How Brady McCarty Redefines Sales with Emotional Communication

[00:00:03] Hector: Hello, and welcome to another episode of the how to scale a business podcast. My name is Hector Santi Esteban, and I am your host for today. Our special guest is Mr. Brady McCarty. He is a, I don't know if he'd like this, but I think of him as like a closing expert. He's like a sales, another terrible term, like a sales guru, right?

[00:00:19] Hector: I don't think that people associate those with the greatest of people, but you're doing some really cool stuff and helping people to change their mindset around closing deals and making sales. So I don't know what else to call you, but anyways, Brady, thanks for hanging out today.

[00:00:33] Brady: No, I appreciate it, dude. Yeah. Closing sales. Talk about communication. I guess another word could be for poor building. I hate the word sales and closing.

[00:00:42] Hector: Yeah, and I, like to bring the elephant into the room as soon, talk about it as soon as we can, because I know there's listeners who are going yeah, who's this guy? And not that there's a ton of other sales experts or coaches or influencers out there, but You have a particularly, it seems to be different though.

[00:00:59] Hector: So take us into your story and tell us how you got into this world and then, what you think sets you apart from some of the other guys who are, trying, you know, in this space, if you will.

[00:01:08] Brady: Yeah, dude. There's any sales training you can possibly think of like I've been through. And. Most sales trainers are teaching the same thing, which drives me nuts. I found that many of these sales coaches, they have a wonderful heart, but they're teaching the same tactics, just regurgitated into that influencer spill on things.

[00:01:25] Brady: And what happens with that is it causes just this massive sales resistance on your sales calls because potential clients are hearing the same thing over and over and over again. So what I did about, I don't know, five, six years ago, probably seven years ago now shit about seven years ago is I invested like completely differently in my learnings.

[00:01:44] Brady: I've invested thousands upon thousands upon thousands in stuff like behavioral science. Nonverbal communication, hypnosis, psychology, neurolinguistics, the list goes on, on and on. But just to form this, new way of communication that I call emotional communication and how to bring the emotions into sales calls and just make it fucking fun again.

[00:02:05] Brady: Sales isn't fun right now. I feel like for a lot of people, it's a task. So that's a short story that could be long.

[00:02:11] Hector: I was fortunate enough to get into a sales position right out of high school. And it was right in the, in oh nine, during the great recession whatever they call it. But I'm so glad that I did because it's helped me and impacted me in everything I've done.

[00:02:24] Hector: It's, it's allowed me to start, and fail a bunch of different businesses. But without that, that sales component, there was little to no fuel. To put in the fire, but I knew that at least if I was going to start something with this skill set, I had it in my back pocket. And so I guess the question is, for founders who may not have had that privilege or that luxury to have that sales, experience.

[00:02:46] Hector: And now all of a sudden they've got this business in this company that they've got to lead and they've got overhead and they're, they've got, wherever they at, all of a sudden, they've got to turn around and make sales. How do you help someone bridge that gap? or create that sort of mindset where they, feel confident going out there and like you said, closing deals or or however, you, might position it.

[00:03:04] Brady: Yeah. And that's a question I can answer it about 10 different ways. Confidence and I think that's probably the biggest thing is a lot of people have plays such a big role in sales. A lot of people have this. Bad vibe when it comes to the word confidence, like they think arrogant or they think drill sergeant or, whatever it is.

[00:03:20] Brady: So anything you have. A bad or a negative definition to, it's hard to accept it. So I think step one is to change the definition of confidence. And from there you can start adding in a few other things, but confidence to me is not arrogance. It's being comfortable in uncomfortable situations. So the more situations you can put yourself in, the more, just inevitably, the more comfortable you get in a lot of situations.

[00:03:43] Brady: And that's really important. In my definition, where confidence comes from and then just to piggyback on that in a conversation, the second piece of advice I would give is emotional communication to shorten that up is, is like you're just having a normal conversation, just like you and I are a normal conversation, almost like you're enjoying a beer with a friend, right?

[00:04:01] Brady: A lot of factors play into that, but it's all, led into this thing I call invisible influence on sales calls. And it's in the shape of a normal conversation. Does that make sense?

[00:04:11] Hector: Yeah, I think when you talk about influence, you talk like a lot of people hear sales and like you said, has this negative connotation or it's this dirty word. And I don't remember who I heard it from or who said it or who it's credit to, but like everything is selling and we were chopping it up before we started recording about parenting.

[00:04:26] Hector: that's the biggest sales job, relationships, another sales job, they're all. Selling. But like you've said, it's just bringing this certain level of confidence to it. another thing that's coming to mind is like for founders, it seems like there needs to be two things.

