Relationships: How to Embody Modern Masculinity with Jasper Brown

[00:00:00] Hector: Welcome to the modern masculinity podcast, where we delve into the depths of what it means to be a man in today's world. And we explore the real life challenges and triumphs that you and I face every single day. My name is Hector Santiago Esteban and I come with no answers only questions for some of the most wise Insightful and grounded men that I know so get settled in You're listening to modern masculinity Fellas what's going on?

[00:00:32] Hector: I hope this episode finds you Well, I hope this episode leaves you better than when you found it And as always, I'm honored and humbled to be a part of your journey and grateful that you're a part of mine. Today's episode is, I mean, all these episodes are relevant, especially relevant for me as I'm going through my own journey and challenges.

[00:00:57] Hector: And this one is with Jasper Brown, and he's someone who I stumbled upon his content. On Instagram and it immediately resonated both way. I talked about it on the episode, so I'm not gonna get into it too much, but it just it stood out to me and it was a great. As it really as a, as a great reason and a great model for guys to aspire to so much of my own challenges have come because I didn't have the models or the examples to look to, especially with regards to relationships and, and being masculine in a relationship and, and whatever the, whatever the fuck that means.

[00:01:40] Hector: Right? Well, Well, Jasper is someone who really, he embodies that and, um, I'm excited to bring him to you. And I'm excited that you get to enjoy this conversation as much as I did. So enough of me, y'all let's get into today's episode with Jasper Brown.

[00:01:57] Hector: Jasper. Welcome to the modern masculinity podcast. Thank you for being here. My man,

[00:02:01] Jasper: thanks for having me.

[00:02:02] Hector: fanboyed out for you before we started and. In the intro I'll let the listeners know that I'm a bit of a fanboy, so , just say that now, so if I act a little strange, you know, where it's coming from, I'm excited to have you here, but take us into your world.

[00:02:16] Hector: you recently mentioned off air that, you've had. I don't know if you want to call it success. That's the loose word that I'll say, but this audience has grown over the last year or so you're putting out programs. I mean, People are really resonating with your content. I see that you and your, partner Natalie are, living in some, beautiful places, but take us into your world. What's real for you? What are some challenges for you as a man, a partner, business owner, a creator?

[00:02:39] Jasper: Look, I think a lot of my work has been born from the struggles that I experienced myself as a man coming of age, stepping into the challenges that we as men face in the world today. And I found myself at a lack of skills and understanding and mentorship and role models that would help me to navigate the very common problems that I think most men find themselves confronting in relationships, in business, in life in general.

[00:03:04] Jasper: through my own struggles and no small amount of suffering, I obviously got to a certain point, , where I felt I had made some success. Obviously, I managed to figure out some things as, a lot of people that step into coaching or teaching of some kind. We struggle, we struggle, We struggle. And eventually we find some ways that are useful.

[00:03:23] Jasper: And then it's very natural, I think, to want to turn around and help other people that you see struggling with the same problems that you had. Because you've got resources and skills and insights that, are very valuable and useful. So for me, I was already a fitness coach back in my early twenties.

[00:03:38] Jasper: So coaching was something quite familiar to me. And once I'd gleaned these sort of lessons through the trenches of, toxic relationships, struggling with my masculinity, nice guy syndrome, premature ejaculation you know, I felt like I'd got very valuable skills that other men were desperately calling for.

[00:03:56] Jasper: So I started turning around and offering those and structured my coaching around that. And yeah, since I started that message that I've been putting out kind of a healthy conscious relationship towards masculinity and being a man in the world today, it's resonating very well.

[00:04:10] Hector: Yeah it's especially resonant for me. And don't remember which video I've watched. I've consumed so many of them but they really speak to the situation that we're in as men. But what I also really enjoy about it is that They don't just point at the problem. And you've made some videos about some rather popular, mass gun figures and your thoughts on them.

[00:04:28] Hector: But one thing that, those, the Tates and some of these kind of people that are like them is that They don't really offer what I see to be sustainable solutions, or they don't really offer a perspective or a way to do it in today's world, and you've seemed to I don't know, articulate that in a way that really makes sense, so I'd love to just go there, like we've talked a lot on this show about the contrast that we live in today, especially versus the ones that are our dads and our grandfathers grew up in and that now we are, whether it's the dating world or the parenting world, the business world or whatever kind of arena that you pick, that there's really this change in an environment.

[00:05:04] Hector: I'd love to hear your perspective on, what being masculine means in a relationship today and specifically how that might differ or how that might look different from, what may have been idealized 10, 20, 30, 40, 50 years ago.

[00:05:18] Jasper: yeah, it's a great question. And I think this is a. struggle on the forefront of so many men in the world today. And there's a reason why the message of guys like the Tates, Andrew Tate and his brother are resonating so much, or even people like Jordan Peterson, who came with this attitude of men need to man up, we need to not forget the traditional values of the past.

