Your Team Is Only As Strong As Your Weakest Agent with Karlton Utter

Karl [00:00:00] it's the number one reason that experienced agents switch brokerage is because of a leader. So if somebody's leaving you, it's not because they don't like you, it's potentially because they just feel like Their business can do more under somebody else's leadership.

Brooke So here's something that I hear from team leaders constantly, "We just can't find good agents." And for a while, I took that at face value. Then I really started to actually look at what was happening inside these teams, and what I found was that agents were already there, and they've really been there the whole entire time.

Brooke They just never got built. And most team leaders aren't losing to bad hires. They're losing to a development system that just doesn't exist, frankly. So today we're gonna get into when to hire, when to develop, and what it actually costs you when you confuse the two Welcome [00:01:00] back, everyone. I am Brooke Rieke, client success manager here at Reside Platform.

Brooke as you all know from previous episodes, my job is working directly with real estate teams, onboarding, operations, systems, accountability. Frankly, I just see what's happening inside teams every single day. And then joining me today is someone that I've been wanting to be doing a podcast episode with here for a while, Carlton Utter, our director of agent training and development at Reside.

Brooke Carlton, tell us a little bit about you and what you do.

Karl Sure. So I have the privilege of overseeing all training and all of our agent development, as it states in my title, which includes- Mm-hmm ... looking at all of our different training programs such as Rise and Amplify, which we've recently launched, as well as putting together individual training coaching programs to help support the team leaders and anything that they need.

Karl We're here to help those team leaders really grow their business and help all of the agents in our Reside network be successful. So whatever it takes.

Brooke Absolutely. [00:02:00] As you can see between the two of us, we're seeing teams from all different angles. I'm watching, mainly what's happening operation, operationally and systematically, where Carlton's watching what happens with the agents themselves and within the team leadership and really the growth and scalability.

Brooke and the thing that I think we keep running into from both sides is that most team leaders are solving the wrong problem. So I really wanna get into that today. Carlton, I wanna start with, how hiring is marketing, as a marketing decision and development's really a culture type decision, because I think this is where team leaders are confused the most.

Brooke when I see a team isn't producing, what's the first thing they do? they hire. can you explain a little bit about what you've seen with teams on what that instinct is as far as that first phase of the hiring process?

Karl Yeah, look, everybody wants to grow, right? If you're not growing, you're dying.

Karl That's what I've always said. Mm-hmm. Like, you, you get a, you have a level of business that you wanna be at, and quite honestly, the easiest and [00:03:00] fastest way to start to get to that level of business and to create marketing opportunities for you in your local market area, it's to recruit agents.

Karl Mm-hmm. Now, here's the challenge, is you have a lot of folks that recruit for the sake of recruiting because they think they have to, but they don't understand what it really means. And I always look at recruiting as it's strategic growth. Right? It's quality over quantity. Or it's okay to hire a lot of people if you have the systems and processes and support systems in place to ensure their success.

Karl it's not fair to agents to just wanna recruit them and then not have a system in place to help them be successful, and to just think that agents are gonna come in and magically fit in your culture and magically gravitate to all your tools and your products and your systems, and just go out and do it's an unrealistic expectation.

Karl Now, some will. You have some extroverts that come in and it's just like, "Hey, let me [00:04:00] go, and then I'll learn all the tools and programs." And then you have other people that are more introverts that come in, it's like, "Well, let me learn it all. Let me make sure I take time." And then you have some that are kind of in between.

Karl Mm-hmm. And you have to figure out how to set up systems to support each of those different types of groups. Not everyone is gonna be successful immediately. It doesn't mean that they won't be successful. And other people might have success right away, but there's no longevity to it. So how do you continue to get success out of them so they don't fall into that trap of in their first three months like, "I'm a superstar.

Karl Everybody knows me. I got five deals pending." Mm-hmm. "And all the business is gonna come to me." And then it all closes, and they don't have anything to work, right? Yes. So it's just really finding that balance and looking at how much time, effort, and energy are you really putting into not just recruiting, but the systems and the support to help those recruits so you get organic growth out of them.[00:05:00]

Brooke Mm-hmm. And I love that you just said that because I see this constantly on my end, where a team leader might reach out and say, "Oh, hey, production's down," or can't get my agents to do something. And then I pull up their CRM, and I look at their team roster, and I see that half the team hasn't logged in the last 30 days, or there's a whole pile of leads that haven't even been touched or communicated with at all.

Brooke and I think that the conversation they wanna have is about finding new agents, but not a lot about focusing on the ones who they already have sitting quiet. so in your opinion, what's the actual difference between a hiring problem and a development problem? How do you diagnose which one you're actually dealing with when you're talking to teams?

Karl Yeah. I think it comes back to this, right? First of all, does recruiting solve all of your problems? Yes, it does. Mm-hmm.

Brooke Right.

Karl Right? I've seen it firsthand in almost every company I've been with, whether it was at a local market level or it was at the 10,000 [00:06:00] foot view running teams that we're supporting with recruiting.

Karl it does make a difference, but it's going to come back to understanding what you're trying to achieve through recruiting, right? And it's hiring to specific needs. So it shouldn't just be, my business plan is to recruit, right? That's the concept. So what are the strategies and tactics behind it?

Karl So what I want you guys thinking about is, okay, I am a I don't know, a $20 million team, and I wanna get to 50 million, right? You have to stop and really break it down and look at, okay, to get to 50, that, that means I need to add 30 million in production, right? So then what you need to do is take that and say, "How much of that 30 million am I gonna hire from or bring in from experienced agents?"

