Why Your Google Ads Performance Max Campaigns Fail

kasim: [00:00:00] our optimization schedule is now three week sprints kasim: [00:00:02] Don't touch it for three weeks stack all of your changes at once kasim: [00:00:05] Don't touch it again for two to three weeks stack all of your changes at kasim: [00:00:07] once and people that are thinking with their PAX campaign, they're just kasim: [00:00:10] resetting, learning over and over again kasim: [00:00:12] They're never getting outta learning phase kasim: [00:00:25] Welcome to your daily Google news kasim: [00:00:26] My name's Kasim and I'm joined with our strategy team, most of our strategy team kasim: [00:00:30] anyway and we're making this a weekly recurring theme where we bring in the best kasim: [00:00:35] of the best, our best and our brightest kasim: [00:00:37] And we're gonna talk about topics that should be near and dear to your heart kasim: [00:00:40] And today we're going to throw our skunks on the table kasim: [00:00:43] We're gonna open the Kumo kasim: [00:00:45] And talk about every failing performance max campaign we've had and maybe more to kasim: [00:00:49] the point , and more productively, why we think they've failed and what we can kasim: [00:00:52] do in the future to help mitigate that kasim: [00:00:53] And so a little context that I'll provide before we dive into kasim: [00:00:57] the nitty gritty is performance kasim: [00:00:58] Max is new kasim: [00:00:58] They've been testing it since 2019, but they rolled it out publicly kasim: [00:01:01] It's this new thing that we have to contend with and Google's education kasim: [00:01:04] What they tell us to do is wrong kasim: [00:01:06] And so we're, seeing insane performance in a lot of instances, kasim: [00:01:11] but we're also seeing some really kasim: [00:01:13] Troubling surprises and some difficulties, some things kasim: [00:01:16] that are hard to contend with kasim: [00:01:17] And so we're gonna talk about those and what I'd love for everybody on this call kasim: [00:01:20] to think about is not just like what failed, because sometimes it's fun to kasim: [00:01:25] play the crash and burn game and just tell those stories, but more constructively kasim: [00:01:28] If somebody's watching this video, how can we protect them from making our mistakes? kasim: [00:01:32] And, we were to build a beware of list, Which maybe I'll start to do, kasim: [00:01:36] actually, while we're talking about this, let's build our beware of list kasim: [00:01:39] And by the end of it, maybe we can have something that people could kasim: [00:01:42] actually have and take with them kasim: [00:01:43] So who wants to go first? kasim: [00:01:44] Who has a crash and burn? kasim: [00:01:46] Just fire and brimstone PAX kasim: [00:01:48] I'll start with just one kasim: [00:01:49] Don't run any PAX for any Legion kasim: [00:01:51] We have not been able to make it successful in two Legion accounts, kasim: [00:01:55] but I will share why we feel that and why in one account it's working kasim: [00:01:59] So the two accounts that we were running PAX bar, they don't proper EO kasim: [00:02:03] and, their website is not categorized in Google or proper keyword kasim: [00:02:08] So as we know, Google PAX works or advertise on seven channels, kasim: [00:02:12] the channel is search channel kasim: [00:02:14] And it has a part of DSA kasim: [00:02:16] So PAX also runs on DSA kasim: [00:02:18] So dynamic Sur ads kasim: [00:02:20] If your website is not coming on proper or relevant keyboards, kasim: [00:02:24] then PAX will not work for you kasim: [00:02:26] Because it'll go after keyword that your website is working on in organic EO or kasim: [00:02:32] on that Google has categorized you for kasim: [00:02:34] So, that's why my two Legion account fail because the website kasim: [00:02:38] was not on Google search console kasim: [00:02:41] They haven't categorized it or they haven't indexed kasim: [00:02:44] Properly kasim: [00:02:45] And then it worked on one because they have good se authority kasim: [00:02:50] like do domain authority kasim: [00:02:51] Their website is ranking for good keywords kasim: [00:02:53] So the one thing that we use to check if the website is properly crawled kasim: [00:02:58] or properly categorizes, simply put the website URL in keyword resource kasim: [00:03:03] tool and just put the URL and you will get to know what keywords Google kasim: [00:03:07] is, categorizing your website for kasim: [00:03:10] So if all the keyboards are relevant, then kasim: [00:03:12] It's not a hundred percent, but the PAX campaign will work for your account kasim: [00:03:16] And just to clarify, keyword research tool is in Google ads kasim: [00:03:19] You just go to tools and settings and you can find it there under keyword planning kasim: [00:03:23] Oh, Carl, that's a value bomb from hell right there kasim: [00:03:25] So if you're watching this go into Google ads, look at the Google's kasim: [00:03:29] keyword research tool drop in your URL kasim: [00:03:31] And if the search terms, Google comes back and says, Hey, kasim: [00:03:34] we're gonna advertise for this kasim: [00:03:35] If those are relevant, you're in good shape kasim: [00:03:37] If those aren't relevant, then you've got some work to do kasim: [00:03:40] And that's four seconds kasim: [00:03:41] Like there's no excuse not to do that kasim: [00:03:43] It's almost like seeing how the algorithm thinks about your website kasim: [00:03:46] Like yeah kasim: [00:03:46] Seeing how it sees that's exactly right kasim: [00:03:48] What would you do in situations where they are relevant, but all kasim: [00:03:51] you're getting is bot traffic kasim: [00:03:52] That's what I was kinda going for kasim: [00:03:54] How'd you avoid all the bots on Carl? kasim: [00:03:55] What's your secret? kasim: [00:03:56] Caden? kasim: [00:03:57] I have a thing that I'm testing right now and I