Why Emotional Intelligence Beats Raw Discipline in Leadership with Dr. Barry Davis

Barry [00:00:00] I would want to create an environment for the kid that he has the challenges and we're gonna make it difficult, but we're not gonna punish him, but we're gonna make him do certain things.

Hector Fellas. What's going on? I hope this episode finds you well, and I hope this episode leaves you better than when it found you. Today's episode is with Dr. Barry Davis and he is the author of a new book called Old the Dog New Tricks. And I wanna get the subtitle correct here because it is, I think a very powerful book.

Hector The subtitle is called The Power of Leading With Emotional Intelligence, and whether you are a father, a husband, a coach, some, any. Responsibility that you have as a man requires you to be a leader of some sort. And so I think it's going to be a great conversation for everyone, but we get into some of the, the softer side of being a coach and a leader and how to navigate, you know, the emotional side of those challenges.

Hector And, it's a good conversation that spans all of the places. But after almost [00:01:00] four decades of being a coach, Dr. Barry is coming on to share, what he has learned. And so enough about that for me. Let's get into this great episode with Dr. Barry Davis. Dr.

Hector Barry, welcome to the Modern Masculinity Podcast. It's a honor and pleasure to have you here. Oh, I am excited

Barry to be here. It's good. All

Hector good. All of our guests will get into the book and congrats on that. And the release of that and, and congrats on, you know, this this new career shift and all those things, but.

Hector I always ask our guests to sort of take us into the muck of their world, you know, the things that they're still challenged with or going through. 'cause I, I find that on a, podcast a lot of times, you know, we hear about people's. Accolades and all the great things that they've accomplished and, and it almost seems like they've got it all figured out.

Hector And, perhaps that's the case. but I'd love to know sort of what things you as a man, as a husband, as a leader, you know, the sort of the things that you're still mucking through, if you will.

Barry Well, there's plenty of muck , to [00:02:00] walk through. I think establishing a routine has been always been difficult.

Barry staying in the moment, which, I mean, I know what to do. It's just doing it and being able to balance things that are important and staying on task. That's something that, I wouldn't say I struggle with, but it's, challenging. I have a son in Pittsburgh. I have a daughter in la.

Barry been married three times, you know, so I've had a lot of failure. With, relationships, I mean, it's a two-way street, so it, but you know, I, I was in there. I think the challenge for me is trying to reconnect with my family because I grew up in Virginia, but I've lived primarily my adult life in New Jersey and Pennsylvania.

Barry so those types of things, making sure the people in my life that I recognize that they are important and I. Continue to, you know, work hard to connect with them. 'cause I'm not getting any younger, you know, I mean, I'm 60. so there's just a lot of personal challenges. I mean, I've always excelled [00:03:00] at, whatever I decided I wanted to do.

Barry and this case, I've done that. But the challenges in the muck that, as you say is, routines and staying on task and relationships with the people in my family.

Hector Yeah, I think it's a, something that a lot of men, I'm sure take for granted about being in routine and being sort of around the guise.

Hector You know, I grew up in a big part of my life growing up was sports and then it was, we were working in, I was in a, a sales organization and, but I was always sort of part of a team. Then I got into, you know, running my own business and being a solopreneur and being an entrepreneur. And there was all of that sort of, all that regimen sort of went away.

Hector And also the, the sort of accountability, the comradery. And, it was, it was sort of upon me to sort of create that for myself. And I find that that is a, a huge challenge. 'cause as much as I love the flexibility and I love the being able to work from home, I look at, what those other.

Hector Let's just call 'em paths, [00:04:00] sort of, present or, or, provide. and it just makes me, like you said, it makes me a little more intentional about what is the routine that I have to create for myself. What is the, the structure, you know, that I have to impose on myself, even though sometimes, like you said, doesn't necessarily come as, as naturally per se, as I would hope, frankly.

Barry Right. And this is the first time. In my adult life that I actually do not get up and go to the office to coach a baseball team. this'll be the first spring that I have not been either told or Because I'm the coach. It's the first time since 1980 that I will not have to go to the field.

Hector What has that experience been like?

Barry Well, I haven't gotten there yet. I'm trying to look at it as positive, you know, as I have freedom to go, to see some of the things and do some of the things that I was never allowed to do because I was always on the field.

Barry I am going to do some broadcasting with ESPN Plus, which will keep me around the game a little bit. but yeah, it's gonna be [00:05:00] a big, a big difference knowing that. February 14th or fifth, whatever the, first weekend is that I won't be on a bus headed to, North Carolina or South Carolina. So, yeah, it's gonna be a big change.