Karl Right? Mm-hmm. There's a- there- there's two total different audiences with recruiting. Experienced agents and new to the business agents are two [00:07:00] totally different things. And then even with new to the business recruiting, you can even start at the fact I'm gonna start getting in front of them before they even go to real estate school and control that aspect of the business as well, is am I actually feeding the real estate schools and getting in front of them that early, right?

Karl Mm-hmm. So it's two total different approaches, but it's all gonna stem from if I need to do 30 million in production, h- what percentage of that is gonna come from experienced agents? Is that 20 $1 million producers you're gonna hire? Is it five, or I should... Four or $5 million producers that you're gonna hire?

Karl Like, strategically, what do you need to do to get to that 20 million? And then if you need another 10, well, how many agents are you gonna hire that are gonna get you to 10 million in that first year, right? Mm-hmm. So if you're finding that your agents coming in are averaging a million, right? Or averaging 500,000 a [00:08:00] year, like, how many of those do I need?

Karl Or how do I improve my system so those new agents are doing more business? And how am I taking those existing agents coming over with their five million and turning that into seven or eight? Mm-hmm. Because I have some additional lead flow or whatever it might be that you're bringing to the table that's providing more business to them.

Karl So it's really breaking it down at that level, and then having a game plan. So when you're hiring people, it's not just, "Oh, I hired another one. Let's see what happens." Mm-hmm. It's, "I hired this person, and I need 1.5 million out of them this year." Yeah. "I hired this person with the expectation that it... They're gonna be a $7 million producer for me."

Karl And now you have that written down. You're working towards getting them to that level. You're setting the expectation that this is what I need from you, and you guys are working together on that. So it's just really having a much [00:09:00] stronger game plan behind I wanna hire 20 people and do another 30 million this year.

Brooke Yes, absolutely. Absolutely. Right? I love what you're saying about a game plan because, like we, we opened this is a lot of teams say, "Okay, well, yep, I trained them. they're, they went through my course," or they did the script practice training," or whatever it w- was. But what does it mean,to have a foundational game plan?

Brooke Like, what are the, what does that actually look like versus what you're seeing with a lot of teams where it is just, "Hey, here's the script book and here's the Zoom," Yeah, it- Like what does foundation training need to look like to actually bring development?

Karl Well, I think you have to start

Karl there are two answers to that. First of all, y- it's a lot of work up front putting systematic approaches to our business in place, and it gets overwhelming to people, but once you put it in place and you create habits that go along with it, it kind of runs itself. Mm-hmm. And it helps your team adjust to the [00:10:00] growth that you're looking to have happen, meaning, I mean, put a system in place of what does your interview process look like.

Karl Like, if you have a $5 million producer and you're meeting with them, have your agents in the office so when they walk in, like, there's activity, there's people, there's positivity, they're getting a feel for the culture and they're excited about what's going on. And put their name on the board, "Hey, we're welcoming so-and-so in today."

Karl Like, make it an event. Like, but put it in place so you're doing it for everybody, so it's just, "Oh, we got another recruit coming in. This is our system. This is what we do. This is our approach." We have fresh flowers in the office. Right. We make sure we're, we make sure we're there first so they're not showing up to a closed office or a meeting location, or you're just doing it somewhere where there's, there's optimism in the air and activity happening so they can feel that energy, right?

Karl So it's putting the recruiting systems in place for what does it look like when I'm meeting somebody [00:11:00] thinking about getting their license, somebody who's recently licensed, and somebody at an experience level. and then even think about, well, what does the onboarding and training program look like?

Brooke Mm-hmm.

Karl here's the thing is as a team leader- And I'm kind of looking at when I moved into leadership, right? I moved into a management role. So whether you call it a broker in charge, a manager, a regional VP, whatever the title was, I was the manager. I was in charge of a real estate office of, at the time, 65 agents.

Brooke Wow.

Karl And I trained for that role. Like, I had weeks of training and programs and meetings and shadowing of other managers, and I had a regional vice president who I was constantly communicating with as I learned how to manage an office of 65 people Like th- there were systems in place. Like I had it all down, our recruiting, [00:12:00] our presentations, every aspect of how we did the business, I walked into systems.

Karl As a team leader, you might not necessarily be getting that level of training, and you're kind of learning it on your own. Now, that's what I love about Reside, is that's what we do, is we support that. and I love that we get to do that because I feel like there's so much potential there for folks that could take their business to the next level because they now have...

Karl I'm not trying to make this a Reside commercial, but look at the support we provide because they don't get that, right? So whether you learned how to sell real estate at a franchise or a, at an independent company or just on your own, but now y- you have to think about, okay, what does it mean to be a leader, and what are my systems?

Karl And, and- Yeah ... you have to like relearn that whole approach because bringing these agents in, you wanna look at, okay, what is our formalized training program? What does our onboarding look like? What does our [00:13:00] shadowing look like? How many one-on-one meetings am I having? Am I setting expectations? Here's all the training that we're offering in office.

Karl Here's all the training that Reside is offering. You need to be on that, right? It's setting the expectation because i- I've never understood how an agent who's brand new to the business comes in and is not on every single training program they can pos- I don't know what else they're doing. Like, if you're a full-time realtor, you're working 40 to 60 hours easily a week.

Karl I don't know what else you could be doing brand new. Even if you have one client that you're already ha- like you should still have enough time to do every single thing that's being asked of the team leader- Mm-hmm ... and every single thing that's being asked of the Reside training program, and you should just be going all in with absorbing as much as possible.

Karl So it's putting that system in place. I like accountability forms. Mm-hmm. I like saying, "Look, if you join us, this is what your [00:14:00] day looks like. This is how you time block. This is where I need you to be." And then having them just sign it. So at any point where if they're not showing up, they're not taking the training serious, you find they're making excuses to not be there, you pull them in, you say, "This is what you agreed to."

