Why Does Human Connection Matter More in the Age of AI? with Chad Littlefield

Chad [00:00:00] I think this is especially important in the age of AI, where you can literally create something at the speed of thought. It doesn't mean you should create something at all, period. Right? It doesn't matter the speed. Just 'cause it's easy to do doesn't mean you should.

Michael Today on the Influential Leader Podcast, I sit down with my dear friend Chad Littlefield.

Michael Chad has a lot of superpowers. to name a few, he is one of the best facilitators I know of group experiences, and I, and I say that after a 20-year career of facilitating groups. he asks some of the best questions a- he even wrote a book called Ask Powerful Questions. and he's genuinely one of the most curious individuals, that I'm, proud to know.

Michael And so we cover a lot of ground in this episode. Really excited for you to hear all the good value that Chad brings into this conversation. But to highlight a few things that stood out to me, he presents two clear rules for asking better questions, which are very tactical and tangible to take away. We talk about the value of slowing [00:01:00] down and doing absolutely nothing, and why, maybe all of us should do this more.

Michael We talk about why giving up decision-making as a leader sooner than you think you should can actually be an advantage. Chad gives us three rules for being the best mentor. Really, really enjoyed, that part of our conversation on mentorship. And then lastly, how the art of invitation as a leader is actually a superpower.

Michael So please enjoy this wide-ranging conversation with my good friend Chad Littlefield Welcome to the Influential Leader Podcast. It brings me great joy to introduce my good friend, Chad Littlefield, co-founder of We and Me. Forbes called Chad a global expert on asking questions that build trust and connection.

Michael Chad is a TEDx speaker, a bestselling author, and the creator of the We! Connect Cards, which we may talk about today, a tool now being used in over 80 countries to create conversations that matter. Chad and his company, and late [00:02:00] co-founder Will Wise, wrote the book Ask Powerful Questions, which is consistently a number one bestseller on Amazon.

Michael If you want your kids or grandkids to think you're cool, tell them that you met a real-life YouTuber, which Chad is. His library of 500 videos plus has earned f- millions of views. Each one is designed to help leaders make connection and engagement easy. Chad has brought his workshops, ideas, and interactive keynotes to Crayola, JetBlue Airways, Johnson & Johnson, Starbucks, dozens of top universities, and even the CIA.

Michael Welcome to the show, Chad.

Chad Thanks, Michael. I almost... I was thinking just looking at your face and the kinship that we've shared together over the years, almost interrupted the intro and just started with dun, dun, dun, dun, dun, dun, dun, dun-dun. Just knowing that it would make you laugh. I'm, I'm super excited to chat in this format, and thanks for the invite.

Michael And for us, I'm super excited. As a starting point, your bio is super impressive. [00:03:00] We're gonna dive into that. But as a starting point, knowing you as a human being would be interesting a little bit more. So if you had to say three things that would help us get some inside baseball into who Chad is as a human, outside of the bio, what three things come to mind?

Chad Yeah, I love that. I, this summer, have started taking kite surfing lessons, and in the middle of taking kite surfing lessons, which is a new water sport hobby, I tried this, like, weird electric surfboard thing called an eFoil and got addicted to that as well. And so this summer, I've picked up two water sport hobbies on top of already being interested in free diving and swimming and scuba diving, and, like, I have a problem with water, is one that you need to know.

Chad And so recently, and so there's something, I don't know, I just have this belief our bodies are 70% water, and when I'm near a body of water, whether I have a bathing suit or not, I'll be hard-pressed not to get in it. So that is [00:04:00] one thing that is just a core part of like a, a, a very, like, soul nourishing level thing for me.

Chad And then- I think the other piece that I am still learning about my own brain, but as the, like, popularity, if that fits, like the popularity, popularization of, like, ADHD and neurodivergence and whatnot. But I, I realize the more that I kinda compare my brain to my wife's brain or, like, understand how other people think, I'm like, what is a normal cadence and speed of thinking for me?

Chad Like, the amount of thoughts that pass through my head, it's just, it's chaotic up here. there's a lot going on, and that's a superpower at work sometimes, but it really requires me to, like, be very intentional to slow down and be really deeply present with, family. And, like, in a, in a personal [00:05:00] context, it takes a good bit for me to slow my roll.

Michael Mm. Yeah, yeah. That's good. That's good. One quick thought that's emerging related to eFoiling. Have you ever read the book, The Art of Learning?

Chad No, but I'm super curious about it

Michael Yeah. So Josh Waitzkin, who his, his bio, as I understand it, super impressive, like started out as a Tai Chi push hands practitioner, then moved into jujitsu, high level practitioner there, and I think his latest thing is eFoiling.

Michael And when he talks about it, he talks about how the, the art of learning, how you learn anything well can be applied to anything. And so yeah, you, you, you might be interested in checking that, checking that book out.

Chad I'm gonna check it out. I'm gonna see if there's a, like a recent podcast or something of him talking about foiling.

Chad It's like one of the reasons I'm really interested in both of these is, particularly kite surfing, way harder, way steeper learning curve than I'm, I'm used to, and I feel so [00:06:00] pushed and challenged by that. I'm like frustrated that I haven't just figured it out, and, and I can... You can also see very quickly that there is in- near infinite progression of mastery.

Chad I think similar, like I know... I, I wonder if, how you feel about the art of learning related to martial arts. Some things you learn, like you, when you're a kid you learn that a red light, it turns red so you stop, and a green light turns green and you go, and then you're just kind of done learning. Like some things are just, they enter the land of knowing and then that's it.

Chad But the, the whole not being able to do kite surfing even once or foiling even once without learning something is really compelling to me to... I'm not just like going out and doing some repetitive fun thing. There's learning embedded within that fun thing for me.

Michael Yeah, man. What, what stands out to me there, I think is like an opportunity for all of us is, like find a thing that allows you to continue building mastery [00:07:00] in, no matter what it is, right?

Michael 'Cause it, there's so much benefit in that, and there's... And I think there's so much, cross-reference that it builds, you know? If we're, if we're in a pursuit that ul- that allows us to constantly master, I think that, that spreads out to all the parts of our life. So yeah, it makes sense.

Chad Started working with, this functional medicine doctor several months ago and, you know, the, the core pillars of it, you gotta, you gotta sleep good, you gotta eat good, you gotta exercise.

Chad There's like these really big core pillars. He's added a couple, one being connection and one being, challenge, believing that like in order to live a full and healthy life, like if you don't have something that is challenging and stretching and pushing you, then you're missing out. And I'm finding that one of the challenges in addition to sports is I'm kicking around the idea of swimming across Lake Erie, which is like 25 miles, and it's gonna be totally not fun at all, very painful.

Chad It's gonna take 15 hours of just constant swimming- And [00:08:00] I'm finding just at the idea of kicking around that challenge, my brain is rearranging itself. I'm, like, orienting toward, like, when I go on a swim now, I'm now thinking, like, "Okay, what would it be like for this to be mile 12?" Like, I feel sore now and I'm on mile two.

