Parenting: How Dads Can Have it All and Thrive with Larry Hagner

[00:00:00] Hector: Fellas, what's going on? I hope this episode finds you well, and I hope this episode leaves you better than when it found you. Today's episode is with Larry Hagner, and he is the founder of the Dad Edge, and he's become, I don't know if, he's become insta famous on, on Instagram, and has been helping dads for about a decade now, and is really someone who, I look up to because he kind of has, it has a real raw perspective and he's someone who has, has been through the fire and, uh, he comes to kind of share what, uh, what he's learned from some of those burns and scars so that maybe we don't have to go through that.

[00:01:11] Hector: So enough for me, y'all let's get into today's episode with Mr. Larry Hagner.

[00:01:18] Hector: Larry, welcome to the modern masculinity podcast, man. Thanks for being here.

[00:01:23] Larry: What's up, Hector? Man, it's good to see you. Good to meet you, man.

[00:01:25] Hector: Yeah, I'm going to try and prevent myself out a little bit because The show's probably started, I found out I was going to have my first kid

[00:01:32] Larry: Nice,

[00:01:33] Hector: and, it just rocked my world, frankly, I was 25 and just not in that mode, but, always knew that I'd step up and we can get to that and the listeners know about me, but we always like to start show with getting into your world because, know, you've, you've built this amazing community, you've got your own family, you've got your own business.

[00:01:50] Hector: And everybody sees on social media that damn, it must be so awesome to be there and damn, he's got it. So great. And, I'm sure you do, but also what are some real challenges that you're still dealing with today, or, that are prescient for you when it comes to being a father, a husband, a provider, a business owner, anything with regards to that.

[00:02:07] Larry: How much time you got?

[00:02:08] Hector: I think we've got to the hour book.

[00:02:11] Larry: So I appreciate that. my life is far from perfect. I do feel insanely blessed. I've got four amazing. wonderful boys and you don't raise four young men without a challenge without a lot of things going on, but I am married, like literally to my best friend and my most favorite person in the world.

[00:02:27] Larry: And that's Jessica. We've been married for, 20 years this year, holy crap, where did that go? But, I just literally sent her a text this morning because we went out on a quick day date this morning, we went and got coffee together and breakfast.

[00:02:38] Larry: And. I literally just sent her this with a photo that we took this morning. I said, I'm so grateful for you. I'm so honored to do life with you. I'm blessed beyond measure. You are my favorite person in the world. The love I have for you runs so deep that I can't even put words into it. She just responded.

[00:02:51] Larry: You're so sweet. I love you too. I'm so grateful for you. I can't imagine life without you. And I will tell you that's great, right? It didn't come without challenge and it didn't come without a ton of work. it's not like you get married and, all the stars align everything's great.

[00:03:03] Larry: I think that there's some expectation of that. And I think that's a really bad expectation to have when you first get married because people don't really realize that, a lot of work that gets put into it. It's just like anything else. if you want to be a surgeon, you got to go to medical school and fellowship and residency and all that.

[00:03:18] Larry: If you want to be a cop, you got to go to the police Academy. If you want to be a firefighter, you got to go to the fire Academy. You gotta learn these things and when it comes to marriage, it's man, it's no different. I just spoke to a, client of mine and he's one of my coaching clients and he's trying very hard to get his wife into marriage counseling and therapy and her response is we shouldn't need that.

[00:03:36] Larry: And his wife's a schoolteacher for special needs kids with autism. And he's like, I just don't know how to get it through. I want us to go and, do this work together. And she feels that if we, going to therapy is like surrendering the white flag.

[00:03:47] Larry: Like, we're just not even meant for each other. And I was there's nothing further from the truth. I was like, you know what you should do? Is ask her how much she loves her job. Does she love her job? And he's like, Oh, my God, she loves her job. I was like, of course she loves her job. I was like, how much training and how much learning and education had to go in to being a special needs teacher for kids with autism?

