Becoming the Man You Needed When You Were Younger with Will Knecht

[00:00:00] Hector: Fellas, what's going on? I hope this episode finds you well. And as always, I hope that this episode leaves you better than when it found you. Today's episode is with Mr. Will Connect, and he is someone who is out there helping guys and the community. the end of the episode, you know, the theme that I came away from as we just wrapped this conversation was be yourself, King, be yourself.

[00:00:55] Hector: That is all that we can do. And, and there are some bumps and bruises and some twists and turns along the way and how we get there, but, um, you know, it is, is all we can do. So Will he has a newsletter and writes for men it's really just, he was meant for this show. So anyways, I think you guys will enjoy it.

[00:01:18] Hector: Let's get into today's episode with Mr. Will Connect.

[00:01:22] Hector: Well, welcome to the modern masculinity podcast.

[00:01:25] Hector: Thank you for being here today.

[00:01:26] Will: Great to be with you, Hector. Privilege.

[00:01:28] Hector: One thing that we sort of, maybe perhaps it's a rite of passage for our guests, because, the listeners for sure want to hear about your work and what you've been doing and all that sort of stuff. But even, amidst all that, take us into your world. I know you are, a man, a business owner, perhaps a partner, a father, you know, a brother, like all these roles that we wear as, you know, these, responsibilities that we carry as men.

[00:01:48] Hector: What sort of things do you still find yourself today working and navigating? through, you know, as a man,

[00:01:55] Will: Yeah. So, so my passion is, teaching young guys, you know, I'm 58. So old enough to be most of the guys who are watching us and listening to us, their father. I actually have a son who will be 31 in a week and, he and his wife have, my first granddaughter as well. So I know this demographic really well.

[00:02:11] Will: And really what, floats my boat is just sitting down talking to guys and,

[00:02:15] Hector: I want to know though, cause the guys are saying, they're saying like, yeah, that's great, but the work is not done or are you sitting on the mountaintop going, I'm grandpa, everything's figured out. Come sit on grandpa's lap because I've got it all figured out. And I probably know the answer, I'm curious, you know, whether that's fake, if there are certain. And I'm just throwing stuff out there, whether it's security issues about being a grandpa or, you know, what that's going to like, or, you know, the word plague is, is the word that came into my mind, but that's not the right word. Like even still today, what are, what sort of stuff are you going like

[00:02:49] Will: Yeah, no doubt. So, you know, even at 58, man, I still struggle with imposter syndrome. I still compare myself to other guys and, you know, don't measure up. You know, I struggle, financially, you know, just making sure that my, success criteria is not just the financial piece of life or the status, but, true success and understanding what true success really is.

[00:03:11] Will: as I look at my kids and I have three kids and two stepkids, you know, being a dad and just feeling inadequate to be a dad, I mean, it's so hard to be a dad and, and I know how I looked up to my dad and now I'm that guy. And just, you know, struggling day to day to be, the man that my kids need me to be.

[00:03:29] Will: it's really interesting. I'm 58, but the issues that I'm facing, maybe I've, learned some things along the way, but they're still the same when I was in my twenties and my thirties and my forties that I just, keep repeating and learning and growing.

[00:03:41] Hector: Well, what's interesting, you know, big theme that we talked about on this show is that a lot of guys are age don't have the playbook for. X, whether that's being a dad today or being a husband today or being, you know, whatever. And we sort of, at least I sort of think of it as like, Oh, it's a millennial curse that we have I think guys at any age, you know, grandpas, there's no, there's no playbook for being the best grandpa today because ideal grandpa or their roles and responsibilities have sort of morphed and evolved over the time. And so just to be what your grandpa was your grandkids probably not going to measure up to your or perhaps whomever's standards, you know, you're, you're measuring them against.

[00:04:24] Will: Sure. that's so true. I mean, especially in our culture today, manhood in general is being challenged. What is manhood? Nobody can define manhood. You know, some look at it as, you know, the dominant, toxic masculinity that's pushed out there. But then there are these guys that are so passive and feminine in their masculinity that they don't know what the heck they're doing either.

[00:04:45] Will: this whole topic of masculinity is challenged so much. When I was growing up, when I was even your age, Hector, I knew what a man was and I knew what was expected of a man. A provider, a protector, right? today, that role is challenged and, is amazing to evolve through that.