[00:05:38] Jasper: Men need to be called into this strong, disciplined, stoic kind of masculine, virtuous state, which is very true. There is a lot of value to that. And at the same time, what I've found, at least the context of my own life, is that the world we live in today is fundamentally different. We have this revolution of the feminine since the 1950s with feminism, this whole sort of waves of women sort of reclaiming their power.

[00:06:06] Jasper: So within that context, we can't simply go back to the old world of masculinity. Men need to evolve as well. Femininity has evolved, masculinity needs to evolve in kind. And what that looks like, for me, is a move towards higher consciousness. We see this wave bubbling up all around the world with the access of all of these teachings and technologies and different systems for the evolution of thought and the evolution of being towards a higher state of expression.

[00:06:35] Jasper: it seemed very natural to me As a student of spirituality that we need to weave this higher consciousness perspective into our direction as men. Because we want to create a better world, and I think that's part of the most meaningful thing and work that a man can do is take a stand for the good in the world, take a stand for, righteous causes, take a stand for equality, and don't just say, Hey, we need to go back to men being in control and dominating and leading, but it's Hey, we need to create a future where men and women stand side by side in unity.

[00:07:11] Jasper: harmony. And so the work that I've started to do is teaching men the skills to be able to create that harmony in the context of their own life and relationship, because we want to have that in the home front. We need to have a stable base from which we can, set out into the world and come back.

[00:07:28] Jasper: Once we've been through the battles and the challenges of life and return to, to nourish ourselves. To replenish ourselves and recover and to have the sustenance and safety that a beautiful home and a harmonious relationship brings us. So my work is always focused around that nucleus of a very strong, healthy family and home front.

[00:07:47] Jasper: And then we can go out and conquer business, life, our purpose, the passions that we have, sports or whatever it is that we want to set out to do in the world.

[00:07:56] Hector: Yeah it's interesting that I have postulated on the show that the next frontier for men, for all of humanity, we were out. Conquering new lands and we were out colonizing new lands. There's really no, no more land to colonize really. There are a bunch of conspiracy theories about what's going on in Antarctica, but practically there's no more land to go out and conquer.

[00:08:17] Hector: And so for me, what I've, along with this kind of big shift that's going on, I think that. men, next conquest, if you will is, dominion over her home is right. It's we all have the ability to create our own kingdoms now. And now it's time to kind of take care of our home.

[00:08:32] Hector: And the first step for that. It seems to be is like healing ourselves. That's what also perhaps is maybe it's just kind of part of the journey that I'm in, but so much of, relationships growing up, at least relationship advice was how do I act differently? How do I get them to act differently, essentially.

[00:08:51] Hector: do I manipulate my partner into getting what I want? I mean, I'm sure that's still out there, but that's not what's resonating on my feed. And it seems like so much of what you talk about is this being able to heal yourself. Is that the first step or is there a step even before that?

[00:09:08] Hector: Or like where do you guys even begin when it comes to adopting this, higher level of consciousness when it comes to relationships?

[00:09:14] Jasper: Yeah, I think the healing stuff is a super important piece. Because a lot of us, I have to admit myself, if you talk to me about healing five or six years ago, I would have told you to piss off. I wasn't interested in that. For me the hook was personal empowerment. I wanted better results with women, I wanted better success in business, I wanted more personal power.

[00:09:36] Jasper: So to speak, and that came for me, I was very interested in spiritual paths, psychedelics yoga, tantra, these kind of things that really kind of gave me more of a sense of control over my sexual energy, my ability to get what I wanted in the world, my ability to feel this like call to adventure, like I was stepping out of the materialistic mindset into something more exciting.

[00:09:59] Jasper: more esoteric, more mystical in a certain sense. I wanted that adventure for my life. So for me, that was the call that kind of got me inspired to start thinking differently, start pursuing differently. And then through that avenue, I got to a point where I was like, Oh, okay, healing. Okay, that maybe there's something there, you know, and I realized through the numerous fuck ups that I had in relationships uh, maybe I have some work to do.

[00:10:22] Jasper: Maybe there's some stuff there that I haven't resolved from my past. Maybe I've got some shadows that I need to integrate and some skeletons in the closet. And then slowly through that, I started warming up to this idea. And A part that really sort of clicked for me was that when I started seeing the patterns that I was struggling with in relationship was actually patterns that had played out in my childhood.

[00:10:42] Jasper: And that was a huge aha moment when I realized, ah, okay, there is a lot of stuff from the past that I haven't processed and worked through. And I think that is more palatable way for guys to think about the process of healing. It's like an integration of the past. and a processing of the stuff that you didn't have the skills to understand when it happened.

[00:11:03] Jasper: Maybe you're abused when you're younger. Maybe you had a very dysfunctional family unit and your father was, very harsh and critical towards you and you didn't receive the love that you needed when you were a boy. Maybe you had some toxic relationships in your early years that left a mark on you.

