Reinvent Yourself: Building a Life You Love with Mike Shubic

[00:00:00] LuRae: Welcome to the show. And today I have a special guest, Mike Schuwick. We've known each other years back and have reconnected. Mike, welcome.

[00:00:11] Mike: Thank you so much, Luray. It's a pleasure to be here.

[00:00:13] LuRae: Share a little bit about yourself and your journey, where you started and where you are now and how you got there.

[00:00:20] Mike: Sure. Well, I've, I've worked in marketing most of my career, I would say off and on work, the client agency and media sides of the business. However, in 2010, I became a professional travel blogger, travel writer and video content creator. Uh, somehow finagle the way of getting paid to travel the world, which has always been a dream.

[00:00:41] Mike: I've loved travel for a long time and, uh, ended up publishing a book and, um, doing some speaking engagements and also offer freelance marketing and content marketing, uh, services.

[00:00:54] LuRae: Now, very cool. We're going to, we'll give your info at the end so people can get in touch with you. Yeah, that's awesome. That's quite a rollercoaster journey.

[00:01:02] LuRae: So yeah, what led you to decide to shift and go travel the world? That sounds pretty amazing, actually.

[00:01:11] Mike: Well, uh, so I was the director of marketing for a large yacht dealer in San Diego and around 2006, I ended up moving back to Arizona. I had a house that was just sitting vacant and I started a web development online marketing firm.

[00:01:28] Mike: And then. The 2008 financial crisis happened, so I had lost most of my clients over the next year and had to lay off my team and really didn't know what the heck I was going to do with the rest of my life. So I had to let my house go. I packed up my sold most of my belongings, packed up what I had left and I went on this.

[00:01:50] Mike: epic road trip to kind of figure out what the heck I was going to do with the rest of my life. And so I had a blog with my company. And so I had some experience with that. And I thought, well, I'll just create a travel blog, just to kind of keep my friends and family up to speed on where I was going, what I was doing.

[00:02:09] Mike: And lo and behold, by the end of the year, this website, this travel website named Mike's road trip. com, the best travel tips blog of the year. I was like, Oh my gosh, people are actually reading this. And so just like one thing happened after another. I, in 2011, I went to a travel conference in Vancouver BC and I discovered that there were other people out there traveling, not only traveling like me, but they were also making a living.

[00:02:36] Mike: I was like, how is this possible? And so that kind of really changed my life and then 2012 I did a travel channel show called best of the road and that really catapulted me into the travel sector. I still struggled for the next couple of years but by then I was now starting to get press trips and things.

[00:02:57] Mike: Wow, that's

[00:02:59] Speakers 1: cool.

[00:02:59] Mike: So, you know, you remember this back in the day people would spend. 50, 000 destinations, I should say, would spend 50, 000 for a full page ad in USA Today for one day. Right, right. That all that was shifting. And so now people were starting to pay content creators, journalists and stuff to go to their destinations.

[00:03:22] Mike: And the transition was happening where fewer people were spending money in print. And so now destinations had all this money and they needed to figure out how to market. And so. The contrast to that is now travel writers were now out of jobs at newspapers because they didn't have the revenue coming in from the advertising.

[00:03:42] Mike: Right. Destinations discovered, well, they had to pay writers and bloggers to come to their destinations to write and promote it. Right. Right. Oh, yeah.

[00:03:52] LuRae: So you leverage that. Where have you been? Like, share a little bit about that. I've

[00:03:57] Mike: been to over 50 countries, um, oh, countless cities. Uh, 49 of the 50 U. S.

[00:04:04] Mike: states, Alaska still eludes me, but I might be going there in September. Uh, so I've been to Finland, I've been to Indonesia, I've been to China, I've been to the Philippines, Germany, Czech Republic, the Maldives, Sri Lanka, the list goes on.

[00:04:22] LuRae: Wow. So, so cool. So, uh, of your I guess lessons on the road or just experiences while you were there, like, what were some of the ahas that you were surprises?

[00:04:37] Mike: Well, I think it's really important to be adaptable, especially during, you know, through travel these days. Um, so, like, I, I have a funny story that happened to me around, 2012, I was going to, uh, Puerto Rico on a press trip and my, and there was something going on with one of the airlines. I think Delta was going on strike or something.

