Purpose Without a Map: The Hard Questions Men Need to Ask Themselves with Pablo Orrantia

[00:00:00] Hector: Fellas, what's going on? I hope this episode finds you well. And as always, I hope this episode leaves you better than when it found you. And today's episode is with Pablo Oria, and he is a musician. He's a dj, uh, breath. Work facilitator and someone I met in an event and had the unique pleasure of interviewing.

[00:00:49] Hector: And we talk dating, we talk, coming outta that breakup, heartbreak, you know, all the things that I think like a lot of guys, go through, but probably don't wanna talk about. And so it's a fantastic conversation as always. So enjoy today's conversation. An episode with Pablo Oria.

[00:01:09] Hector: Pablo. Welcome to the, , masculinity podcast. Thanks for the interview. Thanks for having me. We are at, , our mutual friend Jason's.

[00:01:17] Hector: About a lot of the weight that the world is carrying and a lot of the, the shifts in the world. But I'm curious for you, what challenges, what , battles, what loads are you carrying and sort of working through as a man today?

[00:01:34] Pablo: that's a really interesting question. Nobody's asked me that in a while. I think, , a lot of what I'm working through is related to sort of, , my career. Like well, not even necessarily my career, but like what am I doing with my time? What am I devoting my energy to, , understanding how much of my time.

[00:01:52] Pablo: Should be for my, I think a lot of guys spend a lot of time like, building themselves and, . Thinking about how can I make myself better? How can I improve these things for myself? But I'm starting to notice that in myself, whoa, like should I be spending more time thinking about others a little bit more?

[00:02:10] Pablo: I mean, I'm single and I, really looking forward to a future where I have children. And obviously, , once I have kids, like it's gonna be a very different experience. Like I'll just have to be service oriented because that's the default for a dad. , But for now, like I wonder how much of my time should I be spending, you know, in service of others.

[00:02:29] Pablo: And so, , that's something that I think about a. I think

[00:02:33] Hector: it's worthwhile and I think it's great. You know, being on the other side of that, I'd be like, man, enjoy your, enjoy the time that you have. to focus on you. Mm-hmm. Because that was something that after having two kids, you know, back to back sort of going through that there was a, reemerging of my son and I.

[00:02:54] Hector: I lost myself in that process, you know, and, transparently, I don't know that I knew who I was even before that. You know, I was who my mom wanted me to be. I was who my teachers wanted me to be. I was who my, you know, ex at the time wanted me to be. I was all, you know, trying to be these people pleasing.

[00:03:10] Hector: And it was only after everything fell apart that I actually spend the time to figure out like, what the fuck do I wanna do? What do I enjoy? So I might say, I don't know what that answer is. I only, only you can sort of determine it, but, I, I wouldn't downplay, , the importance of you also servicing yourself.

[00:03:31] Pablo: Yeah. Yeah. Thanks for that perspective. and I do spend a lot of time thinking about improving myself it feels like I do spend a lot of time sort of improving, thinking about my physical, my health, my mental, , my career path.

[00:03:45] Pablo: Again, my energy, like what am I doing with my time and, and whatnot. , Well, I think another challenge

[00:03:50] Hector: that, you know, you're 32. I'm 33, and I'm sort of grateful that I was taken out of that sort of. Single life, single perspective, just because I know how full of distractions at least that lifestyle was for me.

[00:04:09] Hector: Whether it was partying or, all these things that I could be voting my time to, voting all things these, things or people that I could be giving my energy to instead of investing in myself. and so, as I'm sort of. Re coming back into the scene, you know, single or date, like, it's interesting that I'm finding that I can go without those distractions that I don't have to sort of look for.

[00:04:34] Hector: , Like, it just doesn't have to be a distraction. Don't get me wrong, I've, you know, had to delete the dating apps multiple times and figuring out like, what am I searching for and why am I scrolling through these things? And what, you know, trying to, uncover all those layers. but I, wouldn't shortchange, you know, sort of the work that you're doing because it's, I think it's definitely valuable in service to the people that you know, you will have under your domain in the future.

