Screen Time & Silent Threats: Why You Must Pay Attention with Kevin Cronister

[00:00:00] Hector: Fellows, what's going on? I hope this episode finds you well and, and as always, I hope this episode can leave you better than when it found you. And today's episode is, it's a little bit of a tough topic, I'll admit, but one thing I do know about this show is that it is, its intention is to have the conversations that guys need to be having that we're probably not having, and today is for sure one of them.

[00:00:56] Hector: And it's with Kevin k Chronister and he is a detective in the cyber crimes division for his, local, uh, police precinct. And he is on the, the child. Crimes task force. I mean, essentially, you know, he gets into it. He talks about how he plays, you know, a a 12-year-old girl, girl, and he's in these, you know, places and games and, and roadblocks and, and minecrafts and, and these places where these young kids are hanging out to try and protect them because unfortunately the world is changing and it's evolving and.

[00:01:31] Hector: The way that predators are taking advantage of young people these days is not the way that they were 5, 10, 15, 20 years ago. And the further you go back, the the more drastic of a change it is. And so today's conversation is necessary to, to educate you and not to be doom and gloom. Because one of the big things that Kevin talks about is the, the role that.

[00:02:00] Hector: Parents and specifically fathers can play in deterring these sorts of things from happening. So if this feels like man, a. A hard conversation or one that you're not ready for yet. I would challenge you to lean into that discomfort and see if you can get through and find the reason that you needed to listen to this.

[00:02:22] Hector: Even if you are, you feel like you're someone who is either not, not there yet, your kids are. You know, you don't have kids or your kids are too young or you think that you're past it, I, I would challenge you to listen to and see if there's something there for you, because I feel like we are just entering a whole new world and as men, as the, the leaders, the, the providers, and, and more importantly in regards to this conversation, the protectors, I think it's important for us to be informed.

[00:02:50] Hector: And so, uh, I'll leave this to again say that I, I hope that we come out of this stronger and that you are, um, you know, that there's something here, uh, to make us a little bit better. But any case, enough of me. Now let's get into today's episode with Kevin Chronister.

[00:03:08] Hector: Kevin, welcome to the Modern Masculinity Podcast, man. Thanks for being here.

[00:03:11] Kevin: Yeah, I'm excited to be here. Thank you having me on. Important topic and I to this information out there, and hopefully see fewer cases come across my.

[00:03:22] Hector: Yeah. such a heavy topic, but on top of that, especially for you, you know, you are. A dad and you are, you know, you're a father and a husband or partner or you're in it in a variety of ways. And so the question I always throw to our guests is what challenges or struggles or what sort of muck are you, still going through like today?

[00:03:44] Hector: Or, these days that you find yourself, persevering through or.

[00:03:48] Kevin: my wife and I, we have four kids, with one more. Coming. So we've got, three biological children. Our last one, Colby, was adopted and then we found out that his birth mom is pregnant again, and we want to keep the brothers together, so we're gonna adopt his little brother as well. So I've got five kiddos at home and, obviously I work a, a 50 hour a week job at the sheriff's office, investigating solid crimes.

[00:04:16] Kevin: And then I'm trying to run a business on the side and keep my marriage, strong and continue to work out. And there's just never enough time in the day, you know.

[00:04:24] Hector: Yeah, it's just like you don't, like not a lot going on for you. Sure. maybe it is relevant because I don't always get into how you got here, what was the story? Because sometimes it's relevant, sometimes it's not. but I think perhaps for you, you know, maybe that is relevant to the story.

[00:04:40] Hector: And just to give some context, because it seems like. Not only is this a job for you, but it's become really a, a passion in your platform. your mission, you know, if you use different words, but take us on your.

[00:04:56] Kevin: growing up I was always, raised to kind of stand up for or defend the most vulnerable rights. So when I was in elementary school, my mom and dad always talked to me about making sure that, I was protecting kids against the bully or I was, you know, making sure that that less fortunate people were, taken care of.

[00:05:16] Kevin: And, growing up it was just always something that, that I did as I gravitated towards positions where, I was protecting the most vulnerable. And so as I grew up, I developed an interest in law enforcement. And, I've always wanted a big family. I've always loved kids, and the idea of a position that was completely dedicated to, protecting.

[00:05:37] Kevin: You know, the most vulnerable population that we have are children. The idea of working in a position like that, it was just an instant draw for me. It felt, you know, more like a calling than a job. when I got into law enforcement, my number one goal was to get to the position I'm in right now as quickly as possible.

[00:05:55] Kevin: And so, I saw a lot when I was working patrol, I saw a lot of kids victimized, abused, both, you know, sexually and physically. I. And it just motivated me even more to get to this detective position where I could kind of intervene, and potentially, you know, save some of these kids. So, just kind of a lifelong, desire and, passion of mine.

