most part. Yeah, wow. What, what a team we have to be grateful for that has been able to do everything that we have set a vision for to accomplish as a company, and then when awards that obviously they're all pay for play, but you still got to pass the sniff test to get the award or pass some sort of qualifications.

[00:07:50] Todd: Right. and we've done that. I'm pretty impressed and pretty grateful that we've been able to accomplish that. I

[00:07:57] Kelly: Yeah, I mean, I think it's been very validating on that front where you know, you always make the joke that I've, I've made you kind of jump off of a couple of cliffs and a lot of that has been based off of the, the fundamental belief that we share. And I think what makes us good partners is that if we.

[00:08:12] Kelly: You know, if we build this business on the right values and the right philosophy, and I know that those are words that are bandied about in companies a lot, core values and principles and all that. But I think when it comes down to brass tacks, it doesn't always play through that way. I think a lot of things happen in other ways.

[00:08:28] Kelly: And, you know, we really had this belief that if we built something and did things the right way and really focused on it, that even when it wasn't the most savvy business decision or, you know, You know, when there's hard things to kind of come through that it would kind of work out and, you know, we took a lot of faith that we'd be able to recruit and find extremely talented people that could fulfill on the promises it takes for us to be able to get the client relationships that we develop , and actually fulfill on those promises and, and show up in that way.

[00:08:56] Kelly: And , I'm really grateful that we've, found a team that not only Has bought into that and fulfilled on that background, but has really grown it and expanded it. And, you know, there's been multiple times this year that we've heard different people say that, and this is a little bit self aggrandizing, but they were the best agencies that they've ever worked with. Yes, I like that. You know, when we look at the financials and we have, you know, the growing and the awards and all that, that's great. But , that ultimately to be able to deliver on that, because that's what we're aiming for. And to hear that come through, that's the most validating, grateful. And that, doesn't happen just because of you and I, right?

[00:09:34] Kelly: That happens because we have an entire team that is working incredibly hard and going above and beyond and fulfilling on those philosophies and, and doing things in a unique way that we asked them to do in a unique way. Right. wouldn't say that we've, you know, I've worked at a lot of different agencies, big and small, and we definitely have chosen to do things in a different way.

[00:09:55] Kelly: And we found people that are willing to go on that journey with us and fulfill on that in a full way to get those outcomes. And I'm the most grateful around that.

[00:10:04] Todd: say it's more than willingness. I would say there's a, there's just a strong desire. you know, we've heard it from people that have come from all the other companies or agencies that, , like you said, it, regardless of what the, the stated values might be or the company mission, it seems like maybe some of that gets lost, you know, just to sort of gets pushed to the background and it's not really an everyday thing and it's probably not an everyday thing for us, but I think.

[00:10:30] Todd: It is enacted upon and reinforced by you and I and how we conduct ourselves and how we talk to our teams and our clients about , what we do, how we do it, why we do it, what we expect from it. I think a lot of people get a very sincere and genuine sensibility about you and I about the things that we do say we actually put action.

[00:10:54] Todd: Behind it. And again, it's, it, a lot of it has to do with just being grateful from where we've come and what we've had to do to get here and then being in a place where we can express our true, sincere values and beliefs as, as people, you, you as who you are and your background and upbringing, I think shapes a lot of the way that you treat those around you.

[00:11:20] Todd: Whether they're employees or friends and same, same with me. I know for a fact that my background and upbringing and career sort of history has taught me to be the way I am. And I'm, I'm very grateful for those past experiences. Some of them very, very difficult and painful, but those are the things that shape you or shape us in life going forward to your point, I don't want to leave out either my gratitude for the clients that we have.

[00:11:48] Todd: Man, they're awesome. Like, you know, I, and I think every agency or every company that sells a service could say, Oh, we have great customers and we have customers that, you know, make us want to scratch our eyeballs out. we've been pretty fortunate to not have the ladder. And it's, just wild to me that this year we have had, or in the last couple of years, we have had clients that, I mean, the relationship chemistry is like, it's uncanny.

[00:12:15] Todd: It's borderline, like, uncanny to me how close and intimate and just good, I don't know the right words, but like, You know, you know, the relationships I'm talking about. We have, we have all of them are great. And then some of them are just over the top, like bestie type things. And I'm, I'm grateful for those, not because it makes it easy, necessary, but I'm grateful because it validates.