[00:04:58] Pablo: and you bring up an interesting point about like being a dude, , I was in a really long relationship and then that ended and then about six years ago, and then I've just been back, like on the dating market and , , I did feel a lot of.

[00:05:14] Pablo: What you talked about, like the expectations of other people on you and, , feeling like being a person that is like fulfilling the expectations of certain family members or even of like the collective societal voice. Like, this is what you should be and this is what, , a guy should be and this is what, , this is how all of your friends behave kind of like the right template.

[00:05:33] Pablo: What's the right acceptable template. And I was having a conversation with a friend recently. He was telling me like about dating , and how he is uncomfortable just like hooking up with women. Just on a dime or like after having just met them and it was such an interesting conversation because I think most guys hold this like across the board, you know, if you're with a group of friends, like you talk about that like it's a casual sort of part of life.

[00:06:01] Pablo: And I think it's actually what I'm seeing, especially here in California, like it is kind of a casual part of the culture. Like hookup culture is like a kind of a normal thing. Becoming kind of a normal sort of thing that happens. You go on, maybe even you even go on a dating app and like guys and girls like start to look at dating app as like this kind of thing that facilitates those kinds of interactions.

[00:06:22] Pablo: And I just think there's actually like a subset of the male population that is just actually uncomfortable with that. Like, I don't really actually feel fully comfortable jumping into like really casual or really quick flings. I've found that out over the years. Like, that's not for me because I don't feel comfortable during and after.

[00:06:43] Pablo: Like, I don't feel like it was wholesome. I don't feel like, . It added much, and I also feel like it becomes a distraction, a lasting distraction, because then you have weeks or days after where you're like, you know, you could be working on your mission or yourself or building something, but instead you're like, distracted with this person that you met once.

[00:07:01] Pablo: And it, it, isn't even like a real match, like a soulful match, but you're spending time hanging out with them. You might even know you shouldn't be. And because you created that sort of chemical bond, now you're sort of locked into something that could go on for a little bit too long. and I've done that and I ended up like, you know, dating this girl for like, way, way too long, even though I knew I shouldn't have been.

[00:07:24] Pablo: And I ended up having to like. You know, say like, oh shit, I'm realizing like I'm in this for the wrong reason. And, breaking that to her. And that wasn't cool for her, nor was it for me. , Because you sort of become enmeshed physically, and that's very different from a soulful, real spiritual connection that you can have with a woman.

[00:07:42] Pablo: So

[00:07:43] Hector: I am scared of the energetic ties that come from like, casual sex. Yeah. One of our, , previous guest Tiago. he's amazing. He's the most handsome man I've ever been on the show. Well, you're close second, but, he talks about how like even just one intimate encounter.

[00:08:01] Hector: Binds your right. You know, they talk about quantum entangling and all this sort of physics, but, there is an energetic binding that happens and I'm just like. I'm terrified of that, happening with the wrong person because I've, seen for me the negative, , repercussions of, that enmeshment.

[00:08:19] Hector: Yeah. Right. And not being able to break those ties. Totally. And it's like, even with my ex-wife, it's a really interesting phenomenon intellectually knowing. I don't want to be back with her. But then physiologically feeling this, like want, it's just such a strange thing to be Yeah. To know that that is not good for you.

[00:08:38] Hector: You don't want it. and I think that that's part of that is that there's that energetic, you know, time. One of the things that's, that's worked for me, , has been something called like cord cutting. it's pretty woo woo. Maybe it's not, I don't know, but it's like. I told Chris who recorded with earlier, I'll fucking try anything.

[00:08:54] Hector: You know, are you familiar with cord cutting? No. So, you can get into however, sort of woo woo you want, but it's essentially, you know, visualizing these energetic ties, breaking with these individual people. And there's some guided meditations. And what was interesting is, I remember there was one time.

[00:09:09] Hector: I was in a breathwork session and it was a cord cutting breathwork. And, you know, I was severing ties with my ex-wife. And I felt and saw the cord sort of coming outta my stomach, like an umbilical cord. And you know, after the practice I just started vomiting, un control and purging, just like wow, just purging.

