71. Squid Pro Quo: Tandem Repeat's Melik Demirel Reinvents Clothing with Squitex

[00:00:00] Erum: Mari Grandstream, welcome to the Grow Everything podcast. We're so excited to have you on.

[00:00:06] Mari: Thank you. I'm super excited to be here.

[00:00:09] Erum: Yes, because you and I met at New Lab during Climate Week last year, and we became Instant Buddies in a sea of like clean tech.

[00:00:19] Mari: We did indeed. It was, uh, it was really, really great to meet you and it was very nice to have a first chat about, you know, just biochemistry and, and you know, all kind of things, what we are working on.

[00:00:29] Mari: So I'm very happy to continue from that.

[00:00:31] Erum: Yeah. Yeah, because. We're, we're, we're, we have a lot in common, so we both studied chemistry, you organic, I was forensic chemistry. But, um, you also have had this great, incredible career where you looked at chemistry and then you were making different products for these large companies that worked at BASF and these other organizations.

[00:00:51] Erum: Um, and then, you know, in this world. Os ocean restoration and entrepreneurship and this, it's just a fascinating background. Can you just talk to us a little bit about what first sparked your curiosity about biomaterials and bio-refinery concepts and how did that eventually lead you to founding Origin by Ocean?

[00:01:11] Mari: Yeah, absolutely. I think I'm very, uh, untypical chemist, uh, because already during my PhD I was working on the biomaterials and, and biochemicals. So normally organic chemists, we tend to work with the oil-based chemistry a lot. And I'm actually rare species because I'm never done that. So after my studies, um, I really focused on the biochemical side.

[00:01:33] Mari: So for me it's always been part of me, part of my chemistry and how I work within the industry as well. And that's why in a big corporations, I was always hired as an expert to build the future of that particular company in a biochemical field. And, you know, working in a corporations, working on the, you know, bio-based material site and looking at the future, that also means that you have to turn quite a lot of stones to find biomass, which is truly sustainable at scale.

[00:02:03] Mari: So the chemical industry is kind of a, you know, there is good and bad when you look at the scale because when you go up in a scale, most of the biomass sources are definitely not sustainable anymore. So that was always something that was following me as a thought that what is, what is the source of the truly sustainable material that we can find from this planet?

[00:02:25] Mari: Then I'm also a scuba diver. So what happened to me was that I was diving in a one location quite frequently and I started to see that there was this weird type of appearance of seaweed blooms. And then I started to think that, okay, so this is thing that is happening. Maybe this is the future biomass that we can use because there will be a lot of it during the unification.

[00:02:49] Mari: We're gonna discuss that later on. So just putting the mouthful out there, that there is such a word of unification and that was something we was triggering this kind of a thinking that, okay, so how do we build materials and biochemicals from this biomass? What? Like what does it actually contain? And this is how the whole thing started.

[00:03:10] Karl: Yeah, so let's, let's talk about eutrofication. Like when I hear that word, I immediately think like, red tide, you know, huge algae blooms. It means there's a lot of excess nutrients in the water, which in turn forces the algae to grow. You didn't see that as. Like you said, uh, environmental crisis. You saw it as a potential resource.

[00:03:33] Karl: Can you talk about the exact moment where you saw these algae blooms as being a feedstock for a new kind of industry?

[00:03:41] Mari: It actually, it's a very good question, actually started from my childhood. Um, coming from Finland, uh, we are living next to the most polluted sea in the world. No one knows, but that's the reality.

[00:03:54] Karl: Wow.

[00:03:54] Mari: Yep. And, uh, I'm not doing very good promotion now for Finland, but here we go. That's the, that's the reality. So I grew up next to this sea and I saw that what the unification actually meant. So we, every summer we had a cyanobacteria blooms and some of the cyanobacteria species are very toxic, right?

[00:04:15] Mari: So that was something that every year we read in the newspapers, okay, is it, is this gonna be a bad or good? Um, you know, blue green alle year and all of that. Of course, at the time I was not thinking that this is a great source of biomass, but I kind of knew that, you know, this is, this is what we have.

[00:04:31] Mari: But it really started from my scuba diving. Um, hobbies. I was obsessed diving everywhere, you know, wherever there was a, you know, opportunity to die. I was diving and it really started from there that I started to see that biomass. And that was, of course, very much linked to the fact that I was working in that field, uh, trying to find this kind of a holy crail of crate biomass for the.

