How Michelle Gifford Grew from 18K to 238K Followers in 2 Years—Without Selling Out

[00:00:03] Hector: Hello and welcome to another episode of the how to scale a business podcast. My name is Hector Santia step on and I'm your host for today. Our special guest is Miss Michelle Gifford. She is a instagram business strategist and the ceo of Michelle Gifford creative and someone who I'm selfishly excited about because one of the most entertaining people that I have ran into on social media as of late, , entertainingly educational, I might add.

[00:00:26] Hector: So Michelle, thanks for hanging out with us. I appreciate it.

[00:00:29] Michelle: Hey, I'm excited to be here. What an introduction, educationally entertaining. That is 100 percent what I want to be. So I'm glad it's coming through.

[00:00:36] Hector: It definitely is. And I think you've really honed in on your, voice and your message. And then even the tactics, which we're going to get into a little bit, but I'd love for you to catch the listeners up on your story, Because people might take this the wrong way.

[00:00:48] Hector: And this is a compliment. I'm just going to say that I was so excited by how like down to earth and normal and cool you are. I mean, I've been in this sort of social media space for a while and, the influencer space is kind of weird because, with someone who has a large following and an audience, there's always this chance that they're kind of a weirdo and you're like the.

[00:01:11] Hector: You're like totally opposite. So anyways, catch us up on how you've been able to grow a following, you know, this raving audience, while still, maintaining some ground in this and having a family and like, being a normal person, if you will, at least, on the outside, it looks like.

[00:01:25] Michelle: We're all a little weird. I just tried not to show it. No, that's such a fun question. Because, I'm glad that's, again, coming through. Because I think Instagram is actually easier to grow now than ever, I would say. And, we need more normal people out there on Instagram. So I'm glad to lead the way there.

[00:01:42] Michelle: I've been in business for a really long time, but about two years ago, I'm an agency owner. we really specialize in helping women, who have personality brands. Usually they know how to create content, but I help them with their businesses. Right. And I was talking about all of the things, cause I love all the things.

[00:01:58] Michelle: I love, I love email marketing. I love. Branding and messaging. And I love Pinterest and all of, and I love Instagram. And about two years ago, I was like, this isn't working. I was super frustrated because the content I was putting out wasn't hitting. And I was spending a ton of time on Instagram and just not feeling like it worked.

[00:02:16] Michelle: And so, I changed, I was like, wait a minute, Michelle, why are you not applying? Content marketing principles to how you're showing up on Instagram, because I'm all about strategy. I'm all about analytics numbers. And so, I changed my focus to like, this is not a personal thing, like me showing up on Instagram.

[00:02:35] Michelle: If someone doesn't like the content, it has nothing to do with me. It has everything to do with, maybe I don't understand my audience, or maybe I don't really know how to create the right content. That's getting people to watch all the way through. And, That's something I can fix, Like that's something that I can like just get better at creating content.

[00:02:52] Michelle: So I niched down and, two years ago I was at 18, 000 followers and now I'm at over 238, 000 and it's happened because I've changed the focus from, Hey, What do I want to create to what does my audience want and how can I connect with them on a deeper level? And it's completely changed my business. It's completely changed, , how I can serve my audience and how I show up.

[00:03:16] Michelle: so that's a transformation story right there. But, the cool thing about Instagram is that I get to really, really talk to my audience. So. Tick tock is cool and it's great. Easier to go viral over there, but it's really hard to build a connection. But on Instagram, you build a different type of connection.

[00:03:35] Michelle: Everyone has tried to duplicate the power of Instagram stories and they just can't because Instagram stories, I can show up and I do show up and I'm like, Hey, here are some killer Instagram tips. And then. I coach my daughter's softball teams, and I can share that too.

[00:03:51] Michelle: And suddenly I have those connecting points that were just not available on any other platform. So Instagram allows you to show up as that expert and then back that expert expertise up with a personal connection. And I think that really is why Instagram is the best and so fun and such a great way to show up and be normal and share my life in that way.

