Ep 58 | A.I. Tools That Generate Leads | with Reed Floren

[00:00:00] HANSEL: Hello and welcome to the next episode of the Customer Acquisition Show from tier 11. This episode is gonna be one of my favorites. I can already tell this is one of my favorite subjects. It's ad levels, but more fundamentally customer awareness levels. And I have a sneaking suspicion this is gonna be a deep talk about psychology and lots of creative, which is a bit of a change for us.

[00:00:19] HANSEL: We've been generally talking a lot more about media buying on this, but As marketers, we have to be complete in all aspects of marketing, and I'm very excited to talk about the creative side of this. Today we are joined by our CEO and co-founder Ralph Burns. We have creative strategist slash art director Rachel Hockmeyer and our copy Chief Aaron Crocker.

[00:00:40] HANSEL: Welcome. And I am your host, Tom Meredith. So welcome everybody. If you have questions, please drop them in the chat. And let's take this away. Who loves customer awareness levels? what's not to love? Right. . I think we can talk about a little bit about how fundamental ad traffic levels and customer awareness levels are to tier 11 as an agency, but marketing in general.

[00:01:02] HANSEL: Uh, Ralph, I think your first we'd like to start with here, like talking about how these have really formed how you think about marketing and how you've grown Tier 11. Yeah. I mean, I think it's the book Breakthrough Advertising by Eugene Schwartz that we're really talking about here, which my buddy Brian Kurtz actually sells, which definitely checked that out.

[00:01:19] HANSEL: Probably the most affordable version of it. But it starts with that, like, that's just one of the most fundamental advertising books. I think I reread it or listen to it, try and listen to it through an app every single year because it's just a foundational concept for all of advertising and all the marketing.

[00:01:34] HANSEL: And there it is, right there. Look at that annotated copy from Aaron Crocker. And, we used a lot of the concepts and the levels of awareness to formulate one of our sort of original frameworks that we still use to this day inside tier 11 of how we look at traffic levels, how we look at different levels of awareness and how through the customer acquisition path, people travel from, , completely unaware or problem potentially aware, all the way through to being most aware, which is when they actually purchase.

[00:02:05] HANSEL: And we created a framework that we used to call the e-com ad amplifier. It's now sort of morphed into a total and holistic way in which we view marketing, which is customer acquisition amplification. But the foundational concept of everything that we do, the a hundred million dollars a year in ad spend that we spend.

[00:02:23] HANSEL: Is based around this concept here that we're gonna be talking about and the book from Eugene Schwartz. So I, I don't, I think it's the absolute essential that you need to know whether you're doing digital marketing online or offline. It's the understanding this concept, I think is pivotal to scaling and growing a business through marketing.

[00:02:42] HANSEL: Nice. Yeah, and I guess we should get it a little bit more specific on what this concept is. Who wants to take a crack at explaining the levels of awareness?

[00:02:51] HANSEL: I'm looking at you, Aaron. You're,

[00:02:57] HANSEL: we all, were . Like Aaron. You can talk anytime. . Oh, ok. Well, listen. There's a reason that our framework is built around this classic body of. And it's just such a beautiful example of timelessness, right? In a world that's changing forever and always in the world of SA programs and metrics and, a digital platforms, Facebook, YouTube, TikTok, you name it.

[00:03:19] HANSEL: There's something that always keeps us true north and that's just how customers are influenced and motivated. And that's why Eugene's Schwartz's five levels of awareness are relevant today. And they'll be relevant a hundred years from now because if all the things that changes, , if you believe in evolution, the human psyche is slow to change, right?

[00:03:40] HANSEL: We're gonna be here for a long time. All that to say the five levels of awareness in a quick nutshell are level 1, 2, 3, 4, and five. You have an unaware customer who is this? This is a person who doesn't know that they even have a problem. If you don't know you have a problem, you're not concerned with it.

[00:03:57] HANSEL: They're gonna be very difficult to motivate, right? And so if we have a level one customer, then you have to kind of enter into their psyche as a side door and try to motivate them to realize that going to level two, that they actually do have a problem, right? And then we have to wake that problem up.

[00:04:13] HANSEL: From there, they'll become aware of a solution. They need a solution, they'll need some clarity behind it. The next level is gonna be, or they want the product or your service

[00:04:23] HANSEL: Well, wouldn't you know it just, when I was on a roll, I was problem aware, but we don't know what the solution wear is. Right? Solution aware. It's an open loop right there on. So, , if you're a solution aware, you know that you got a problem and you need a solution, you just don't know that, the solution that you have to offer is the one that's right for me.

[00:04:41] HANSEL: And so then there's the Product Aware. Same thing. That's the same thing. That's the product aware. Solution Aware is need a product, , you need that product. product aware is when you know that you have that product, but you need a solution and you're not sure that that solution is for me.

[00:04:55] HANSEL: And then you have the most aware, and that is the person who who becomes a customer or should become a customer. And that's butchering it as fast as I know how. Nice. Rachel, this is something I know you've thought a lot about and there's a great talk from Ryan Deice a while ago talking about how I like to talk to each of these, not just even talk about, communicate and engage with the different customers at these different levels.

[00:05:15] HANSEL: Do you wanna go into a little bit how you think about as a creative strategist and our director, , really motivating people through these different levels of awareness? Yeah, so really like when it comes to creative strategy, this is the first question we ask is what level are we talking to?

[00:05:31] HANSEL: Because if we don't know that, then you approach them in different ways. And this is kind of where the psychology comes in, because something I heard very early on in my. Getting started as art director, creative strategist, is you don't ask someone to marry you on the first date, . And that's the same concept with this, is if you, if they know nothing about you and they don't even know that they have a problem, they're likely not going to just hit by now

[00:05:55] HANSEL: So you have to warm them up with these different levels. And so, yeah, in each level there's actual. Templates that we use at each of these levels, but there's also reasons why we use them. And that's all the psychology. So for instance, level one, they need like education and entertainment just to get to even know, like we approach them thinking that they don't even know that they have a problem.

[00:06:21] HANSEL: So how do you tell someone that they have this problem in a way that's not going to kind of turn them off too quickly and push them away? And so entertainment does a great job with that education depending on whatever the product is. And then once you get into the problem where, That's when they realize, okay, I have a problem, but now I don't know what to do about it,

[00:06:40] HANSEL: And so in this level hope is the word that we use in this one where you give them hope that yes, you have this problem, but we are the solution. And that's when you add in. Like we use a lot of testimonials in these levels because that helps them put themselves in like, someone else has achieved this goal that I wanna achieve now and I can now envision myself being in that role.