[00:06:15] Hector: Were you already a dad before you started working in the, it's the child Crimes Division, is that what

[00:06:21] Kevin: Yes. Yeah. So, for us, it's our, cyber crimes division, but there's a subdivision that's the Internet Crimes Against Children Task Force. that's what I'm on. And, I had three kids, before I got this job. that was a huge driver too, is I saw, the trends of technology and how,

[00:06:40] Kevin: you know, how easy it was for kids to find themselves in bad situations on the internet. And as my kids were growing up, obviously as a dad, I was like, man, I gotta, I gotta do something to, to try to, to mitigate this. And so it just kinda reinforced the idea that I wanted to, to work in this role.

[00:06:59] Kevin: You know, when I had my own kids and, became a dad and, more of a protector. So.

[00:07:04] Hector: Yeah. What sort of things do you think would wake up most dads or even, you know, guys who are, are thinking about eventually one day being a dad? Is there a statistic, a story, you know, a paradigm? I think, so much of the challenge is that the previous generation was ignorant and we don't really have that as an excuse anymore.

[00:07:25] Hector: But is there something that is either surprising or, I don't know, might get guys to open their eyes a little bit.

[00:07:32] Kevin: Yeah, I mean, what we're dealing with today in terms of child sexual exploitation is an absolute epidemic. And the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children, which is the number one nonprofit, group in the country that works with law enforcement to investigate these kinds of cases.

[00:07:50] Kevin: They received 36.2 million reports of child sexual exploitation in 2023 alone. So we're talking child sex trafficking. We're talking, I. Child molestation, child abuse. We're talking, trading and downloading of, child sexual abuse material, which is commonly known as child porn. But 36.2 million reports, and that's, that's just what was reported.

[00:08:15] Hector: and playing devil's advocate for like the guys who are like, yeah, but in my day, you know, is it that, more is happening or and we're just more aware of it? Or is it both? Like how do you handle that? obviously it doesn't matter, but the guy who's going, yeah, but you know what?

[00:08:31] Hector: might you say to that?

[00:08:32] Kevin: Well, I can tell you that the number of tips and reports that have gone into ncmec, since 2020 have almost doubled every single year. So it's absolutely happening more often. And I think people are getting a little bit. More savvy to it and a little bit more, emboldened to, to report it. But the numbers are increasing, there's no doubt about that.

[00:08:53] Kevin: And technology as technology evolves, you know, even kids 10 years ago, didn't have the access to the internet that they have to today. And so. our parents didn't have the internet at all, right? We had it a little bit. But now kids have access to the internet at a scale that none of us have any, you know, real experience with.

[00:09:15] Kevin: And so it's definitely an issue with both the advent of technology and the, evolution of technology as well as the, ignorance, for lack of better term, of a lot of us as parents.

[00:09:31] Hector: Yeah, the fear growing up was, you know, I grew up in the nineties and the fear was like, it started to come about that, like, if you were out there, like someone was gonna come in a van and like, pull you into their van. I remember being a young kid and it was like, okay, always on the lookout for like Scooby-Doo like vans, right?

[00:09:49] Hector: Like, you see like one of those vans like, you know, look out. I may say that in jest, and of course it's not, funny, but, but the reason I, I say it in jest is 'cause I think a lot of guys or people in general think that that's still the mo for a lot of these people and that they're still operating the same way that they were operating, 10, 20, 30, 30, you know, years ago.

[00:10:11] Hector: And so you're on the front lines, literally. I'm curious how you've seen. how that evolved, and how that's changed from what most people might perceive as the threats or dangers that are out there.

[00:10:25] Kevin: Yeah, so the entire grooming process, which, you know, these guys, they treat grooming, they treat, the predatory behavior towards children, they treat it like a job. So there's, you know, groups online, they get together and they chat about the best ways to groom kids. And, you know, they, trade material and they trade, you know, tips and, tricks.

[00:10:50] Kevin: And the grooming process itself is a very specific process that these guys go through. And in the past, like you were saying, that had to be done in person. You had to show up, you had to emotionally connect with the child over the course of a few weeks. Then you had to, you know, maybe start.

[00:11:07] Kevin: Telling some secrets and getting them to, keep some, small secrets. And then maybe you brought 'em some, you know, candy or their favorite magazine and you right, there was like a, process that had to occur in person. It doesn't have to occur in person anymore. The entire grooming process can happen on the internet.

[00:11:25] Kevin: And so you will go from step number one in the grooming process all the way through to the very end where your child is. In their mind, potentially in love with this guy or whatever the case is. And then they'll set up a time to meet somewhere, and. your kid might end up going and meeting them at a park or you know, something along those lines, but you never saw any part of the grooming process because it was occurring on the internet over Roblox or over, you know, the messaging apps that you use, Fortnite, even I've had cases where people have started the grooming process.

[00:12:04] Kevin: On Fortnite and, you know, kids are playing these games and then this adult comes in and he seems super cool and he gives them some in-game currency as a gift, and then it things just kind of go downhill. And if he doesn't live in your area, maybe he doesn't set up a meet, maybe he just tries to get, images and videos of your child that are sexual in nature that he can trade or sell or whatever the case is.

