Relationships: Does Masculinity Still Matter in Modern Dating? with Greg Wasserman

[00:00:00] Hector: Fellas, what's going on? I hope this episode finds you well, and I hope this episode leaves you better than when it found you. Today's episode is with one of my friends, Mr. Greg Wasserman. And Greg is a, good soul and a great guy. And I was like, we got to come on and chat because he's someone who's real and authentic and, you know, shares that.

[00:00:51] Hector: In his own world, I wasn't sure where we were going on this conversation and what we were doing, but I'm really glad that we did because it went into some really raw, real places and some real challenges that guys experience in the dating world. And, it's a good conversation, one that definitely needed to be had.

[00:01:12] Hector: I'm going to get out of the way here. Let's get into today's episode with Mr. Greg Wasserman.

[00:01:17] Hector: Greg, welcome to the Modern Masculinity Show, man. It's great to have you here.

[00:01:20] Greg: Hey, it's great to be here, honored to be a guest and share some wisdom with everyone that's listening.

[00:01:25] Hector: Yeah, it's cool because I think that, our connection, our relationship is sort of emblematic of why I really enjoy the podcasting space as a whole. It's because you can kind of connect with someone online. You meet them in real life and you're like, Oh, this guy's not a total douchebag. and, uh, he's better looking than me, which is great.

[00:01:45] Hector: Cause there's less pressure there around, you know, in crowds and, see how it goes from there. But, but all that to say that, like think social media is a great place for connection, for people to get connected and then allow that relation to kind of build outside of it.

[00:01:57] Hector: And so, I just wanted to say that. First, but I'd love for you to take us into your world and, share what's real or prescient for you as a man, a guy, you know, you're out here trying to make things for yourself in this new world. Let's see any, I mean, you've been out here for a number of years, but still feel like, you're on a quest, if you will.

[00:02:16] Hector: So take us into your world and, what you may be prescient for you right now. Thank you. Yeah, no,

[00:02:20] Greg: I guess go back to your first comment, like, yeah, I love my life. My ethos is life is about time and relationships. You've no clue where one conversation is going to lead into the future. So I love how we connected and I truly love the podcast space because of that. And then we got to meet.

[00:02:34] Greg: Physically an event and all the joyous things that you said, though, you're a good looking guy. you're the one that's married with kids. I'm still single and I'm older than you. So, there's that fun, right? I am about looks, um,

[00:02:48] Hector: comment there. Keep going though, Greg.

[00:02:50] Greg: but in terms of, I guess the, bigger thing, like, I got in a car accident, so I'll spare all the details, but I got in a car accident.

[00:02:57] Greg: November of 2022 crashed my car. so living in L. A. as you know, without a car for over a year is tough. dating without a car is even harder. so it's just the, from a masculine standpoint, the standard mentality of like the guy supposed to be able to go pick up the girl for dates and, be able to, provide if you think about the old school mentality of that.

[00:03:21] Greg: So. it's a little harder to like, all right, I take public transportation. you try and date, you take a lot of Ubers, but like, it's hard to, all right, I want to go pick up this girl. I want to go do something. You really can't do it. it makes it a little harder to deal with. So, that is the current scope Of my life and very small piece of it, but we can dissect that

[00:03:40] Hector: it's a real thing, right? And society would tell you that, oh, Greg, you're just being ridiculous. It's in your head. It's 2024. there's no stereotypes. The man doesn't have to pick up the woman, of course. Like, you could say all these things, but then there's also the reality.

[00:03:57] Hector: Too and it's like well, no, there's something very there's something very masculine about driving there's kind of the stereotype about like, oh women drivers are bad and it's like well They've only been doing it for x amount of years I mean, I can't imagine there was a ton of women chariot riders back in the roman empire You know what?

[00:04:15] Hector: I mean? Like I can't imagine there was a ton of women camel riders back in the day Of course, there were some women who rode horses and and those sorts of things but generally it's like so all of that to say, like, okay, let's give them a break. but I think like we can't ignore some of those things and pretend like, Oh, no, all of that stuff doesn't matter at all.

[00:04:34] Hector: Cause it does.

