59. Cementing Change: How Ginger Dosier's Biomason is Paving a Greener Path

[00:00:00] Hector: Jonathan, welcome to the modern masculinity podcast. it's great to have you here.

[00:00:03] Jonathan: Thank you very much for inviting me. I'm looking forward to our discussion.

[00:00:08] Hector: We're going to get into it. And I mentioned in the intro for our listeners, you have a gnarly my friends would call it gnarly, a gnarly past. And, you've lived multiple lives already. I know that doesn't end. And if anything, it probably only prepares you for

[00:00:21] Hector: What you're going to come to or overcome in the future. But what's something that as man a husband a father, we mentioned some adult kids what's real or prescient for you? Like, What's a challenge that you're currently going through right now

[00:00:35] Jonathan: The big challenge for me right now, yes, I'm married and I've been married for 32 years. Yes, I have adult kids, both kids live in New York. I feel for me, because What has happened to me in the past and I'm still going through the after effects is finding purpose in my life and purpose for me iswhy am I here and I have had, and I continue to have multiple entrepreneurial adventures as an entrepreneur.

[00:01:11] Jonathan: I've got four businesses. I'm continuing to pursue reality, developing reality shows, pitching reality shows. I think my Bigger purpose for me is what I set up a couple weeks ago is personal stories and getting involved in trying to help people deal and overcome the difficulties. Personally, from a health crisis, I'm not a therapist, I'm just a person that has been there before, and it's stories from the trenches, these are real stories from a real person that has been there before, everyone's experience is different, everyone's experience is unique to them.

[00:01:58] Jonathan: But my experience could help someone, and that's what I want to that is my purpose now in life.

[00:02:05] Hector: and do you see yourself, a lot of people would say, and once they hear your story and all the things that you've overcome and accomplished, they're gonna say how are you still struggling with purpose? If the guy Sitting on the corner waiting for the bus stop.

[00:02:17] Hector: If he might be going through that same kind of thing. And then there's someone here who is traversed all that. What does that look like for you? a lot of people are saying calling the bullshit on you, but what does that actually look like for

[00:02:28] Jonathan: I think at every stage of your life, you have to redefine and figure out what your purpose is. So for me, In my twenties and my thirties, I was a young man and I was just trying to get on base and see what I wanted to do. And then in my thirties to my forties to my fifties, I found my lane and I was producing movies, producing reality shows.

[00:02:54] Jonathan: I always knew. I wanted to be a producer. And being a producer takes many forms.you're producing your own life. Everyone's producing something. They don't really know about it, but they're producing something. And I know that everyone has obstacles, challenges. it's so cliche to say we wear many hats, are pulled and challenged with anything that we experience.

[00:03:26] Jonathan: And for me, Life now, I'm in my 60s, has changed, so I think that's a good answer. I don't know what you think, but every 10 years, I feel like you have to reinvent yourself or you get

[00:03:41] Jonathan: stagnant.

[00:03:41] Hector: Yeah, both personally, relationships, organizationally, businesses, it's all, said, stagnant. what I'm also realizing, and I tweeted this today, but I said, it seems like the past is catching up with a lot of people that, the world is being squeezed right now.

[00:03:57] Hector: And one of the repercussions is it seems like the things that we've avoided or the things that we've ran away from seem to be coming back up and they seem to be, at least in my experience, throwing themselves into our reality so that we're forced to deal with them, that there's no longer a choice to avoid them anymore.

[00:04:15] Hector: of course, that's my own personal experience. But on the outside, I see a lot of people similarly. Breaking and crumbling under these really challenging circumstances. And I think that the challenge is that it feels like no one's able to take a breath because we had the big global event and then all of the economic things.

[00:04:32] Hector: And it seems like it's one thing after another, not to mention everybody's got to live their own lives and all the stuff that kind of comes in between there. But the reason I'm bringing this up is you were similarly forced it out. To deal with things. It's not like that.

[00:04:44] Hector: Maybe you had your own kind of interpretation of how you caused this for yourself. But otherwise, it seems like these things that happened to you were just thrown your way. And then you were left to I don't want to say we deal with, but you were left to navigate what was afterwards.

