70. Networking Natural Selection: Adapting and Thriving in the Biotech Ecosystem with Erum and Karl

[00:00:00] Karl: Elizabeth Reynolds, we are so thrilled to have you here today on Grow Everything. We've been trying to get you on for a really long time. We're so excited.

[00:00:11] Elizabeth: I'm happy to be here.

[00:00:13] Karl: you have such an interesting background. You've done stuff in biotech, medtech, mobility, interactive companies, and now you're doing space related work, which, fulfills this intersection that we're interested in. Again, you're more than I am space and biotech. but can you give us your background and how you got into the aerospace industry?

[00:00:36] Elizabeth: absolutely. It's funny. my path has been extremely not linear, which in most industries today isn't particularly unusual, but in the aerospace sector, people tend to follow standard path into the industry. People start as engineers. They excel in advance within the company, come into leadership positions.

[00:00:59] Elizabeth: And that's, the path. I have had a very unusual background. Formally. I studied bio, I've studied, developmental bio, the effects of hormones on heart development in alligators, which is super applicable in the world, I have to say. Um, but I, transitioned out of lab and into, the business world about 15 years ago, and spent a lot of time working with traditional companies.

[00:01:25] Elizabeth: To help them expand, whether that was new locations, international expansion, and then transitioned into the startup world, probably about 10 years ago now, primarily have been the hired adult as, COO for those companies. And I, yes, I've worked across large number of industries. and this has been more product Of me being a mission driven person and saying yes to things that really excite me, and wanting to try new things. when I left my last CEO role, I took some time to kind of reassess what I wanted to do. And really just wanted to spend all day working with entrepreneurs. but perhaps not as an executive in a startup anymore.

[00:02:04] Elizabeth: I started talking to a lot of different accelerators, venture funds, trying to find a place that was a good fit and find something that would capitalize on the breadth of experiences in my background. and instead, I fell absolutely in love with everything that is happening in the aerospace industry today, and don't head 1st and 2 things with starburst.

[00:02:25] Elizabeth: So learning a learning yet another new industry, but 1 of my great joys over the last 2 years has been really building our practice at this intersection of space and biology. the starburst is broadly an innovation enabler for the aerospace industry. We work with government entities, large corporates, NASA, D O D, big aerospace primes of the world to help people understand emerging technologies and innovation.

[00:02:52] Elizabeth: historically we've worked across every aspect of that industry from things like quantum sensors to supersonic jets, but we've done everything except for human flight and some of biological research opportunities in space. that's where I have spent a lot of my time over the last two years.

[00:03:09] Erum: Wow, that's amazing. Elizabeth. I'm so happy that you're on our podcast as Carl mentioned that I'm a nerd out on space. I've space related questions to our other guests to see how. They think about their companies and innovations in relation to, space in general, but I would love to know a little bit more about, work that start, but versus doing to support the bio innovation.

[00:03:33] Erum: you did just say that. Maybe not the studies that are, bio studies in space, but how are you working? in this intersection at Starbucks, when it comes to space and biology and what's and what is the connection between space and biology?

[00:03:48] Elizabeth: so I'll start with that second question first. because I think when most people think about points of intersection, space and bio is not something that they're thinking about at all. And there, there's a lot of overlap. the most obvious of course, being just human bodies.

[00:04:05] Elizabeth: In space, it's an extremely harsh environment, microgravity and radiation in particular affect every single system in our body. there's really direct application to understanding how to keep humans healthy in space to maintain their health, maintain a level of performance so that missions are successful.

[00:04:24] Elizabeth: then we can look at the. scientific side of it, which is that when you remove gravity as a consideration, you actually can learn a lot about how different molecules interact, how our cells express their genes. So there's a lot of fundamental research that can come out of this environment that, holds the promise to really, advance a lot of, Important research here on earth as well.

[00:04:49] Elizabeth: , we also can talk about what we need for long range missions. And this is where I think we get into a lot of the really fun stuff with synthetic bio is when we think about the fact that we have to either bring, find, or make everything we need for these missions. answer is we have to make a lot of things.

[00:05:08] Elizabeth: So we need new means to not only, do research, but to actually manufacture a lot of different materials, from foods to pharmaceuticals.