Barry So I, I've prepared myself, I think. So we're gonna see, we're gonna see, I, I have plenty to do to keep me busy, so I'll try to stay focused. Like I said, that's one of the things, you know, I need to continue to work on.

Hector A younger me would've been like, oh, what does this guy got to, like, what does he have to complain about?

Hector Like, it's a sort of a non-issue, right? Ah, you're retired. Oh, you know, now you've got all this extra time, boohoo sort of thing. And also, you know, I see my, my mother recently, she retired a few years ago and she was in a much less of a, of an identity role. she worked for, the city of LA for, you know, a few decades but to that point, she still had to find This new identity, she sort of had to create it. It just, it wasn't something that, sort of followed her. And, and, [00:06:00] and if she wanted to, I could see how like, if she wanted to still be the person that she was when she was working, how that could sort of eat her up a little bit because it wasn't possible.

Hector She didn't have the same community. She wasn't around the same sort of people. And so, has there been an intentional sort of. Restructuring of that. have you started to think about, you know, what, is your new identity or how, you might craft that in this new stage of your life?

Barry I think about it, from time to time, but I was always identified as coach. I've been a coach and I think that, that'll never leave. You know, you're always a coach or, you know, I mean, I have, former players that are 50 years old calling me coach. I'm 60, they're 50. I mean, I coached 'em when I was young, but, I think the identity thing, you know, if I don't find the identity that I'm in now, I wrote the book and I, I'm doing some speaking and consulting and moving around, trying to stay connected with people, in athletics, in leadership roles, you know, that type of thing.

Barry I mean, I'm just [00:07:00] gonna have to forge my own path and just can continue to work at the things that I wanna do. 10, that's more or less help other people, help programs, help other coaches, help administrators, leaders, based on the experience that I've had. So that's, the path I'm taking, that's the mindset that I'm taking.

Barry So, but it is difficult when you've been the guy, you know, you're the guy that's in charge and, That's a big, responsibility. And, and I loved it and I loved it. now I'm kind of on the, out trying to work myself back into something where people look at me and say, okay, he also does this.

Barry and he's not just a coach. He can do other things. So yeah. That's a great question.

Hector Yeah. One of the, sort of motifs or themes that comes up on this show is this ability to. Know who we are without our career or family. And I, I mentioned this a lot and so our listeners will get their bingo card, I was at an event one time and the, you know, the icebreaker was [00:08:00] to introduce yourself to the other guys without talking about your work or your family.

Hector it was the first time that I had to think about, well, who am I if I wasn't, I'm not a business owner, if I'm not a dad, if I'm not, you know, underneath all of that, who am I? And I think that these moments, these sort of transitions that you're in, at least present an opportunity for us to re-familiarize ourself with.

Hector Okay. Underneath coach who is, you know, Barry underneath all that. 'cause that is sort of. If we want to use some, loose language like that is sort of a mask or that's sort of the shield or this sort of this, this sort of role that we played. But underneath that, you know, Barry was still sort of, you know, persisting and, and I think that whether it's a career shift or a relationship or even a new kit, these life sort of events present these opportunities for us as men to sort of.

Hector Reacquaint ourselves. Remember oftentimes it seems, or, or even for the first time, figure out, you know, who that guy really is.

Barry know, it's always like the question is, well, when you [00:09:00] pass at your funeral, what would they say about you? and so you tell your players that, or you say, Hey, what, what do you want people to remember about you when you played here or when, you were in this situation?

Barry So, I would like to think people would say, you know, driven, had, goals, he was a, Someone, competitive, but he also was, once you got to know him, you know, he was easy to talk to. He would do anything for you. one of the things I try to do with every single text message of people that I have relationships with is call me if you ever need anything.

Barry And I mean that if you need anything, call me. and I'll do what I can to help you. And if I can't help you, I'll try to find someone who can. So I think that's one of the traits is trying to help others become better at what they do. And, I want people to think of me that way. you know, whether I was coaching or not, that was easy to talk to.

Barry And, hopefully I'm somebody too that would listen to you. And I think that's one of the things I'm working on too, as a little mucky thing. Is there being a better listener.

Hector What have you learned about, [00:10:00] you know, I think about the sort of a coming of age and. I think that that sort of is, restricted sometimes, or people only think that people are doing that when they're younger.

Hector Right. But I, I also think that, you know, there's the old adage of. You can't teach an old dog new tricks, and by all means, you're not old. You're, you know, you've got plenty of youth left in you. But it's the idea of someone who has done something for so long. The idea of reinventing themselves seems, you know, like it seems imp you can't do it when I'm constantly looking for the guys who.

