How Natalie Doyle Oldfield’s Trust-First Philosophy Overhauls Organizational Culture

[00:00:03] Hector: and welcome to another episode of the how to scale a business podcast. My name is Hector Santiesteban and I am your host for today.

[00:00:10] Hector: Our special guest is miss Natalie Doyle Oldfield and she is the author a brand new book called trusted and it's a way to keep clients around, get them to pay you more and be happy and excited about it. that's at least my spin that I took away from it. But Natalie, welcome to the show.

[00:00:26] Natale: Thanks for having me. It's exciting to be here, Hector.

[00:00:29] Hector: We're going to talk about the book and that's going to be a big focus of it, but I'd love for you to catch us up on your journey, your, sort of experience in your career. And then I'd love to know what was the impetus for the book and why you decided write it.

[00:00:42] Natale: Okay. Well, my journey started By working in a variety of different marketing and business, and sales roles in a variety of different it companies over about 25 years. And I did lots of different customer facing roles, product management, marketing communications. And then I was working for an it company that had software as a service.

[00:01:12] Natale: And, We had a variety of clients that I was in very close contact with in my role as vice president of marketing. And my contact was really around understanding what was important to these clients so that we could build and manage products for them that they wanted and that suited their needs.

[00:01:35] Natale: And while doing this, the CEO asked me if I would take over a sales role. And I, I was very happy in the marketing role, but fast forward, I took over the sales role, Hector. And then I was like, Oh my gosh, I don't know how to do this. I had never done sales in my life and the market crashed. It was 2008.

[00:02:00] Natale: So it was a long time ago, but it was, you know, one of the biggest financial crisis in a hundred years. So I had to figure out how to do this. And, I eventually, I asked lots of people, what should I do? What should I do? People that were really great in sales. And they said, just focus on the customer, focus on the customer.

[00:02:19] Natale: Well, I got so intrigued as to how people decide to buy Hector and what makes people tick and why some companies are successful and others aren't that I decided to go back to school and do my master's now in the middle of all this. The market rebounded. The team was focused so much on customers and providing them with any type of value we can and servicing them that our sales actually started increase and increasing and we actually gained market share.

[00:02:52] Natale: It was phenomenal. So part that I went back to school to answer this question and the research showed that it all comes down to trust. It's a multiplier for success, that when you have what I call, I coined this phrase while I was doing my research, trust equity, when you have high trust equity, Your sales go up, your number of referrals go up, the loyalty goes up, and it really does become a multiplier.

[00:03:26] Natale: Well, I got so excited about this research while working full time, Hector, that I actually Started teaching the framework that I built in academia, and then with my business hat on, I know. Okay. Well, what gets measured gets managed and my whole career. I would always have people saying, Okay, well, what's the return on investment?

[00:03:51] Natale: What's what? You know? What is going to be the return? So I actually created a measurement tool to measure a customer's trust in a company and that diagnostic I call the client trust index, and it measures, as I said, a company's trust equity. So all of this was happening. I was still working full time and then I started teaching people.

[00:04:14] Natale: This framework and this model of how to build trust with customers. And it was so successful for everyone that I taught, they became more trustworthy and then their sales went up or their number of referrals went up or the number of customer complaints decreased, or the number of leads that came in to the company were turning over.

[00:04:37] Natale: Into. So I got so excited that I decided to do this full time, Hector. And I actually wrote another book first called The Power of Trust, How Top Companies Build, Manage, and Protect It, in 2017. And that book, It really talks about the theoretical and the science behind how we decide to trust. And this new book that you asked me about, Trusted, the proven path to customer loyalty and business growth, is a very hands on practical guide for business owners and leaders and managers to build relationships of trust with customers the last part of your question was why did I write this?

[00:05:24] Natale: Well, I really wrote this as a guide so that people would Read these stories and see these real business problems that companies are facing and realize that they're all coming down to one issue and that is trust. So this book is a collection of real clients, real Live situations, the challenges that they were having and what they did to overcome them to become the most trusted in their industry and to increase their customer loyalty and business growth.