[00:09:27] Hector: , and what was interesting is as I sort of went throughout it, you know, a couple sessions later, I had to like cut the tie off of my like. Like, I felt it attached, not to my stomach anymore, but my heart. And like then I had this like weird chat. Like it wasn't just one court, it wasn't just one tie.

[00:09:43] Hector: It was like, you know, granted we created two children together. We were married But then just to, pretend like, oh, things are done. Like, I, don't think guys are realizing that there are some. I don't know. There are some other things going on that keep someone from fully turning that page and unless we're willing to like do the work to get through that, you know, that's the trauma that ends up creeping up on us years later when something else happens.

[00:10:10] Pablo: Sex is such a powerful, , driver of behavior I mean, exactly what you're saying. Like, you could sleep with somebody and then, be thinking about them for three weeks . And some people become really good at severing it, you know, quickly and easily. and I don't know if that's a good thing

[00:10:25] Hector: I question whether or not they're actually That's the truth though, right?

[00:10:28] Hector: Because it was like, when I dealt with my sort of breakup, it was like, it was interesting how quickly she seemed to like bounce back and have a new guy and like, be engaged. And it was just like, , I wonder, If she went through all of the stages, maybe she just did it earlier.

[00:10:43] Hector: You know, they say that women sort of go through those, those sort of stages earlier, but I'm like, man, Uhhuh, I need to really process what this was for me. And perhaps it was different from her. It was like this took some work and I knew that I wanted to jump back in and I wanted to, you know, hop on Tinder or hop on all these apps.

[00:11:00] Hector: Yeah. But I just, I knew something inside me told me that I would just be like, throwing dirt on a wound that wound is still gonna be there. Yeah. Just by pretending it's not there, it's just gonna get more infected.

[00:11:11] Pablo: Yeah. , and I remember even, it was interesting because when I started dating again.

[00:11:18] Pablo: I did the dating apps thing. I was like, oh, lemme try the dating apps thing. And , , I don't have great things to say about the dating app thing. I mean, ' cause you know, within five minutes if they're like a person that you vibe with or not. And. you don't really get a person's vibe.

[00:11:32] Pablo: You don't really get a person's energy. You don't really get any of the stuff that you need to actually read a person that you would get if you're sitting in a room with them, you immediately know like, oh yeah, that's maybe my type mean that's one way to approach meeting somebody.

[00:11:44] Pablo: Another way to approach meeting somebody, which I also think is kind of underrated and like people don't really think about is what if you know somebody for a really long time and you love their person and you start to love their. what they look like, and that's a different kind of approach.

[00:11:55] Pablo: And that's, because it's like trust first. , Which is something I'm starting to see, like I'm starting to evaluate the women around me differently. , Not so much in terms of like, oh, what do you look like? And then starting to evaluate the other stuff, but like evaluate the other stuff. First, and recognizing like all of the depth and substance of a girl's character, , which has been a very, , like illuminating chapter for me.

[00:12:22] Pablo: I think because, , I find myself attracted to people that I wouldn't have. I, I find myself very attracted to people for much different reasons than I did two years ago. That's been an interesting process too.

[00:12:35] Hector: Yeah. I had a realization recently that I was like, oh shit, I have a type. it scared me.

[00:12:39] Hector: ' I just, I realized that, I needed to put that type down and I needed to go, go open myself to other possibilities. , But I think it was, part of it is a thing. Maybe it's even a confidence thing. I don't know what it is. Right. But I, I had to be willing to open the door to something different the spicy Latina, although fun and great,

[00:13:00] it's a rollercoaster.

[00:13:02] Hector: At the event today, you led us through a, breathwork session and it was really interesting 'cause I can only imagine that it, like, if. Someone would've peeked over the fence and looked, you know, into what was happening.