Chad And, and so that, that rearranging, but I think when there is something that's... What is Michael Bungay Stanier talks about a challenge being,or a, an a worthy goal, I think he calls them. A worthy goal being thrilling, daunting, and important And there's something like the, I think swimming across a lake that you could just take a boat or drive your car around isn't important unless I make it a fundraiser for some charity that, some cause that I care about, some awareness raising thing, which I will do.

Chad And so it's like thrilling, daunting. That might just be randomly kite surfing, but important is could I get my brother into eFoiling so we can do it together and build that [00:09:00] relationship? and I like adding that important, important dimension to a challenge.

Michael I, I love that. Yeah, and I, and I fully, fully agree.

Michael I think you and I share that, this notion of like finding things to suffer at and the, and the value, and the value you brought up your brother. I also think, and I've found this to be true too, like it's a way to build bonds. You know, it's a way to strengthen relationships, like doing something like that together.

Michael So yeah, that's, that's cool. I wanna back up a little bit and go back into some of your, some of your history, We'll go in a lot of directions, but, you have shared that, you have an affinity towards the movie Patch Adams. Right. And why is Patch Adams important to you, and what, and you know, knowing, knowing that you've shared this story before, what I'm particularly curious about is like, what is it about that story that you think really touched your heart?

Chad I think, so Patch Adams, for anybody who hasn't seen it, Robin Williams becomes a doctor to promote the quality of life over quantity, and I was so struck by how in the [00:10:00] movie, what I perceived or the language I use to attach to it now, I was just attracted to whatever he was doing. but it, I think he was actually h- healing people through connection, not clinical practice.

Chad And what I mean by that, one of my favorite scenes, which I, you know, the entire movie could be boiled down for me, or the entire essence of h- how he practiced could be boiled down to this scene where he walk- walks into a terminally ill patient's room. This guy was grumpier than hell. N- the smartest doctors, nurses, clinicians could not get this guy to eat, couldn't get him to respond, talk.

Chad Like, he was just, he's checked out, right? He's terminally ill. He was just mad. And Patch walked in and looked at him in the eyes, and as his first touch point to a new person who's a terminally ill patient, he looked at him and said, "Kick the bucket. Push the daisies." And he went back and forth, a- and so eventually after about three, four idioms about death, this patient fired one back, and they ended up just [00:11:00] laughing at ridiculous idioms about death.

Chad And, and it was, for me, no medical textbook would ever teach you that, but that's the deepest possible empathy to think, what would it be like to be in your last months- stuck in a hospital and, you know, this, you're not really avoiding confronting your own mortality. You're sitting in it. And so the empathy was I'm just gonna steer full on into that curve in that moment.

Chad This is, by the way, not a recommendation for all terminally ill, patients. It was like, this guy. It was very personalized. Yeah, so a- and I think when I saw that movie, I was like, cool, definitely don't wanna go to med school. That seems really hard. it's gonna take a long time, but I'm really enamored.

Chad I wanna study and figure out w- k- is there any actual evidence to people, relationships, performance, productivity being healed through just the way that we relate to each other, through relatedness? and so that's the path that I pursued.

Michael Yeah. Well, and you're the absolute expert on, you know, facilitation and connection [00:12:00] and asking questions, and yeah, it's cool to hear some of the roots for that, for that pursuit.

Chad Well, I think I, I realized at some point that if you, if you make most things easy, they lose a lot of meaning. So it's like if you buy a mug on Amazon, it'll get to you in four days, but if your mom goes to a pottery class and makes you a mug and gives it to you as a gift, like not convenient, not easy, but a lot of meaning.

Chad So the only exception to this that I found is if you can make connection easy, it smooths the to meaning.

Michael It's interesting you say that. What comes up for me is like, and I know, and I know you're excellent at this because I've seen you do it, making connection easy and like what comes up for me is, is, is a curiosity of are people still having to move through a certain bit of discomfort, which is also what makes it valuable?

Chad Yes. For sure. '

Michael Cause to your point, right, it's like nothing, and I, I absolutely agree with you, like [00:13:00] nothing that is so convenient and so easy has meaning and value. And so maybe even though connection is made easy, there's still discomfort that people have to s- to move through, which is also what makes it value- valuable.

Chad I recently unsubscribed from all forms of news except for a local newspaper, and my thinking is like if I hear about something going on in Libya, that's probably, and if it's in the news, it's probably bad. and I'm like, I know for me the chances are close to zero, and, and 99% of news consumers, the chances are almost zero that you're gonna do anything about something happening on the other side of the world.

Chad But when I get this local newspaper, it's like all stuff within my sphere of influence, and so I've actually taken action. I've reached out to authors of articles. I'm like doing the showing up to events that are happening. I'm like being changed by this local form of news. Anyway, I mention that because I was reading last night in this paper newspaper like I'm living in the 1970s, reading this article on mindfulness, and it was talking about how- [00:14:00] Mindfulness has been sold, or has, you know, b- been popularized so much and being sold as this, like, convenient, easy, stress-reducing, relaxing thing.

Chad But if you go, like, to a Buddhist root, it's like encountering and sitting with your own suffering, and it's hard. It's not meant to be easy, and that is part of how you get all the benefits of mindfulness, is to sit with all of that discomfort. and so, and so I'm tr- I think I'm, you know, yes, making connection easy, but also rebranding the, making the ability to jump into connection easier.

Chad And so maybe for me it's like shortcutting small talk. maybe it's undesigned, unintentional connection has started to bother me more, as opposed to can we gather for a particular purpose, and c- can everybody get behind that reason for being there? And if it's compelling enough, like, you don't have to trick people into being engaged in a meeting.[00:15:00]

Chad It's like, "No, I actually, I'm bought into this cause. I'm gonna give it my all right now."

Michael Very cool. Well, yeah, we'll, we'll talk more about facilitation. I know, I know that's a, you know, superpower. I want to ask you a question. This is a little bit selfish. So you're a dad of small children, and I, I'm also a new dad of smaller children.

Michael And so I, I'm curious about what has fatherhood taught you about how to ask better questions?

Chad Hmm. One lesson is, okay, two very practical and fun things which I think you'll love. One, just making a question novel, just by a question not being like what everybody else asks, it like puts it in a category of a better, more interesting novel, like question, and you, and you get better answers. And so instead of, you know, Otto and Ellie just finished their like last session of gymnastics yesterday, and instead of saying like, "Oh, good job," pat on the back, reward achievement, [00:16:00] tell them that they're only loved if they do good.

Chad Kate's really good about practicing, and I kind of follow, of like asking a question to kind of debrief their experience. And instead of... So asking, so at level one you're like, "How did that feel?" Well, that's a kind of a common question, so it's like, whatever, you give a quick response and move on. I think the question she asked was, "What particular part of the routine did you feel most proud?"