[00:06:02] Hector: Wow. Well, I'm excited to dig in today because I think I sort of made it a joking subtitle, about the book, but I think it's kind of right because. There's that old adage where there's only a few ways grow a business, You can get more customers, you can get your customers to pay you more. it's escaping me, but maybe you can fill it in, but there's essentially the loyalty part of it is often the, maybe almost ignored and props, the most fruitful. And so I guess if I'm getting to a question, I'm just really excited about the conversation. I have lots of questions, but I'm trying to pick the right one.

[00:06:36] Hector: My first one is when you come into organizations, are there common Issues or challenges that you see, or when you have the experience set that you have, are there common issues or, or maybe they're not so common, but things that people are doing, you know, needles in people's proverbial eyes, if you will, that you think that if they just pulled those out, man, how much things would get better.

[00:07:01] Natale: Yes. 100 percent Hector. So the needles in the haystack, the business problems that have a lack of trust at their core include things like fewer sales and lost business. Or if someone says, well, you know, we're just in sort of a bit of a slump right now, or we're just going through a difficult time.

[00:07:27] Natale: Increased complaints, either from clients externally and sometimes internally. another indicator that I see. Is, leads, new leads slipping away. So bring leads in and then they're not converting. So they're slipping away. you mentioned one of them already about loyalty. So a lack of repeat business and, starting from scratch or starting fresh every quarter.

[00:07:55] Natale: That's something I see. any types of problems with customer retention. Longer sales cycles, more difficult negotiations, or maybe, you know, you're in negotiations that are stressful because someone's saying, okay, well tell me exactly what the process is. And asking for details, so many details, fewer partnership opportunities.

[00:08:21] Natale: I mean, I could go on and on Hector, like all of these things are indicators of low customer trust.

[00:08:29] Natale: the other day someone asked me a similar question. I was doing a speech for a company. And all their employees were in the room someone raised their hand and asked a very similar question to you.

[00:08:42] Natale: And in the back of the room, I couldn't see because the lights were so bright, but someone said, What about if someone ghosts you? Yeah, that's another indicator. If they're not calling you back or return, like if there's a long lead time, they're not getting back to you. Or maybe. a customer takes a really long time to pay you.

[00:09:03] Natale: You send an invoice, and they don't pay it. that can be an indicator of low customer trust, or a signal, if you will, that there's something going on.

[00:09:13] Hector: yeah. I don't want to say it's like a panacea, but it's pretty close to it in the sense that it does fix. A lot of the issues. It does fix a lot of the challenges.

[00:09:24] Natale: It does, Hector. when you have high trust equity, it fixes so many challenges. I mean, if you think about a business, it doesn't matter what kind of business, every business has different times that they need trust equity, They need to have the trust of their customers and or their employees.

[00:09:47] Natale: But today let's just talk about customers so when, and if there is a challenge, that can be solved because they do have this. Trust equity built up and people are more forgiving if, if you have high trust, So if you think about that in your personal life, if you've got a great relationship with your neighbor.

[00:10:10] Natale: And you decide you're going to borrow a lawnmower from your neighbor. And you know that your neighbor won't mind because you do that all the time. But yet your neighbor's away and you think, Hmm, I wonder if they'd mind if I went into the shed since they're away and borrow the lawnmower. So you do that because you have high trust equity.

[00:10:34] Natale: Well, you didn't know that maybe they've got the alarm on. they're on vacation. And it means that all of a sudden the security company's calling and, and, and, well, if you have high trust equity, your neighbor knows, oh, it's just Hector. He's going to borrow the lawnmower. It's no big deal. But if you don't really have that strong of a relationship and they don't, you don't really have a relationship of trust, it becomes a big deal.

[00:11:05] Natale: Just like that's a personal story. But if you think about in business, if you miss a deadline or if you're selling, software or ABC type of product, and it doesn't function the way you said it would. When you have high trust equity, your customer's more forgiving versus, Hmm, you missed a deadline.

