Crafting Profitable Online Courses and Coaching Programs with John Meese

[00:00:00] John: I think that if I had community, like I had somebody who really liked the marketing and business development in a way that I just don't anymore. . I think this could be a million dollar business with just a few more people and it could be exceedingly profitable. you know, that's where I'm aspiring to be at this stage in my career is, you know, let's get to that mid seven figure range for a while.

[00:00:51] Dustin: Welcome back to the seven Free Elite podcast. I'm, , super delighted today. I get to hang out with a new friend, John Bates. And so, , we're gonna do a coaching session today. So John's gonna bear it all for us. As much as he is comfortable, we're gonna hear about his business and his goals, and I'm gonna hopefully give him some great value and, , a great strategic marketing plan to meet those goals.

[00:01:12] Dustin: So, John came my way probably over a year ago, , from a, a good friend Eric Collette. Eric is a client of ours, a seven figure leap. , He's been through our podcast guesting program and as you get to hear, , John's story, I think you'll understand why Eric's like, you guys should really know each other.

[00:01:26] Dustin: So, , John, I know you have multiple businesses and we talked a little bit before we hit record. How do we wanna kind of focus on this? , So feel free to mention kind of all the things, but I'd love to know in a couple minute synopsis, sort of like a snapshot of your, business, , story today. And then we'll start getting into the details from there.

[00:01:43] John: Okay, so since you said story, I'll tell you a quick story 'cause I think it, gives a lot of context that's important and useful. So I was always the guy with the soft skills and I always worked with people in my whole professional life who had the hard skills. And so I was always you know, going to conferences, speaking at conferences, doing business development, managing the relationships.

[00:02:08] John: And I was always a founder or a co-founder or an early stage employee at.com companies. Started in 1994 I raised several hundred million dollars with my various teams in Silicon Valley and beyond. But the people that I was paying, you know, would say, oh, John, he does the fluffy stuff. Right? So I went around with this chip on my shoulder trying to prove I was valuable, and I secretly didn't think I was valuable, and it was just awkward.

[00:02:37] John: And then in 2009, I went to the TED conference for the first time and I just saw person after person give the most unbelievable talks I had ever seen. And I remember having two big, simultaneous realizations, one kind of good one, kind of not so good. So the first one was, wow, that's powerful. You know, call it fluffy if you will.

[00:03:01] John: But that kind of public speaking is super powerful. So for the first time in my adult life, I actually got a sense that I brought some value. I was like, okay, well, so what I do does have some value, right? But then I also realized that even though I thought I was really good as a public speaker. And even though I had always been the best speaker or one of the best speakers, I was speaking at tech conferences, you so like I'm the best of the worst.

[00:03:28] John: Woo. You know? So I came back from Ted and I was really humbled and I decided I wanted to figure out what made this whole thing cook. I was like, okay, this, like I am nowhere near as good as I could be at this and I'm taking it on. So at one of the first ever TEDx events, my friends that I'd met at Ted, I was volunteering for them and we had this guy who had all the hard skills in the world.

[00:03:52] John: I was waiting for him all day. And when he got up on stage in the afternoon and started to speak, everybody in the audience checked out. so nervous and awkward, we all thought we were gonna throw up for him. so at first I was genuinely sad. Like I was, I mean, that's the guy I was waiting for, right?

[00:04:11] John: and then I actually started to think about it and I got kind of mad 'cause I thought about what that must have cost me at all my companies to have people like that, which we did, right? Super brilliant, but couldn't communicate very well internally or externally. And then the evil part of me popped out and I was sitting there quietly to myself going, aha ha ha.

[00:04:34] John: Hard skills, guys blowing it. Calls meaner, meaner, you know? And as I was doing that, my buddy Michael Weiss came over and leaned down and said, dude, we gotta do something to help people like this. And I was just like. You know, so I went home that night, started working on what, you know, Mike and I created it together and then I ran with it and like it just completely changed my life.

[00:04:59] John: Like that completely changed my life. so I started doing that coaching for some of the TEDx Southern California organizers, just pro bono. And then I immediately started getting asked to come into the companies of all the people that were speaking, like they got the coaching from me for TEDx. And they're more like, will you come do that for my company?

[00:05:20] John: So I very quickly got pulled into places like Johnson and Johnson, and then I met the folks from NASA and they had me train the astronauts and you know, it was amazing what happened. Like I owe Ted and TEDx a lot and I owe Mike Weiss

[00:05:33] John: here's, the. reason that that happened. I think, and I wouldn't have thought of it any other way, but when I went home that night after Mike said that, I was like, okay, I gotta base everything I do as much as I can in the science of communication. I had a strong interest in evolutionary biology.

[00:05:51] John: I had a strong interest in, , the neurobiology of communication that I studied at UCLA and I got to do a bunch of upper division classes as an underclassmen. And so like, I had all this stuff, but I never put it together. I put it together and it was magic. And I based everything as much as I could in science and made it principles based learning.

[00:06:13] John: So it's easy to remember. And what started happening is these hard skills people would understand not only what they needed to do, which they were resisting, but also why they needed to do it. So they stopped resisting because they understood it and was. Principals based in, in their language, they started doing things really well.

[00:06:31] John: They got way more creative, they got way more confident, they got way more relaxed. It actually turned into fun for them. And I think we're gonna talk about it later. The upside and the downside is I've had a 15 year like all pure word of mouth business and just have never really figured out the other side of marketing.

[00:06:50] John: So I want to do that now, but I'm honored that I was able to find something that would do that for me. Right. That was lucky on some level

[00:06:59] Dustin: sure.

[00:07:00] Dustin: So, what, we're gonna get into the weeds here a little bit on the business. So, , if people want to kind of follow along, like what would be the name or the URL for this main business? Your personal business here?

[00:07:11] John: So like, it's another thing that I'm kind of working through, but I've got executive speaking success, which kind of says what it is.

[00:07:18] John: And then I also have john bates.com because I wanted to sort of separate out myself as a keynote speaker and a personality, and have executive speaking success, be really focused on what that name is, that aspect of my business.