[00:04:14] Hector: Yeah, you talked about you working with personality brands and it seems to make sense that those types of companies and businesses would be the ones to, to really take hold of this. I'm, curious if you have thoughts on the person who is thinking that it's not worth it or, they're too old or they're too young or, or they're kind of, you know, making all these excuses.

[00:04:35] Hector: Is that, you know, is there still, a value add for. Someone who's just getting started and they've been hearing about it, but they were hoping that it would go away it just hasn't gone away quite yet. So is it too late to get started? And then someone who's kind of already built a business, but has no social following. might you say to someone like that?

[00:04:56] Michelle: Yeah, so it's not too late. I have clients, I have, students who have started an Instagram account and now within a few, like six months, they're at over a hundred thousand followers. and this is again, I'll say it again, but this is one of the best times to be on Instagram because of the new way that the Instagram algorithm works.

[00:05:15] Michelle: It's a lot easier to understand. It's a lot easier to. Use it for your benefit. whether you're just starting out or maybe you have a business and you're trying to figure out does this even make sense for me to spend time doing, I would say like, do you want to get to know your audience?

[00:05:31] Michelle: This is a, Instagram is the freest place. It's a free place to test your ideas and to hone your messages. My messaging and the way I spoke and the way I showed up is now is much different than it was a year ago. Two or three years ago, and it's because I get to show up every day and figure out what resonates.

[00:05:49] Michelle: And so we have a lot of people who spend so much money on ads, right? All of these money on ads. Well, your ad budget could go way much further. If you did the testing ahead of time. With free content, we have this free, you have the option to have free content and get interaction engagement. And the best paid content is the free content that does really well.

[00:06:10] Michelle: So there is definitely space for that. And there's also so much value because I can post a story and ask a question about, Hey, what content do you want? My audience will tell me. And so no longer am I guessing what my audience wants. I am now doing audience driven content, which completely changes the game.

[00:06:29] Hector: Yeah, I think that's probably a big shift that a lot of people have to see with regards to social media, because I would imagine that there are a lot of people who see it as a promotional tool, but you didn't really say that it was, I mean, sure that there are parts of it. That you can promote, that allow that.

[00:06:44] Hector: But you said it's actually much better in a way to engage, your audience and your community, which I think is a shift in, perspective, or it's a little bit shift in, in strategy, as opposed to someone who just wants to come in and, and post about their business all day. So for, for someone who's coming from that, Old paradigm, right? A lot of times I see these, executives who they built their business, they built their network, they built their thought leadership, everything kind of what seems interestingly enough when that we're having this conversation, you'd, might enjoy this. Like it seems to be like pre 2013, which was like, Right.

[00:07:17] Hector: When Instagram came out. but now they're waking up and realizing that these people are coming new, you know, new to the industry and they've built their personal brand, but they've done it in a different way. So like, what is that shift? Or how does someone start to see that shift from it being like a promotional tool to, I think your words were like a conversation or an engagement sort of tool.

[00:07:37] Michelle: so one of the mistakes people are making when they show up is they use it Instagram as a billboard.

[00:07:42] Michelle: Like, I'm just going to post something and hope people. see it and then take action. And that's just not how social media works. It's in the name social, right? Social media is there to get people to engage and get reaction. And I know how painful it can be to have to feel like I'm starting from zero.

[00:08:02] Michelle: This is a whole new thing that I want to learn, or do I want to learn? And it just seems like not worth it. and the truth is, is if you are looking at building a personal brand, If you are looking at building an engaged audience, because it's no longer about who can get the sale, because I was at a conference recently and they said the person who pays the most per client or per customer is the one who's going to win.

[00:08:28] Michelle: And I wanted to yell, I didn't, but I'm like, that is, I don't Baloney because now, now you can have the person who understands the client, the customer better, they're going to win the one that connects is going to win more, and especially with AI that's coming out, we have to find ways that differentiate us between something that someone can copy and no one can copy.