[00:12:28] Kevin: And so that's how vastly different it is than when we grew up because we were riding our bikes around and, we were looking in the bushes 'cause we thought somebody was gonna jump out. And in today's, technological world, man, all that all happens on the internet.

[00:12:43] Hector: Oh yeah, The scary part. I remember my kid's mom, she sent me this message and she's like freaking out. She's like, did you know Roblox has all this and this, and did you know, you know, some crazy Diddy things and all these sorts of things, and it's like.

[00:13:00] Hector: the sad part is I'm like, yeah, I do know.

[00:13:02] Hector: I do. I am aware of that. I've had talks with the kid about it. I don't know how, if you're just catching on, which is great that now you're aware of it. And also you're the kid's mom. He's six. And if it wasn't for this, TikTok reel or whatever. they would have no idea that these sorts of things are happening in a game like Roblox or in a game, you know, in these little, in these games.

[00:13:26] Hector: Maybe the question is, and I don't know if it's a how they're doing it, but like, I think that there's a, barrier that a lot of people have to break through of like, well, how does, how does that even happen? Like to conceptualize, maybe it's the, and I think it's the, not understanding the landscape and the environment, all that stuff, how do you sort of break through to these parents for them to see that, these sorts of.

[00:13:47] Hector: Whether it's video games or these, digital environments are worth them keeping an eye on and not just letting the kids sort of run loose with their phone or.

[00:13:57] Kevin: I use a lot. So I give, talks and I do speaking engagements for large groups of parents and teachers and administrators and stuff. And I always just use case studies, my own cases, once somebody has been, charged and convicted, all that information is public information.

[00:14:13] Kevin: And so I share case studies all the time, and so I'll pull up a case. That is specific to whatever parent A is concerned about. Right? So let's say it's Roblox, well, you know what's the deal with Roblox? you know, how dangerous is it really? Well, let's, let's see. So then I'll pull up a case, that involved Roblox.

[00:14:33] Kevin: And use real life examples so that, it kind of breaks through the, well, that kind of stuff doesn't happen here. That won't happen to me. Kind of mindset because when you see these real life examples and you actually hear about, the predators and I, put pictures of these guys up so that they can actually see them.

[00:14:51] Kevin: They look like normal guys, like these guys aren't walking around in, trench coats with, you know, the, petto stash that everybody thinks that, well, some of them are, but, it's not what you think it is, there's no specific profile that these guys fit. And so I think that's important for people to know.

[00:15:09] Kevin: And, I've always been an open book about my cases. And so that's, kind of how I, break through to people is I just, you know, say, okay, well let's look at something that really happened. and that seems to help a lot of the parents realize like, Hey, this really could happen to us.

[00:15:23] Kevin: Because it's not easy. I mean, none of us want to internalize the fact that like this stuff happens and it very well could happen to my child. it's a tough thing to accept, I guess, for a parent.

[00:15:36] Hector: Yeah, for a lot of reasons. I mean, I think there's the own stigma, right? I mean, I grew up Catholic, so like

[00:15:42] Hector: that's a whole can of wor, you know, I've talked a little bit about it on the show, but like, that's its own thing, which is like, you know,

[00:15:49] Hector: but you would hope that you could trust the church as an environment, you know, where those things don't happen.

[00:15:54] Hector: And look how

[00:15:54] Hector: that turned out.

[00:15:55] Kevin: Yeah, yeah. I'm actually devoutly Catholic. and it's funny that you bring that up because I tell people that, if no population is, safe or like, inherently better than any other population in terms of the bad apples, right? So like if you take teachers, if you take priests, if you take, athletes, any population you take, the percentage of those people that victimize children is, about the same because it's really a numbers game.

[00:16:22] Kevin: And unfortunately, you know, like you said, you would like to think that like, Hey, you're. Your kid's pastor, is a safe person. And, I've worked a lot of cases where, pastors from local churches were involved in some, inappropriate stuff with kids. And so, it's not one specific group or one specific profile of offender and, it sounds scary and it sounds like, well dude, if everybody's out to get my kid, then what can I do? You know, but, and I'm sure we'll get to it later, but there's a lot of stuff that you can do, little steps that you can take that, that mitigate a lot of the risk. So.

[00:16:58] Hector: Well, I saw this post recently on one of the, dab, like, you know, things that I follow and I saw it a couple places, so, I didn't read the actual article, so again, do your own research. But one of the things that it said, and I'd be curious to get your take on it, was that One of, like, the criteria that they look for is a strong father presence, or excuse me, like, you know, a lack of a strong father presence.

[00:17:21] Hector: And thus the point of the post was just saying like, the best thing you can do for your kid to help, prevent something like that is to be, you know, a present strong fatherly figure in their life. and I'm curious sort of what your thoughts are on something like that.