[00:04:59] Hector: let me know if I'm totally off base in any of that. And then I'd love for you to share take us back to what kind of happened and how this whole journey of overcoming these immense challenges began

[00:05:09] Jonathan: I think what you're referring to are external forces that we all feel. There's at least two wars that we know of. There are usually more wars that we're unaware of all. What we've got Ukraine, we've got Israel, so that takes, stress, then you've got the economy, then you've got your daily life, then you've got your business, then you've got your personal life, your health life, you wear lot of hats, I'm talking about internal forces, not all these external things that we can't control.

[00:05:46] Jonathan: We have no, ability about the climate. All we can do is observe and do our microscopically small part, so I save water, I recycle, I do these things, I was like living my life. Dream Life as a producer, just sold a movie at Sundance, came back I had what's called myocarditis, which is like the flu or influenza, it's walking around pneumonia, and I was just so Self absorbed that I didn't think anything would happen to me, so I would just weather these things.

[00:06:24] Jonathan: Unfortunately, came home and I had two strokes, heart failure, and as a person like you, pretty much speaks for his livelihood and you have to communicate, I couldn't speak for a whole year. So I had aphasia. guess Bruce Willis has kind of popularized it, but aphasia means places in your brain, the synapses in your brains are not working.

[00:06:54] Jonathan: I got 20 percent brain damage. It doesn't sound a lot. But if you have 20% it is a significant amount, but I'm Managing everything. So when I go to the supermarket, as an analogy, you go directly to the cereal aisle, right? You go in, boom, cereal aisle.

[00:07:12] Jonathan: I have to take a long way around to find the cereal. That's the brain working. So I don't know exactly where the cereal is. I have to hone in on the cereal. That's exactly how the mind works. So for 16 years, I had a bad heart. When I had the strokes and heart failure, the doctors told me you need a new heart.

[00:07:39] Jonathan: And I couldn't speak, and I couldn't write, but I didn't want. to get a new heart because the simple math is heart lasts for about 20 years. So I would be dead right I'm 63. So 64, 65, a heart lasts for 20 years. I'd be dead now. I wanted to play it. out the clock with a damaged heart.

[00:08:03] Jonathan: And fortunately, I was always fit. And I was always healthy. I eventually knew I was prepared. If you can ever be prepared for a new, having heart condition or getting a a heart transplant. I think I was mentally prepared. And then there's all these other circumstances that happened.

[00:08:31] Jonathan: But preparation is can't be afraid when you're prepared. that also is very relevant to any business. You have to be prepared for contingencies and things that are happening. I was not unprepared, so I knew I had a heart transplant, and I got a woman's heart I'm a man, And I'm not a big guy, so I'm like 5'7 I was always pretty light, so I could accept a woman's heart.

[00:08:58] Jonathan: And also, I was dying, doctors don't tell you how bad it is, but I was pretty much dying, I had to get a heart soon than later. And got a woman's heart, again, you think the hard part is getting the heart, after effects of getting the heart. There were lots of difficulties getting the heart, but I survived.

[00:09:16] Jonathan: And right now I feel great. I'm talking to you having a little water, and I want to figure out the next for me. And that's why I think I started this website called Personal Stories. and that is my story and what happened to me.

[00:09:35] Hector: No small challenge. I'm curious if there were times where, you said you were mentally prepared and it was just like, It seems so not easy but that I'm sure that's after, years or decades of processing it. I'm wondering what that was like in the moment what I find to ask myself in these instances is like, I tend to creep into the why me or why did this happen?

[00:09:55] Hector: Or how did I create this? Or I think that's probably what stems from. It stems from it there'sinnate responsibility that I think we all, or at least I carry, responsible for everything that you create. Okay, if that's the case, and all this bad shit's happening, what am I doing to create and cause all this bad shit that is seemingly out of my control?

[00:10:17] Hector: was that ever a thought in your head?

[00:10:19] Jonathan: That is a great philosophical question, right? Why me? What happens next? I personally believe in the random nature of life. I don't think God picked me out, or whoever the entity is, and says you're gonna have a heart attack. I think you can walk And you have a great life, no problems, and BAM! Unexpectedly, you open the door on oncoming traffic and a bicyclist gets thrown over your door. You didn't plan on that. That's random. Did I plan on having, a stroke heart failure aphasia? A new heart. No, no way. But, it's amazing the will to survive, fight or flight.