[00:05:19] Karl: what you're saying. Is just a reminder of how much work we have to do and how little we know One of the things that I often think about when watching a space show star trek or the expanse I just think about the amount of infrastructure that needs to get built for us to move into the stars if we can say it that way into the solar system And we're not going anywhere without biology so tell us more about Starburst contributing to that progress

[00:05:47] Elizabeth: historically, only people who've been looking this work that needs to be done have really been NASA, some of the other space agencies, I mean, that's pretty much it. So as we come into the modern era, we have the opportunity to really capitalize on what's happening in the commercial market.

[00:06:06] Elizabeth: a lot of what we focus on at Starburst is supporting entrepreneurs who are building solutions that are applicable for both government customers and the commercial market, because the needs are often very different. when we look at what's happening in biology in general today, in the bio economy, we see just an amazing rate of development.

[00:06:27] Elizabeth: even looking at synthetic bio kind of broadly, it was, niche, years ago. we're moving towards scale and an industrialization that's really going to change a lot of our everyday existence. we need to tap into some of that to solve these problems that we have in space today.

[00:06:44] Elizabeth: we need to prioritize solutions that have both space and terrestrial application because we need to support commercially viable companies that can continue to grow and develop and build new solutions at a really rapid rate because we're behind if we as humans want to go to space.

[00:07:01] Elizabeth: We do have a lot of work to do. so by tapping into some of the momentum that we see, in the startup world today, and tapping into some of the potential as we start really looking at, things like AI being implemented into biological processes. we have a much better chance of being successful.

[00:07:17] Elizabeth: So are really working with entrepreneurs to try to help them understand both what's needed by NASA today to sustain these longer range missions. What we need for the commercial industry to be able to support. Dozens of people in space, hundreds of people in space at a time from diverse backgrounds with pre existing conditions as we develop out the low earth economy.

[00:07:41] Erum: I there's a big. Controversy that happens when people talk about, space exploration and investing in space, the big controversy that, oh, why aren't you investing in the problems we have here on Earth? And the conversation is, yes, we are developing innovations for space, but there have applications here on Earth.

[00:07:58] Erum: doing both because when you're in space, you have very different parameters. Like you were talking about how biology works differently gravity is constricting so you could learn something new by exploring science and technology in space.

[00:08:12] Erum: So, to that extent, have you seen a recent history or, like, maybe in the past few years, any technologies that were designed for space, but now has applications here on earth? Can you share some of those stories?

[00:08:26] Elizabeth: there are hundreds of examples of that, the truth is that we're all utilizing space every day, all day, we think about our phones, that is the primary example, internet and, GPS are part of our everyday lives today in a way it never has been before, most of the use in space today is still really focused on communication. That's the majority of it, we do see a much greater interconnectedness in the world today, the advantages that come with being able to bring connectivity to really remote areas significant, from a social population perspective The other thing that we've seen lot of in recent years is earth observation. I don't think people realize how far that technology has come in recent years, but we have near real time monitoring capabilities. Over a lot of the earth, we can track individual trees. We can look at pests on those trees, track ecosystem health, all from space.

[00:09:26] Elizabeth: The majority of data that we use to monitor and manage climate change comes from space and can only come from space. but when we start looking the next handful of years, we start seeing a lot more opportunity for some of this research and for manufacturing and we're starting to see this on the satellite side when we see some of these satellites that are being developed to allow for research to be done on board.

[00:09:50] Elizabeth: Research that can be done without a human being in that process. If you just need to see samples go into space and collect that data, you can do that today in a way that is cheaper and easier than you have ever been able to do so before. And as we start looking at. The ISS retiring and being replaced by these commercial space stations.

[00:10:11] Elizabeth: We suddenly have a lot more functionality when we talk again about the research and manufacturing side of space. So, in some ways, this potential as an economy is something new and that we're going to see develop over the next 10 years

[00:10:27] Karl: When you talk about these, private stations that will be going up. I don't know in the next decade or so are they going to be and I don't follow this close enough You're right. You guys will make fun of me because I don't know this but will we be shipping the materials for building these?

[00:10:43] Karl: from earth via spacex or is any of the materials going to be manufactured on site?

[00:10:49] Elizabeth: in the long run. It will be both for now. We need to ship things. and, axiom, who's 1 of the private space station providers will be building off of the. But the is old and needs to be replaced. But in the long run, absolutely being able to manufacture hardware and being able to build from Leo is the most efficient thing.

[00:11:09] Elizabeth: It's the most sustainable thing. a lot of material already in space. There's a lot of space debris today. and there's some really exciting research being done looking at how to not only collect and manage some of the debris, but recycle it and reuse some of that material.