Hector Who are, sometimes they're forced to do it, but, sort of take that, they take that challenge head on and, and do reinvent themselves. You know, I think there's the, the classic example of like, you know, someone like a, like a Tom Brady, right? Who was, world class in one area and, you know, has all these personal and professional challenges and still finds a way to sort of reinvent himself and become, you know.

Hector don't know if he's the best at, end of his [00:11:00] new sort of, you know, career, but at least he's sort of taken what made him great in one arena and found a way to apply it to another. And I see that, not everybody makes that leap. You know, a lot of people get stuck in their old identity and aren't really able to transition to whatever the next phase of life is.

Hector Well,

Barry that's one of the great things about athletics, and I think it's important that they have athletics in college and have athletics in high school because you learn teamwork, you learn how to, sacrifice. You learn how to, you know, there's discipline. You have to, you know, there's structure you know, there's failure, and success, I mean, depends.

Barry there's a lot of things about that that are aligned in parallel, just life in general. you know, and being in it for so long, I've got a really good understanding of failing 'cause I have failed and I've won. but at the end of the day, what do people think about you?

Barry You know, were you somebody that , they looked up to that I set the example, you know, am I doing it now? I'm [00:12:00] trying to do a lot of the same things as a coach. When I was coaching now as a. Speaker, you know, wrote the book and, and, and just, you know, being around other leaders. So a lot of those principles that I learned and that I exhibited on a day-to-day basis.

Barry And then going back to the young me and the older me, I mean, the last 10 years, I wish I could take those 10 years and move 'em back another 10 or 15 or 20, you know, because, I'm more patient now. See things differently and I'm not quick to judge. I mean, all of the things that we wanna be, you know, the experience now, the being older, and seeing things not getting upset so fast, and just, being a lot more calmer, a lot more steady.

Barry And, so I, I talk to myself a lot. I do a self-talk a lot about those types of things. And, I think it'll help me transition to the next. Job or next chapter, of what I'm trying to do or what [00:13:00] I'm going to do.

Hector Yeah. I think one of the great things about sort of these evolutions, if you will, is that you don't necessarily start from scratch.

Hector You sort of take at least the skills or the experiences that you've, gained and bring those into the next sort of arena. and I think that that's important for men to sort of. I get clear on, you know, I, I remember thinking, like having these moments when my relationship was falling apart and, you know, trying to hold it together as a dad and keep the business running.

Hector It's like, what worth do I have? You know, it was literally like the, sort of the questions that I was wrestling with. And I think it's, important for guys to sort of remind them that those experiences, That the way in which we handle adversity is something that we can carry forward.

Hector And so even if it's just our response to challenges that, that is something worth, worth efforting for.  I, I just, I can imagine that being really hard for guys when they're making a, big [00:14:00] transition in life and changing, you know, sort of their identity of who they thought they would be into something that.

Hector 'cause a lot of times they hadn't even considered. Right. I remember for the first time, for me it was like having a kid, I thought that I would want to be a dad, but I'd never like seen or like put on that identity. I never sort of wore that identity to now, sort of live in that. I think as a, totally different experience for guys.

Barry I mean it's, a day to day. It's, we're work in progress. It's,  Trying to be good at what I want to do, just trying to be the best I can do, make the connections, talk to people, that keeps me motivated, keeps me fueled, keeps me focused. So there is some motivation there. And, that's kind of how I've done things my whole life though.

Hector One of the unique things about being a, coach and is, and I, I didn't spend a whole lot of time coaching, at all. Actually. I played, you know, years and years of sports and, and had dozens of coaches, but I always sort of studied Not studied, observed, the good ones. you know, I studied some of the great coaches like the John [00:15:00] Wooden's and stuff like that, but it, what I realized is that it, it was a great, playground to learn, whether it's parenting skills or whether it's being a business.

Hector I mean, there's so many opportunities where we are called to be a leader. And, I would imagine that some of those skills, some of those. mindsets have helped in your ability to be a, a father or to, parent, you know, to be a husband, all those sorts of things. what sort of skills or habits do you find yourself carrying into your, you know, daily personal life that you sort of honed and developed, on the field?

Barry Well, I, I would say the one thing is I, I have three values that I try to live by. One of them is self-discipline. So. If I tell you I'm gonna do it, I'm gonna do it. You know, like if I don't feel like working out, I'm gonna work out. if I don't feel like going out and doing, you know, doing yard work, or I don't feel like going to this event, I can still go, you know, it's the discipline, getting up on time, telling yourself, Hey, I'm gonna be up in the morning and [00:16:00] I'm gonna do it, and I do it.