[00:13:12] Hector: They would've seen like 15 dudes laying on the floor, like, you know, making loud noises. And I, I'm sure most people would've been thoroughly confused or, , concerned if, nothing else. Yeah. But I was like, there was a moment where I was like, oh, this is so incredible that we are getting the chance to do this.

[00:13:30] Hector: You know, that there are guys who are willing to play full out. And I think there was only maybe one person who was their first time doing it. So it wasn't like this new sort of thing. Well, it's becoming new, but how do you feel a about that? And, and I'm curious why you thought rep work was something that you would sort of learn to facilitate and get trained in and start to help people through.

[00:13:54] Pablo: Oh, that's an interesting story actually. I think a lot of people maybe go through a period in their life where things start to collapse and then they're, trying to wrestle with it and stay afloat. And, , there was a period where I was really trying to stay afloat , and I went to a breath work retreat. It was a two day breath work retreat.

[00:14:14] Pablo: Actually, it was hosted by my mom and a group of other breathwork practitioners that they were all sort of training together. This was like eight years ago. , , it was a whole weekend of stuff, and then I felt healed. I felt changed. I felt different. I was like, oh, cool. I'm fixed. I can manage stuff.

[00:14:32] Pablo: I can deal with stuff when I get to the airport. And my depression and my anxiety. You know, I'm boarding the plane. It's a Sunday night, the Sunday scaries kick in, and, and I felt oh no. Like I'm right back where I was on Thursday evening when I got here. Is nothing changed. Like, nothing works. This is so bad because I was like, I don't see a way out.

[00:14:57] Pablo: , and I sat in the terminal and I just did what I learned that weekend, which is just breathe deeply, exhale slowly. , And I did that for five minutes, seven minutes, eight minutes, and I realized like I'm actually influencing seeing my physiology right now. I'm feeling a bit more optimistic.

[00:15:15] Pablo: And by doing that through the breath, by calming my nervous system, I unlocked it, , a more optimistic perspective because they're interlinked. Your perspectives and your physiology are in are connected. If you're feeling fatigued, tired, , stressed, your thoughts are gonna reflect that and they could be more fear-based.

[00:15:36] Pablo: And, , if you are energized, optimistic, laughing, and joyful, , well guess what? Your thoughts are gonna reflect that too. And, , your decisions are gonna reflect your actions. So I noticed, oh wow. Like breathwork a tool on the tool belt. It's not the solution. It's not a fix, but it is a tool to help somebody to manage circumstances.

[00:16:01] Pablo: And that's when I started realizing that all these other modalities that people try meditation and breath work, the different kinds of meditation, Wim Hof, transcendental Somatic, which is the one that I like, , gut certified in. . , You know, all of these things are, are tools, , yoga, working out, , martial arts, like everybody has their modality.

[00:16:21] Pablo: , There's no prescription, there's no, this will fix you. There's go out and try stuff that get you, land you in your body, put you in your present body and improve your perspective in order to really. Purify the lens that you're seeing life through. Let's look through life through a clearer and a and a more optimistic lens, and it's making a conscious effort at every turn.

[00:16:44] Pablo: Monitoring your physiology and being really attuned to yourself that sort of unlocks the ability to, again, manage. And when you're a good manager of your body and the signals that it's giving you, you can navigate anything. You can navigate really hard, difficult things that take a toll on your physiology, on your mental health, on your outlook.

[00:17:10] Pablo: When things feel bleak and hopeless you have leverage. And that is why I do it now. And I'm able to sum it all up like that. Now, I only got certified, , eight months ago , and like I mentioned, I did the breathwork thing eight years ago, so seven years passed and. It was still a journey of up and down, and I would forget that it was a tool and a modality that was sitting in my tool belt and, and I would find it again.

[00:17:35] Pablo: And, , and about a year ago I got really, really into music production , and I was like, oh yeah, I'll, I'll start making music for, breath workers. And my mom was like, why don't you go get certified at this place to be a breath practitioner? I was like, I don't care about that. . And she was like, well, if you're gonna make music for him, at least go get, you know, know what you're they're doing.