[00:17:34] Kevin: So as funny as it is, that may have been my post. I posted that recently, and I said it exactly like that. I said, the number one criterion that, pedophiles use when they're choosing their victims is whether or not that child has a strong relationship with their father. Their father specifically.

[00:17:53] Kevin: and again, not to, downplay the role of the mom. 'cause that's obviously an incredibly vital, part of the child's life. But the father specifically, for some reason, these guys react differently when a father gets involved. Across the board, I've interviewed hundred, well, not hundreds, probably close to a hundred, pedophiles, child predators, whatever you wanna call 'em.

[00:18:15] Kevin: And almost across the board when I asked these guys like. why this child? The response is typically, well, I realized that dad wasn't in the picture or, you know, she told me that she didn't like her dad and, and her dad was an asshole and, and, didn't care about her. And what that does is it allows these guys to. Kinda ride in as a white knight, right? And be like, well, you know, real men would love you and take care of you. So, you know, I I, I like you, I would take care of you. I wouldn't do that to you. And it gives them a way to, to kind of insert themselves into the situation. And then secondly, these guys are all cowards.

[00:18:57] Kevin: Across the board, they're all cowards. I've never had, I've had one in my entire career. I've had one fight, when we showed up to his house to do a search warrant on his house. And that's out of, you know. The hundred that I've investigated, these guys pick children because they're easy targets, they're vulnerable, and these guys are cowardly.

[00:19:17] Kevin: And so the idea of a strong father or the idea of a strong relationship with a father, it terrifies them that they'd rather go pick another kid.

[00:19:28] Hector: Geez, that is, that is, both encouraging and, and heartbreaking at the same time.

[00:19:34] Kevin: Yeah.

[00:19:34] Hector: You know?

[00:19:36] Kevin: Yep. And, and I would say across the board, a majority of my cases, dad is either not involved or if he is involved, he's, he. Not present as a, as a father. And it's, yeah, it's, it's kind of infuriating honestly, as, as a father, and I'm sure you feel the same way. A lot of this is preventable. A lot of it is preventable on the front end by dads who just taking interest in what their kids are doing, you know?

[00:20:03] Kevin: My kids get kind of irritated with me sometimes, but the lines of communication are very open between me and my kids to the point where I've told them, you know, if you get into something that is inappropriate. With somebody you don't know or something happens on the internet and you're thinking to yourself like, oh dude, dad has talked to me about this a million times and I went and did it. I am not going to be mad if you come tell me. I'm not gonna be mad. We're gonna find a solution to the problem, right? We're gonna work through the problem and I'm, I'm not gonna be mad at you. We're gonna use it as a learning example. We're gonna use it as kind of an I told you so. But I want the lines of communication.

[00:20:49] Kevin: Now we're gonna talk later on about consequences. Phones are gone, tablets are gone. Right? So there's gonna be consequences to it, but I don't want them to be afraid to communicate with me about the things they're going through. And I think sometimes fathers can be heavy handed about that, right? And it sometimes makes the kids. Hesitant to, to tell them like, Hey, I screwed up. I know you told me not to do this. I did it. And so there's a good balance there, you know, and the communication is, is absolutely the most important thing in terms of preventing this stuff from happening or having your child come to you and communicate it to you before it gets.

[00:21:38] Kevin: Bad. You know what I mean? Like at the beginning when they're like, okay, I'm in too deep. I need to go talk to dad. Maybe you insert yourself at a time where your child hasn't been completely victimized yet. And without communication you can't do that. You know what I mean?

[00:21:52] Hector: Yeah. Yeah. With three kids. How do you find yourself, you know, are there any changes or differences you've made in your parenting or things that you do with your kids given, you know what I, I say that because like my, my best friend growing up, his mom was the lead. Like lead nurse at, Cedar-Sinai, you know, emergency room.

[00:22:14] Hector: So she like saw all of the horrors of all the news. Like every single thing around the house was like, you know, here's all the trauma that this could lead to. And so, so he grew up with this very, it was a very interesting perspective that like Donna had, but we were like, ah, it, Donna

[00:22:32] Hector: still did stupid shit.

[00:22:33] Hector: But, like what, with that sort of perspective, what, what sort of, what do you find yourself, you know, iterating to your kids or what sort of non-negotiables do you have?

[00:22:44] Kevin: Yeah, that's, no, that's a good question. So, you know, for us, starting with just like the basics, right? Screens are not allowed in in rooms if you're, if you're on the internet, it has to be in a. Public area where mom and dad are cooking dinner or your sister's sitting next to you reading a book or whatever the case is because there's, definitely a, a secrecy that goes along with this type of stuff.

[00:23:08] Kevin: And if you eliminate the chance for secrecy, then you've eliminated the problem. And so devices just, we just don't allow devices in bedrooms. Another thing is, is at night all of the devices get charged. In my room. So everybody has to go turn their devices in at night and we plug them in in our room and they're charged in our room so that there's no temptation to, you know, sneak into the kitchen and grab the phone or, or whatever the case is.

