The 3 Men Every Guy Needs (But Most Don't Have) with Larry Pruett

[00:00:00] If you're married or if you're in a relationship, ask questions, use words, and just try to communicate that. I really do want to understand you.

Hector Larry, welcome to the Modern Masculinity Pod. Thanks for being here.

Hector thank you so much for having me. I appreciate the opportunity here.

Hector I ask all of our guests to sort of take us into their world and, share some of the, challenges, the, the onus, the load that they're bearing. because a lot of podcasts, you know, they talk about all of the accolades and all the achievements, and of course those are great.

Hector I find that, one of the quickest ways to relate to somebody is, is sort of through misery. Um, but what are you still dealing with as a man, as a, husband, as a provider or a business owner? You know, you wear all these sort of hats. What sort of things do you still find yourself working?

Hector first of all, I

Larry love that question because you're right. I mean, that's, that's reality, right? And, and the other day I was listening to a podcast. I was kind of relating to the content of what the host was talking about. And then she said something about the struggle of getting [00:01:00] from a seven figure business to an eight figure business.

Larry And I just went, okay, you're in a different stratosphere of where I'm at. You know? And I was thinking, what about the people who are going from a three figure business to a four figure and five and six, and then beyond, you know? But, so. My backstory is that my wife and I, we've been married for 36 years, so I'm old.

Larry I've gone through an awful lot. We've been entrepreneurs for 21 years. the last almost 13 years have been full-time with that, but we are kind of starting over again now. We've been in the e-commerce space. We, we did scale that to high six figures and enjoyed that for a season. Then things changed the last two or three years with the economy and you know, blah, blah, blah, all of that.

Larry And so we now feel a calling to go into, coaching other couples. We've done a lot of e-commerce coaching, my wife and I have, but now we are coaching, married couples primarily and married entrepreneurs primarily. But [00:02:00] we're kind of expanding beyond that a little bit because I do have a strong desire to help men who are younger than me to come along.

Larry To understand how to just live life and to do it in a way where you'll end up without regrets. We're all gonna have some regrets, but you know what I'm saying? To minimize those regrets.

Hector Yeah. I wonder if in in generations past that sort of, you know, mentor relationship, it was, was more, I dunno if available is the right word, but it just, it seems like there like so many of my.

Hector friends that I have my age, they don't have that, that older guy that's been around the block a couple times that they can come and talk to about life and, you know, and, and share. And I, I've been fortunate to have a number of those men in my life, it, but it was it was intentional.

Hector It wasn't on accident. And it was because I realized that I did not have that. And, and I love my dad. he did his best and he did the best that he could, knowing what he did. [00:03:00] And also there was not much advice that he gave to me. You know, we never had a talk about. What am I gonna do with my life?

Hector You know, after he realized that I wasn't really gonna make it in sports, it was like, nah, alright, well you're sort of on your own. You know, that was his path that he had for me and, and that didn't pan out. And, I wonder if, there was some lingering trauma there or whatever.

Hector And, and he course, he, his relationship with his dad was, was really challenging. and so for me, I, I sort of. I realized that there was a need for that, masculine leadership. Yeah. And, it makes me wonder, it makes me think that a lot of guys, you know, in their twenties and their thirties probably don't have that, you know, that wise man that they can reach out to and be vulnerable with and talk to or, or whatever about whatever.

Larry yeah, absolutely. I think that in the past, in the recent past even there's was a structure set up to where just people were more involved in other people's lives. And I, I mean that in a good way. We think of that [00:04:00] today as being people, being nosy.

Larry Used to be a, a day where you could just show up at somebody's house and knock on the door and go in. And now if that happened, people would be calling 9 1 1 and everything. So, uh, so things have changed a lot in our society and some of it's for the better and some of it's not. but as a, I'm a Christian and so I go back to biblical truths and that's just kind of who I am.

Larry It's how I live. And, and whenever you look back to that ancient biblical wisdom, there's just a lot of instruction that the older generation is to be. Building into the younger generation's lives and that the younger generation is to listen and pay attention and respect their elders. And just unfortunately that has broken down, over the generations.

Larry There's always been, I'm sure that there's always been that whole thing about, you know, my dad doesn't know as much as what he thinks he does. And then, then you start turning 25 and 30 and your dad starts getting really, really smart. Right. I kinda had the same, I've got a great relationship with my dad.