[00:07:34] John: But I wanted to be able to have people find me, because people always call me John Bates, like it's one thing, you know? Oh, John Bates. like, need to make that, I need to be findable, you know?

[00:07:46] Dustin: That's a good domain to get. So you have john bates.com. So that's more of the personal brand. If I wanna hire John to come be the keynote guy, that's that brand Executive speaking success.com is your training coaching company. So obviously they connect and they feed each other, but sounds like executive speaking success is sort of the main focus today.

[00:08:05] Dustin: Getting more clients, more repeatable clients for that business.

[00:08:08] Dustin: So yeah, give us a snapshot, be as transparent as you'd like as far as revenue, but, , like it's really useful to look back the last 12 months to say, here's a revenue number of clients, any team that you have, so we can kind of a baseline of where you're coming from.

[00:08:22] John: So, and I'm happy to do that. And I will tell you, the short version at the very end of 2022, I had a shoulder surgery 'cause I hurt rotator cuff and neither shoulder surgery. It got infected. I didn't argue with the doctor to look more closely when he said, oh, you'll be fine. And like two months after I got the surgery, I couldn't lift my arm higher than this, and they put me on multiple hardcore antibiotics, did three debridement surgeries before we finally stopped it.

[00:08:54] John: I thought I might die. And what I didn't know. I want everybody to know is serious infections, especially when they're untreated for so long, are highly correlated with clinical depression, which I did not understand. And the antibiotics that I was on. These new really powerful goods save my life.

[00:09:15] John: Antibiotics have a less common but not rare side effect of clinical anxiety. So in 2023, I spent the whole year unable to work, unable to barely able to be with my wife and my son, and not to talk about it cavalier, but like if I didn't have my son and if I wasn't clear how awful, it would've been for me to just off myself for him, I think I might have not made it through 2023.

[00:09:46] John: So 2023, I had pretty good income, you know, maybe 250, 300,000 something, but I didn't really perform very well, and I, I showed up for some of that stuff, missed some of that stuff, had to refund the money. Then 2024 was like a black hole. Like that was like, I didn't pay any taxes and I got a big refund, which is unusual.

[00:10:09] John: but 20, 24, I put tons of money into flying to events and speaking on stages and just making myself visible again because for 2023 I had been completely gone, you know? And by the way, when I got, so I finally met a woman who had worked at the VA hospital as a therapist for her whole life. when she heard what was going on, she's like, John, okay, don't off yourself.

[00:10:34] John: I know you're thinking about it. You're gonna be okay. Here's what's going on. Right. Told me about the, infection and the depression told me about the antibiotics and the anxiety. We decided I would get off the antibiotics a little bit earlier than they wanted me to. I was on for a almost a year,

[00:10:51] John: and when I got off I was better.

[00:10:53] John: In two weeks I was totally back, so in August of 25, the last quarter of 2024 was pretty good. And then some of that flowed into the fir, you know, didn't show up in my accounts until first quarter. I had a bunch of sales in the first quarter and it was looking ripper. And then the second quarter it was just like crickets.

[00:11:17] John: And I've been very. Purposefully focusing on a system now for a while, which is really hard for me. Like we've got go high level implemented. It's, worked with a great team. It's still not perfect, and I don't use it perfectly, but as I'm using it better and better, and as I'm being more conscious about my outreach in different avenues, like LinkedIn, I'm starting to book a lot more calls and just starting to happen right now.

[00:11:46] John: So now it's, I want more of that stuff and it's starting to happen.

[00:11:51] Dustin: I really appreciate the transparency and the context 'cause that's super helpful. It's like you've had a word of mouth business for 15 years as you described it. It was going really well and then you had this setback and A lot of times, you know, I hear these same stories.

[00:12:04] Dustin: The top referral partner retired or got hit by or got divorced or whatever. Right. Or , the economy or a tariff or, it is like when don't have a predictable lead system, you're really at the mercy of a lot of factors that you can't control. , And. You know, you're coming outta the other side of that and, , sounds like you became very aware of that acutely because of this two year period.

[00:12:26] Dustin: Q one's great. Hey, referrals are coming. It's like Q two's completely dry. You didn't change anything but just, you know, circumstances or chance changed. So now you're like, Hey, I need to get more serious about marketing. Consistent lead generation. You've got high level, which is a great platform and CRM and, and marketing engine.

[00:12:43] Dustin: I use the same one. also took like nine months to get onboarded with it. It is not a simple system, but it it is. Good.

[00:12:50] Dustin: and obviously you, you know, applied for this coaching session 'cause you see some, , opportunities for podcast guesting, partnerships, other ways to feed the funnel that you're building, with the high level team that you have.

[00:13:01] Dustin: So is that

[00:13:02] Dustin: summary?

[00:13:03] John: Yeah, and I don't want to skip over. Like, I really think podcast guesting is a huge thing for me. And I also think, , partnerships is something that I've been thinking about a lot, but there's gotta be partners where if their people could be vastly better at communicating and public speaking, they would be thrilled that they brought me in.

[00:13:26] John: And I just haven't done enough thinking and asking to find that.

[00:13:32] Dustin: That's why we're here. . So me a little bit on your current offer or offers, like, , what can people buy from you? How much does it cost? How do you deliver it?

[00:13:41] John: I mean, I think my offers is another place where I really need to think harder about what I actually wanna accomplish with my business and what really serves my clients. But

[00:13:54] John: just to add insult to injury on the, like, word of mouth. Like, I don't have a whole bunch of ongoing long-term programs that I offer.

[00:14:04] John: I do have them, but I haven't made it a priority to try to engage over time longer with my clients. So the main thing that's been, Happening for me since COVID. I did a lot more in person stuff before COVID, but I failed over pretty successfully into just one-on-one Zoom coaching, which thank heavens, , during the, , pandemic and so what I have now is like a three month one-on-one coaching offering I've got an online course, it's three and a half hours long, it's fabulously well made 'cause I had great help creating that and I asked people to do that so that we have a common vocabulary and a common understanding.