[00:11:25] Erum: was just about to comment on the space debris. ran a fellows program in India 10 years ago, and one of the fellows were looking into space debris. So I ended up learning a lot about that. And I'm just curious. mentioned research, but Are there any projects underway and the space debris

[00:11:40] Erum: program?

[00:11:40] Elizabeth: Yeah, most of the research is still being funded today by NASA, but there are a lot of startups that are approaching this from many, many different angles. the biggest issue is just that costs money to go and capture these objects. it's extremely complex, but this is something that internationally people are tracking quite closely today.

[00:12:01] Elizabeth: and there's still a lot of questions about it. You know, when we talk about the environmental management piece, don't really know what the long term effects are even of deorbiting all of these things. And so we're definitely looking for creative solutions

[00:12:13] Erum: space debris. It doesn't travel very fast. I mean, I'm just trying to wrap my head around. Like,

[00:12:18] Erum: yeah, very fast. how would you capture it and connect it? Or is there a robot that goes out there and or someone with a big baseball mitts, just catching the space

[00:12:29] Elizabeth: really, in different formats, you have to align with that object. So if that object is moving at a certain rate or spinning at a certain rate, to be able to make any sort of contact with it. You have to be moving in the same way. And so that's where a lot of the complexity comes in is just How do you come up next to this object, which could vary wildly and size and shape and trajectory? How do you come up close to it? How do you establish contact? what do you do? And there are people who are working on solutions that look a little more broadly, like way to catch something like a catcher's mitts you I've seen solutions that Are almost more vacuum like how do you deal with some of the small debris?

[00:13:04] Elizabeth: because this is one of the things that I think is non intuitive is that the speed of these objects is so fast that even debris that is really, really small can be moving fast. You have to punch a hole. satellite in a space station a human. we're pretty good at maneuvering.

[00:13:20] Elizabeth: So we don't actually have a lot of collisions in space. But as we continue to send more and more objects into orbit, this becomes greater concern.

[00:13:29] Karl: And i'm under the impression that the majority of the items that are in space are actually these smaller things that are probably under a kilo in weight. Is that correct?

[00:13:39] Elizabeth: Many of them are there are many large objects to, though, there's a really wonderful company called privateer. That is working to really democratize access to space and you can go onto their platform and really actually look at. What is above your head look at what satellites are there?

[00:13:55] Elizabeth: What junk is there? Understand where the Kellogg, where all that comes from, who left it there and how much it would be to manage that debris.

[00:14:03] Erum: if it's okay i'd love to switch gears and talk about manufacturing in space which is something that I am incredibly curious about So you're talking about a lot of different companies. I'm curious how many of them are related to manufacturing in space and if any of them are using biology to manufacture in space at this point,

[00:14:22] Elizabeth: so there have been thousands of experiments done in space today, but most of what has been done in space is research. we really haven't seen. Manufacturing in space yet today. a lot of that capability again, we'll really come with these commercial space stations, commercial Leo destinations, CLDs as we call them in the industry, because that's part of the capacity that they're building in while the ISS today has really extensive equipment, there's a dedicated laboratory there to facilitate this research for the U.

[00:14:58] Elizabeth: S. and for other countries. it's research based and most scientists are uncomfortable stating any sort of conclusion from them because the sample size is so small. there are a lot of people working to address this today.

[00:15:11] Elizabeth: some of the satellite options, Have the potential to facilitate manufacturing space, whether that be biological or semiconductors, we really are looking for more development here and more companies who are interested in doing this.

[00:15:26] Erum: Yeah. I'm really interested to know of the research and I know what their first, small ends, but I'm curious to know, like, what is the most promising or what you're excited about, because at CBI Aveda last year, they had a space biomanufacturing track and they went to all of those.

[00:15:44] Erum: there was a panel that was talking about biomanufacturing and talking about, manufacturing, pharmaceutical drugs and, obviously algae and other microbes, for eating or for clean the space or actually provide oxygen create like an ecosystem within the space.

[00:15:59] Erum: Say shit, I guess, but I'm just curious from your perspective, research is most promising to you? what's going to be the first thing to excite us?

[00:16:07] Elizabeth: answer that from the commercial perspective 1st, because, at the heart of what I'm doing with the work with star versus trying to support commercial growth in the sector, because this is part of what, really drives momentum. what we know the most about today are really crystals.