[00:04:55] Mari: Chemical industry. And this is where, where we really, really started that. I started to see that, you know, even in the oceans, not just the Baltic sea next to me, but in the oceans around the world, globally, we are seeing the same problem, different species, same story. And this is how, how it really started.

[00:05:14] Mari: And I started to, as a chemist, you're always interested in see the molecules inside, you know, whatever, whatever that is. And in this case, seaweed. And, um, and then I started to build the idea from there also from the market. What could we produce and how do we do it?

[00:05:28] Erum: Yeah. Wow. Um, that's so global problem, but can you help us visualize, um, a little bit more about the scale, the locations in particular?

[00:05:39] Erum: What types of different, um, algae blooms or seaweeds are you seeing? Can you just, um, based on your research and what you've learned, um. Can you give us a pi picture of what, how big this problem is and like what the, how diverse it is?

[00:05:54] Mari: Yeah, absolutely. Um, so for example, aari s we are focused on sargassum, uh, seaweed.

[00:06:02] Mari: So we have between 40 to 60 million tons of sargassum blooming every single year. The Caribbean. Yeah. Gulf of Mexico. And in the US

[00:06:15] Erum: you

[00:06:15] Mari: mean?

[00:06:15] Erum: Um, Gulf of America. Sorry, just

[00:06:17] to

[00:06:17] Mari: correct you. Sorry. Of Yeah, yeah, yeah. Sorry, sorry, sorry. I'm European and I'm very sorry. I'm

[00:06:22] Erum: okay.

[00:06:22] Mari: I can't follow the developments you guys have.

[00:06:25] Mari: Don't worry. So yeah, Gulf of America, that's, I love it. That's so, yeah. So this is where, where it kind of sits and uh, and there is a lot of it. I actually remember reading the UN report years back. I mean, maybe we are talking like 12 to 15 years ago. They were writing about sargassum. They said that this might become the next huge environmental problem, uh, of this world.

[00:06:52] Mari: And so it happened. But of course, being human beings when you read something is like, well, it's a un report. It's never gonna happen. Right? And but now we see it. Year after year, it gets more and more intense. Um, the blooming period gets, you know, uh, longer and longer. It starts earlier, finishes, you know, later.

[00:07:13] Mari: So this is really something that, that, you know, I started to see already 10, 12 years ago. And that was something that I think, okay, Sargassum is something that we have to start from because it, we know where it is. They need to harvest it anyway because there is so much of it. So it's kind of a great opportunity to kind of tap in if you like, um, that we are just gonna buy it and do something useful out of it.

[00:07:40] Karl: And it's not just a Gulf of America problem because I grew up in California and it's a California problem as well. Do you see, I mean you also mentioned in the Baltic being one of the most polluted seas in the world. Do you see it there as well?

[00:07:54] Mari: No, we don't. Baltic Sea is very different type of ecosystem because it's prish water, so we don't actually have the, the, the salt concentration, what you guys have in, in the, I call it real oceans.

[00:08:07] Mari: Uh, so that's why the species, what we have in the Baltic Sea are very different.

[00:08:11] Karl: Okay. Yeah. And if, if you could walk someone through, like the process that origin by, uh, origin by Oceans. Does, you know, from harvesting the algae to producing ingredients, what would they see happening? What does it look like at, at each stage?

[00:08:27] Mari: A mess for a person who doesn't understand how it goes. This goes to the investors as well when they're trying to, we're like walking them, you know, through the value chain, like, oh my god, so many steps. But yeah, bear with me. So basically it starts from the fact that we have people harvesting, uh, sargassum.

[00:08:44] Mari: So we don't do that as a company, but we kind of, you know, tap into the. Uh, the, the source, which is already there. So we have companies harvesting sargassum. Um, they do it in a different ways. There are a lots of different ways of harvesting it. Then it comes to the land and then we try it. So then we have different ways of drying sargassum.

[00:09:05] Mari: Then it actually comes to Finland, uh, from the Caribbean, because now we are based here. So then it goes to the containers. Goes to the ship, then it happily sails, uh, its way to Finland and then it comes to our place. So then when it comes to the lab, we take it as it is, it's dried material, we have to wet it, uh, and then we start processing it.

[00:09:27] Mari: So then we have very typical, I would say. You know, you need operations from chemical industry reactors, you know, puts some pans that it goes through, and then we do the purifications and out comes white powders. So that's what I always say that. Our products, they don't look like seaweed, they don't taste like seaweed.

[00:09:47] Mari: And definitely they don't smell like seaweed. And that's the beauty of it. And uh, and this is, you know, the white powders then go to our customers and they are making cosmetics or hygiene products, textile printing processes and nutraceutical.