[00:04:36] Greg: I won't even touch the history of things, but I mean there is truth to it, but like it's more of like Just being having the freedom of going like, all right I want to go and pick this person up or They're coming to me to the balance and reciprocity of going like, all right If they come here and they pick me up great Like I want to be able to feel like I can go and pick them up or I can go and stop along Thank My way to their place and like, all right, I'm going to go pick something up and then bring it over there.

[00:05:02] Greg: you start getting used to, online delivery and, it's not the same where you're like, all right, I want to surprise you. And I can't tell you where we're going, but I need you to drive. And I'm just going to tell you where we're going. Like there's something the freedom of having a car to go and do those things.

[00:05:18] Greg: and in the dating scene, it's, it just makes it harder. It's not even like, am I not datable because I don't have a card? No, it just makes it incredibly more difficult and therefore there's more pressure on the relationship, which we already know there's so many pressures already within relationships and communication and so forth.

[00:05:35] Greg: So, there's just one more factor that you have to navigate.

[00:05:38] Hector: Yeah. are you okay sharing your, insights or your observations on the dating world? I mean, we're roughly the same age generally, but I just, being out of it for, for eight some odd years, I just, It seems like a totally different, a foreign world, It just seems like a totally different world.

[00:05:57] Hector: And I'm, curious for you, what your perspective might be, even looking from the outside from it, I don't, you know, how you kind of feel from it, but take us into that if you're comfortable.

[00:06:08] Greg: I mean, look, I, uh, Wednesday just ended a relationship. So, uh, was dating and now I guess I will be back into it, but I'm going to take a break and a pause from it, for many reasons. But part of it is actually the, difficulty of trying to do that without a car. I Ubered a lot, spent a lot of money on Uber, but it was also, even she said I'm used to my guy doing this and like, well.

[00:06:31] Greg: You can't do that. So we just have to lean to the discomfort of trying to make this happen. so when there's a societal norm, but also an individual, right? So it couldn't have been just a female saying that. She could have just been like, This is what I'm used to. Could be another person saying like, I'm not used to that.

[00:06:48] Greg: I'm used to picking my guy up or whatever the case may be. Like, It was just the situation that I was in, but also you feel that from a male standpoint of like, I wish I had a car right now so I can go do some of the things that I really would love to do. I am comfortable having a drink or two and driving.

[00:07:05] Greg: I'm not intoxicated. My blood level is fine. I'm not advocating drinking and driving, but like, it's not even buzz. Like I can have a glass, some other people are like, no drinking, no driving. That's the hard rule. I'm like, Hmm, I'm not buzz driving. I'm not drunk driving. I'm under the legal limit. I'm okay.

[00:07:21] Greg: One drink, three hours. But if you're dating someone who's of the opposite, then you're like, well. Now we're really spending the money we're Ubering. Cause that's the only opportunity we have. You're also then limited as the cost of things have gone up overall from inflation, since COVID so much things have risen in costs.

[00:07:37] Greg: it just adds more discomfort, pressure,

[00:07:42] Hector: Yeah. and perhaps I think part of the issue that it seems to be is that no one wants to give credence to the challenge. They want to kind of pretend like, it's not there or what are you complaining about sort of thing, right? But we hear the statistics I don't remember what the numbers are, but it's some absurd number where, you know, 70 percent of men are scared to approach women. Whereas something like this equal amount of women expect men to make the first move, right? But then the equally amount of women find Men approaching them creepy.

[00:08:16] Hector: And so we're just living in this paradoxical world where men There's all these constraints placed upon them without anyone acknowledging any of those constraints and then being like, well, you know buck up son

[00:08:27] Greg: I think it's, uh, you bring up two points. So one, I've got a, friend of mine she's like, Greg, get over it. I didn't have a car and it didn't stop me from dating my now husband. I'm like, hold on, that's reverse. So you didn't have the issue with it because he had the car. So. I think the gender roles here you're describing have nothing to do with it.

[00:08:48] Greg: It's, he was okay picking you up and you were just okay just sitting around. Well, it's a little harder for me in that regards. well, I was kind of getting to the fact that Men have this challenge that's in front of them. They have this foe, this beast, this, there's a new battlefield, a new landscape to which we're kind of a new game, new rules of which we're playing, but no one's acknowledged that board has shifted.