Barry I'm gonna do what I say I'm gonna do, even if I don't feel like doing it. So the commitment is greater than the feelings. The second one. I want to be excellent at everything I do. So every single thing that I work at, I want it to be, not perfect, but I want it to be excellent. So when I got down here for the, podcast, the recording here, I wanna make sure the microphone's right.

Barry I wanna make sure everything is exactly the way it should be. And everything that I do, I wanna do it at the highest level. And that's something consistently that I want to continue to do on a day-to-day basis. And the third value is just, personal fulfillment. I wanna be happy at what I'm doing.

Barry And I think that's important because I think some of the challenges back as a young person, I wasn't as happy doing some of the things I wasn't, as happy, as I probably should have been. So I wanna do things that, fulfill the things that I enjoy doing, but. the big one there is excellence.

Barry Trying [00:17:00] to be the best at, you know, and understanding that I can't be perfect, I get that. But the process of trying to be really, really good at something, I mean really at a high level and everything. I would say that if I'm making a peanut butter and jelly sandwich, I wanna make the perfect peanut butter and jelly.

Barry I want it to be just, you know, like, I want it to be good. I want it to be Excellent. So excellence in everything. So I think that would be the theme.

Hector Yeah. I love that you say excellence and, and you contrast it against perfection because growing up I always, mm, I wouldn't do things unless I was good at them, you know, and it sort of, it prevented me from trying out things, experimenting, testing things, and,

Hector Also, you know, kept me at a, a beginner level at a lot of things that if I would've just acknowledged the need for effort or acknowledged the need to put in the time, then I could have excelled at things, you know, much sooner or earlier. and I think that the. The thing that was in my mind holding me back was I [00:18:00] wanted it to be perfect, and if it wasn't gonna be perfect, then I didn't want to do it.

Hector 'cause then it would eat at my own identity and I would, you know, I am so somehow less than because, you know, I can't create this thing that's, you know, perfection or whatever. when, to your point, We're not going to be perfect, but we can be excellent. And, you know, I grew up a Raiders fan, which is sort of a, a tough things these days, but they're, you know, the motto of Al Davis, the famous owner is, you know, commitment to excellence.

Hector that sort of stuck with me and I love that he chose, you know, excellence. as the word 'cause to your point, it is just the best that it can be. and that is, is always something I think that's worth striving for. and also something that as I'm, as I'm being honest and, and reflecting, I'm like, there's so many areas where I am cutting corners or I'm not, being excellent at, because.

Hector It's tiring or it's, you know, annoying or insert whatever, but go to your first, you know, point. If you, bring in the self-discipline part, excellence, you know, becomes a lot, a lot easier or more accessible.

Barry I [00:19:00] mean, you go, grocery shopping, how many grocery carts are all scattered all over the parking lot.

Barry All you have to do is walk an extra 40, 30, 20 feet. To take it back where it's supposed to be. I don't get it. That's just lazy. Or people will, you know, they'll wait to park, you know, 15 feet closer to the building that the supermarket or the department store or whatever it is, instead of just park and walk.

Barry I mean, so again, it's a, it's a mindset. And, if you don't, you know, it takes just as long to do it right as it is to do it wrong. So just do it right the first time. So that's, kind of one of the quotes I heard years ago, and I try to live by that. So, in everything, you know, if I'm filling up my bag here, I got a bag.

Barry I mean, I mean, I could throw it in there, but throw it in there, organize it, zip it up. It took me an extra 15 seconds to do it right instead of just laying it in there, 'cause I wouldn't have to go back and fix it again. [00:20:00] So I think that's one of the mindsets I have when I do things. And my wife is like that.

Barry So she is a, a good influence when it comes to those things too. you know, she does things right, so I tend to try to follow along with her too.

Hector I think it's a habit, right? It's a yes. Because I see my, son and, you know. He's got his backpack and he's seven, he's in second grade.

Hector So it's like, I remember what I was like in second grade, I did the same thing and I just shoved stuff in my backpack and like, you know, not zip it up. And I'm like, Hey, like take. Time take the time to do it. And I, and of course there's no blame and I, I wish that someone would have instilled that habit in me earlier, because where I am and where I would've could have been, you know, is, light years apart.

Hector And, like you said, it's a difference of 15 seconds at a time. Yes. You know, it really comes down to that much.

Barry And again, it's a habit. It becomes a habit and you don't, veer off the path very often and you [00:21:00] do it in every little thing and it just makes you a better, better person, more productive.