[00:10:02] Erum: Wow. Wow. Yeah. I definitely wanna go into some of these applications in a bit, but, um, I would like to kind of just talk a little bit, a little bit more about the origin of Origin by Ocean.

[00:10:12] Erum: Um, and so you saw this potential in marine biomass and speaking, you know, to the world of scientists. What were the first experiments or early ideas that convince you that this could become a real bio-refinery system rather than just a research concept?

[00:10:30] Mari: I think it's the business itself. Um, and in a way I'm, I'm always been very, even though that, you know, I've done my PhD and I, I'm being, um, in academia, but I always been very business kind of true in person because I think, and this might sound very arrogant, um, but I say it anyway, I think the change happens through business.

[00:10:52] Mari: Um, and that's just how we are built. Um, but we don't have to do business in a way that we've been doing. So far, so this was something that I saw straight away that seaweed based products are definitely not a new thing. It's not like we invented something amazing that I'm gonna go to Sweden and get a Nobel Prize.

[00:11:10] Mari: No way. Because, you know, they been, they've been there for quite some time. So then I actually started to do a lot of research on that and I was, you know, I, I was kind of familiar with these sea wheeled based products, um, from early, you know, early 1920s and 1930s. And, uh, and that was something that was triggering me that there, there needs to be more, um, that Wes us know few, but there needs to be more.

[00:11:37] Mari: And then also I'm always been interested in, in the functionality. It's like if you have a molecule, it's, well, it's great that you have a molecule, but what is the functionality? Like, what's the performance? And then I started to think from the. From the market and the product point of view, that how do we get that functionality?

[00:11:56] Mari: And then kind of seeing that, okay, in a frown, seaweed, do we have something that has this functionality or potentially could have this functionality? And this is how it started, that that is, is a real, like, it's a real business. There is a potential for, for basically building a business case from, you know, from day one.

[00:12:20] Mari: And I think it's actually, I think seaweed is not necessarily the most interesting academic topic, um, because then you have to go and search for the things that are unknown. And there is a lot of unknown in the seaweed, uh, because we have different seaweed species, families, you know, all of that. So I think there is a lot that we don't know.

[00:12:39] Mari: We only know a fraction. So I would rather in academia to, to really focus on those type of things. But at the same time, you can do also business if you know the functionality.

[00:12:50] Karl: Yeah. That's so interesting. I mean, one of the things about you is you call yourself the chief executive activist, chief executive activist, which is a really super powerful and different title.

[00:13:02] Karl: How do you navigate this tension between being a scientist and entrepreneur and a environmental advocate all at the same time? Those are three very different roles,

[00:13:11] Mari: I think. No, that's where I disagree. I think it's the same role. I think we are just used to seeing these roles being so separated. Like if you look at the corporations, you look at the CEO of big chemical company or or whatever, big company, they don't necessarily behave like me.

[00:13:30] Mari: You know? They don't talk in the same way. They have their own way of functioning and I think that this is kind of. The all I, I said conventional way, I don't wanna say older or conventional way of doing business, that you have to be something like the CEO of a company, you know, looks like this and this is how I work and this is what I do things.

[00:13:50] Mari: But I think the future will look very different, and I think I'm kind of, even though that I'm old, but I'm still representing kind of the future way of doing business where you can be all of these different things at the same time because your business is. Build on those values, and I think this is where the change happens and, and I'm super happy that I actually can, you know, do all of these different things in one.

[00:14:18] Erum: Yeah. Yeah, that, that's, um, you have a lot of integrity, I would say for because of that. And I think this is one of the whys that I, there's a lot, I have a lot of affinity towards you because you, um, are able to balance, not balance, I don't wanna say that 'cause I, women always are like, how do you balance it all?

[00:14:34] Erum: But more, like, more like, like, you know, you, you're, you're um, you're bold and you're like, you have very like a true north, right? And you're not really falling into a certain model. Um, 'cause you can't, because you'd have to do, you're doing something completely different and it's a, it's very admirable. Um, so let's go, we're gonna switch, switch gears and talk.

[00:14:54] Erum: Finally talk about the applications, right? You, you create this platform, you're using these invasive, um, algae or seaweed species, and you're creating different ingredients for different industries. Food. You mentioned cosmetics materials. Um, what surprised you most about how many everyday products could actually come from ocean biomass?