[00:16:21] Elizabeth: What we know about crystals in space is that they grow in a more uniform fashion. They're larger, they're more pure, which really leads to more effective drug discovery and development. there's been a lot of work done there. And this is a lot of the work that some of the bigger pharmaceutical companies are doing today.

[00:16:41] Elizabeth: starting to see some interesting developments, which are all very early, but some really interesting potential looking at things like treatments for cancer that are coming out of some of the work that's being done in space today. There's also a lot of interest, I think, on the bioengineering side.

[00:16:58] Elizabeth: So stem cells in particular are interesting and near term, potential, area of growth. when stem cells are cultured in space because Gravity doesn't have the same force, they are able to grow in kind a 3D form. and they maintain, their STEM silliness, uh, , they maintain their stemminess, for a longer period of time.

[00:17:21] Elizabeth: So they don't start to differentiate. And so you can get a Much larger batch of applicable stem cells when they're cultured in space, as opposed to when they're cultured on earth, which has the potential to significantly increase the efficacy of different therapeutics. So, those are a couple of the things that really near term.

[00:17:39] Elizabeth: again, I think on the research side, some of the regenerative medicine stuff is the most exciting. there's some contention around this particular phrasing, but when you look at the effects on the human body in space, in many ways, it mimics the effects of aging, the stresses are put on the body.

[00:17:55] Elizabeth: the stress is there for themselves. have a similar effect. So, in some ways, allows you To study things In a condensed amount of time, and you can study, some of the effects anyways of different treatments and different diseases,

[00:18:07] Elizabeth: it's not that space is, an exact analog for aging, but it does offer us some of those same insights in some of the same ways that allows us to study some of these effects in what are effectively healthy humans, because when people come back from space, these effects begin to normalize and they return to a healthy state.

[00:18:27] Elizabeth: and so there's a lot of potential on a cellular level on system level to really better understand how we disease, how we age and develop therapeutics for that.

[00:18:37] Karl: do you know if any experiments have been done for using biology to manufacture, materials in space?

[00:18:44] Elizabeth: looking at different components. We've studied microbes in space a fair amount, microbiomes in space are different. Kate Rubins has actually done a fair amount of research on this. but again, we're still learning more, the same effects that influence the way we produce individual materials are, of course, going to affect us on a system level.

[00:19:07] Elizabeth: we know biofilms grow thicker in space. of potential there. And I think certainly when we talk about food, when we talk about pharmaceuticals, when we talk about new material production, when we talk again about the availability of resources, the need to recycle what we already have, all of this ties in.

[00:19:26] Erum: and so you also mentioned that, the space exploration industry isn't very big. So mentioned NASA, there's some private players, but can you talk a little bit more about the ecosystem and how Starburst Aerospace fosters collaboration between all of the stakeholders within your ecosystem?

[00:19:47] Elizabeth: Yeah, so the aerospace industry generally, has been a lot more insular. Then other industries and so we see is a lot of this being driven by governments. A lot of work being contracted out as large programs, large systems, and so a limited number of companies have been able to participate in that ecosystem to win those contracts to do that work.

[00:20:12] Elizabeth: and that's changed. Pretty rapidly over the last 10 years. And we see an entire new generation of entrepreneurs coming in. how we got our start and a lot of the work we still do today really centers on, Helping to align different stakeholders in the industry to more clearly define needs to understand emerging technologies and define strategy around those.

[00:20:36] Elizabeth: we do a lot to try to help people even just speak. The same language is as simple as that sounds. But we can see it in, conversations where we talk about points of intersection between industries like bio and space, we see the same level miscommunication when we're talking about commercial industry and government as well.

[00:20:55] Elizabeth: everybody has their own language, their own way of looking at problems, talking about problems, and it doesn't always translate. it's sometimes really difficult To understand what is really needed in the industry, and where there are opportunities to enter where there are opportunities to innovate.

[00:21:11] Elizabeth: our goal is to really help advance new technologies and help actually drive them into market. so that we continue to keep a competitive edge.

[00:21:21] Karl: you're based in Southern California. I know you travel all the time. we had a hard time booking you because of your crazy travel schedule. But what do you see as some of the unique opportunities and challenges that are faced by people interested in entering the market in the united states?

[00:21:36] Elizabeth: the U. S. is an amazing opportunity. no matter where we look at aerospace, whether talking about, the more traditional defense applications or whether we're talking about NASA, whether we're looking at, some of these new points of intersection, the U.