[00:05:01] Mike: And I just had this feeling that my, my flight might get canceled. So I was at the ready. So indeed, it got canceled. And I was on the phone right away, rebooking it so I could make the press trip and, uh, end up meeting this NBA star who he was like seven foot one. And he sat in the middle seat right next to me on that airplane.

[00:05:28] Mike: And, uh, I was like, what the heck he's in the middle seat. He was the last passenger on the plane. I thought I was going to be. In that row with a little cushion and this guy sits next to me and we strike up a conversation and he was flying to Chicago for a pinball tournament. And so this is a long story, but it's actually in my book, Line Signs and Forks Diary of a Nomadic Road Tripper.

[00:05:53] Mike: It is a fascinating story, but that book is about some of these extraordinary, um, Stories, these situations that occurred or that happened to me over the years.

[00:06:02] LuRae: Oh, interesting.

[00:06:04] Mike: Yeah.

[00:06:05] LuRae: So I'm just wondering what, who influenced you in, on your journey to even transition? I know you, you know, the economic piece, but there's, obviously you had lots of options of things you could have done.

[00:06:22] LuRae: So I'm just curious about that.

[00:06:24] Mike: Well, okay. So I'll, I'll tell you a little bit of the inspiration. So I, as a kid growing up, I really didn't get an opportunity to travel much. I mean, I went to Disneyland with my folks once, but we, we didn't really do a lot of travel other than to family. Uh, so I started dating a woman in my early twenties who really bit me with the travel bug.

[00:06:45] Mike: And, um, that's really where I fell in love with travel. Uh, but when you say I had a lot of opportunities. Actually, I didn't because in 2008, 2009 through 2011, unemployment was really high. I

[00:07:02] Speakers 1: met

[00:07:03] Mike: people along my journey who had been quite wealthy, who were now renting a room. I rented a room from a woman who her and her husband, their monthly net was 55, 000 a month.

[00:07:15] Speakers 1: Wow. They

[00:07:15] Mike: were rich. And now she is so not poor, but she is so desolate that she has to, um, uh, rent a room to somebody.

[00:07:25] Speakers 1: Oh, interesting. Yeah,

[00:07:27] Mike: so it was a very challenging time. So it took a while to kind of figure this whole travel blogging thing out.

[00:07:34] LuRae: Right. Absolutely. Oh, I can't even imagine.

[00:07:40] Mike: But I was also a nomad.

[00:07:42] Mike: So I had really, I didn't have a lot of bills.

[00:07:46] LuRae: Yes. Which is the beautiful part of it, right? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I think during that time I was, I was heading, heading to New York to work for an ad agency, which it was only through that, through a recruiter, I guess that I want, you know, when I'm heading that way, it wasn't that I was necessarily pursuing only, well, I guess I was to a certain extent pursuing because I'd always wanted to live in New York.

[00:08:10] LuRae: But I would just say, you know, if you look at, responses of people around you. I mean, we, we typically get so kind of conditioned or programmed that we have to stay a certain course or we do without looking at other options. So how did, how did people respond when you started doing what you were doing and how did you overcome any kind of comments that may have come your way?

[00:08:36] Mike: Yeah, my dad was not thrilled. My dad spent, you know, 27 years same company and this idea that I was just going to kind of leave my traditional life and just. He just thought it was ridiculous. A lot of people did and I did as well. I'm like, I don't know what the heck I am doing. This is, this is ridiculous.

[00:08:56] Mike: But, and the fact that I ended up becoming, being able to make a living off of it was just, I don't know, the grace of God, who knows. Yeah, and I would say tenacity and, you know, plays a big part of it, you know, if you if there's something you're really passionate about and you can, you'll figure out a way to make it work.

[00:09:14] LuRae: Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. What advice would you have for people who are maybe, They know what they're doing currently is not what they're meant to be doing, but they feel like they're trapped or they don't have any other options. Do you have any words of advice or insight you would share?

[00:09:35] Mike: Well, you know, taking the path I took is definitely not for everyone.

[00:09:39] Mike: It takes The other thing too is I don't have kids. I wasn't married. Um, it made it a lot easier for me than for a lot of other people. We get tied down with our belongings. So once I let my house go, I had no responsibilities. It really was a freeing experience. I have to say when I, when I got rid of my house and I was going through selling stuff, getting rid of stuff, I was like, Why did I waste money on this?