Karl Yeah. "And you're not holding up your end of the bargain. We are putting in the time, effort, and energy to develop you, but you're not holding up your end." And I think that's okay, right? Yeah. I think it's, I think it's okay to hold agents accountable. Again, it's about quality over quantity, right? Right. That doesn't mean I'm not gonna give people a chance, but if I identify quickly that they're blowing off training, they're not taking this serious, that this is a hobby and not a career to them, and I can know that upfront, then I have some decisions to make on how I'm gonna be utilizing them on my team

Brooke Absolutely.

Brooke That's, I say the same thing to [00:15:00] teams as I, start meeting with them and, kind of coach with some of their operations team is, it's a real big red flag when the first week and you s- you lay out very clearly, "Hey, this is exactly what you should be doing," and they're just straight up not showing up, or things aren't happening.

Brooke it's one thing if they reach out and say, "Hey, I'm feeling stuck. I'm feeling overwhelmed." and you can talk about that, right? But just to not have any sort of communication around that and just not put in the effort, I mean, it's like you can't do that with a regular nine-to-five job, right?

Brooke I mean, this is your career and you can't want it more than somebody else. And so I always say that's a great indicator right away of is this going to work out or not,with this agent. and I think to back up a little bit, where I see teams fall is they have, existing agents that have gone through their, their, the recruiting and onboarding process, and still don't have the skill set.

Brooke And the team leaders will look at that activity and say, "Okay, this agent's lazy. They don't want [00:16:00] to,don't wanna make the effort." But it could be, hey, this agent was never taught what they, what to do, and w- what, how to handle objections when something doesn't go perfectly, which we know in real estate nothing goes perfectly.

Brooke so, they get trained maybe on that best case scenario, and so I see that pattern a lot. And so I think it starts there of, hey, if you already have these existing agents that have gone through your recruiting and onboarding process, and they're not where you need them to be, I think it's a great time to start looking at what is that process exactly, and what foundational pieces are missing from that would get them to where they need to go.

Brooke And then again, like you said, Carlton, having that accountability measure behind it. that's something I always tell teams as well, is, hey, you need to have stop gaps in the process of almost like a gate of can they move through? Are they ready for leads? If they haven't, if they're a brand new agent and they haven't done mock MLS searches and sent them over to you for your review, or they haven't done,mock, agreements [00:17:00] or written out some mock contracts, so they're not calling you at 10 o'clock at night with their first deal.

Brooke they're not doing mock presentations, script practice, all those things to check the boxes. And you're, by the way, need to track that. you need to have those gates of, okay, have everything been done, the- these first 30 days to allow you for lead readiness or whatever it might be. But having those places, those things in place where you can say are we good to move forward?

Brooke And I think a lot of times what I see with teams is that they don't have that in place, and all of a sudden it's 90 days later and they're like, "This agent's not any, have any more skill set practice than they did day one." So, I love what you're saying. Well,

Karl I would look at it this way, is,I'm a big believer is new agents-

Karl the faster you can get them to treat this like a 9:00 to 5:00 job.

Brooke Right.

Karl Now, it's not, but the faster you can get them to buy into that there is something to do every hour of the day, and, I shared this at our Oceanside event, is your new agents, [00:18:00] they should be getting a call from you every morning and every afternoon.

Karl Mm-hmm. "What are you working on? What do you need? What are you doing today?" Like, unless you see them in the office or you have a meeting with them, like, it's gotta be, "What are you working on today? Oh, nothing? Well, here, I have some leads for you to call." Like- Yeah ... it can't just be, "Oh, I haven't seen that new agent in a few days.

Karl Maybe they'll come to training this week," right? It's i- if you want them to be successful, they have to feel a little bit of that pressure, right? Now, some are gonna come in and just naturally do it. Mm-hmm. Let's back it up a notch, though, is- As a team leader, right? And I hope this comes across the right way, but you have to recognize what you're really good at and what maybe you're not good at.

Karl Mm-hmm. And you're obviously very good, for anybody in our Reside program, you're obviously very good understanding sales and growth, and leading a team, and development, and your business acumen, and all of that stuff. [00:19:00] But a lot of times, like you may not have the patience to do recruiting and onboarding, right?

Karl it may just be like, "Look, I don't wanna, I don't wanna make the calls every morning to the agents. I don't wanna take them and have them shadow me in an open house. I have bigger and better things." It's, it, there's always like levels of leadership, right? Right. Of, and you have people that love what they do and are good at what they do that specialize on certain things.

Karl So i- if you really feel like recruiting and organic growth of your agents, so training, development, career development, whatever you wanna call it, is a priority, but it's not what you think you're best at, find somebody to come in because it's gonna pay off. Like, if you can get your agents to do one more transaction because they have a mentor, or they have- Mm-hmm

Karl a trainer that's giving them something or showing extra attention to them that maybe you can't provide at that time, maybe you have somebody that can dedicate more time to [00:20:00] recruiting and follow-up, and all of those steps that need to take place. That, that, that might be the first thing that you do, is bring in a career development specialist- Mm-hmm

Karl or a coach on your team that can really work hand-in-hand with these new agents, because it is a commitment. And if you're a rainmaker also running a team, right? You're getting called to appointments, and you're here, there and everywhere, and you got a seller that wants to put a $1.5 million home on the market, or you have a new agent appointment at the same time.

Karl Which one are you going to? You're probably going on the listing appointment. So if you have somebody on your team that can help support you, or you bring somebody on Now, if you love doing it, great. But you've gotta, like, just like we would tell the agents to, you need to time block and make sure that you're dedicating time specifically to recruiting, development, follow-up, training, coaching.