[00:04:39] Hector: There needs to be like a willingness to go into those uncomfortable situations. If they're not willing to do that, then they're just gonna avoid them or procrastinate on them or whatever it is. and then there's gotta be some level of skill once they go into it, right? Cause otherwise they go in there and they get massacred because I think there's a big difference in terms of an experienced salesperson or someone who's been in those sort of situations and someone who hasn't, at least there's, there seems to me to be a learning curve that, that can be there.

[00:05:05] Hector: So Is that a battle like that one, two punch? do you tackle those at the same time? Is that something that someone can if they just feeling these, this unwillingness or feeling these nerves, like how might they approach that first part of the problem while it's still sucking at sales in general?

[00:05:21] Brady: Yeah. And we were chatting a while ago about kids and stuff. And in my opinion, which probably a lot of people could share this is anytime you communicate, you persuade, right? Like you said, discipline your kids or where to go for dinner with your wife or what movie to watch, whatever it is, anytime you communicate, you persuade.

[00:05:36] Brady: And if you could, It's unrealistic, but if you recorded all your life events from like the day you were born to today, you can probably go back and look at those recordings and see where you failed to communicate certain things appropriately to get your point across. And the point of that is once you understand like where you're, messing up and once you understandhow vulnerability actually plays a good role into sales, you start to lean more into that stuff.

[00:06:00] Brady: So for me, it was really looking back and looking at the failures and seeing Oh shit, that's why I failed right here. And it may be more comfortable to take the next action. Once you understand why you failed at something, it's easier to take the next action. Does that make sense?

[00:06:14] Hector: Yeah. And it gives this meta reason for failing. I think so many people, I know I was, failure of averse and it stems from my, third grade rejection, right? Which I joke about, but I had this huge aversion to rejection. And so in sales, it was like that exposure therapy sort of thing they do with like spiders, like people with spiders, like if you're scared of something, you got to lean into it.

[00:06:34] Hector: So that way it doesn't become so nerve wracking.

[00:06:38] Brady: Yeah. And actually you brought up something man relevant, non relevant, but you brought up your third grade rejection, whatever story is there. But the point is how every adult is a by product of childhood suffering or childhood reward is a quote I like to live by. Every adult is a by product of childhood suffering or childhood reward.

[00:06:53] Brady: So once you understand that it's a lot easier to take in situations because I know the person I'm talking to is also insecure. Every single one of us is insecure about something, right? We all put our pants on in the morning and the sooner we can figure that out and accept that it makes situations so much easier.

[00:07:09] Brady: Even on sales calls, the person you're talking to is just as nervous as you are when you're first starting out, starting a business, super nerve wracking, but those clients are also nervous because they have problems and it's solved, right?everyone's got issues. And once we can look at it, it's just an even playing field.

[00:07:23] Brady: It makes things a lot easier to dive in and do things.

[00:07:26] Hector: Yeah. It reminds me of in the dating I don't know, the pickup sort of things you learn as like a 20 or young 20 something year old, there was this like inner game and outer game. I remember that being a kind of a terminology and in sales, it seemed to be like the same thing.

[00:07:40] Hector: there's the words that you say, there's the pitch deck, there's the outward facing thing. But what it seems like you're talking about as well as that, the. Inner game, the inner, state that you bring to the sales situation is equally, if not maybe more important.

[00:07:53] Brady: that for sure. But also to put a word on it, the mask that people wear, like everyone's wearing certain masks. It could be a confidence mask, a power mask, a pity mask empathy, like whatever different masks that people are wearing. And if we can see through that mask and start selling to the brain, A lot of things change, but it's hard to sell it to the brain.

[00:08:11] Brady: And this is getting super advanced, but it's hard to sell to the brain until you understand the mask that they're wearing and why they're possibly wearing that

[00:08:16] Hector: I want to get into some of these frameworks. So when we get backfrom break, I'd love for you to just share whatever frameworks or models, that you think might be helpful because this what you just said blew mine. And so we're gonna get into that right after this quick break.

[00:08:32] Hector: Hey, y'all. Today's episode is brought to you by amplify media and we are a podcast and content production company. We like to think of ourselves as platform builders because chances are, if you're listening to this, you have a product, a passion, a mission, a message, something that you're trying to get out to the world.

[00:08:43] Hector: But you may not have the time, the team or the tech skills to be able to do that. If that's the case, we can help go to amplify media. com. That's a M P L a F Y media. com. You can also check the show notes for info. And with that, let's get back to Brady. So Brady, I think one of the things that really helped me in my sales career was these models, these frameworks, I was fortunate enough to come up in a company that, had a lot of these programs built out so that essentially if you follow the recipe, the meal would taste good, right?

[00:09:13] Hector: They figured out a lot of these things ahead of time. and I was fortunate enough for that. And then going into other business, you can apply some of those frameworks or some of those things into, whatever industry you take it to, what do you feel are some of those universal frameworks or universal whatever that might apply to whatever industry the listener might be in?