[00:04:06] Larry: I guarantee she didn't wake up one day and was like, I think I'm going to do this. I know I went to school for art and design, but I'm going to go do this, it would be a very frustrating journey and she probably wouldn't even second guess,I probably should go learn how to do this, right?

[00:04:19] Larry: And, but yet in our marriages for some crazy reason, I didn't think it was crazy for a long time, but now I think it's crazy. For some crazy reason, we assume that if we need help or a guide or someone to just help us along with certain things that are bumps in the road for marriages and relationships and parenting, nobody does anything great in life without first learning how to do it.

[00:04:40] Larry: And when it comes to like my life and what I've been doing, it's been a lot of work, a lot of education. Nothing I've done has come easy. And but it's, enjoyable. It really is. And wouldn't want to do any other type of work in my life than what we're doing here at that edge.

[00:04:55] Hector: I think you speak to something theme that's come up on the show and there's this changing, there's this evolution where, if you think back to my dad, he didn't think about being a better dad necessarily. he did what he could, but me, I'm joining dad's groups and I'm on webinars and I'm doing what you're saying and the fact that I'm going in and realizing that I don't know anything. About this whole dad thing and I also can't look to the examples in my life I can't really look to my dad or other family members, occasionally had some friends dads that were Emblematic of these things but there's no real models and that's really what I love about what you're doing Is that you're creating this model, but I'm with the guy that's in your group and I've had those same kinds of conversations and it's really strange because for some reason there's some taboo but it, it seems to be different.

[00:05:40] Hector: and it seems to be put in a different bucket or a category than almost anything else. Cause it's like, why? but I'm with that guy because we've had similar challenges.

[00:05:48] Larry: like I said, dude, I've been doing this work for a very long time but there is not one week, not one day that goes by, especially the podcasting. I always recommend if you really want to fast track your learning for anything that you want to do really well start a podcast and literally just be a student.

[00:06:02] Larry: Of learning from other people. I'll give you an example. Dude, I've done 108 episodes almost nine years. And I have talked to some amazing people and I've learned some amazing things. And sometimes, every now and again, when you feel like you have, literally learned it all, You're like, okay, I think I've got it, which is, by the way, a really dumb thing to even think about.

[00:06:21] Larry: The most successful people in the world are the ones who are a lifelong learner, and usually the most successful people are like, I haven't even scratched the surface of how much, more I'm going to learn. But here's what I'll tell you. I just interviewed a guy a few weeks ago. He's a licensed marriage and family therapist, And he also wrote a book called, get this title is classic, exhausted wives and bewildered husbands. And about freaking died, man. When I heard that, I was like, dude, where did you get that name? He was just like, honestly, it just came out of my practice.

[00:06:49] Larry: because I've been doing this now for so long. And I just really realized that the people that were always sitting in front of me were exhausted wives and bewildered husbands. it's just so much confusion. And He looked at me and I'll never forget this, man. He goes, Do you really want to know the three keys to success when it comes to people learning and elevating their life?

[00:07:06] Larry: And I'm like, Please. this is number one. People need a model to follow. I'll give you an example interviewed Frankie Edgar like three times, he's a UFC hall of famer, right? Frankie has retired. I actually just talked to him last week and he's opening up his own gym.

[00:07:21] Larry: And so think about that. Frankie Edgar is the model. He's like the instructor, other people that want to learn how to fight or do MMA. That's their model, right? And it's all the things that he's going to teach. So that's the model. Then you need the skills And the tactical training to then bring that model to life.

[00:07:37] Larry: So what Frankie does, right? He's like, okay, I'm going to teach people how to wrestle. I'm going to teach people grappling. I'm going to teach people striking. I'm going to teach people defense and offense and the whole nine yards. Right? So then that's the skills and the tactics to bring that model to life.

[00:07:49] Larry: The third thing is a community of minded people that are going to do this with you. All of us have a like minded vision. If you really think about it, this is why things like MMA, Krav Maga, Taekwondo, Brazilian Jiu Jitsu. They're highly successful because that's exactly what they do. They have a model, they have the instructor, they have the curriculum, the skills and the tactics, and then they have a community of students that do life together so we can practice with each other, so we can hold each other accountable, so we can spar with each other, we can learn from each other.