[00:07:02] HANSEL: once you're into the solution where that's when you just need to really. They understand that , you exist and that they have a problem. But now you just need to say, why me? Like, why am I better than this other company? And this is when you come into more testimonials. We use a lot of testimonials throughout here as well.

[00:07:17] HANSEL: But yeah, this is just making the process easy for them to really clarify like, this is why we are the best choice to, for your solution. Product aware. We use a lot of like DPA ads in this. This is just definitely pushing them over the edge. Sometimes it's an offer, like it's just, it's that one last little push that gets them over the edge.

[00:07:36] HANSEL: And then once they're a customer, then we go into , why bring them back? why do they want to stay loyal to you and become a brand ambassador? So yeah, really when it comes to creatives, like this is definitely the pinnacle that we focus on. it's the first thing that I always ask whenever I start a brief is what level are we talking to?

[00:07:53] HANSEL: Yeah, I think this is one of the what flipped switching my mind is when I viewed this, not so much as a marketer, but as a customer, like, cause it made a lot more sense to me is like, look through this as somebody who's going through these levels of awareness when I'm purchasing a product. Like how do any of you really think about communicating to people who you maybe don't identify with,

[00:08:14] HANSEL: like when you're not the key avatar? Yeah. Like it's easy to see, like if I'm buying a baseball cap, it's easy for me to understand that if I'm, , shopping for my wife, it's harder for me to identify what her or psychological motivators are. Yeah, much to her disappointment. I think when it comes to like marketing, you have to have a very high level of empathy.

[00:08:34] HANSEL: And you have to, like, that's where we dive into testimonials and like YouTube videos of people talking about these problems that they have. Like that's when you really dig into their mind and then definitely have a strong sense of empathy for what they're going through. And instead of just shoving products at them, really solving their problem versus just handing them a product.

[00:08:54] HANSEL: I think it also speaks to the fact that, , in the case of your wife, you have to do research, you have to really find out in the market like there's, we understand that there's five levels of awareness in essence, and in most cases, like the top level, which is the.

[00:09:07] HANSEL: Market it's hard to actually find examples of that today, cuz most markets are sophisticated enough that they actually are somewhat aware that they have a problem. So sort of bundling that in with the problem where a market, you need to really figure out, okay, what is the problem that they're trying to solve?

[00:09:24] HANSEL: And how does my product end up solving that problem? In essence, that's what , a good product or service does it solves a specific problem. Now that problem might be, I have this desire that I really want and I don't know how to get it. That is a problem. So your, solution ultimately is your product, what you're trying to sell them.

[00:09:42] HANSEL: But in order for you to get to that, like Rachel said, that level of curiosity at level one or level two to audiences that don't know who you are, you have to do a lot of deep dive research. you have to slightly sort of ask your wife, , what. She's interested in these days or look at like what magazine she's reading or , what catalogs she's ordered and stuff that maybe she's dog eared.

[00:10:05] HANSEL: , and this is how I do it when I'm trying to, , find something for my wife or I just outright ask her. But at least I'm doing that research. And I think if you use that example, it's like you start to really uncover, okay, what really is the problem that this market is, trying to solve?

[00:10:19] HANSEL: And then how do I craft my top end solution, or my way in which I actually bring them in from a curiosity perspective? And that sort of drives the whole process. I don't think we should, , discount that aside because that sort of starts everything. I know, obviously the folks on this call here have done a tremendous amount of this.

[00:10:37] HANSEL: And then you figure out, okay, based upon all that research, then you sort of divide it up. Individual potential avatars, and each avatar might have their own five levels of awareness. So this is almost infinite. It's almost meta in a lot of ways, not to use meta as a word, but I guess now it means other things like an ad platform or a social media company.

[00:10:56] HANSEL: But it really is the basis of all marketing. And when you understand this, I think it makes it a whole lot easier as a marketer get the job done. Yeah. So Aaron, handing it over to you as probably our chief researcher, like how do you go about finding these emotional triggers for each of these levels of awareness?

[00:11:14] HANSEL: Well, it's both a complicated and a simple answer. It's just a lot of research. It's being informs it's being in Facebook chats, it's being, , a voyeur, right? You're living vicariously through people at this point, and you're trying to figure out , what the consensus talk is.

[00:11:31] HANSEL: And so it can be everything from, going off into Amazon, doing Amazon mining, finding out what they may be saying in competitive markets. but Reddit's a great place. Just a lot of the backside forums is where the real talk happens, right? And so ultimately what you're after is trying to find the pain points that people need solving.

[00:11:50] HANSEL: And if we can solve somebody's problem, well that's the real market, isn't it? Problems are markets. And when we can find a market and start solving it, then we have an n into the psyche. And I think another thing that you're really a big proponent of when you're doing this research is like finding the voice of the customer.

[00:12:07] HANSEL: talk a little bit about voice of customer and how you go about using that. Yeah. it's the very powerful shortcut to Yes. Right? It's the fastest way to get conversions is to speak a language that's already taking place in the customer's head. Rachel brought up a moment ago the use of social proof.

[00:12:25] HANSEL: And why does that work? Why does social proof. Why is it so powerful? It's because, , people seek answers outside of themselves, right? Because internally there's confusion and there's uncertainty, and they've got a lot of internal conflict. And they look to social proof from the wisdom of the crowd persuasion and what CALD will call pure persuasion, So the voice of customer comes from both the corporate world in terms of what that group of individuals are saying inside a particular niche as well as in data mining with Amazon and stuff, finding common language that resonates with a common group or a tribe of individuals, I would say.

[00:13:09] HANSEL: So we've been kind of talking pretty high level here. Let's, let's try to get a little bit more specific on, a bit more tactical, like how people can implement this in their own everyday marketing. Ralph, I know you said you had a, slide to share for how to use this, like specific markets Yeah, I mean, I think if you look at any specific market and the example of like the health and wellness market, for example it's an older example, but it's one I think that's worthwhile is that we actually, in our front end ad we go through all five stages of awareness and we hit on all the different types of people that might be in that specific market by creating curiosity and then.

[00:13:45] HANSEL: Having the call to action for the next step. But in every single market, if you really look at health and wellness, let's say if there's, , a million people just for the sake of argument in that market there's a certain portion of those that are unaware and there's a certain portion that are problem aware.

[00:14:02] HANSEL: And then there's a certain portion that are solution aware. And then there's a certain portion that are, your product aware. And then there's some that are most aware and are teetering on the edge just about to actually make a sale. So if you can create advertising that addresses each one of those stages, or , as Rachel said, do it separately in separate types of ads.

[00:14:24] HANSEL: And we use sort of different types of templates in our ads, or you do it all in one. I mean, we usually will talk to the unaware or problem desire aware markets in some kind of, , level one. Video type of ad or some kind of creative, which creates curiosity has the hope element, gives clarity, gives 'em sort of assurance that what they're gonna do is actually is the right step and then needs some kind of deal or an irresistible offer that can be done all in one ad or it can be separated out based upon sort of where they are in your customer acquisition path.