[00:09:33] Brady: Yeah. And like we were saying before the break is communication is communication, no matter what you're doing, right? Anytime you communicate, you're persuaded. So industry doesn't matter. Anytime you're communicating, if one huge framework or mindset is Empowerment, other person has to feel empowered.

[00:09:49] Brady: And if both people are doing that, it's amazing conversation. But worst case scenario, the salesperson is making the other person feel empowered. That does not happen on sales calls. The salesperson is usually trying to carry some sort of authoritative figure. And that authoritative figure alone causes sales resistance.

[00:10:06] Brady: can you expand on what that might look like in a, cause I feel like that is the norm. That's the standard is to hold some authority. I even remember like learning the opening line, open it, like you're a doctor to position yourself as the authority and, put them as the, as the patient who needs, needs help.

[00:10:22] Hector: So how might someone like, What might that actually look like in a sales setting?

[00:10:26] Brady: Look, I think it's important for anyone listening to know that because you're the salesperson on the call, you're already the authority. Like people coming onto the call already look at you as the authority because you have something they need or want. Otherwise they wouldn't be on the call with you. does that just for the fun of it.

[00:10:41] Brady: So you already have that authority just from that alone. So if we just keep that in our mind and not try to act more authoritative, you'll come across more genuine. But that is a huge problem is a lot of sales people come in because they've been trained this way. That's just how they're trained. So you can't judge that.

[00:10:55] Brady: But they come in with this fake authority and people can read right through that.

[00:10:59] Hector: Yeah, it's the communication thing that you saidis huge because ultimately we, we bring all this, all these masks, like you said, into the sales conversation, and we're trying to put on this front or have this expertise or this authority or to do some. Trick or thing that's gonna make them buy or something right it's actually just more of a conversation,

[00:11:22] Brady: Yeah, that's it. It's just a conversation. And better you can have a conversationliterally like this call that this podcast we're doing right now, like this episode is. Exactly how my sales calls go down. This is the type of tonality. This is the type of conversation. There's no, I'm better than you or you're better than me.

[00:11:38] Brady: It's just, let's see what kind of value I can receive from you. Let's see what kind of value you can go see for me. It's an equilibrium.

[00:11:45] Hector: you talked about value a couple of times. And I think that perhaps is a tough thing for a lot of founders because obviously you mentioned the insecurity thing. And then we're all carrying our kind of deep wounds and self worth sort of thing. But then also It's something that shows up within even in the business.

[00:12:03] Hector: I know for a lot of founders and a lot of business owners, pricing is always like this big thing especially in a, like they're a freelancer or service based business. They're like, how do I price myself? All of a sudden I'm putting a value on my worth. I know for me, like there was a certain level of confidence that was necessaryWith certain price tags, right?

[00:12:22] Hector: that came along with it. So can you just talk to and speak to how someone might build their confidence, especially in what it is that they're selling or they're providing?

[00:12:32] Brady: The easiest, fastest route to that is know your product and be sold on your product. Like you need to be someone that could possibly buy your product because if you're not 145 percent sold on your product. Then that's going to come across as very little authority and very little value on the receiving side.

[00:12:52] Brady: They're going to, they're going to see you're not fully sold on that. So if you,need to write down all the value inside your program and just start attaching emotions to it, I don't know, whatever you need to do, go buy your own program. Like whatever you need to do, be sold. You can help somebody and the price is worth it otherwise lower your price.

[00:13:09] Hector: So pricing is definitely a huge thing and I think thatWith the more value that you provide, obviously the higher that your prices can do. And I I'm curious what sort of tactical stuff might be able to, help someone feel better about that. I remember for me early on, it was, reviewing my scripts orrecently it's been getting like testimonials and talking with clients who are actually, experiencing the value, like those sorts of things just seem to carry over into the sales calls.

[00:13:34] Hector: Are there. Tactical things that you like to do that can help someone to, if they are struggling with they know their know, their product or service is valuable. They're just struggling, feeling confident, like in the actual sales situation.

[00:13:48] Brady: Yeah. Two things. One. Anybody that has their own business should be sold on their price already, because you started this business to in some way, shape or form change someone's life or business. So you should already be sold on your price. If it's maybe a sales rep that's coming in, then I would suggest that they go look at some testimonies that the owner has done.

[00:14:08] Brady: Go look at the actual program itself. This is something I've trained salespeople on all the time is whatever you're selling, go through it word for word, module by module, whatever it is they're teaching, go through it and implement it. When you're doing that, you're telling your brain like, oh, there's actual work involved in this.

[00:14:23] Brady: I got to do things like you're being the client at that point. So your value scale raises towards that price.

[00:14:28] Hector: How do you feel about things like role playing? I remember early on thinking that it was like really dumb. This is silly that I'm just like, reading stuff or like practicing on like kind of fake situations. And at least for me, the realization that I came to later was that it allowed me to fill in the gap so much easier.