[00:10:09] Mike: And it really was this eye opening experience that why, why are we all wrapped around things, acquiring stuff? And I think we've been brainwashed. This is part of the capitalistic system, I guess, in some sense. And it was really an eye opening experience. So since then I have lived a really frugal life with not a lot.

[00:10:31] Mike: Uh, I really traded a lot. material things for experiences.

[00:10:37] Speakers 1: Yeah.

[00:10:38] Mike: Now that's not for everybody, but it, it, it, it worked for

[00:10:42] LuRae: me. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. I don't know if you've heard the George Carlin stint where he talks about the stuff, you know,

[00:10:49] Mike: I love George Carlin.

[00:10:51] LuRae: We have so much stuff and then we get a storage unit to hold our, we have a house that holds our stuff.

[00:10:55] LuRae: And then when we have extra stuff, we get a storage unit to hold their stuff. Yeah.

[00:11:00] Mike: Yeah. Yeah. It was a great skit.

[00:11:02] LuRae: For anybody listening, yeah, if you haven't seen that, go, go search for George Carlin's stuff. Because it, it's so true. We, and then we, we start to define ourselves. Look at how people will be at times with their cars or.

[00:11:19] LuRae: They're handbags or, you know, I mean, I feel like I, I went through a summer kind of thing during that time because actually my house was on the market when I had moved to New York and it wound up getting sold on a short sale because the sale originally fell through and I was already moved, you know, and then at that point I was renting a house in New Jersey commuting into the city.

[00:11:40] LuRae: And I got rid of almost everything when I, when I moved in that and was very liberating. I did get a storage unit just for like photos on that kind of stuff that I didn't necessarily want to, because I didn't know how long I was going to stay in New York, you know? And so, but it is, it's that journey of awakening, realizing.

[00:11:59] LuRae: I'm not my things we experiences are something you hold forever and it

[00:12:08] Mike: allows me to really communicate with a broad audience and relate to people because I've experienced so many different cultures around the world, uh, different foods and everything. I remember I was in Washington DC one time and we, we went to this Ethiopian restaurant never had Ethiopian food.

[00:12:29] Mike: And it was such, we're very excited, but we were telling the server, we're like, Hey, we've never had Ethiopian food. Can you recommend something? And she looked at us like we had a third eye. She couldn't believe that there was somebody in the world who had not had Ethiopian food. Mind you, this is Washington DC.

[00:12:47] Mike: It's not Ethiopia. And it was fantastic.

[00:12:52] LuRae: So good. Yeah. So good. But

[00:12:55] Mike: I would say, you know, back to Suggestions or recommendations to people. I think from my experience, um, to piggyback on what you were saying, it really is a freeing experience when you're not tied to your things of

[00:13:10] LuRae: what. What we wisely would be transitioning to and again, the way the world is changing some qualities that I would love to hear you talk about that.

[00:13:21] Mike: Yeah, I think authenticity is probably like the number one trait that people gravitate toward. However, being totally authentic today is such a challenge without being diplomatic. And it's, it's kind of a rare thing to find somebody where everyone gravitates to that person. I was mentioning like Matthew McConaughey.

[00:13:43] Mike: I'm a big fan of his or, or Keanu Reeves has a great reputation or, or even Sandra Bullock. Uh, these people have kind of these authentic personalities that maybe they're just great actors. I don't know. But, um, there's another person we both know, Jay bear. Uh, I've known him for many years. He's a marketing guru.

[00:14:04] Mike: He's just a guy who has that personality that everyone really admires, respects, and enjoys being around. But I think being authentic is so difficult because we're being pulled in so many different ways. So in the travel sector. To go on a press trip or whatever, you're beholden now to perhaps say something nice, even maybe if you didn't have a great experience or something.

[00:14:29] Mike: And so I think those types of outside influences affect us all and prevent us from being fully authentic.

[00:14:37] LuRae: Right, right, right. I'm curious when you think of things that you took away during that experience where you're like traveling and so many places, what things from that experience have you carried forward now and how you live life currently?

[00:14:57] Mike: Well, one thing is I think I have a, I just have a, an appreciation for different cultures and the way different people live around the world. I'll never forget. I was in Indonesia and I was on a big press tree trip and several of us. Did not we were participating in something. We're like, you know, we'd rather get out and go see stuff So we're walking around the bowels of this big city and it's a poor poor area like I almost think that if If somebody's going to go to college today They should be required to do a semester abroad because travel is like your greatest educator So we're walking around these shanty homes and everything.