Karl Even just, like, you look at our programs Amplify and Rise, and we have a lot of [00:21:00] registrations, and you look at the percentage and there, there's a pretty, not a lot, but there, there's a decent amount of folks that miss the class, don't complete it, don't show up, they wanna move it to another month.

Karl Like-

Brooke Mm-hmm ...

Karl how are you holding them accountable to making sure... I mean, we're doing it on our end, but also you wanna look at are they going through these programs and doing what I'm asking them to do? Mm-hmm. So it's just that accountability piece. You'll hear me say it over and over again with the agents.

Karl and don't think just because it's an experienced agent they know what they're doing. Mm-hmm. It's a whole new system, and if you're trying to take their business to another level, like, to just have them come over and let them go and think that's gonna instantly improve their business, they still need to know what you know.

Karl They need to know what we know. They need one-on-ones to... They need to... They want that attention. The number one reason, and this has been consistent for as long as I've been in the business, the number one reason that an [00:22:00] agent switches brokerages is because of their leader

Brooke Did

Karl you know that, Brooke?

Karl If-

Brooke I don't think I knew that was the actual reason, but I could guess if you asked me. Like, why does an agent leave? It's due to the, I would probably have said culture, which comes directly from and shadowed from the team leader, so that makes

Karl sense. A lot of people think it's,commission split, right?

Karl Right. 'Cause that always comes up. I will tell you guys, it, it's the number one reason that experienced agents switch brokerage is because of a leader. So if somebody's leaving you, it's not because they don't like you, it's potentially because they just feel like they can get more. Their business can do more under somebody else's leadership. Marker

Karl So, like, you guys need to look at, like, that's what you need to sell people on, and that's what you have to make sure that you're putting a strong system in place to support. Because if an agent buys into you, y- you can't just be on for those recruiting meetings, and then they come over and they say, "Here's a desk and a phone.

Karl Good luck."

Brooke Yeah.

Karl [00:23:00] Right? It's y- you have to... y- you can't sell them a bill of goods and not support it. So, like, they're coming over because they're excited, because they think you're gonna take, I'm meeting with Brooke, and I'm like, "Man, Brooke is gonna take my business to the next level." And then I come over, and Brooke's like, "Great, I'll see you at training next week."

Karl Mm-hmm. Or, "Go on this Reside class." And it's like hands off, and you're like, no, I thought we were working together. Like, I- Mm-hmm ... I thought we, you were gonna give me... like, we were gonna partner." and then you're hands off, and they're not feeling it. And so, like, when they first come over, like, what's your program to really get them to buy into the culture, to buy into what you're building, to really be a strong team player?

Karl They're called teams for a reason. It's 'cause every single- Mm-hmm ... person on your team is important, right? This is why I love how teams are developing over offices, right? Offices are just full of independent contractors. Teams, if you're on a team, it means you're all working towards the same thing. Right?

Karl If you're on a [00:24:00] baseball team, what are you trying to do? You're trying to win the game. If you're on a football team, you're trying to win the game. Even if it's an individual sport, in golf, right? You're still, like a golf team in high school, you're still trying to accumulate enough. You're working together towards a common goal.

Karl Where in offices, it's everybody has their own individual goals.

Brooke Mm-hmm.

Karl You guys ha- you know, you wanna have some fun, do some just some basic team training-

Brooke Yeah ...

Karl with your agents, and get them back into understanding how you're working together, and make sure they know what your goals are. Make sure they know what you are trying to accomplish.

Karl This is- Yeah ... I gotta tell you, this is where so many, like, office managers and team leaders go wrong, is they don't get their agents to buy into what they are trying to accomplish. They don't come right out and say, "Look, we're, we wanna be a, a $50 million company this year, and I need everybody to hold up their end of the bargain.

Karl What are you committing to?" And- Yep ... that's why, part of my role [00:25:00] is to come up with new stuff. I'm actually building out for each and every one of you a, a business planning workshop in a box that you'll be able to deliver with your team this fall. I'm a big believer in doing- I'm excited

Karl business planning in October and November.

Brooke Yeah.

Karl So I'm gonna be doing business planning workshops. I'm gonna be doing Train the Trainers with you guys. So we're doing business planning workshops for the agents. We're doing Train the Trainers for you as a team leader so you understand how to host and run your own business planning workshop in your office, and I'm gonna provide you the deck that you're gonna be able to customize.

Karl Because it's so important to set expectations.

Brooke Mm-hmm. Absolutely. I'm really excited about that, by the way. I'm so excited, to see where that goes, and it's just such a big piece of value and something that's so usually skipped. but I wanna highlight something that you've talked about, because I completely agree that I think when agents don't feel coached, they don't feel supported, and then they leave, and then the team leader's now spending, six months or so trying to replace [00:26:00] them and place that- replace that production, which then becomes a cost problem 'cause it's, now more expensive than spending, maybe 30 minutes a week with that person, coaching them and holding them accountable.

Brooke I actually did this math once for a team that was cycling through agents every four to six months, a couple agents at a time, and by the time you factor in what the cost for recruiting, the onboarding, the lost leads, missed production, it r- really added up. And so I wanna talk a little bit more.

Brooke You'd mentioned, one-on-ones and accountability conversations. For somebody that's not used to that, what does that sound like when you are casting the vision, and then holding that agent accountable to their commitments around that?

Karl Yeah,I'm a big believer in one-on-ones. it got a little crazy when I had an e- an office with 85 agents trying to do- Yeah.

Karl a one-on-one every month. what I actually ended up doing was I tried doing the one-on-ones every month, and when I had about 60 agents, I could do it. when we got up to 85, what I started to do is actually put them into, like, pods or groups.

Brooke Mm-hmm.

Karl [00:27:00] And what I would do is I would meet with them as a group.