Barry And, the world seems to be right when you're doing those things to me.

Hector Yeah, and I think it goes back to, you know, what started this conversation and I think what so much of this show has, become about, which is sort of identity, that if you can act in alignment and you see yourself as a guy who takes the time, who is prepared, who you know.

Hector for me it was, I recently saw that some people, they can never leave dishes in their sink. Like that's their form of excellence. And like, for me, being like a single dad, I'm like, there are many nights where our, our dishes are, you know, where the, the sink is, far from that. And I'm like, is that an area where I'm sort of.

Hector Lacking excellence or can I, work towards excellence in that area? And so the last few, like small things like that I think can really make a big difference. 'cause it's, you know, it's the shifting in identity. Like, this is the way, this is how we do things, this is how I do things, regardless of circumstances or feelings [00:22:00] or emotions.

Hector And, and, that's, that's been a, an ongoing challenge for me. One of the things that I'm curious about, you know, you mentioned having, you know, coaching young men for, I mean, almost a half decade now, right? Almost, you know, almost you said over since the eight, over four years. Well,

Barry well, I played, so my coaching, I coached nearly 40 years.

Hector So 38

Barry years, 38 years.

Hector what I think is incredible about that is definitely the, the longevity and the consistency, you know? and also you probably saw. You had a great cross-section or, sample size, if you will, a data set of young men, you know, sort of growing up. And I'm curious, my question is, over that time are there things that you saw that sort of stayed the same between young men, you know, in the eighties and nineties that were coming up and then young men that were, you know, in the.

Hector 2010s and 2020s. and is there anything that's different between those groups?

Barry That's a

Hector good

Barry question. [00:23:00] Well, there's obviously outliers on both ends. There's extremes, you know, there's the kid who does everything right. I mean, he's there, you know, I have many of 'em, you know, and he's there every day. He works hard.

Barry He does things on his own. He does extra work. He's great in the classroom. he's very respectful to his parents. He's respectful to be, he's a great teammate. And then there's the absolute opposite of that. but the majority of it, you know, I think people, they want organization, they want it to be organized.

Barry They want you to care about them. They want you to care about what we're doing. And I think they want you to be disciplined them. And that's a bad word, I guess, but like. stay on top of them. But be fair, and I think that's been consistent through all my 38 years, they want structure, they wanna be coached, they wanna be led fairly, and they want you to care about what you know, care about them, and care about the program and [00:24:00] care.

Barry And you do that by exhibiting certain things in acts and you talk to 'em. You listen to 'em, and that type of thing. The thing that's the big difference. kids are Kids are more singular. Like they play baseball and that's what they do.

Barry They don't do anything else really. that's all they do. Travel ball, parents, you know, you know, they want a scholarship. and go back to 1990. I mean, kids played every three sports. You know, they didn't, play on the eight U travel team when they were eight years old.

Barry they put the golf down in the summer and picked up the football and put the football down, picked up the basketball or hockey puck or whatever they wanted to do. And, and then the other thing is, I think just overall, they're just not as tough. You know, they spend a lot of time on the computer.

Barry They spend a lot of time playing video games. know, when I first started coaching, there were no cell phones there was no Microsoft. I mean, you had to play, you had to go out. And it took a while for that to transition. But [00:25:00] kids were tougher, a little tougher, a little more resilient, able to handle, hard coaching.

Barry You know, I can't coach like I used to. Not that I want to, but I can't, it's just not gonna be effective. Now, it was a little more effective in 1992 and 93, when you have that, authoritative style. that's one of the big differences is the, I wouldn't call 'em soft 'cause there's a lot of tough kids out there, but you handle 'em different now.

Barry think about parents today. When did they grow up? I grew up in the seventies. I mean, we were outside. I mean, we're drinking water out of a hose, you know what I mean? We're Mom said, listen, I'll see you tonight. And I'd get on my bike and ride all over town.

Barry And, and they didn't care. And not that they didn't care, but they didn't worry. Right. And you can't do that today. Kids are, it's not their fault, it's just the way they're brought up. I'm from the old school in the sense that I didn't have a lot growing up.

Barry Not that it wasn't poor, I just, we just didn't, you know, there was [00:26:00] no, what video game do we play in 1970? You know, the Atari, you know, with the thing, the ping pong thing back and forth, you know, whatever. I mean, just different in that sense. that's a long answer to a question. I probably could have made it a lot shorter.

Barry I apologize.

Hector No, that it was some great insights in it. It reminds me of, you know, I have a 7-year-old and he's, he found the Nintendo and it's like, it's the first time that he had like a tablet before and, and, but it was the first time that I saw him sort of go down this, binge rabbit hole where he, like, was all consuming him.