[00:05:04] Will: Keeping true to my core, because I still believe a man is a man, the roles don't change, but how we adapt to the, the reality of culture has changed, I don't want to be a guy who's so timid walking through stuff that I, you know, I feel like I'm walking on eggshells, you know, am I going to be challenged, as, you know, who I am as a man and say, hey, you're, you know, you're out of bounds, I want to love appropriately and I, think it starts with that.

[00:05:29] Will: If I'm doing stuff out of love, that's the foundation of everything I want to be doing as a man, whether it be my wife, whether it be my kids, whether it be my colleagues at work, my employees at work, I want them to know that I love them. And in that, I know that I'm going to make mistakes, but I would ask that they have the same grace for me in those mistakes that I hopefully have for them.

[00:05:50] Will: you know, when they make a few mistakes as well. But yeah, manhood today, it is being challenged at every level and is being

[00:05:57] Will: redefined almost on a weekly, monthly basis.

[00:06:01] Hector: Yeah. You talked about these two poles we've talked about this on the show a lot in terms

[00:06:04] Hector: of, you know, toxic on one side and sort of this pass on the other. And the only word that I've. come to this, integrated sense of masculinity it seems that there's a keeping of the, providership and the protecting also an evolution and sort of a, an adding on and a layering on of.

[00:06:20] Hector: emotional awareness and, emotional capacity and all these other new skills necessary is again, the word that's coming up, but I don't know that I would say necessary because guys could do without him, but I don't know if they'll be successful, fulfilled, that life's going

[00:06:38] Will: Yeah, no, that's, that's such a great point. So like when I was growing up, I yearned for my dad's acceptance. And my dad was of a generation. He never told me he loved me. He never hugged me. That just wasn't him. And so, you know, for so long in my life, I was striving to earn my dad's, approval, his acceptance, you know, him knighting me as, Hey, you're a man.

[00:07:01] Will: I'm proud of you. And honestly, Hector, it wasn't until his deathbed, he died almost 21 years ago. And he was in a hospice care and I was by his bedside. You know, all of us as a family were by his bedside those last few days. And in tears, I said something to my dad. I said, dad, I don't know if I ever lived up to what you expected of me, but I want you to know how much I love you and respect you.

[00:07:26] Will: And I, you know, I just pray that I'm, half the man that you are. And for the first time on his deathbed, I was 37 years old. My dad said, I'm proud of you, son. You wear my name well, because my name is Frank Wilson connect the fourth. So I come from a long line of dads and each one of my, family line has been extremely successful people, but.

[00:07:47] Will: I needed to hear that from my dad, that he was proud of me as a man. and that was so fundamental. So, to your point, the evolution of me as a dad, I bet you my kids are sick of me saying, telling them how much I love them and how proud of, them I am. I make it a point, not just offhanded so it just sounds, you know, frivolous, but I make it a point to say I'm proud of the person you are.

[00:08:12] Will: I'm not just proud of what you do or what you accomplish. I'm proud of you as a person and you have value as a person. And, I am proud to be your dad. I love you, and to your point, that's the evolution. My dad's generation, not so much guys, my age. this is a common thread.

[00:08:30] Will: of men just yearning for their dad's acceptance they never got because it wasn't that generation and I'm hoping to change that in my own family.

[00:08:38] Hector: Yeah, that's interesting. I wonder what the, counterbalance of that is, because I think my dad's probably sort of dealt with, that sort of wound that you, you you just talked about. I don't know that I ever, I don't know what that interaction is like. Because when I was a teenager, I remember having this, very inaccurate, View and perspective that my dad was like, dumb or that he was like, inadequate or incapable.

[00:09:02] Hector: And when I look at it, it was probably the way that my mom talked about him. And, she sort of leaned on me she's great. And when I talk about how amazing of a mom and a great mom she is. And also. I was sort of the peacemaker in the house and I was sort of the, you know, the mediator and, mom found a way to, you know, I was connected more with her.

[00:09:20] Hector: And so you take their viewpoint and you started adopting their belief system. I guess I say that because like there was this weird spite or, like the Oedipus sort of thing going on where I've got to like best my dad or he's, you know, I'm too good for him.

[00:09:36] Hector: And it was a really, it's actually really fucking weird, you know, like I, I remember telling my dad, maybe a number of months ago, I was like, Hey, I never recognized like what you were actually doing and what you were actually providing. And I, you know, it, dawned on me because. Some of his friends would always say like dude, your dad is so amazing.