will let you guys know kasim: [00:04:00] So we're using John's like team fields kasim: [00:04:02] Yeah, just ton of fields kasim: [00:04:04] So I'm doing that kasim: [00:04:05] And then I'm also parenting with a timer kasim: [00:04:07] So I'm seeing like how long people spend going through all the fields kasim: [00:04:10] And so kasim: [00:04:11] The theory is that the more fields you have, there's going to be a bigger kasim: [00:04:15] discrepancy between someone that fills out something just by going kasim: [00:04:18] through real quick and, spaming it kasim: [00:04:20] And someone that really puts time and effort through filling it out kasim: [00:04:23] That's genius kasim: [00:04:24] So you've got a lapse time added to what the conversion tracking kasim: [00:04:28] Yeah kasim: [00:04:28] To the conversion action for the lead forms kasim: [00:04:30] For example, if it's a page or a popup, you just have the click ID or the URL, kasim: [00:04:35] and then just attach the timer to that kasim: [00:04:37] You can create that in talking to Yvonne about that kasim: [00:04:39] Actually you can create it in GTM kasim: [00:04:41] Yeah kasim: [00:04:41] How much time are you giving them per form field? kasim: [00:04:43] Have we figured that out? kasim: [00:04:45] So I'm testing 10 seconds 12 seconds, 15 seconds, 20 seconds and 30 seconds kasim: [00:04:50] So if they fill it out too quickly, are they going to a separate thank you page kasim: [00:04:54] That's just not tracked as a conversion kasim: [00:04:55] So not yet kasim: [00:04:57] Initially trying to figure out where the Delta is kasim: [00:04:59] So I don't know, for example, it takes someone and it's gonna kasim: [00:05:02] vary based on every client kasim: [00:05:03] Right kasim: [00:05:03] I don't know if it's gonna take 'em like 10 seconds to fill out a form kasim: [00:05:06] and then it takes a bot maybe like five seconds or further and further kasim: [00:05:10] And so the theory is the more questions you have, the easier it is to see kasim: [00:05:13] the difference between like, spam traffic versus not spam traffic kasim: [00:05:16] That is absolutely brilliant kasim: [00:05:17] I don't think we're contending with bot traffic kasim: [00:05:19] I think we're contending with click farm traffic kasim: [00:05:21] That's for click farms kasim: [00:05:22] Yeah kasim: [00:05:22] Right kasim: [00:05:23] But click farms to your point, those people are gonna be way kasim: [00:05:25] faster at the farm fields because they don't care about the inputs kasim: [00:05:28] So the note here is ADAPs time to the conversion action kasim: [00:05:31] And then before you decide what the line demarcation kasim: [00:05:33] Monitor it so that you can get a census to the, the relative average kasim: [00:05:37] And I'm assuming that it's actually not a bell curve in this instance, kasim: [00:05:39] meaning it's not distributed evenly kasim: [00:05:41] It's probably gonna be heavily weighted to early stage traffic kasim: [00:05:44] Find out where that spike is kasim: [00:05:45] And then you'd put your elapsed time right on the right on what would we call that? kasim: [00:05:49] What's the decline called? kasim: [00:05:50] Any statisticians I just call it the Delta kasim: [00:05:53] But right kasim: [00:05:53] When it starts to slope down, that's where I would put my line demarcation kasim: [00:05:56] And you'd split the thank you pages and only give conversion credit to the latter kasim: [00:05:59] Thank you page kasim: [00:06:00] You could do that or just take off the conversion action or just put kasim: [00:06:04] it as well, I guess you wouldn't wanna put a secondary, there could be kasim: [00:06:06] reasons not to do that, but you could in theory, just take the conversion kasim: [00:06:09] action off and have the timer kasim: [00:06:10] Just be the filter as well kasim: [00:06:11] But then people still form fill and you don't want that bad form fill kasim: [00:06:14] So you probably want to keep kasim: [00:06:16] The forms that are relevant, that you deemed relevant based off your conversion kasim: [00:06:19] action, and then send the other ones to a non-existent and you paid like how we kasim: [00:06:23] got, I wanna fight you though on that in at least early stage, because we kasim: [00:06:28] don't know that our assumption is right kasim: [00:06:30] So I'd want to keep the form so that I could follow up and see like, okay kasim: [00:06:33] That is a better, that is a click form, as opposed kasim: [00:06:35] And then maybe, I guess what you're saying with some is end result is kasim: [00:06:38] we would send them to the gotcha kasim: [00:06:39] Sand trap kasim: [00:06:40] Yeah kasim: [00:06:40] I see what you're saying kasim: [00:06:41] I had a question and I lost kasim: [00:06:43] It was gonna be brilliant too kasim: [00:06:44] It was gonna blow you all away kasim: [00:06:45] So I really like that, Katie, I we've got two leg gen accounts that I know of kasim: [00:06:49] that I'm personally involved with that are working inside of PMAX and both kasim: [00:06:52] of them have just wicked long forms kasim: [00:06:54] There's Southwest building solutions whose name we can use kasim: [00:06:56] And then there's a niche real estate lead generation kasim: [00:06:59] They're crushing life, but they have Southwest building kasim: [00:07:01] solutions has 17 form fields kasim: [00:07:03] It's an aggressive form kasim: [00:07:04] It's very specific to kasim: [00:07:06] So I'm just gonna say use massive forms, caution, large cost relief forms kasim: [00:07:10] Yes kasim: [00:07:10] I would say it's easier though, for phone calls when it comes kasim: [00:07:13] to PAX, just in general kasim: [00:07:14] It's a lot easier to catalyze but we also track record and score all phone calls kasim: [00:07:18] Most people don't do that kasim: [00:07:19] Exactly kasim: [00:07:20] Yeah kasim: [00:07:20] But