[00:11:13] Jonathan: It's amazing. The tenacity that people for me. yEah, I went through. depression. I had those suicidal thoughts creep in and it's like, why me? Why me? Why me? But, you have to overcome those thoughts because it's not why me. It's, you have to just deal What you're going through now. You have to focus and the focus is Okay, narrow focus.

[00:11:49] Jonathan: I'm listening to what the doctors are saying to me. Those are your kind of your advisors Any business has advisors. Then you've got, your optimism. I was not eternally optimistic. You can hear the aphasia creeping in. I was not eternally optimistic, you have to be optimistic and you go through these moments of Oh my God, I'm so depressed.

[00:12:12] Jonathan: I can't get out of bed. Everyone. including you and me. You got good days, bad days. You got your kids screaming and yelling and banging the door. And then some days they're not even bothering you. Same thing with your spouse. And, every day. is a chance for do over.

[00:12:33] Jonathan: That's the amazing thing. You have fights with your wife, with your friends, and you know what? Assuming you've got reasonable friends and reasonable family, which is not normally the case, right? But, you can apologize to your wife, compliments go a long way. You can't just harbor of the resentment.

[00:12:55] Jonathan: I did something 35 years ago at my brother's wedding and his wife has never forgiven me. I don't know what I did at that point. I was drunk, didn't know what I did. But she's never forgiven me. So it's wow, that's a lot of resentment to carry around for 35 years. So I choose to, Make every day count.

[00:13:19] Jonathan: Some days are better than others. And every day, you have that chance to redo it.

[00:13:24] Hector: it's a great mindset. And I think that one of the things that we try and bring to our listeners is a new set of programming. Because the mindsets and the programming that was given to, my generation, which is millennials, maybe there are a lot of Gen Xers listening to this, but the mindsets and the habits that we were given from school and our teachers and all the sorts, they don't fit for today's world.

[00:13:48] Hector: They don't work. And to run off of those same programs or to run off of the same ideals is only going to lead to where we're at. And we've talked about on the show, but men suffering four times as much in deaths of despair than women, Suicide, alcohol overdose, drugs, those sorts of things.

[00:14:08] Hector: It's because they don't have, at the beginning, at the base of it, the right way to think about things. They don't have the right perspective. Because I'm coming out from it of a, why me, that's my first thought. And that has to be put away by something like what you're saying is, random chance.

[00:14:23] Hector: And with the benefits of having that kind of mindset is that you do have a new day. And it's just hopefully guys can look to put down some of that old programming. Because. A, it's hard to do if you're trying to do it, but then B, there's so much that we aren't aware of that lies beneath the surface the reason I bring up these external challenges is that I find that a lot of times they are the catalyst for these internal evolutions.

[00:14:50] Hector: If you have the right perspective, if you let them, of course, they can break and crumble you. But I think that's something that I lean into personally, is that for me, challenges offer a new opportunity to get better at something, no matter how painful or hard it is. And perhaps that's just my way dealing and getting through it but at least it provides an opportunity in those challenges.

[00:15:09] Jonathan: I think what we're skirting around is depression, suicidal thoughts. It's coming out in the open, I would say. It's coming out. Women have always been better suited because they've, freedom with their girlfriends to tell them what they're going through. And then there's this, God, it's macho whether, I don't want to admit certain things.

[00:15:37] Jonathan: Mental health is a big deal. I've had physical health. And then I have mental health and being depressed, you have to get figure out your bottom and some people it's alcohol. Some people it's, sex. Some people it's drugs. Whatever your choice of minimizing how you're feeling Is part of not allowing yourself to talk to other friends. in a weird way, I use my core group of friends as sounding boards and talking.

[00:16:16] Jonathan: And I'm like, my wife and other people, why are you talking to, so openly with your friends? okay. If they're not the friend that I think they're on, why am I pretending? Those are called acquaintances. But if they're friends, you have a choice. Hold back, or just tell your friends you're going through.

[00:16:41] Jonathan: And you would be so surprised that your friends have bottled it up. And they're just not... Prepare to talk about what they're going through, but you are a friendly, sympathetic, understanding friend to them and there's no judgment. if you go to these random groups, AA groups or whatever these random groups, you tell people what's going on, but they're not your friends.