[00:15:42] Mike: I mean it is not You A pretty area,

[00:15:46] Speakers 1: but

[00:15:46] Mike: we're walking around and we're walking through this labyrinth and all of a sudden we see these three kids playing in like this sewage water scavenging for anything of value. Wow, they see us, they turn and they see we're Caucasian, which we stand out and they are just so happy to see us.

[00:16:06] Speakers 1: And

[00:16:06] Mike: so they didn't speak English, but they were, they saw our cameras. So they were trying to pose and everything. And then we're walking through the streets and we have people following us. They're just fascinating. They've never seen a Caucasian person and these people are coming out of their homes and they're wanting to feed us and everything, and they have nothing to offer.

[00:16:26] Mike: And I mean, it's like, people have no idea in the United States what horror is.

[00:16:31] LuRae: Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

[00:16:33] Mike: Horror here is having basic cable without HBO and Showtime.

[00:16:39] LuRae: Well, and I think it's a bit mind blowing when you think of how many people Never live, sometimes even travel outside of the state that they're in, or have never lived anywhere else.

[00:16:55] LuRae: I think I had that realization, you know, going to New York that like living there, that was a place that a lot of people aspired to live. To go in their lifetime and yeah, so,

[00:17:09] Mike: Oh, it's funny. I was in Hawaii once, uh, I was on Kauai and I don't know if you've ever been to Kauai, but it's not a very large island.

[00:17:17] Mike: Like you could literally walk the whole thing. It might take you eight hours or something, but you could walk it. And I was on an ATV tour and there was a kid that it was a family run business and the kid was our tour guide. And when I say kid, he was a young adult. Right. And I said, have you, um, you ever get to the mainland?

[00:17:37] Mike: He goes, no, no, never been. I said, how about some of the other islands? And he said, no, no, never been to any of the islands. I'm like, he said, I haven't even been to the other side of this island.

[00:17:49] LuRae: Oh my gosh. I'm like,

[00:17:50] Mike: wow. And I met a guy in Nova Scotia who had lived, he was probably about 70 years old, had lived his whole life.

[00:18:00] Mike: and had never traveled more than five miles from where he lived.

[00:18:03] Speakers 1: Oh my goodness. Wow.

[00:18:06] Mike: Yeah. That stuns your perspective on life, I think. Well,

[00:18:10] LuRae: I think probably contributes to us not having, as you just said, that respect for other cultures where, you know, one size does not fit all, where it's not all one way or another way.

[00:18:23] LuRae: You know, there are just, there's a rainbow of countries and people and experiences and, yeah. An opportunity, just things to experience that it's, you know, I encourage anybody listening to this because I was at one point the head of global media, so I got to travel to, you know, the places as well, Singapore and China and, you know, over to Europe and, you know, it, it opens your eyes to just the reality that, you know, This is, this is one place that there are so many others, which makes I think your experience.

[00:18:56] LuRae: So when did you stop? Like when did you and what, what got you to stop? Well, you know,

[00:19:02] Mike: um, I guess maybe it's almost perfect timing because I remember, I don't know who it was, but some CEO once said, you should reinvent yourself every 10 years. And I don't know if it's been by choice, but that's kind of been my path.

[00:19:17] Mike: And so I had been traveling for 10 years, almost. Non stop and then COVID hit

[00:19:26] Speakers 1: and

[00:19:26] Mike: that really affected what I was doing. I mean, when travel just stops and then the tax revenue stops as well, these destinations don't have the same kind of resources they had. Prior. So, uh, yeah. So for the last couple of years, I've been trying to, uh, you know, reinvent myself again.

[00:19:46] LuRae: Yes. So maybe you want to talk a little bit about that. Like, what are you doing now? And yeah,

[00:19:51] Mike: well, I, I have a couple of pieces of property in Arizona and one of my dreams has always been to build a custom home, but You know, the housing market just exploded in 2020, 2021, and you couldn't find a contract or whatever.