[00:11:17] Jasper: That stuff is very potent material that we need to go and integrate and work with. And that process gives us an incredible skillset. to then navigate the challenges that we have in our current relationships in the present.

[00:11:30] Hector: Yeah, it reminds me of, guys though that, and I know I was one of them that would say I don't have any of those problems. I had a great childhood, you know, parents were loving, did lots of sports honors classes.

[00:11:41] Hector: The, penultimate, millennial safe childhood. And there's obviously some, damage that I think that cushiony, very sheltered childhood creates. But then as I started to dig deeper, I was like, Oh yeah, there was some crazy shit that I'd never just didn't deal with.

[00:11:58] Hector: The neighbor got really fucking sleepover and started getting all, handsy on me like Oh yeah, The third grade crush I had was just devastating. I just remember being devastated because my third grade crush did not like me. She liked my best friend and I just remember being emotionally crippled, same thing, eighth grade.

[00:12:18] Hector: And these things play out and then, married, have two kids and it's the same kind of thing that plays out which for me has just been, as I'm realizing like this huge abandonment wound and I haven't really pinned down where that part came from but I remember for my wife, when we first started dating, she would spend the night for a little bit and leave at 1 or 2 a.

[00:12:39] Hector: m. to, beat traffic or she would, leave in the middle of the night. And I remember just this uncontrollable weeping and I'm like, I remember standing on the porch being like, I have no idea why I'm bawling right now. and it was the first sign of like a trigger of nervous system response and maybe what the fuck is this, from, we've been out together eight years. And I think that relationships seem to be the thing that, poke at those triggers the most, parenting does it, business can do it, relationships can do it.

[00:13:06] Hector: And so. there's the landscape, Jasper, where do we take it from here?

[00:13:11] Jasper: I think it's super important for guys to understand because a lot of guys are not really interested in trauma and healing work. It doesn't sound very sexy. It's not very masculine, but it's super necessary. If you want to be masculine and you want to be a healthy Integral as man, you need to integrate some of these things.

[00:13:29] Jasper: You have to at least have some basic understanding because it helps you to actually create a context in your current relationship where you can actually explain why things aren't working, why you get so defensive or so reactive when your partner or spouse, says that thing and then walks out or shuts the door that triggers this almost uncontrollable reaction inside of you.

[00:13:50] Jasper: Super emotional. You don't know why. And you may never know why, but it does help to understand that pattern could have been instilled in you from the time when your parents, you were crying and they literally put you in a room and shut the door and left you to be, that can be as small as that.

[00:14:04] Jasper: It can be stuff in your mother's womb when your parents were fighting and you were in the womb, trauma can go way back, not to mention generational trauma. That we have as men from, generation after generation of emotionally unavailable fathers going through war, all of the turmoils of just survival in the world can have an impact on us nowadays, even if we seemingly live quite a comfortable life.

[00:14:28] Jasper: So that helps us to prepare ourselves in a certain sense and understand that the issues that we're experiencing in our relationships now can have their roots way, way, way, way, way back. And that helps to take a bit of the edge off because when it's like you get reactive with your partner when you have a conflict, it's not just what she says.

[00:14:45] Jasper: It's all of the train of causation that has led up to that and conditioned you to be in a certain way. And that helps you to create a bit more space around the conflicts that you're experiencing to take a step back to see it with a bit of a more broad zoomed out perspective and to hopefully use that as a way to create reconnection and to soften.

[00:15:05] Hector: Yeah. G. S. Youngblood. Are you familiar with his work? Have you heard of him? Yes. So, had him on the podcast what he really talked about was creating the space between. The response, or whatever is happening and your response. I think what we're really talking about is that ability to, separate yourself from it.

[00:15:22] Hector: And the first part being awareness and being able to know like, Hey, this is why I'm being triggered. I think the other challenge though, is. you eventually grown up to a point where that trigger, it doesn't matter it's necessary for us to evolve past being triggered.

[00:15:37] Hector: To just say that we're triggered and then to accept it and just forever be in that kind of response, I think is also. Not the masculine, right? Because that's how we had the, hyper aggressive sort of, aggro masculine abusive wife beater kind of thing. they accepted the fact that they were angry or that they got triggered or that they act this way, and didn't integrate it which I think is what you're talking about is this next step is the integration of that.

[00:16:06] Hector: Is the next part of the conversation to talk about modalities and what that actually looks like, or do you think there's more, that might help someone who is thinking about and, they might be saying like, I don't have any fucking healing to do that's not what I need right now.

[00:16:19] Hector: I just need the more, I just need, the numbers to go up. I just, want, whatever more is, should we go there have we crossed that and we can start talking about modalities and

[00:16:28] Jasper: Well, Look, I mean, I think. You can deny it for as long as you want to. You can spend your entire life denying it. Just as your father did, and your father, your grandfather, and his father, and it's going to get pushed down the line, and eventually someone is going to have to confront the reality that there's stuff to deal with there.