Larry He's 90 years [00:05:00] old and he still is doing fantastic and I still call him for advice and such, but I had kind of a similar type of experience that you did in that he taught me a certain number of things and at some point he just thought that's all I got as far as career options and, and things like that and advice in that regard.

Larry And so I did reach out to other older men in my church. just to spend some time and to kind of soak in some of that wisdom. How do you navigate this area of life? Because, you know, when you're getting married, , most time whenever you're getting married, you go through premarital counseling and then you get married and everybody just says, good luck.

Larry You know, there's no postmarital counseling unless you seek it out and you start paying a lot of money for that. when you have kids, there's no instruction booklet that comes with it. in my, stage of life now where I am, just about to the empty nesting stage. It's like, what is going on right now?

Larry Everything is upside down for me and I'm [00:06:00] still seeking out older men and just saying, how did you navigate that? How do I handle this situation? It's like everything is brand new with my wife now. so every stage of life has challenges and struggles, and there are people who have gone beyond us And have navigated that. And so we need to glean the wisdom from them and then we need to pay that forward, so to speak, and then be looking out for people who are a step or two behind us and help bring them along to where we are. Yeah, I

Hector remember there was this first, experience and it was probably about fifth, sixth grade where my mom was like.

Hector I don't know how to help you with your homework anymore. like, what you said, you're sort of beyond, this is all I got. And so it, it made me, you know, at that point I was like, all right, I've gotta figure this out on my own, which is sort of to my detriment.

Hector 'cause she probably should have said, let me, let me connect you with somebody who does know, you know, who can help. And I remember in my teens and twenties thinking like, these old fuddy duddies [00:07:00] don't know what it's like. They don't know. They don't know. And, also. I think there is a little bit of truth to that because if we think about, you know, the difference in lifestyle or, what life was like for me versus my grandpa, and we go, great-grand.

Hector We go one more generation. I mean, you know, the difference between the 19 hundreds and the two thousands are totally different worlds in terms of technology and, the sociological sort of move. Like everything that's sort of happening. And as I'm getting older, I'm realizing that. It's also the exact same too.

Hector Relationships, you know, have, and marriage is still marriage, you know, parenting is still parenting. And so, although on the outside things look and appear to be different, I think that they're not actually that different, you know, there, there's so much wisdom that can be taken from those previous generations and I was sort of.

Hector avoiding it, or I was sort of blind to it. 'cause I was going, they don't know how to use a cell phone. They don't know how to use a a, you know, they don't know how to type on a keyboard. [00:08:00] They don't know how to, you know, they don't know the internet. and that was such to my detriment, as I was, you know, becoming a man, starting a business, you know, going through my, my marriage and relationship and that sort whole thing and becoming a parent.

Hector because wish that I would've sought that help earlier.

Larry Yes, if somehow we could figure out how to infuse that into like the teenage brain so that as you know, I'm just thinking about myself as well as if as a teenager and a young, say 20 and even even into the thirties, if I would've just been paying much more attention to what are other people doing that is making them successful.

Larry One of the exercises that we do with, with clients is we say, just start thinking about some people that you really admire. They could be famous people, or it could be somebody that nobody's ever heard of, but you just, you see them around town or at church or whatever, and you, you admire that, that person or that couple.

Larry You have great respect for them. And then, then the next step [00:09:00] is to say, what is it about that person , that I respect, what draws me to that person? Is it their consistency? Is it their faithfulness? Is it their, they're quick decision makers, you know, they have a confidence about them. And then the third step then is to say, what do I need to do to become like that?

Larry What do I need to do to become that type of person that other people would look to me with, with respect? And so that is just a tough thing to, to have a young person understand. To some extent, we do have to experience things. We have to go through our own failures. We have to make our own mistakes and such.

Larry but just to your point about everything changes, but everything stays the same. I really believe that as true. Yes, the technology is different and social media has added just this enormous level to what young people have to deal with today. I really feel for my kids who are. who are younger and they feel this [00:10:00] pressure of always looking their best.

Larry And that's why, going back to the first question that you asked, what are you struggling with? I just think that's such an important question that we need to ask one another. And then we need to sometimes just be able to share that and, and to put it out there, make yourself a little bit more vulnerable.

Larry Be transparent is, it's just tough, especially for us as men to do that. Ladies kind of have a. Natural inclination to do those type of things and to be more open. so I think just being willing to have those conversations, to ask those tough questions of one another, and to have that accountability is very, very helpful.