Karl and then if they had... I was always available, too, for got-a-minutes, right? So if they needed anything, they knew they could get hold of me. But I actually did one-on-ones in pods when we got to be too large. But, look, the meetings, it can't be, "So how are things going? What's new with you? What are you working on?"

Karl Like, this is why I'm a big believer in business planning, and day one of our Amplify program is all of those agents should be writing out a full business and marketing plan and presenting it to their team leader. That's part of that class. Because when you have it written down, you have a higher chance of accomplishing it, and now you have a common, you have a common objective that you're working towards.

Karl so if the team leader has a copy of the business plan and the agent has it, now when you're sitting down doing your one-on-ones, you're looking at the business plan saying, "You committed to this, and this. Where are you at with that?" Right? "You said you wanted 10 listings this year. Right now you're at two.

Karl So what are you [00:28:00] working on? Who are you working with? What are you doing to market yourself?" Like, think about each and every one of you when you have a coaching call with your coach, right? It... What are you trying to accomplish? What do you want to get out of that meeting? What is the coach doing to get you motivated and excited to take the next step?

Karl So I would be looking at, I always like, I call it the Oreo effect, right? It's something positive, something Not necessarily negative, but maybe a challenge or something to overcome or a change that you need to make in your business, and then something positive again. So, like, what I would be doing is, "Hey, it looks like you've done a bunch of open houses.

Karl That's great. How many folks are you meeting with the open houses? Tell me what you're doing to have success, because you're averaging five to six people an open house. All right, here's what I'm finding is now I looked in Follow Up Boss and it looks like, you have 50-something people, but you're not actively showing any properties.

Karl So let's talk a little [00:29:00] bit about what you need to do to get some business, because if you have 50 people, you should be actively showing two to three clients' homes every weekend at this point," right? Mm-hmm. And so, and then it's, "But here's something else that you're doing great," or, "Here's what you're gonna work on and here's the expectations," right?

Karl So you're finishing with something positive. But you don't want one-on-ones to just be, 30 minutes of, "How's the family? What's going on? How are you feeling? What are you working on?" Right? You should be giving them action items that next one-on-one when we sit down, I want to see that you did this, this, and this.

Brooke Mm-hmm.

Karl And, it got to the point where I used to, the got a minutes, and w- what I learned real quick is I'd have people lined up for the got a minutes in the office. And what I found is like- You

Brooke literally, you had 30 people out the

Karl door ... literally, like, I'd see them all hovering, and they'd be- Yeah

Karl looking in, like, I'd be in with somebody and I,you'd feel it. They're like, "Oh God, are they, [00:30:00] is he still in with somebody?" And,

Brooke They'd be sneaking,

Karl peeking around the door Yeah. So what I started to do is they'd come in with the got a minutes and they'd be like, "So I got this going on, so how would you handle that?"

Karl And you know what I found is that just by asking them, "How would you handle it?" Now, the reason I got into leadership is- You've gotta be a few sandwiches short of a picnic, honestly, to leave sales because that's where the money's at. But y- I had this need and this want to help agents be successful.

Karl There was something wrong with me. And-

Brooke Mm-hmm. ...

Karl I... they would come in, and the first thing I'd wanna do is put on my cape and go into hero mode and solve all their problems. Well, what I found is you ask them, "Well, how would you handle it?" they already knew the answer. And the more I would just ask them, "How would you handle it?"

Karl And, that's how I would do it," it, they stopped coming in because they're like, "Oh, Carl trusts us to be able to handle this with autonomy." And there were certain times where they answered it wrong, and I corrected them. Or I would say, "I'm glad you came to me because this is the type of thing that I [00:31:00] do need to be aware of and be involved in."

Karl Or I may say, you know how to handle this stuff. In the future, you know what, make the call. Like, you got this, right?" Yeah. And then what I would also do is when they would come in with got a minutes, they didn't leave my office without doing something. I'd be like, "Look, I need you to do me a favor.

Karl We got an open house this weekend. I need somebody to sit it. Are you available?" "Well..." I'm like, "Well, what do you have planned Sunday between 12:00 and 2:00?" If they delay a second, they got nothing. Yeah. I'd be like, "I need you to s- Can you commit? Couldn't you use another 10 people in your database?"

Karl And so, like, the more I would do stuff like that is, "Hey, I got, I just got these five leads that came in on the pond. I need you to call them." Like, they always left with an action item. Mm-hmm. And I was like, if you're coming in and taking my time," which I didn't mind, "but I'm gonna maximize that and get you to do an activity."

Karl And then they wouldn't come in anymore 'cause they didn't wanna leave- They were gonna ask me to do something ... without having to do something. Like, "Nope."

Brooke Yeah. "

Karl I'm just gonna handle this on my own. He's gonna make me sit an open [00:32:00] house this weekend."

Brooke Yeah. Absolutely. And I think that takes us right into,next piece I wanna discuss is ownership, for agent ownership of when you can actually see that those pieces, those rocks, come together and the development's actually working.

Brooke i- because I wanna be realistic with people. it's not a 30-day thing, right? it's not like, "Hey, this just happened." I, again, I, we did a coaching call. They have everything that they need. We've been checking in for a few weeks now. Okay, great. they're on their own. They're really owning that.

Brooke So I wanna ... What would you say would be a realistic kind of timeline to get to that point where an agent is actually owning the role, meaning that they are doing the activities, and they already know how to answer their own questions and know what to do, and you just see that happening in real time without having to, them having to be in line for the goda minute?

Brooke realistically, how long do you see that take on average?

Karl Yeah, I mean, it differs with [00:33:00] the agent. Right. the faster you get them into production, the faster they start learning- Mm-hmm ... and the more confidence they have. I- the key is to develop confidence in the agents.