[00:14:46] John: And then we do three months of one-on-one coaching, a minimum of every other week. And I help people with their origin story, with their TED worthy talk. If they are a keynote speaker. If they're an executive, like Will, we'll weave those things into what they're actually up to. Then I have a six month program where it's the same thing, but it's six months, and about halfway through whenever the client wants, they fly in and we spend an afternoon and a morning together in that order.

[00:15:20] John: So we spend a full day together with a, you know, break of the evening in the middle. And that's a really, really popular one. And, and it's fabulous what we get done when they show up here and they're not in their office and all that of stuff. And then I've got a year long program that is a one-on-one program where same thing, but I will fly out to them at no additional cost twice in the year and spend a day that they can split up between, you know, they can use the, entire day themselves.

[00:15:53] John: They could do the morning with their team in the afternoon, just one-on-one with me. , So, I mean, you know, so like I have list prices, but I'll give you the, costs what the investment is right now. And I mostly because it's word of mouth, I give people my best pricing because they came to me through somebody that I know.

[00:16:12] John: So, you know, my list pricing is a little bit higher, but the one-on-one coaching for three months is $9,500. The one-on-one coaching for six months, and they come in for a day in the middle is 17,500. And the year long coaching where I go out for two full days is 40 k.

[00:16:33] John: you know, if somebody comes to me and they're a nonprofit, I'll talk to them and they can give me a counter offer and explain their situation and we'll usually work that out. But that is what I'm actually charging and actually making,

[00:16:48] Dustin: So you got three month all virtual, 9,506 month virtual plus a full day VIP experience where coming to you and you've the one year where you're coming in to them twice, , could be with them, with their team. It's obviously a much more, , deeper experience for 40 K.

[00:17:06] Dustin: And so whether it's year to date or going back to 2022, if you had to assign, sort of like 10% do this, 20% do this and 70% do this, what do people typically purchase out of those three?

[00:17:19] John: It skews very much to the three month and the six month.

[00:17:23] John: what happens is they'll do that with me, and then they'll come back in a few months and they'll hire me to come in and do a half day or a day or a two or three days with their team and

[00:17:37] Dustin: want

[00:17:38] John: Once they do the one-on-one with me, they usually want me to come in and just do it for the whole team.

[00:17:43] Dustin: that's great. And,, is that it, I mean the offer stack right now is it's all one-on-one and you can choose one of three durations that include more and more sort of intimacy and, how tight you're able to work with them.

[00:17:54] John: I mean, that is the majority of what I'm doing now. it's not the majority of what I think I should be doing now.

[00:18:02] Dustin: That's gonna be my question, but like right now that's what you're doing. , It's manageable. You can kind of take it as it comes. you don't have like the dynamics of a group or some of the stuff that Okay.

[00:18:12] John: you know what my other offering is, , I have like, that online course is basically what I call the speak like a Leader bootcamp, which is kind of a silly name. But what that is, is that set of principles and that set of understandings that all my coaching springs out of. So I've got a program anywhere from a half day to three days where I will go into a company and the experience is different depending on how many people, but you know, it's a little more intimate and a little more interactive.

[00:18:47] John: If it's a small group, if it's a big group, it's still interactive. It's just a little different. I'll come in and do that. Speak like leader bootcamp and build in some things like working with people on the team on their origin story. And we'll do some exercises live that are amazing, like an unbelievable listening exercise.

[00:19:07] John: And another exercise that gives people access to controlling all of their unconscious, nonverbal and body language. And if they want to do the full three day thing, then I've got a media training on the last day. so companies will bring me in for that. And, sometimes they'll have me do a, a half day or a full day with the entire company.

[00:19:32] John: And then I'll spend the next day with like maybe the two different leadership teams or the three different leadership teams or whatever. And then they might put their, most public figures in that third day to do media training with me.

[00:19:46] Dustin: Okay, so you've got the one-on-one, which is an individual purchasing it. Maybe in some case their company pays for it, but basically it's an individual wants John's help to be a Ted worthy communicator, which sounds like it could be to actually go speak on stage, but it could also be as a leader within their own company or their own

[00:20:04] John: very much all of it.

[00:20:05] Dustin: Yeah. And then you have this other, what I would call more the B2B offer, which is a company hires John to come in and do various workshops from a half day to a three day different scales. And that's kind of a custom proposal probably for each one. But,

[00:20:19] Dustin: ballpark as far as revenue?

[00:20:22] Dustin: As far as like how much for one full day of workshop as an example, do you think?

[00:20:26] John: Yeah. so the half day workshop is 12 five, and since I gotta fly there anyway and I want to make it easy for people, I give them the full day for 15 grand and then if they want to Add on another day, it's 12, and if they want to do a third day, I might give them a little bit more of it off of the two days additional, you know?

[00:20:50] Dustin: Focusing on the one-on-one offer. We've danced around this a little bit already, so I have a pretty good sense, but in your words, who's the ideal client profile for that? You know, like who, and sometimes people struggle with this, so if you're like, I don't know how to describe I would say think of your favorite three clients in the past three or four years describe them to me.

[00:21:09] Dustin: You know?

[00:21:10] John: So it's kind of interesting to me how different the people that are coming into me for this are,

[00:21:17] John: if I look across the vast majority of people I've worked with one-on-one, First of and foremost, it's, business leaders who they're two things.

[00:21:27] John: There's either the business leaders who kind of get dragged in they've got great analytical skills, but they don't have very good emotional intelligence. So they, kind of get dragged in and told they're gonna have to work with me. and that always works out. That has always worked out, because once they get where I'm coming from and that I respect them, and that this is gonna be fun and useful, they're into it.

[00:21:50] John: You know,

[00:21:51] John: And then the other one is the high level leader who's already super good,

[00:21:57] John: but is the kind of person that wants to always be better.

[00:22:01] John: and I love that. So I mean, I've had a number of clients when they called me to work with them and said they thought I was the guy, I was like, dude, what can I ever do for this guy?

