Navigating Success: The Journey of K2 Transportation with William (Bill) McGinnis and Jim Gussman

[00:00:03] Hector: Hello and welcome to another episode of the how to scale a business podcast. My name is Hector Santhia Esteban and I am your host and today we're here with Bill Harper. He is the CEO and chief creative officer at brand boss and , we're going to talk about story. and narrative. And we are going to talk about, how to put it together sharing with him a little bit before that.

[00:00:22] Hector: I would like to say that I come from this world, but there are people do it much better and have a much more articulate way putting things together a cohesive way that becomes a brand. And Bill, that's why you're here

[00:00:33] Hector: We were also talking a little bit before that, there are a lot coaches and consultants and it's great that everybody can get into that space these days. The gatekeepers are gone. But, you've had the privilege and I hope maybe you look at it that way of building a variety of different businesses, having different ones that can be scaled to a variety of different capacities.

[00:00:50] Hector: Take us through whatever kind of opportunities. parts of that journey that you feel is relevant to what you're doing now. And then a little bit about what brand boss does for your clients

[00:00:59] Bill: each of my businesses has been focused around helping businesses scale. so all of them come from the marketing branding world and The wake of the internet and what it did to marketing, there's been tremendous confusion around how to tell a cohesive story and as such businesses don't and they underperform because of it.

[00:01:20] Bill: So every business rare exception is sitting around its boardroom saying we want scale, we want growth, make us bigger and then they lean on sales or they lean on innovation or they lean on marketing and they say. whip, go make it happen, go make it happen. And these teams have a tendency to rely on the same things, pricing, promotion, innovation, history, ingredients, whatever, but nobody cares about a blender that has five speeds instead of three speeds or one that has a quick release lid for easy cleaning.

[00:01:53] Bill: And yet businesses think that's what this is all about. And they're like, you can get it this weekend only. For 60 percent off or whatever, and hurry down to go do it. But none of that is ownable and none of that's getting them to a place where people care about the brand at all. And so the thing that I'm all hot to trot about is helping businesses understand that if you want to become the Apple or the Nike or the liquid death or the dollar shape club of your category, you've got to tell a story that puts the target group's values first.

[00:02:26] Bill: And that's not something that MBA programs teach. And so business leaders really have very little exposure to what the heck I'm talking about. And, as marketing got fragmented,people now have a video agency, and they have a social agency, and they have an SEO, SEM agency, and they have a website dev agency, and then, such and such,.

[00:02:46] Bill: None of these groups is talking, and none of them has been given a brand that's cohesive in any way. And so each of them is left to interpret the brand through their particular lens. And as such, businesses drop down into becoming a commodity, where all that matters is price, availability, and what's new.

[00:03:04] Bill: And when you do that Your value is about as low as it can be. So my businesses have all been focused on helping companies understand what that difference is so that they can actually take a leadership position within their category and create a real and meaningful point of difference, between them and their competitors for the people who buy from them.

[00:03:24] Hector: , it's interesting that you talk about features and levers and speeds and such. And I came in out of the direct sales world there was a whole day to learn all of the features and it was pages and pages that we were supposed to spit out to customers, which interesting is that as the.

[00:03:40] Hector: Information has come out on the Internet has become this thing. Features have become less important. And this brand, the story, the relationship , the connection to the customer all of a sudden, has become to the forefront.

[00:03:54] Bill: it's funny, that was always the case. if you look back historically, that's what Bill Bernbach and David Ogilvie and Leo Burnett, we're all talking about way back in the day. It was the development of a story. It wasn't, camel was, Toasted or whatever, and the stories were simple back then right up until, the Volkswagen lemon or think small or whatever, like that was the big turning point, right?

[00:04:17] Bill: It was in that late forties, early fifties when this idea of a concept really came out, one of the first spots I ever saw was in black and white and was so awful. You could hardly follow it. It wasn't even 30 seconds. Exactly. Because they didn't really have that limitation back then.

[00:04:32] Bill: And it was a picture of a Volkswagen driving through this deep snow, and it was a simple voiceover that said, did you ever wonder? What car the guy that drives the totra or the plow snow plow drives to get to the snow plow? It was this little Volkswagen bug like driving through snow all the way up to the window tops And it was this story about well, how does the guy get to the plow so that the rest of us can drive?

[00:04:55] Bill: And here was this great commercial that told that story, and they didn't talk about how many cc's it was, and they didn't talk about how fast it went, and they didn't talk about how safe it was, they just asked a question that people would ask, How does the guy that drives the plow get to the plow?

[00:05:12] Bill: Oh, he drives a Volkswagen because it's, balanced well enough that it can get through the snow and not get stuck. Oh, that's cool. I didn't know that and that's interesting and people watch and read and listen to stuff that's interesting. And if it's not, they don't and nobody cares about those features and benefits that they asked you to waste an entire day learning.