Chad And just that question is like nuanced and interesting enough that it raises a flag for their brain and, and you see both the kids go, "

Michael Hmm."

Chad And I think the, for me, if a question makes a kid or an adult go, "Hmm," then it's a potentially a very good question, 'cause it means they haven't thought of a response and they don't have like a cheap answer to give you.

Chad They actually have to generate a meaningful, real one. So that's one. The other one, and I stumbled on this. This is like, this is gonna make me sound like a good dad. I stumbled on this crap totally by accident, and that [00:17:00] is, I usually do Otto's bedtime and Kate usually does Ellie's bedtime. That's just the way, in this season right now, that it's worked out.

Chad And so I've got a little bit of a routine with Otto. We do these things in this order. I tell this story. But one of the parts of the routine I've just labeled Dada Listening Time, and the rules are, and I told him... And the way it started out was it was actually, "You can ask me any question, Otto. So anything happening in your day, anything you want to debrief, it's a safe place.

Chad Like, you can ask me absolutely anything." Somehow that turned into like a season of like a few weeks where he kept asking me just like silly, like, you know, "How is glass made? How is a light bulb... " It was like, it was like a basically an episode of how it's made. How is light bulb, how are light bulbs made?

Chad How are paper made? I'm like, "I don't really know the answers to this, and this isn't really what I was going for with Dada Listening Time." And so I flipped it. And so I changed, okay, new rules, Dada Listening Time. I ask you questions and you can tell me anything that you want. [00:18:00] And I didn't know how he would interact with...

Chad He loves Dada Listening Time. There was, we were riding our bikes around the cul-de-sac, in our neighborhood the other day and kind of at night just before bed, and he actually said to me "Dad, can we do data listening time out here?" And we rode, my watch was tracking, we rode two miles around a cul-de-sac with just me asking him questions, 'cause he was just like, "More.

Chad Like, ask another one, ask another one." so now, now we... Like, I need to stimulate my own creativity to ask questions, and so we'll do series. It'll be like, I'll ask him three questions related to dogs, and three questions about classes, and three questions a- And I will blend in, and here's the last learning, Otto's love language right now is play and silliness.

Chad He's a kid, and so I don't ask him all questions like, "What are you most proud of?" Sometimes I ask him really goofy questions, and I blend it with serious questions. It's almost like I sneak in serious [00:19:00] questions in the right moment, surrounded by safe, comfortable, fun things, and that has been just so, such a, created such a beautiful point of connection for us.

Michael That's so good. That's so good. I hope, I hope for all that are listening, the, the translation is being, is being made here. 'Cause even though we're talking about fatherhood, of course, like, these are such great practices for leaders to take. You know, like you're... I, I was taking notes as I was listening to you, like the whole notion of novelty.

Michael I wrote down, "Novelty wins." Like, that is a frame for question asking, so for leaders that are listening. And the, the whole notion of, like, listening time and tell me, you know, tell me anything time, or listening and anything time, like you could take those practices and apply them to working with employees to...

Michael Yeah.

Chad Let's do it now. Let's not make people think too hard. Let's say, like, you have a one-on-one with an employee. You could ask them, you know, "What's on your mind? How are you doing right now?" As a way of opening that conversation. Or you could say, "Hey, this is a bit odd, but you know, you do all this work that I'm not [00:20:00] around for.

Chad What's one, like, really small, hyper unbelievably specific part of your job that you'd want to sh- tell me about and share with me?"

Michael Yeah. Super good.

Chad It's like they've never been asked that question, but it's gonna feel really good. They're gonna be acknowledged just by being able to share something that is otherwise totally invisible to their boss.

Michael Yeah, absolutely. I'm always, you know, getting back to fatherhood, I'm always, like, surprised at how with our l- our little one, Junie, she's two and a half or so, the moment I say to her, "Hey, Junie, can I ask you a question?" She'll, like, lock eyes with me, Chad. Like she's, she's like in. It's like, it's like if I ever want to get her presence for whatever reason, I'll say, you know, "Hey, Junie, can I ask you a question?"

Michael And oftentimes I am just genuinely curious. But man, it's wild how that just brings presence and, yeah, these are, these are really good, good tips, transferable tips.

Chad Okay, I wonder if this one's gonna transfer. My most [00:21:00] recent experiment, fatherhood experiment lately is think about questions that my kids ask me on repeat all day, all the time.

Chad For example, "Hey, Dada, can you watch this? Watch me do this, watch me do this, watch this, watch this." Like, they want to- So I'm trying to pay attention to what questions are they asking me on repeat, like something that they want, and then can I beat them to the punch and ask them before they even ask me, "Ooh, hey Ellie, can I watch you do something?"

Chad Like I just say something and, oh my gosh, that's like, they're like, "What? You proactively wanna do the thing that I always want you to do that you never do 'cause you're too busy doing other things?" And so I think a- applying that, you know, if you've got an employee that's frustrating you 'cause they're always asking you how to do something specific, beating them to the punch and saying, "Hey, can you show me how you do this one process?

Chad I- it's been years since I've done it."

Michael Super good, man. Yeah. I, I absolutely see that transfer, and I hear it. Hear it from a lot of clients, like... [00:22:00] And, and both sides, the leader that, you know, is trying to figure out how to build engagement, and then those that are being led. Trying... Essentially the way I frame it is like trying to be seen, which is what we all want, right?

Michael We all wanna be, wanna be seen and heard, and so that's, that's what I, that's what I hear you saying. switching gears a little bit, you mentioned creativity for a second. I wanna ask you a creativity related question and I'm gonna, I'm gonna do a little, for those watching on video, I'm gonna do a little call-out to Chad's brilliance here.

Michael Yes. So you've got all these things, right? You got, you got a card deck, you've got books, you've got another card deck. This is not the suite of your products. You have many other products in your, repertoire. But my question related to this is, you know, what, what do you do when you feel blocked creatively?

Michael Or if that's not a thing for you, what inspires you to be so creative? So take that in any direction you want.

Chad Lately, the answer's probably changed, like, through the years. Lately it's been do nothing for as long as possible.

Michael Hmm, okay. Say more about that, yeah.

Chad [00:23:00] It is so easy. So our world is so heavily designed and primed for our consumption that it's so easy to just be this, like, infinite feed of, I mean, if you're hearing this, you're literally listening to a podcast.

Chad You're taking in content. And that's really useful in seasons to, like, take in all this information, but you also have to, like, synthesize it and do something with it. And so for me lately, it's been knowing I have enough information in my head right now. I need to sit long enough to get clear on what I want to do, and then go full speed ahead.

Chad And I think this is, especially important in the age of AI, where you can literally create something at the speed of thought. It doesn't mean you should create something at all, period. Right? It doesn't matter the speed. It's like just 'cause you can do it, just 'cause it's easy to do doesn't mean you should.