[00:14:58] HANSEL: I think it's important to think about these levels as, yes, five different levels, but you can compress them all into one individual creative at times. But in most cases, most people are not gonna purchase on your first touch if they don't know who you are and they see an ad in their newsfeed that engages them or they watch a certain percentage.

[00:15:17] HANSEL: Maybe one in a hundred will actually go through and actually purchase. that leaves 99 outta those a hundred people for all the other messages that are consistent with the five levels of awareness. And then we create ads and messaging that is in alignment with where they are in the customer journey, in the customer acquisition path to ultimately create a sale.

[00:15:39] HANSEL: And, , the five levels of awareness are the things that we use as a guidepost in order to do that. Right. Let me, I'm gonna try screen sharing here. We've never done this on the show before, but I have a graphic that we've been working on for quite a while that really is pretty foundational to how the customer levels of awareness track throughout the whole customer acquisition path or customer journey.

[00:15:59] HANSEL: But here's how we really use the customer levels awareness through the whole customer journey through creative traffic and our conversion architecture. After the click who wants to take a crack at like, getting a bit specific and talking about how we implement this for, we can make up an example Like socks.

[00:16:17] HANSEL: Yeah. Socks are, maybe that's not the greatest example because most people are pretty aware about socks the problems they solve. I was going to more lean towards like a supplement. Okay. Supplement's like a good example to like start at the top. So like at the top, if you don't know you have a certain problem that's where we have, so like what Ralph was talking about, we frequently use what we call love sandwich videos, which is a great way to Get someone from level one to like level four pretty quickly and that's because we make, so the love sandwich is you start with testimonials and then you have some educational, or if you could have entertainment, like entertainment, just some sort of content piece and then end with other testimonials. And so that's like a very good example to get people in. But if we're talking from like one step to the other something in the very beginning with a supplement company would be just a, general video talking about this specific problem that this person might have.

[00:17:09] HANSEL: And it's just educating on them on like what it even is. And then, Usually we would end with like a light call to action. Usually it would be more like a learn more at the end of the video. Then once you get a little farther down, then we would lean more into the testimonials. And testimonials are great, especially for supplements because your customer can say things about you that you sometimes can't , they get away with saying a lot more about you.

[00:17:31] HANSEL: Because they can make some of these more like claims that we can't really say about our own companies. So yeah, usually we lean towards like testimonials down in like the level two and three. And then once you get down into the level five, then it would be something like, well you tried this supplement, this one works great in tandem with it.

[00:17:47] HANSEL: So that would kind of be like a general, I dunno if someone has another example, but let's even more specific, we'll call it like a joint supplement. any of you approach selling that?

[00:17:56] HANSEL: There. Do you wanna take a shot? I'm gonna defer to the copy chief on that one.

[00:18:03] HANSEL: Well I've done this in the past ad nauseum. So when it comes to differentiating any kind of supplemental product , you gotta find, listen, there's typically two types of mechanisms inside of a message, especially if it's gonna be long form, if it's gonna be vsl, if it's gonna be a long form sales page or anything like that.

[00:18:19] HANSEL: So, , you got mechanism one, which is the unique problem the customer has, So maybe they have a joint problem, right? But that joint problem is specific to a knee, or it could be a neck or a low back, right? And so dialing into their unique problem is mechanism number one, because mechanism number two is, What is your product?

[00:18:42] HANSEL: How is your product different than what I've tried before? Right? And so we have to address both of these unique mechanisms in that I have a unique problem and I need a unique solution. How are you unique to my unique problem? Right? And so speaking specifically to a neck problem is a whole lot more.

[00:19:01] HANSEL: It's gonna resonate a whole lot more to the person who's having neck problems than a knee problem. And so we want to dial in as best we can. And it's just, you can use a universal pain problem messaging, but when you bring it down and you fragment it down, this is when you'll start picking up some momentum.

[00:19:18] HANSEL: Did that answer the question? It's the start of answering the question . So now we know like the unique mechanism we know some specific problems that people are dealing with. That's probably a good start for the creative team to start thinking about how to talk to people or show people things at different levels of awareness.

[00:19:34] HANSEL: Rachel, defer to you again let's start with this first to unaware and how do you move somebody from unaware or into problem aware with that? Yeah, so kind of like how I mentioned before, unaware, that's usually when we would just call out the problem, but not in a way of like, it's more just in the educational space where it's just like, oh, I happen to come across this and I have been dealing with this.

[00:19:56] HANSEL: So if it comes to joint pain, It can even be something as far as like very simple as someone walking their dog and the copy speaks to like, has this been a problem? Have you ever experienced this? Like, we don't call out exactly you, but , just something along the lines of even something that they're like, you know what?

[00:20:13] HANSEL: I have had troubles walking my dog lately, or playing with my grandkids or something. So it's not necessarily calling out that exact thing. And definitely not showing the product yet, but just kind of like making them aware and kind of have that aha moment of like, yes, I do have this problem. So that would be like where I would start with a level one.

[00:20:31] HANSEL: it's super high level exactly what, Rachel's saying. Like for that unaware market, they may not realize that they actually have joint problem at this point. Like for using, this is our example. there is a certain percentage of that market which just doesn't like, Hey, I'm just dealing with this, this is just part of know, I don't really think about it, but maybe an ad calls to the attention to a problem that I maybe didn't realize I had.

[00:20:56] HANSEL: and you have to be very careful, obviously, with your copy using the word you, but just for simplicity's sake, , you might wanna use sort of a third person in your copy here, but what you're trying to relay is, all right, hey, I have that thing. I haven't really thought about that thing.

[00:21:09] HANSEL: Like, , symptoms of, joint pain may include, a certain type of soreness in the morning. , like when you're walking your dog. , if you're walking your dog and you feel certain, , pain in your knees and your hips, and , this might be the sign of a, more widespread problem, words to that effect.

[00:21:26] HANSEL: Like you're trying to call attention to the fact that, hey, you have this problem, but you might not really realize that you have it, or you might just sort of be going about your regular day and just sort of dealing with it. So that would be the unaware market in that particular case. Maybe that demographic wouldn't be like an older demographic.

[00:21:44] HANSEL: It might be somebody sort of a in like Aaron in my age range. So that, , joint pain isn't something that we talk about with our friends as of yet, but it's something that we're starting to experience. , as you grow older and as , the body sort of ages. That education and that curiosity is, I think, pivotal to pulling in that unaware market while also simultaneously you're also attracting the problem aware market.