[00:17:10] Jonathan: So I prefer to tell my friends. Pretty much everything. Now, whether they want to share with me or not, it's up to them. But the more I tell them, the more they open up.for me, true, but if you have to think about it, whether you're surrounded by friends, family kids are in your bed or your wife, everyone goes to bed alone. deep in your brain, you're deep in your mind, everyone goes to bed alone but, you need to. Understand you can talk to other therapists or friends about how you're feeling. it's staggering the amount of depression, staggering the amount of suicides that are going in this country.

[00:18:00] Jonathan: Every other country. I had a podcast with a gentleman in England. The suicidal thoughts and depression were ramped up like 25%. That's the real number.

[00:18:11] Hector: It's scary because not enough people are talking about it. But I'm hopeful because I've talked to enough people that have said the exact same thing that you've said and that there is this problem with guys not talking to each other and keeping things to the chest and thinking that they're the only one and for me, I've realized that resulted in so much shame and embarrassment.

[00:18:36] Hector: it was all self inflicted, I'm similar to you. I'm a lot more transparent with things. And I have a lot of things to be transparent with sometimes. It gets, people are always I don't know, shocked. But perhaps surprised by how much I'm willing to share.

[00:18:49] Hector: But I find that not creates shame and that shame eats me up. it devours me from the that was the programming that I was on that, . everything needed to look perfect. I think that's actually probably what it was. It's like for my parents everything needed to look perfect outside the house.

[00:19:04] Hector: We needed to put on the front, we needed to make everything look like was, a nice cut manicured lawn stuff. I guess the challenge was that when you go inside, and you look, it's like, there's shit all over the place. It's dirty. It's we all are pretending that we are knowing that we are imperfect, acting like everyone else is different.

[00:19:26] Hector: And I think, social media makes it even worse but guys are walking around, like you said, thinking that they're the only ones not realizing that so many others are going through the exact same thing.

[00:19:35] Jonathan: I think everyone, when talking about your outside look versus your interior look, we're all dealing with chaos, okay? It's managing the chaos. And how do you do it in your business? How do you do it in your personal life? Managing the chaos. You have to focus on most, business or health that you have to focus on one thing at a time to the exclusion of the world to, what's going on Israel, what's going on in Ukraine, what's going on in Georgia, which the Russians are claiming what's going on in the world?

[00:20:18] Jonathan: those are external thoughts. Yes, you can be concerned. Yes, you can give money. Yes, you can anguish. But what is going on with you? What's going on with you is you've got mental anguish, but you have a job to do, you've got a family You've got a business. You've got your health So all these things and you focus you have to actually in a weird way I would remember someone, presidential Debates how do you manage?

[00:20:49] Jonathan: The world Crisis is like, I compartmentalize things, so I deal with it, move it aside, deal with it, move it aside whether you do or not. But compartmentalizing is a strategy to be successful in your life. We know all your friends have their own issues, whether or not they want to share it with you or not, that's up to them.

[00:21:12] Jonathan: But you're an open book, and you're sharing with them, and I think most of your friends will eventually say, I'm going to tell you what's happening with me. Do you know what I'm saying? You can't keep always talking not allow them because you're an open book. You're in a weird way, you're a therapist giving advice.

[00:21:33] Jonathan: And I thinkif we can play it forward to one person, That's enough, tell them what you're doing to deal with your crisis. And everyone has crisis in their lives, but you have to triage your crisises, And triage doesn't mean the sickest people get help. The people that get help are the ones that they can save.

[00:21:56] Jonathan: If you're gurney and bleeding out too late, but if you've got a gunshot wound or something and they can treat it, you get first priority but it's just all about how to manage your life with chaos and assuming the world is random. It's not about you. That's the egotistical person saying it's all about me. That's why, don't really take a lot of food shots or food porn to show with people like, hey, I'm at this cool restaurant. Don't you wish you were with me? Or it's I'm just eating the food.you know what I'm saying? I'm just eating the food. my friends can't indulge the food that I'm eating.

[00:22:35] Jonathan: So why treat them? Trick them.