Brooke Mm-hmm.

Karl Right? And that comes from- plain and simple, it comes from getting thrown in and actually doing the transactions. I mean, that's where you learn this business. you can listen to all the talking heads and go through all the training in the world. Until you're thrown into it and you start practicing what you're learning, it, it's very difficult.

Karl And then the longer it takes for you to get into production after going through training, the harder it is as well. Like, somebody goes through Rise and Amplify, and then they don't have clients for two months after that. They're like, "Well, what did I learn? I forgot it all." Like, because they haven't been actively practicing it over and over.

Karl So for me, ideally, that whole first year i- is a ramp-up period. even if somebody comes in and they have, [00:34:00] instant success, it doesn't mean that they're going to carry that through the entire year. If they come in, they book three transactions their first month, that's great. They're learning. They're- they're thrown in.

Karl They probably have some confidence. They're feeling good. They're getting paid. But what happens when those close? Like, do they s- do they have a full pipeline that they're working, or were they busy putting those deals together that they didn't fill their pipeline, and then those deals closed, and they're out of business, right?

Karl Just because they have instant success doesn't mean it's gonna be consistent success. Oh, I like that. I'm gonna write that down. so just because they don't have instant success doesn't mean they won't- they- they'll have consistent success. You really have to continue to build and to work with them, and it probably takes, I would say, 10 to 12 transactions to really get a good feel of what the business is about Right?

Karl I looked back after my first year, and my manager sat me down in our year-we one-on-one, and we reviewed the business, and he pulled [00:35:00] out all my closings. And he said, "All right. Tell me about this one." And I was like, "Oh, that was a home that I previewed, and I left my card, and I just wrote nice house on it, and they came and they listed."

Karl He's like, "Okay." And he's like, "How about this one?" I was like, "That was a FSBO." "How about this one?" "My farm." "How about this one?" "It was a personal referral." "How about this one?" "It was an internet lead." And he's like, "So I'm looking through here." He's like, "If you were to like... Your 12 transactions all came from, like, different places."

Karl He goes- Mm-hmm ... if you were to decide I don't really wanna call FSBOs, or I don't wanna work internet leads, or I'm not gonna do open houses," he goes, "That could've been, like, two or three transactions that you missed out on."

Brooke Yeah. "

Karl But at the same time, you learned how to do all of those different types of deals in your first year.

Karl Like, you figured out how to get the appointment with the FSBO, and how to convert them from a FSBO to a listing, and how to negotiate a full commission with them, and you learned how to build your farm area." So [00:36:00] it's not just having transactions, but it's looking at how you're learning, right? What are you learning?

Karl if all three of your transactions came from personal referrals, like, you didn't learn how to hunt. You kinda had those deals handed to you from friends and family members or people that you knew. Mm-hmm. So that's great. You're learning the transactional piece, but you haven't really learned the prospecting piece.

Karl So for me, it's putting together a consistent plan over the first year- Mm-hmm ... to continue to work with them. And some people provide mentors I've seen some of the best mentor programs, and I've seen some of the worst mentor programs out there.

Brooke Yeah.

Karl I know companies that just it's not worth it, and I know other companies where it's like, "I don't know what I would do if I didn't have this," and we recruit people specifically because of our mentor program, right?

Karl So that's something to think about as well. if [00:37:00] you're... If you don't have the time to do the individual coaching, then maybe you have two or three agents, and it's usually not your top agents. It's those, just those really good agents that are consistent that like to help other people, and maybe you look to implement a mentor program.

Karl And if anybody listening to this wants help on how you build that and develop it and what it would look like and how you scale it financially for the mentors, just let me know, and I'll be happy to work with you and build that out with you.

Brooke Absolutely. Absolutely. with- within Resided, we've got tons of different processes and, things around this specifically.

Brooke So yeah, reach out if you're listening to this on how we can best help. and Curtis, I wanna zoom out here for a second. Again, with the when to hire versus when to develop because I know someone's listening right now, 'cause I h- I talk with these people every single day, about, "Hey, I hear you.

Brooke and yes, I do need to create, and develop an onboarding [00:38:00] experience, but I do generally need to hire more people right now. I need more hands. Business is coming in." What would you say to those teams of exactly where they need to start first if they still need to develop, but also they really do need to hire as well?

Karl Yeah. It's just looking at your calendar and time blocking your commitment level to this, right? Yeah. If they don't feel that you're committed to them or let's say you, you hired a new agent and now it's three months down the road and they're struggling a little bit, and they see that you hired other new agents and you're putting all your time into them and you've kinda given up on that person, like, that's not a good thing either.

Karl So it's taking each of your agents and putting them into a system where you're actually, like, really tracking and understanding what they're working on, what they're doing, taking notes. Like think about your CRM. Are you using Follow Up Boss for your own agents, right? Are you putting them in and putting notes in every time you do a one-on-one and tracking what they're working on, what they're committing [00:39:00] to?

Karl So hold yourself accountable to helping those agents develop and put long-term plans in. don't give up on that agent , that joined that's working hard that hasn't had anything come together because you've moved on to the next crew of new agents, right? it's making them all feel loved and just putting those systems and processes behind it.

Brooke I love that. And I, and that's something with teams that, I talk with. and I think if you're listening to this and you say, "Okay, do I d- have a development problem? I'm not really sure what that looks like." Three kind of questions or activities I kind of throw out there is, first, look at your agent roster right now and how many people or who's not producing.

Brooke if you're seeing that, then there, there may be a development problem. Again, like we were talking about before, if there's, this amount of agents that have onboarded through your current process, and they are not where they need to be, that could be an indicator that there is a development problem.