[00:22:07] HANSEL: People are like, yeah, that is me. I do have that problem as well as the people are like, yeah, I guess. I have that problem. I hadn't really thought about it that way, and it is hampering my ability to, take my dog out for a walk. I can't run with them the way that I used to, or, , I can't walk as fast, or maybe they're pulling me instead of, , me going ahead of them.

[00:22:25] HANSEL: Like, all these things are subtle. All right. I'm aware now that maybe I do have a problem. You haven't even introduced any solution to this as of yet, but you're generally in a general sense, taking that portion of the market and saying, all right, you actually have a problem, that potentially there might be a solution this, which will end up enhancing or improving your life in some way, shape, or form.

[00:22:47] HANSEL: So at that top level, , one and two unaware and problem aware, I think a lot of education and curiosity is the key to pulling people in and, and getting them to engage with your ad for the first time. let me echo off of what Ralph was just saying there.

[00:23:01] HANSEL: when it comes to, , using the dog walking example as the example, Everyone's felt like they've had muscle weakness at some point in time. So a unique mechanism of messaging could be something to the effect of, is muscle weakness really a joint problem? Or is muscle weakness that you experience walking your dog really a joint a hidden joint problem?

[00:23:21] HANSEL: Something to that effect, which just then allows, , it's, it's a new way of, of introducing it without , poking them in the eye so much. And I think this dog walking example is a great challenge to our idea that unaware are hard particularly with health problems, it's like such a slow onset over time that you are probably unaware that I guess walking the dog is harder than it used to be.

[00:23:40] HANSEL: that's a really great example of Rachel, of how we can help people realize they have a problem. And then, yeah, what's next? I've got problems. Yeah. Now what do I do? Yeah, this is obviously where we first bring in that like there is a solution and that's why, like I said, the word we use for this one is hope.

[00:23:56] HANSEL: You don't wanna like panic them and say, Hey, you have this problem, so this is when we come in as the solution. And again, you can use more education just to let them know like, Hey, this is the problem, but there are solutions. This is when you can talk about like in a supplement, the ingredients that are in the supplement and what they do for your joints and things like that.

[00:24:14] HANSEL: And then that pushes them farther to be like, okay, there is solutions out there, and now I just need to figure out which one is right for me. but yeah, that's like where we would go. I guess as far as this specific example, that's where I would go next is like educating them on certain ingredients in the supplement, other.

[00:24:31] HANSEL: Like that's where I would bring in some social proof of people who had the revelation of, Hey, I took this and now I feel better. So you give those people that little hope of like, okay, someone else actually found relief through this. So yeah, just kind of moves them across in that curiosity.

[00:24:46] HANSEL: So very much like the solution exists and it has worked for somebody else. Yeah. And that's where you start to introduce what Aaron was saying before, sort of that unique mechanism, unlike Rachel's saying here, it's like, , might be a specific ingredient in your supplement that you then talk about.

[00:25:01] HANSEL: You're then transition is,, we've now established, right, you have this joint pain or you have this pain that is from your joints, but did you know that joint pain may be caused by X, Y, Z? And one of the best solutions for that is new mechanism. You haven't talked about your solution yet.

[00:25:22] HANSEL: You're just talking about a solution. one of the best ads, and this is part of that presentation, Tom, is, that we ran, , tens of millions of dollars to this one video. And it really, it talks about, the idea of having more energy, being more healthy getting your greens in because we know that you're not probably eating your, , two portions of green vegetables every single day.

[00:25:44] HANSEL: It hits on multiple problems. And maybe to some people that might be unaware. I'm supposed to eat two portions of vegetables every single day and I'm not doing that. So there is an unaware market right there. And then we talk about in this video, these 11 super foods and how important they are.

[00:26:00] HANSEL: And this unique combination of Superfood, why it helps you solve problem one, problem two, problem three, and you can go out and get all these 11 things going into more like specifically to our solution which is sort of stage four, which is product where you can go out and get these all at Whole Foods, , individually, and it'll probably cost you three, $400, or you can get it insert product into that conversation, or you can get it all for, , just this and this powdered juice.

[00:26:32] HANSEL: And in that way you're actually, you're solving the problem, you're introducing the solution through education in the video, but then you're gently pushing them down the continuum into, , level four, which is ultimately this is the product that we have that. Could potentially solve problem one, problem two, and problem three.

[00:26:53] HANSEL: And then at the end it's just a matter of sort of getting them to take action, which we haven't gotten to that stage yet, which we can talk about. Yeah, I think that's a really good point that you hit on, which is in this solution aware level, show 'em that they can do this on their own, right? Like it's really important, but your product makes it so much easier.

[00:27:11] HANSEL: So going into product people who are product to where, or moving to product to where, how do you communicate the benefits of your product and show that.

[00:27:20] HANSEL: Well, I can tell you how I did it in one of mine. So everybody's skeptical, all waiting for Aaron to buddy. Go ahead. So everybody's skeptical, right? And they right, they right to be. There's just a tremendous amount of well, marketing runs everything they say and many times in many ways marketing has run the supplement industry irreparably.

[00:27:38] HANSEL: And so the challenges are how to prove your case, right? So I did a promotion a while back for a supplement company, and the, underlying theme was how to know if a weight loss supplement works before you buy. And so the way we introduced it then was by introducing the seven greatest nutrients ever assembled and the only supplement package you'll ever find with four US patents, So the unique mechanism was here's how you will know if a supplement works before you buy it. Look at the patents, That's how we broke through the minutia of doubt.

[00:28:17] HANSEL: that really gets to like the authority and credibility of the product, but that's if I trust you as the marketer. , how else do you build that authority and credibility for me as the customer, Well as this would fall more into Rachel's and Lord, I wish I'd had Rachel as the graphic designer on this project, but we had the host holding up four pieces of paper, And it says, , if you're sick and tired of all the weight loss, BS and lies, then take a look at these four pieces of paper in my hand. These are patent numbers and we give the patent numbers, right? And they've been awarded by the US Patent and Trademark Office to protect the delivery of this unique seven supplements, or seven ingredients in the supplement.

[00:28:56] HANSEL: And I'm butchering it, but that's it off the top of my head. But, That's how uh, we demonstrated the patents about visual representation and we gave the patent numbers themselves so that people could do their own research and Moved forward with the messaging from there. that first lead, those first 300 words are so critical that if you miss there, it doesn't matter what you say afterward.

[00:29:18] HANSEL: Yeah. This is when we bring in, like we look to see, have you been featured on any magazine or tv, like anything like that, that someone else is talking about you in a way, or like, was there a doctor or scientist who created this or can talk about some of the ingredients or we sometimes do like an us versus them comparison where you have X percentage more of a certain ingredient than any of your competitors , things like that.