[00:11:29] Natale: What's going on? Or why didn't you show up or why didn't you tell us that it had this defect?

[00:11:35] Hector: yeah, it's such an important part of it, especially in today's economy, both from a B to B and a B to C space where there's so many options and people have, at least there is the. Perception of options and that people can go and shop or they can go and look or do research. And so the ability to separate yourself.

[00:11:59] Hector: I think that trust is probably the most differentiating sort of factor. I'm curious in your work or in your research. Are there any sort of stories that of like, whether it's big transformations or. things that you didn't see coming or, stories that really moved the needle for certain companies.

[00:12:19] Natale: Yes. Yes. And, when I was thinking about our conversation today, I was thinking, okay, well, the topic here is how to scale a business. when I listen to your show, I love getting ideas about how to scale a business. One of the stories that I wanted to share with you and your listeners today is this manufacturing company that I was working with.

[00:12:44] Natale: They called me to talk about the culture and the company. And they said, We just wish that everybody would be more customer focused. They didn't call me because they have a trust issue, Hector. They said, we want to make sure that everyone's more customer focused. So I said, okay, they really didn't feel like people were that attached to what they're doing and how it affects the customer.

[00:13:12] Natale: So we work through that and we measured the customer's trust in the company. So they got a trust equity score and it was, it was pretty good. However, the revenue and the customer retention levels were not reflecting. What they wanted, they weren't as high as what they wanted. So several folks in their company went through the trust mastery program.

[00:13:42] Natale: It's a program that I offer where we, you learn to build relationships of trust with customers. And they had project managers, a plant manager, people in production, account management, accounts receivable, and some people in sales in the program. And it was amazing. It was so great. There was one fellow in the program who, he did not have a customer facing role.

[00:14:11] Natale: Been with the company for a very long time, but really wanted to get more involved and wanted to help build the company. So in the program, he learned that. In order to connect with a customer, he had to really work on his listening and his skills to be more empathetic, Hector. And he just really never really thought about what it's like from the customer's perspective.

[00:14:41] Natale: So we went through the whole trust mastery program. And one of the things that we asked him to do is I always ask people at the end of every session, like, what's your top takeaway? And what's one thing you're going to do next week to build trust with a customer? And that's one thing I would suggest everybody listening to this thinks about on a regular basis.

[00:15:01] Natale: Anyway. So he said, I'm going to call a customer. So he got permission. He called a customer for the first time in his life. it was amazing. The customer said, sure. You know, I'd love to hear from you. And he said, do you think I could come and visit you? Well, the customer was just down the road, a few hours.

[00:15:20] Natale: So we did. after that customer meeting, Hector, he was completely transformed because he saw how the customers were using the product. Well, he gets so excited about how to offer value. Not only to this customer, but all their customers that he and his manager brought in a multi million dollar multi year sale.

[00:15:45] Natale: So there's two things that happened. He had this big transformation where he got the confidence and the skills to communicate and to listen for opportunities. That's one big thing that happened. So it was a transformation for him, but for the company, Hector, it was massive transformation because now they had all these people that became what I call sales sensitive all these people who were learning.

[00:16:14] Natale: And being seen as trusted advisors by their customers. And this was in a B2B space. so what happened was they brought in all these opportunities, people from procurement, people from accounting, people from production, project management, and they helped grow the company. Because as you can imagine, Now they have all these folks who aren't in account management, aren't responsible for business development, aren't responsible for sales, bringing in new business from existing customers.

[00:16:49] Natale: So, to go full circle, as you said, there is a saying that there's a lot more business with current customers. Then there are, and it's a lot more efficient and financially much more, lucrative to grow your company with your existing customer base. So there's a statistic that says, if you can. If you can retain 5 percent more of your customers, you can grow your profits by 75 to 95%.

[00:17:22] Natale: So this company had a transformation, not only with this one person that I'm talking about, but the whole company transformed. And now it's a very customer focused.