[00:09:11] Hector: And not only that, but also guys haven't been equipped with the skills to then now thrive in that sort of world. We're at, we're kind of in this world where we're asked to be chivalrous, But chivalrous is also associated with it's negative like there's there's no winning it's like for guys

[00:09:28] Greg: and I remember what the second piece, but yeah, it's chivalrous. It's like, all right, knight in shining armor. And That's now a bad thing because girls don't want to be rescued and so forth. so I see where you're going there The second one is is so I have a friend who posted on her instagram?

[00:09:42] Greg: She was at the light, walking and this guy attractive guy she said approached her and it's like where are you going? So they start walking and talking and she's like well I asked him like, aren't you going to ask for my number? And he was taken aback of it. It's like, well, aren't you aggressive? And I was thinking about that.

[00:09:56] Greg: As she said, then I'm like, hold on. If the tables were turned here and the guy's like, say, oh, can I have your number? That'd be okay. But the fact that she's like, aren't you going to ask for my number? He was taken back on it. It's like, all right. All of a sudden he felt his masculinity kind of pulled. Like she's asking for mine or she's making me ask for her number type deal.

[00:10:15] Greg: I thought it was really interesting scenario. Cause it's like. You damned if you do damned if you don't you really can't win, but it also comes down to the individual So you're like great the way I read This is wasn't meant to be if she was like, I think you're cute. We're having a good conversation You're gonna ask for my number and he's like what no then it's like Is that the really the kind of guy that you would want?

[00:10:35] Greg: And then you can go deeper to kind of what you're pointing out. It's like we're not equipped for these things So if I was better equipped maybe like yeah, I will ask for your number and that's okay that you're kind of Being aggressive, as she said, and asking for, yeah, I would love to talk to you.

[00:10:51] Greg: But we're not equipped. I don't think the societal component of so many things have changed. no one's talking about it

[00:10:57] Hector: Well, it's like it's happening at a lot of levels in the sense of guys are looking for their place Like period and then you can expand that and say looking for their place at home at work in relationships they're looking for their place because for the longest time, our role was to go out and kind of be the breadwinners, and provide, we can kind of talk about the protection part of it, which I think is, perhaps coming behind it.

[00:11:24] Hector: But like, now, all of a sudden, women have rightfully been empowered to go out there and get the bag and have the career and all that sort of stuff, which they should be able to. and they absolutely I think it's a, it's a necessary evolution. Yeah. But to that end, men have to figure out, well, if, my role is not to make the money, how do I still provide?

[00:11:45] Hector: How do I still protect an environment where money is not, is not the dictator of that provision. and similarly in relationships, that same sort of question has to be answered. Okay. And if I'm being honest, I think it also has to be allowed and accepted from both sides as well.

[00:12:04] Greg: Allowed and accepted. I would definitely agree. It's a hard one. Especially from our generation where we were raised, parents of the 50s and 60s and what was normal in that regards I came from a standard household, you know, both parents worked, but my mom was a teacher. My dad was an accountant so she Basically raised us in the sense that she was home after school where my dad came home later.

[00:12:27] Greg: So they both took their turns in terms of printing, but like I saw, all right, dad is doing this. Mom is doing this. She cooked, cleaned and did your standard female household, work and that generation. and now it's, it's changed, but we also now have the ability to have those conversations going like. Why? I mean, what is it? Most people in relationships do what they did based on the first time they've done it. Meaning, if I cooked for you and you cleaned, that all of a sudden became a responsibility as opposed to actually having a conversation like, Honey, do the cleaning part? Would you rather cook?

[00:13:02] Greg: How do you want to balance this? No one's having those conversations. No one's actually Opening themselves up to have what feels comfortable. What are my wants? What are my needs? What is right? What is wrong? What is a balance? that's why I love Esther Perel and kind of what she talks about and then Brene Brown and her whole thing It's like I am at 50 percent energy right now I need you to pick me up and it has nothing to do with genders.

[00:13:25] Greg: It's just a matter of how do we communicate better?

[00:13:28] Hector: Yeah. Well this idea of you know being 50 50 or Don't think it has to be based on gender right in terms of These roles don't have to be fulfilled by it by a certain person But I but I think that the conversations need to happen around you what are the implications of these things?