Chad And so for me, I realized I kind of had a full break when I got... I went [00:24:00] deep one week with Claude Code and I had, I had six really interesting, compelling projects going. I was like building an, a group activity library database that use, using all of our tools. I was building out this other website for this.

Chad I was doing this other... And then I paused, and they were all 80 to 95% done. And I realized Ben, my brother, who works with me kind of managing all the physical products in the company, used to work at Amazon. And he said once that one of the things that Jeff Bezos... Jeff hired a VP at one point, and the VP said, came to Jeff and said, "Jeff, you have enough good ideas to kill this company."

Chad Meaning people cannot keep up with the pace of your thinking. You need to slow things way down and roll this idea out this quarter and this idea out this quarter, and if you have 12 ideas, that's three years baked out for Amazon, right? It's like [00:25:00] 12 quarters. And so for me, because I know those ideas come so quickly, it's actually...

Chad And when I say sitting doing nothing, I literally mean I- on the other side of the camera, I have what I call my thinking chair. So pick a chair that you're thinking- dedicated as your thinking chair. It doesn't matter if it's a fold-out chair or a La-Z-Boy, and sit in it until you feel really clear on something you wanna do, like a big thing that you wanna do, and then get up and go start working on it You'll move way faster, and, and I suspect you'll actually finish it too.

Michael Sure, sure. Yeah, the, the, the common quote, I think it's pretty common, "To slow down to go fast." You've probably heard that before. That's, that's what comes to mind for me as I, as I'm taking notes and listening. Yeah. So, you know, great, great application for leaders. I want to ask you a leadership specific question, which as a, as a little bit of a tease, one of the questions we'll ask at the very end that I'll ask of you is what questions should we ask our [00:26:00] next guest?

Michael So this question came from our last guest, and it's about leadership. and the question is, what leader has impacted you the most for better or for worse? And y- you know, feel free to guard the name if that's helpful. But yeah, what comes to mind with that question?

Chad The immediate person that shows up for me is Rod Lee, who was a mentor in college.

Chad I took a team and leadership development course with him in college. So it was like an ex- his background was in experiential adventure education, so this course was 30 students, shove the desks to the back and, like, teach and actually do a bunch of group exercises and, it was like, just love this course.

Chad And I would go up at the end of class, every single class, and tap him and say, "Oh, Rod, tell me more about this." I had some follow-up. And at the end of the semester, he tapped me and said, "Hey, have you thought about grad school?" And I said, "Yeah, I thought about it, and I can't wait to be done with school. I'm so not interested."

Chad And he said, "Well, I'll pay for it." And what he meant was he didn't personally pay for it. He [00:27:00] worked at a team and leadership development institute kind of embedded within the Penn State University, and I got an assist-- Basically, I worked 20 hours a week to earn my tuition for grad school there. The reason that I feel shaped by Rod and very grateful to him is he was a master at just, like, handing over the keys.

Chad And so, you know, that course that I took with him, a year later, I was teaching the course. And for the first few time-- for first few classes, he was with me, and after a while, he was like, "You got this. You'll figure it out," and left. Just, like, left me, a, like, just barely graduated student teaching other students.

Chad And that level of autonomy forced me to rise to the occasion. I, I prepped way more. I knew there wasn't a fallback. I couldn't just, like, look to Rod and be like, "What should we do next?" And what he, he taught me the figure, or he further taught me the figure it out gene, which is, "Hey, figure it out. Like, just go figure it out."

Chad And I-- [00:28:00] it's not possible to teach someone that If you don't give them high level of autonomy. And so I see, in organizations I see people very frustrated by folks who are not, they, that seem to not have the figure it out gene. They're like not a high performing employee. And to that I would ask, like, really how much autonomy do they have?

Chad Because if you have to review everything before they publish it, or you have to do everything before they, then it's like, yeah, they can do whatever they want as long as it's approved by you. It's like that's actually a pretty low level of autonomy.

Michael Yeah. It's a great, it's a, so it's a great segue to, this is a question I have for you about mentorship.

Michael So it's a good segue to it. A- as a preface to this question, though, I've got a bunch of questions that came from our interviews with others. So as a, for those that are listening, one of the unique features of this podcast is we have our guests, in this case Chad, nominate a handful of people that we then go out and survey, and we ask questions about Chad so that we can get some more inside information about your, your strengths and gifts and [00:29:00] such.

Michael So I have a number of quotes from these folks, and questions f- beyond the quotes. So one quote is, you know, someone commented on what an impactful and supportive mentor you've been to them, and it seems to me they... You'll see all these, all these quotes as, as a gift that we'll share with you, but really seems like you made a phenomenal difference in their life.

Michael And so my question for you is, when you think about what makes a really impactful mentor, you started to answer this already, what are the three most important qualities that come to mind that you'd suggest mentors embody?

Chad I think one, and in this case I suspect, belief. Like b- belief in that person. And this is, this might sound a little harsh, but I would not just blindly accept and mentor anybody, because if I, if I don't think they got it, if I don't think it's possible that they can go to this next level, I don't want to [00:30:00] mentor them because I don't believe that they'll be able to.

Chad And so I, I suspect the person who shared this quote, I think one of the most transformational things was having somebody that she looked up to, that was kind of further along in a business context than she was, that she looked up to look at her and say, "You totally, like this is ab- you could totally do this."

Chad So belief, number one.

Chad Number two is probably r- related to that. It... I don't know if this is a quality of a mentor, but these are a little bit more like actions that, or what's coming to mind is a little bit more like things that I would Yeah, I feel like they're actionable things that a mentor could do to be a good mentor. Is that acceptable?

Michael Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah,

Chad yeah. Okay. Yes,

Michael continue. So,

Chad phew. I would... Anybody that I've, mentored, I have an arrangement that, at the end of our call, we come up together, and in the beginning I [00:31:00] kind of assign some self-work. My late co-founder and co-author, Will Wise, called it self-work, 'cause he had a student once that he assigned homework to the student and the, and the student was like, "Will, this isn't homework, man.

Chad This is self-work. Working on myself." And, and Will was like, "You know what? You're right. All right. This is self-work now." So at the end of any talk, we would either come up together with self-work or I would kind of assign some self-work, and I would put out to, you know, if you're gonna work with me as on a one-to-one basis, it's, A, not gonna be easy at all.

Chad like I'm not gonna make this... This isn't gonna be like a bunch of nice, relaxing conversations. Like I'm gonna challenge you and push you 'cause we're trying to go to the next level. And the way it works is we don't schedule every two weeks, 'cause that would allow you to just do whatever you want every two weeks.

Chad At the end of our calls, we come up with self-work and we don't schedule another call until that's done. And so in this context, like you have... Yeah. So in other words, I guess what I'm laying out there is the second [00:32:00] piece, cre- raising the bar to some level of rigor. Like believe in someone and then raise the bar so they're like, "No, you can reach this, and I expect that you will reach this."