[00:17:33] Natale: Sales driven company and they scaled their whole company without hiring new people. Now, all these people are trusted advisors and masters at building relationships of trust with their customers.

[00:17:47] Hector: Yeah. It seems like the old model, and there's still a little bit of it that you see today in today's entrepreneurs, but the old model was, let me, think of a product or let me think of a service. And then I'll go and try and find the market to, try and fit into that product or service, whereas today, at least.

[00:18:06] Hector: A lot of companies are adopting the opposite approach where they have a market, they have an audience, a customer base that they wanna serve. And it seems like they're taking more of your approach, which is see, asking them what they need, seeing, going to them to see how they can better serve them.

[00:18:23] Hector: So I'm curious for you if there's a, framework or is there a series of steps or, In a nut, if we could try and, cram the book into these last X amount of minutes here, what high level frameworks or mindsets might people take away, to give them a little bit of a taste.

[00:18:41] Natale: Well. the overreaching, framework. this book is every chapter has a client story and it shares some, then there's a teaching element and a framework to make, and a section that ends with making it happen. However, in the beginning of the book, I share the trust. Models and I share the science and the evidence.

[00:19:07] Natale: So this whole model is evidence based. what I would share as a high level for your listeners is really trust comes down to three components. How we communicate, how we behave, and how we serve. And I liken it, Hector, to a triangle. I call it the trust triangle. So there are three sides to the triangle.

[00:19:28] Natale: When we are assessing someone's trustworthiness, we're looking at how they communicate, how they behave, and how they serve. out of that come the eight principles of trust. And so in my book, I walk through how the eight principles of trust can guide you to grow your business. So, You know, as you said, as teaser, as an example, principle number one is the one that this individual that had the transformation focused on, that's where he needed the most work.

[00:20:00] Natale: And that was around the principle number one is listening carefully with empathy and compassion, questioning and involving the other person in a conversation or in a decision that affects them. So, at a high level, that's what it all rolls up to, the trust triangle of communicating, behaving, and serving in a trustworthy way.

[00:20:25] Hector: Yeah, I think there's. So much importance to all three of them. And it's great that it's a triangle cause it's like stool that, if you just got to, it's rather incomplete. And with the three of them, you know, I'm saying we, we have a podcast production company, we're a service based company.

[00:20:42] Hector: And, similarly, those three, especially the one that highlights to us most urgently is the communication one, because even if you are serving them you're providing things. And the work is being done. Oftentimes, if you're not communicating that correctly or in the right timing or manner, that work maybe isn't appreciated or isn't noticed you're definitely missing out on the opportunity to build on that trust.

[00:21:07] Hector: That's for sure.

[00:21:08] Natale: Yes. there are three sides. and all must be intact to build, strengthen, or protect trust. So communication, you can be a wonderful communicator. In fact, that could be your strongest skillset area. However, if your service is also great, but your behavior is poor, you're not acting with integrity or in an ethical manner, the trust breaks down.

[00:21:36] Natale: You have to have all three sides, as you said.

[00:21:39] Hector: Yeah, it's really, I think, valuable for sure. Businesses at any stage, right? Both when you are, starting out, then also once you, I find that this is perhaps even more integral once you start to get a little product market fit. And once you start to really understand who your clients and your customers are, well, well, now you can really go deep.

[00:21:59] Hector: I think perhaps big phase. Early on is actually deciding or figuring out who your customers are, who your clients are. And then, I think a lot of people skip straight to building something and they skip over the opportunity, which you're talking about to really go in and listen and empathize and ask questions and understand more than anything.

[00:22:20] Natale: I mean, at the end of the day, you can have the best products in the world with the most patents, best service, best technology, strongest, most efficient processes or procedures, but if you don't have the relationships of trust with the customers. And you don't have the people on your team that know how to build, manage, and protect those relationships.

[00:22:49] Natale: You don't have anything. In fact, relationships are the lifeblood of your business. That must be protected.