[00:08:15] Larry: Those are the three things. And when I thought I was like, that's what we've been doing. And dad has for eight years, and that's why you guys have results. But I never thought of it just in that simple way. And when I heard that, I was like, the rest of the world really needs to know this, right?

[00:08:27] Larry: But that is the key to success if people dive into training like that.

[00:08:31] Hector: So when it comes to these models or even skills, I think the community is a big part and we can talk about that, but I'm fascinated by the blind spots that guys seem to have, because I think that being part of these groups or being exposed to these things, it shows you things that you can't really see are unseen.

[00:08:45] Hector: Are there things that come up for you as, big ahas that guys are having? When they're getting a part of your group.

[00:08:52] Larry: Yeah, I think so. for instance, the first 12 weeks that guys do life with us, they go into a 12 week program with three evolutions. So they do four weeks of training in three different areas. first, for instance, one of the evolutions is what we call partnership, which is basically marriage, right?

[00:09:07] Larry: Not everybody's married. Somebody's might be dating, but whatever. It doesn't matter. Most men are not going to do life single for their entire life. So they're going to need those tactical skills to connect, to communicate, to create intimacy, to create psychological safety, to have deep conversations.

[00:09:20] Larry: Besides, how was your day? and to create that depth in that relationship. And quite frankly, I don't know about you, but my mom was married three times and no one actually pulled me aside. No dad pulled me aside or my mom was like, Hey. If you really want to spark an incredible connection with your wife when you get married years from now, this is how you do it.

[00:09:37] Larry: nobody teaches you that stuff. There were no classes in high school. I took no classes in college. The only people that I have seen that have actually a leg up on this type of information and the only people that I've ever seen that really has their strides ahead of the normal person is someone who got their degree in psychology or someone who's a licensed family therapist or someone who's got a Ph. D. in this stuff because they truly understand relationship dynamics and communication and conflict resolution, all these skills that the rest of us are just not taught.

[00:10:04] Larry: So that's the first four weeks. The second four weeks is leadership, how to lead your kids, how to lead your family, right? And then Every evolution has one week of a retrospect. So three skills, three weeks of skills, and then one retrospect to review what we've taught these guys.

[00:10:16] Larry: And then the final evolution is the connection with your kids. That's a whole other animal, right? it's very hard. What I've noticed, and you're speaking to a guy who battles this with this. Still, I have four boys. My hardest relationship is with my seven year old right now. And it's because it's hard for me to speak seven year old Like I have to train myself in order to really communicate and connect with him.

[00:10:34] Larry: My 17 year old, it's easy, so easy because he's basically an adult. And so is my 15 year old, my 10 year old and seven year old. That's a bit harder, but I'll tell you, those are ages that you cannot neglect because investing in connecting with your kids, especially that age. It's a lot like investing in your 401k and enjoying every seven years.

[00:10:54] Larry: There's a compound interest effect, right? The deposits that I put in my seven year old right now will dictate the connection I have with him when he's 14 and if I neglect those or I pass those by or I don't realize those, I'm going to have a really strained, difficult relationship and connection with him when he's 14 and that's not something want to put to chance. That's not something I'm willing to negotiate on. I'll negotiate in other areas. But that's not one of them, right? And the guys that do life with us, they're not willing to negotiate on those areas either. So,I think to wrap this up in a bow, this is training, where people are just not getting anywhere else, right?

[00:11:24] Larry: Here's the other thing, too. I want to really challenge the perspective of men just couples in general, families in general, right? It used to be, back before we all had houses and all that stuff, like families, But when we're More or less live together in a tribe in a village and people helped each other out and they did life together.

[00:11:40] Larry: now, we're all in our own silos in our own homes. And the thing about, working from your home remotely is great, right? It's super convenient. You can, roll out of bed in your pajamas and do your job. However, that's isolated us even more now as just a society of doing life together.