[00:16:45] Jasper: You can live a life completely in denial of all of that, and you can still be very successful, you can earn a shit ton of money, you can have relationships, but you will be limited by the depth. You will sacrifice that. And there's just simply levels of intimacy, levels of relating, levels of fulfillment and happiness, which you won't be able to reach because the deepest levels of intimacy are only accessible through a certain form of vulnerability.

[00:17:12] Jasper: We need to establish common ground. You and I, if you want to be close to me, you need to be able to tell me your deepest stuff because only then am I going to truly see who you as a person are. it goes both ways. So unless we develop the skills to be able to label and feel what we're experiencing at the deepest level, we're never going to be able to get as close as we might want to be, or as close as possible to someone else, because we don't have.

[00:17:38] Jasper: That which to point to. So for me, one of the first things that I really struggled with and that I was limited by was my ability to actually point towards what I was feeling and to give it a name. And then from there, once I learned how to actually identify certain things, certain feelings that I had never pointed to or never put a label on.

[00:17:56] Jasper: Then I was able to start communicating with a new vocabulary. So I think vocabulary is the first, is a really important place to start. And then just awareness, like what the fuck is it? Ah, it's grief or ah, it's neglect or, jealous. Just having that level is a. important place to start when you have conflicts in your relationship to be able to say, Hey, I was feeling jealousy.

[00:18:18] Jasper: And to communicate that instantly creates an openness between you and your lover, because there is a certain form of vulnerableness in that, which is Hey, this is the truth of me. And I'm letting you see that which can be in and of itself. Very healing. And then on top of that, we lay out all of the communication skill sets that we need to develop to be able to have a back and forth dialogue about each other's feelings.

[00:18:39] Jasper: What's going on? What are our needs? What are our boundaries? How do we negotiate and create agreements in the relationship which make? Things move in a healthier and healthier direction.

[00:18:51] Hector: you seen that movie Inside Out? it's a Disney movie. Well, I Was watching it today actually with my kids and I'd never seen it before, but I got recommended by a good friend Ali Jafarian. One thing that, when he was recommending it, as I was going into it, he said, you can't selectively numb and with men, I think the step that I would add into that as like a step two and a half after awareness is some sort of acceptance or perhaps surrender where, I think men feel it.

[00:19:18] Hector: then we've been told that we're not supposed to feel outside of this range. I've joked and it's not really a funny joke because it's pretty real. But as a Mexican American growing up, men traditionally were allowed to be drunk or angry. They couldn't really be happy.

[00:19:35] Hector: Because of all the reasons. like, those were the two accepted emotions drunk and angry. And everything outside of that had to be suppressed. And what's interesting is in the movie, you can go watch the movie. I'm not going to spoil anything but basically joy and sadness get pulled out of the character.

[00:19:51] Hector: And she's stifled from feeling both. Joy and sadness, and I think that men aren't realizing that when we go to porn or we go to weed, or we go to alcohol or we go to, wherever we go to numb that's also, yeah, it's perhaps numbing the pain.

[00:20:09] Hector: But it's also dulling all of our joy and happiness and connection. And all of the bright and good side gets dulled when we numb the bad side

[00:20:17] Jasper: Yeah, yeah, of course. And that's kind of like throwing the baby out with the bathwater. It's like get told that stoicism and this kind of strong masculinity is the way. And yet we're never told the cost that comes with that. And the cost is things like the joy. It is the depth of feeling. It is the nuance.

[00:20:36] Jasper: To all of the emotions. And that's what we're here to experience. We're here to experience the full range. And in my view, that is real emotional mastery is not the suppression and avoidance of certain feelings. It's opening yourself to the full expression of The emotional spectrum and becoming so at ease with it, so familiar with it that it's a friend instead of an enemy, you make it an ally, and then you're able to master those emotions because then you're no longer afraid of them.

[00:21:04] Jasper: You're able to feel all of the very difficult emotions that come, which we usually suppress ourselves from feeling, and that enables you to feel and access the beauty of it, the messages that they bring you. All of the nuance and richness, and that's how we actually get to a superior state of awareness and control over them.

[00:21:21] Jasper: It's not a repressive control. It's an integrative embrace of the fullness of your experience of life. And then that puts you in a much more mature state, relationally, career wise. Everything that you set out to do is benefited by this richness and all of the nuance and all of the like a superior kind of awareness that comes with that, because that's what emotion is for, it's energy in motion, like it moves you into different experiences of life, and that's how we live a truly rich experience is with the benefit of the full range of experience, not through suppressing it.