[00:22:11] John: You know?

[00:22:12] Dustin: You're so much better than me. How am I gonna teach you? Right. I have that sensation sometimes, so.

[00:22:16] John: But I keep reminding myself, if Tiger Woods coaches could have beat him at golf, they would have. Right. But because of them, and because he was coachable and, pulling it towards him, he beat everybody for what seemed like forever. So I go in and I've been able to make a difference every time, despite my little conversation before.

[00:22:37] John: and that's who I love to work with. I love to work with people who are just hungry, who are good, whatever stage they're at, who are just interested in being better. And it's usually C level, VP level. At companies like Boston Scientific, and Johnson and Johnson and Google and Intuit. Then there's also a group of just entrepreneurs.

[00:23:01] John: And they could be very small companies. They could be, SMEs in the classic definition. and they realize, Hey, wow, if I could talk to my team better, if I could talk to my clients better, if I, could make more of an emotional connection, if I could be more inspiring, it would really help.

[00:23:19] John: and then there's just a layer of, people who they want to get on either a TEDx stage and I, you know, and I'm not one of those people who's like, oh, if you pay me, I'll get you on a TEDx stage. Like and I actually know the people at Ted and they know me and I'm not gonna do that, you know? , but I will help people be Ted worthy. And so I've got a lot of, authors and I've got a lot of experts and I've got a lot of people who've got a message that have come to me and wanted me to help them.

[00:23:50] John: That, and. Just to be really clear, I love to get in as early as I can on any of these things. Like if we've got the annual sales conference coming up or if you've got a TEDx talk coming up, I would love to get in as soon as possible. 'cause I help people soup to nuts, right? Like, okay, what's the idea? What is it you want to communicate?

[00:24:11] John: What do you want them to leave thinking about and feeling? And then we craft it together and then I help them figure out how to deliver it really well and the strategic messaging on it. So I like to be early in with all of those different people on what they're working on.

[00:24:27] Dustin: It's interesting. So you've got kind, think of it sort of like a matrix. You've got, business leaders and it's sort of the subset of they're drug there 'cause they're really smart technical people and someone else is like, you gotta figure out how to talk to our people better.

[00:24:41] Dustin: Or there's the optimizers, but those business leaders are there. Then you got the entrepreneurs and then you got the, what I'll call like the stage pursuers who are some sort of expert subject matter expert. They really want to be Ted worthy and.

[00:24:53] Dustin: For the sake of Ted TEDx or conferences or, you know, whatever, they wanna be a professional speaker or have, stage time so kind of three identities three value so if we kind of a D 20 and you're like, Hey, I know I got business leaders, I got entrepreneurs, I've got these stage pursuers.

[00:25:12] Dustin: I would say sometimes usually are the same answer, but it could be who has paid you the most, but it could also be who you really like to work with. if you had to pick one of those three as a exercise, which one would you, if you could only work with one of those three, which one would you pick?

[00:25:27] John: I mean, I love working with all of them. I think that, on the 80 20 rule, in terms of who has the funds, who can invest, who is gonna make the biggest difference, like leveraged across their influence, it would probably be the business leaders. Not that I would wanna say no to anybody, but that's, for whatever it's worth, I.

[00:25:48] John: volunteered at the Boys and Girls Club when I was young, and my mom and dad made me stop after about a month because I just got big dark circles under my eyes and I stopped sleeping and I started getting depressed and weird because I just couldn't handle what I saw those kids going through.

[00:26:07] John: And my sister on the other hand worked with autistic kids since she was in high school, and like she just wades into whatever situation and just freaking makes it better. And it, you know, and she just, like, it doesn't bother her the same way it does me. I mean, I know she's committed to it and she cares, just doesn't drag her down.

[00:26:25] John: So I read the book Power versus Force got the idea of the logarithmic scale of human consciousness and. Decided that my calling was to work at the highest level of consciousness that I could possibly operate at and with people at that level because that's where the leverage is, and I'm just not very good at the other end, which I don't know how that makes me sound,

[00:26:51] Dustin: Makes you sound honest and in tune

[00:26:54] John: Yeah.

[00:26:55] Dustin: abilities and, and your unique ability. I mean, some people would be so intimidated actually most people would be so intimidated, they would never wanna face a business leader and try to teach them something. Like, you kind of mentioned this dynamic of like, why the hell are you hiring me?

[00:27:10] Dustin: Like I, you're, so much more successful than me. You're, you're more articulate already. They're Tiger Woods and your Tiger's coach. But like, you get that dynamic and you can step into that. I think many more people would rather be the tiger coach, you know, who's working with the municipal duffer, who like, I'm way better than you, myself.

[00:27:26] Dustin: I can definitely help you. sort of, self-confidence. and, and none of what you said sounded disparaging, but what I heard that is. Your energy, your intuition, your working genius, your unique ability, however we wanna categorize it, is sort of at the tip of the spear. It's like you thrive in helping the helpers, influencing the influencers.

[00:27:47] Dustin: And so, and

[00:27:47] Dustin: where I'm going with this is on a marketing standpoint, is we're not going to concurrently, , market to, in a bullseye sense, all three of these groups. Like we really need to one

[00:27:57] John: Yeah.

[00:27:58] Dustin: and realize that, hey, if, if we're in the dart board of like really smart technical people who want to optimize their communication, all over that dart board are entrepreneurs and authors and experts, and people with day jobs and pe you know, but in the bullseye are C-Suite and vp or C-Suite and VP worthy.

[00:28:17] Dustin: Executives who need this help. And if we focus our laser focus on that bullseye and we keep throwing darts at it, yeah, we'll hit some people all over the board. you're gonna get other clients in other words, but you're gonna get a lot more of the thing we're aiming at, which is the bullseye.

[00:28:31] Dustin: And so the key is that like, you wanna still be on the same board, so we don't wanna, have a bullseye one board, a bullseye on another board and a bullseye on another board, which I, what I'm hearing, I think there's, I think it makes a lot of sense. And, and also I think in the same breath you mentioned earlier, you haven't really had a huge focus on like, lifetime value of each client.