[00:29:47] HANSEL: Just definitely bringing in that authority to say, we know what we're talking about and this is why we are better than everyone else.

[00:29:55] HANSEL: So at the. Ralph. Yeah, I think it's a credibility play at that point in time. It's , you've shown that others similar or like them in the testimonial videos and the love sandwich videos or other types of, which shows social an element of social proof that other people are saying that your product , is good.

[00:30:14] HANSEL: And it's gotten them to the solution that this particular market is trying to achieve. And then it's really, it's just a matter of credibility. And, to Aaron's point and to Rachel's point, it's really, it's, a matter of just showing, yeah, we actually do know what we're talking about here.

[00:30:27] HANSEL: And then it's a matter of the final stage is just giving them some kind of deal to push them over the. , and that's the thing that ultimately gets them to buy. know, , you see a lot of these sort of most aware ads as, just retargeting ads of just reminding, all right, well here's the price. Like, , you pull up in front of the, supermarket and you see what's on sale.

[00:30:46] HANSEL: from the banners that are in the windows. Like those are most aware markets. You don't need to know, like the benefits of Coca-Cola or whatever it happens to be. Like, you already know what Coke does. You just need an incentive to buy at that point in time. Well, this week only, 24 packs or $9 99 cents, , slash written down from 1499.

[00:31:06] HANSEL: So there's like your final piece to the puzzle. It's like, all right. Now that you've kind of gotten to the end of the line, what kind of deal or what kind of thing can you do as a marketer to push them over the line? For us, I think we do sort of combination of things at that stage. , this might be people who have added to cart and then abandoned.

[00:31:22] HANSEL: Or they might be just teetering on the edge, just looking for a reason to buy. So we'll typically say, Hey, , we give the right of first refusal. Did you forget to check out? Might be like, really simple, simple ad copy. At this stage, , hey, you know,, enter a coupon code X, y, Z for 10% off your first purchase, or 25% off your first purchase.

[00:31:45] HANSEL: Like at that level you're very deep. You're just teetering on the edge. Now, if you showed that ad to an unaware or problem aware market, you would be getting the whole sequence outta whack. , from a targeting perspective, we'll typically, , target only audiences that have hit the add to cart page or maybe initiated checkout and then didn't complete a transac.

[00:32:07] HANSEL: So we can target that very specifically, but on all the different social platforms, maybe not as well as we used to pre iOS. The point is you can get pretty granular in your targeting. One of the beauties of this too is that you can load up all your different types of creatives and all basically four or five levels here with dynamic creative, and then like Performance Max, you can throw them all in and then Google or Facebook, and this particular case will figure out where people are in your customer acquisition path and show the right ad at the right time based upon their previous action or where they actually are in the whole path, which relates directly back to levels of awareness.

[00:32:46] HANSEL: , I think it's a foundational concept. I do think that, to Rachel's point, to start off, you can't propose marriage on the first date. You can't show that ad with the product and the price to an audience that has no idea who you are. The sequence is outta whack. , in the 14 stages of relationships which Ryan Dice talks about.

[00:33:04] HANSEL: He said, if you don't get all the 14 stages right, like if you miss one or two, it's a salt . So it's the same thing here. You're going to disrupt the market or, that potential prospect is never gonna buy from you cuz you proposed marriage too early. ? So I think it's really important to think in these terms as a marketer more than anything, and how you pull it all together.

[00:33:27] HANSEL: You can put together different types of ads with different types of copy that are showing at different stages of awareness. Or you can do it all in one video, like the one that we sort of talked about to start off here, where you compress all five stages in one, two to three minute video and get people to purchase, in essence, who are unaware and problem aware right from the get go.

[00:33:46] HANSEL: Yeah, really. So back to that underwear level that's really about driving action, right? It's like getting people to take that action. And that really fundamentally comes down to the exchange of value, right? Have you made this more valuable for them to get than the money they're gonna trade you for it?

[00:34:00] HANSEL: So that can look like, , scarcity of the value's gonna go away, or it can look like, , the a deal where the value of the product you're gonna get is more valuable than what you're giving for that. And then we've kind of been a little bit bold in creating one last level of awareness. Ralph, you wanna hit on the last, our made up level of awareness, outcome aware?

[00:34:20] HANSEL: Yeah. This is a bit maybe the word is apocryphal because we're actually, we're changing this, whole five levels awareness and adding on a sixth level. I'm gonna blame Ryan Dice for that one, but we added it into how we view advertising and marketing in general. And the customer acquisition amplification framework is, once you've actually bought, how can you get them to buy again, not necessarily cross sell them different products, which is sort of in the most aware or level five sort of purchase market.

[00:34:50] HANSEL: But these are people that have had experience with your product and just need a really distinct reason to buy more. And it's almost like at that level it's nostalgia. It's like, , remember how great this thing was? Let's remind you either through an email or through a retargeting ad to get you to buy it again.

[00:35:09] HANSEL: Or maybe you forgot, , your 30 day supply ran out, but you forgot to get it. now . Isn't it true? there's a, whatever it is, like a moisturizer or whatever it happens to be like, Hey, is your skin now all of a sudden dry again, 45 to 60 days out like it might be time to reorder, might be time to actually stock up and here's a great deal you can get, , three for the price of two, something like that.

[00:35:31] HANSEL: So you give them some kind of incentive to buy again. And that sixth level is sort of our nostalgic level, which is truly outcome aware cuz they've already experienced the product. It's just you as a marketer reminding them of the reasons why they bought in the first place and then potentially giving them a little bit of an incentive to buy again.

[00:35:49] HANSEL: Nice. Thanks. So Rachel, let's have you do a quick recap of like what customer might see at each of these levels. Awareness. Okay, so if we're going to stick with the joint supplement so level one could be like an image ad with the dog walking. Maybe someone even sitting on a bench like looking sad because they can't walk their dog.

[00:36:09] HANSEL: And the copy could be more of like a storytelling style long form kind of introducing them to the problem. And, , this just making them aware. Level two, we could focus on like some testimonial videos. And again, the copy can be speaking to some of the ingredients that can solve some of these problems and all of that.

[00:36:27] HANSEL: Level three, we could bring in some social proof of a magazine that they were featured in talking about how much more of a certain ingredient is in this versus anything they've seen before. Level four, we. Maybe just EPA ads, and then the copy would just be, Hey, did you forget about us? Did you leave something in your cart?

[00:36:45] HANSEL: Like that type of stuff. And then level five could be, kind of that reminder of, Hey, you bought this product, we also have this. Or it could be, it's been 30 days. Do you wanna restock? Do you want to subscribe and get this every month and save? So yeah, that's kind of like a quick rundown of So if you started to hit a little bit on kind of the more technical media buying aspect of this what would you say is like the hardest level here to really advertised too? Yeah, I mean, Schwartz says it in the book that, the people who can figure out, , level one and level two especially, are the ones that command the biggest salaries.