[00:21:53] Jasper: You don't need to suppress it. the thing that I think a lot of guys miss is the fact that they think that if they go into that range of emotion, that will make them too weak, too feminine, too soft, which is true in the beginning. But you have to go through that initial kind of maturing phase from immature, moving towards maturity.

[00:22:12] Jasper: And when you do that, then you become. actually way stronger because you're able to embrace the fullness of all of your experiences in life without running away or suppressing or numbing yourself. because of those difficult emotions. This makes you a really integrated man, a much stronger man and a man who's able to deal with the kind of complexity of challenges that come with women that come with the world, that come with the challenges of life and all of its myriad of, struggles and things that we are forced to confront sooner or later.

[00:22:46] Hector: Yeah. One of the challenges that, men face that I, once again, I think is a blind spot that a lot of them have guys raised in the late eighties, nineties, is that most of them, and, I'm talking from obviously Western society here, and I would imagine most of the world at this point were raised by women and the education system, at least in America, it's something like 85 percent female teachers.

[00:23:11] Hector: And so it's. Way more than a significant number, it's an astounding kind of number. And the challenge that creates is that boys, young boys ideas of what a man has been given to them by women. that boy turns into a 30, 40 something year old man and thinks that they're running the playbook that they've been told that, you know, to be the Mr.

[00:23:31] Hector: Nice guy or happy wife, happy life, this sort of thing. kind of placated men. It's, erased their boundaries. It's erased their ability to, to essentially, hold direction or it's emasculated men in a large way. And I think it's at a root of a lot of the relationships that have fallen apart.

[00:23:50] Hector: When I look at my situation, I go, yeah, there, is a lot credence there. And the problem is that I thought that I was doing what I was supposed to be doing and what they were saying, like I think of challenges I'm probably gonna hear a lot of pushback from women who listened to this episode is that, I feel like what they say they want and what they actually want. are not always the same thing. And that, leads a lot of guys astray. I was one of them. So I'm like, I'm doing what you said, but this is not creating a relationship that I thought it was going to create or that we thought, so I'm curious how that lands with you.

[00:24:23] Jasper: Maybe. I would get curious and ask you what was said that hasn't been fulfilled or has been fulfilled and hasn't been sort of in line with what you expected it to be. Is there a specific sort of situation there or something that you can point to which we could tease apart?

[00:24:37] Hector: There was a time when my wife started working a lot more, role shifted where I became much more of primary parent. She was out. Working, she was out traveling and providing and hunting and whatever. And I was at home taking care of the kids and all that sort of stuff and at the detriment of my own, business and my own goals and ambitions.

[00:24:58] Hector: And it stretched out because that was what, was said, or that was what was thought was wanted, not realizing that I had. sacrificed or I don't know, giving up the leadership of the family that I had given up the direction that energetically there was something amiss when something wasn't landing, and so that was a big wake up for me was that even if it's not just financially, that there are other ways in which men can provide leadership and direction and structure.

[00:25:28] Hector: As much as a lot of women say they don't want to be controlled or told what to do, like They still crave that structure, direction, or leadership and I was missing that because I'm just sitting here saying well, I'm, doing what you said.

[00:25:38] Hector: another thing that I think about is like asking where do you want to go to eat all the time? Yeah, I think you guys made a video about that actually recently that really rung true for me. But I used to be that guy was like, where do you want to eat? Because she's very picky about food and she always has ideas about food.

[00:25:53] Hector: So I always just, gave that decision making up, not realizing that bled into a lot of other things where Are you seeing where I'm going here? you know, is this kind of making

[00:26:02] Jasper: Yeah, I think it's a really common issue that a lot of men face. And I have a lot of coaching clients who express a similar sentiment. Like they fell into this kind of. Almost as if the polarity in the relationship got a bit flipped and we see this, this is a super systemic problem at the moment because so many women step into the masculine, they're empowering themselves, they have, a strong direction with their career, they're often earning more money than the men that they're with.

[00:26:26] Jasper: And there's also a lot of wounding there that puts them in that position where they felt like men couldn't be trusted, so they have to step in and take the lead and. support themselves in order to feel safe, which is totally valid. And we don't want to go into shaming women for doing that because that was the necessary thing for them.

[00:26:43] Jasper: The problem is that when they come home, they don't want to put the shield down. And maybe we as men fall into a pattern of, okay, if she's in that role, most of the time, I'm not going to. Start trying to fight for that as well, because then it's masculine energy versus masculine energy, which creates a repulsion effect.

[00:27:00] Jasper: And so without the awareness, the men can easily slip into a more feminine, state, which isn't particularly healthy for the sexual attraction in a relationship. We want to have some kind of, at least if you're, a heterosexual guy, you want to feel like your masculine energy has a way to express itself.