[00:15:18] Mari: A lot. I'm normally showing this slide to people, um, where I tell the story that. When we discovered oil, like 800 BC in actually in China. And at the same time there are a lot of, um, well, let's say that there is research indicating that at the same time, seaweed was discovered as food. So I think it's an interesting thing that we started to build the modern society on oil.

[00:15:48] Mari: So suddenly the oil, you know, we refined it to chemicals, to fuel and what have you. But we, we all, what we did with the seaweed, we, we, we were just eating it. Like we couldn't figure anything else out. But when you open these two boxes from the chemical points of view. And earlier when I was talking about functionality, they actually contain molecules that are different.

[00:16:12] Mari: They look very different, but they have the same functionality in the final products. And that's what I think that you can build. I'm not saying a hundred percent because that would be silly, but what I argue is that at least 50 to 50 to 60% is something what we have today that could potentially actually originate.

[00:16:35] Mari: From Lange. When we look at the functionality, and I think this is remarkable, I think this is remarkable. We are looking at something that can be a platform, you know, feedstock, and that's what makes me very happy. But we have to be careful, of course, what type of a sea which we use, that we are not, um, taking the good guys from the ocean and, and all of that, but that's, that's another story.

[00:16:57] Mari: But if we just look at the functionality and molecules, I think it's amazing.

[00:17:01] Karl: Yeah, that is amazing. I've heard that if you were to plant. A seaweed patch the size of Texas, that would solve a huge part of the carbon capture problem. Um, I don't know if that's actually true. So listeners correct me if I'm wrong,

[00:17:17] Erum: and actually I did wanna make another comment.

[00:17:19] Erum: You know, this whole idea of like, um, seaweed being used to make a lot of things. I mean, on our podcast we had, um, Julie Marsh of Sway and they're using algae to make, um, biofilm no plastic films. Um, and then we also had, um, uh, Carly helped me with her name from KE Labs.

[00:17:39] Karl: Tessa Callaghan.

[00:17:40] Erum: So we had Tessa Callaghan from Keel Labs, and they're using algae to make, um, fabrics, or actually I think they were using it to make threads to then make, uh, materials and clothing.

[00:17:50] Erum: So yeah, it can, it stretches. I mean, this is, this is why we have this podcast, because you could use biology to make, I mean, almost everything. I argue everything let's, you know, you know, we can, uh, find out where those edge cases are. Um, but um, it's, it's a beautiful thing. Um, so anyway, Carl, I'll let you.

[00:18:08] Erum: I'll pass the mic over to you.

[00:18:11] Karl: Yeah, so we're, you know, you, yeah. So we're talking about, you we're talking, let me just say it this way. You know there's a lot of climate solutions that focus on reducing harm, but your model is also talking about restoring ecosystems while creating economic value. Do you see that as like a new blueprint for environmental entrepreneurship, or how do you see that?

[00:18:32] Mari: Absolutely. A hundred percent. A hundred percent. I think we have to rethink. The way we run business today. So everything, what we do today, how we build the modern society is based on extracting business model. We extract, we make profit on profit, on profit, and I think all very good for your stakeholders if they're happy.

[00:18:54] Mari: Um, but I think this is a wrong way of doing business and I think that's, it's kind of a time for us. To, to look at the regenerative business models. So how do we actually have a positive impact at every single step along the value chain? This is super hard work, but that's why I'm always arguing against the sustainability and E-S-G-E-S-G is there to do less harm.

[00:19:22] Mari: So it's for the big corporations they are, they're like, oh my God, we have to do ESG reporting. How the hell do we do that? And then, you know, they are trying to fix things. But they are very subtle things, what they do, right? It's a very different business when you actually build the company based on those values that you want to look at every single step.

[00:19:43] Mari: It's a decision. You take that decision and it becomes your value, your core value. And I think that's something that, that's the new blueprint. That's why we shouldn't be lazy anymore. And just to say that, you know, let's just follow what we have, I think new businesses definitely should focus on that thing.

[00:20:03] Mari: And uh, and no one is perfect. Like no one is perfect and that's also fine and we should be honest about that, but at least we have to be. Um. Brave enough. Maybe it's bravery as well to look at the steps and, and try to improve.

[00:20:21] Erum: Yeah. Yeah. Bravery, creativity, imagination. Um, which all those things you're doing at Origin By Ocean and this idea of convergence, you know, cross chemistry, ecology, industry.

[00:20:33] Erum: I love to know like, how do you think. About like how scientists and entrepreneurs need to collaborate differently to solve problems at this scale. How do they all come together? You talked about value chain. Share a little bit bit more about how this collaboration occurs.