[00:22:58] Hector: It's a really, really, really great point. Now, is there anything we've kind of gone over the map and I think what's great is that for people who want to dive deeper into this, that's what the book is there for. I mean, and what I'm excited about is that, it seems like it's more than just, Hey, here's what I think are some good ideas.

[00:23:16] Hector: It seems like you've really spent the time to go out and find, the answers and it's really backed up. But is there anything else, whether it's from the book or outside of it that you think? is worth mentioning with regards to what we've, all the things that we've talked about today.

[00:23:30] Natale: Yes! For every business, it always comes down to the people, Hector. Because your customers are always deciding Whether or not to trust you or not. So everyone in an organization has a part to play in the customer's decision to trust the people, your team, either critical trust risk points. they need to be behaving and communicating and serving in a trustworthy way. That's really. the most important part. It's, it's focusing on the people.

[00:24:08] Hector: I'm sensing a third book here, Natalie, is what I'm, smelling. Maybe you're just, like the good movies where they leave you with the cliffhanger for the next, the trilogy, if you will,

[00:24:17] Natale: Well, you know what? No one's ever said that. I hope I am like the good movie actor.

[00:24:23] Hector: Yeah, well, it makes sense because this, I think it is the third component in terms of sustaining that sort of trust, because as a founder, as a leader, we are but one person. And early on, perhaps we can be integral in it. In the fostering of that relationship, but as we scale, inevitably, that relationship is going to be developed and built through other people.

[00:24:46] Hector: And so the only way that we can ensure that sort of integrity and behavior and communication, all those, you know, the service sustains is. Is if there's leadership and kind of values that are built into that, which is, you know, makes this game a little more fun. So I'm excited about the third book to be written, but before that, the second book is out now, as if you're listening to this, you can go and get it now.

[00:25:11] Hector: Nellie, do you want to share where people might be able to find it or how, or the best way in which they might be able to do that?

[00:25:16] Natale: Of course, yes. So, you can find Trusted, the proven path to customer loyalty and business growth on Amazon, on amazon. com. ca. uk. de, wherever it is you're listening from. And I will share with you, Hector, this book is a guide for leaders. and managers and business owners and meant to be just that a guide to build relationships of trust so that people know how to do it because it really truly does come down to the people and so you can find the book on amazon.

[00:25:56] Natale: com or whatever wherever you're listening in from and you can also find more information on my website so My name again is Natalie Doyle Oldfield, and the company name is Success Through Trust. So the website is success through trust.com. And there's one little thing on, on my website that you and your listeners might be interested in.

[00:26:17] Natale: There's an assessment there that you can download, uh, complimentary and it will show you and about two minutes. The customer readiness assessment, how ready your company is to build relationships of trust with customers. And the last way to find me is on LinkedIn. So my LinkedIn, handle is Natalie Doyle Oldfield, and I write lots of posts there and stories.

[00:26:46] Natale: you can also sign up if you want for my newsletter where I post weekly stories and trust tips, but there's lots of ways. Amazon. com is where you can find my book though, Hector, and LinkedIn is a great way to connect with me in person.

[00:27:04] Hector: Wonderful. We'll link all that up in the show notes, so you can check that there. And, last question, Natalie, maybe we've hovered around it already, but in your opinion, what is the secret to scaling a business?

[00:27:16] Natale: The secret to scaling a business is having every single employee be customer focused. Having every single employee building relationships with customers. Because when everyone is focused on building relationships of trust and everyone is focused on that. The business will grow.

[00:27:38] Hector: Wonderful, wonderful stuff. Well, I want to thank all you listeners for sticking around with us today. We would be forever grateful for a rating or review or ever get your podcasts. And if you know someone who needs to hear this, uh, hit that share button and send them a message. Let them know that you were thinking about them.

[00:27:54] Hector: But, go get connected with Natalie and myself on LinkedIn. If you're not already, but we'll see on the next one later, y'all.

[00:28:00] Natale: Thank you.