41. From Spinal Taps To Cellular Apps: Programming Life With Mark Kotter

[00:00:00] Hector: Podfam, what's going on? My name is Hector Santhia Esteban. I am your host. I've spent much of the last decade trying to figure out what makes a good podcast. And then starting a show was really my way of trying to give you all of the things that I've learned, all the failures I've made and, also provide you some, some tools and resources and maybe connect you to some cool people along the way.

[00:00:22] Hector: Today's episode is just me though. And I wanted to talk about something that's come up and emerged in a lot of our conversations. And that's this idea of knowing who your audience is, because whenever, whether we're starting a show or coming over and taking over a show and consulting or even just thinking about strategizing on any sort of podcast, my very first question is who is the podcast for?

[00:00:48] Hector: Because everything else. It's going to be determined by the answer to that question. And so I really wanted to take some time and we've iterated it. On a lot of episodes here, but I wanted to take some time again to just create some new content, refresh it and update you with some, new thoughts and new ideas.

[00:01:07] Hector: And the reason that this is important though, is, is still the same. And that's because there are. A lot of podcasts, you know, people always, you'll hear the gripes and complaints saying, Oh, there's too many podcasts and yada, yada, yada, whatever, screw them, forget them. What they say is not really based in anything other than them hearing themselves orto post something.

[00:01:30] Hector: What I would share with you though, is there are a lot. And the challenge is, is that if you are not able to stand out from the rest of them, then it's going to be a real. uphill battle for you to be able to cultivate and grow enough of an audience. And so defining who this listener is, is so critical

[00:01:50] Hector: for you to actually resonate with. And so we're going to talk a little bit about what are some of the things that you need to know and how might you be able to do that if you don't do this, if you don't have clarity, you're going to end up being vanilla and you're going to see stagnation in your numbers.

[00:02:08] Hector: You're going to even see your numbers start to dwindle. And I've even had people, where their podcast literally dies not because They stop creating content, but because literally the audience just stops listening to where they are So out of touch with what their listeners want that people literally stop listening and their downloads go from a few hundred to a hundred to fifty to twenty to And it's going in the opposite direction And the only reason that that happens is because the host is not thinking about what does the listener actually want to hear.

[00:02:46] Hector: for you, you're probably thinking, okay, well, like that sounds great. And yeah, I, I know who my listener is, or I know who my audience is, or maybe you don't, maybe you don't know who your audience is. I want, I want to give you a couple of ways to get started though. before we do that, there are three things that you need to know about them.

[00:03:02] Hector: You need to know their demographics, some of the basics. You need to know what we call psychographics, and these are some of their interests and more of their personalities. And then the last thing that you want to think about is what we call their avatar. And this is more than their demographics, more than their psychographics and their interest.

[00:03:21] Hector: This is what are they going through in life? Where are they at in their life? what real experiences do they have? What experiences are they looking for and how can you be middle to that, right? How can your content be the bridge to those places? And so let's dive into each of those and we'll go from kind of,basic to more advanced if you will.

[00:03:44] Hector: The first one is demographics and these are what I would say like are the simple things. These are like how old are your listeners? and some of you guys make it, well, my show is for everybody. And the challenge is, is that if you make a show for everybody, it's almost for nobody.

[00:03:59] Hector: And the reason is because a 25 year old. Is looking for and is listening to something that is totally different than a 35 year old and a 35 year old might be listening to something that's a little different than a 45 year old. They're definitely listening to something that's different than a 55 year old.

[00:04:17] Hector: when you have and an understanding of how old, where do they live, what. Gender, do they identify with all of these sorts of things help to create a lens through which you can know, is this going to be a good piece of content? Are they going to like this? So do all the basics, anything that someone could, put onto a form, or check a box, try and fill in as many of those.

[00:04:45] Hector: Age income, education, industry, like all those sorts of things that are very defined variables or they're helpful because now with just that, you can start to put together content, topics, ideas, guests, all the types of things that are going to resonate with that listener.

[00:05:04] Hector: But I would encourage you to go. A couple of steps deeper, but the next layer and the next step to go deeper to is within their psychographics. And these are thinking about what are the interests, what are the mindsets, what are the beliefs that these listeners have? You know, the obvious ones are like, your political or your religious beliefs.

[00:05:24] Hector: And obviously, those types of things are, sticky with a lot of people. But the reason I bring them up now is because. no matter what side you're on, you're going to look for and resonate with a particular type. Of content than if you were on the other side.

[00:05:37] Hector: just thinking about where your people lie on the different spectrum, then it doesn't have to be politics. It doesn't have to be, you know, religion. It could be health or business, entrepreneurship, employment, right? It could be like, all these different beliefs that people have.