[00:13:49] Hector: What are the downstream sort of implications of where this sort of thing ends up? Because, I've mentioned it a lot and I see, I think I have some processing to do with it. But there's this song that daughter, you know, heard that says, I don't need a man. And But it's also, it's kind of infuriating because for me, it

[00:14:14] Hector: eliminates, like, I see that for my son. It eliminates the need and the ability for him to be in relationship, That, if you're not allowing somebody to support or help give or love or whatever it is, I mean, I think that there's something that you're missing from life.

[00:14:30] Hector: And that the, I need a puppy route just leads to being alone. that's the only place that that sort of mindset leads to. And that's what I'm afraid of. And we see these statistics about, I don't know what it is. I've probably shouldn't, shouldn't know my stats more, but absurd number of women are, over the age of 40 and unmarried and that, that new number is going to grow.

[00:14:52] Hector: And it's going to be, you know, over half of women by, you know, 20th, whatever the number is, but that it's not trending in the right direction and the problem that I see is that guys are a lot of guys are just sitting there and go well I'll just watch porn all day or I'll just subscribe to Olin fans or I'll just Pay, you know hooker like whatever they decide that they do They just opt out of the fight because it's Too hard or they feel like they can't win.

[00:15:19] Greg: I got two points. Let's go back to your, daughter's song. I don't need a man. I need a puppy. What I interpret that is is you're right. You don't need a man. I want a man. I don't need that now is. the right mentality. The mentality before was I needed a man. I needed a man. It was more of a financial responsibility.

[00:15:41] Greg: I needed a man to take care of me. I needed a man for this. And now the song is like, I don't need a man. You're right. This is great. That is a empowering song for both genders, male and female in that regards. It's like, you're right. Now we can actually start focusing on ourselves and going, I want a person who does this.

[00:15:59] Greg: I need a person who fits my needs in these regards. Now you can have the conversation not about, I need a man. I need a man who does this, who looks like this. I don't need a man in terms of protection. I don't need a man for these things. That's where I think the song kind of goes. And it actually, if I look at it from your daughter's standpoint, it's a great thing.

[00:16:20] Greg: Honey. You don't need a man. You are strong enough to do these things, son. You don't need a woman. And you have to know that a woman doesn't need you. This is why both of you need to do. All these things from a, emotional standpoint, from a skill standpoint, from just a respect of yourself standpoint, so that when you do come to find whatever your gender choice of partner is, you are in alignment and there's respect there.

[00:16:46] Hector: Yeah You bring up such a good point because I feel like there's so much healing that's necessary at least in like for most adults, they kind of go through life unconscious and unaware of trauma and the trauma wounds that are kind of, holding them back I'm slowly realizing more and more is that a lot of the relationships with the people that we're drawn to are based in that trauma and that You know when we start on that journey and we start that healing That now all of a sudden we're in the middle of that journey and we're meeting Other people in the midst of their healing journey wherever they're at on it and that creates very Diverse circumstances.

[00:17:25] Hector: It's just who knows what can happen in that sort of environment, right? It's just so many variables that are involved, hoping that it'll work out, right? I just think requires a lot of, faith, but I'm sure that it can and will and does all the time But you're relying on a lot of things to go right.

[00:17:41] Greg: So let's go back to, let's take that and go back to the second point that I didn't touch on about, 40 year olds and not being married and so forth. Like I'm 41, newly single and I've got a lot of friends that are in the same boat as me. And then we take the second part of this that you just brought up, like the healing we've been caught, we've been talking about it, it gets harder as we get older because we have more baggage, more trauma that we're trying to work through.

[00:18:05] Greg: And when we look at our parents who are married in their early twenties, it's like they were still figuring out their identity. There was less trauma there. and it was just part of the generation. Let's go do it. So there's something to be said about meeting your significant other at a younger age when you're still, , malleable and it gets harder now as I'm older and going like, all right, I'm either stuck in my ways or I'm doing all this healing of past trauma.

[00:18:30] Greg: I didn't know about. So how do I go find someone that's in a similar place or can accept me from where I am? Because. We all know we've got past trauma. We all got, we all come in with baggage. As I get older, the baggage becomes more. Hopefully I'm working on the healing side of things so that I'm actually a better partner, not only to myself, but to the person I get to be with.