Hector And again, I remember those moments as well, but it made me, he's going through this game. He's like dealing with, with frustrations and I'm, trying to make it sort of a, learning experience, right? Where oh, you know, you're dealing with challenge and, you know, this is, it's frustrating. And also it is the, the least physically demanding, like the least, like actually strenuous thing he's doing.

Hector And I, I think back to. [00:27:00] You know, I wasn't seven, but I think back to times where I had coaches and they were running us and we were a little bit older than seven, but like, I was puking, that was when we would stop is when the first guy would puke.

Hector And so, and I think back to those times, and there's been moments in my life where I was like, if I can get through that. I can get through this, it builds up a level of resiliency that, I don't know, how else to, build that. you know, like, I don't know that that's necessarily the best way to do it and without experiences, informative, experiences that really challenge someone mentally is great.

Hector But I think there's something about. putting an individual in a physical level of, of stress that is formative. And so, the kids today are sort of missing out in a way, maybe in the short term they're gaining, but in the long term, I can't imagine them being as resilient, in the typical fashion as someone who's, who's gone through other experiences

Barry and, and you have to intentionally and deliberately set up your day and [00:28:00] set up the way you handle him or her, you know, so they don't.

Barry Well, you know, so and so my friend, his parents do this for him. Well, you're not him. Okay. One of the things I would say, if your kid's playing sport, make him carry his bags. Make him carry his bags. I see kids coming and mom's carrying everything that dad's carrying.

Barry Everything. Make him carry, you know, another thing that, it always bothered me. That we'd be playing in the game and then the parents would come around and give them a sandwich or give them something to eat. Like between, hack it in the morning, put it in your bag, you know, your parents giving you Gatorades just to me.

Barry I mean, that doesn't, I want you to fend for yourself, you know, I want you to do things yourself and we'll help you, I wanna make it tough for you, I don't know if my parents did that for me at all. You know, I, I am, probably a little insecure in a lot of ways 'cause of, like you said earlier, if I wasn't good at something, I wouldn't [00:29:00] do it.

Barry I'm still kind of that way and it's, not right. I, I wish I wouldn't feel that way. Like, there's certain things I know I'm not good at, so I just avoid going or I go avoid doing it. and I think that comes from, not trying a lot of things, not feeling good like it's school like when you're in school.

Barry And teacher asks a question and you don't know the answer, and she calls on you, and then you give an answer and it's wrong. And everybody laughs. Well, you just shut down from that point. Right. it's not safe. and I think you wanna create an environment. I mean, as a parent, I would want to create an environment for the kid that he has challenges and we're gonna make it difficult, but we're not gonna punish him, but we're gonna make him do certain things.

Barry It's hard. We have a little nephew, he's two and a half, and my wife, she's like, he was like, can I have my water? She's like, no, come over here and get it yourself. you know, I know that's a simple thing, but you take that and compound it over years, it adds up to something where [00:30:00] you're not gonna want to do something.

Barry You're gonna expect somebody to do it for you, and they're not gonna do it. And then you're gonna be behind and here we go.

Hector Yeah, I was talking with a mom recently and they were, she was kind of commiserating about this other kid and how the other kid was acting, and it was just totally out of control.

Hector Rude, mean, bully, you know, just, and I was thinking like, oh, that kid's parents must be assholes. Like they're probably just jerks checked out, you know, that sort of thing. What was interesting is that it was actually sort of the opposite. It was the mom that was coddling the mom that was, you know, the kid could do no wrong.

Hector It was sort of this, it was very emblematic of this gentle parenting sort of philosophy. And the interesting thing is that that made the kid an asshole too. So like, on the polls, whether the, if the parents are assholes or if they're totally, you know, have no backbone, the kid still ends up being a little, you know, right.

Hector A little shit. and so I guess my, I asked about the kids, [00:31:00] previously, over the years, what have you seen from the parents and the way that they've evolved over those years and, and maybe even, you know, how that's tends to impact or affect the kids?

Barry in college, we recruit players.

Barry I mean, we meet with the parents and the, and the kids. So we get a real good chance to get a feel. for what? You know, I'm getting myself into, if we like the kid now, we don't ever bring anybody on campus that we didn't think could play for. So, we've had, for long and short, we've had people come on campus that weren't good enough and it's just a tough, tough day.

Barry 'cause you know, you're not gonna recruit them. they come on their own. But if, the parents that I've had when I get to this meeting and now I got a picture, now it's me. Then there's across from the, there's the player and the parents are standing, sitting around, and if the parents do all of the talking, that's a red flag.