[00:23:36] Kevin: And then we don't allow the kids to be. Friends with anybody on the internet that they're not actively friends with in real life. So, if you don't know this person in real life, if you don't, you know, hang out with them if I don't know them in real life, you don't get to like hop on Fortnite and chat with them over your mic and play a game with them.

[00:23:56] Kevin: 'cause you don't know who you're actually talking to. And, you know, that one is really important to me because, you know, I've seen, I, I, I personally, go undercover quite a bit as a 13-year-old girl on the internet. And so if I can go on the internet and pretend to be a 13-year-old girl and get these pedophiles to engage with me, then anybody can pretend to be anybody on the internet.

[00:24:19] Kevin: You know what I mean? And so.

[00:24:26] Hector: So are they using like, I mean I'd imagine that with AI things gets even weirder and creepier, but is that sort of thing where they're using voices and they're using, I mean, I'd imagine image like where all, all of that sort of stuff is being utilized to coerce these kids.

[00:24:40] Kevin: Yeah. So like I'll take pictures of myself and I will be able to use ai, to alter the picture and make me look like a 13-year-old girl. And so it's, it, it, anybody can do it with, with a lot of, free apps. You can find apps on, on the app store, that can do some, you know, very rudimentary, stuff like that. And then with ai, I mean, you've seen the videos of Trump and Biden and you know, where it takes you a minute, you watch these videos and you're like, well maybe, I don't know. And so, yeah, AI is, is a whole nother, whole nother topic. I mean, I think we're gonna get to a point where we don't know the difference between.

[00:25:22] Kevin: Real and fake, very soon. And so, yeah, that is scary. And that's another reason I tell my kids, like, if you haven't met this person in real life, you don't get to hang out with 'em on the internet because that's no different than hanging out with a stranger in real life, you know?

[00:25:36] Hector: Yeah. Such a great role. Yeah, that's really great. When you, to help guys out there, is there sort of, do you look at it as like a, a framework, a set of, you know, commandments if you will? Is it a. You know, do this at this stage and then this at this age. Like, you know, how, how do you sort of break it down in terms of what guys should be doing from a practical perspective to protect their kids?

[00:25:59] Kevin: Well, I mean the, the first rule of thumb is whatever age you choose to give your kids devices, that's gotta be the age that you're prepared to talk with them about. Sexual exploitation on, on the internet. So if you're not comfortable talking about that with your 8-year-old, she probably doesn't need her own iPod or cell phone.

[00:26:20] Kevin: Right? And so that's the first thing. And, and for us, you know, the age 13 was the age that we decided that that kids could have phones. My son just turned 13, so he has a cell phone. My daughter's 12. She does not have a cell phone. She's pissed about it. There's a cutoff, right? Like you hit 13, you can have a cell phone.

[00:26:40] Kevin: And so that has done wonders because keeping the technology, out of their hands and, and not totally, I mean, obviously my kids get to, you know, watch YouTube videos and play video games and do all the same stuff their friends are doing, but keeping the phone out of their hands until the age of 13. It has helped immensely because a lot of the cases I see, you know, we're talking kids as young as six, seven, eight, having their own cell phones, which is just unbelievable to me. And at that age you can't even really start to have that conversation with them yet. So they're the perfect target for, you know, some shithead pedophile who. Knows that, that, you know, hey, that con number one, he knows like, oh, this eight year old's on the internet. So that's red flag number one and number two, you know, they, they probably are not having this discussion yet, so I can, I can be the one to introduce the topic slowly. So I would say no phones until seventh or eighth grade is usually what I suggest.

[00:27:49] Kevin: And there's other ways that you can communicate with your kids. You know, there's, apple has those Apple watches. You can get your kid an Apple watch without a phone, and so you can text and call on that Apple Watch, and you can track their location on the Apple Watch. And they don't have to have a phone to do all that.

[00:28:06] Kevin: And so there's other devices that you can give them that are way safer, but still give you the ability to communicate. 'cause that's the big thing that everybody tells me when I tell 'em, no phones until eighth grade, is, well, how am I supposed to communicate with my kids when they're at their friend's house or when they're at practice or whatever the case is?

[00:28:24] Kevin: And, and that's, you know, that's the, the workaround in my mind is other devices. But that's, that's kinda the very first thing that I tell parents. And then the second one is, take the time to educate yourself on things like the grooming process or, the statistics behind this stuff and the best ways to, kinda lock down your kids' phones and that kind of a thing.

[00:28:51] Kevin: Because in order for you to teach your child like, hey. If somebody is behaving in this way on the internet, it's an unhealthy relationship. Like you should not be communicating with that person. You have to understand the process that these guys take your kid through first. You know what I mean? And so I always advocate for people to learn and understand the, the grooming process and educate.

[00:29:21] Kevin: Yourselves on the apps your kids are using. You know, if, if your kid's constantly on discord, download discord, figure out how it works, so that you can make sure that you know exactly what, what your kid's doing. You know, and there's, I mean, there's a million other things that, that I could list off, but those are the big ones, you know.