[00:17:53] Pablo: And I was like, okay. Yeah, good point. Went. , I absolutely loved the weekend and all the people that I met that weekend. and I just had like two or three moments, particularly during a breath work in, , one of these sessions where I had. Really clear realizations, , physical sensations. And just very meaningful experiences during my breath work, , where it was like, Hey, this is definitely something that you can bring to people in a way that is helpful , it's one way that I'm of service. And it's very fulfilling. and I always feel like I'm in the right place when I'm doing facilitating for people. So, I think it's great and

[00:18:32] Hector: I love that more people are coming online to the possibilities of what happens with, , breath work.

[00:18:40] Hector: You know, meditation sort of hit that it got popular, you know, let's say 10 years ago or whenever that was. I got really deep into mindfulness, which I think is, is great in terms of becoming aware. But there were so many times throughout this journey, and I, I realize to go back to this, you know, divorce a lot, but guys can pick whatever sort of event, you know, in their life.

[00:19:00] Hector: And I realized that I intellectually knew that I needed to get past this emotion, or I needed to process this or that there was some, grief, something that I, I needed to. I wasn't able to feel my ego sort of was protecting me from going into this, this deeper layer of emotions because it's like, that's too painful that hurts too much.

[00:19:23] Hector: So we're just gonna block that off. We're just gonna wall that off. We'll, you know, throw that into the, cellar. And it was like, breathwork became this tool that allowed me to go and dig shit up and deal with it. You know, and able to move forward and process some of these things you know, shit was coming up from my childhood when I was seven and nine.

[00:19:41] Hector: Like all these things that, you think are in the past, they're just stored somewhere in your body. Yeah. And it requires something like this pick, you know, it doesn't have to be, but it is, like you said, a tool that allows you to go in and sort of dig these things up and deal with 'em.

[00:19:58] Pablo: Yeah. I mean, a lot of somatic breath work and the philosophy behind it.

[00:20:02] Pablo: , Or like the aim is exactly that. it's just kind of like to shake up what's happening inside of you, right? It bring you into a really, , , stimulate the nervous system kind of almost in a way agitating your nervous system. . Then allowing whatever it is to come up, to come up and express it.

[00:20:18] Pablo: and I'm sure you've experienced that and it's, or like you said, you've experienced that and it's really powerful because you get to, shed this weight that you didn't know you were carrying. Then you walk around a lighter person and you're like, oh, fuck. Sick. You also feel more capable of dealing with the world when you've been through the process of carrying a bunch of weight and then shedding it, knowing that like, oh, in my opinion, like I think it's a guy's duty to like.

[00:20:46] Pablo: Lean into fear, lean into stress, take on a bunch of challenge, and you're gonna get hurt, and you're gonna sustain damage. Can you shed it as quickly as you carry it so that you're light and agile and continue to move on your feet like you should as a guy? , And so I think for that reason, it's also a very cool tool.

[00:21:01] Hector: Paula, if people wanna get more involved with you, follow with you. I know you're gonna be putting out some music soon. Where's the best place for people to get connected with you?

[00:21:09] Pablo: , You can connect with me on Instagram. At Insta Pos, PABS. , That's mainly where I'm at right now. I will be releasing music on Spotify in the coming year.

[00:21:20] Pablo: That'll all be linked on my socials,

[00:21:22] Hector: we'll link that up. Yeah. , And in your opinion, Paolo, what is the, , definition of modern masculinity?

[00:21:28] Pablo: if I had to sum it up for you now, I would say

[00:21:30] Pablo: I think being in your masculine means, , being grounded in yourself, , not being influenced

[00:21:37] Pablo: by those around you in the moments where it's key to have conviction or restraint. , I think that, , establishing your set of principles and values and. Acting on them no matter what emotional state you're in and taking on the duties of a leader. So supporting other people, supporting family, supporting your wife, supporting your kids, supporting your parents.

[00:22:05] Pablo: Supporting those who need physical, psychological support. , Basically being an agent of, order and being an agent of, empathy and, checking your pride and checking your actions on a.