[00:22:39] Hector: back to like keep this ability to compartmentalize if I'm being honest over the last several weeks from an objective point of view, I probably went through some bouts of depression, right? If I was looking at it. didn't want to get out of bed, don't want to respond to text messages.

[00:22:53] Hector: I used to work out six days a week, seven days a week. I didn't work like just all the classic kind of signs, right? Had to still function, the kids wouldn't let me stay in bed. Obviously there were some, meetings that I took, but underneath it all, it was really I have a lot of tools and resources to try and pull myself out of those places. For me, breathwork is huge exercise. Even like a caffeine detox, but the reason I bring that up is that what I realized in the moment was that I was worried and brewing too much on the outcome instead of what you're talking about, which is focusing on just taking the next step, right?

[00:23:26] Hector: What is the next stepwhat action can I take? And for me, I'm such an overthinker and I'm, trying to find the best, perfect, optimal solution at the expense of taking any action. And I think that for guys, especially something I'm learning is that ability to be decisive, move, take action, likeIf it's not natural, that's something that we should look to bring to our lives, to our relationships, to our households, That ability to take action and move and to be willing to live with consequences too and to be able to, pick up your bootstraps from there and make another decision.

[00:24:01] Hector: But I think that's, for me, was I was so afraid of making the wrong decision that it spiraled into this not wanting to do anything.

[00:24:09] Jonathan: When you're in business, you don't want a leader to be paralyzed. You don't want a doctor. You don't want anyone in your life, Who is indecisive and I know you make a decision come what may and you live with the consequences, dealing with my heart, dealing with my transplant, The day after I got the heart transplant, I'm joking, but at the same time I'm not, they couldn't find my gallbladder.

[00:24:40] Jonathan: And they thought the gallbladder affecting the heart. And then it's okay, let's take out the gallbladder. I had a choice. Hey, no, I'm going to live with the gallbladder. It'll get better. Or let's take the gallbladder out. I still think the gallbladder... is important. It's deals with certain things in your liver.

[00:25:00] Jonathan: But at the same time, you have to be decisive about things. You debate, you think, and then act. And I think that's the best purpose in life. You can always second guess yourself. And I know that, at that moment, based on these circumstances, I made the right decision. Okay, now in the future you could say you know what you made the wrong decision, but I would always go back to the fact that at that moment in time, based on all the facts that I thought were relevant, I made my decision, whether it's right or wrong. and then you just, again, it's all about confidence. Don't second guess yourself, being optimistic and dealing with depression. Depression is, God it's poor me, the world is against me, for me, and yeah, it's good to get there, but there has to be an internal mechanism in your brain when you're doing your deep breathing.

[00:26:01] Jonathan: And for me, my medicine is working out. Like you. I work out seven days a week. I walk seven days a week. I do everything in sevens, okay? It's seven days a week. I do walk an hour a day. Thing is, I have a dog, so that really is he really walking or he's taking the dog out? Doesn't really matter.

[00:26:22] Jonathan: I'm walking. Okay, and then I'm working out and then your energy when you focus is actually better. You're not dilly dallying, you're not, having your coffee thinking, you just work and you can do more work when you're focused than if you're unfocused and all the distractions, turn off the distractions.

[00:26:48] Jonathan: Work then turn on your distractions. I would say a perverse way for me is it's self indulgent, you have to break that cycle unless you're a clinically depressed person. I can't help people who are clinically depressed and suicidal and they want to commit suicide.

[00:27:08] Jonathan: again, I'm not a therapist, so I'm just telling you how I did it. When I get depressed and I don't want to get out of bed, there are reasons to get out of bed. You've got your kids, don't have any kids at home, but I got a dog. So the dog will poop and pee in the room if I don't walk the dog.

[00:27:27] Jonathan: That's my choice. I'm going to take the dog out. I feel like, yes, There's a shut off valve that, you know and you have breathing exercises and then you have, again, see in Toki, you have to like a little meditation, when you're breathing,I recommend breathing to every living person because sometimes you forget to breathe. nOt just shallow breaths, but a big hearty breath and it stills you, it focuses you, And then you can go to your work and then, you've got all the other things and all these other distractions, but you have to compartmentalize things that you need to do. Today.