[00:20:48] Mari: Totally agree. I think we need diversity.

[00:20:51] Mari: Uh, I think diversity in the nature is a great thing. That's why we have amazing ecosystem in the nature because it's diverse. Uh, we should also have diversity in business. I mean, for so long, if we look at the board of the big companies, they are, you know, white males. Um. All very nice. But I think if you want to make a change, why do we always hire people who are similar to us?

[00:21:13] Mari: We of, of course, always fall in love with people that we are seeing our old, beautiful reflection not on them. And you're like, great, we are not gonna have any problems because we think alike. But I think that's also not pushing the boundaries and not pushing the thinking where we should be. So that's why I'm thinking that.

[00:21:31] Mari: You know, we should look at beyond gender and, and all of these things. I think that's also a very conventional way of looking at things, but really diversity, meaning that people have different backgrounds, they have different educational backgrounds, you know, professional backgrounds and life, because in life you, you kind of learn a lot.

[00:21:49] Mari: Um, and, and I think that's kind of, I dunno, I, I see that as very. Inspirational that you can bring these people together because then, you know, things start to happen and, and use the, the soup in a very, in a very different way.

[00:22:05] Karl: Absolutely. So just, uh, like, let's do some future casting. Like if you look at the next decade, what emerging technologies or scientific discoveries do you think could most dramatically be transformed?

[00:22:18] Karl: Uh, you know, in the way we use or, or in the use of, uh, ocean biomass.

[00:22:25] Mari: I think that was actually, that's a very, that's very, very difficult, uh, a question, um, to answer. So I would say that what we will see in the future is that marine biomass can give you solutions to certain things. Uh, I think we will start to understand where it actually makes sense.

[00:22:51] Mari: Argue that using seaweed to produce certain materials is not necessarily the best thing to do. Uh, and I think by doing it, we need to do it so that we learn, and I think we will be in a situation that we have a, a, I call it a platform understanding of. Where should we go with the marine biomass and maybe other biomass or even oil in some cases is a better solution when we actually look at that from different angles.

[00:23:22] Mari: And I think that's why it's always very scary. 'cause in the seaweed world, I think, you know, people become very religious. Like you become a seaweed, you know, religious person and then you think that it will save the world. Unfortunately, I think it's not gonna save the world, but I think, you know, it has its place.

[00:23:41] Mari: We are exploring how big the room is, and, and I think that's maybe something which is, which is something that we will, we will see in the future more.

[00:23:51] Erum: Yeah. Yeah. I think, uh, the Gen Z would call that a being a seaweed maxie. Oh, is that

[00:23:57] Mari: true?

[00:23:58] Karl: Seaweed, Maxima. Seaweed, maximalist. Because because we're talking about seaweed, maxing on this podcast.

[00:24:06] Karl: Yeah.

[00:24:08] Erum: Uh, um, well speak, I mean like, so seaweed, maxing, um, but look, talk about marine biomass. Has there been other invasive species of other marine organisms that have crossed your mind or people that's like, oh, what about this fish or these jellyfish? Or like, have there been other. Marine that cross your mind?

[00:24:28] Mari: Yeah, there are actually quite a, quite a few. Um, and the funny thing is that, and of course I'm not a marine biologist and, and I'm not even trying to be, but what I'm being reading is that the balance within the marine ecosystems are changing so rapidly nowadays that in certain areas you might have a year that certain species, let's say like a parrot fish, um.

[00:24:55] Mari: The population will go up like crazy and they are eating coral, so then you get le you have less coral. So I think these type of changes are fairly, I don't wanna use word normal, but you know, lack of a better word, let's say normal situations, uh, what are happening around the world. I think we are seeing a lot of changes and shifts within one ecosystem.

[00:25:17] Mari: Um, and I think that's really scary that. If you don't spend time there, you don't see it. And if someone is writing about it, maybe it's like not so interesting for many people. But those are really dramatic changes which are taking place as we speak. Um, and not to mention the, the coral bleaching and coral dying.

[00:25:37] Mari: I mean, we have lost so much in the recent years. And, and, um, yeah, I, I, I, I think it's. It's super sad. It makes me very, very sad and I think we are not taking it seriously. Yeah,

[00:25:51] Erum: yeah. Hopefully that changes and hopefully we can have more interesting interventions that can help, you know, bring some more balance and, um, and, you know, products, I mean, being able to use entrepreneurship, environmental entrepreneurship as a tool to help solve some of these problems.