Larry And then you just take those old, as I said, those ancient principles and you apply them to the modern technology, the modern world, and it, it plays out very, very well.

Hector Yeah, it seems like that it's sort of becoming a, a meme, you know, in the sense of there's the guy who on the outside looks like he has it all together.

Hector Yeah. And on the [00:11:00] inside is absolutely broken and crumbling. And, and we, we seem as men to sort of force ourselves into that, where we've gotta put on the mask, we've gotta, you know, put you, we've gotta have the shield up. because I do think that it is important for our. Family and for our kids and for the people that we, you know, are responsible and provide for, , to see that strength.

Hector I think that, you know, if your dad is always out of control, if your dad is unstable, if your dad is, doesn't have it together, I think that's, that is destabilizing. And also, I don't think that we should have to fake it. All the time, right? Or there at least should be a place where we can come down, put the shield down, take off the mask, and be real.

Hector , And I think that, especially as I've sort of gone on this journey and I think we're now a hundred and, you know, almost 150 episodes in, it's like the place for that is with another man. Someone told me that, other men are the only ones that can hold space for what.

Hector Men, you know, have, and if we, I made the mistake of dumping all that [00:12:00] stuff on my ex or, you know, taking it out on my kids and thinking that like I was being vulnerable. I'm sharing my emotions and, and yes, I was, but I was not doing it in a productive or a healthy way. I was essentially just dumping all of my trauma, all of my emotions onto them and hoping and expecting that they can deal with it.

Hector When I'm like, man, as I sort of reflect on it, I'm like, that is a lot to bear. That is a heavy load to bear and. and that's why having other older men who can carry that load or know, you know, know what that sort of load is like, is important to have around.

Larry you know, there's a balancing act in here somewhere because it is definitely a good thing to be open and vulnerable with your spouse and with your children as well to help them to see the struggles and such, but.

Larry there's definitely a line that you don't wanna cross to where your kids are now bearing this weight that they really have no influence in. They have no way of fixing it. if it's a financial issue or some other sort of [00:13:00] a struggle, the kid's just like, what am I supposed to do to help out here?

Larry You know, here's my 47 cents I had in my piggy bank. You know? so to allow them to, to see how you work through things. Is more important than for them to see exactly what it is that you're struggling with. so, yes, I think that a husband and wife need to communicate about challenges. one of our big things that we, we talk about with this, we have our business is called side by side business.

Larry And so we talk about a husband and wife being side by side attacking problems and challenges together as opposed to face-to-face where they're arguing about these problems and challenges. And so there's definitely a place for all of that. But I do think the missing piece that the, just the large majority of men have is other men that they can go to.

Larry It could be a group setting. It's much more effective, I think, on a one-on-one. So it doesn't take like a, a large crowd to do this. This [00:14:00] can be something where literally you, as a younger man, if you see one older gentleman that you really respect. You see that he's living a life that you would like to be living in 20, 30 years, whatever, that would be a great opportunity to approach somebody and just say, Hey, can we just grab coffee?

Larry You know, you don't have to be too weird about it and say, I want to share my deepest, intimate feelings and thoughts with you and such, but 'cause that will come over time. But it's just a relationship, that can be formed. And as as an older man now myself, if a younger guy came to me and said that.

Larry that would be a huge honor to me. And I would, be happy to jump on that and to do that. And, and again, even at my age, I'm looking for older men. there's kind of a sliding scale and I guess, you know, my dad's now 90, so it's harder for him to find older guys really. , But he was telling me just, just not long ago, he said, I really miss being able to call my dad.

Larry and to be able to get that advice and counsel and such, so he has peers. [00:15:00] But it's a little bit harder for him to find older men right now. But basically throughout your lifetime, there's going to be the time where you need people who are around your same age, who are just friends, people who are maybe not overly impressed with you, if you kinda understand what I'm saying.

Larry , They're willing to see those flaws and to be direct and to help you with that. and so you need that peer, somebody who's probably close to your same age. You need that mentor that you can take that advice from and have him build into your life. And then you need to be looking for somebody who's younger than you that you can be building into as well.

Larry So you've got ¡ Those three steps, three stages of, friends and mentors and, people that you form relationship with. It could be, like I said, it can be three guys, or it could be a lot bigger of a crowd if it does become like a group type of a setting.