[00:21:51] Elizabeth: S. government is the biggest customer. And so there's a huge amount of funding for initial research to support some of these bigger projects. Organizations like DARPA, who are funding a lot of really like kind of moonshot projects that are looking for solutions that are 20 years out, that's an opportunity that just doesn't exist in a lot of other places.

[00:22:14] Elizabeth: We also just have an extraordinary amount of private capital here. when we look at. What's happening in entrepreneurial sector in aerospace broadly, about half of the really large companies of the unicorns in the sector are in California. that's this intersection of, large legacy industry players of government funding of private capital funding and, the existing startup ecosystem that you really need to support development.

[00:22:42] Elizabeth: there are certainly challenges. I mean, the U S not necessarily very collaborative with other countries. And so, it can be really difficult to communicate about things that do have national security implication, the opportunities more more than outweigh challenges working in this ecosystem.

[00:22:59] Elizabeth: And it's where everybody wants to be.

[00:23:02] Erum: that's really amazing. I one of the things I was thinking of as you were talking, so you have NASA, have private companies, you have SpaceX. blue origin have Virgin Galactic. And then you have a lot of startups that are participating in Starburst Aerospace.

[00:23:16] Erum: Can you talk about how they collaborate specifically, like maybe a project that they've worked on, and not to say who did what, but like maybe take us through a journey of. How there's a collaboration happening.

[00:23:27] Elizabeth: mean, we see it all the time. We see it between companies in our accelerator cohorts. I think this is part of what is allowing the rapid growth today is that the industry is more mature. there are not only. Just early stage kind of precede companies there these giant multinational corporations in the government.

[00:23:48] Elizabeth: There's everything in between. biology faces many of the same challenges looking at the aerospace industry. It's extremely expensive. And you need a lot of access to specialized resources, specialized testing, equipment, specialized environments to test whatever technology you're building in a real world environment, access to space, and that first contract, that first opportunity to really prove that your technology will do What you have said it is going to do is, one of the biggest challenges in development.

[00:24:20] Elizabeth: more mature startups, companies that are out like a series a or beyond that are already operating in the market are much more likely to partner and engage with these early stage companies. That may be a specific widget. the startup has developed a piece like 1 simple piece of a component system.

[00:24:39] Elizabeth: And they say, if you put this in, it'll make the system more efficient. Will you try this or it may be a completely new service? It may be new model of rocket engine. it varies quite a bit, but it is the collaboration between these different players that really drives everything because for the larger.

[00:24:56] Elizabeth: Companies, the more mature startups, their ability to interface with these big multinational corporations is part of what allows them to get access to the larger contracts. we see a lot of collaboration and we need to see more collaboration to continue support the economy.

[00:25:11] Karl: correct me if i'm wrong. It just seems like Starburst is really a facilitator in that capacity

[00:25:17] Elizabeth: Yeah, that's a lot of what we do. And on that mission to. Accelerate the rate of technology adoption in the market. that's one of the big hurdles. So we spend a lot of time trying to facilitate those engagements. at this point, we've been operating for about 12 years. And so we have pretty robust network and are able to really help facilitate some of those introductions between not only and industry, but between startups to help facilitate some of that growth.

[00:25:44] Karl: and tell us a little bit more. I focused as being a, managing director at, Starburst. What else are you doing to foster these kinds of collaborations?

[00:25:54] Elizabeth: we operate in a lot of different ways, so we work directly with entrepreneurs. We work with universities. We work with the government. We work with corporations. a lot of that again is really focused on aligning interests. And helping people to understand what the opportunities are in the market.

[00:26:14] Elizabeth: as the market generally begins to shift and we see, some of the pressures that come with this really rapid rate of technology development, by hardware standards, rapid pace of technology development, there's a strategic advantage to incorporating these new technologies.

[00:26:30] Elizabeth: And even for those companies who are able to develop everything in house, who have really amazing teams of scientists, people in, in the entrepreneurial community may be doing it faster. And if you are not one of the first ones to market, it just doesn't matter anymore. we run a lot of startup programs and a lot of these with partners like NASA.

[00:26:51] Elizabeth: we'll help entrepreneurs kind of navigate the market, help them raise capital, help them define their, product market fit, meet with potential corporate customers and those sorts of activities.

[00:27:03] Erum: Yeah. so there's been, a lot of, space agencies have been going to the moon recent years. so the U S just went, I'm curious to know if, any of the startups. Worked with that mission and how,

[00:27:17] Elizabeth: we actually just saw something really amazing happen in the industry, which is the first private company landed on the moon.