it'll just stop bot phone fills kasim: [00:07:23] Right kasim: [00:07:23] It'll not stop bot traffic, like right kasim: [00:07:26] Bot traffic will come and Google will charges for that flick, but when kasim: [00:07:30] you're optimized conversions, it would eventually push that away though kasim: [00:07:33] It'll we those out, but yeah kasim: [00:07:35] It's crazy how much a Google's display based traffic is kasim: [00:07:38] either bought or click form kasim: [00:07:39] Like it's UN it's an open air conspiracy at this point, as far as kasim: [00:07:41] I'm concerned, like, it feels like it's most of the traffic really kasim: [00:07:45] we're getting charged for this crap kasim: [00:07:46] And then you come to find out that it's like a bunch of people with 50 kasim: [00:07:48] iPhones lined up in front of them, all filling up forms professionally kasim: [00:07:51] rolling their IP address kasim: [00:07:53] Okay kasim: [00:07:53] We've got PAX fill points kasim: [00:07:54] Lead gen is super dangerous kasim: [00:07:56] Your website has to be SEO kasim: [00:07:57] Go put your URL instead of Google's keyword research tool to see what Google kasim: [00:08:01] thinks you're relevant for use AAPS time kasim: [00:08:03] Attach that to conversion action kasim: [00:08:04] Cadence kasim: [00:08:05] I almost wanna edit it outta this video kasim: [00:08:06] We won't though kasim: [00:08:07] We'll leave it cuz we're good people., why else did performance max campaigns fail? kasim: [00:08:10] What else have we seen? kasim: [00:08:11] Maybe that's surprising too kasim: [00:08:13] I know not enough asset groups, but I don't wanna do the kasim: [00:08:15] easy rote and routine ones kasim: [00:08:16] People should maybe already know that kasim: [00:08:18] Well, not necessarily not enough asset groups kasim: [00:08:20] I've seen a fill where kasim: [00:08:22] The asset group doesn't support your budget kasim: [00:08:23] That's what I'll say kasim: [00:08:24] I audit accounts that come through for new prospects kasim: [00:08:26] And it's kind of crazy when someone's like, oh, we're spending, $60 a day and kasim: [00:08:29] I have 99 asset groups and this is an impossible question to answer, but do kasim: [00:08:33] we have a cost per asset group roughly? kasim: [00:08:36] We said there are no SOS in there kasim: [00:08:38] We did it kasim: [00:08:38] We would have to industry is different kasim: [00:08:40] It's impossible because yeah, the industry, the geography, I kasim: [00:08:43] think FA U responded saying it depends on your cost of traffic kasim: [00:08:45] Like if your CPC is fraction of a penny, then you can get away with anything kasim: [00:08:49] Oh, I was gonna say average order value kasim: [00:08:51] Like I keep imagining like a X, Y axis where we could say budget kasim: [00:08:55] versus average order value and kind of decide like how many asset kasim: [00:08:59] Because average order value kind of indicates how frequently you're gonna kasim: [00:09:02] get conversions, I think, is that right? kasim: [00:09:04] I don't think so kasim: [00:09:05] I think AOV is independent of cost, cuz you can have super kasim: [00:09:09] high AOVs and super low cost kasim: [00:09:11] Those are the industries that everybody wants kasim: [00:09:12] And I'm thinking about, remember our tape client, I guess they had a high LTB kasim: [00:09:16] But I know what you're saying, Regina, there's gotta be something that is kasim: [00:09:19] kind of the predictive indicator kasim: [00:09:21] I would have to sit down and just make this and then iterate it for weeks kasim: [00:09:24] Yeah kasim: [00:09:25] Well, but I mean, to that point, I think that there could be like a kasim: [00:09:27] Google sheet that we build out saying like, what's the cost of traffic kasim: [00:09:30] How competitive is the industry? kasim: [00:09:31] What's your ceiling too kasim: [00:09:33] And then how much do you plan on scaling and those things added together kasim: [00:09:35] And we could guess roughly guess at what your budget needs kasim: [00:09:38] to be per asset group mm-hmm kasim: [00:09:40] It's weird because we tell people, build as many asset groups as you possibly kasim: [00:09:42] can, which is good advice until it's like, well, now you have to spend more kasim: [00:09:45] money to test all these asset groups kasim: [00:09:47] And so the advice and the silo build as many asset groups as you possibly kasim: [00:09:50] can is really good advice until now we're talking about budget too, and kasim: [00:09:54] now we're like, well, you have to be able to fund all those asset groups kasim: [00:09:56] And now the logical question is, well, how much money do I kasim: [00:09:58] need to fund the asset groups? kasim: [00:09:59] And the answer is I Don kasim: [00:10:00] I think the way you wanna think about it is if each asset group can get about kasim: [00:10:04] a conversion or two a week then it's gonna have the patterns and the frequency kasim: [00:10:08] and the ability to go after remarketing for the person that it's following kasim: [00:10:13] and all of that, you know what I mean? kasim: [00:10:14] Like you want it to get frequent conversions kasim: [00:10:16] Two conversions a week, for example, would be good cause the data gets old kasim: [00:10:20] So, if each asset group only has enough money to get a kasim: [00:10:23] conversion every three weeks kasim: [00:10:25] It's not frequent enough for it to be able to follow someone around, have the kasim: [00:10:29] remarketing budget available when that person is back and they're searching and kasim: [00:10:33] then it's not gonna have the patterns because the weather's gonna change kasim: [00:10:36] or the competitor is gonna change kasim: [00:10:38] And then, three weeks is not frequent enough kasim: [00:10:40] So I think that's why I think about average order value, because you can kind kasim: [00:10:43] of take