[00:08:50] Michelle: I mean, My creativity, right? No one can copy the connection that I have, that's something worth investing in. If we want these long term businesses, because people don't just buy because they recognize your product, right? They buy because they feel connected. It's a much more emotional thing than it's ever been, because Options are so much more.

[00:09:10] Michelle: And so we have to really, we have to invest in that. This isn't a thing that we can just post once say, buy my product and people are going to flock. We have to invest in a relationship with our customers.

[00:09:21] Hector: Yeah, I would imagine that there's a lot of people who are sitting out there saying, yeah, Michelle, you're, you sounds great, but I'm not going to be dancing in front of anything, or I'm not going to be, walking around with those silly lights or like, they have all these things that they think they have to do in order To do what you're saying, right? To kind of take this path. are there things like that are common misconceptions that you find a lot of people run into that actually aren't true? that might help someone feel more comfortable taking some of these initial steps.

[00:09:53] Michelle: Sorry. Everyone has to dance. I'm sorry. That's just a requirement if you're not willing to dance or shake it. Just kidding.

[00:09:59] Hector: 2024. So like, that's a prereq before getting into business. You also have to twerk.

[00:10:05] Michelle: Yeah, I, well, yeah, sure. So, but, but no, you don't have to do any of that. That's, it's all about building a personal brand around you and figuring out what your unique voice is. I don't do the dancing thing. You know, I don't do the funny gimmicks, but, but my voice is something that I've worked on honing, right?

[00:10:23] Michelle: people can come to expect certain, certain types of content for me and people will show up and connect with me. And really the thing is, it's really good. I know Tik Tok, they made us feel like we all had to dance. And now it's really all about how do we create content that people are willing to share with someone else.

[00:10:41] Michelle: And so we can step back. We don't have to have those preconceived notions of like, we have to be silly or crazy, or we have to be someone we're not because that's not the point of social media. The point of social media is. To attract those people who are going to really resonate with you. So, as far as misconceptions, you don't have to be one way on social media.

[00:11:00] Hector: well, what's interesting is what you said is that you not that you were doing like, you know, I don't know, actually I have to scroll through your video. I think there was, I think I did see you dancing on there. But

[00:11:11] Michelle: I have danced. What are you talking about? I am not opposed to dancing.

[00:11:15] Hector: I

[00:11:15] Michelle: There's no twerking. There is

[00:11:17] Michelle: no

[00:11:17] Hector: dreams already. But one thing that I did think that you did really well is You utilize trends or you were, don't know, maybe you could speak to that a little more, whatever you were doing,you get what I'm saying right here. So I, think it goes back to like the relatable thing because who I am, I have a serious voice, I guess, but I'm actually pretty fun and, my content is fun. That doesn't mean that your content has to be fun if you're not fun. But, but one of the things that is important to understand about Instagram is that we need to start creating it with strategy.

[00:11:50] Michelle: And one of my strategies I teach and talk about all the time is that As creating different types of content for different, viewers, We have people that have never talked to us and that there we're actually trying to attract new people into our audience. So I'm going to create content that is attraction content.

[00:12:09] Michelle: The goal of that content is to attract new people in, that's going to be just more. Broadly applicable to people. It's going to be those hacks or quick tips that people can latch on to and implement really quickly. So you probably, the one you're probably talking about is like trending.

[00:12:23] Michelle: It was probably a trending audio or something or how to make your next post. , I make those a lot because people are really frustrated on how to get started on Instagram. And I know that's one of my best attraction type of content is some of those quick things that people can be like, Oh, I'll take that hook from her.

[00:12:38] Michelle: I'll use that audio and I'll put up my own video. And so I will create those attraction type videos. Uh, then I have some nurture content and that's for the next level down in my content funnel, where I really am setting myself up as the expert. I want people to know, like, and trust me. And then we have the cell content that comes, at the bottom, but just understand, I mean, I hope that the people listening are like, Oh, I know that content funnel. Why haven't I applied it to Instagram? There's an actual strategy that you can use that will get people through your content funnel on your email list and buying your products.