[00:27:25] Erum: oh,

[00:27:25] Erum: geez. Wow. Why

[00:27:27] Erum: isn't this

[00:27:28] Erum: in the news?

[00:27:29] Karl: It was

[00:27:32] Erum: You heard it here 1st, a lot of people.

[00:27:37] Karl: in case you missed it

[00:27:39] Elizabeth: Yeah, so there, there's certainly been a lot of increased interest in the moon. And so we've seen other countries, , Do this. India just successfully had a lander on the moon. intuitive machines, which is a private company. one of the more mature stage startups, was one of the awardees of some NASA funding to do this mission to the moon.

[00:27:59] Elizabeth: And so they just successfully landed on the moon last week.

[00:28:03] Karl: so back to iran's question were any starburst portfolio companies involved in this, moon landing,

[00:28:10] Elizabeth: Sadly, intuitive machines is not one of our companies.

[00:28:15] Erum: what's exciting in your world in the next few months? You

[00:28:18] Elizabeth: as I mentioned, I've been spending a lot of time at this intersection of, space and bio. and I'm really excited that we'll be launching new program, probably will have already launched by the time this, podcast airs supporting some of these needs that NASA has. to leave orbit and continue to explore further in space.

[00:28:37] Elizabeth: So we're working with NASA's human research program and Baylor's translational research Institute of space health to put together new program that supports biotech biomed entrepreneurs coming in to help solve some of these problems. And so our goal is to really reach. a new audience and to continue to bring new people into the space ecosystem.

[00:29:00] Elizabeth: Um, and we'll be looking very broadly at what it takes to sustain crew health, mission health in this environment from future medical systems, autonomous medical systems to the sensors, the devices that input that to the production of, pharmaceuticals and therapeutics on back end we're working with Microsoft on this as well.

[00:29:23] Karl: That's amazing. Okay. So that's like the near term. What has you excited in the longer term? in five, 10 years?

[00:29:32] Elizabeth: in 10 years, we will, see commercial space stations. and I'm really excited about that. Because it does. Begin to really unlock space as an economy in a new way, obviously, again, there's a really robust economy there on the communication side on the imaging side. But when we start the full potential space from researching and manufacturing potential, is what will unlock that.

[00:29:57] Elizabeth: I'm also excited for the return to Mars. that may not be within that time window, but that is happening. And when we talk about space as forcing factor for innovation, Mars is that use case where you cannot resupply. And this is a three year mission. how do you manage your inventory?

[00:30:17] Elizabeth: How do you create what you need during that mission and sustain health during that time?

[00:30:23] Erum: This is a man mission to Mars. that's already on the books for NASA. Right?

[00:30:28] Elizabeth: this is certainly, on SpaceX as well. and Jeff Bezos with Blue has talked about Mars quite extensively. So I suspect we will see a lot of activity.

[00:30:37] Erum: that's amazing. Why are we towards the end of this conversation? We should have started with Mars because it's so there's so much to talk about terra formation. For example, is there any companies that you've seen that are exploring that or. Mars, but obviously there are applications here on Earth because there's a lot of barren land on Earth from extracting and, you agriculture.

[00:31:00] Erum: that's not the term, but like, just,

[00:31:01] Elizabeth: yeah.

[00:31:02] Erum: practices. anything you've seen on the terraformation side. throw that question out there.

[00:31:08] Elizabeth: I love what Lab is doing. they're one of our portfolio companies. what Barbara has built Is a bio pod, she's building space 1st, but it's an advanced closed loop system that allows. Plants to be grown in a controlled environment in a way that, encourages the expression of specific properties.

[00:31:27] Elizabeth: And so for plants that are being grown for specific, nutrition, or specific pharmaceutical application, these bio pods allow you to get the most out of. What you are growing, and to grow really rare and high valuable plants in any environment. this has been developed for space, but is being used here on earth for both pharmaceutical and, for beauty application as well.

[00:31:52] Elizabeth: The cosmetics industry is another area that's really interested in some of these unique and high value plants.

[00:31:59] Erum: Wow. Yeah, that's Mars. Are we going to go underground? Are we staying on top of the surface in special pods? What do you think?