[00:29:42] Hector: I am curious if there are sort of signs to, you know, one of the things that, we've, we've sort of. Used a little bit. And then my daughter started, you know, calling Stranger Danger to like, people that we knew at school we're like, we're, we're just at school, drop off. You

[00:29:59] Hector: know,

[00:30:01] Hector: so, so, you know, but that's still, but at least they have that, or they, you know, there's, there's signs.

[00:30:07] Hector: And we've even talked about like, not necessarily stranger danger 'cause it's like there's the whole thing, like you want your people to, your kids to, you know, be able to interact with others and whatever, whatever. But like strange. Danger, strange behavior, like things that are strange, right? Like there was the guy, you know, weird guy at the dog park who doesn't have any dogs and is all of a sudden like, really interested in my 4-year-old daughter.

[00:30:33] Hector: I'm like, hey, beautiful. That's strange. Like, like he doesn't have a, like, that is strange. So we see those like, we just gonna avoid things like that. Are there other strange behaviors that kid, you know, you, you can tell him to sort of look out for or things to avoid? Like that the kid that, that, in that conversation it can be like, things here are things that, you know, are sort of strange in that regard.

[00:30:59] Kevin: Yeah, I mean, you know, I always tell kids, especially in, in, in relation to like gaming and stuff, if, if somebody is, and it's usually a combination of things. If, if somebody is like flattering you, like over the top, and then they want to give you, robuck if your kid plays Roblox and all of a sudden this guy says, you know, Hey, you're awesome at this game.

[00:31:22] Kevin: Here's some, here's some robuck right for free. That stuff's not expen or that stuff's not cheap. And so when people start giving you gifts and then flattering you and asking if you want to play again tomorrow, a lot of kids will tell you that like, yeah, it felt. That felt weird, but I, I, I wasn't sure.

[00:31:43] Kevin: And so my response is always like, you have that feeling for a reason, right? And I would much rather teach my kids to listen to their gut feeling and then be wrong. And it was just a nice person than to rationalize that feeling away and get themselves into a, into a bad situation. But giving gifts is a big one.

[00:32:05] Kevin: If they ask your child to keep small secrets, that's a big one. Even if they're not like inherently, I. You know, inappropriate secrets if it's just something small, what they're doing is they're, they're probing to see if your child will keep secrets, right? And so I always tell my kids that there's never a reason another adult should ask you to keep a secret ever.

[00:32:30] Kevin: There's never a reason that another adult should be giving you gifts without. There being a, a reason, right, like your birthday or something like that. And obviously you know those people, if they're at your birthday then, then you know them. But those are the big ones I tell kids to, to watch out for.

[00:32:48] Kevin: And you'll see with a lot of these cases that they, these guys will, they'll walk through this exact same framework and they'll go step by step. So one of the first things that they'll do is they'll, they'll be very flattering to the child to see if this is a kid who wants attention. Or needs attention.

[00:33:08] Kevin: And then they move into kind of trying to develop an emotional relationship, some kind of an emotional connection, and then they start giving gifts or, you know, on Fortnite for example, you can gift like skins for your characters right now, like gift, gift, things like that to your child. It's important for kids to recognize that that behavior is odd.

[00:33:34] Kevin: That's not just some nice person, right? That's somebody who is trying to take you through a specific, set of steps to get you to. Point B, which is now I'm gonna start being more demanding and asking for photos or videos or for you to meet up with me somewhere. And yeah, so I mean, any behavior really that, that you guys feel as, as parents, gives you that like, weird gut feeling would be a behavior that I would point out.

[00:34:03] Kevin: I, I point stuff out to my kids all the time that, you know, like, Hey. That's really weird what that guy's doing, by the way. So like, that's not normal. And my kids have started to pick up on a lot of those behaviors and so now they'll point 'em out to me in public, which, which is I is, you know, kind of gratifying to see them kinda catching on a little bit, you know?

[00:34:25] Kevin: But your example is a perfect example. You know, why would somebody be there without a dog that doesn't make sense. Right. So it's just important that they learn to listen to their gut and recognize when something is odd and not rationalize it away. 'cause we, as human beings, we, we would prefer to rationalize uncomfortable things away.

[00:34:47] Kevin: And so you just have to empower them to, to, to listen to their gut and not rationalize that behavior.

[00:34:54] Hector: Yeah. On on the, on the sort of flip side, is there. Behaviors from a kid's perspective that all of a sudden is sort of a red flag because I think that there might be some dads or some guys who are listening where, you know, the cat's already out of the bag and, and you know, they haven't had these conversations and, you know, whatever it may be are, there is a strange behavior that goes on from kids, that might signal some of this, you know, something's going on.

[00:35:23] Kevin: Yeah. Yeah. A lot of, in, in a lot of the cases, the most extreme example obviously is that, I've had children who have started to kind of self-harm, whether that's superficially cutting, you know, their arms or whatever, or taking some, you know, some pills for, seemingly for like some attention that, that behavior, obviously that's on the extreme end, but those kids are dealing with, this traumatic event that they've been through and they're dealing with it by doing things like that, right?