Hector Yeah, I've heard, you know, that being one of the major benefits of martial arts is that sort of everybody's at a, a [00:16:00] different stage and you know, when you're starting out, whether you are, you know, you're well experienced or even an expert, there's oftentimes someone ahead of you, there's someone right at your level and someone that's more of a beginner stage.

Hector And that the three of those in tandem really allow someone to grow at a. At a consistent rate, at an accelerator rate. 'cause I think when you don't have one of those, you can get stuck at a plateau thinking that you're all high and mighty. Or that you don't have anything to offer or, you know, forgetting that, for me, I, I fall into sort of the curse of knowledge, quite often, which is, you know, I, I forget what it was like to be new or I forget what it was like, you know just assume that everybody has the knowledge and experience that I have and that, that, sort of common sense when, you know, oftentimes it's the furthest from it.

Hector I'm curious for you, you know, we talked about this, How everything stays the same and things sort of change everything's changes and everything stays the same as things the way you put it, greatly. when you look at relationships and the [00:17:00] people that you're working with, what are sort of the common themes or issues or challenges?

Hector what sort of things are you seeing in all the people that you're working with?

Larry Miscommunication in relationships is just, we all deal with it at some level. And if you get into the science of it, which I really don't want to, but, but you can research this, you can just see that the male brain thinks very, very differently, processes, information very differently than the female brain.

Larry And so whenever you get into this relationship¡ I don't wanna say you're at a disadvantage to start with. But you've got this, complication that just naturally comes into the relationship. And so that's another reason, by the way, where it's really important for you to be communicating with other men because you, you have that in common.

Larry You kind of understand each other at that fundamental level. and in the Bible, it talks about that a husband is to live with his wife in an understanding way. And that seems like God is playing a joke on us guys. It's like God is [00:18:00] saying, I'm gonna make you two completely different in the way that you think and process and handle things and emotionally and physically and all these things.

Larry And then I'm gonna tell you guys in particular, you need to understand her. And so it's not something that happens easily. It's not something that happens overnight. It's actually a lifelong pursuit. But we see this in almost every couple that we work with is. The husband will say, I said such and such, and she flew off the handle and then we'll get her perspective.

Larry And she said, he said, and her understanding of what he was trying to communicate was totally different than what was coming out of his mouth. We work with them at a foundational level to start understanding. Their perspective and where they're coming from.

Larry And then you add to that. So you've got that, that fundamental how he thinks, how she thinks. And then you add to that the different personality types you add to that, the different experiences and backgrounds and [00:19:00] maybe trauma that they've experienced in the past. And then you add other factors like love languages, that is really common, for people to study that.

Larry But. So many times we see couples, they just take one thing, like, this is my love language and I want my spouse to speak this. It's like, okay, that's fine. We can start there. But there's so many layers to all this. And so that all leads to that overall problem that we see of a communication challenge. whenever a couple's not communicating well, then it affects the connection that they have.

Larry when you're not connecting as a couple, then it's really difficult to do just about anything else. And we, again, we work with a lot of entrepreneurs, so if they're not connecting in their home, then for them to build a business can be a real challenge. Or many times what guys end up doing is they just say, okay, I'm going all into my business on my career, and my home life is just gonna suffer.

Larry And so we just work with [00:20:00] couples to help them to balance all of that out. Be successful in the job Absolutely. but be successful at home as well.

Hector Yeah. I recently pulled outta my closet, a book that I wish I would've, read more and maybe my marriage would've ended up in a different way. But it's the, it's called The Relationship Cure by John Gottman and, Dr.

Hector John. And he talks about one of the, the big themes of that is this, They talk about bids for attention and bids for or whatever, but it's these small little notice me things. Like it's, it's just, Hey, I want your attention, I want your love, I want your whatever. But it's not a direct

Hector And it usually is. At least from the book seems like, you know, women usually are less direct about those things because of everything that you talked about. And there's sort of an understanding that they, that we should interpret these things as such.

Hector And the challenge is if we're not looking for them, we don't recognize. We [00:21:00] don't recognize those things. You know, we don't recognize the, Hey, do you wanna go, you know, do this, or Hey, do you wanna, you know, these small, little subtle things is actually an opportunity to create that connection. And there's a sort of this classic, you know, meme or, or thing that goes around of like, you know, why won't she just tell me what she wants?

Hector Right? Like, why, why, can't she just say that? And it's a big frustration that guys have that. is I think, pretty common, but sort of points to what you're speaking about and just that we are wired differently because it seems like she does think she's telling you what she wants. You're just not listening or perhaps you're not, we're not looking in the right way.