Brooke I think the second thing I would [00:40:00] ask is the onboarding process clear? If you had 10... I get asked this all the time, if you have 10 agents that join you tomorrow, and then 10 agents the next day, what would break first? Like, are you prepared to handle that? Are you prepared to take them where they need to go?

Brooke and if not, again, looking into that development system again. And then three, like you mentioned, CRM. Is that actually being worked? If your current agents are not working what you already have, they're not logging in, again, that might be an indication that there's some sort of key development problem.

Brooke so I think that really the bottom line is if you can't describe your development system right now, that's where you need to start, is fixing that system. But yes, of course, also hiring in the meantime, but making sure that it's a priority. If you have operations on your team, this is a great thing to leverage and work with them on to help support because a lot of the time they're the ones that are in the back end getting them up to speed anyway.

Brooke but-

Karl I think too you, you gotta look at is it a development problem or is it a mindset problem?

Brooke [00:41:00] Exactly.

Karl Very true. With the agent, right? Because you could be offering all the training in the world, and if they're like, "I'm not coming. I don't believe in what we're doing. I'm just g- I'm gonna go do this."

Karl Or they just, they're not treating this the way that you want them to treat it. Like, i- if you have that agent that's coming to all the training and working their tail off, like I'm gonna go all in with them. But those agents where they're not producing, they probably took another job or they're working two other part-time jobs while they're trying to do this, like the part-time dual career piece too is something that you have to look at.

Karl I- if that's something that you're allowing to happen on your team, then what's your development program for those folks? Because it's gonna differ, right? It's not gonna be the same. They're not gonna be able to make your 10:00 Tuesday meeting. They're not. and so, like, but how are they being trained and what commitment are you prepared before you hire them?

Karl You have to get them to make sure that they commit to a certain level of training, and then you have to [00:42:00] look at what's your level of commitment. Are you gonna, come in the office at 6:00 on a Wednesday night and have a one-on-one with them, right? Like, are you going to take time to do evening training and a- additional shadowing to help them because they're not gonna be able to be at the weekday stuff, or vice versa.

Karl So it, it's just if the agent isn't in the right mindset, that, that's different than an agent that doesn't wanna develop.

Brooke Right.

Karl That, that, that's, those are the ones that frustrate me. Mm-hmm. 'Cause I'm like, I... They're like,no, I wanna do this." I'm like, "You're not at anything. Like, I don't see you.

Karl You're not making an effort. You're not getting back to me. You're not doing the things I ask you to do. Like, you're not just gonna hang your license here." I always, I take the approach that an office, a team, whatever it is, you are only as strong as your weakest link.

Karl And I remember one time I had a, a referral come into the office for over a million dollars, and our average selling price was, like, [00:43:00] 320, right?

Karl Yeah. It was

Brooke a big deal. This is 2000

Karl and, 2006, 2007. The average selling price is, like, 320 in Central New Jersey, and we had, like, a million dollar relocation referral come in. And I remember looking at my roster like, I don't know who I trust to give this to." Like, that's a problem. That made me realize, like, I got...

Karl Literally, it was an eye-opening experience. I was like, "I've gotta recruit. I've gotta get some agents, some more agents in here that I would feel confident in giving this luxury listing opportunity to, that I know are gonna win it." And sometimes you need to have those aha moments, but, like, think about that.

Karl Like, if you're looking at your roster and you're like, "I don't know who I would wanna give these referrals to," or I... If you ever have an agent and you're like, "I don't feel comfortable giving this person a referral," then that's a problem, right? you wanna be y- I... that, going back to that you're only as strong as your weakest link, if you have agents that aren't [00:44:00] representing you and your team well out there in the public or with clients, then you hire two, you let one go, right?

Karl That's always been my rule. You hire two, you can let one go. You always wanna be netting additional agents. You don't wanna hire one and let one go. You hire two, you can let one go, or even better, hire three, let one go. That way you're always- Right.

Brooke Absolutely. and, just kind of close this out here, 'cause we, I think we've provided a lot of, great frameworks here, especially you Carlton, you mainly, about, what it looks like to have a hiring process and a development process that actually works. if you, if we have someone listening to this and they're like, "Okay, great, I want to, look at my hiring and development processes and really strengthen them for success," where do they start?

Brooke What's one thing that they can do first to get that ball rolling?

Karl Is c- commit to the reach-out, right? Mm-hmm. It's y- you've gotta commit to recruiting. you've gotta commit to making the [00:45:00] calls, right? it's the same thing as if an agent said, "I want more listings," right? Well, what are you gonna do?

Karl You're gonna market yourself to generate listing opportunities, and you're gonna start prospecting and find ways to get in front of more potential sellers. So if you wanna recruit more, then you need to market more as a team, right? You've gotta get your current agents on board. So maybe actually looking at, like, a recruiting incentive or what's your current incentive program, and do you up that, or do you do, like, a monthly special here and there every month it's something different?

Karl y- you've gotta put that in place. Like, how are you marketing to generate potential recruiting leads? And then what are you doing personally to reach out? And that is a combination, just like any prospecting approach, is it's text messaging, it's emailing, it's picking up the phone and making the calls, it's utilizing social media.

Karl Now, that doesn't mean you see somebody list a house on Facebook and you start DM'ing them. [00:46:00]

Brooke Mm-hmm.

Karl Right? it means that you start to passively get in front of them. You look at that as a warm opportunity to reach out because you see, oh, they just got this new listing. I'm gonna comment congratulations, and then I'm gonna pick up the phone.

Karl I'm not gonna start blitzing them in the comment section or in the DMs. I'm gonna call them, like-

Brooke Join the team. Join the team. Yeah ...