your budget and divide it by kasim: [00:10:45] No kasim: [00:10:45] Okay kasim: [00:10:46] You're right kasim: [00:10:46] It's cost per conversion kasim: [00:10:47] Not average or valid kasim: [00:10:48] but I like what you're saying, the cost per conversion kasim: [00:10:50] You'd have to run first and test it, but once you've identified your cost kasim: [00:10:53] per conversion and I like your line demarcation at two per week, I think kasim: [00:10:55] that that's actually pretty valid kasim: [00:10:56] It's a valid minimum kasim: [00:10:57] Hopefully it's more, but it's a valid minimum because at two per week, you kasim: [00:11:00] should start to see optimization adequate optimization for an early stage campaign kasim: [00:11:04] So let's say using round numbers that your cost per conversion is $10 kasim: [00:11:07] Let's say, if you need two per week, that's 20 per asset group kasim: [00:11:10] And if you have 50 asset groups and that's easy to cascade across kasim: [00:11:13] Exactly kasim: [00:11:14] Yeah kasim: [00:11:14] That's as good a napkin test, as I can think of, we need kind of a guideline kasim: [00:11:18] Like there will be exceptions like that tape client, but I think we kasim: [00:11:22] should build that and see how it goes kasim: [00:11:24] So I'm gonna ask the other strategists kasim: [00:11:26] I think the logic here's really sound kasim: [00:11:29] How do y'all feel about the number two, two conversions kasim: [00:11:32] per week in an asset group? kasim: [00:11:33] Should that be more, less? kasim: [00:11:35] What's the number of asset groups you have cause overall your campaign is gonna kasim: [00:11:38] be performing based off overall campaign performance, the calculator would spit kasim: [00:11:42] out how much asset groups you can have kasim: [00:11:45] So you put in your budget, you put in your cost per lead, and then all it does kasim: [00:11:49] is it divides the budget by the cost per lead and tells you how many asset groups kasim: [00:11:53] you can have because you need each asset group to get two conversions a week kasim: [00:11:56] Well, it's very chicken and egg though, because now what we're telling people is kasim: [00:11:59] build all the asset groups you can build kasim: [00:12:00] And our current SOP, which we're about to train people on is take kasim: [00:12:03] all your product categories kasim: [00:12:04] Let's say you have five, take all your audiences kasim: [00:12:06] Let's say you have five and then multiply them kasim: [00:12:08] And so I have five product categories and five audiences I'll have 25 asset groups kasim: [00:12:11] So now if I have 25 asset groups to the point that Regina's making we'd wanna see kasim: [00:12:15] How many conversions per asset group we would want in order to kasim: [00:12:18] properly optimize the campaign kasim: [00:12:19] But I guess what ends up happening though, is you end up with a Pretto kasim: [00:12:22] distribution inside of your asset groups, where 20% of your asset groups kasim: [00:12:25] are getting 80% of your conversions kasim: [00:12:26] So you would wanna arm your asset groups with enough funds to achieve at kasim: [00:12:30] least two conversions per asset group, kasim: [00:12:32] but also with the understanding that most of the asset groups aren't kasim: [00:12:34] going to, but you'd wanna take money off of the table as to why they kasim: [00:12:37] didn't you'd wanna have enough money there for them to achieve that kasim: [00:12:40] And then once you've reached that critical mass from a spend threshold kasim: [00:12:43] perspective, when an asset group fails, you at least know it failed kasim: [00:12:46] Not because it wasn't well funded kasim: [00:12:48] Yeah kasim: [00:12:49] I think that's really sound logic there kasim: [00:12:51] Regina, I wanna back you on that kasim: [00:12:52] My only question again is whether or it's two conversions per week, kasim: [00:12:55] one five, like, how do we feel? kasim: [00:12:57] Two sounds good to me, by the way kasim: [00:12:58] I'm not fighting you kasim: [00:12:59] I just wanna see what the other strategies think kasim: [00:13:00] I don't know about that, cuz I'm also thinking about the CPC kasim: [00:13:03] So let's I'm for an example, let's say my average cost per acquisition is $70 kasim: [00:13:09] So I need two converge kasim: [00:13:10] You're saying for an asset group, I need $140 a day, right kasim: [00:13:15] For a week, all right kasim: [00:13:16] So $20 for an asset group kasim: [00:13:19] So if I have five, it'll be 100 kasim: [00:13:21] I don't know kasim: [00:13:21] That's a tough project to build upon are too low kasim: [00:13:25] I just base it off the total number of convergence kasim: [00:13:27] I get over like, 30 days kasim: [00:13:29] What to that point though, no matter what it is, something that we're kasim: [00:13:32] backing into, it's not something that we're telling the client up front kasim: [00:13:34] Like, oh, you have to spend this much for this asset group kasim: [00:13:36] It's build it, run it kasim: [00:13:38] And then we will tell you generally speaking what we think you need kasim: [00:13:40] to spend in order to, you wanna be able to cover all of your kasim: [00:13:43] asset groups with enough spend kasim: [00:13:45] It's a weird paradigm to assume, because you actually wanna kasim: [00:13:47] spend enough to let things kasim: [00:13:48] Because 80% of your asset groups are gonna fail kasim: [00:13:50] 80% of your ads are gonna fail kasim: [00:13:51] 80% of your offer are gonna fail, but you don't know what's gonna fail kasim: [00:13:54] until you spend enough so we need to spend enough money to let things fail kasim: [00:13:57] I wanna say Google does not only optimize for conversion kasim: [00:14:01] So for an example, you can have two ads kasim: [00:14:03] One will have more conversions and better conversion rates, but two has