[00:11:55] Larry: So it really does take a community. It really does take a village because one perspective is quite frankly, it's just not enough. One strategy is just not enough. we miss out big time when we don't learn from each other.

[00:12:06] Hector: Yeah, I'm encouraged that you've been doing it for nine years. I think, back nine years. I was 23. So I was four, so far away from thinking about this life, but it was thrust on me. by the divine grace. and I think that in, taking it up, we don't really know what we don't know.

[00:12:22] Hector: And so you talked about this leadership aspect, you talked about the communication aspect. I'd love for you to just expand on some of those and maybe share something. Like, I would imagine that there's a wake up call that happens for some guys. And maybe that's something that they're always. had in their life or it happens before they have a kid or they have a kid And all of a sudden, some wake up calls happen but is that something that you're seeing that guys are being forced into something causes a guy to come into your group are there some some themes around that?

[00:12:50] Larry: There is, be really honest with you, Hector, man. it's hard for me to say this, but I'll say it. There isn't a week that goes by and lately, man, I don't know if it's something in the air. It's been about every other day for about the past, probably six to eight weeks. Where I get a random email from someone like this morning.

[00:13:05] Larry: let me pull this guy up real quick. this is an email I woke up to this morning. He signed up for one of our free trainings, which is 25 intimate conversation starters. So basically, it's a free resource that, you get 25 questions to go back and forth with your wife, to initiate deeper conversations.

[00:13:19] Larry: And I also have a video, a free video training of why psychologically these questions are very different and the impact is different. And the video training also includes Hey, when you ask your wife these questions, here's how you reflect back. this is not a rapid fire.

[00:13:31] Larry: These are conversation starters, right? And this guy, his name's James. I'll leave it at that. Thank you for the resources, Larry. Please help. that's what I woke up to. He sent it to me, I, I woke up to this morning, but he sent it to me last night at 1 10 a. m. I messaged him back and I said, Hey, James, Larry here.

[00:13:46] Larry: What can I help with specifically? This is what he replied with. My wife and I have a daughter, three years old. My wife suddenly feels like we're disconnected. And brought up That our relationship doesn't feel like it did before. So maybe it's our daughter who we focus on because she has some health concerns.

[00:14:00] Larry: It's been a lot that we've been going through. I don't want to lose my wife and now I don't want to lose my daughter and be divorced parents. Now here's the scary thing, right? James wife opened up to him and said, she voiced some concerns that they're disconnected and she doesn't like it.

[00:14:13] Larry: Now, here's what I'll tell you. Here's the scary thing, and this is not my study. This comes from John Gottman. He's like the pioneer of marriage. If a woman says something like that out loud, studies have consistently shown that she's been thinking about that for Two years. he's got a three year old daughter.

[00:14:27] Larry: At year one, this was probably rolling through her mind. So that's terrifying if you really think about it. So I didn't waste any time with an email back to this guy. I actually shot him a personal video because the thing about it is Hector and I freaking care, man, I really care.

[00:14:41] Larry: And when I say I care, as far as I'm concerned, under my watch, the guys that do life with us, and this guy is outside of our group, by the way, he's not a part of our mastermind on my watch. I don't want any man to lose his marriage. I've seen that devastation.

[00:14:52] Larry: I've seen women leave, take kids. The guy's left with nothing. And physically, mentally, emotionally, and even financially, it's catastrophic. And now that guy has to live the rest of his life wishing he had more time with his kids. And he could have taken action earlier. Now, I'm not, here to lay blame and fault, but here's what I'll tell you.

[00:15:09] Larry: the reason I shared James story is I shot him a video and I said, listen, man, don't mess around with 25 intimate conversation starters. Don't mess around with listening to podcasts or audio books or whatever. You need to take action. You need to do it now. Because the fact that she said this out loud, now the clock is ticking big time and we're on borrowed time.

[00:15:26] Larry: So I, am imploring you to take action, get into our group and start doing the work. And he emailed me right back and said, I'm in, let's go, which is great. Now, I will say this, that's one example. Your question was, is there something that usually happens that propels men into doing something? And the answer is yes.