[00:13:11] Hector: Yeah. I'm glad you brought that up after break. I'd love to dive into either that framework, or if you have other frameworks to kind of help people through this. Cause, I was listening to. something that you're putting out and that, framework just made so much sense.

[00:13:24] Hector: And I said, that's myself. I said, Oh, I, I get that. Why aren't I doing that? So, we're going to get into that right after this quick break.

[00:13:32] Hector: Hey, y'all. Today's episode is brought to you by Amplify Media and we are a podcast and content production company. Well, like to think of ourselves as a media arm for your company because chances are you probably have a product, a passion, a mission, a message, but you might not be as savvy as Michelle to get it out there.

[00:13:44] Hector: So if that's the case, we can help go to amplify media. com. That's a M P L a F Y media. com. You can also check the show notes for the link. And with that, let's get back to Michelle. So Michelle, I've realized in this game that I am not trendy. I've never been trendy, like, in my whole life. the new thing that I'm trying to coin for myself is I'm timeless, not trendy.

[00:14:05] Hector: But it's also because I've realized that there are certain people who they just understand kind of the way, Culture is going and they understand what looks good. What's hot. have friends that they were on the Stanley cups, you know, or whatever, like years before, and they've been liking country music for a long, yeah, it's like they're, they understand where the wave is going.

[00:14:25] Hector: And I think you, whether it's intuitively or explicitly have done that with your content, but you also broke it down to a few pieces. You were like, Oh, we use the same style. And then it was like the music. And we then it was like, so there were like different levers that you were pulling to kind of create.

[00:14:40] Hector: I'd love to start there and to think about, whether it's a toolkit of yours or whether it is this framework of, attract, nurture, or, sell. when you're creating your content, what are those tools or frameworks that you're digging into often?

[00:14:54] Michelle: Yeah. So I look at what are my goals? So if my goal is to grow, then, I like that you use levers. We actually use that a lot. Like with, our clients is like, Hey, what levers are we going to pull today? and are we trying to attract new people in, are we trying to nurture and get people ready to sell, or are we selling and understanding that.

[00:15:13] Michelle: different pieces of content have different jobs. So if you know that, then if I put out a nurture piece and it gets less shares or likes or comments, it's fine because the job was not to go viral with this post. This was to nurture my current audience and same thing with like an attraction piece, right?

[00:15:33] Michelle: If I'm like, Oh, you know what? No, what they, this got a lot of views, but maybe not as many saves. I'm like, that's okay. Cause I. I got that attraction. so my main framework is that attract, nurture, sell. And I'm going to go through just like a good starting point. If you're like, how do I even start using that?

[00:15:50] Michelle: and it's a three to one method. Okay. So three attraction to nurture one cell. And if you're doing six posts a week, it makes it very easy. Three, two, one equals six. So, then you create three attraction. So can we do care if I go into some examples of what like attraction looks like, because it's going to look like different for everyone, but it's good to have kind of just some ideas, so trending rails is good. Something that's like controversial, like a controversial topic, something really entertaining lists. How to's, point of views, any quick win, Anything that someone could be like, Oh my gosh, I can implement that right now. And they don't need any more information about you to have that quick win.

[00:16:30] Michelle: Okay. cause the hope is because the Instagram algorithm works. Well, the reels algorithm it's actually actively trying to understand what content you, you create so that it can put your content in front of people who will like it. Even if they don't follow you, like the reels algorithm is different than any other algorithm because it's putting your content in front of people who don't follow you yet.

[00:16:51] Michelle: So that's pretty cool. So we want to use those reels to, and that's the easiest one to get attraction content are reels. , and then we have nurture content. Now this is more like, carousels. You'll see a ton of carousels on my post. Those are the, multi image reels. Posts that you can scroll through and they are like mini blog posts.