[00:14:44] Hector: I didn't have to like worry about what I was going to say, or I didn't have to be thinking about that. I could all of a sudden, like you said, be focused on them, or I could be, catering the conversation, like a real conversation as opposed to, Constantly wondering, what's the next thing to say?

[00:14:57] Hector: What am I going to say? how am I going to answer this sort of question? Is that something that you preach to the people that you work with?

[00:15:03] Brady: no we'll, but not buttheads, but we'll be a little bit different on this situation.I don't like actually I fucking hate role play. I hate it because I have 40, 50 clients now and I never do role play with them because it's, it always turns into this Unrealistic situation that doesn't really happen on sales calls, like they'll push too hard.

[00:15:21] Brady: They won't push enough. The role play never fits the scenario of a live call. So instead I might do real quick things like tell me what they said. Here's how I would reply to that. And just a quick little scenario, I tell people to go off the calls to practice things. If you can get things down in the real world at the grocery store or practice talking to your spouse or your friends, if you can practice there, it's second nature on the sales call and you're not even practicing anymore.

[00:15:47] Brady: You're just living life.

[00:15:48] Brady: this is your world, you're in it. What else have we not talked about that might help someone to up their sales game?

[00:15:55] Brady: I would put, man, so many let's just say piercing questions. That's something I coined. About three and a half, four years ago now, and piercing questions is how you get someone off of surface level into emotional level way below that surface because people buy off emotions and they back them up with logic.

[00:16:13] Brady: So we really got to get the emotions out of these calls, whether they're good or bad emotions, and something that everyone can implement in the real world and on your sales calls is something I call trigger statements, which is where piercing questions come from. So trigger statements are anything that might have a story behind it.

[00:16:29] Brady: So someone says, it's really stressing me out. It's really pissing me off. Or hey, I'm firing my assistant soon. I don't know anything that has a story behind it. Insert piercing questions and ask some sort of a question to get them open up more about that. So if someone says something like, fire my assistant soon.

[00:16:45] Brady: I might come in there and say, what, what's going on with that? Talking about your assistant. Oh, Brady, I'm firing them real, real soon. So I got to pick up all their workload on my own, yada, yada. Why that's important to me is I didn't know that before, but now I know there might be a secret concern that comes up later of them not having the time to implement my program because they're firing their assistant soon, so I can get ahead of that concern before it comes up at the end of the call.

[00:17:07] Brady: That's where Pearson questions comes in is to find out what's going on. Everyone has hidden concerns. And you can get, you can actually have a 90 percent no objection call. If you really understand how to get ahead of those concerns before they come up. Pearson questions.

[00:17:19] Hector: Yeah. Questions can really help to illuminate so many things. I think that's. That's the thing. Another misconception. I would imagine a lot of founders have just because people have in general that they think that sales is some like pitch, like they're giving some speech or like they need to say the magic words to get them to swipe their credit card when it's actually the reverse, right?

[00:17:39] Hector: It's actually like, how can we get At least in my opinion, like what I found is how can we get the client to say the right thing? Like, how can we ask the right questions that are going to make them realize that swiping their credit card is, the best decision for them

[00:17:52] Brady: Yeah. any, the best persuasion is self persuasion and self persuasion doesn't happen without questions. So having the right questions at the right time to make them say whatever they need to say to persuade themselves. It's far easier than trying to persuade somebody,

[00:18:06] Hector: for sure. Brady, if people want to go deeper in your world and get, obviously we just. We didn't even get to the tip of the iceberg. We melted some water off of it So if people want to go deeper into what you're talking about and some of the stuff that we covered, where's the best place they should go?

[00:18:19] Brady: Either two places. You can go to Instagram, which is just Brady dot. McCarty can find me there. Or go to Facebook, Brady McCarty over on Facebook and just shoot me a message. Either one of those platforms, happy to go a little deeper into with anybody that wants to

[00:18:33] Hector: My last question here, Brady, in your opinion, what is the secret to scaling a business?

[00:18:38] Brady: detachment from any outcome. more you can detach, the more you can see. I think that's the big problem with when I started my business was attached to some sort of outcome. So if you can detach, then you'll start seeing different things that you didn't see when you're attached to one thing. The only attachment should be changing lives and how many lives going to change.

[00:18:55] Brady: Everything else will fall into place.

[00:18:57] Hector: Yeah. Great stuff here. Hey, y'all, you're going to go have to go back and listen to this a couple of times. There's some,nuggets in there. So I want to thank you for sticking with us. We would be forever grateful for a rating or review wherever you get your podcasts. And if you know someone who needs to hear this, hit that share button and let's grow the community together.

[00:19:13] Hector: Go get connected with Brady and myself on Instagram if you're not already, but thanks as always for hanging out with us. We'll see on the next one. Later y'all. Bye.