[00:09:55] Hector: Like your dad is such a good guy he's so whatever and I'm like really like you think that and it was a Real cognitive dissonance and when I noticed that I started to like, That was a big old aha for me that way to me. This is not the complete Picture. And also it was right around the time where I was having kids and, you know, marriage was falling apart and like all these sorts of things.

[00:10:16] Hector: So you start to be aware of the things that, you just didn't have experience or context for before.

[00:10:23] Will: hard being a dad. I mean, it is really hard being a dad. And again, three of my kids are adults and I'm still a dad and I still hurt when they hurt and you know. get excited when, they do as well. And I think, as we look at our dads, again, I still think about my dad all the time and looking back at the impact that he had on my life, I remember the good stuff more than I remember the bad stuff and, you know, it's an interesting perspective to have now that I am a dad, because when I was a teenager, my parents didn't know a thing.

[00:10:53] Will: Right. I was the smartest guy around. And, they didn't know anything. And, I can remember one time I was asked that we were at a, family event and I was asked by someone, Hey, who's the, who is the man you respect the most? I think everybody was expecting me to say my dad, cause my dad was wildly successful in all areas of life.

[00:11:10] Will: And I said, one of his friends, and I can remember looking at my dad in that moment, and it was just like, I crushed his heart. I'm sure by saying that. think it's just, it's hard being a dad and it's just fact that I have had to deal with is I've never been a perfect dad. You know, I'm not a perfect dad.

[00:11:30] Will: I make a lot of mistakes as a dad, but I'm not afraid to tell my kids, Hey, I messed up there. screwed up and, please forgive me. I can remember one time my son, who's 31, is the antithesis of me, right? He is so different than I am. He's artistic, creative. he's a director, very successful commercial director, travels the world.

[00:11:52] Will: But I wanted him to be like me, blue button down, have his planner out, make his plan for the day. And it just wasn't him. One time he was in the eighth grade. Now never forget it. We were in our living room and the two of us almost got into a fist fight. Because he wouldn't do what I asked him to do. that was a changing moment for me.

[00:12:12] Will: I stepped back and say, what is happening here? and I don't know what, what it was, but the light switch went off that my son's different than me. And that's a beautiful thing. And so, you know, as we got through that process, seeing my son for who he was. The unique guy he was and just, coming alongside him, encouraging him in that uniqueness, was, a big moment for

[00:12:35] Will: me. And as looking back, it's something I always wanted from

[00:12:39] Will: my dad.

[00:12:40] Hector: know, I do bring that up. I think that's an interesting thing because it was when I think about the core of what I was feeling, there was some resentment and I think that one thing that was just parents are all products of the generations before them. So it's like they're doing the best that they can with what they have.

[00:12:56] Hector: and there are trends and also, you know, certain patterns that I think are helpful to be aware of and one of the things that I think for that generation, right? Millennials, parents, probably your like your generation parents, you probably did maybe a better job than most, but there was a lot of, living vicariously through their kids, you know, the kids were made in my image and thus, you know, they need to look like me and dress like me and play the sports and do the things that I, was meant to do when I was a kid and they didn't have those opportunities to play little league and they didn't have the opportunities to do whatever.

[00:13:30] Hector: And so it's, you should only be so blessed. To have this opportunity to do all these activities and and I realized I looked up, I wasn't able to make my own choices really until I was 22 or 23 and done with college. You know, like when I actually think about what were some of the first choices that I was making for me and not for anybody else, and it took me another 10 years to really start making decisions that were only for me and not for anybody else, and that was a painful and sort of twiddle experience.

[00:13:56] Hector: and perhaps we need to go through those sort of progressions, you know, and at some point we need to have, you know, the fist fight with our dad, whether physically or metaphorically to sort of break away from that, you know, and be willing to, break away, the same way that sort of Oedipus, Killed his, father, right?

[00:14:13] Hector: I don't think we need to do it, actually doing that. But there's a metaphorical sort of thing that I think, you know, young men have to go through when they, become a man.

[00:14:21] Will: Think about the guys though, that are listening to us right now, who many are young dads, right? If, if I, at your age could have had the recollect, the understanding that you just shared and was able to live that through my kids or give that to my kids, allowing them at an early age to become the person they've uniquely been created to be rather than them feeling like they have to be like me.

[00:14:46] Will: Or, you know, walking in my steps and doing, young dads can understand what you just said and hand that off to the next generation, your kid's age, my grandkids age, that era will be a different and just an edified group because what you just said is critical. We need to give our kids wings.