Hector We're not interpreting it in the right way. We're not seeing, we don't have the, you know, the lens on that shows us, oh, this is actually, she's saying this, but what she's actually. Meaning or saying or doing is, is this? And, I think that could be a, a hard, chasm to cross for a lot of guys.

Larry Absolutely. And this is not easy. [00:22:00] That is for sure. And this is again, where an older man can really help the younger guys. To say like, okay, again, not, I'm not wanting to say that all women are exactly the same in no way, shape, or form, but there are definitely some similarities. And so an older, older guy who's been married for 36 years like me, could talk to a younger guy and say like, it's likely that she means this when she says that.

Larry But the number one key that we talk with couples, and I in particular will talk to guys about is just say, ask her. Use your words and ask her. Now, sometimes again, like you said, there's the whole thing about the woman is just like, I want him to figure this out on his own. And in some ways that's just unfair.

Larry And so at some level as a man, I would go to my wife and just say. I really want to demonstrate the love that I have for you in a way that you receive that. So, can you just help [00:23:00] me out here a little bit? Can you share with me when you say this, what is it that you actually mean? Can you connect these dots?

Larry one of the things, as I referenced how a man's brain works versus a woman's brain, we like to use the analogy of a, of a house. And so a man's brain. Has all these different rooms, and when he's in each of these different rooms, there's a huge soundproof door that he closes behind him. So when he's working, he is in that space and he can just, filter out everything else.

Larry And if something's happened in the next room, he doesn't know about it. He doesn't care about it. Whenever work is done, and again, sometimes this isn't a perfect analogy, but in general this is how things work. And then when he leaves that room that he goes to the next room and that room may be, the fun room.

Larry You know, we're gonna go on a date night, we're gonna whatever. You know, it could be another room that's a [00:24:00] sports room. Could be actually men have a room that is a nothing room where you can actually kind of turn your brain off. That is most guys, that's the favorite room because there's no stress in there.

Larry unfortunately things do have a tendency to bleed into there, but in a lady's like in the landscape of her house, everything is connected. It's like an open floor plan. And my wife kind of explains it. Like if she is in one room, you know, maybe she's watching a movie and having fun, but the kids are in a different room and they're arguing.

Larry And I'm just oblivious to it. I didn't even hear it. And she's just like, I can't concentrate on the movie. It's no fun because something's going with the kids. I need to go take care of them. And and even if she said she can hear the dishes calling out to her, like the dishes that are sitting in the sink that need to get done.

Larry And I'm like, ah, come on. We'll get to that later. And so there's this complete disconnect that can happen. I'll just tell a quick story here the other day. we had gotten home from church. It was kind of late, it was probably eight o'clock [00:25:00] at night. We had not eaten supper yet. And kind of a staple in our home is baked potatoes.

Larry And so I just said to my wife, you want me to put some baked potatoes in the Instapot? They'll be ready in half an hour or whatever. And she said, well, I guess, but I was just looking at the wedding pictures from our daughter's wedding recently, and I kind of just stopped and I'm like. What do pictures have to do with potatoes right now?

Larry And we kind of stood there and it felt like, it felt like 10 minutes to me. She's telling me it was like 10 seconds, but I'm like, what has just happened? Did I miss something? Did I miss some cue? You know, did I miss an anniversary? You know, all of those things was going through my head. And I'm like, I'm just like, I got these big eyes.

Larry And she kind of turned around and she realized what happened. She started laughing. She said, I looked at those pictures and I did not like how I looked, and I just don't know if I should eat something this late at night because I'm afraid it's just gonna make me fat. So we [00:26:00] had a good laugh over that.

Larry but that disconnect that happened there very briefly, and she was, Kind enough to fill in, you know, to connect the dots for me, because otherwise I was just completely lost as to , what those things had to do with each other. so again, I would just say to any of the guys out there, if you're married or if you're in a relationship, ask questions, use words, and just try to communicate that.

Larry I really do want to understand you. I do want to communicate with you in a way that is, received well. I want to understand what you're saying whenever you say certain things. So, you know, it's kind of like, can we not play the games? Can we not play the game of, let's see if he can understand me today, because that's not really beneficial for anybody.

Larry And, you know, hopefully that will be received. Well, if it's not, there's some extra steps you can probably take. But, most of the time I think the ladies are gonna say, yeah, I do want you to understand me so I [00:27:00] can connect those dots for you.