[00:15:42] Larry: The challenge that I have and what I'd really, like to see, Hector, to be honest with you, is we take action on learning things like this way before a crisis happens. And I'll tell you the psychological reason why When you are in your home and let's just say I'm in my office and I turn on my light switch and it sparks, I'm like, Oh, that's not good.

[00:16:00] Larry: probably not a big deal though. Nothing really happened. Do it again. It pops. It sparks. Do it again. Days go by. Weeks go by. All of a sudden I let it go for a month, right? And then my house catches on fire. And I'm frantically trying to take, like my family, like the wedding albums, the things that are important and meaningful, and I'm on the phone with the fire department, please, for the love of God, get to my house and put out this fire.

[00:16:22] Larry: When all I had to do was call the electrician and be like, Hey, my light switch is sparking. It's weird. Can you come fix it? Or I just fix it. So notice that when we are proactive with that approach, there's calm. there's no disparity. There's no frantic. There's no fight, flight or freeze.

[00:16:37] Larry: There's no running out of my house trying to save my family. I'm calm. I'm content. And that is where people learn the best. They really do. I'm not saying that, learning doesn't happen when you're definitely held to the fire and now you're in desperation, but it's better if people are proactive.

[00:16:51] Larry: we see this all the time in the health industry, right? People will ignore their health until they have a heart attack. One of my clients actually just had open heart surgery. He's dude, I'm telling you right now, yeah. That is a surgery you never want. It is barbaric. It's inhumane.

[00:17:04] Larry: I've never felt like I was going to die more than waking up after having open heart surgery. But yet, we'll wait until something happens before we're like, yeah, I think I should probably start taking better care of my health. We don't do that with our cars, with oil changes. We don't do that with our teeth when it comes to the dentist, but we do this in our relationships under our own roof for some crazy reason.

[00:17:22] Larry: And this is where I challenge men like, hey, Take action before the heart attack, take action before your teeth fall out before you go to the dentist, take action before you see that, that light switch flicker or that spark before your house burns down. Like when you do that, you are way ahead of the game to answer your question.

[00:17:37] Larry: Yes, we have men that come and do life with us, after something bad has happened, but I encourage men to take action. things are good because that's when real learning and real good things can happen

[00:17:45] Hector: Yeah, I think that's the ideal for sure preventative measures. I'm curious if this idea of the relationship and the partnership, man, we've spent the first 20 something minutes of this conversation talking about relationships, when I thought, we're going to talk about dad stuff.

[00:17:59] Hector: And maybe that is the core of the dad stuff. Maybe that is the foundation. would you agree that there's, that's the first place to start

[00:18:06] Hector: as opposed to, as part of the dad stuff, is the relationship, is that. the foundation before you can get to any of the other Spending time you mentioned communication, all the other sorts of tactics that might come directly with the kids

[00:18:19] Larry: So I, I'll answer this kind of more, selfishly and just from my own perspective and my own experience. And then I'll answer this, from an individual standpoint, right? So I think that, if you have a single dad, or like a blended family and the guy's Hey, like I'm good on marriage, just want to level up my dad's skills, then yeah, sure.

[00:18:34] Larry: However, what most people will do is yeah. I'm a huge fan of you're married first and you're a parent second, and I know that's controversial and it's triggering. But let me explain. So think about this for a second. I don't know about how your upbringing was, but mine was really chaotic.

[00:18:49] Larry: Like I said, my mom was married three times. there was a revolving door guys that she dated between each marriage and every guy was like the same dude, just a party or a drinker, a or drug user. I wouldn't say addict, but user, abuser. Physically, mentally, emotionally, like it was a train wreck, and I never saw a successful relationship.

[00:19:05] Larry: I did see one, though, with my grandfather, my grandmother, who were married for 52 years, and my grandfather was head over heels. he was in that relationship, and so was she for that full 52 years. Not saying it was problem free, but let me explain. if you really think about it, I actually think it's better, and I've seen this for years now, and thousands of clients.