[00:28:49] Dustin: It's like, hey, they come in, I work with them, they're really happy. And then I don't really have anything to offer beyond that. you can confirm, but it sure sounds like they'd be the ones that would hire you then for a workshop or work with my team.

[00:29:00] Dustin: Or like, there's a lot more lifetime value to a business leader than an individual author who's trying to get on a TEDx stage. Is that

[00:29:07] John: Exactly. That is a really good point. Yeah.

[00:29:09] John: And it's not like I haven't fulfilled that life, like I've got a lot of long-term clients. I just have not been making it a focus to offer that and focus on that, which I think is a big mistake.

[00:29:22] Dustin: absolutely. that's one of the prescriptions I'm gonna have here, , shortly. Last thing I wanna ask you, and then we'll talk more tactically about like, what are some actual strategies for the marketing. Do you look at your 2026? We get to the end of the year. , And you said, man, I'm really glad I talked to Dustin.

[00:29:38] Dustin: I'm really glad, you know, all these other things kind of fell into place. Like I'm, have the business of my dreams. This is awesome. 'Cause you mentioned to me before the call, like, you're married, you've got a younger son, and you really, you want the predictability in your income, your energy levels, travel, all that stuff.

[00:29:54] Dustin: And so in your words, like revenue wise, any other team additions, number of clients, like what would be the perfect business in 2026 for John?

[00:30:04] John: it's not like I haven't thought about it. I just haven't really figured it out yet. But what goes through my mind if you think it'll just tell you what goes through my mind and to the

[00:30:12] Dustin: Yeah.

[00:30:13] John: you're the frame. Right? So I'm a one-man band with part-time virtual assistant who is awesome. And that's basically it. I don't have aspirations to grow this to some gigantic size. I wouldn't mind having a few more people on the team. Would love to have somebody that was super good at just making it rain, you know, business development, sales, whatever person would love to have that worked so well that I needed to pull in a few people and really train them up in my method and be able to shop them out right.

[00:30:52] John: And have enough business that I could keep them busy and make that worth everybody's while. , I'd love to have a community. Because I think there's so much power in that, both for the business owner and for the freaking community. You know, like I think of the people that I work with, if I could get them all together and just paying attention to each other, it just mind boggling what that would be like.

[00:31:19] John: And I think that that's also a really good, predictable revenue stream when, and it's one of those things that I think I could provide ongoing great value that would be super fun for me, right? Because like, I love being interested in everything that everybody's doing. 'cause I have total a DD that way. also love that I get to focus on something that I'm so passionate about and that I love and just keep bringing that, you know what I mean? And going deeper for people and they get value. and I would really like to. know, I really want to up my revenue. I've this business for me. The first year I went further in debt, like, and I was already 50 grand in debt.

[00:32:01] John: The second year I kind of broke. Even the third year I made more than I ever made in my whole life and I doubled Then I tripled that plus and like I know that I can totally sustainably just by myself do at least six or 700,000 in revenue at a very, very profitable way.

[00:32:25] John: So I think that if I had community, like I had somebody who really liked the marketing and business development in a way that I just don't anymore. . I think this could be a million dollar business with just a few more people and it could be exceedingly profitable. you know, that's where I'm aspiring to be at this stage in my career is, you know, let's get to that mid seven figure range for a while.

[00:32:54] John: Pay some people, not a big team, but a small team really, really well. And, be able to have people that would be filling in things so that I could have more time with my family and, have a little, bit more say over my schedule.

[00:33:11] Dustin: Love it. I think that's all very doable. You know, I think. The two 50 ish or wherever we're kind of, you know, checking in, coming out of the health crisis, , up to that 500 to seven 50. I think that's a very doable solo with a part-time virtual assistant. , It's my own story and, and I'm kind of in that next phase that you're talking about where it's like, Hey, let's add some redundancy to the fulfillment and let's add some other people that have their brain on the marketing and sales.

[00:33:38] Dustin: And you know, obviously then the top line goes up, the margins can shrink and that, that's always a balancing act. I think, I think this is easily a $3 million business with the small team supporting it. And I think in the, that one year vision, a 500, 750,000 solo plus va, and maybe you're looking at adding the first, key hire in that range, does that all feel like, man, that would be a really and, and good place to be.

[00:34:03] Dustin: and I think key in that too is. In that year, we'll call it 2026. There's a lot, there's a big difference between 500,000, , and 250 came in one month, you know, like, and then there was like a 0, 0, 0, and then there's another a hundred thousand, which I feel like kind of like this, teeter-totter you've been on, because that's the nature of a referral based business, right?

[00:34:23] Dustin: , You take it when it comes and when it's, it's when it rains, pours, and then sometimes there's, there's a drought and you don't really have a spigot to control the two. , So I think a $500,000 business, that looks a lot more like 50,000 plus or minus 10 a month, you know, where it's much more consistent.

[00:34:39] Dustin: Maybe there's some seasonality with, you know, summer and all that kind of stuff with your client base. , Let's just call it 500,000. And then let's say I like your core offers. I definitely think there's a continuity offer and an ongoing community offer here. . That we should in include in the equation.

[00:34:55] Dustin: , But you got like the 9,500, the 17, 70,500. You got the $40,000. I like to call like a Slack adjuster offer, right? Where you got this, not many people take it, but when they take it, it's like the people who buy an espresso machine at Starbucks, right? It's, it's there, it's in line. No one wants to buy it, but the one person who buys it for 700 bucks is like, their profits went the day and they made a of money.

[00:35:17] Dustin: It's like we do have the $40,000 package, but if you're not ready for that, we got this one for 17 five, and now 17 five sounds like in the park. where I'm getting at. I think your one-on-one offer stack is great.

[00:35:28] Dustin: You obviously like to fulfill that. I think there's some scalable stuff we, we wanna look at in the mix. , But just in really rough numbers, let's say, , 15,000 just kind of an average client value for those one-on-one packages. if we only have one-on-one, what's that? Like, , , 30 clients a year, 450,000, so like 40, 40 clients a year.