better CTR kasim: [00:14:08] You can see that Google can sometimes spend more money on B kasim: [00:14:12] Even though the first one, it has a better conversion rate kasim: [00:14:15] So it doesn't only optimize for conversion kasim: [00:14:17] In my cases, I have two accounts for this example kasim: [00:14:20] We checked our asset groups kasim: [00:14:21] We checked the products we have kasim: [00:14:23] A hero product and let's say it was spending 50% of its budget kasim: [00:14:27] and the conversion rate was fine kasim: [00:14:29] It was around two not to three, four but the role as was two kasim: [00:14:33] and the client called street kasim: [00:14:34] So our hero product was spending half of our budget kasim: [00:14:38] And since the conversion rates are 3%, 4% of Google is kasim: [00:14:41] thinking, Hey, I'm, I'm killing kasim: [00:14:43] So I'm gonna put more money into it kasim: [00:14:45] I'm gonna spend half of it kasim: [00:14:46] I'm gonna spend 60% the budget, but at the end of the month, you'll see kasim: [00:14:49] that you're not paying your goal and actually you are losing money kasim: [00:14:52] So you have to be careful check your listing groups frequently and kasim: [00:14:57] see if somebody is taking too much kasim: [00:14:59] You don't wanna have false positive., check your listing groups frequently kasim: [00:15:03] And what are we looking for there with listing groups specifically? kasim: [00:15:06] We're looking for overspend like over commitments, categorically how much money kasim: [00:15:10] did this asset group spend in shopping? kasim: [00:15:13] Or you can also check your products and sent by clicks kasim: [00:15:16] So you'll see that let's say you spent a thousand dollars sometimes kasim: [00:15:20] you'll see that 500 of those kasim: [00:15:22] Went to a single product and it has good conversion rate or bads kasim: [00:15:27] You have to be careful with that kasim: [00:15:29] What I did was I pulled that out kasim: [00:15:31] I created its own performance max campaign and gave it a budget that is reasonable kasim: [00:15:35] So let's say my daily spend was $200 kasim: [00:15:38] It was the anything, two X kasim: [00:15:40] So I said, I'm gonna spend $50 in kasim: [00:15:43] So a I'll have value and the client will be happy that I'm still advertising for kasim: [00:15:48] the hero product, but I have to spend 115 elsewhere and get that four X to have to kasim: [00:15:55] meet the goal by the end of the month kasim: [00:15:57] So I love this FA as an SOP, this is really sharp kasim: [00:16:00] So if you have a product kasim: [00:16:01] That is monopolizing spend, we still wanna market that product kasim: [00:16:05] The general rule 80% rule is split that product out into its own PAX campaign kasim: [00:16:11] So you can dedicate, spend to that campaign kasim: [00:16:13] Now I'm gonna throw some grenades at you kasim: [00:16:14] I agree with what you're saying and I like it, but I also wanna kasim: [00:16:17] stress test this a little bit kasim: [00:16:18] You'd have to make sure that product's conversion value kasim: [00:16:22] is actually the sale of that product, right? kasim: [00:16:24] Because oftentimes somebody coming in on that product is buying other products kasim: [00:16:27] And if you take that product out of that PAX campaign, you kill kasim: [00:16:30] that cross pollination capability kasim: [00:16:32] So in order for this SOP to be true, that product's wh when people are kasim: [00:16:36] clicking on that product that have to be buying that product, because for kasim: [00:16:39] those watching in case you don't know if somebody clicks on that product and kasim: [00:16:41] buys another product, the product they click on still gets the Roaz credit kasim: [00:16:44] And if you took that product out of the, the PAX campaign, Then you'd kill kasim: [00:16:48] that kind of incestuous relationship kasim: [00:16:50] It's a risk you have to take because like I say, Google is not going to kasim: [00:16:53] optimize only for your conversion kasim: [00:16:55] So let's say USL dresses and shoes kasim: [00:16:59] Let's say dresses have 100,000 search volumes and shoes have 10,000 kasim: [00:17:04] Since this will kasim: [00:17:06] A good CTR and a better value kasim: [00:17:08] You may not give a chance to law search items kasim: [00:17:12] So you have to be careful kasim: [00:17:13] Yes kasim: [00:17:13] Cain's point is right kasim: [00:17:15] If I remember correctly number of was kasim: [00:17:17] 65%, 35% of the time kasim: [00:17:20] Somebody's going to click on an ad and buy something else kasim: [00:17:23] So that's your odds, but 35% of the time kasim: [00:17:26] Is that your anecdotal experience? kasim: [00:17:28] No kasim: [00:17:28] I think it was either HubSpot or hood suite, dude kasim: [00:17:31] That's great to know kasim: [00:17:31] Thank you for that kasim: [00:17:32] So which by the way, would make sense based on what I've seen, kasim: [00:17:34] just poking around campaigns kasim: [00:17:36] There is a cross pollination thing that happens that kasim: [00:17:38] advertisers don't realize happens kasim: [00:17:40] Everybody thinks it's oh, click and purchase people are dumb lemings and they kasim: [00:17:43] click on an ad and they buy the thing and it's like, no, they don't do that at all kasim: [00:17:47] Ever kasim: [00:17:47] Like they click, they view, they watch, they bounce, they leave, kasim: [00:17:49] they come back, they tell a friend, they use their wife's phone and kasim: [00:17:52] then maybe they buy the other thing kasim: [00:17:54] And to Google's point kasim: [00:17:55] Yeah kasim: [00:17:56] I heard that when you click on performance, max, a, the click will not be kasim: [00:18:00] shared with performance max B, but since as an agency, we don't believe anything kasim: [00:18:04] Google says but I still have thoughts about that kasim: [00:18:07] Cause