[00:18:50] Greg: But like, yeah, I think those are both significant points to touch on,

[00:18:54] Hector: Yeah, what I don't think was as much, and maybe it's not even as much of the lexicon now, but is this need for like self healing or I think this thing kind of emerges out of broken relationships that it was the other person's fault For as long as I can remember, it was very rare for someone take ownership or to take accountability in their actions for the demise of the relationship.

[00:19:23] Hector: It was always their fault, their fault, their fault. But I'm encouraged now because more and more I'm seeing people talk about the need to Take responsibility and look inward and go, well, like, what did you bring to it? How did you contribute it? how are you showing up that contributed to this as opposed to just being, well, they did that.

[00:19:41] Hector: And that's why they're the bad guy, more and more. I'm seeing people wake up to the fact that there's no bad guy and no good guy, to your point, though, it's just a challenge. in a very complex, busy digital world to find someone who's at similar stage in that journey.

[00:19:57] Hector: And perhaps that's just the next thing to, you know, the next domino to fall for people is to, is to figure out how to find those people who are, like you said, we'll accept them or or accepting of those paths and journeys.

[00:20:10] Greg: or it's willing to work on it. I think we're, we're to some regards, We're leaning into discomfort more in some regards, if we think about, Certain mentalities that are going on. We want the old world back and That becomes a little of a challenge, but those that want the old world back great You'll stay in that kind of environment and we'll see where that goes and those like myself are like, you know What let's lean into the discomfort.

[00:20:35] Greg: let's go try dating without a car. Let's be open and honest and vulnerable and share things that you may not because you're okay with that. and you'll see the insecurities, like, there's so much insecurity. Can we accept that? And go, great. I feel the insecure energy, but I'm strong enough, or I have the skills enough, or I'm going to meet your insecurity with curiosity.

[00:20:59] Greg: And then how do I calm you? How do I make this feel better? that is on both sides, not just male female, but I think both sides can work on that. That is historically not been something men have. Been focused on, our emotional needs were usually responded and taking care of from a female standpoint.

[00:21:16] Greg: I feel we are entering a place where it's, you said, as we're healing, that there is more of the hold on. I can now be that for my partner, which is what I'm used to. my partner being for me.

[00:21:28] Hector: Yeah, and I think that most generation of men didn't have the time to sit there and work through and undo that trauma they were going through traumatic stuff. was ongoing It was wars. It was famine It was depressions. It was as men have it so relatively speaking, cushy these days that, perhaps now is the right time for that, revolution to have started.

[00:21:52] Hector: That now is the time for it. and it's a good, it's a good evolution. There's this balance though, you know, I've been, I don't know if you're writing them or you have some ghost writer writing them or something, but you've been putting some poems on social media and it's just, it's cool to see, and that's one of the reasons I wanted to have you come on that like cool to see someone like you who has kind of a public facing profile be comfortable enough to share, vulnerability and in a way that You know, some people 10, 15, 20 years ago would have judged or might've, you know, thrown into a basket with a bunch of other, criticisms and judgments and such.

[00:22:32] Hector: So, where did that come from? Or what kind of made that seem to be something that you kind of have leaned into as of late?

[00:22:37] Greg: Yeah, I guess let's take a step back. I crashed. I was in a state of depression in 2022. that I didn't want to be here anymore. I truly just did not want to I was dating a girl at the time and, through our breakup, the last thing she did is she helped me get into a rehab program.

[00:22:58] Greg: So I was actually able to get the support and assistance I needed. And then, Through that rehab program was able to reprogram my mind, go through the past traumas, go through all the negative core beliefs that I've been, living with and my mind, not the expectations that others around me had, but those were the filters I put on things.

[00:23:19] Greg: So as a result, like I entered, I left the program, graduated December, like basically the new year of knew what gratitude was. I never knew what gratitude. I struggled. I came from a. Male household, love my dad, rest in peace, but like angry, happy, sad, were the three emotions I knew, the standard from that generation.

[00:23:39] Greg: So, to date someone and go like, I want to know how you're feeling. I didn't, you know what? I'm angry. You know what? I'm happy. You know what? I'm sad. And we can add the fourth one. You know what? I'm hungry, right? That bring in the joke of that standpoint. But I had no clue until I went through this program.

[00:23:51] Greg: Like, wow, I understand my identity now. I understand what's my identity versus what my parents wanted or society wanted me. I'm allowed to do and have the ability to speak up for myself, which as a kid you didn't. and so that became perpetual thing. to answer your question.