[00:15:06] Will: You know, boundaries as well, but wings to become who they are. And when I learned that with my eighth grade son, his life took a different trajectory. My son, left college after his sophomore year. I never would have thought be excited about my kid leaving college and never graduating from college.

[00:15:23] Will: He's so wildly successful in his world today. Fantastic decision for him. And so I think the wisdom of what you just said as dads, as young dads, taking that, looking at, their children, looking at your children and saying, Hey, each of you is unique. My job is to help you become the unique version of yourself that you've been created to be.

[00:15:44] Will: There it is right there. You, you've just given a huge nugget of

[00:15:47] Will: wisdom. Mm-hmm

[00:15:48] Hector: Yeah. And a big challenge that I'm sort of going through right now is that The schools don't seem to recognize that, or at least, you know, public, I can only speak for a public school and the challenge is that we move to what is, you know, one of the, the best school systems in the nation, quote, unquote, and unfortunately, I'm only realizing now that that.

[00:16:09] Hector: only means that they're good at getting kids to fit through the box that's a school system that is very good at at sort of forcing all the round pegs into the square holes, they're really good at shoving that through or doing something to sort of get it because my kid is brilliant, you know, in his own regard, you know, he's doing, he's like, dad is, 12 times 10, you know, 100, he's, he's doing multiplication and he's in first, you know, just number things that I would have only dreamt of doing.

[00:16:36] Hector: Yeah. And the challenge was, is that the teacher, the parent teacher conference, that his mom went to all that they were saying was, Hey, if he doesn't turn things around, he's going to have to be held back. And it's like, what, you're asking a fish to climb up a tree and you're not realizing that the fish can swim all, you know, so we're in the midst of trying to find a lake that my kid can go and swim it.

[00:16:56] Hector: But that's, I think another challenge is that, okay. Once sort of men wake up to their freedom to release themselves from those decisions that, you know, from what other people would do now, they sort of have to, they kind of have to stand in the fire and, and, you know, the kids would say, like stand on business and be willing to essentially buck the system, right.

[00:17:17] Hector: Whether it literally or figuratively. And I don't know that my, my generation of millennials were so good at just following the rules. They were so good at following the script and the program because it was, it was laid out for us from the very beginning. You go to school, get good grades, you get a good job, you get the kids, the marriage.

[00:17:33] Hector: It's like, yeah, here is the American dream. Check these boxes and

[00:17:36] Will: Yeah.

[00:17:36] Will: if you don't, something's wrong with you. Yeah,

[00:17:38] Hector: Yeah, if you veer off from it, Lord help you because you're a degenerate

[00:17:43] Hector: ever loser or you know, insert whatever.

[00:17:46] Will: Yeah, when my son, and his mom and I decided that it was the best, interest of him to drop out of college, I was fearful to tell my friends and my family, stop. This is Jared. This is who he is created to be. But I think another great point that you just raised about, you know, the public school system, it is so hard.

[00:18:05] Will: I've got great friends who are teachers. It is so hard in the public school system today. But as dads, you know, as men, whether you have kids, but you can influence kids. Our job is the educator by way, the way we carry ourselves, the way, you know, your son who is brilliant, but maybe I've got a 12 year old son, the exact same way the kid is next level smart.

[00:18:28] Will: He, you know, he'll be a nuclear scientist doing something, but school's not his, vibe. He, he struggles in school, you know, his mom and I encourage who he is and teach him along the way the truth of life because we're his real educators, you know, and that's the reality.

[00:18:46] Will: His dad, his mom, and me as his stepdad, the three of us are his educators. and to really build into their lives to take the time. My dad worked and worked and worked and worked and worked, right? you know, he'd come to my basketball games, you know, and do things like that. But the investment was all my mom.

[00:19:04] Will: To your point earlier, men today are recognizing that our investment in our kids or the investment in other people is worth it and important. And, and I love what you said. We are the most important teachers for our kids. They're watching us. They're listening to us.

[00:19:20] Will: they will imitate us up to a point. And again, I want to be the type of dad and granddad that, you know, understands that role. and really, you know, is very

[00:19:30] Will: intentional. As a teacher of my kids,

[00:19:33] Hector: yeah, one of the challenges I think was even that the teachers were saying they're like. I don't really agree with this, but this is what I have to say, because we have these certain benchmarks and we have so and so, whatever. And so it was just a, to affirm your point, it was a reminder that we can't outsource. Although they have teachers, we, like you said, we, we can't outsource the main educator role. we sort of have to be that.