the machine is smart and the AI is still learning kasim: [00:18:10] It happened in smart shopping where the smart shopping campaigns kasim: [00:18:13] would not cross pollinate kasim: [00:18:14] And we learned that the hard way we advise people to split smart shopping kasim: [00:18:17] campaigns and that advice hurt campaigns kasim: [00:18:19] So I'm inclined to believe them in this instance, just because I think that kasim: [00:18:23] whatever mechanism they're using for cross pollination, I think if it appears kasim: [00:18:26] to exist in both of those campaign types, Yeah, my thinking was just this, if kasim: [00:18:30] performance max, a got to click and said, all right it got into the website kasim: [00:18:35] It looks at different stuff, but I tried this in remarketing is not clicking kasim: [00:18:39] So I'm done with this user kasim: [00:18:41] A B will not gonna follow that kasim: [00:18:42] I don't know kasim: [00:18:43] I see what you're saying kasim: [00:18:44] Here's a question is performance max doesn't remarket kasim: [00:18:46] Well at all kasim: [00:18:47] Anyway, so if I have performance max campaign, a performance max campaign B kasim: [00:18:50] and a dynamic remarketing campaign, will that cover both of them agnostically? kasim: [00:18:55] I'm assuming yes, right? kasim: [00:18:56] Yeah kasim: [00:18:57] I have new metrics now, so it's more data and you're still kasim: [00:19:01] getting that G clips, but kasim: [00:19:03] It's 80% new kasim: [00:19:04] So once team the smart shopping was 80% remarking kasim: [00:19:07] So it will take a long time kasim: [00:19:09] Smart shopping says, Hey, I'm done with you, right? kasim: [00:19:12] I'm done chasing you kasim: [00:19:13] What about performance? kasim: [00:19:13] Max is 20% returning users kasim: [00:19:15] So it may be done with a client with the user more quickly and B can follow it up kasim: [00:19:21] So it's just a theory kasim: [00:19:23] I cannot back it up with data, if some of your item is spending too much kasim: [00:19:27] money and doesn't get the enough ROS, it's not hitting your goal and you kasim: [00:19:32] are a small business, you don't have the luxury to wait around like three kasim: [00:19:35] months, four months, five months, six months to let Google learn kasim: [00:19:39] You have to do something kasim: [00:19:41] People pick out what we say kasim: [00:19:43] A lot of our clients come to me and say, Hey, John said this, kasim: [00:19:46] why aren't you doing this? kasim: [00:19:47] And I wanna say, Hey, if you watch it fully, John also says, Hey, I'm spending kasim: [00:19:52] $5,000 on this PX campaign, right kasim: [00:19:54] You're spending a hundred kasim: [00:19:56] You said something else FA that I want to keen on as far as why kasim: [00:19:58] performance max campaigns fail is you have to leave em alone kasim: [00:20:01] Don't touch it kasim: [00:20:02] Yeah, build it kasim: [00:20:02] Let it run for six weeks kasim: [00:20:03] Unencumbered kasim: [00:20:04] And then even in, in an optimization, our optimization kasim: [00:20:07] schedule is now three week sprints kasim: [00:20:08] Don't touch it for three weeks stack all of your changes at once kasim: [00:20:11] Don't touch it again for two to three weeks stack all of your changes at kasim: [00:20:14] once and people that are thinking with their PAX campaign, they're just kasim: [00:20:17] resetting, learning over and over again kasim: [00:20:18] They're never getting outta learning phase kasim: [00:20:20] Yeah kasim: [00:20:20] That's the other point? kasim: [00:20:21] A lot of things changes in the agency like before it was more about specialists kasim: [00:20:25] Now it's more about client managers kasim: [00:20:26] They have to call the clients like, Hey, we're doing something just because you kasim: [00:20:30] don't see any changes in the changes kasim: [00:20:32] History doesn't mean that we're not working, but a lot of the people kasim: [00:20:35] think that you didn't change anything kasim: [00:20:37] You just build it kasim: [00:20:38] You just sit down kasim: [00:20:39] Well, I've actually said this on a sales call recently, and I think I'm gonna kasim: [00:20:41] make it part of my standard narrative kasim: [00:20:43] As it is to optimize something, right? kasim: [00:20:45] , just because you're not pressing a button doesn't mean we still have to check kasim: [00:20:47] We have to open the account kasim: [00:20:48] We have to check the campaign kasim: [00:20:49] We have to monitor the data kasim: [00:20:50] You still need to go in and look, you're just the end of the day where we used to kasim: [00:20:54] like, oh, I'd add a negative keyword or I'd make a better adjustment or whatever kasim: [00:20:56] Yeah kasim: [00:20:57] Now we're not doing that kasim: [00:20:57] We're casing all of that to come for the sprint kasim: [00:21:00] And when you case a change kasim: [00:21:02] You have to do an internal, what I would call an impact report kasim: [00:21:05] How does this change stack up against the 10 other changes that I plan on? kasim: [00:21:08] So it didn't get easier kasim: [00:21:10] It's not like, oh, we get to optimize our time and make all of our changes kasim: [00:21:13] Every three weeks kasim: [00:21:13] We're not waiting for three open the hood and be like, all right, kasim: [00:21:16] I'm gonna do these 15 things kasim: [00:21:17] Let's look at this, monitor it, decide what it is we're gonna do kasim: [00:21:20] It's so much harder because now there's a multi-variate problem kasim: [00:21:23] It's not like I get to make a change and see the impact, kasim: [00:21:25] it's come up with every improvement that needs to happen on this campaign kasim: [00:21:28] And then kasim: [00:21:29] Think through how each of those improvements is gonna tie in with kasim: [00:21:32] each other and themselves, this horribly complex web it's more kasim: [00:21:36] difficult than it's ever been kasim: [00:21:38] And if people are paying us to make changes, go, there's so many kasim: [00:21:41] software applications, PPC, samurai kasim: [00:21:43] We used to use PPC samurai kasim: [00:21:45] I've got friends, close friends who I love dearly by the way kasim: [00:21:47] So I'm not bashing them kasim: [00:21:48] They build in kasim: [00:21:49] Changes intentionally to show a high change history because they're tired of kasim: [00:21:53] having this conversation with clients kasim: [00:21:54] So we could do that exact same thing I could automate kasim: [00:21:56] arbitrary and worthless changes kasim: [00:21:58] Just so change history looks really robust kasim: [00:22:00] I could show you 500 changes a day kasim: [00:22:02] The changes don't matter at all kasim: [00:22:03] So if you're trying to hire somebody to make changes, go hire a nephew, put 'em kasim: [00:22:06] through a, a weekend, Google ADSD course kasim: [00:22:08] He'll make all the changes you want kasim: [00:22:09] Like God bless you kasim: [00:22:09] I'm rooting for you kasim: [00:22:11] That got way more aggressive than I meant for it to be kasim: [00:22:12] Who else has reasons PAX campaigns fail? kasim: [00:22:15] Yeah, I have one kasim: [00:22:16] No okay, so we are doing our job, right? kasim: [00:22:19] We have one job to structure Google page, right kasim: [00:22:23] So we are doing our part right kasim: [00:22:24] We are not tracking how the user is behaving when he goes on the website kasim: [00:22:30] So my thought process is there is one user converts kasim: [00:22:33] It's 50% like we can give credit 50% goes to Google ads and kasim: [00:22:38] then 50% goes to the website kasim: [00:22:39] But in most of our clients doesn't track or doesn't watch kasim: [00:22:43] how user behaves on their website kasim: [00:22:46] So so right now, what I'm doing with my Legion clients or some E eco clients kasim: [00:22:50] is that I'm trying or I'm convincing decline to install Microsoft clarity kasim: [00:22:55] So what Microsoft clarity does, it's a free software from Microsoft, which get kasim: [00:23:01] Scroll map, I think then recordings and then click tracking kasim: [00:23:05] So once a user lands on the site, it tracks the user behavior kasim: [00:23:10] It's important because kasim: [00:23:12] We get more data kasim: [00:23:13] Like where users leaving like on web stage? kasim: [00:23:16] Let's say we have seen 30% of our visitors or our users when to add to kasim: [00:23:21] card and then they leave the page kasim: [00:23:23] So we can go on, add to card and check what's the problem, kasim: [00:23:26] like where people are leaving kasim: [00:23:28] What's the drop of and we can try to optimize that step or else kasim: [00:23:32] Using a landing page so we can check where people are kasim: [00:23:35] So where are the heat maps? kasim: [00:23:36] Where they are spending their time, like on which part of this website kasim: [00:23:40] Then we can work on that, like our CTAs schedule free appointment kasim: [00:23:44] We will not get that data in Google ads or Google analytics, but in kasim: [00:23:48] Microsoft clarity or other hate map softwares, we will get that data kasim: [00:23:52] And then we can work on improving our CTA kasim: [00:23:55] We can change the CT and we can, again, check what's the heat map kasim: [00:23:59] for that section or for that CT kasim: [00:24:01] And then we can work on that kasim: [00:24:03] So, I think we should kasim: [00:24:04] And most of our clients do that, but we should track our user behavior, kasim: [00:24:08] user behavior on our website kasim: [00:24:10] It's funny because Google ads, it used to be so bottom of the funnel, all kasim: [00:24:14] you had to do was track conversions, and then you knew what was happening kasim: [00:24:17] because performance max is full funnel kasim: [00:24:19] You actually have to track the efficacy of the funnel, which is something that kasim: [00:24:22] Google ads agencies aren't used to doing kasim: [00:24:24] What the other thing I think is interesting is Zhar, you're one of kasim: [00:24:26] the smartest people I've ever known kasim: [00:24:27] I truly respect and value you, but the fact that you're pushing a Microsoft kasim: [00:24:31] product, man, it just makes me wonder, like, if you've crossed over to there's kasim: [00:24:33] something wrong or , it is free kasim: [00:24:35] That's why I'm promoting I think that's a really good point kasim: [00:24:37] I think that people tracking the efficacy of their funnel because performance kasim: [00:24:40] max, if it dies on the entry level steps, and you're just tracking inside kasim: [00:24:45] of Google ads, you're never gonna know kasim: [00:24:47] Yeah kasim: [00:24:47] And I've seen a lot of website kasim: [00:24:49] So that is one Rule we should follow kasim: [00:24:51] When we are like promoting a landing page or a website, we kasim: [00:24:54] should optimize our above the fold kasim: [00:24:57] So above the fold means the section that you land on first or section kasim: [00:25:01] that you see first on the website kasim: [00:25:03] So you should always optimize, or you should always match kasim: [00:25:06] The ad copy that you are using in the ad and what is on the landing page? kasim: [00:25:10] So let's say on ad copy, we are saying 15% off on chainsaw and on kasim: [00:25:16] website, we are on above the fold kasim: [00:25:18] We are not promoting it there is nothing mentioning 15% kasim: [00:25:21] On chainsaw, then that's a mismatch, right? kasim: [00:25:24] So I think people don't look at it kasim: [00:25:27] It's important to match the value proposition in ads and on the landing kasim: [00:25:32] Can we push UTM parameters per asset group? kasim: [00:25:35] No kasim: [00:25:35] Cause that would be cool kasim: [00:25:36] Cuz then you could just do dynamic text