[00:27:16] Jasper: We can be in the feminine sometimes, but most of the time, me as a man, I prefer to be in a more masculine state. And you can guarantee that most women don't want to be in their masculine all the time either, because it's exhausting. But many have forgotten how to be feminine. They don't yet feel safe enough in their body, or they have a lot of trauma and a lot of stuff to work through in order to actually surrender and allow themselves to be soft again. So we have work to do on both sides. us as men, we've grown up in a society that has indeed made us more soft. Because it's easy. Life is pretty easy. We can earn money from the comfort of our home. We no longer have to go out and fight wars. We don't have as much testosterone as we used to.

[00:27:56] Jasper: Technology has made. A lot of our life very plush and at the same time, women have stepped more into their masculine. So it's like this floundering, like, where are we? What are we, how does this work again? So we are in this unprecedented time where it's okay, we need to rethink this.

[00:28:12] Jasper: And if we don't have a conscious approach to rebuilding the chemistry and the attraction in the relationship, it does naturally. lead to divorce or breaking up or things crumbling and becoming depolarized, ending up more like roommates instead of lovers. And in my view, it's not just the man's responsibility.

[00:28:29] Jasper: It's not just the woman's responsibility either. We need to do certain work to make ourselves feel more empowered, more strong, more capable, take on more responsibility, do the work to be more masculine in a sense. And a woman's work is to soften, to surrender, to also know. Nurture the feminine inside of her and allow herself to be that soft central feminine creature that all men love to be around.

[00:28:51] Hector: Yeah.

[00:28:51] Jasper: we do that together. It's not a work we just do in isolation. It's that's a project that we as a couple can work towards if we can see that is a problem in the relationship. If it is a problem, it's not always, but it's common.

[00:29:04] Hector: Yeah. I'd imagine that there's a lot of guys who are going through that. You essentially named our situation to a T. so is there hope to reclaim, that sort of. Masculinity. I mean, What you just talked about was why the show was birthed, you know, all it was essentially to find those answers.

[00:29:19] Hector: So we may have to stop the show after this episode if we get the answer, but Jasper for a guy in that situation, what does he, what are the steps or, what may be the blueprint or the mindset that, that he can, utilize to move through something like

[00:29:34] Jasper: It's a good, another really good question. And I think there are some very systematic steps that we as men can take. First of all, I made a whole course around this exact topic. It's called reclaiming the masculine, which is essentially the steps that we, as men need to take in order to.

[00:29:51] Jasper: Step back into that state of power within ourselves and to understand why we lost in the first place. So a lot of it is obviously awareness because awareness alone can be curative if we have the right theoretical explanations and understanding of how we got to where we are now. So that's super important as a foundation, understanding the necessities of the healing work that we have to do to see where those patterns came from and how they're manifesting in our current relationship.

[00:30:16] Jasper: Nice guy syndrome is a major problem that we need to start labeling, putting the finger on, understanding how that manifests in our life and start. Adopting new behaviors that enable us to regain the spine, so to speak, that we've lost. So learning how to say no, learning how to assert our boundaries, learning how to consciously communicate so we don't get backed into a corner and, nitpicked and feel like we have to walk on eggshells around the woman that we're with.

[00:30:42] Jasper: These are very fundamental skills. And then another element that I think is super important is for men to have a sense of direction and purpose in their life. If your purpose is the relationship that you're in, it's not enough because a woman, she doesn't want to be your purpose. She wants to be with a man and she wants, she will respect a man who is on a mission.

[00:30:59] Jasper: He's on his hero's journey. He's taking strides and working towards something beneficial for himself, for his family, for mankind that has a deeper calling. So even if the relationship does end. For whatever reason, he's good, he's going to keep going on his path. If he doesn't have that as an anchor, as a compass that points him in the right direction, it's super easy for him to fall into a state of codependency in the relationship to become very enmeshed and emotionally tied to the, emotional states and feelings of his partner and get pushed around, washed around very easily when things are off with her.

[00:31:34] Jasper: He needs to have a brotherhood around him. He has to have camaraderie with like minded men. Who can support him, who he can go and nourish himself with that energy. So I think there's a, there are very fundamental steps, the healing stuff, the awareness, the theoretical understanding, the wounds and understanding how those all affect him stepping into his power, stepping onto the hero's path, deciding on a sense of direction and purpose with his life, doing activities, which make him feel stronger and more masculine.

[00:32:02] Jasper: That's why I started jujitsu before that I was a yogi. I was just doing yoga every day for five years. And that put me in a very feminine state. As soon as I pick up jujitsu, it's like bang in a room with hard men who want to rip my legs off, you know, and strangle my throat.

[00:32:18] Jasper: And I have to step into that fight energy in a very kind of technical skill based way. So I have to go and sharpen myself on a daily basis on the mat with a bunch of hard motherfuckers. So that instantly put me into a different kind of energetic state with my masculine energy. And then the next thing is.