[00:28:11] Hector: Yeah. I think that's a great point, that there is obviously, clinical depression and obviously there's, Biochemistry and all those sorts of things that are definitely a reality. But then there is also let's just simplicity's sake, call it, self induced depression, which is what you talked about.

[00:28:27] Hector: self loathing it's almost like this downward staircase it starts and then it reinforces this loop and it goes down and down. I think that what you're also mentioning is There's kind of an internal and an external mechanism to pulling ourselves out of that, that there's an internal dialogue that needs to happen.

[00:28:45] Hector: And then I found that the catalyst is usually, some sort of physical mechanism, right? Cold water exposure. Exercise grounding. Like I always thought it was, people Going out and putting their feet in the dirt was like weird, but I can't tell you how much it helps. It's just, like just things like that where you've got to make the decision though.

[00:29:05] Hector: But then when you make the decision, and then you do these things in tandem, if there ever was a hack you can hack your way out of it. That

[00:29:13] Jonathan: in The paper today, Matthew Perry died. You'd think he's getting a million dollars a show. How bad can life be? But he was an addict. He was clinically depressed. He had a addiction to alcohol and drugs. I don't know how you fix those people. But the most of us have, again, some form of self. But you have to wrap those self doubts away and say, you know what I'm doing my podcast today. I have to be on my game face. I have to look good. I, I'm on camera. Game phase. And being smart about your work and your health is, critical to who you want to be.

[00:30:06] Hector: being said, the Jonathan, do want to say that I think there's something to giving yourself a break in those moments too,

[00:30:13] Jonathan: I think rewards, we didn't even get into that. I think you have to give yourself, I don't know if you have Apple watch.

[00:30:21] Hector: I remember, in the last couple of weeks, there was live call that I. Was supposed to be running and, going back to my mom, she was that very much of that mindset. Put your game face on. You've got a game today. Let's go, we suck it up sort of thing.

[00:30:33] Hector: And I just did not have it. And I knew that if I went on there, it would not be good for the group. And so I texted my cohost and I said, Hey,I'm gonna sit this one out, and I'm glad I did. Yep. Because it gave me a little bit of a break. And also I had to realize

[00:30:47] Hector: It was just another emblem of for me specifically of that pressure that I was putting on myself. think that's also important to say to that. Despite that there are going to be moments where I think that grace is also important in those times because at some point we're going to have to deal with it.

[00:31:03] Hector: So sometimes those moments to step back and take a break actually allow us to process those things, as opposed to if I would have been on the call, I would have compartmentalized it. And when the call opened up again, maybe some mold grew in there or maybe some, something happened in there while it was tucked away.

[00:31:18] Hector: I think that's also just important to say to the guys who are listening right now.

[00:31:22] Jonathan: I admire that you had the wherewithal to cancel and realize that this is not the right situation that you're putting yourself and again, I'm not your therapist but I'm saying as a therapist, you would think, try to figure out what was causing you so much anxiety because anxiety, if you can channel anxiety into positive action. If you're prepared for things, and I don't know what was going on

[00:32:00] Jonathan: with you in your world.

[00:32:01] Hector: there was a lot going on. I heard recently too, is that these types of depressions, or these moments of almost I've heard them called like dissociation, There's these moments of just wanting to dissociate with our previous programming, because it was interesting.

[00:32:14] Hector: I looked back at my habit tracker and I was tracking. Maybe six or seven habits. And for a whileI was on it. I was doing, out a 75 particular habits in a week, I was doing like 69 or 70. So I was just like totally on it, exercising every day, reading breath, the whole thing.

[00:32:30] Hector: And then over the last month. None of it. Didn't track any of it. I looked at my last month and it was just blank, and this is something I'd been doing for a full year. And I was initially a little upset at I was upset at myself for like, why aren't you tracking But I also realized that there was weird subconscious intentional want or need to not do it. So I just let it be, I had a mentor Tell me that maybe you're not tracking what you're meant to be like. Maybe this is not right or aligned.

[00:32:55] Hector: And so see what's comes and what emerges and that in these moments of despair, depression, they actually allow us to come out of it. A new man, right? We can go into the cave.

[00:33:06] Hector: This whatever, let's call it a boy and you can come out of the cave, a man and come out with a different everything.