[00:24:07] Greg: So when the program, I documented daily through my Instagram. My program. I every day would be like key learnings of the day. No one knew I was in a program. I had people that were responding. They're like, Oh, like, sounds like Greg's just doing some healing work here, right? Like, no one actually reached out.

[00:24:26] Greg: The few that did, they're like, Are you okay? And it was the weirdest thing to go like, you're not even that close to me. You saw what I was posting and you took the time to reach out. so I documented all it is literally in my Instagram. I saved them all so that if I ever wanted to go back and relearn what was I learning in that program, what I learned those days.

[00:24:46] Greg: And so that's kind of where the poem started from. Because then I start feeling comfortable. I'm like, I can talk about my emotions. Now I can share how am I feeling? in the family, I always liked writing poems. I'm just not a poetic person. So I'll write the cards, but for me, it was. the birth of ChetGBT.

[00:25:04] Greg: So now I'm able to go to ChetGBT, full disclosure. Like, I'm like, write me a poem. These are my themes. This is how I'm feeling. This is what I'm thinking. If you ask me to write that into a poetic way, I wish I was a songwriter. I always would love to do that as a kid. I thought about writing poems. I'm just not a writer.

[00:25:24] Greg: I'm a talker. At the day, that's what I do. So if this is how I'm feeling, this was now my outlet. The continuation of my program going like, hey, This is how I'm feeling every day. Every Friday, I put that poem out there and go like, this is what I'm feeling this week, like this past week or this past Friday was an incredibly tough week.

[00:25:43] Greg: And my poem spoke to that. So I am now allowing myself to, to connect people like, I love your poems. Great. But like, it's more about the words less about, I wrote a poem. It's more about I'm being vulnerable and showing with you, the joys, the happiness and the sadness that I'm going through. because I understand how that can connect with other people and bring in the human element to things.

[00:26:06] Greg: Cause it helped me.

[00:26:07] Hector: Yeah.

[00:26:09] Greg: That's a lot. I know. Sorry for the monologue.

[00:26:11] Hector: Well, I just think there's a lot there, but what I'm grateful for is that it's okay. You know, it's okay to express that, and that there, of course, there are going to be people who, Judge and critique it, but like you said, there's going to be people that it connects with and that it resonates with and, I mentioned it before We started recording that I'm recording right now with a breath strip like a nose, strip on And this is my second recording of the day but before I started my first one there was this thought to me that said, you should take it off because You know, someone's gonna say something And I can't tell you how many times I've done that in my life and listened to that voice and done something not done something because of what I thought someone would say or what someone would think Part of the challenge for me now is that I have to catch that voice quick enough because if I don't catch it it happens so quickly.

[00:27:06] Hector: It's so insidious that sometimes I don't even realize that I'm not doing something because I don't want to upset somebody or because of somebody else or because of something else and this active intentional doing things for me is actually really foreign because everything was for my parents or my teachers or for the kids or for You know, my partner or whatever, instead of like, well, what do I need to do for me?

[00:27:33] Hector: And feeling like, okay, doing things for me was a, big journey. And I think it's just, it's kind of speaking a little bit to that.

[00:27:41] Greg: Now, I mean, wearing a hoodie and a t shirt. I was someone else, maybe I'd go put on a button down and like, all right, I'm doing a podcast recording. I got to make sure like I look presentable and so forth. Mike. This is who I am. This is how I feel comfortable. Like this is me. And so if, the, the thoughts in my mind are like, well, maybe I'll never get the speaking engagements or never.

[00:28:03] Greg: I'll get the big stage because someone else is all more professional versus myself. And I'm like, No, like they're going to want me because of what we have to say. You're going to be successful because of who you are. And that's just going to create the deeper connections. So, it goes back to the healing piece.

[00:28:17] Greg: Like as we're healing, you will attract like minded souls. Or in some cases as you're healing, you'll track the broken person. Cause they're like, Oh, I want this, but like, you're still broken yourself. So like there's options to attract, there's attractions there, but like, you just gotta be who you are.

[00:28:33] Greg: And, Popeye, you know, I am who I am. that's what made him great.