[00:05:33] Bill: They would have done so much better to give you a copy of how to win friends and influence people and teach you how to ask questions. Have they done that? you would have been infinitely more successful at your conversion rate because the thing you would have done would have been gone out to understand what they were searching for.

[00:05:51] Bill: Why were they in the market in the first place? That's all that anybody cares about. Do you think anybody cares about me or my agency? No way, shape or form, do they? They only talk to me if they think that what I do or bring to the table can help them accelerate towards their goal. And that's true for every business.

[00:06:08] Bill: we only buy things that we think will help us achieve something or will help make something go away. That's all that marketing can do. And sales as well. So the more we're able to understand what that need is and be able to articulate it back to show that we understand it, the better.

[00:06:25] Hector: A lot of business owners,early stage founders is that they're very close to their product or service and They're hyper technical, and they get really geeky sometimes about it, you mentioned it a little bit with the Volkswagen, The people were too close to, something that was so seemingly obvious that they couldn't see that all of a sudden you start telling the story about that.

[00:06:46] Hector: And that kind of changed it for them. Is there anything that comes to mind in that regard?

[00:06:50] Bill: Every business I've ever stood in front of, because the thing is that you lose objectivity , when you're on a leadership team, because your paycheck is beholden to it and the team you're working with thinks and talks about it all the time because you're together for that purpose. So business exists to make money.

[00:07:07] Bill: And when company leaders come together, they're all focused on the mousetrap. So that thing that excites you internally. that's the big challenge, right? Over here, you have this thing that excites you as a group. And then you've got this need that these people have over here, which is the thing that's going to excite them.

[00:07:25] Bill: The question is, can you bridge? Can you say something about what gets you all hot and bothered that also makes sense to the other people? And that typically is in how you phrase it. for instance,we talk about, Las Vegas, right? The thing that makes Las Vegas work is that it's a place to send safely, right?

[00:07:44] Bill: So the whole thing of the leadership team there is what things can we do that you can do here that you couldn't do anywhere else and you can get away with it because we want people to fly in on Thursday with a pocket full of cash and we want them to leave on Sunday. Broke and hungover, but with an amazing story to tell.

[00:08:01] Bill: Now, if they went out and they told the world, we're a place where you can send safely, eh, so what? But instead, the promise is, what happens here stays here. And see, that has the allure of possibility. Now all of a sudden the question is, how big a story can I have when I'm in Vegas, right? Now it's not just that it's a place where I can send safely, that's a description.

[00:08:23] Bill: And that is the thing that drives the people internally. But the people externally are looking for the greatest story I'll ever experience. The greatest story I'll ever be able to tell. And that's why Vegas wins. Because when you go there, you don't know what's gonna happen. You just know that it's gonna be okay when it's over.

[00:08:44] Bill: That's the beauty of it. So who knows what's going to happen at Vegas? And that's why what happens here, stays here, resonates so hard. The flip side of that in Disney is we recapture the magic of childhood. Now, you can say that to people, but that isn't going to mean a whole lot. So the internal team is looking at what can we do that will make people's eyes pop open like they were eight year old, eight years old seeing Mickey for the first time again.

[00:09:08] Bill: on the outside, the promise is the happiest place on earth because that's the promise. So that relationship between the thing that really excites the internal team and the thing that really excites the external audience is, that is the magic. Everything after that is simple, the purchase of media, while not minimizing the efforts of media planning and placement.

[00:09:28] Bill: Now we understand what people value. It's about finding where those behavior sets go. Where do those psychographic profiles spend their time, et cetera. Like it's all very guided beyond that. But that magic moment is really in its initial phase and the development of the strategy that says, this is what excited this group.

[00:09:48] Bill: How can we. Interpret that so that the outside group is equally excited. ,

[00:09:52] Hector: I'm curious if there is A blueprint, a set of steps, a recipe, order of operations, that you have. And we're going to answer that question right when we get back from break.

[00:10:02] Hector: Hey, y'all, thanks for tuning in today. Today's episode is brought to you by Amplify Media and we are a content and podcast production company. we like to think of ourselves as genius creators because chances are you have a mission, a message, a passion, a purpose, something that you want to get out to the world, but don't necessarily have the time, the team or the tech skills to be able to do it.

[00:10:19] Hector: And so if that's you go to it. Amplify media dot com. That's A. M. P. L. A. F. Y. Media dot com. You can also check the show notes for info. And with that, let's get back to today's episode. So Bill, I think that you stretched people's idea of what's possible when you tell a great story.

[00:10:37] Hector: And if I'm a listener. I'm thinking, yeah, Bill, that's great, but I'm not a Disney yet. I'm not a Nike. I'm not those ones , that you mentioned the kind of the Hallmark classics. so is it possible for, Bob's mechanic shop? , how do they start to tell their story? , is it even possible , to do those sorts of things?