Karl right, right. Everybody in it. They're l- they, you don't wanna do that. You can say congratulations, and I'm sure that their current team leader or broker is not doing that.

Karl but then you pick up the phone and you just say, "Hey, congratulations on that new listing I saw on Facebook. How'd you get it?" Right? You're just finding all those warm reasons to, to reach out, but you have to commit and you wanna set a goal. This is how much in dollar volume, right? It's no different.

Karl This is how much I wanna make as an agent, right? This is how many deals I need to close. How many of those closings are gonna be buyers versus sellers? How many activities do I need to do to get to the appointments that I need to get those buyers and sellers, right? So you're [00:47:00] backing it out the same way.

Karl This is how much in dollar volume I need to add as a team. This is how many, recruits I need to hire to get there. This is how many experienced, this is how many new. Here's what I'm gonna do to market myself, and here's my, my prospecting activities to get newest, new agents, and here's what I'm gonna do to get experienced agents, right?

Karl And there's systems like I'm a big advocate of Humanize. Humanize is phenomenal. If you guys are not taking advantage of that, set it up, use it, right? Put that system in place. I'm a big fan of Corded, which gives you- Mm-hmm ... a ridiculous amount of data in your local market, right? And it lets you see there's predictive analytics.

Karl Now, I don't know how accurate they are, but there's predictive analytics that tell you if somebody is likely to move, happy where they're at, right? Or- Mm-hmm ... no chance of them moving, and it'll give you new folks. So like every day you go in, it's like, "Here's 10 new people to call in your market."

Brooke Yep.

Karl And you [00:48:00] see all their data info.

Karl You see all of your agents' data and info. You have your local market data, so you know, like, who's right above you and who's below you for market share that you should start pulling from. Because whenever you add an agent from another team or company, you're actually doubling your market share- Mm-hmm

Karl because they lose it and you gain it. So I always like to look at who are the companies or teams, like, just above me and just below me, so that way I'm keeping those teams further away that are below me by taking their agents, and then I'm moving myself up by taking the agents away from the companies that are just above me, right?

Karl So there's a ton of data in Corded that you can use to really put together some strategic recruiting initiatives.

Brooke Absolutely. I love Cordit as well. I always like to tell teams, like, you can take your avatar and kind of filter that through Cordit as well and see who is going to fall in line with the kind of avatar that you're looking for in your team.

Brooke and [00:49:00] something I wanna, leave with the people as well is with your existing members, again, taking it... It's a great way to kind of take the time, e- especially if we're halfway through the year already, which is crazy, taking the time and doing those business planning, meetings, if you haven't already.

Brooke Do it as a team. You can make it fun. You can have a... We used to do annual business planning days where we'd rent out a space, have lunch, have a fun activity where, after we were done, families could come and we'd have dinner or something along those lines. So it doesn't have to be,just sitting in the office writing down on a piece of paper what it looks like.

Brooke you can add things to it. but don't discount those agents that you do already have. and if you need more agents Make sure you have a good development system behind that as well. Carlton, any- anything else that you wanna leave the people with today?

Karl No, just your current team members could be your best recruiters, right?

Karl Yeah. If they're buying into what you're doing and they understand your growth initiatives, like the reason that somebody on your team wouldn't help you recruit is because they feel like it would be taking business away from them.

Brooke Right.

Karl So if they understand the big [00:50:00] picture of how we wanna grow and how adding more agents, it's gonna increase business for everybody, and they're on board with that, they will be your, some of your best recruiters.

Karl And a good thing to do is you could either give them a percentage of company dollar, right, on every transaction for somebody that they could recruit. It could be a low amount, a couple percent, percentage points on every transaction as long as you're both with the team. it could be a sign-on. It could be, when I hire them on their first closing, you'll get a, you'll get a certain amount of money for it.

Karl one of the things I used to like to do is at our big business planning workshop, I always put index cards on the table, and I asked everybody on our team to write down, everybody take two index cards, and I want you to write down the names of two agents that work in our market area that you would love to have on our team.

Karl And then what I would do is I would take all the index cards and I'd create piles, and I'd be like, "Wow, like five people said this person." And I would call them [00:51:00] and be like, "I gotta tell you, we, we have to meet because I just asked a bunch of our agents like who they would love to have on our team, and you know what they all said?

Karl They said your name." Like-

Brooke Yeah. What a boost, right? Like that would feel great if you're like, "Everyone said by far you'd be the best fit for the team, and we want you to work with us." That'd be such a great feeling.

Karl Yeah. So just put your systems in place. Recognize what you're good and not good at.

Karl if recruiting and agent development is just not your thing- Mm-hmm ... which it's okay if it's not. Like, y- you can't be everything to everybody. So, so if it's not your thing, then who do you have on your team or what kind of budget do you have in place to bring somebody in, understanding what it can do?

Karl Mm-hmm. Like, it could really make a big difference to have that one person that is really doing your recruiting, your onboarding, your training and development. And if you really have high expectations for team growth, like that'll [00:52:00] make a world of difference in freeing up your time a little bit.

Karl And if it's you that loves to do it, then by all means, figure out what that system is and how you're gonna make that work, and time block it out

Brooke Absolutely. Well, thank you so much for being here, Carlton. Of course, those who are listening, Carlton and I are here if you want to dive deeper into what this looks like for your business and for you.

Brooke Please reach out. We are, like, like Carlton said, there might be something wrong with us. we like to see everyone successful and really have, a big passion and heart for that, which is why we're in the roles that we're in. So if this episode made you think any differently about how you're building your team, please feel free to share that with another team leader or your team or someone that needs to hear that.

Brooke And, with that, we will see you next time. Thank you, everybody.

Karl Thanks, Brooke. Thanks, everyone.