[00:32:10] Elizabeth: Um, what I think there's a near term and there's a longer term, but it'll probably be a little of both, but we're a ways away from being able to truly terraform a planet. But when we look at the, the scale of challenges that we face with climate change here on earth, When we talk about environmental management, when we talk about that in space, it's to an entirely new level, whether that be terraforming, whether that be managing the controlled environment on a space station. when we talk about scrubbing CO2 from the atmosphere, core technologies that are developed that are Continuing to be developed for space that also have application here.

[00:32:48] Erum: And mining asteroids, anything on that front.

[00:32:53] Elizabeth: that's probably a ways off still. Although, certainly, it's interesting. And again, when we talk about meeting materials in space, that's is a very good source of materials.

[00:33:03] Karl: I was asking the, more by manufacturing question earlier because in my mind, I want to know, is it going to be cheaper to be capturing asteroids or pulling rocks off of, the moon to build materials or grow them on and I'm sure those calculations have been done.

[00:33:19] Elizabeth: It'll probably be a combination of both. the truth is that we don't know all those answers yet today, though we can produce almost everything that we need today from a biological source. A lot of that hasn't been proven at an industrial scale either. again, that really looks like in spaces and unknown.

[00:33:36] Karl: Yeah. And then, you I know this would be a hard question to answer, but, looking at the universe of space companies that you've seen, are there any that you particularly admire or you're really been inspired by?

[00:33:50] Elizabeth: in this industry. I have to say I am inspired every day by the people that I meet. I've never worked somewhere where there's so much passion for making a better future. And I think that is a really a product of some of the long timelines and some of the collaborative nature of this industry

[00:34:06] Elizabeth: It's rare to meet people who are working today on projects that they might not get to see finished. and the timelines of the work that's being done in this industry. It breeds an optimism and a level of collaboration that you just don't see other places. really love, I've mentioned them before, but I love these research satellites.

[00:34:25] Elizabeth: I think it's really interesting way to look at things. outpost space, which is another one of our portfolio companies is approaching this with sustainability first mission, which I really love, and building, returnable reusable satellites. which when we start to look at, the 10 X increase in satellite launches that we're expecting over the coming years, being able to reuse those is not only important, just from return of sample perspective, but from a material use perspective, from a sustainability perspective, and they're one of the only companies I know that is strongly, strongly promoting that message.

[00:35:04] Karl: the atmosphere has multiple layers, and there's a temperature inversion that happens, which is the weird thing about the atmosphere At the top of that temperature inversion there is life there is a biology there and there so basically there's a microbiome there That is not yet been studied.

[00:35:20] Karl: Am I correct in that or am I imagining that that's true?

[00:35:25] Elizabeth: I've not heard of this. That does not mean that you are not correct. But I don't know,

[00:35:29] Karl: I'm often wrong listeners. Just let me know

[00:35:34] Erum: there's a microbiome across the whole atmosphere though. maybe there's a special microbiome in that section. You're talking about Carl, but.

[00:35:41] Erum: The microbiomes are different cloud formations was talking to someone about that the other day at a cocktail party so. Cloud microbiomes. That's the next pod.

[00:35:51] Karl: yeah elizabeth. I want to be very very mindful of your time. We really appreciate this Was there anything that we should have covered that we didn't

[00:35:59] Erum: Aliens. We didn't talk about aliens. Extraterrestrial life. I shouldn't say aliens. That's that's a slang word.

[00:36:12] Elizabeth: the family paradox could be its own podcast for sure.

[00:36:18] Erum: We'll put a pin on that.

[00:36:20] Karl: Yeah,

[00:36:21] Erum: Can we have you back on? maybe in a few months after the. Program launches, as, the mission to Mars gets developed, I'm sure you guys gets front seat into the planning of that. I mean, I definitely nerd out more than Carl about this, but he is a good conversationalist he doesn't, listen to my musings about it, but I would love to continue this conversation.

[00:36:40] Elizabeth: yeah,

[00:36:41] Karl: and for me it's about the materials I mean, you know, I obsess on the space elevator tether thing which is a materials problem, which i'm fascinated by will you be at symbi beta this year? Are

[00:36:52] Elizabeth: I will be. Yep. I am on my continued mission to bring space to the bio community. I will absolutely be there.

[00:37:00] Karl: That's great. Well, we'll look forward to seeing you there, but thank you so much Elizabeth. I really appreciate it And yeah, we want to have you back. I mean, this has just been such a great conversation

[00:37:10] Elizabeth: my pleasure. And thank you guys for having me.