[00:35:48] Dustin: , If that's all you had, and so that sounds a little heavy to me from a fulfillment. I mean, it's, it's a new client almost a week. , And so then if we say, well, maybe we only want. 20 of those clients. Right. , So we want half our business to be one-on-one. And I'm doing, obviously doing very rough math in real time, but I to think of the offer ladder first and foremost about what you want.

[00:36:10] Dustin: Right. And so, so let's say we have half of our in revenues from one-on-one clients. That's really feels really good. And we're like even more than half, 300,000 from that. That's two clients a month, two clients a half revenue. it's what you're making now. And then the other half that we want to add basically, right, is what other offers can we have to fill a gap that you feel really good about? And that doesn't require unique marketing to fill, like it comes from the marketing that fills the 1 0 1.

[00:36:38] Dustin: think the workshops are already there. That's, part of The corporate workshops. . I definitely think there's a continuity Mastermind membership thing here, I wanna touch on that, , in just a second. My question to you, John. Do you see a role in that mix that you would enjoy for group coaching?

[00:36:57] Dustin: Or do you think this is a one-on-one thing that you, you don't really want to get into? Having to manage groups.

[00:37:02] John: No, no, no. I love group coaching and I did, a year long group coaching program called the Live Like a Leader Program when COVID hit. And I feel like it was really successful and I learned a lot. one thing I learned is that I could make it a guru based model where I show up every week with a new thing and all that, and that's cool and everything.

[00:37:25] John: And it makes me feel know my ego is satisfied, but what I didn't realize till, far into it, is how much more fulfilling and fun it would've been if I gave people responsibilities. Even though they're paying to be in the group. They want, like, they want to be expressed in that group.

[00:37:43] John: They want that group to know though, and they want to bring their expertise this group. And so like, I think that there's, A less tightly held group coaching model that I could do that would be super fulfilling for people to be in and would require a lot less of my time than I thought it did.

[00:38:02] John: and it would be much more of a, kind of managing group dynamics and making everybody feel heard and seen and gotten,

[00:38:10] Dustin: done it. You enjoyed it. You realize there's a lot of stuff you could improve in the way that it was structured, offered, delivered. Totally agree with you. I think it should be 90 days. and I'm being very prescriptive 'cause this is my zone of genius. Like on my 18th cohort doing this.

[00:38:24] Dustin: I think 90 day program have a very specific promise. I think a $10,000 price point on that. , You have a very much a peer-to-peer, , energy in there where yes, you're leading it, it is your program, your system, but there's a lot of peer-to-peer value that's added. the math gets real easy with a group that's, , I'm kind excited you said that, but if we just say for now, , we have three buckets of offer.

[00:38:47] Dustin: We have the one-on-one, a group coaching, and then we have this workshop slash , mastermind, that I wanna talk about last and says 250,000 in each. So 250,000 revenue from one on one. You seem very confident that that's kind of like a. Table stakes. That's kind of what you already do. You do one-on-one, you make about that much in revenue.

[00:39:06] Dustin: Even in sort of a, coming out of a, this health crisis zone, a group the master gets real fun If it, if it was 10,000 a seat, you only need, you only need 25 people the whole year to hit 250 K with that part of your model. Right? So if you did two cohorts of 12 people each, you had 90 days, you know, just did one in this January and one in September, because that's when people love to buy groups.

[00:39:31] Dustin: , You said two 90 day programs to start. I really think you could fill that, have 250,000 in revenue from a group. , And then the last $250,000 bucket is some workshops. I don't know how many of those you would like to do. . I think the other missing piece in this equation, is a, what I would call a continuity offer.

[00:39:48] Dustin: Write a, subscription offer, if you will. I think in your case, you said the word community, which I agree with, but I really you're in a prime position to host a mastermind. And mastermind and the way I use that word, it's a small, tight-knit community of people on a common mission.

[00:40:06] Dustin: And that it's, again, it's peer to peer, but it's not, a community in the sense that it's like 50 bucks a month and you get a whole bunch of like resources. It is a personal experience and people that really know each other and, and trust each other in a deep way. And think. You could fill a mastermind with a combination of one-on-one clients and group coaching clients, and then now you've got the same marketing that brings you one-on-one.

[00:40:29] Dustin: And then the people that don't wanna do one-on-one or who prefer a group, , go to the group. That same marketing engine fuels both those. And then the 10 to 20% of people who get to the end of that engagement and like, I really want this ongoing support. I want, you know, all the things that come with the community.

[00:40:45] Dustin: It's like, great, I have a small group mastermind. It's, you know, whatever, , 10,000, 20,000, whatever for the year. , And then that is something you do where you can do, you know, there's lots of different formats to that on how you would lead it, but

[00:40:59] Dustin: you could have a little bit of an in-person component. I know you like to do some in-person stuff, you could host some people in Southern California or, or whatever, but, let's say that's a, let's just call it a $25,000 group right now, for the year.

[00:41:10] Dustin: 10 people in a mastermind is 250,000. 20 people in a group coaching program at 10 k or 25 people is 250,000. And then, you know, at roughly 10 to 15,000 a client, , on the one-on-one, you only need, , what, 10 to 20, depending on kind of where they fall in that spectrum. Plot 2020 at 12 five. So 21 oh ones, 25 groups, and then that's 45 total humans.

[00:41:38] Dustin: And then the Mastermind is completely fed by those two groups, right? Like you, could let people into the mastermind directly, but largely it would just be filled by outflows from the two group coaching programs you do a year and the one-on-ones. How does all that feel is just like in a volume, sort of like structure, sustainability, scalability standpoint?

[00:41:58] John: it feels pretty doable, I feel like I've, in a way sort of, done all those pieces one way or another, and I'm trying to, picture the, the flow of my weeks and my months and things. It, definitely feels doable.

[00:42:14] Dustin: Yeah, because you're down to two, one-on-one clients a month and we're running one group for part of the year and then running the Mastermind throughout the year.