Chad So expectation, if you want to boil that down to a word. And the third one, what it... It's coming out for me right now. I don't think this is connected to, or I don't think it's... Maybe it's a second cousin of belief, but care for that person. I met a guy once at some random pub years and years ago, and I was just on my way to go to the bathroom.

Chad We had a quick little chat, and when I came back I said hi by name. And he's like, "Dude, how do you remember people's names?" And and he goes, "Actually, no, I know." And he was a, he was a con- he was a contractor, construction contractor. And he told this story about this multi multimillionaire whose house he was putting an addition on.

Chad So there's 30 contractors all around this property, and this guy, the owner of the, the property, would walk out and say [00:33:00] hello and thank you by name to every single person. And this guy Greg stopped him at one point and was like, "Dude, how do you remember people's names? I can't remember people's names at all."

Chad And Greg looks at, or the, the, Dominic, the multi multimillionaire, looks at him and says, "You know why you don't re- remember people's names? 'Cause you don't care Very confronting. I think sometimes you're just like, thinking about yourself, and so you forget to actually take in someone's name and remember it.

Chad But to be a really good mentor, obviously you gotta remember somebody's name, but you actually have to care about them enough to hear what they say, to be invested, to like when my head hits the pillow, you know, I usually mentor one or two people max at a time, and when my head hits the pillow, I'm like thinking about that person.

Chad And like when I am reading s- through a bunch of books at Barnes & Noble and I like, something catches my eye, I like sending a picture to this person, because I care about them.

Michael Yeah. Really good. Really good. So belief, [00:34:00] self-work, and care would be the three? Yeah. So good. The, you know, part of my interest in that question is it's such a common question that we hear from clients more, more so in the context of how do we as an organization create a mentoring program, which in my experience working with a lot of companies, they often fail.

Michael And I think they often fail because of, you know, these, these three that you just put in are wonderful pillars that, oftentimes aren't instituted. Midroll

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Michael on that same thread of building deep connection, there's another quote I'm gonna read from feedback we got from those that we surveyed about you.

Michael It's really good. And then I, and I'll follow with a question. So the quote says, "I think people see the toolkits, the summits, and the warmth and assume it came naturally. What they may not fully appreciate is how hard it is to take something that universal and that intangible and turn it into something people will pay to learn."

Michael And, and I think the reference of intan- tangibility is like connection and facilitation and, you know, building relationships, right? The, the question I'm curious about this is like I think you've done a really good job in being like a movement maker And I think that this is an aspiration for a lot of leaders.

Michael You know, and they, they may not phrase it that way, but right, but they, they want to create, you know, [00:36:00] followership and movements and cultures of, you know, d- dynamic leaning in. And so for those leaders that want to create a sense of, you know, sense of culture like this and a sense of like, you know, people really leaning in, what skills or mindsets or ways of being or practical approaches have helped you build buy-in and influence people toward this culture that you've created?

Chad Yeah. What a... Yeah, I'm so curious who shared that. Is that anonymous?

Michael Yeah. You'll, you'll see it. You'll, you'll see all of these- Oh, I'll see

Chad it?

Michael Yeah. Okay, okay.

Chad You'll see

Michael it. Yeah, yeah, that's- And I should, I should mention that. And, and you-- all of the feedback we get, and the folks that are sharing it know this too, it all goes to you as a gift.

Michael So you'll essentially be flooded with all this love from, from people that, that care about you. I'm excited to give that to you.

Chad Oh, so cool. What a, what a lovely unique treat. I'm reminded right now of, 'cause every movement eventually started as not a movement. Like, started as something [00:37:00] almost embarrassingly small.

Chad So I think when I, r- finished grad school and finished teaching this team leadership development course and I was working at another job, and when I ended that series, I was like, "All right. I'm gonna start my thing." And it was about as vague as a thing. In my mind, I was going to-- It was-- My wife and I took three months off and did a big road trip around the US, and I was like, "I'll use this like, we'll book like a little speaking tour or something.

Chad I'll like, in each city, like I'll try to f- get, dig up a speaking gig," not expecting even them to be paid, just like garner something. And that, like, really h- worked out in a half-baked way to the max. But I, I got a speaking gig in Seattle at this event, and I set up like a booth, and this was early, early days.

Chad I had, I had created the original set of We! Connect cards, like these question cards, and they were on a table with a bunch of information. And I think at that time, the tagline of the, the company was like, "Connecting people to people and [00:38:00] people to ideas." Like, literally as, as general or vague as you could possibly get.

Chad And this guy, it was like a veterans conference, and this, this vet walked up to me, and he looked at the table, and he looked all around, and he goes, "What is this, some sort of like millennial bullshit?" Literally, verbatim. I'm like standing behind him, I'm like, "Oh." So you see, so you're, you see the, like the toolkits and the summits and this like the audience and the s- success now, but like it did not start that way, at, at all.

Chad And so part of the movement building is don't, do not wait for clarity before you move forward. W- one of Matt Church's fa- my, my favorite quotes from Matt Church is, "Action precedes clarity." Like every action you take is basically a rapid prototype that teaches you what worked and what didn't, and if you take enough actions, you will refine that prototype so much that it'll be worthy of building a movement around.

Chad It'll be worthy of following. And so [00:39:00] yeah, you sitting around trying to get really clear on what the vision statement is and the exact language is like, what I've done is always build as transparently as possible in public. And so it's like, "Hey everybody, I'm building a card deck. here are the questions laid out.

Chad Can you go in and, and vote on the ones that stink? Like tell me all the questions that you're like, 'Ugh, I don't want to answer that.'" And I kept doing that until people didn't have that much to click on. And so now I know the questions that are in this box are really good 'cause everyone's gonna actually want to answer them, and want to hear the answers to them.

Chad And so yeah, so that is connected with transparency. So one or, or two Hyper transparency. The, I had a, a pretty failed launch of something at, at one point. And, or I, I should say I collaborated with somebody that was very controversial and, I got literally 200 emails in my inbox afterward of people being like, "I can't believe that," complaining, blah, blah, [00:40:00] blah, blah, blah, blah.

Chad And it was like, wow. It was like the list of angry people was long. I sent a, a recorded video and sent basically an a- not an apology, but an acknowledgement of this. And, it was a very vulnerable video. In no way did I put down this other person that I collaborated with. in fact, I was like, "Hey, when I'm in somebody else's house collaborating with them, if somebody, if I invited, somebody invited me to their house, if they asked me to take my shoes off, I take my shoes off."

Chad Right? I'm like in somebody else's house and so I'm, I'm being in their house. That vulnerability, that like transparency around that whole interaction and that acknowledgement led to like several new clients 'cause they were just so struck by how beautifully honest and transparent that was. And so i- in a weird note, and really tangibly in the business, I can easily track about $100,000 of revenue to an apology email that I sent.