[00:35:57] Kevin: So obviously if you're noticing that type of behavior, it might not be like a. A mental health issue or it might not be, an emotional issue. It might be because they've been victimized somehow. And so. That's always obviously a, a huge red flag. Another one is if they just become more withdrawn.

[00:36:19] Kevin: A lot of times I'll hear dads that are like, you know, we used to chat all the time, and we just, she was always so happy and we would laugh and ha, you know, and now like, she just seems super preoccupied all the time. You know, or she, she doesn't want to talk, she doesn't want to. You know, share her day with me.

[00:36:35] Kevin: You know, that's, that's a really big one too. Anytime, there's a serious change in personality or seemingly a change in personality, that's probably a good indication that like you need to start asking those questions, to see if, if something has happened that they haven't talked to you about. And then obviously if your kid ends up with.

[00:36:58] Kevin: Money that you don't know where it came from. Or gift cards and you're like, I didn't give you that gift card. Or skins on Fortnite or Robuck on Roblox. If they, if they seem like they're coming across, you know, gifts that you don't know where they're coming from, that's a big one. And, and a lot of parents are like, you know, they just, they told me that a friend just gave it to him.

[00:37:19] Kevin: And I just believed that it was a friend. If you don't know where that stuff's coming from, that's, you know, you need to kind of go down that road. And I've been down that road with my kids where it was a friend that gifted them things, and I was like, hold on. Where I didn't, I didn't put money on your Roblox account.

[00:37:36] Kevin: So how did you get X, Y, and Z? Well, you know, Jimmy gave me some robuck. Well. I wanna, you know, let's, let's talk to Jimmy. 'cause I, I wanna, I want to know who Jimmy is and, you know, you shouldn't, you're not supposed to be talking to people. I don't know. Anyway. And so we've kind of gone down that road with my kids too.

[00:37:54] Kevin: But definitely if you're seeing gifts or, or money that you don't know where it came from, that's, that's a problem. Secretive if they're more secretive about their devices than they have been in the past, you know, that's, that's usually a, a, a really good indicator. I would say those are probably the, the four big ones, to, to kind of watch out for.

[00:38:13] Kevin: And, you know, they're, there are things again that are very easy to rationalize away. And so I think the biggest lesson that, you know, like if, if people take anything from this, from the podcast episode, it's that. If it seems odd, it is odd. So don't rationalize that you know that, that action away, in your mind.

[00:38:38] Kevin: Like accept that it's odd and figure out why.

[00:38:42] Hector: Yeah. Oh, this is, such a needed and I think heavy conversation, but, but, you know, that's what we do try and do on the show is have the conversations that are not being had. Is there anything, anything else in terms of, I know you had, you know, some strategies or ideas or things that you thought would be helpful?

[00:39:02] Hector: We've weaved quite a, you know, ways in this conversation, but is there anything else that was on that list that you think is worth bringing up in terms of things that, that guys can do to, you know, whether it's preventative or dealing with these sort of situations?

[00:39:18] Kevin: Yeah, absolutely. I, I've actually done quite a bit of, of writing on. The simple things that we can do that, that people don't think about to, to kinda, mitigate this. And like, you know, like I I mentioned earlier, those things that I do with my kids where, devices have to be turned in at night and they're charged in my room.

[00:39:37] Kevin: They're not charged in the kitchen or the living room. And that, that whole list that I went through, that's a, those, those are huge. If you did just those few things, your chances of your kid getting victimized have plummeted. But on top of that. Setting up setting like parental controls, on phones.

[00:39:55] Kevin: It's becoming a lot easier to do with, with advanced technology. And so like Apple has Apple screen time where you know you can log in and you can set times where your kids are allowed to be on their screens. And times where they're not, and if they exceed that time limit, it just, it shuts 'em out.

[00:40:14] Kevin: They can't be on, they can't be on screens anymore. Doesn't matter what they do. You as a parent, you

[00:40:18] Hector: And I would encourage you to, to verify that these things, both with the settings part, 'cause I remember we set off, you know, whatever in Roblox and then he's got like friends, I'm like, who are these friends? And he's like, I don't know. I'm like, I thought I turned that off. And

[00:40:31] Hector: I, you know, like, so I have to go back in there and sort of re clean out his friends list of, you know, friends that are not actual real classmates or whatever.

[00:40:40] Hector: And then, and then also, oh, geez. Victoria, we get my mind blanks. She's a wonderful content editor. Or Julia. Might be, might be Julia. They're, they're wonderful. The, the other side of it, well, it'll come back to us, but it's such a, it's so, it's so important for, for guys to be active in that sort of conversation and not passive with regards to, you know, what they're doing, and thinking that, oh, it's, it's, it's done.

[00:41:06] Hector: You know, or I did that, or I had that conversation with them and thinking that that's enough.