[00:20:07] Mike: So I was looking at prefab homes and not mobile homes, but homes built in a factory. And come to find out, there was one. That was opening in Arizona in page

[00:20:20] Speakers 1: and I

[00:20:20] Mike: reached out to the CEO to find out more about the company and everything. And we just kind of hit it off and started talking and he said, you know, one day he said, what would it take for you to move up to page and be my vice president of marketing?

[00:20:34] Mike: And, uh, so we worked out some details and so I, I moved up there and I learned through writing the marketing strategy and doing all the branding stuff. I learned a lot about the industry

[00:20:46] Speakers 1: and I

[00:20:46] Mike: really believe we're kind of moving toward that, uh, where homes are going to be built in a factory from an employee perspective.

[00:20:53] Mike: It's way better than to build in 110 degree heat in Arizona or, you know, frozen tundra in Minneapolis in the winter, right? And so, um, that kind of led me down this path where I worked for that company for about eight months. It didn't work out. It was really one of the most remote places in the country, 300 miles from any big city.

[00:21:15] Mike: And so I, then I started seeing this affordable housing It really exploded where it's becoming so unaffordable to buy a home and it is becoming a privilege rather than an earth right.

[00:21:32] Speakers 1: And so

[00:21:33] Mike: I started a foundation called the Dwellwell Foundation. Uh, it's called Dwellwell. Foundation is the website. And the idea is I have a 3 pronged approach to help address this.

[00:21:44] Mike: It's uh, innovation, education and advocacy because 24 percent of the cost of a new home is taxation and regulation, burdensome regulation. It's so complicated. To get a house built these days, and we have about a 7 or 8 million house deficit in the United States and our population is exploding right now.

[00:22:10] Mike: So this is, in my mind, a much more pressing matter than. Sending money to Ukraine and Israel and stuff like that. The foreign aid is out of control. We have so many problems in this and housing.

[00:22:28] LuRae: I agree with you there. So is that what you're primarily doing? Are you doing that and other things?

[00:22:33] Mike: Oh my gosh.

[00:22:34] Mike: So as you, I have this entrepreneurial spirit and my biggest problem is that I have just ideas and I have so much I want to accomplish in my life and so many So many things I want to do and I don't have the bandwidth. I don't have the funding. I don't have the, you know, the various resources. So yeah, that is one area of interest.

[00:22:55] Mike: I also have a website called go travel dot video. The idea is to curate some of the best travel videos around the web and categorize them to make it much easier for people to find videos of interest. Because everybody is watching videos these days.

[00:23:10] LuRae: Right. Absolutely. That's another

[00:23:12] Mike: thing. The other thing that throughout my marketing career, I've managed many projects, uh, from software applications to websites.

[00:23:20] Mike: Trade shows, you name it. But I've never been formally trained in project management. It's a big thing in a big industry and a big demand right now. So I am just on the tail end of getting my Google project management certification and in project management, so.

[00:23:37] LuRae: Oh, very cool. Well, I always say it's a never stop learning, growing and Mm-hmm, and taking on new information because.

[00:23:45] LuRae: Everything is constantly changing and AI is popping in my head right now. And just how I was just

[00:23:49] Mike: thinking that too.

[00:23:50] LuRae: Yeah. So it's just shifting, you know, every industry is being affected by, you know, you use it like this is really interesting. So it's interesting. And then a little alarming. Oh,

[00:24:04] Mike: yeah, absolutely.

[00:24:06] Mike: But I do believe we have to be life learners.

[00:24:09] LuRae: Yes.

[00:24:10] Mike: You just cannot stop learning. And I am as well, very concerned about AI because its level of intelligence is incredible. And I've been asking for a long time, like, what is the value proposition of a human? If a robot and AI can do everything way better.

[00:24:26] LuRae: I think our nuance of having a soul and I think in the marketing area, you know, that Honestly, you can use AI to create content, but then you have to put the human element, the human emotion, that you really can't get.

[00:24:42] LuRae: They get, it gets close, but it's not quite the same.

[00:24:46] Mike: Oh yeah, I'm not comparing it to a human. What I'm saying is from a marketplace. Then fast forward to the internet. You know, people were might have been dabbling with the Internet in 1990, but that was well before the World Wide Web came out,

[00:25:00] LuRae: right?

[00:25:01] Mike: No one could have anticipated the transformational change that the Internet had on our lives.

[00:25:07] Mike: So I think in that sense, It created tons of opportunities for people, and AI will do the same.