[00:32:34] Jasper: Having a business, having the capacity to earn money, not for the money itself, but for the energy that it brings you as a man, the state that it puts you in, problem solving, building up resources, creating structure and organization in your life, having discipline, commitment, consistency, determination to reach the next level. Women appreciate a man who has money because it's not just the money, it's the qualities that he had to develop to get the money. That shows that he is safe to be around, that shows that he is a man of quality, that he has a certain character that has enabled him to be successful in life. And that's attractive for a woman.

[00:33:13] Hector: well, there's the blueprint. so let's give a quick plug that we're going to talk about at the end, but you have, a course on it, which walks through that. Cause that's, that is the blueprint right there. And it's exciting because I think that, at least for me personally, those are the steps that I've, identified.

[00:33:27] Hector: At least, breathwork for me has has been a huge game changer. Old plunges this morning. I jumped in the ocean at like five a. m. And actually it was a lot warmer than I thought it was. I thought it was going to be, but those types of things, I think are helpful modalities. Are there other things, practices that you enjoy that you think can aid in this process.

[00:33:49] Jasper: First and foremost with to go back to the beginning of it with the awareness, the healing work, the integration of shadows, the Understanding of your wounds and moving through those in a way it's super important to develop a certain level of emotional intelligence.

[00:34:02] Jasper: So practices that put you in contact with the feelings that you have because the feelings are dictating a lot of the problems that we experience and also where we want to go with our life. For me, that was a huge necessary part to get to. Was actually just accessing what I was feeling, how I was feeling, and how I communicated that in my relationship.

[00:34:21] Jasper: And that gave me the skills to then approach my relationship and say, baby what do you need more of? is there something that you're missing? What would you need in order to feel more feminine around me? What would you need in order to feel like you can trust me more? Is there something that I could do that would make you feel safer? Because that's when we understand what she needs and. the necessities that she has and how she's looking towards us and feeling towards us. That gives us so much useful information. And I've had a lot of guys in my courses say they had that conversation. She said, I've, I want you to earn more money because that makes me feel safe when I feel like our family is provided for.

[00:34:59] Jasper: I want to feel like you're able to listen to me and validate my emotions. And you don't get defensive when I express my pain, little things seem like a trivial thing actually have a huge implication on the sparks, the attraction, the flow of intimacy, the love making in the relationship.

[00:35:16] Jasper: So I think that's a really important place to start is not neglecting the emotional work. Which is very unsexy, like no guy wants to do it, it's very hard to tell, you know, and when I say in my content online, like men need to soften up, they need to get in touch with their feminine side, they need to integrate their emotional experiences and be able to communicate on that level.

[00:35:37] Jasper: It only gets likes from women, like the guys are like, nah, fuck that shit, like that's, I don't want to do that work. But it actually has a huge implication for the relationship and then it needs to be balanced with. The masculine side. So that's why, I do a lot of that feminine work with myself to open myself up and develop that level of deeper connection with myself and my partner.

[00:35:59] Jasper: But I balance it with the other archetypal masculine stuff, jujitsu, business, you having brotherhood and a men's group that I'm a part of, which that masculine side of me. The integration of both. We don't just want to be that strong, alpha, emotionally unavailable guy. We also don't want to be the soft, sensitive, people pleasing, nice guy.

[00:36:22] Jasper: We want to be the guy in the middle that has access to the best of both, with none of the drawbacks and none of the toxicity that we find at either end of the spectrum at the extremes.

[00:36:32] Hector: Yeah. I think you really created and presented a, really the answer to the show. I don't know if we need to do another episode because I think we've found all the answers in the sense of, what does that evolution look like? And perhaps Thanks. once enough men get through that we'll find a new, a new pinnacle,

[00:36:52] Hector: a new way to evolve. But I think that you've really laid out the path for guys, the journey. And I think that knowing the steps that you laid out is so valuable. I'm trying to think of the book that it came from. I think it's called like the great leap or something like that.

[00:37:08] Hector: I should probably remember the name of the book, but essentially it was a parable. And the main character, he's going, he's trying to find this gold, in some room, but it's a dark room and he can't see anything. And all the obstacles are in there. essentially the hook at the end of the book was that he could just turn on the light that all he had to do is just turn on the light.

[00:37:27] Hector: And what if you turn on the light that everything would have been illuminated and he would have realized how easy the path was but he had to stumble through his own journey to realize that. However, if we know what to look for and have an idea of what's coming at least we can start to prepare Talk to us more about the programs.

[00:37:44] Hector: Talk to us more about, what you're doing. Obviously, the Instagram is a great place to go. That's where we connected. What else, do you have going on in our house? Can people get more involved with, what you're doing?

[00:37:53] Jasper: Yeah. So all my work is based off the legendary lover. com. That's my website. And obviously I share a lot of content on Instagram and I have two programs that I've run. One is reclaiming the masculine, which is all about helping guys to step into that integrated state of masculinity, to heal their wounds, become much more conscious of their patterns to develop a much more healthy relationship and find their direction, purpose, and meaning in life, which I think is just such a.