[00:42:22] Dustin: Then if we go and we market work with John to be a TED worthy communicator, and then basically the options are one-on-one with John at a premium or come into our group, , I wouldn't even say it's not at a premium, it's just, that's just a different option. Some people prefer group, it is more affordable.

[00:42:39] Dustin: Some people really like that peer-to-peer. I, generally always do groups. I don't really wanna be one-on-one coach. I like group dynamic. And so we we're going all the way back to those three big buckets. We have the business leaders, the entrepreneurs, and the stage pursuers. Generally speaking, you're probably gonna get mostly one-on-one for the business leaders.

[00:42:57] Dustin: And generally speaking, it gives you a very good spot to put the entrepreneurs and the stage pursuers and some of the business leaders into this group bucket. Any of them, if they are sort of in the top 10% of your client base could be eligible for your mastermind. And you select who gets into that.

[00:43:14] Dustin: And then your mastermind now. Has a lot of great business leaders, but it also has entrepreneurs and it also has other experts and authors and people doing professional speaking. I think for a very rich mastermind experience for an ongoing group dynamic, standpoint. So I like all that. I mean, as far as like just a structure of like, because I think that is all doable by 2026.

[00:43:36] Dustin: you'd roll these out sequentially where you prioritize one, get it going, then prioritize the next. In this case you may be able to inform a mastermind based on your, all your client roster that you can pull

[00:43:47] Dustin: You know, or you could, you know, make a goal to maybe launch a group in January with a much tighter promise for a price where it's 10,000, it's 90 days.

[00:43:56] Dustin: This is exactly what we're gonna accomplish together. And the year long thing is both harder to sell and harder to fulfill. that's our revised business model, John. , we need 40 to 50 total clients that are interested in Ted worthy communication as business leaders.

[00:44:10] Dustin: That's gonna create a pipeline, or it's gonna come from a pipeline into one-on-one and group programs. And those two both feed out into an ongoing mastermind. , You know, if you get to a point where you're really wanting to step down, you can or step out, you can have other people run the group. Even other people run the one-on-one and maybe the mastermind becomes your personal playground where you, you paid really well to treat your best clients and that sort of your semi-retirement plan, right?

[00:44:36] Dustin: , So then the question, there's not a huge volume, but then the question becomes, where do we find one ideal client a week? Basically, because that is really what you need to have 40 to 50 new clients coming into pipeline.

[00:44:48] John: That's where my stomach falls is like, oh yeah, I gotta find them. Right?

[00:44:54] Dustin: maybe, , this was, , preordained because you know who I am and what I do, and, but you, you said it earlier, like, I really believe that podcast guesting and partnerships are a big part of how I be doing marketing. I agree. , Someone who's a gifted communicator, a natural speaker, a storyteller, I think long form educational content where you can tell your own story, you can tell your client stories and use that as the lighthouse, the, the magnet that attracts your ideal clients to you.

[00:45:21] Dustin: I think totally it. And so if we're talking about podcasting specifically podcast guesting, so, if I said, Hey, you only get to be on 10 podcasts, , next year, , we won't worry about the names of the podcast, but if you had to describe what type of podcast, who listens to the podcast, who's the host, like what, feels like the right place to put your talents?

[00:45:46] Dustin: If our primary focus is getting top business leaders as our bullseye and realizing other people will be on the dartboard and kind of come to us naturally through this focused effort. Yeah.

[00:45:57] John: I'm embarrassed to say like I, I, I don't really know, like, I would imagine I would want to be on podcasts that were being listened to by. Top business leaders. Right? And if there's a focus on continuous improvement, that's probably really good. , ,

[00:46:13] Dustin: when you think of your favorite clients and you know, they're, they or their company are spending good money on you for communication help, and you talk to them over a beer or tea or whatever, what else are they investing in? Like, what other things do they feel like they need help with to be top executives?

[00:46:30] John: that's a really good question and I need to have more beers or cup cups of teas with my clients is what me realize right now. You know, and it's interesting because I spend so much one-on-one, super deep time in my one-on-one coaching things, I haven't made a habit of asking those kinds of questions, which I easily could.

[00:46:54] John: . So I think there's a huge opportunity for me there to get to know my clients as well as I think I know them on one hand, like I don't know them at all on the other hand in that way. And there's a huge, that's a huge missing and a huge opportunity.

[00:47:10] Dustin: and the good news is you can have these conversations now with current clients. You can have, , for the ones that you know, you know, you have a 92 net promoter score as seen on LinkedIn, you have a great relationship with your past clients. It's a very easy ask. You just need a reason to ask, so you can go back and be like, Hey, I'm working with a new business coach and we're getting really refined on my business.

[00:47:31] Dustin: One of his questions that I honestly couldn't answer was, what are the top line items in your professional development budget?

[00:47:38] Dustin: Because that's gonna start to tell you what conferences they invest in, what what other coaches, consultants, , agencies they work with. , what I'm looking for here are centers of influence who serve your ideal client in a different way.

[00:47:51] Dustin: , There's the direct route, and I'm, purposefully sort of being obtuse with this. Like, business leaders do listen to business leadership podcasts. Right. So there's a director out here, John, without getting into the partnership part of this, , where it's like, Hey, John should be on podcasts where these leaders listen, but also probably more easily found is actually worthy, are featured as experts.

[00:48:14] Dustin: So who's the podcast host? Who's inviting your ideal clients to be the featured expert to talk about leadership? Technology, since you're in a lot of tech spaces, ai, like, Hey, this is the vice president of blah, blah, blah at Procter and Gamble. he's gonna come on and teach us this stuff. That is your ideal client.

[00:48:33] Dustin: And so how do we then put you in proximity to that person? Well, that same podcast that wants to know what's the current business challenge or the next, forefront of business leadership and tech space or whatever. You can slide right into that as a guest, as someone who works with these people.

[00:48:49] Dustin: And you have an insider look into the importance communication and workplace, the importance of communication and age of ai, right? Like how important their own story and origin story is to their success as a leader. When a lot of the people are talking about just make an AI version of them. Let them lead the company.