[00:26:07] Erum: It's a great thing, and thank you so much for what you're doing. Um, but now we're at the part of the episode where we're going to ask you our quick fire questions. Um, are you ready?

[00:26:17] Mari: Yeah, I'm ready. I'm ready.

[00:26:18] Erum: All right. Okay. I,

[00:26:19] Mari: I don't know, but I, I, I pretend to be

[00:26:21] Erum: Okay. I think you'll be, I think, let's see.

[00:26:23] Erum: There's only one way to find out. Here we go. If the ocean could send humanity one passive aggressive text message, what would it say?

[00:26:33] Mari: That was actually something I wrote down. I, I have to, I have to admit, because I think it was such a good question. So, um, so I had different type of, of things and then I ended up writing this.

[00:26:44] Mari: I said that, um, all of that, uh, nitrogen and phosphorus, uh, you are flushing in. It's just lovely. It's, uh, it has triggered the most dramatic algae blooms. Uh, my fish are literally breathless with excitement. I know you are busy with your industrial growth, uh, so don't worry about the dead zones. I'm growing in return.

[00:27:07] Mari: It's the least I can do.

[00:27:10] Erum: Oh,

[00:27:10] Mari: snap.

[00:27:12] Karl: That's so good. And I, I think actually that answer bleeds right into our next quickfire question, which is, what's one thing that people blame on climate change that's actually a nutrient problem?

[00:27:26] Mari: Algae blooms. Algae blooms? A hundred percent. A hundred percent. Mm-hmm.

[00:27:31] Erum: Mm-hmm. What's the most surprising thing seaweed can already do that people don't realize?

[00:27:37] Mari: That's very tricky. I would say, um, and this is maybe a very boring answer, but I would say that it's buffering, uh, the acidic CO2, so they actually have a good job to do so. Oceans are absorbing CO2 and that's very acidic.

[00:27:53] Mari: So that's why we have acidification issues with the ocean. So the seaweed is doing the buffering and uh, and I think that's something that it could be, you know, we should remember that this is something that they actually have a function there as, as well.

[00:28:08] Karl: What's one everyday product that should definitely come from algae?

[00:28:12] Mari: I would definitely go for cosmetics and, and nutraceutical.

[00:28:16] Erum: Nice. Nice. And then finally, one ocean organism you think deserves way more hype.

[00:28:22] Mari: Oh, this is my favorite. Uh, Nudie pranks. Nudie pranks, definitely. Um,

[00:28:26] Mari: what are those?

[00:28:27] Mari: They're, they are called also sea slugs. Um, they are very beautiful. Uh, we could talk about them for eighties, but I will just leave it there.

[00:28:36] Mari: Newly pranks. They are amazing.

[00:28:38] Erum: Wow. I never heard, I never heard slug and beautiful in the same sentence, so I will have to look it up. I'll put a link in the show notes.

[00:28:45] Karl: Yeah. And just, I mean, unrelated, but like we have an aquarium in this weekend we bought some snails and uh, we're way more excited about the snails than the fish.

[00:28:54] Karl: So they're not slugs, but you know.

[00:28:58] Mari: Yes.

[00:28:58] Karl: It's so related. Related,

[00:29:00] Mari: yes. Amazing.

[00:29:03] Erum: There's one thing also I wanted to quickly talk about, um, is I remember on LinkedIn that you posted something about a product. Was that a prototype product or is it something that you're, um, kind of putting out to the world? Um, just wanted to make sure we talked about it.

[00:29:16] Mari: Yeah, so those are the demo products, what we are doing for our customers. So we are showcasing how these white powders actually work in, uh, in real life products.

[00:29:25] Erum: Yeah. And then what, what type of, like, what is the functionality. Just curious.

[00:29:28] Mari: Oh, we have tons. So we have, oh my God. We have, you know, cosmetic products, um, that they are helping all kinds of skin conditions.

[00:29:38] Mari: We have hair growth products, uh, we have makeup, which is really like this, this year we are showcasing, uh, around the world the makeup that you can do using our ingredients. Um, yeah, so there are lots of things that we are doing. We can go everywhere and I think that's the most exciting thing is that we want to show that to our customers and give them the ideas because they don't normally necessarily see the potential.

[00:30:02] Mari: So we have to show them the potential.

[00:30:04] Erum: I love that.

[00:30:06] Karl: Yeah. That's amazing. Mari, thank you so much for coming on the GR Everything podcast. This has been such a pleasure to have you on. Really, really appreciate it.

[00:30:15] Mari: My pleasure. Thank you. It was so nice to chat with you. It was so much fun. Thank you.