Chad And so being willing to acknowledge [00:41:00] when you screwed up, and to do that as publicly as, you can or as you want, I think is part of building a movement 'cause you're not gonna get it all right going forward. but as long as you let people know that you're learning from that, I think you're moving people with you.

Chad Yeah.

Michael Yeah. Makes sense. Ma- well, and I, and I also hear like the, the willing- like the willingness to fail, the willingness to take risks, the willingness to receive uncomfortable feedback. Like these are all... Hopefully I'm not putting words in your mouth, like these are all really good, good pillars. it's interesting, someone else made a great quote about you in, kind of in this same spirit I think, and the quote was, "Chad has unshakable self-belief." I

Chad think that was like a really kind way. It sounds like how my wife would describe, the fact that I'm delusional.

Michael Well, I mean, I, I think- Unshakeable ... I, Hmm.

Chad Say

Michael it, sorry, say it again.

Chad No, no, I, no, I, I think it's... I'm being playful. I'm shirking off. I should just receive this compliment, 'cause it's a very [00:42:00] lovely compliment.

Chad But it, it is a bit required to build a movement. I, I do feel like I need to skirt that compliment slightly and say like, "No, it is totally shakable," and I have put things in place to not be shaken by the many critics that exist in the world. Like, if you choose to just, like, be a custodian at a high school, nobody's gonna have anything to say about what you do on a day-to-day basis.

Chad But as soon as you plant a flag and start a movement and start putting yourself out there, whole heaps of people, critics, will have things to say. And so, you know, I have very practical things that lead to that unshakable belief. Like, there's a sticky note on my wall to my right that is titled Angry People, and anytime somebody reaches out and they're, like, dissatisfied with whatever, I write their name down and then keep going.

Chad I just, like, acknowledge, yeah, I hear you, I got it, and no matter what I do, no matter what I say, [00:43:00] there will a- no matter what you say and no matter what you do, there will always be, quote, "angry people."

Michael Right. Right. Well, and you're, you're kind of answering this question already, but I, you know, what I, I hear from leaders a lot, that this is a characteristic that they want to build.

Michael And they might not call it that, but just the, the confidence, the certainty, the, you know, will- willingness to kind of stand up and, you know, march forward with a- an idea, a movement, et cetera. So in addition to what you said, is there anything else that you'd recommend to leaders wanting to build that characteristic?

Michael Any other strategies or tactics you'd say, "Do this"?

Chad Yeah. I think maybe go back to the thinking chair and sit and do nothing for as long as possible until you have something that you feel like you have enough conviction around, that regardless of what friction or obstacles you come up against, you're gonna push forward anyway because that aim or mission is so, so...

Chad For me, like you asked me about Patch Adams. Like, I am, after going down the [00:44:00] deep rabbit hole of studying, you know, what does, what impact does connection and relatedness have on us as people in the workplace for our longevity and health and wellness, all of these aspects, and it's like I am beyond a shadow of a doubt convinced that much of our world is continuing to move us toward further isolation.

Chad But one of the most important things to maintain and prioritize is our connection with each other. And so even if I can ask Claude or ChatGPT my parenting question, I think I should inefficiently call my dad and ask him what he might do because it's gonna lead to connection and relationship. It's not like Will used to say efficiency is the enemy of connection, and yet our world is so optimized around being more efficient The irony, Will died before he could finish that sentence, I think,because I, I would add to the sentence.

Chad So yes, efficiency is the enemy of connection, [00:45:00] but when you are connected, it is incredibly efficient. So you think about, like, George Clooney in Ocean's 11 when he, or in Ocean's 12 when he gets the team back together to pull off a heist. They don't need to, like, do a meet and greet to figure out who each other are.

Chad They're like, "Hey, let's just do what we did in Panama." And then they're like, boom, back to it. And that efficiency created by connection before content. But leaders r- most, very often put connection in the deprioritized category of we don't have time for that. We have, we have a lot of important work to get to.

Chad And I'm like, yeah, and if you're properly connected, the amount of communication shortcuts and trust that will speed up everything else is, like, it's worth 10 minutes at the beginning of a meeting to ask someone and ask the group, "What is one thing life is teaching you right now?" Or, like, something that you normally would not start a meeting with, right?

Michael Absolutely. Absolutely. Well, I know we're almost out of time, and I, I've got a ton more questions I skipped, so maybe we can do a round two. But in, in our last few minutes, [00:46:00] there's like, there's like three or four rapid-fire questions I want to give you. But before we get there, is there a question that you were hoping I would ask that I didn't?

Michael Or anything else you want to talk about that we didn't get to before we kind of wrap with a couple rapid-fire questions?

Chad My answer to that is actually no, and then the reason I'm able to answer that with conviction is I've had a smile on my face this entire conversation. You know, like, you're just...

Chad You're,I want to offer to you that you have an amazing amount of expertise, and to be in the role of podcast host, you're putting to work one of your most beautiful gifts on the planet, which is the ability to deeply, deeply listen and hear someone else's story and what they have to share, and so I'm, I'm grateful.

Chad I'm just saying thank you for that. There's a reason that I had a smile on my face, and it was very much due to you.

Michael Oh, brother, well, I'm, I'm grateful for you, too. And, thank you for the stories and the lessons and, and all that you shared, and I am truly excited [00:47:00] to do another round 'cause there's a lot I didn't get to.

Michael But, in, in a, in like a rapid-fire sense here in our last couple minutes, you know, this, this podcast is all about how to, how might leaders influence, you know, the behavior of those that they're leading. I think this is actually the meta question that a lot of leaders are asking about their people particularly.

Michael Do you have a best tip or immediate thought that comes to mind if you're to say, "Influence your people this way," what comes to mind?

Chad If you want someone to come to a party, they won't know to come to the party unless you invite them. And so if you want to be a person of influence, maybe just let that go and be a person of invitation.

Chad And not all invitations are created equal, right? If I, if you text someone, "Wanna hang out?" question mark, that's a very different invitation than a wedding invitation that's, like, sealed in an envelope, and there's a pre-stamped RSVP card, and it was thoughtfully designed, and there's... Right? And so if you [00:48:00] get better at inviting people, if you, if you get better at crafting compelling invitations, you will all of a sudden find out that people want to say yes more.

Chad And, and a compelling invitation takes a lot of empathy to know, like, what do people actually want? What kind of p- party do people want to show up to? Right? If you're, if you're inviting 20 introverts to a party, introverted coding developer engineers to a work party at a tech company, like, consider having there not be an open, unstructured social happy hour, 'cause this is, like, an introvert's nightmare, to, like, figure out what to do with themselves at a, an open, unstructured thing like that.

Chad And so, like, give it a defined purpose. Get... Create an excuse for gathering. This isn't a lightning round. I'm gonna go back to lightning round. Hit me. Number two.

Michael No, that's good. Just, just a quick, quick call-out. Yeah. I think you, I think you may be onto branding something here. The, the [00:49:00] branded language for that.