[00:33:13] Hector: And I think that those moments also create opportunities for that as well.

[00:33:19] Jonathan: everyone has lists. Whether they are written lists, mental lists, you have a list of things you want to do or accomplish. And maybe that list that you were trying to accomplish was not right. It was an artificial list, so it has to be, what are the things you want to achieve every day? and I think every day, you want to be truthful to yourself.So certain people and maybe you're that, one of those people that, you're so introspective and you just analyze too much and you just need to give yourself a break and then it was just an artificial, self imposed position.

[00:34:01] Jonathan: Lists that you were tracking and they, maybe that was not who you are. anD so I feel like, you are a man of action and people expect certain things from you, but sometimes you can't live up to those expectations. but that's okay.

[00:34:22] Hector: that actually, when you say that, that seems like the word like that doesn't seem okay. Like my nervous system reacts as if I don't meet someone's expectations I don't know, death is what it feels like rejection, abandonment. And so when you say that, that is what it is.

[00:34:35] Hector: other people's expectations that nobody is actually putting on me except myself.

[00:34:40] Jonathan: Exactly. I think everything is, Ones to threes. It's every day I'm going to do something and then you give yourself a break. But I'm like, you have a business, you have a family, you have friends, you have. family, moms, dads, relatives, and the expectations that you put on yourself, they're not putting on you. I think you're a very complicated young guy in the sense that, you have these expectations of yourself, Because if you ask your mom, how am I doing? It's great.

[00:35:17] Jonathan: I love you. You're good. her expectations are so simple, your kids, I just want you to play with me and put me to bed and wake up with me, their expectations are important to them, but in the big scheme of things are, you could do that. So it's like the expectations you're putting on yourself is usually related to money.

[00:35:41] Jonathan: And, those expectations are. How do I make more money and how do I achieve the success that, our society has put us under, but, you know, this is a uniquely American thing, right? Other countriesthe rest of the world. They have their job and maybe it's eight hours a day.

[00:36:06] Jonathan: They work for their job and they normally have three months of vacation, so they get so much vacation that they recharge. We have no boundaries, that we should maintain those boundaries, you can't work.

[00:36:21] Jonathan: I used to work 12 to 15 hours a day, and I'm young and I can do this, who am I proving it to? I'm proving it to me. I'm just proving it to me. you compare with your friends or your wife, Hey, I work 15 hours a day. Don't bother with me with anything else.

[00:36:40] Jonathan: They've got their expectations of what you need to do and, throw the garbage or, stupid things. But we You have to understand what society has imposed on us, and I would say very little. The expectations are of who we are and what we want to be, and you have to have some of As you pointed out, grace, you have to be a little kind to yourself because I was talking about rewards and it's when you work out, when you exercise you focus for three hours or two hours you have to take a break because your mental capacity of focusing too long, you just go off in, into almost like a dreams like state and you're not focusing.

[00:37:31] Jonathan: So chunks of. concentration and then walk around and then come back to your work. we impose this on ourselves, and then people get in depression or they choose alcohol Or drugs or, in order to clearly escape,

[00:37:55] Hector: Yeah. That's really what it is there. They avoid or escape. And the same thing as opposed to that song that my son sings you can't go over it. You can't go under it. We've got to go through it. It's it's a it's the we're going on a bear hunt song.

[00:38:13] Hector: That's the name of it. And it's a really funny, it's quirky song. And I remember the first time I heard it, I thought this is silly, I've heard it more and more. I'm like, wow, there's a lot of wisdom in this, we can try but we're gonna eventually,it's gonna come back and you're going to have to reckon with those things at some point.

[00:38:30] Hector: And we might as well figure out how we can do that in a way that allows us to, move past it. Like you said, compartmentalize it, and move past it, put it behind us in a real way.

[00:38:40] Jonathan: I don't want to say you compartmentalize it to the exclusion of everything else. You have your daily tasks, weekly tasks, yearly tasks that you'd like to achieve. I also think, and I know for sure for me, you have to write down your goals. Even pirates have a map. thEy're like randomly in the seas find the gold.