[00:17:10] Michelle: These are value driven, having reoccurring themes or talking head videos. If you're doing reels, these are all more nurture content. Cause they're a little bit deeper dive. They're more information. and then the second one. Selling content maybe you're doing a testimonial or you're showing a transformation or, you're doing a hard sell.

[00:17:29] Michelle: Now I usually, do most of my selling in my stories and then use my attraction and nurture content for transitional selling. So I'll say, Hey, here are 13 hooks that you can use. If you want my 131 hooks guide comment hooks, and I'll send you, , my hooks guide for free, and so then I get people on my email list that way.

[00:17:50] Michelle: so I'm using my attraction and nurture content to build my email list and then eventually sell people. in one minute what the framework is, but it's very, very, very effective

[00:18:01] Hector: Two things that came up for me as you're saying that. And the first thing is, sequencing. do we do three attraction posts, then a couple of nurture ones, then go for the ask? Is it, there's a season of, we're just going to put out attraction videos and we're going to, we're going to do one or two, three or X amount of weeks with this.

[00:18:18] Hector: And, you know, let's, I guess to your, your friend, we'll do three weeks of, attraction, then two weeks of nurturing and then a week of selling, or like, how do you like to actually, choreograph content, if you will.

[00:18:29] Michelle: choreograph cause we're dancing. Okay, but, yes, what I look at is what are my goals? So I actually have like a product anyone can buy anytime, you know, but there are times when it's in launch mode, And then I have a grow the gram course that is, has a very specific launch period.

[00:18:45] Michelle: So what I do is I'm mostly in attraction and nurture mode, because I really want to grow my audience. And then when I decide when I'm about to shift into, okay, it's almost time to launch grow the gram, then I am like, okay, now we're in nurture mode. I'm going to create, now I'm going to put nurture at the top.

[00:19:03] Michelle: So that's going to have three. Posts and then maybe attraction to sell one. And then when it's, when I'm really ready to sell, then you can swap those around. But it doesn't really matter the order. It's not because right now, your audience is not seeing the post you put out in sequential order.

[00:19:22] Michelle: They're just not. I just use this more as a framework for like, are we putting out attraction content? are we doing nurture? And I will say, if you are just starting out creating content on Instagram, then you probably don't know content is going to attract new people in or what one's going to nurture.

[00:19:40] Michelle: And that's okay. Because all of these posting is actually just you getting data so you can have some analytics to figure out, what is actually working and resonating with my people. So don't get too caught up about that. start where you are, figure out how can I serve my audience best?

[00:19:57] Michelle: And then how can I create, how can I create content that is bite size enough that people can stop, listen to it and implement?

[00:20:04] Hector: Yeah, this is really good stuff. can imagine that there are a few listeners now who we've sold on it already. You know, they're chomping at the bits I guess my question, I've got a couple more questions, but my last question around this topic is There's gonna be somebody who goes out there and, like a bat out of hell, just, 10x effort, and they just, hear crickets, and it's like, nothing seems to be working, or nothing seems to be resonating, or, from the outside, you would look up and go, it's not working!

[00:20:29] Hector: What do you say or do in those instances or how would you counsel or consult, that person they're like, it's not the effort part or at least, they've put in the initial effort. What do they do if they don't feel like they're getting the returns that, they thought they would?

[00:20:42] Michelle: Sure. Great question. So one of the things I'd go look at your content. are you creating selfish content? And I say that might feel mean, but is this content, are you creating it to be consumed or are you creating it for you? And the second thing I would say are, have you done the research? There is someone who's already been super successful in your niche, there is someone on Instagram. In your niche, have you studied them? Have you looked at the topics that are resonating the most? Have you looked at the type of content or do they do reels? Do they do carousels? And then I would say, have you looked at yourself and said, Hey, I'm actually really good at writing.