[00:10:57] Bill: Absolutely. Every one of those businesses that I mentioned started out of the trunk of somebody's car, or in their garage, or sitting at their coffee table. Every one of them. And people forget that. People only see what's out there now. But take a look at Liquid Death. Liquid Death is in the middle of doing it now.

[00:11:12] Bill: They received rather, a hundred million dollar cash infusion. And I've just been granted 700 million valuation for putting water in a can. NOw there's nothing radically innovative or unique or different about that, except that they called their company liquid death and they promised to murder your thirst.

[00:11:32] Bill: That story can be done at any level. And this is one of the big things that I work with clients on is that they think, Oh, I'll start acting like Apple when I become Apple. no. Arnold Schwarzenegger became Arnold Schwarzenegger because he lifted every single day. That's how you become Arnold.

[00:11:47] Bill: Like you don't do it the other way around. You don't wake up as Apple one day. That doesn't accidentally happen. There were a lot of people that were involved in creating that. So there are tons of examples of groups that have done that on a small level and turned it around. Tom's Shoes is a great one.

[00:12:02] Bill: For every pair we sell, we give one away. That was a simple thing that people really got excited about, and that they followed, and that they supported. And the next thing you know, that company blew up. Poopery did the same thing. Dollar Shave Club. 30, 000 video or whatever it was. It wasn't very much money that he put out that basically said, stop being taken advantage of by groups like Gillette.

[00:12:26] Bill: You just, why are you paying $20 for a piece of plastic and a couple pieces of metal? Like it doesn't make any sense. You're paying for all of this excess that you don't need. Instead, pay a dollar and I'll make sure that you get a good shave. So there's plenty of room for people to do this. What they don't do is they don't trust, they don't believe that if they choose a thing.

[00:12:48] Bill: that people will come, but it's easier for people to choose you when they know what you stand for. And if you stand for everything, then you stand for nothing. Volvo stands for making safe cars. Now, are they going to get the performance people? No. Are they going to get the luxury people?

[00:13:05] Bill: No, they're going to get the people who value safety above all else. But that makes it easy for the people who choose safety to choose the brand. And that's exactly why, your one person guy or gal who's doing a business can be absolutely known for something. And they are. If you talk to somebody, Go ask your dad for a recommendation of somebody, or your mom for a recommendation of somebody.

[00:13:29] Bill: The person that they're going to recommend, they do blank really well. they're the go to person for this thing. And if you ask them questions why, you'll find out that there's some value at the back end of it. They don't waste my time. They do the job right the first time. They, tell me what to get and what not to get.

[00:13:47] Bill: And so they give me information that I need. Whatever. You'll find something behind it. That's the thing they stand for, even if they don't know how to articulate it that way through marketing.

[00:13:57] Hector: Is it ever too late to start looking for this story? let's start there

[00:14:02] Hector: now, There's a group of people , they're oblivious to this and they're still trying to focus on features and benefits.

[00:14:07] Hector: And then there are people who are trying to figure out their story, but then. They're missing or it's not hitting what do you see for those people who are trying, where is that gap in effectiveness happening?

[00:14:20] Bill: Yeah, so the first question, the answer to it is no. Geico is 80 or 100 years old when they totally and completely Dismantled and reconstructed the insurance industry forever. It was, you're in good hands with all state and we're state farm and we're lovely and we've been around forever. And it's very serious.

[00:14:38] Bill: We can never say anything. And along comes a well heeled lizard and some cave men, and they completely disrupted and restructured everything about the edutainment level. In that category, now you have flow from progressive and you've got mayhem and you've got farmers knows a few things because they've seen a few things and all the rest of it, and all of them followed suit because Geico crushed them.

[00:15:01] Bill: And it came out that nobody was paying attention to Geico. They were just, this little brand and this brand story came out and completely turned them around. And I've been a part of things that were like that for brands, not quite that old, but certainly. 48 year old when we worked with music and arts and what we did to help them before they sold the guitar center.

[00:15:20] Bill: These were radical shifts in how they marketed to people and what they said and how they said it, and it had profound impact on their bottom line.

[00:15:27] Hector: can I pry a little bit and it's half devil's advocate is there any connection between that was it that they were just really funny commercials?

[00:15:36] Hector: And is there any other, outside of, you Just being really funny, was there some deeper alignment that you thought that it connected to?

[00:15:44] Bill: Oh, absolutely. It was incredibly strategic work. All the good work is. So the whole idea on the front end but being a person that works in the category or in the industry, the idea was your time is worth money, right? 15 percent or more in 15 minutes or less.