[00:39:06] Jonathan: They have a map. Everyone has to, as painful it is as simple as it is, write down your goals and see one year to another year, I'm looking at my own goals in front of me. read my goals every day or every other day. This is what I'd like to do this year, can't do it today.

[00:39:27] Jonathan: This is what I'd like to do. for this year and you're part of my goal, right? I'd like to have a hundred podcasts, as a guest. So how do I achieve that? Whatever your listeners are thinking, if it's just their business, if it's just their other.

[00:39:45] Jonathan: agAin, cliche, all the other hats that we wear, just going, it has to be, you have to have honestly, honesty with yourself. And I think you're really, on that track of being honest with yourself, but at the same time, give yourself a little you can't just do it six months and then take a break for six months maybe in your case, it's like I was on track keeping all my goals organized and I was hitting, 90 percent of my goals and then you.

[00:40:18] Jonathan: Came off the tracks.those are self imposed goals, in your own way, your own goals, keep on track, because sorry to say it, ultimately, What is your risk reward? People want more money than they can ever use in their life.

[00:40:37] Jonathan: I've got lots of friends. They want more and more. At the expense of self, at the expense of their health. But they want more. What is more? And you have to understand what you want. and it's so simple, but hard to do. And I go back to my, original.

[00:40:56] Jonathan: prEmise.There's a randomness to life, there's a randomness to I don't know, wars and life. So you are and everyone is so important to themselves and their family, but you're a cog, everyone we're a cog in the wheels of life. what do you want,how much time are you going to put into your religion your personal life. And it's very hard to do, and that's why I think people veer off into a way to escape, because it gives you a certain freedom. When you're drunk you are oblivious to life's chores.

[00:41:36] Jonathan: When you're, having certain, addictions, you're just... Living that moment and living those addictions. eventually you have to come down to earth and then you have to just deal with it. So I don't know is a very philosophical questions. And I want to give you some, concrete answers all these entrepreneurs, all these listeners that you have, they have to be optimistic.

[00:42:03] Jonathan: because optimism is the one quality most associated with success and happiness. Being optimistic, you have to get out of that funk. That you're living in and stop questioning yourself because with all the facts on the table, make a decision at that moment in that time and don't regret it. You have to deal honestly and objectively with yourself,

[00:42:32] Hector: It better. I love how we came back to the kind of the randomness, and what I love about that randomness aspect is that it allows you to give that fresh start which makes it okay to screw up, which makes it okay to make the wrong decision, even if it, to make the decision.

[00:42:48] Hector: To make a decision. I think it allows for that possibility,

[00:42:52] Jonathan: I just want to add one thing what we're saying is. Think before you act and then decisively. Think what the consequences, then you have to go for it,think. Act and then fortune favors the brave, that's an all adage. You don't take chances

[00:43:10] Hector: if people want to go deeper in your world, Jonathan? I know you mentioned that you just launched a new website. Can you talk a little about that and where people can find out more about you?

[00:43:17] Jonathan: Yeah, I launched a website called personal stories. net and It's my story and it's an open forum for other people's stories I'm focusing mostly on healthit's a way and the internet has changed, the way of, interacting with people, social media has changed.

[00:43:37] Jonathan: So it goes back to, it's a forum, talk about. Your health, whether people want to comment, whether people want to do it, anonymously and tell your story. And also I share with you my story.I had an issue with what's called an ICD, which is my implantable defibrillator. had one of those for 16 years and it shocks you.

[00:44:01] Jonathan: Again, it's ultimately that caused me to get new heart and I just feel it's a place for me to share my thoughts and right now it's focused mostly on health related, but anyone could find a little bit about more about me and if they want to share their stories, they can share their stories.

[00:44:25] Hector: And we'll link that up in the show notes. So go check that out. Y'all fellas, we appreciate you being here and sticking with us throughout this. If you Got some value out of today, which I'm sure you did. We would love and appreciate a rating or review wherever you get your podcast. And if you know a guy who can benefit from listening to some of these conversations set in this episode, I I just, there's we, as men do not talk about it enough, but I know that if we can start to have these conversations or we can make it more normal to have these types of conversations, then these don't just have to be isolated to the podcast.

[00:44:57] Hector: As always, we appreciate you being part of the family. Thank you. And the tribe. We'll see on the next one. Later, y'all.