[00:37:21] HANSEL: in essence says that level five, it's easy. All you need to do is just give 'em a deal, like, and a reason to buy. Now, it doesn't really involve a whole lot of creativity, but at level one, level two those are the most challenging and those are the ones that if you look, relate it back to the advertising world, we probably spend the most time on that.

[00:37:38] HANSEL: I think, , Aaron and Rachel can probably attest to this, sometimes we might test a hundred different ways in which to approach that level one, level two market. And because it's so challenging and because most markets are what Schwartz refers to as very sophisticated, they've seen it all before, , and the joint pain market, for example, like they've seen it all before.

[00:37:59] HANSEL: You gotta give them some kind of unique way of which to look at the same problem. And I think that's the key and, peak their curiosity at those very high levels. And that's hard to do. I think that's the hardest thing to do in all of marketing, quite honestly. And, , we've got some people here on this call that have been able to do that and create hundreds of millions of dollars in revenue for our customers.

[00:38:24] HANSEL: The reason is that that creativity at the very, very top, at the very start of the levels of awareness is a big challenge. So yeah, and then if you really look at where the ad spend is, if you just sort of break that out, I once did an analysis of, , on the five levels of awareness, where are we spending the most amount of money and where are we spending the least?

[00:38:43] HANSEL: I remember did an analysis on a customer that was spending a million dollars a month. We were spending 800,000 on level one, level two hats, which makes all the sense in the world. And at the level five, , the deepest level or maybe even some retargeting into level six or apocryphal level six.

[00:39:02] HANSEL: you know, , it was less than. Two, $3,000. and if you look at the performance of those ads, the ones that are at the 80%, the 800,000 in spend, they might be break even. know, , you spend 800,000, you get maybe 800,000 in sales back, but it's as soon as you start getting into the deeper levels, like level three, level four, level five, your ad spend typically will decrease.

[00:39:26] HANSEL: But the persuasion is more formulaic. Like Rachel said, okay, we know that they've engaged with a video of ours. They know that they're probably problem aware, they're no longer unaware. Now it's time for us to start talking about a solution and then what our solution actually is, get them to the next step, which is maybe one ad, maybe two ads, maybe three ads.

[00:39:49] HANSEL: It all depends on how good those assets are, but I would say, Without a doubt. It's the top of the funnel. It's the top of this whole awareness stage that's the most challenging. And the one that we probably I would say spend the majority of our time trying to crack. Yeah. Even if you just think about how Rachel and Aaron were talking about them in the beginning, Aaron gave how many different examples of possible uses for joint supplement, right?

[00:40:12] HANSEL: Neck, knee, elbow, hands. And then Rachel gave only a single example of what that might manifest as like walking your dog. But how many other options are there? It's like pretty much infinite trying to find what problems and what entertaining or light educational creative you can do to get people motivated.

[00:40:30] HANSEL: It's kind of like starting with a blank canvas, right? It's always harder to start from a blank canvas than a paint by numbers. I think we. Spend most of our time is really figuring out what the campus can even have on it. Let's see. Anybody else have any other thoughts or questions?

[00:40:43] HANSEL: We could probably continue talking about this, and it's mostly been me asking questions. what are some of your favorite points about Eugene's, schwar, levels of awareness, or any other questions you wanna ask?

[00:40:54] HANSEL: No, fine. I'll go as a video editor, I really like the ability to combine multiple levels of awareness into a single piece. Like when you're doing copy, I guess you could do it a bit with copy too, but images, you're really kind of stuck at individual levels of awareness. But with a video, you can tell a story that walks somebody from unaware to problem aware, to solution aware, to product aware, and maybe even getting them to take action within that same video.

[00:41:17] HANSEL: So As a video editor, I like thinking about that in terms of like, story blocks. I would agree. I think that's the most satisfying just because it's, the easiest. I mean, if you can compress all five levels of awareness into one video asset or one creative asset, I mean, you've, struck gold and I we're using this example of this one ad that we did in the supplement space, but in our joint supplement example here, finding that ad or finding that video or that story that we can weave at the very top of the levels of awareness and ultimately taking them all the way through all five levels they purchase.

[00:41:52] HANSEL: that's, certainly my favorite for sure. And it's far more efficient than having to create different ads for each level. But not everyone is gonna go that route. I don't care how great you are. Like even the people that are on this call, like in most cases, Video assets or top of funnel sort of ads that we create, don't convert everybody.

[00:42:11] HANSEL: So what are you gonna do with the people that are left over? And I think the example I use out of a hundred people that might see that ad, maybe one in a hundred if you're lucky, might buy depending on what the price point is and all things being equal. So then you have to have a strategy for the 99 others that you've already spent money on to create a level of awareness of what it is that you do.

[00:42:30] HANSEL: Or maybe giving them the level of awareness of their problem. And you haven't even presented the solution as of yet. Like what are you going to do at all those different levels? And I think , it sort of comes down to the graphic that you referred to earlier, Tom, as like using that framework and understanding that you do need assets , that will take all of those other 99.

[00:42:51] HANSEL: To the ultimate destination, which is to purchase. You might not get all 99, but if you can get a large majority of them, you've done your job as a marketer for sure. Yeah. That's when you really dial into your avatars too and like really get into their specific heads and talk to them. We even fragment it out of like, we're at level two, but we're going to talk to three different avatars in a different way.

[00:43:13] HANSEL: So that's really when you talk to them, like you got all these people in the door, now you need to talk to them where they're.

[00:43:19] HANSEL: Yeah, and I think this is also a dream of marketers to think of this as a singular customer journey, but I mean, we used to be able to control it a bit more with strong retargeting and different levels of traffic. But now with, , improvements in Facebook's algorithm for finding people the right person at the right time and performance max, , being everywhere all the time, finding the right person, right time, right ad right platform.

[00:43:40] HANSEL: Like, it's really important that we have so many different creatives for each of these levels of awareness, for each of these avatars, for each of these problems. Aaron, how do you approach copy for these different levels of awareness? , right? So the old axiom is, , long copy doesn't work.

[00:43:57] HANSEL: Short copy is too short, right? So where's the balance? The balance is this, and it's neither too long. It's neither too short. It's just too boring or too irrelevant to that level of marketing, right? almost always when it comes to level one, you're gonna have to have longer copy, almost always, unless we're talking about socks or, if I have a headache, I don't need a freaking 1600 word blog post.