Hector I want the kid, their [00:32:00] son,

Barry to be talking to me, and I don't want him to look at his dad or mom for the answer. that's a red flag if you have that. I'm gonna be as honest and as authentic in every aspect. I'm telling you exactly what we're gonna do, exactly how we're gonna run it, and this is what our expectations are.

Barry And I had a parent one time ask me, what do you do about the parents? I said, well, I really don't deal with the parents, on the baseball side. I mean, we'll do, if you, you know, you're struggling in school or. or if you, there's a discipline, there's an issue where you've, you know, broke a rule or whatever.

Barry the dad goes, good. ' I never heard from that father for four years. He may have said 15 words to me. may have said more, but there was never, a confrontation, he just let the kid play. my best teams had the best parents.

Barry They let 'em play, they let me coach. and for the most [00:33:00] part, we brought in pretty good people and I cared about it. So I didn't have as many problems. I did have a problem with a few when I was younger that I would've been able to handle at 55 years old. That I didn't do a very good job at 35

Hector there other either habits, beliefs, you know, pH like ways of thinking? That made that, relationship for everybody or that whole experience go better for everyone?

Barry Well, I think they, they trusted me, for the, for the better part of the, four years that they were there, or three years. I think the way the kid is brought up, the way he's been from a little kid all, I mean from his formative years, all the way through the discipline that they show.

Barry there's nobody the same, it's everybody's a little different because I've had kids strike out and be walking back in the dugout and look up in the stands at their dad because, you know, his swing wasn't good or his dad's telling him something [00:34:00] about where his hand, you know, so there was that.

Barry And the kid never, ever got to be as good as he could have been because there were, you know, there's a circle. we have a team and there's a circle, And when you start getting inside that circle, parents, your buddies, then it's negative. about the team, about the coach, about the playing time.

Barry That's just gonna break the team down. So we would make a point, we'd draw a big circle on the board and say, okay, look. These are all the factors on the outside, your parents, the media a little bit, not much. But now with social media, yes. Your buddies, you know, all these people on the outside, you need to keep 'em outside.

Barry You just need to keep 'em away because that's a, a negative. The best parents stayed out from what I could tell, stayed outta my way. And if there was an issue with black playing time, I told the young man, do not have your parents call me. Do not [00:35:00] you deal with me and then we'll talk about it.

Barry And, we had a lot of conversations over the years. 'cause everybody thinks they should be playing more. that's the challenge of a coach. And it's a tough part, especially at the levels that I coached at where the parents were involved with fundraising. I can tell you right now, there's no parent talking to a Power Four athlete's coach.

Barry There's nobody at Ole Miss calling Lane Kiffin to, be mad at him 'cause he's going to LSUI guarantee you that. Nobody ever said anything to Mike Chesky. No parent ever said anything to him, but at my level we had interaction because we needed the parents to help raise money. You know, 'cause we needed that.

Barry So. So I try to keep my distance, but the best parents were the ones that I thought they raised their kids to be respectful, hardworking. And, I enjoyed coaching those kids and that had those parents. And at the end of the four years, I would make sure the parents knew what I thought of their young man.

Hector one of the things, and I, think they did it in, great and full intention. You know, [00:36:00] their intentions were great. But I had, my parents were very much, you know, you've gotta play sports. You're gonna, I think my dad, you know, basically was, living vicariously through my little leagues and, and sports and, you know, he never got to, I was told often I, he never got to, to do any of these things.

Hector So it was sort of my, duty to be the MVP of the team. Right. And I think that as much value and as much as the pushing sort of, there was a benefit there. at the highest levels. I don't think that I was, I was driven, you know, self-driven to excel because part of it didn't feel like it was for me necessarily.

Hector And it took me, you know, getting older and sort of maturing to realize, what sort of things I really wanted to pursue in life. And I would imagine that there's probably less of that today with parents, but I still see it. I still see it sometimes where they're, they're sort of trying to live through their kids and I can't imagine that, ending up Well, and,

Barry no, it does, it,

Barry it can't.

Barry I'll tell you this story. I, quit playing high [00:37:00] school football after my sophomore year.

Barry and, my dad was really upset, but he never told me that my mom did. She said, you know, and then she told me years later, she said he was really upset that you didn't go back out and play. Now I played baseball, so I, that's what I wanted to focus on.

Barry but he never pushed me. Never. Nope. No, never. Matter of fact, my first tryout for Little League, I told him I didn't want to try out, but he, he knew I wanted to play. So we drove to the little lake field and I had my glove and I mean, I'm seven or eight, I'm eight years old and I'm sitting in the truck now.