[00:19:58] Will: you know, I don't remember what I learned in first grade or fifth grade or even in college. I mean, I, you know, I, graduated college. I can't tell you what I learned in economics, you know, to the nth degree. But I can tell you what I learned in watching people. I learned pride of this country from my parents.

[00:20:14] Will: My parents loved America. And I love this country as a result of watching them and how they gave, back and invested in the lives of other people. You know, that was ingrained in me. So it's these lessons that might not be book smart lessons, but the example we leave our kids, those are the teachable moments.

[00:20:33] Will: You know, how do we handle a conflict with another individual? You know, how do we handle conflict with our kids? we willing to say, I'm sorry, forgive me. I was wrong. Boy, that's hard for a dad to say to a kid. But when I felt comfortable doing that with my kids and that came through my divorce a number of years ago, boy, what, what a freeing thing for me to say, you know what?

[00:20:55] Will: It's okay. I'm

[00:20:56] Will: not perfect and that's okay. just big step for me.

[00:21:00] Hector: I'm curious about your perspective on really how you see and how you've taken up this new role as a stepdad, you know, being a grandpa or being kind of around that stage. And then also, you know, a dad and a father with a, you know, 13 year old where you're very much in the mix of it and then you layer on the top of it that you're the stepdad.

[00:21:18] Hector: So it's just nuanced sort of thing. what has that journey been like for you?

[00:21:24] Will: It's really interesting because it's, you know, they love their dad. He's a good man. so it's like, what's my role? what my role is, is to be an example to them, to invest in them in an appropriate way. I'm not their dad. I'm not their mom. But I still have influence, right? understanding that influence.

[00:21:43] Will: it's not easy my parents weren't divorced. I didn't grow up in a divorced family. I didn't understand what it's like, but I've got a role to play in their lives while they are in, you know, my care, right? Or under my roof and our roof. And it's the influence that, you know, what I show them how I

[00:21:59] Will: live. but it's not easy because don't want to. Yeah. Overstep your bound.

[00:22:03] Will: again divorce, you know socks It's the worst thing ever and and I would encourage any of the guys listening to us today that are even contemplating that to do Everything they possibly can to reconcile their marriage because divorce is is awful.

[00:22:18] Will: So the relationship with the other guy is distant, you know, I mean, we're not buddies. We don't hang out He lives about an hour away from where we live So i don't see him all that frequently outside of dropping off the kids or picking them up. But I respect his position.

[00:22:31] Will: I, one thing I do is, is with the kids is I, build up their dad. I never say anything negative about their father. Nor would I ever, ever want them to think any less you know, of their father than they do. And so, my job I think with him is to encourage the kids to, you know, talk well about him.

[00:22:49] Will: to encourage that relationship and that understand when, when they're with me, that

[00:22:53] Will: I've got a role to play as well.

[00:22:55] Hector: Yeah. Tell me about some of the work that you've done you know, you are, kind of

[00:22:59] Hector: in the trenches, if you will, helping men through a lot of these things. And I'm curious in your work, what's either been the most surprising or the, biggest thing that, you've seen that isn't getting enough attention, with regards to men and sort of the, things that they're going through.

[00:23:14] Hector: Yeah,

[00:23:14] Will: The first thing that jumps out is loneliness. I even, I got an email from one of the subscribers to my newsletter about 20 minutes before you and I went on and, he said, you know, pray for me. I'm just lonely. I don't have many friends. I don't know where to turn. Loneliness, I think, is an epidemic of men.

[00:23:30] Will: true deep friendship where you and I as men feel okay to be really vulnerable and really honest. Hey, I'm struggling with lust. Man, I need, you know, I need some help here. Or, you know, whatever it is. Hey, really screwed up financially. I made a really bad decision here. Guys, I need some help. I need some We don't do that as men, even in my own life, I, I've been, my wife is, very discerning, and she's pointed out the fact that I've got, you know, mile wide worth of relationships. And so I'm trying to be intentional with a group of guys in my life to sort of break that down. And I would encourage guys listening to us today to find that one guy or those three or four guys that you can really develop a relationship with that you guys can be honest with each other, encourage each other, help each other, you know, and hold each other accountable.

[00:24:21] Will: and just be there for each other. So I think loneliness would be the thing that really sticks out. And not just because I got the email a few

[00:24:27] Will: minutes ago, but just it is an epidemic,

[00:24:31] Hector: up because when. I mean, I experienced that feels there's times when I was like, Jesus, you know, and, it's, it's a very, visceral sort of feeling and emotion. and the challenge that I've, found with regards to what you said is that the.