[00:21:18] Michelle: So maybe carousels are going to be better, or maybe the quote posts are going to be great. But if you just go out and just shock on it. And you just do a ton of content without doing research or strategy, and then feel sad that it doesn't work where else in your business has that ever worked?

[00:21:32] Michelle: Where you're just like, I'm just going to throw stuff up and see if it sticks. I mean, it does initially, you kind of have to have that phase in every other part of our business. We are trying to be strategic. So why wouldn't we do that on social media? Why wouldn't we start having a strategy and start saying, okay, there are.

[00:21:47] Michelle: Trends that I can figure out. this is a new skill I need to hone. I need to figure out how to do hooks. I need a visual and written and verbal. I need to understand how to do that. I need to understand how to form out a post and some of that's going to just come as you get better at it, but a lot of it is going to come by you intentionally going out and saying, Hey, I got to be a better content creator and I'm okay with sucking at the beginning and getting better, but I am going to get better and do the work to make it happen.

[00:22:17] Hector: Yeah, I think that's a great perspective as opposed to just throwing up. know what I've done in the past is just throwing my hands and said, I'm, I'm shadow ban. No, there's not.

[00:22:25] Michelle: You're not, you're not shadowbanned. There's a, there's a, you could go, look, there's a thing on your Instagram that says if you're a shadowbanned or not, so you're probably not. It's okay.

[00:22:33] Hector: other. Yeah, I just, I need to keep going is what it was. Um, this has been really good. I've got one more question for you. but before we do that, Michelle, where is the best place to get connected with you? Follow up with yours. If there's any favorite tools or resources that you have that listeners might, enjoy, would love for you to share that.

[00:22:54] Michelle: Sure. come follow me on Instagram. Are you kidding me? I give a lot of free tips, advice. if you go to any of my posts or if you DM me, if you DM checklist, I'll send you over an Instagram audit checklist and it walks you through everything that you can go look at your account, see what you're doing and, start making improvements that way.

[00:23:12] Michelle: I think that's a really great place to start. I also have a podcast. So if you're a podcast listener, like you are, come over and find me at the social strategist. and I will give you all the tips and tricks to making Instagram work for you.

[00:23:25] Hector: Fantastic. And what I love about Michelle is that she practices what she preaches and it's been one of my most favorite fall. You're at the top of my stories. You know, every time I come back and you're like, Like, you know, so

[00:23:36] Michelle: I love it.

[00:23:37] Hector: it's like the new Google, right? It's the, top three on,

[00:23:40] Michelle: Yeah. It's a big deal to be on the top of someone's story. So what a compliment.

[00:23:45] Hector: it is, well earned. I think that's what I should say.

[00:23:48] Michelle: Yeah, I'll take it. Yeah,

[00:23:50] Hector: You all deserve. That's what I meant.

[00:23:52] Michelle: I earned it. Darn it.

[00:23:56] Hector: My last question for you is, in your opinion, what is the secret to scaling a business?

[00:24:02] Michelle: The secret is to find your secret sauce and then get really good at what you do and let other people do the rest. as much as that pertains to Instagram is, is recognizing. That there is a place for you and your uniqueness, whether you like trends or not, since you are timeless, come and be timeless on Instagram, right?

[00:24:21] Michelle: Whatever it is. I think especially with Instagram and the scaling part is there is a particular power with coming on Instagram and finding people who get you and who resonate with you that you won't find anywhere else. , so there it is. That's the secret.

[00:24:38] Hector: Yeah, yeah. Community really, goes a long way and never a better time in the world, really, where we can access that, through 90 second clips. So all you listeners, I want to thank you for sticking around with us today. We appreciate you being here. We would be forever grateful for a rating or review wherever you get your podcast.

[00:24:54] Hector: And if you know someone who needs to hear this, someone who's thinking, who's been thinking about getting their Instagram game up or social media strategy, go and send them this message, let them know you were thinking about them. But it's always fun hanging out with all of you. We'll see on the next one.

[00:25:07] Hector: Later, y'all.