Barry The kids are out playing and he didn't say anything. He didn't say, you gotta go, you make me go. He just drove me there and, I can see it right now. It's cloudy day. After about, I don't know how many minutes, five, maybe 10. I could see him out there playing. I wanted to play, I wanna try out. So I tried out, you know, but he never, never pushed me. [00:38:00] He never did. and if he was upset, he never showed it. And I think that's important. I think that's important, you know, 'cause I think you, you know, say, okay, well what do you wanna do? What do you wanna be really, really, really good at, like, really good at?

Barry And whatever that is. Let's do it. You know, if you're not sure, okay, try a lot of things you'll know. But I'll tell you this, I knew I wanted to coach when I was in college. Once I decided I wanted to be a division one college, head baseball coach, every single decision I made from that point forward was geared to, put me on that path to do it.

Barry You know, there was other things going on, but you know, in terms of what my goals were, I knew what I wanted to do. I didn't waiver. So that was one of the things I think helped me. I made my mind up. Nobody else did. My parents didn't. They just, they supported it and, were happy for me and I guess, But that was, it didn't matter what they thought I was gonna do, that, that's what I wanted to do. And I did

Hector well, and you did it for [00:39:00] 38 years. so congratulations on that. And, and, you know, you have this new, journey and, what was the purpose for writing the book and why did you choose to write the, the sort of book that you'd end up writing?

Barry Well, initially I knew I was going to get outta coaching and I wanted to be a speaker. I wanted to be someone that could get up in front of groups and help them and tell 'em about how to be.

Barry Excellent. How to be great, how to transform their, program, how to transform their, team, their organization, whatever. It's, so before this, just going back a few years, I started working on my PhD. So that was all geared towards learning what it took to transform teams. on the research level deeper, not just what we read on the newspaper or watch on ESPN.

Barry Like really, really dig into what it is to be excellent. so that started the thinking, to build, this base knowledge [00:40:00] base of transformation and sustainability. And then to be able to do that, they said, well, you gotta write a book. I'm like, okay. somebody said, put your ass in the seat and start typing.

Barry you know, I started and I, you know, long and short, I wrote an outline and I, came up with a story and I thought that was the easiest way for me to get the point across through a story, an athletic story that I lived for 38 years. So it was easy. I won't say easy, but it was comfortable for me to outline this season, which is a story about a women's basketball program, a struggling women's basketball program.

Barry You know, the season that they have and all of the things that come along the path, the challenges, the failures, the good days, the bad days, the wins, the losses, the hard practices, the bad practices, the injuries, all that. So I've already experienced, I say [00:41:00] already I had 35, 38 years to that and then punch in the emotional aspect for me.

Barry and I feel like emotional intelligence is the tipping point, Darren Blood is the coach's name. Is a hard nosed, highly tempered, volatile coach who fails and is get blackballed. And he's saved by his friend who is the president of a university.

Barry And he says, look, you can coach, but we've gotta work on those emotional skills. We've gotta get you better at having better people skills, you know, controlling your emotions, being interested in other people, not just yourself. Providing an environment where people can succeed in. So that's the story and that's essentially my story as a coach.

Barry At the end of my career, I was controlling my emotions much better. I was more interested in the people. I mean, I was always interested, but I mean, this was [00:42:00] intentional. I made it an intentionality. I was intentional and deliberate to do it. And then I tried to create a practice or, or a classroom or wherever we were, where kids, the players, the people could talk and, and freely speak in front of everyone and give their opinions without being criticized.

Barry and then, and just made, made it fun. because I don't think I did that in 1995 and I didn't do it in 2005. I wasn't as interested in people. I didn't provide a safe environment and I certainly didn't control my emotions, you know, so those are the three things, and that, this coach through this story is learning and he is being mentored by a boss that everyone would wanna work for,

Hector And where, book's at now, if I'm not mistaken. where can people go and, and where's the best place to follow up with you and find all that info?

Barry The best place is to go to Amazon and the, the title of the book is Old Dog New Tricks, the Power of Leading With [00:43:00] Emotional Intelligence.

Barry you could type in, uh, Barry Davis and, it should pop up and you can get it for 1499. The, the kind is 9 99 and I'm actually gonna have an audio book coming out soon.

Barry And then you can go to my website and, you can also, you know, get more information on me and working with me can get on my email list, which is Dr. Barry davis.com. You get a weekly email that's leadership, you know, team building, culture coaching, emotional intelligence, you know, something different every week that you can take with you and, make you a little better.