[00:16:00] Bill: You individual, you're worth money. Your account is worth money. you should be saving money. We're going to do it and we're going to do it. And we're not going to waste your time. Okay, so there was this connection between these two concepts. And that 15 percent or more in 15 minutes or less has become household vocabulary.

[00:16:16] Bill: everybody knows Geico now. They wanted more people to switch, so they went out and they said, why aren't more people switching? some people thought it was hard. What do you mean hard?

[00:16:25] Bill: it's pain. I don't know who to call. I don't know what to do. It's going to take forever or whatever. no. It's so easy. A caveman could do it, right? , these were the early adopters who say, hey, I want to save 15 percent and I'm going to go do it.. And they brought on those people. And then was the little money stack with the eyeballs on top, that's bundling that's for the people who don't care about story.

[00:16:44] Bill: They just care about getting a good deal. No frills, no, nothing stack of money is what you get. Reliable is on top, looking right at you, waiting for you to make the deal. So they were incredibly strategic in terms of what they were trying to achieve.

[00:16:59] Hector: Yeah, what's great it's all pointing back to the same story, right? it's Saga 1, it's Saga 2, it just expanding on that narrative. this has been really good. Bill, given where the conversation went, is there anything else that you think is particularly relevant to what we talked about or things that, the listeners should also know about some of this

[00:17:17] Bill: I think you asked a really good question which was. what's in their way? If somebody is trying to build a brand today, where do they start? How do they do it? First off objectivity is a real problem because if you're in your business, you're not able to be super objective about it.

[00:17:33] Bill: You're going to continue to say the things that are important to you, which are going to be all the things. So you're limited in your point of view and being able to pick it out. You're going to have to find a good partner that can help you do it. I can't do it for my companies. I've owned five and every single time that I get to trying to build the brand message, I have to reach outside to somebody I trust and ask them because I'm too close to it.

[00:17:54] Bill: And that's the same problem that leadership teams have. Secondly. It has to come through the lens of what they value, right? It's so easy a caveman can do it has nothing to do with Geico. It has everything in the world to do with the fear that people have. Same thing with Dollar Shave Club. why are you paying for shave tech you don't need?

[00:18:12] Bill: They're not talking about themselves. They're asking a question of why are you behaving the way you're behaving? Stop and think about it for a minute. This takes the attention off of the brand and puts it on the individual, which is where it should be. What are they experiencing? Why are they looking for change?

[00:18:28] Bill: Why aren't they looking for change? The focus is really on them. The foremost important words in business are it's not about you. It never was. So the thing you do that you get excited about is wonderful, but that's not why they're buying. They have their own agendas and their own things. You need to be looking for the biggest pain point that you can speak to.

[00:18:48] Bill: And the last one is if you feel badly about the fact that you don't have this in your vocabulary or feel funny about it in some way, shape, or form, don't MBA programs, don't teach this. Harvard doesn't teach this, not in any meaningful way, not like this, because it's approached as an academic function of business.

[00:19:06] Bill: we have sales and we have marketing and marketing's job is to make sales easier . this whole process of understanding how to communicate with somebody else, where you put them first is not a part of our teaching. It's not a part of our society. It's not part of our shared experience.

[00:19:20] Bill: So it's a learned thing that you have to do later on. But once you've learned it, and once you've put it in place, there's literally no limit to how big you can grow because the relevance factor is appropriate. The people that come by, it would be like offering chocolate to somebody who, already loves chocolate.

[00:19:38] Bill: Of course they're going to be interested. They already love chocolate. That's the same thing you're doing here. You're saying, let me learn you enough. To understand what it is that motivates you. And then let me say my messaging that shows how well I understand why you have the motivation. That's what makes great brands.

[00:19:54] Bill: Great.

[00:19:54] Hector: that is a great wrap to today's episode. this has been a fantastic conversation, it's no secret why you're able help brands and businesses do exactly this. If people want to get more connected with you or find out what you guys do, where's the best place to go?

[00:20:08] Bill: So we've got two advertising agencies. One of them is brand boss, hq. com. That's for groups that are emerging companies, typically under 15 million that are looking for some support and then businesses that are 25 million to about 400 million, wmharper. com. And that's our full service agency.

[00:20:25] Hector: Awesome. We'll go get connected. Are you active anywhere on social bill?

[00:20:30] Bill: TikTok is the big place, which is at brand boss HQ.

[00:20:33] Hector: Very cool. I want to thank all of you listeners for sticking with us today, and we appreciate you being here. If you gained any value out of today, we'd love a rating or review wherever you get your podcast. And if you know someone who is in the midst of scaling their business or thinking about starting one, please send them this episode and go get connected with bill.

[00:20:50] Hector: And obviously, if you know someone who benefit from telling their own story, we'd go check out Bill's businesses and see how they might be able to serve you. Thanks as always for being a part of the tribe. We'll see on the next one. Later, y'all.