[00:05:53] Hector: And if you know now. their demographics and how old they are and where they live. And you also know what they believe in, are they free thinkers? Are they more people by the book? Are they someone who is really, education oriented really loves The foundations that that brings the stability of the institutions, Or are they more free thinkers and radicals or, I'm not casting any judgment about what is right. All I'm saying is that those people, depending on what side of the spectrum they're on, are looking for different types of content. And if you know that now you can make content that those people are going to resonate with.

[00:06:32] Hector: The last layer, is once you know their demographics, some of their basics, and then you know what they believe, you know, where they are, where they live, who they are, because, you know, their beliefs, the next level is to think about, well, what are they going through?

[00:06:45] Hector: What stages? what experiences, what, events, are they going through a breakup? Are they looking for a new job? Are they starting a new business? Are they getting married? Are they having a kid? all of our listeners are going through different times in our lives.

[00:07:00] Hector: and a lot of times That's the commonality. That's the common thread. And so when you can go these three layers deep, when you can really think about, who and what and how old and what do they believe in and what are they going through? Well, now you, you know exactly what to make for that person, it's pretty clear what those people are going to want and resonate with.

[00:07:20] Hector: hopefully that gives you a little bit of a lens of what to be thinking about and what to be finding out. the last thing that I would say is, well, some of you guys are asking me, like, how do I do this? How do I figure this out? So let me run through this quick because I've already talked a little longer than I had wanted to, and I've got to hop into an interview that's going to get started in just a few minutes.

[00:07:36] Hector: So I promise I'll be brief on this one. But we'll probably do a follow up episode. If you guys want, let me know on X or on LinkedIn or even Instagram. If this is something that you want to follow up episode on, but there's three ways that really, you're going to figure out this information. The first way that you're going to figure it out is you're going to guess, you're going to decide if you're brand new, you don't have a ton of established listeners.

[00:07:55] Hector: You don't know who your audience is. Well, that's great. And that's fantastic. And there are a lot of podcasters that are in that place because they started their show, they look on their downloads and they're like, somebody's downloading it. But they don't know who that is, so that's okay. Or if you're just starting out or you haven't launched it's great to decide something because at least that's a starting place.

[00:08:14] Hector: Now it doesn't mean that you're going to keep that. It doesn't mean that it's going to stay like that forever, but at least you can decide and say, this is the content I want to make content for this type of people who believe in this and are going through this. Then that's going to give you a really good starting point.

[00:08:30] Hector: The second thing though, is once you've got some listeners and you've started to identify them, maybe they've reached out to you on social media. maybe they're kind of in your network or connected to whatever it may be. You can reach out and you can listen engage with those people, you know, have conversations with them and listen to them one on one.

[00:08:46] Hector: you can create like a focus group of one, or you can create a small focus group of a few people. listeners and hop on a quick call or a zoom or something like that. And just ask them questions. AndI got this from Jack reciter, but the questions that you want to ask them are not necessarily like, what do you enjoy?

[00:09:02] Hector: at least you don't want to make all of the questions about how great your stuff is. I think that is one good question is like, what makes you excited or what makes you want to listen? But what you want to figure out is what makes them stop listening. Are there things that make you turn it off?

[00:09:14] Hector: Are there topics that you would never listen to or that you're not interested in? And figuring out that information is also equally helpful. since you have these people in a, one on one or a small group setting, you can really get some great insight from those people.

[00:09:30] Hector: And then the last thing is that if you've got enough of an audience, You got enough of a following or community that you can start to survey them and you can have them call in or you can have them reach out to you on social or you can set up a form or something on your website that takes this feedback.

[00:09:44] Hector: But getting that feedback really, really helpful. were one of our biggest shows. We have a form that, we set up we mentioned to listeners on almost every episode where we tell them, Hey, we would love your feedback can you give us Some insights and people will write paragraphs and paragraphs of stuff gives their perspective.

[00:10:00] Hector: And that's what we're able to get is a really deep and thorough perspective from a listener who is really engaged. So a few ways that you can go out there and actually get these answers as well. I know I'm looking at the clock here and we've been going for. Not as long as I can go, but this is really here to just give you a taste, right?

[00:10:19] Hector: this is just to kind of scoop into the bucket a little bit and if You guys want more reach out to me. We'll do a follow up episode. I'll put together some resources and we can kind of go deeper on this topic. But was thinking about what is a theme that's emerging from a lot of the conversations that I've been having over the last couple of weeks.

[00:10:37] Hector: And this was definitely one that came up. So appreciate as always for, being here, you made it this far. We would love and appreciate a rating or review wherever you get your podcasts.

[00:10:47] Hector: And if you know somebody who has a podcast or is thinking about starting one, we appreciate you growing the tribe together. So send them this episode or send them an episode that you think they might like. if anything comes up, you have questions for me personally, can find me on LinkedIn on ex formerly Twitter and on Instagram at Hector underscore podcast, eternally grateful for all of you who would spend some time with me today.

[00:11:10] Hector: We'll see on the next one. Later, y'all.