Hector I'm glad you said that. 'cause I, there was a, a, a thread on X, which went, sort of went viral because.

Hector There were so many women, and of course it's the internet and it's, it's not a, an accurate representation of really anything. 'cause it's just the people who decided to engage with this. And so, you know, indexes over that. But there were so many women who were just saying, no, I want him to figure it out.

Hector Like that is, that is the part. and to which so many of the guys were going, like, do you see the problem here? Like, you know, there's a, I think it does require. Two, it requires a mutual understanding. And, one of the things that I really struggled with in, in my relationship and, and really in even outside of it, is just the need to want to fix, you know, it was in my relationship before, and then it was also, I see it coming up in my, you know, with my kids and that, you know, she.

Hector Or the kids come in with an issue and my, I go straight to solutions and I go straight to fixing. And that's not actually what they wanted. they oftentimes wanted to be seen or heard or felt, [00:28:00] right? Yeah. And, and the challenge though, what I realized was that , I was not grounded enough.

Hector To sit in that emotion with her and not be triggered and not have a response and not get upset or angry or whatever it was. It was this, that my, my, my reaction to that emotion, which I didn't like feeling, I didn't like feeling this anger or sadness or whatever. So, so let me just jump to fixing and when I started, you know, really getting into somatic work and, and you know, really trying to, understand that part of it.

Hector things started to change. And now with my kids, you know, they, they sort of have a big blowup and, and I imagine it's a little bit different in a relationship, but you know, they have this big blowup and I'm, as opposed to reacting or even fixing, I'm sort of able to sit in there with them, help them get through it, and then they end up finding their own sort of solution or end up coming to some, some of their own conclusions, as opposed to the other way around,

Larry Yes. guys, we are fixtures. There's no doubt about it. And so it's so easy to just jump [00:29:00] into that room, of the house in your brain and just to say, I am going to work to fix this issue. and just start throwing out all kinds of solutions. And so I think that that is a huge challenge for guys. Again, I think that communication is so important and I do.

Larry Definitely recommend the direct approach anytime possible. 'cause sometimes I will just say to my wife, do you want me to throw out any solutions right now? Because a couple things have come to my mind, and a lot of times she'll just say like, no, not right now. And I'll be like, okay. And that's hard. You gotta kinda humble yourself a little bit and just say, we're gonna, as you kinda said it, we're just gonna kinda sit in this emotion for just a little bit.

Larry I don't exactly understand why we need to do that, but I'm gonna do that because that's what you need right now. there's a great video, I'm sure that people can Google this and find it. It's called, it's not about the nail, and it just kind of speaks to this. It's just a little [00:30:00] skit and it's just hilarious.

Larry Just take out the nail. You just take out the nail. Just take out the nail, and it would just fix everything like in two minutes, and I've got the ability to do it. but the wife, just as you said, she wants to be seen, she wants to be heard to some level. Understood. and because, um, I don't know, ladies feel emotions so much stronger than what we do, and they connect events to that and so many times they won't remember that you just remove the nail and fix the problem, but they.

Larry 10 minutes or 20 minutes or an hour, however long it takes that you just sat with her in that tough moment and just kind of felt that pain with her.

Hector Larry, this has been such a great conversation. I'm sad that it's flown by. We'll probably have to have you come back and, and do a round two.

Hector But, I've got two questions for you. If people wanna get more connected with you, with what you guys are doing, where's the best place for people to go and find out?

Larry So I'm on LinkedIn. I'm on Facebook. [00:31:00] our website is side-by-side business.com so they could definitely reach out there, but, that's probably the, the best and easiest way for, for people to get in contact with me.

Hector We'll link all that up in the show notes for you guys as always. And maybe there's some gals out there listening, I don't know. but, always in there, in the show notes for all the links and resources. And my last question for you, Larry, is, In your opinion, what is the definition of modern masculinity?

Larry Yeah, this definitely goes back to what we were talking about earlier. I really think the definition of modern masculinity is the same as ancient masculinity. I think it is. being, yes, tough and rough and strong and all of those type of things, but I also think that it is being present. Being at times with other guys, especially being vulnerable and open and honest.

Larry I think that a huge component of it is what we've been talking a lot about today, and that is being willing to building into other men and [00:32:00] to encourage them to challenge them, hold them accountable, and just to grow together with them.