insertion, grab the UTM and kasim: [00:25:39] then modify the promo by asset group kasim: [00:25:42] Why man, that doesn't make any damn sense to me kasim: [00:25:44] Why can't we push UTM by asset? kasim: [00:25:45] That feels like an easy that's kasim: [00:25:46] I mean they already have mechanism problems kasim: [00:25:48] You can't see asset group performance kasim: [00:25:50] You can see the channel source for the convergence kasim: [00:25:53] You don't even know, where is your money going before that kasim: [00:25:56] you have so many things to have kasim: [00:25:57] I wonder if we couldn't hack it, like if we used a really special string of kasim: [00:26:02] characters in every headline description and I guess text for images doesn't apply kasim: [00:26:08] So just, but hear me through use a special string of characters for kasim: [00:26:10] every headliner description of Emory kasim: [00:26:12] That gets pushed through on the UTM parameters, cuz you can include kasim: [00:26:15] ads and UTM, as an include file kasim: [00:26:17] And then on page, you now capture that special line and then proxy it kasim: [00:26:23] saying, oh it's whatever line it is kasim: [00:26:25] So this is the 15% off kasim: [00:26:27] Asset group, it's a wacky ass roundabout, but I think we could kasim: [00:26:30] make it look if we wanted to kasim: [00:26:31] And actually what we could do there is we could start to see kasim: [00:26:34] which asset group we could see kasim: [00:26:35] Asset group performance kasim: [00:26:36] You could build your own internal analytics tool around kasim: [00:26:38] asset group performance kasim: [00:26:39] It would work way better with search and DSA kasim: [00:26:41] It probably wouldn't work for display kasim: [00:26:43] How are display assets working DSA? kasim: [00:26:45] And this is you cannot define helpline kasim: [00:26:47] So you would only have the search, but you can define descriptions kasim: [00:26:50] Yeah kasim: [00:26:51] But I guess the description doesn't come through the UTM is what you're saying kasim: [00:26:53] So you're right kasim: [00:26:54] I'm wrong kasim: [00:26:54] I don't know kasim: [00:26:55] I don't know either if somebody's watching this who's way better kasim: [00:26:57] at analytics than we are kasim: [00:26:58] Let us know if this is something that anyway yeah, I think this was great kasim: [00:27:01] Last words to the strategist kasim: [00:27:02] How do y'all feel PAX? kasim: [00:27:03] There's a bunch of now here's the thing is there's a bunch of, we're kasim: [00:27:06] trying to show you our PAX fill points kasim: [00:27:07] That doesn't mean don't use it kasim: [00:27:08] Like I still think it's the most powerful marketing mechanism kasim: [00:27:10] I've ever seen in my entire life kasim: [00:27:11] It's like when you give a toddler a super soaker, you stuff's gonna get wet kasim: [00:27:16] You know what I mean? kasim: [00:27:16] You have to know how to use it kasim: [00:27:17] So last words to the strategists going around, any, any closing kasim: [00:27:20] words for our listeners or viewers kasim: [00:27:22] I was gonna say whatever you do, don't talk about kasim: [00:27:25] One product or service in one headline and a different product or kasim: [00:27:28] service in a description because the algorithm is not great at matching kasim: [00:27:32] up headlines and descriptions to the right product and service kasim: [00:27:35] That's a rookie mistake that we made in the early stages of PEX kasim: [00:27:39] Yeah kasim: [00:27:40] It's an easy one to make too kasim: [00:27:41] I think everybody who launches a new PAX campaign, they're just, it's kasim: [00:27:44] just hard to get acclimated to how flexible all of those things are kasim: [00:27:47] Yeah kasim: [00:27:48] You wanna think about kasim: [00:27:49] What's being searched for, and then only talk about those kasim: [00:27:52] things in that asset group kasim: [00:27:53] So unfortunately you do have to have asset groups that are divided by your products kasim: [00:27:57] or product categories or services kasim: [00:27:59] Well said, phone, car, closing words yeah kasim: [00:28:01] Work on ad copy because performance max is full funneled, right? kasim: [00:28:05] Doesn't mean that you have to work on ad copy kasim: [00:28:08] If you just use bottom of the funnel ad copy like product specific kasim: [00:28:12] If you write just product specific ad copy, it'll not give unaware audience kasim: [00:28:17] They don't know what you sell or what product you have kasim: [00:28:20] You can create classic groups or else try to kasim: [00:28:23] Combine headlines description and long headlines cater to all the audience, like kasim: [00:28:28] a never audience, product aware audience, and then bottom of the funnel audience kasim: [00:28:32] That's a great note kasim: [00:28:33] What's the old cliche features tell benefit sell kasim: [00:28:36] Well said FA last word kasim: [00:28:38] Okay kasim: [00:28:38] It's it's mid June kasim: [00:28:40] You have 15 days whether you like it or not, PAX would be kasim: [00:28:43] the only option you'll have kasim: [00:28:44] So, yeah, especially Freecom well, local too, right? kasim: [00:28:47] PAX is replacing local kasim: [00:28:48] Is it in July or is it later? kasim: [00:28:50] August kasim: [00:28:51] Okay kasim: [00:28:51] So smart kasim: [00:28:52] Shopping's going away kasim: [00:28:53] All local campaigns are going away and performance max, do kasim: [00:28:55] you think they'll take DSA? kasim: [00:28:57] Hope not, I don't know kasim: [00:28:58] I don't know the industry kasim: [00:28:59] Like I think they're gonna take away everything kasim: [00:29:02] So we should definitely be ready kasim: [00:29:04] The keyless future kasim: [00:29:05] Cool kasim: [00:29:06] Y'all did a great job kasim: [00:29:07] If you're watching this, we shoot a video every day, light comment,