[00:12:44] Todd: I think everything you and I have set out to do, and to your point, when we have that response mechanism, whether it be from an employee or a client, that's got to be one of the most gratifying things that validates what you and I set out to do with this particular company almost seven years ago.

[00:13:03] Kelly: Yeah, I mean, I would agree a lot. A lot of this is built around us. A combination of, of we've gotten really good clients in the door, but also an openness to developing and nurturing those relationships. And like any relationships, there's been new people that have, you know, good people that have moved on and new people have come in and we've been able to foster and carry those, those basis of relationships through to those, those new people and create that, which yeah.

[00:13:32] Kelly: Again, I'm grateful that there's an openness. That was a theory that we took. We didn't know for sure if there were going to be clients out there willing to to go after a more premium service to kind of go against the grain a little bit, right? We always make the joke that. You know, no one tends to get fired for hiring the known name that with the background, because even if they don't do a great job, you can still say, but their X name of what was I supposed to do, but taking a chance on a new entity that's going to do things in a different way.

[00:14:04] Kelly: Maybe. The pricing on the surface looks off and different, but, you know, taking that, that leap of faith, you put yourself on the line a little bit. Because if it doesn't work out, you made that decision and it, and it wasn't the known quantity. And so the fact that we've gotten people willing to understand that they're ready for something new or different and being open to it.

[00:14:23] Kelly: And then also showing up on their half of the relationship, right? It can't be a one way driven relationship where we're trying and giving everything like they have to be open and willing and want that side of it. And we've been really beneficial on that side of things and having that understanding. And I think it's also been validated in something that I've gotten very excited about for this year.

[00:14:43] Kelly: You know, we've had some, some circumstances that have caused us to go in the market and get a little bit growth and, and do some recruiting and, and some interviews. And I've been very encouraged, albeit also impatient that we've had some great candidates that from what I've heard have selected us as their top choice because of the way they go through and people I've looked at and be like, wow, there's, there's some untapped high end talent that's ready to be unleashed.

[00:15:09] Kelly: If given the right frameworks and I, you know, I I'm flattered by the fact that we tend to be appealing to those people. And I'm also encouraged by, Hey, if we can develop growth, we can get more people willing to take those leaps of faith, you know, we can go and grow this thing and follow this philosophy.

[00:15:27] Kelly: Just do the work that is that Vujadej experience. Is that different than the norm experience for bigger and greater. And I'm grateful that the market is showing some appetite or openness to that. Even if it, if it's a little bit longer process to get there,

[00:15:44] Todd: Yeah. Well, that's always been our model. It's more, it's, I, there's a couple of analogies that I always come back to in our business. And one is what I called college beer theory, which was quantity over versus quality. What, what night were you going to have that Friday or Saturday night in college? Was it quantity or quality?

[00:16:03] Todd: And some, most nights it was, it was not about quality. It was about quantity. But occasionally if you had the money, it became. Yeah, I've got the money. I want to, I want something good. I want something better than the norm. I want something different. I'm going to go after quality and I've always sort of equated us to that.

[00:16:22] Todd: And, or I always think about this other thing too. This is, this reveals a little bit about maybe some of my, my interests in things, so I, I've always been an active Howard Stern listener. I mean, God, from back when he started and there was one comment that. quoted, I think it was in his movie, and it was something to the effect of How much people hate Howard Stern.

[00:16:46] Todd: And I think this is back to when his show was really kind of vulgar and, you know, not, not the interviews that he does now with the presidents and stuff like that, but it was the quote about how people hate Howard Stern, but they have to listen to them because they just can't wait to hear what he's going to say next.

[00:17:04] Todd: And I think we've had clients quote, almost similar things when they've awarded us business, where they've said. You are so different in your approach in, in your sort of way of thinking and talking about how you would AP approach a relationship for business for doing what you do. That I had to award you the business.

[00:17:26] Todd: 'cause I just wanted to see what you were gonna do next because you were so different. And that's always been a goal of mine and I'm grateful that we have heard that actually quoted from our, from clients that we've won that they did pick us for the reasons that. Our brand promise is meant to convey and.

[00:17:48] Todd: Yeah, from you to the team. I'm grateful.