[00:44:19] HANSEL: I just need to click and buy, And so, to Rachel's point, it's very specific to the level of awareness. Listen, when, someone is in a high state of emotional arousal, they'll forgive a lot of. Missteps in your marketing, but when someone is, , skeptical, you can't miss those spots, right?

[00:44:39] HANSEL: And so you have to take the time to flesh out, especially on , the level one where you're trying to reach the cold audience. It's wont typically take a bit more copy than your, too long lines of copy and an image. it's just very specific to the product and the target audience at any given time and where they are on their awareness of level levels of awareness, I should say.

[00:45:00] HANSEL: it's hard to sum up that it will do one thing one way and one thing another way when there's so many variables out there dictating how we actually move forward. Think Aaron brings up a really good point here. The overlaid on this whole thing is and I think Schwartz gets into it in the later stages of the book, is levels of intent.

[00:45:18] HANSEL: So everyone has a different level of intent. Like somebody who has a, a throbbing headache has a very high intent to get a solution. Whereas, I'll just use one just off the top of my head just because I was just in the kitchen before we started here today, is like, I've got this iron pan that sits on our, stove top and it has like these rust spots on it and we can't seem to ever get them out.

[00:45:40] HANSEL: It's like, is there a solution out there for rust spots on an iron pan? Yeah, there probably is. There's probably packages you can buy with, know, , acrylic brushes and all these sorts of things that I can go and I can solve that problem, but my level of intent is low. I'm like, I don't really care. I'll just sort of rinse it out and then use it the next time.

[00:45:58] HANSEL: You know what I mean? But all of a sudden if I go into the kitchen and I realize I don't have a pan and I want to cook a fried egg, My level of intent is really high. I might run across the street and grab, , go to the hardware store and buy myself a frying pan. So my level of intent is different in both cases.

[00:46:14] HANSEL: And I think you have to keep that in mind when you're, talking to your market and the people that have low levels of intent might never buy from you. And that's okay. , but that's sort of an overlay that Schwartz actually makes in the book. Keep this in mind. You're not gonna get everyone, like I said before, if you have a hundred people who see your ad, one might buy on that first impression, the other 99, you're not gonna get all 99.

[00:46:40] HANSEL: It depends on the level of intent. That's sort of where that sort of breaks up. So maybe you might get, , 45 out of 99 if you do this right. If you listen to everything that we've talked about here, the other 44, you're just never gonna get, cuz the level of intent is so low.

[00:46:54] HANSEL: You guys make advertising seem complicated and hard.

[00:47:00] HANSEL: I think that's why we love it cuz it is so like, complicated, hard. When you win, it feels really good. But , Ralph, your favorite analogy, right? Hall of Famers, if you're hitting 300, you're in the hall or baseball. If you're hitting 300, you're in the Hall of Fame and we're happy to get those kind of numbers when we can.

[00:47:15] HANSEL: Any final thoughts here on this topic?

[00:47:18] HANSEL: The average major League baseball average is 2 45, , and a hall of Famer is over 300, right? So if, you're doing this and you're, successful 25% of the time you're actually in the major leagues.

[00:47:30] HANSEL: Literally, So there is a high degree of failure with all of this and , we just talked to a customer this past week and they're frustrated because, , we've tried a hundred iterations of their top of funnel ads and we haven't found the unicorn ad yet. Just give us some time and we'll figure it out.

[00:47:48] HANSEL: So there is a lot of trial and error in this whole process and I think you have to understand that as a marketer and just sort of accept it and have thick skin that your best idea. Aaron, as we always talk about, it's like usually the ad that's the worst performing ad. That's the one that you sort of discount, throw to the side and say, ah, that'll never work.

[00:48:05] HANSEL: That's the one that works. So I think there is a lot of trial and error here. Tom, back to your baseball analogy. Sometimes it's hard for marketers to keep that in mind cuz they want everything to work and it's just not going to, right. And to play off the analogy, we're in the big leagues.

[00:48:18] HANSEL: If you're in digital marketing, you're playing at the highest levels or you're soon out of the game. Right. I think it works perfectly , to the point of the client who is having to be patient for us to get to where we want to be. I mean, once it hits, it's a home run.

[00:48:35] HANSEL: It's a freaking home run. Yeah, and I think one other thing to keep in mind of how many touches it takes to really convert somebody, even those that you nail, , Google, when they've been talking about the performance Max doing all their data analysis, they say it takes 500 impressions for somebody to become a customer.

[00:48:51] HANSEL: So think about that when you're creating all these different ads, very rarely what there be one unicorn that does all the work. There will be some that carry a mo a lot of the load, but there still has to be a lot more impressions from a lot different ads to really get people as they engage and buy your product.

[00:49:06] HANSEL: Right. Well, Rachel, Ralph Aaron, thank you very much for joining us today. If you'd like to continue this conversation and learn more about how Tier 11 can help you find your right customer and acquire them and then increase their lifetime value using Eugene Schwartz's levels of awareness, our customer acquisition amplification framework, then please reach out to us@tiereleven.com.

[00:49:28] HANSEL: And if you want that graphic that I put up briefly, please email me tom tier eleven.com and I will send that over to you.

[00:49:36] HANSEL: sorry, we have one last chat right before we go on from Thomas. Love. Someone has to get this chat off, so I guess it'll be me, Thomas, love. Do you have any questions? Hello.

[00:49:45] HANSEL: So Rafu gave the example of the Le Super Foods. Who else has examples of like memorable ads at one of these levels of awareness or so kind of how Ralph was talking, that it'll usually be the one that like, you're not married to, like, along my journey of being a designer, like I've learned to never get fall in love with anything I work on because it'll never be the one that

[00:50:04] HANSEL: So one of the. one that pops in my head was literally just a picture of the founder. They had dog supplements and like beds and stuff. And they had it was just a picture of the founder with his dog just like taken on his phone. And it had this really long story copy and that performed amazing.

[00:50:21] HANSEL: Like we could not beat it . So sometimes it's the things that you don't automatically, it doesn't have to be like the super overproduced things. If anything nowadays, it's the more genuine you can be. Like that's what people are looking for. So that stands out to me. Such a good point, Rachel Sometimes.

[00:50:38] HANSEL: Ugly wins in ways that just shocks all of us. And you're like, wow. But it's not uncommon because back in the early days of magazine advertising, the makeup and cosmetic industries were battling it out with high gloss pictures and magazines and, , those things that were that thick.

[00:50:57] HANSEL: And one of those companies decided just to break the pattern and go out with nothing but CIA ads and took over the market because it just broke the norm. Yeah. C p a that reminds me of Daniel, our producer on this, when he was a art director, he created an ad that was totally in beige because that was the brand color for some reason, and nobody expected it work.