[00:38:22] Jasper: Fundamental foundation for, pretty much every man. And then the other level of what I offer is a program called the legendary lover, which is much more around. sexuality, intimacy, lovemaking, developing much more control and awareness over the sexual energy, because that's obviously an area where so many guys struggle with premature ejaculation, erectile dysfunction, performance anxiety.

[00:38:44] Jasper: And it's really the nucleus of a good, healthy relationship is the way that you come together, with your clothes off, soul. And body laid naked with this beautiful person who you call your partner. So making that as best as it possibly can be such a antidote to a lot of the problems that we face in relationships and make sure that it's supercharged, deep, vulnerable, connected, passionate, very ecstatic and fulfilling.

[00:39:09] Jasper: So those are the two wings of what I do. I have men's groups that are attached to both of those that I do calls with. There's about 30, 40 guys in each group. And we meet on a bi weekly basis. So at the moment, that's the kind of nucleus of my work. And my focus is all around those courses and the men that have decided to jump on the path with me.

[00:39:27] Jasper: So if anyone listening wants to check that out, you can follow me on Instagram at awaken underscore Eros or head to legendary lover. com.

[00:39:35] Hector: Yeah, we'll link all those up in the show notes. So when it comes to videos, is there one that stands out more than others?

[00:39:39] Jasper: That's hard to answer. Some stand out much more to women. Most of my viral videos were actually with women and it's interesting because most of the people that follow me are women, something like 65, 70%, which shows that this kind of work strikes a chord with women who are basically like calling for men to have these qualities.

[00:39:56] Jasper: I have women literally messaging me on a weekly basis saying, where do I find a dude like you? And. That obviously says something that I constantly hear women saying like where are all the good strong conscious healthy Masculine men, where are they? And I'm like, they're right here. They're in my group. I see them all the time, but they're not so common it's only a specific sort of man that I feel is actually called to this work because unfortunately the Mass level of consciousness of a lot of men, unfortunately, at this stage is still very wounded, very immature.

[00:40:33] Jasper: It that's why they resonate with the message of guys like Andrew Tate, who are promoting this very. In a certain way, it's inspiring because he's telling men to wake up and start getting their shit together and stop being a pussy and start really putting things in place to have the kind of life that they want.

[00:40:50] Jasper: Unfortunately, it also comes with a kind of stoic suppressive, Even toxic masculine kind of qualities under the surface. And I have a lot of experience with Tate. I've done his courses. I was very close to joining the war room. I went quite deep into his philosophy. I was even living in Bucharest, Romania, where he lives.

[00:41:07] Jasper: So I was quite close. But the deeper I got into it, the more cult like I saw it to be, the more problems and red flags started to appear for me. And I saw actually, There's a lot of things missing there. It's not a very conscious approach. It has no awareness over the deeper wounds, the deeper patterns, the nuances of a truly healthy, intimate, harmonious partnership, which is what I was looking to create.

[00:41:32] Jasper: I had a lot of problems in my relationship. And when I started following Tate, those problems were magnified. And they got way worse and we almost broke up multiple times. I started adopting behaviors, which it just didn't fly. It didn't work. And it wasn't in line with who I was and who I wanted to be as a man. So once I tested it for myself, okay there's some problems there. It's missing a lot of things. I'm going to create my own path, And since I did that, my relationship transformed with almost like a wave of a magic wand. Things got super healthy, super harmonious. We started making love a lot.

[00:42:05] Jasper: The lovemaking improved. She started initiating the lovemaking a lot more. I Was able to step into, because the relationship became very harmonious, I was really able to step in and focus on my purpose, my direction, my business, my jujitsu, all of these other things that nourished my masculinity on another level.

[00:42:23] Jasper: And so I felt like I found the best of both. got to see the deepening and the harmonization and the healthiness of my relationship improve. Almost overnight and I got to feel like I'm the man I was empowering myself. I was making huge strides, strides in business and just in my personal practice, my understanding of spirituality and the kind of expansion of my consciousness.

[00:42:46] Jasper: So for me, I felt like I'd uncovered this kind of magic recipe, this blueprint, which enabled me to live a much more healthy, fulfilling integrated life.

[00:42:57] Hector: That's brilliantly said. And that's where we're gonna leave it y'all. I want to thank every single one of you for sticking with us. If you made it this far, we would love and appreciate a rating and review wherever you get your podcast. And if you know a guy needs to hear this, send it to him. I say it every episode, but there's probably not enough guys Talking about and asking about these sorts of things.

[00:43:16] Hector: But we all know that there's a guy who's going through it. They just had their first kid. They're getting married. Like your life is getting real for them. Send them this episode and let's grow the tribe together. And as always, we appreciate you being here. We'll see on the next one, fam.

[00:43:28] Hector: Later, y'all.