[00:17:51] Kelly: yeah, but think about how easy that would be right. It would be so easy for that to be a surface engagement, right? For us to say those things and to sell what it takes to get someone to do the hard part is. Is after that, right? That there's always this joke in entrepreneurship, right?

[00:18:08] Kelly: , the idea that raising money isn't the end of a journey, right? It's the beginning. Like know, everyone feels like, oh, I got a big investment. I won the game, but no, you're actually just starting and you're going through that, right? That's kind of how it is with the client where Once you win that client, once you get that engagement, that's not a win.

[00:18:25] Kelly: That's, that's a start to an obligation now that you have to fulfill on everything that got you there. And, and that's where I think a lot of that gratitude comes in is that we're able, and I'm able to, to sell those things, knowing that it can actually happen. And that what we talk about is something that we have the capability and the team that's going to go through and, and actually show up and do those things.

[00:18:47] Kelly: I would I would be miserable if I felt like we got promises and I was like, yeah, that's never going to happen. We're never going to come through around or I was like, man, we just sold that vapor where we sure better go figure it out and hope for the best or collect as long as possible. Like, that's not that methodology.

[00:19:02] Kelly: So the ability to show up and convey that confidence of we can do this great thing for you. We can be different for you. We can promise these things because we can actually live up to them. That is all down to, again, a group of people and an environment and a validated methodology that is, proving more and more in the end, you know, and I'm grateful that the market starting to recognize that we've never been big about awards, but.

[00:19:27] Kelly: You know, we see what that does and that there's recognition. And so we we've entered those arenas a little bit and we've been validated there. And, , it does feel good. It is nice to kind of know that it's not just in our heads or those types of things. So all of that is things that that's really nice to have and have that comfort level.

[00:19:44] Kelly: And I think it's having that confidence. Of a strong foundation to grow from and now having a market where I see Really growth opportunity for us to continue to get talented people that want to show up in this way is something i'm eager and grateful for as well

[00:20:03] Todd: Well, I'll just say this. I'm grateful for the judges of all those award shows that actually saw the value in what we're doing and the way we're doing it and, did decide to cast a vote in our direction versus the more obvious, well known names and players that usually win all, all this stuff. So, all right, well, let's, let's shift gears.

[00:20:21] Todd: So that's, That's sort of retrospective lot to be grateful for great business, great, great team that we have underneath us or our side alongside of us, I should say. Sometimes I feel like they're above me as well and, and just grateful for the client relationships that we've been able to cultivate and, and have the loyalty with next year coming up.

[00:20:45] Todd: You know, looks like another knock. It's not going to be another lay me down year where it's just money is going to come flowing in the door. We're going to have to work hard and continue to do what we do and show up every day delivering our brand promise. What are you, what are you thinking about being grateful for for about next year?

[00:21:05] Kelly: Yeah, I mean it's a continuation of what I said I mean one of the things that I won't say I was sad about but you know, I had wishful thinking about was You We had so many great interviews and I'm like, I want to hire all these people. And I want to find people to deploy this great thing and deliver this great work and give those things to.

[00:21:22] Kelly: So, you know, that's kind of what I'm looking at next year. And I'm sure everyone from a business perspective is looking at where, where can we grow, where can we bring this thing, you know, to bigger and better things and, you know, continuing, we've explored partnerships and we've talked about engagements, not just client relationships, but bigger relationships with.

[00:21:41] Kelly: With other entities and other groups and similar like minded people. And where can we bring those things in? I'm excited for that. I'm looking forward to showing up in the more the industry things. I mean, the more and more we've come out of. Covid and lockdowns and getting the more in person events and conferences in that circuit and being recognized. You know, last year I got more and more into that and I got back more in person and it reminded me that in all of the entities we've been through together like we did start it's it's a small world that we work in and the people that work in it are, you know, good people and being able to say hi and recognize people that work at other agencies and other entities and other clients and and be known like that's always fun coming from where we're at not being a giant entity, but still having a presence and showing up and being on these panels and doing things is.

[00:22:29] Kelly: It's fun and it's good. It continues to get more and more and getting back to that and just fostering our place in the, the overall ecosystem is something that is going to be kind of cool going into next year.