[00:28:37] Hector: that's been such so hard for me. And I realized in like that. worn so many masks my whole life. I, went to Catholic and private school and like did everything I could to not get in trouble and color within the lines and be the, goody two shoes or whatever it was, only to realize that sort of mentality or mindset would be like crippling in my adult ages that, A, those people don't matter.

[00:29:01] Hector: those people really didn't care. and then when you get into real life and you have to start. creating your own way, that it's not even if you're not used to it, even before you get used to it, if you're not comfortable with it, then it's very easy to do someone else's agenda, or get caught up trying to appease someone else, or get caught up doing things Because you think, once again, someone else, of what someone else is going to say or do.

[00:29:26] Hector: and so much of, my journey as a man has just been like, trying to figure out, what do I actually want? and then getting myself to go out and commit to do that. And like, just that journey alone has been, a lifetime's worth, Frank.

[00:29:41] Greg: Oh, it took me three months in a rehab program to reprogram that and go like, wow, on day one, I was talking to a friend of mine, day one was an identity map and like, Literally putting on, how do you identify and seeing all the words and the, actions that are, you're associated with yourself and going like, wow, that was really cruel on B you're so much more than that.

[00:30:04] Greg: And so being able to shift your mindset to go, I am so much more than what those words were and, coming out of it with a positive mindset. So, yeah, it is a hard thing to reprogram, especially when you're used to doing certain things or there's a discomfort in it. I can't talk back or I can't speak up or, you think about the stereotypical, like, females who've been silenced because they were told they were bossy if they actually spoke up, but if it was a male, they're being assertive, like those whole gender roles and it's like, all right, we're trying to reprogram not only as a society, but also individually, like, No, I can do this.

[00:30:37] Greg: I can speak up. I can wear a no strip. I can wear a hoodie. I can be who I am and be accepted and accept myself.

[00:30:46] Hector: Right. That's the hard, I don't know if it's the hardest part, but for me, that was the breaking point was like, do I accept myself? Because underneath all of the other judgment, underneath all of the hardship or pain was really just a rejection of myself. that when, my biggest wounds would flare up, you know, for me, it was like, abandonment, betrayal, like whenever those kind of wounds would flare up, it was always because I abandoned myself and I betrayed my own boundaries.

[00:31:14] Hector: And you know, I abandoned, you know, I wasn't giving my own self, the love and validation that I like, it was always myself. and it was just reflected in other people. that's here we are. So, This has been really fun, Greg. I got one more question for you, but before we get out of here, people want to get more connected with you, stay in touch with you.

[00:31:31] Hector: Where's the best place to do that?

[00:31:32] Greg: at this present moment, LinkedIn, this is where I post. it's weird that you guys have started following me on Instagram and I'm like, This is weird to have people in the work world in a sense, which we now, I mean, we text. So like there's a friendship building here, but it's just weird that like people follow me on, Instagram.

[00:31:51] Greg: Cause like, I don't post, I do stories, but like my business life, my real life in most regards is, is LinkedIn. So Greg Wasserman is the easiest way.

[00:32:00] Hector: Cool. We'll link that up as well. And last question for you, Greg, in your opinion, what does, modern masculinity mean to you?

[00:32:07] Greg: I don't think we know, yeah, I don't know. Modern masculinity to me is in a sense being comfortable with discomfort, being comfortable with, a society that is moving in many directions and being okay to go like what it was is not going to be, it was not suitable.

[00:32:27] Greg: So let's accept, it's okay for me to feel it's okay for me to be. Vulnerable. It's okay for me to feel it is okay to also have these feelings of like, I don't have a car. So how do I go and do things that would normally be? It's like, all right, how do I lean into this discomfort and accept there is no known, in every person that you come across?

[00:32:50] Greg: May or may not agree with it. So it goes back to do what feels right to you and feeling comfortable for you. that's kind of where I would go, but yeah, I guess I need to do a better job of thinking through modern masculinity.

[00:33:03] Hector: Well, it was a great conversation, Greg, and I think you talked some good stuff here. Fellas, I want to thank you for sticking with us. We appreciate you being here. If you made it this far, we would love and be forever grateful for a rating or review wherever you get your podcasts. And if you know a guy who needs to hear this, hit that share button, send him a message, let him know you were thinking about him.

[00:33:21] Hector: And as always, we appreciate you being here. We'll see on the next one later.