[00:41:11] Kevin: Yeah, no, a hundred percent. And I think just the act of interjecting yourself every day. In one way, you know, like, Hey, who are you talking to? Or like, Hey, let's go, let's go play Roblox together and, and interjecting yourself into their world. Lets them know that like there's no secrecy here. Like dad is going to be part of this, every day and like.

[00:41:38] Kevin: There's, it's gotta be open, right? Everything has to be open. My kids will never have devices that have passcodes that I don't know. They'll never have, you know, apps that require separate passcodes, because if they can set up a separate passcode, then they can hide it from me, right? They can't have, I, I approve every app that my kid downloads.

[00:42:01] Kevin: I've got it set up to where he has to request. I get a request on my phone that he's requesting to download an app. And so, you know, those are just the small things where you can interject yourself. And it's gonna prevent a, a lot of, a lot of issues later on down the road. And then like content.

[00:42:20] Kevin: Filters and, and like monitoring and, and security software that's out there. You know, like bark. I don't know if you've heard of bark. Bark is a good one. aura

[00:42:30] Kevin: is. Yeah, yeah, they've got, but they've got monitoring software that, does a lot of really cool things. And I've got, I've got a list of, my favorite, parental control and monitoring softwares, that I can maybe send you after the, the, recording and you could send it out to, to all your folks. But bark aura,

[00:42:54] Kevin: is another one. Anyway, these what these softwares, what, what they do when you put them on your kid's phone is they allow you to do. Things like set up, safe areas. So you can take a map and you can draw, you know, a little box around your house. You can draw a box around their best friend's house. You can draw a box around their school.

[00:43:15] Kevin: And as long as they're within those safe areas, everything's good. But if they wander outside of those safe areas, you get an alert on your phone that like, Hey, your kid's device has left the areas that you consider safe. And so there's a lot of really cool technology and software out there, that I encourage people to, to, to look at, to put on their kids' phones.

[00:43:36] Kevin: A lot of it will notify you if they send a text message that says something about, you know, self harm, right? So let's say your kid failed a, a chemistry test and they text a friend and they're like, ah, man, I failed that test. I'm gonna freaking kill myself. Ingest, right? The phone, all it sees is that it says, Hey, I'm gonna kill myself.

[00:43:59] Kevin: And it'll notify you that, hey, this content was in the messages of your, your child's phone. You need, basically, you need to talk to him. 'cause it, you know, there might be something wrong. And so it seems kind of Big brother if, and I would, you know, obviously never advocate for anything like that, for an adult, but for kids. I always tell 'em, I'm like, your privacy for you guys is being able to use the bathroom with the door shut. It's not, you get to go to your room with your phone and lock me outta your, your, your internet life, you know? So, but I'll send those to you. It's a, it's a list of really good filters that I think people should consider

[00:44:42] Hector: Yeah, definitely. We'll link that up or, or we'll get it out to, you know, put it out for people to grab, let's see. I got two more, I guess, one more conversation, one more question for you, but before, I do that, where can listeners, or where can the guys go and, and connect either with you, or find out more about just the whole movement that you're building?

[00:45:01] Kevin: Yeah. So if you guys go to, kids digital health hub.com, that is a, a website, it's a resource that I am, part of with, a good friend of mine named Katie Long Haer. And she's a, a mother of. Three children and we decided that we were gonna build, kind of a, a resource hub for parents to be able to.

[00:45:25] Kevin: Go find documents, resources, videos, you know, sign up for newsletters that will come out and give you, you know, the, the latest in technology news and stuff like that. And then we also have our podcast, the, the Screen Guardians podcast. So every couple of weeks we release a new episode where, I talk about the cases that I'm handling and what I'm seeing in the, the world of child exploitation.

[00:45:52] Kevin: And I try to get the, the latest information out to, to parents about how they can protect their kids on, on the internet. And then if any of your listeners or law enforcement officers, if they go to guardian training solutions.com, that is my, law enforcement training business. And we do a lot of, a lot of course, everything from tactical skill sets to investigative skill sets.

[00:46:16] Kevin: So if they want to get into potentially investigating crimes against children, we have resources and stuff for them on that. So.

[00:46:24] Hector: Well, appreciate the work that you're doing. It's so important. And, you know, doing it for those who are most vulnerable. My, my last question for you, Kevin, is in your opinion, what is, your, what is the definition of modern masculinity?

[00:46:37] Kevin: Modern masculinity, being able to. Your responsibilities seriously, to the point where you're willing to sacrifice your own good, to fulfill those responsibilities. And in my mind is, is modern masculine, it's masculinity in general. As fathers, especially when we chose to get married and have children, or to have children, you know, regardless.

[00:47:06] Kevin: We had, we adopted responsibilities that we agreed to fulfill regardless of the toll it takes on us, right? And so to me, modern masculinity is, is sacrificial in nature, sacrificing what may be best for you, for the good of the vulnerable, or for the good of the people around you.