[00:22:40] Todd: I would agree. I think I'm looking forward to yeah, more of the in person stuff, doing more with our partners seeing our team grow and expand. I think we're going to see some growth and expansion. I think the biggest thing I'm maybe grateful for that seems like it could be on the, on the horizon for 2025 is for the first time and, almost 20 years that I've worked with you. We might be identifying someone who can come in and ride shotgun with you. And I, I'm probably more excited to see how that plays out than anything for 2025, at least from what I can see on my radar right now I'm grateful that it's not going to be an election year.

[00:23:18] Todd: I'm grateful that, you know, maybe things will settle into a more normalized pace. I mean, there's a lot of other stuff going on in the world, but at least here in the U S I'm glad the election year is over and we can just all settle into our leadership and how we're going to. get through what we're doing for our country.

[00:23:36] Todd: The next four years, I'm, I'm excited by and grateful for that being resolved.

[00:23:42] Kelly: I'm excited to release some, some technologies that we've been working on and seeing and testing out and exploring the market more. And, you know, I think, you know, those are some long roads that we've been able to, to take some bets. I know we've tried a few things here and there on the side and there's some, some projects and things that we've always explored.

[00:23:59] Kelly: There's a few that'll come fruition. , one is many, many years in the making and a fun, fun game type space that I'm finally working to get in. And some are some big opportunities in the, in the social and commerce space, and some are in the presentation technologies that are AI driven. I know we've had some great partner AI conversations, so I'm excited to continue to explore and use some of our experience and expertise to see what kind of cool, not necessarily just side things, but just really interesting and valuable.

[00:24:28] Kelly: Components that we can put in the world that I think solve serious problems. In addition to the service component that our business drives.

[00:24:36] Todd: I will say I will be the, I will, hang a star in my gratitude in 2025. If we release the app that we. I've been working on for 10 years now, I think eight or nine years, maybe. Or maybe it's 10 years, maybe it's longer. I don't even.

[00:24:52] Kelly: a decade. Yeah.

[00:24:53] Todd: Yeah. Every ounce of blood, sweat, and tears that you've put into that.

[00:24:56] Todd: I will, I will bow down in gratitude for that. Finally going to market in the app stores. So we'll talk about when that happens. All right. Well, any final thoughts we can wrap on just a great year, a great team, great Just good, happy, healthy, all around. I feel so fortunate to be in this company with this group of people.

[00:25:20] Todd: And again, you know, I say that partly because I know other people haven't been as fortunate and. And that sucks and it's painful to hear and know that people have gone through that stuff. And I wish I could do something for everyone. We've donated money to people this year that were in need. Just because it's the right thing to do.

[00:25:40] Todd: And I would, and I will always do that for anyone that you and I can help. fi, if finances is the way that helps, you know, happy to do that with our company and I'm grateful that we can do that with our company. I'm grateful for the trip that our investor took us on to Spain, and I'll just say that

[00:25:57] Kelly: of bucket list things. Yeah. That was fun.

[00:25:59] Todd: of bucket list things happened this year that we should cite.

[00:26:01] Todd: And I'll just wrap on that, that it's been a heck of a fun, great year. And I can't wait to see what 2025 has.

[00:26:08] Kelly: Yeah. For me, it's definitely a, it's an element of sometimes I get worried that I might operate from a little bit of a naivety of, you know, doing things the right way will result in good things. And that's not always true, but I think it all comes back around. I think there's different concepts for it, like, you know, karma or all these other things, but.

[00:26:27] Kelly: Ultimately, I'm, I'm grateful and optimistic , and my advice to people would be to just continue to, to kind of follow that, that philosophy and that, that truth and to do those things with the right intentions and know that, you know, even if someone takes advantage or things don't go that way you know, I think it all comes around for a reason.

[00:26:44] Kelly: And I feel very validated that we've been able to operate that way. And We're still here and we're still growing and still seeing mostly positive outcomes, even, even with bumps along the way. And so, yeah, I think that's, for me, the biggest takeaway is just operating with the best of intentions in the best way and, and believing that that's the right thing to do, no matter what along the way.

[00:27:04] Kelly: All

[00:27:05] Todd: You are an internal optimist. I will, I will agree with you on that. all right, well, let's wrap it up. I will see you on this show in a couple of weeks or next year in 2025.

[00:27:17] Kelly: right. I hope everyone has an amazing kickoff to the new year.

[00:27:20] Todd: Yep. Happy holidays.