Michael This may already exist, but conscious invitation is what, is what comes to mind as I'm hearing you unpack, like, the nuance of inviting, that there's a lot more to it, which I, I appreciate the nuance of that.

Chad Conscious invitation and in the spirit of, like, making... For me, the filter I filter everything through is, like, just making it dumb easy, like, super simple.

Chad Hmm. Yeah. And so it's like, just make your invitations better, dude.

Michael Yeah,

Chad yeah. it's like, yeah, just- ... like, if you, if you s- send someone a calendar invite and they're, and they go like, "Ugh, I gotta go to this thing"-

Michael Right ...

Chad figure out how to make them not go, "Ugh."

Michael Yeah. It's

Chad like, that's it.

Michael Love it. Yeah.

Chad Like, if someone's dreading a one-on-one-

Michael Yeah

Chad like, change it to a walk and talk in the park only on a sunny day.

Michael Yeah.

Chad Yeah, yeah. And all of a sudden, your invitation's much more interesting and the conversation's probably gonna be better too.

Michael Yeah, man. Well, one of the things I appreciate about you, and I've seen you do this for so many years, is the translation of i- into simplicity.

Michael Like, you do that such, such, so [00:50:00] well and so thank you for that reminder. It's really good. We ask this question to all the guests. What question should we ask the next guest? Anything about leadership comes to mind.

Chad One of my favorite questions, which anybody can steal and use at just about any time, which is, what is one thing life is teaching you about leadership?

Chad What is one thing life is teaching you about leadership? I would add right now to the end of that, too.

Michael Yeah. Good. I'm, I'm writing it down. Super good. All right, my friend. Well, anything you want to share about Connector Summit, where to find you, social media, your You- your YouTube channel? You know, one of the-- Just a quick call-out to that.

Michael Like, one of the reasons I wanted to make this, this interview a little bit more personal is because you have so much great content that's already available online, so, you know, I tried to steer it just to get to know you a little bit deeper, because you have so many free resources out there. I didn't want to kind of, like, repeat stuff that's already [00:51:00] so available for folks.

Michael But, but people should know, you should go to Chad's YouTube channel 'cause it's packed full of good tactical resources. But anything else you want to mention about where to find you, how to get in touch with you?

Chad Well, I appreciate the, that call. This, this interview felt like that. It felt like a fun and personal unpacking, which I typically don't do when I'm teaching something.

Chad So felt unique and felt special, and I'm glad that you were the one to ask me all those questions. So I would just say that recently, as my final invitation, if you will, recently I got clear that the people who I could sit down and have coffee with for eight hours are people who are in the professional role of, like, they lead groups.

Chad So as a pr- a- and a-- this isn't necessarily just, like, a manager who, like, has a meeting every once in a while. But I mean, like, they facilitate group processes. They are gathering people at an event, a workshop, a community engagement initiative, right? I love hanging out with those people. And [00:52:00] so because I love hanging out with those people, I-- every December, I started hosting this event called the Connector Summit, and, it is a place, it is a r- one of the few rooms designed only for people who usually are the ones who design the rooms And so this wa- this is the, the room that's designed just for folks who lead gatherings, and it's become, like, a really special, gathering.

Chad This year we have the creators and founders of, Liberating Structures kicking off, which is a whole really cool body of work around, like, how do we break out of these really broken, rigid, limiting meeting structures like a managed discussion, a presentation, a way to open discussion or brainstorm. And th- they offer, you know, these 30, 40 additional str- creative structures and formats to break groups up that I think are, are quite transformational from a facilitation concept.

Chad And so, yeah, come to that. You can register your interest online for free. I'm gonna l- I'm gonna give you a URL. Just search [00:53:00] on... Where do people, where do you search, Michael, these days? When you search something, are you searching on Google, ChatGPT? Where are you searching?

Michael it's a cross betw- bet- between the two.

Michael I typically am using ChatGPT or Google, although lately I've been using Google's AI feature as a discussion platform. But it's, it depends on what it is, like how deep I wanna go, but one of the two. Pretty, pretty 50/50.

Chad I have found, I, just this last, I had a family reunion three weeks ago, and I, it was the first time in, like, my real life outside of technical, like, computer land or d- outside of digital life.

Chad First time in real life where I was at a gathering where 9 out of 10 mentions of people, like, looking something up or searching were searching or looking something up on ChatGPT, not Google. And so, like, the verb, "I, I Googled this," is, like, totally disappearing. At least it disappeared for my family reunion in this tiny little context.

Chad But that's [00:54:00] interesting.

Michael Yeah, man. One, one of the things we didn't get to today, which may be next time, is I w- I had some questions about AI as it relates to our profession of leadership development, facilitation, connection. I've... Yes, maybe we could talk more aboutways in which AI is changing all sorts of work, but you and I do a lot of time in, in the facilitation or training role, you know?

Michael And so I'm curious just what are you seeing in general? How do you feel AI is gonna impact the world of training and development or facilitation in the next... Let's, let's keep it, let's keep it in the next, like, three to five years.

Chad The short, very honest answer is like I don't actually know. I-- And here's what I'm currently observing.

Chad What I'm currently observing is there is a re-emphasis and like a reaccreditation of live events, meaning because anything can be created, anything also might be like fake or made up or not credible or not legitimate. And so now we're like almost going back to like caveman times oral [00:55:00] tradition where when a person tells me their experience right now in an organization or in a particular context, I can believe that, right?

Chad I can hold that to be true, and the only way that you, or the best way that you get that, a gulp of that, not just a sip of it online, the best way to get a gulp of that is to get together with somebody in person or virtually, live synchronous gatherings. And so I actually, I'm quite hopeful about, the profession.

Chad I know every profession is like, "Well, AI is not gonna be able to do what I can do." but I don't, I don't think people Want a world that's more isolated and alone. I don't actually think people want that, and so I, I think there will be further pushback from that and more gatherings, and I think we'll see a rise of, like, gatherings that you have to put your cellphone in a sleeve and just be fully present with each other.

Chad Kinda like these no tech detox weekend sorta things. [00:56:00] I think those, even just from a, like, vacation space, I think resorts will market, like, end up r- marketing, like, no tech weeks. Niche resorts. I don't know that it, it'll be the mass because it's, like, all this... All tech and AI, like, it's very addicting. it's very, very luring to just constantly be talking with and consulting Claude on whatever it is you're thinking about or doing that day.

Michael Yeah, totally. Totally agree. Totally agree. I think that is the... It's like the, the pendulum swing naturally will go that, in that direction as an answer to l- to, to like you were saying earlier, all the efficiencies that exist that, you know, combined with the fact that a lot of this, you know, is gonna go in a direction of questionable trust.

Michael You know, getting a video, getting information, getting, you know, getting a... I mean, already we can see videos that you can't discern if they're real or not. And, and so that's, it's gonna call into question all sorts of stuff.