[00:49:06] Dustin: You know, like,

[00:49:06] Dustin: The whole idea is let's get you on a podcast where these, a lot of your ideal clients are being interviewed. , May also be the host of some these people like to host podcasts, and now you're in that ecosystem and becomes a very natural extension for you To Joe Marion, John, three other executives who have been on the same show.

[00:49:26] Dustin: Hey, Joe, I was recently on this show talking about communication for executives. I'd love to connect with you on LinkedIn. You have 25,000 followers. You've got a really good credibility there. , Hey, Jane, same thing. You just connect with these people that are guests on this in the same ecosystem. You know, they like to talk and teach, you know, they're an executive.

[00:49:44] Dustin: , You know, they're into communication and storytelling because they're on podcasts talking about this stuff and teaching, and you already like to work with the best of the best. So then it's like, as the conversation ensues, you're like, Hey, I know that you work at Proctor and Gamble. I used to work with. Jerry Sue over in this division, or Hey, you work at Boeing. I've actually had a bunch of clients at nasa. it's easy for you to make connections to things that would seem relevant to these individuals at their companies.

[00:50:12] Dustin: that's one sort of on the nose podcast guessing strategy is like, let's just get you on shows that get you in proximity to your ideal clients.

[00:50:20] John: And you know, one of the things that I realize is that when I look at who I'm actually working with right this very minute, one of the greatest lead sources I've had over the last year as I've made my comeback is that I went and spoke for free and flew myself in and whatever to be at some of these other mastermind groups, There's a woman named Michelle Villalobos, and she had me come help her people at a live mastermind, and they freaking all fell in love with me. And it took some of them a while to convert, but like were people who were with her and what I brought was something they really wanted along with that.

[00:51:01] John: And, another guy named Tommy Breedlove, you know, like I've done a bunch of free stuff for him and all of a sudden a number of people from his masterminds have been reaching out and like, John, I, it's finally time. You know, so that's definitely When you say, what other things are they investing in?

[00:51:18] John: They're investing in, go get 'em. you are serious about your success. You're a go-getter. Like that kind of a mastermind. That's not around what I do. Or even that it is tangentially around what I do. You know, that's definitely a place where some of my clients are, coming from.

[00:51:37] John: So clearly they're investing in that stuff

[00:51:40] Dustin: I think if you do the math of one podcast guest appearance a week and one per month of these deeper embedded trainings. you've got a predictable marketing system that doesn't really require much sophistication. It doesn't require paid ads. , It's all relationship based, which I already know is your strong suit anyway.

[00:51:58] Dustin: , And, you know, you're building a flywheel. So the first year of this, you're putting in the reps, you're doing the outreach, you're finding the opportunities. you can definitely lean on your past clients for shortcuts. , But as, as you get this rolling, it becomes a self perpetuating machine. And a lot of these opportunities start to come to you because you're the authority.

[00:52:15] Dustin: People know you, they hear about you in someone else's group. And, oh, I run a mastermind, come speak to my group.

[00:52:20] Dustin: And by the way, John, what's really cool if you start to sell a lot through other people's masterminds is that when you have your own. People who like to be a masterminds like to be a masterminds, right?

[00:52:29] Dustin: So like, if these people become clients, they're very naturally gonna want to be in your mastermind because they already believe in that model and invest just I like to come in and guest train in group coaching programs because like, hey, if people are spending money on a premium group coaching program, 'cause that's how they like to learn and connect with people, maybe mine's the next one they want to be in.

[00:52:47] Dustin: and in the same way, you know, selling in the modality that you deliver can be powerful. So purposely like jamming a lot in there. We got like two minutes left. But, is this feeling, like you're getting some momentum out of this conversation at least.

[00:53:00] John: I'm really glad that we did this. Thank

[00:53:04] Dustin: your useful takeaway? And then we'll tell people how to get ahold of you and, we'll wrap up, this session.

[00:53:09] John: so I'm gonna go kind of meta on this. My, I think my most useful takeaway is that, I kind of came in here feeling sort of hopeless about my top of funnel, you know what I mean? And I am leaving feeling like it's maybe much more simple than I've been making it, and it's not nearly as hopeless as I've been making it.

[00:53:31] John: And like, maybe I don't even have to figure out how to do freaking Facebook ads that I

[00:53:37] Dustin: Cool. Well, I love this time, , as people, , listening to these series know, I mean, we could, talk for three hours, but , we try to limit ourselves to about an hour here. , So if people are like, I actually need some John Bates in my life, I could use Ted worthy communication skills.

[00:53:51] Dustin: What's the best place to send people to connect with you directly, John?

[00:53:54] John: So it's easy to remember john bates.com, but that's a little more about me and my keynotes. executive speaking success.com is the website where I go more into my corporate training and my one-on-one executive coaching. I'm also really active on LinkedIn, so linkedin.com/in/ John Bates.

[00:54:18] John: those would be the places to find me. And if you come DM me on LinkedIn or if you send me an email from the website, either of the websites, I'll respond personally. So, happy to hear from people and, and if people are interested in seeing a little more about what I do, I'm super active on LinkedIn, so.

[00:54:35] Dustin: I love it. you've done a good job, , claiming John Bates, which is just j you know, OHN, and then B-A-T-E-S, like, so he has John Bates on LinkedIn, John bates.com, , and then , the executive speaking executive speaking success.com. So, well, John, really appreciate your transparency. , I got a little emotional with some of your story, but, I love it.

[00:54:55] Dustin: I believe in you. I know that like you should just go all in on relationship building at scale by teaching and coaching people, which is what you already love to do. I think you need the right system around it to capture all the energy and, and outflow that comes from it. And, , look forward to following along with your success.

[00:55:11] John: Okay. Thank you Dustin. I really appreciate your time. Like I, this is super valuable. You're good at what you do, and I appreciate it.

[00:55:19] Dustin: Well, thank you. All right, well, everyone listening, , stay tuned. We got more coming in our coaching series. , So catch to the next one.