[00:25:13] LuRae: Yeah, absolutely. So I would say if I'm going to jump to a summary of, of inspiration or encouragement that you might give people listening. We touched on this a little bit before, but what final bits of advice would you have for someone who wants to blaze their own trail and Try something new, but are a little reluctant to take that first step.

[00:25:39] LuRae: What would you say to them?

[00:25:41] Mike: Well, I think you have to have a commitment to doing it. I think discipline is really the recipe for success. So if you're overweight, you need to eat fewer calories and burn more calories. But you need to be disciplined about it. Um, if you want to succeed in life, you need to be a life learner.

[00:26:03] Mike: And the Adapting to some of these changes that are at the forefront and you also have to make time for what's important. I mean, today I find in my own personal life. It's frustrating where you have a lot of friends who don't make time for their friends. Their time is all consumed with work. Or their kids.

[00:26:24] Mike: And what also it does to the parent is if you're consumed by just those two things, then you're not fostering friendships or relationships or, um, you're not learning new tasks or skills. to make yourself valuable

[00:26:41] Speakers 1: and

[00:26:41] Mike: or going after your dreams because at some point, you know, in this particular example, your kids are going to grow up and then you're going to be going, what the heck am I going to do with the rest of my life?

[00:26:51] LuRae: Yeah. Empty nest syndrome is a real thing. I think actually even after leaving the, even the corporate role, I like the labels that we get accustomed to. to calling ourselves, like, what do you do? Instead of saying what you do, you say your title. I am this person. And, you know, and so when you, once you step away from that, you then get, you, you either go through the process of defining and getting back connected with your true authentic self, or you're lost.

[00:27:24] LuRae: I know I became a life coach when I was in, in New York. And one of the exercises we did in the training was the circle of life. And, we would look at each aspect, you know, where I live, spirituality, friends, family, all those, you know, career, how satisfied and give it a percentage. And, and then where, and then you'd fill in the percentages were, and you'd see, you'd have a wheel that was out of balance.

[00:27:50] LuRae: So you could see, okay, I'm really not where I want to be in this area. And then you can commit to, okay, I'm going to do something about this to, to be more in alignment. with myself. So

[00:28:02] Mike: yeah, alignment balance. I think they're both kind of at the same plane. And yeah, absolutely correct.

[00:28:09] LuRae: Yeah, such an interesting journey.

[00:28:12] LuRae: Interesting path. I wasn't surprised at all when you shared about the COVID experience because so many people, anything to do with travel during around that time was, was definitely

[00:28:23] Mike: I was a contributor for Lonely Planet, and of course, they're not wanting to pay for travel articles and stuff because No one's traveling.

[00:28:34] Mike: So it just was, it was a very challenging time for everyone. And you know, I believe, um, travel, here's an interesting stat. Uh, well, one it's, uh, the second largest GDP in the world. And two in 25 years, uh, we have gone from 400 million international travelers or visits Right. To 1. 3 billion. Wow. It's a massive industry.

[00:29:02] LuRae: Massive increase. Wow.

[00:29:05] Mike: Yeah.

[00:29:05] LuRae: Well, you're definitely adaptable, open to learning, open to change, and inspiration to other people to do what you see in front of you. And don't be afraid to figure it out. You don't have to know every step on the path. Right. Bye. Just take the first one and go in a direction you're committed.

[00:29:26] LuRae: Like you said, discipline. Be committed. And I

[00:29:30] Mike: think humans innately are kind of resistant to change, but we live in a world that's changing so quickly

[00:29:38] Speakers 1: that

[00:29:39] Mike: we have to be more agreeable to it, I guess. Yeah,

[00:29:42] LuRae: yeah, yeah. So share again your book, the information on where people can find your book and where they can find more about you and how can they get in touch with you?

[00:29:49] Mike: Oh, sure. Well, they can check out my travels at mikesroadtrip. com. My book at linesignsforks. com.

[00:29:57] LuRae: I will link those below in the show notes. And thank you so much for coming on the show and sharing your journey. And well, it was my

[00:30:08] Mike: absolute pleasure. It's been way too long and I'm so glad we got to reconnect and maybe we can meet up for coffee.

[00:30:15] Mike: And if you ever need to have me on again, I'd love it.

[00:30:17] LuRae: Awesome. Sounds great.