[00:24:44] Hector: the initial reaction for me is dating apps or bars or worse, you know, massage parlor, like who knows where guys go. that pit is so deep, right. With how far you can sort of get down. And the real antidote is like calling a buddy or like hanging out with a good guy friend going deep just hanging out.

[00:25:04] Hector: Yeah. either and or both are great, but it's usually, the things that actually make things better, not just pacify stuff for a few hours, is relationships with other good guys.

[00:25:17] Will: couldn't have said it better, and yet it is so lacking in our society today. We're so busy. We're running here, doing this, getting this done, taking the kit. We don't have time to create real relationship. We have our phones. We're looking at our phones. We're on here. And so we distract ourselves, as you said, with these things that, for the moment, feel really good, but then are so empty, and then even, at times afterward, we feel shame. Right? I mean, you know, I've talked to guys about pornography that just are so deep into it. and they just are so full of shame and embarrassment and just, but that's where they go instead of finding some wingmen, right? Finding those wingmen that are there that, hey, Hector, man, I need to talk.

[00:26:03] Will: Do you have five minutes? I need to dump something on you. I need it. so, being very intentional trying to encourage. You know, a group of guys, that I know here locally in North Carolina to go deep, I want to develop real friendships that, I'm there as a friend and they're there for me so I don't dump everything on my wife.

[00:26:20] Will: I mean, my wife is my

[00:26:21] Will: best friend and she will listen and she's

[00:26:23] Will: amazing. But there are certain things that, I need

[00:26:26] Will: guy.

[00:26:27] Hector: I've talked about that a lot. I mean, that was a huge mistake that I made was just dumping all over my ex, you know, and that's because to your point, I didn't have, guys that I call in that instance, you know? And one of the things that we have. There's a theme in the earlier episodes, was just this.

[00:26:43] Hector: ability for men to be able to handle process and hold space for what men go through to expect a child or a significant other or a wife or a partner or something like that, to be able to hold that right. Like you said, to be able to dump it on them and for it to not impact them or not shake them, that's what a man can handle, right?

[00:27:06] Hector: I mean, and, and to, dump it on anybody else is just really asking for problems.

[00:27:11] Will: Yeah, you know, it's so true. And I've gone through a lot these last 15, 16 years. I had like a golden life up until then. And then like the wheels fell off in about 2008. And through it, one of the things that I'm getting okay with is that, I'm messed up, you know, I screw up. I'm not anywhere close to the guy.

[00:27:30] Will: I want to be but guess what? Nobody else is either will So you know, why are you so? Reticent about sharing some of your struggles with other guys. They're going through it, too And and they're common. I mean, you know you and I have have age gap But I guarantee we struggle with some of the same stuff and that doesn't change throughout life one thing I'd encourage you and others that all guys are messed up.

[00:27:54] Will: Nobody's perfect. Nobody's life is their Facebook life or their Instagram. Nobody's living like that in the trenches, man, it is tough and we're all battling and many of the things we're battling are very similar. And so there's no reason to have pretense. There's no reason to think that I've got to be this perfect guy it leads to a life of isolation you know a lack of fulfillment discouragement despair Loneliness as we discussed and it just takes you to a dark place Where just with that

[00:28:25] Will: intimacy and, that friendship can just lighten the world and lighten the

[00:28:29] Will: burden for you,

[00:28:31] Hector: Yeah. This has been a really fun conversation and, just the way that it worked out and it came together. well, I got one more question for you, but if listeners want to follow up with you, go deeper in your world and get connected, where's the best place that you go?

[00:28:42] Will: Yeah. So, more than man. com or more than man. com slash subscribe. I have a newsletter that I talk to guys. I'm really open with my struggles with what I'm going through, what I've learned. And, if they go to the morethanman. com front slash subscribe, every Saturday morning, 9 AM, they can get an email for me or if they just want to reach out individually, I talked to a number of guys via email today that reached out to me.

[00:29:06] Will: It's will at more than

[00:29:07] Will: man. com will at more than man. com.

[00:29:10] Hector: And as always, you can check the show notes for that. well, my last question for you is in your opinion, what is the definition of modern masculinity?

[00:29:20] Will: I think it's being true to who you are. It's understanding that we're all unique and living in that uniqueness. We don't have to be anything else other than who we were created to be. And, to me, that's, a true man living out their calling and living it with excellence.