Chad Beyond this, one of the things I've observed is, like, you think [00:57:00] about all the things that the public has lost trust in and the time that it's taken them to lose trust in it.

Chad So at one point, like, big corporations were not demonized and thought of terribly. they were like, "Oh, you know, it's a, a really prideful thing to work at a big company." Now everyone's like, "Ugh, corporate." Right? And so, so that, but that took a long time. And then you have social media where there's like, people really l- loved social media for a while.

Chad It was a really cool and all the thing. It was... And then it, like, s- now most people have a love/hate, maybe leaning toward hate relationship with social media, and that took though, like, a decade or two-ish, decade and a half to get to that place. AI, people already talk about AI really negatively, and we're, like, two or three years in.

Chad So, so I also, like I also don't see that going up to where everyone's like, "Oh, it's, it's like it's the best," utopia thing. I think there's that love/hate [00:58:00] came on so fast, and there's already so much like the dark side is elevated much more quickly with AI. And so that, I don't have anything to say about that other than that's a really interesting thing that trust has disappeared so fast from it.

Michael Yeah. The speed of change, right? So I want to ask one more parenting question related to AI, and, and this, hopefully the, the translation to leadership is obvious in this question. But, you know, you have young kids, as do I, all sorts of uncertain futures related to AI and the g- the job market and just, you know, our, the zeitgeist of culture.

Michael How are you thinking about preparing your kids for such an uncertain future? Are there principles you're applying? Are there ways you're thinking about it? Anything For sure.

Chad One, because we're, this technically is a piece of media, and so I'm, I've become aware, too, like I can't just blame tech companies for making us addicted to our phone.

Chad As somebody who's recorded hundreds of YouTube video, like I've captured or taken or stolen or [00:59:00] gathered, millions of minutes of people's attention on videos that I've produced. And I've tried to record them in a way that would like keep them on the video longer. So as a piece of media, because we're in a piece of media, I like am hesitant to even repeat the story or the narrative that is right now arou- like there is this narrative like the future's uncertain or there's like a, a bit of vibe of doom or something.

Chad And I just like, I think that that is a story. I don't think it is the most useful or even necessarily the most accurate one for us to hang our hat on. And so first I would just like question that story, and how much ... 'Cause it, it's a, it, that story leans very quickly toward victimhood of like the world's gonna happen to me as opposed to like- And so wha- a perspective that a mentor gave me is like, all right, there is a tsunami of change coming with AI, so there are a [01:00:00] couple ways you can attack that.

Chad Either you can, like, grab a surfboard and, like, ride this quick wave. The wave's gonna end at some point, so you can, like, make as much money as you can as possible and, or d- hustle as much as, you know, during this wave, or you can just, like, totally be thrown around by it and whatever at the whims. Or you could be a rock that's sitting somewhere in the ocean, that no matter how big the tsunami is, that rock is gonna be completely unmoved and unfazed.

Chad The tsunami's gonna pass by, and you're still gonna be there. And so for me, I'm standing on the rock that the way that we connect and relate with each other matters just about more th- more than just about everything else. And so AI, no AI, the next thing, the next war, the next, Like, I'm still just gonna be chilling on this rock right here.

Chad And using... And not, like, an- it doesn't mean I'm a, a Luddite with my head in the sand either. I think it's actually important to have rocks that people can, like, come take shelter on. And so I, like, the Connector Summit, I want to be an event where people can be [01:01:00] like, "Oh my gosh, the world is intense. There's a story out there," and I want people to come and, like, have their buckets filled up and feel uplifted and quite positive about what's possible in the world, not, overburdened with all the problems they need to go solve.

Michael Totally. Totally. Yeah. A- absolutely. A- absolutely, and, and definitely the, the, the notion of uncertainty in the AI future, you know, I was certainly not framing it in the context of doom. I love the notion of stability. It reminds me of the, you've probably heard this quote before, Meg Wheatley's quote around, what is it?

Michael "Be, be an island of sanity in a sea of chaos"? You know, that like stable, like here, and what I hear you emphasizing is, you know, the core, the core around connecting to others, you know, building, building relationships. Like these are things that will likely not be disrupted by really anything. Like these are human needs, and so I, I appreciate that.

Chad On the, the parenting note of things, I will say one thing that I'm thinking about in terms of [01:02:00] uncertainty is like I'm not, I don't want to teach my kids to be an employee. because I, I do think that AI is going to replace a lot of employees. and this, this feels like kind of unarguable. Like have, have you ever checked out at Walmart?

Chad Like it's mostly not people. It's mostly robots that are checking, right? And that was a decade ago. So, so like that, so I'm not teaching my kids to be employees. And so even I saw recently somebody sh- a dad talking about how he doesn't give an allowance. That teaches someone to just like collect a paycheck every two weeks.

Chad His kids invoice him when they've completed like a body of work, or like a task. They send him an invoice, and he pays that invoice. and so he's like, they're operating in a service business as opposed to... And so I, I think that, I think if you have an entrepreneurial mindset, regardless of whether you're an entrepreneur, if you have an entrepreneurial mindset of like, "I can create something from nothing," for me, that's an entrepreneurial mindset.

Chad I can create something from nothing. I think i- if [01:03:00] my kids can believe that's true, they'll have very bright futures regardless of what's happening in the federal government, the world or anything else.

Michael Yeah. Yeah. And yeah, I love that. And, you know, again, just to, to apply it to leadership, like that lesson seems so, just juicy for, for all of us, the ability to create something from nothing. End Roll

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Chad abracadabra, you know, this, this, this roughly translates, abracadabra loosely translates to, "I will create as I speak." And so I think for a leader, like the words that we utter and choose very much shape futures. The questions we... I, I kind of learned that the questions we ask are edit buttons to the future.

Chad Like I- you asked me [01:05:00] questions. They changed the words that came out of my mouth, and we created, we co-created a new future because of that. I also said things today that I hadn't thought of before that I will continue to ponder and tweak and think about and do something with outside of here. And so in, in, you know, the Carl Jung quote that, I think it's Carl Jung, that once-

Michael Or like a conversation is like a chemical reaction. Once two people come together and have a conversation, no, no self can actually survive that. You are changed. You are different, by that dialogue in some way. Anyway, dude, we could chat for a, a thousand hours, so we should probably wrap it.

Michael Well, this has been pretty

Chad wild End the party while it's still fun.

Michael I'm sure we'll do another one. And, yeah, thank you. Thank you so much for your wisdom and your kindness and your friendship. And, for those that are listening to this episode, maybe the, maybe the invite is if you know a leader with their, with their organization, I would encourage you to share this with them because Chad shared a lot of tactical and strategic and [01:06:00] philosophical goodies with us today.

Michael So, Chad, thank you so much, man. It's great to see you. And, we'll see, we'll see you down the road soon now.

Chad Hasta luego. All

Michael right. Take care, everybody.