[00:51:19] HANSEL: It was. Ugliest most boring ad, but it crushed. It was the control and they could never beat it. Thomas la asked, what is a Trojan Horse video? Yeah, I can answer this one if you'd like. This is probably like you were asking what our, some of our favorite ads are. I was actually thinking of another one, but this is probably one of the best ones, and it's one that I think we've been running for five plus years now, and it's gotten even better with some of the new ad types that now Facebook has, is in essence it's positioning your product, or in this case of this particular example, sort of a grouping of products as the solution to the problem.

[00:51:56] HANSEL: And in our case here, the torsion horse. Video ad formula is in essence for our customer of our, who's in the health and beauty space, and they have a spokesperson that talks about,, getting that, I think it was like that fresh, newly made up look like right at like in under 10 minutes.

[00:52:14] HANSEL: Like how do you actually do that as soon as you wake up? How do you actually get in five to 10 minutes? , this particular look. So the end goal is, , this particular, , beauty look that correlates back to maybe a problem I didn't know that I had. But this video actually shows me potentially how to solve it.

[00:52:33] HANSEL: So I'm curious cuz I want to kind of get what this looks like. But then in the video itself, the woman actually goes through the spokesperson. She goes through the four different products that she uses in order to get that look and in essence takes the viewer from. here's your before state, here's your after state.

[00:52:52] HANSEL: You want this after state, let me show you how to get to that after state. And we do it with four specific products. Those four products just so happen to be sold by her company. So in the video itself shows her actually how to use it, how you use each individual component of it, how she sort of dabs it on her face, how she, sort of smudges it in.

[00:53:11] HANSEL: I know nothing about makeup, like with all the terminology, but in essence, how to use these four products very specific. And then, oh, by the way, there's also a carousel right underneath the video that you can click and buy each individual product or the bundle itself to get the look. that's in essence a Trojan Horse Video ad where you are positioning your basket of products or your product as a solution to, either achieve a desire or to solve a problem. How do we get that, , fresh made up look in five minutes in the morning, like when I have to rush off and go to work. Like how do you do it with four products?

[00:53:48] HANSEL: And oh by the way, , you can get those four products here at this special deal price of a bundle together. So you're combining everything from level one, unaware and problem where all the way to level five, where you're giving them a deal and you do it in one video. And those ads have run, I believe about five years.

[00:54:07] HANSEL: I don't know if you remember off the top of your head, Rachel, I think you worked on that account for a while, but Yeah, absolutely tremendous. And still pulled to this day. It's crazy. Yeah, again, using those levels of customer awareness, right? It's education, education, education, showing your solution as the solution or your products as a solution.

[00:54:24] HANSEL: Thomas Laugh asked, does it work for services? Can you use a Trojan horse for services?

[00:54:28] HANSEL: I certainly would. I mean in the case of Tier 11, for example, we have a service or we have multiple customers that have a service. I think you can show them, like we have a lawn company that, , they have a service specifically to beautify your lawn.

[00:54:41] HANSEL: So in some of their, , sort of level one top of funnel ads, they show how to actually beautify your lawn with certain products or certain techniques that they use, and then sort of show people this is how you do it. And oh, by the way, like you can do it on your own or you can have us do it for you and here's the desired end state.

[00:55:02] HANSEL: , have a lawn that everyone in the neighborhood is jealous about, , or have a lawn that you're no longer embarrassed. So you sort of combine this education with the desire or the problem, sort of mash it all together in one specific video and then say, oh, by the way, , , you can go out, you can get an aerator, you can get a fertilizer thingy that you walk around and then you have to go out and you have to get,, sprinkler systems for your yard and to be able to do all that and set them up in the right way.

[00:55:29] HANSEL: Or you can have us do it all and you can have the most beautiful lawn in the neighborhood, or you're no longer gonna be embarrassed about all the weeds that are in your yard. yeah, you can absolutely do it. I think the, the Trojan Horse video style is, tremendous because usually, it's pretty entertaining, it's informative.

[00:55:45] HANSEL: It, , it educates and it, captivates and it's, there's a lot of curiosity that goes along with it. So I think it can be pretty widespread. And we certainly do it in tier 11 videos. That's for darn sure. Oh, we, it's kind of meta. We did a Trojan horse ad about Trojan Horse video ads to generate leads for tier 11, so that is true.

[00:56:04] HANSEL: That's right. You shot that one. I remember. Yeah, in Boston. That was fun. Okay, so Zach has a question here. Let's see. Hello. In greets from the US when you see an ad is not performing as intended, what methods do you utilize to find the right solution to the problem? Yeah, so really this is like the second, so we talked about like the very beginning strategy when we were trying to get people in initially is called traffic.

[00:56:29] HANSEL: Like the second time that we kind of go back to the drawing board and spend a lot of time strategizing. It's easy when you find one that's working and we're just like, cool, why do you think this is working? How can we iterate on it when it's not performing? That's a little more tricky. So we really dissect the ads of like, this is when we start testing, like was it the copy that wasn't working or was it the creative?

[00:56:49] HANSEL: And then if the copy is working creative's not like we start looking at some of these KPIs of were people clicking on the ad and not buying after? Do we have to look at the landing page? Like was there a reason people are watching for like three seconds of the video and then they're dropping off?

[00:57:03] HANSEL: Are we not holding their attention? Like, this is when we really like, dissect the ad and figure out what's, really like not working about it and what, we can tweak. And sometimes it's just a little tweak. Like sometimes it's just something just to get them into the next three seconds of the video.

[00:57:19] HANSEL: But other times it's just we need to scrap it completely and come up with a new angle. it is really worth going into Ads Manager and digging around on some of the stats. Like you talk about the hook rate, the first three seconds, the hold rate or at, they stick around for 15 seconds.

[00:57:32] HANSEL: Then there's click through rate. Like, are you actually getting people to take the action that you want? And then you of course, like, are they converting? Cuz those don't always go together all the time. Another thing that I've done in the past is finding a couple different video ads that are good in each of those.

[00:57:49] HANSEL: So if one has a really good hook, something else holds longer, try combining those together. It's really about just looking, trying to figure out what is causing people to do the things that you want them to do and combining those and iterating on those. Okay. Any other questions over here? I don't see anything else. If you do have more questions just leave them as comments in the video and we'll respond to them and probably use them as inspiration for making TikTok tos and, , having more conversations like these. If you wanna see a great TikTok by Aaron Crocker talking about , how you shouldn't be using the word you and calling people out on your Facebook ads.

[00:58:28] HANSEL: Head over to our TikTok and look for Aaron talking to Aaron and learning why the metasphere is Disneyland. Otherwise, thank you all for joining us and we'll be doing a lot more of these in the future. Thank you Rachel, Ralph, and Aaron. And we're out.