[00:19:24] Larry: That when a man gets his house in order, and when I say his house in order, his marriage in order, if he can communicate better with his wife, the chances of him communicating better with his kids are higher. If he has a better relationship with his wife, I'll show you a more patient father with his kids. Guaranteed. If, the other thing is this, if you want to have generational impact with your kids, And I'm talking about teaching them skills of how to navigate life properly, show them what a good, healthy, solidified, amazing marriage looks like, because I think one of the things we forget is that our kids Have a front row seat 3d movie to our relationship with our wives 7 and they are taking notes.

[00:20:00] Larry: They're not going to say anything here's what I'll tell you. The agreement that my wife and I made a long time ago is that I feel a tremendous obligation if I'm going to raise four good.

[00:20:09] Larry: Young men, that are going to have generational impact, then I absolutely need to show them what it looks like to love their mom and I need to be able to clearly communicate with her. I need to be respectful, loving, affectionate, all of these things, they're watching every move that we make and I want to set the bar for these boys and I want to give them like I, tell my kids all the time about tactical empathy.

[00:20:29] Larry: listening, reflecting back, understanding what someone's emotional state is and saying it out loud the same thing I do with their mom, the way I talked to my wife in a very calm voice. I never yell at my wife, never call her name. She doesn't do the same. She does the same with me.

[00:20:41] Larry: That's so important. And I also want to show my boys. I love your mom head over heels for her. She is the most important person in my life. And I think that's a very loving thing to do. and let me explain what my wife's role in all this is. My wife takes this very seriously too, because she says, my responsibility is to show my boys how you love a man.

[00:21:01] Larry: this is how you respect a man. This is how you love a man. This is how you honor a man. This is how you communicate with your husband. You never emasculate him. You never disrespect him. You're loving, you appreciate him, all of these things that my wife is very good at. And here's what I can tell you, my 17 year old is currently not in a relationship right now.

[00:21:16] Larry: And I'm always like, Hey, do you want to date people? He's yeah, I think there's a bunch of beautiful girls at my high school, most of them, I just not attracted to any of them like that. And then we pull back the onion layers and it really boils down to the fact that it's just like,they're not what I see at home.

[00:21:29] Larry: Which really tells me that it's just not the caliber of woman I want to be with, which is telling me that what my wife is doing is working. And then my son has been dating a girl. My other one, who's 15, has been dating a girl for a bit, and she's awesome. She actually reminds me so much of my wife. And, we just love this girl to death, and she treats my son so well, and my son doesn't tolerate anything less.

[00:21:47] Larry: And I think that a lot of that's it's been caught, not taught, but I think it's really important. So to answer your question, the dad skills, sure. There's so many benefits that when a guy gets his house in order with his marriage or his partnership or whatever you want to call it, that has a profound effect on the kids.

[00:22:01] Hector: Yeah, it's so fitting because i'm in a dad's group. As well, and I remember that when People come into the dad's group. they do think that, or at least there's this seeming to focus on like bedtime routine tactics and like small sort, subtle tactics with the kids and, what are we doing for snack times and like these sorts of things, which I think are helpful and great, but as people stick around, they start to realize that more of the impactful things come back to the relationships that are built with both our partners and obviously our kids.

[00:22:28] Hector: Yeah. I'm curious how that journey has evolved over time, I had a family member say recently that like kids help us, they essentially catalyze that evolution, And that, think she said something to the degree of we lose ourselves, but that's like part of the process.

[00:22:43] Hector: And I'm curious if that has resonated with you or if that relationship with your wife was always like that, or was that a building or an iterative process? can you shed some light on how that looked?

[00:22:53] Larry: It was the second. it was a building, process. I want to say actually, our boys were born, and early on, my wife we put our relationship on the back burner, like a lot of couples do quite honestly. And I think I'd tell you without a shadow of a doubt that caused a tremendous amount of strain, disconnect.

[00:23:08] Larry: Like we were ships passing in the night. We didn't fight really. we did. I take that back. We did argue quite a bit, but we sure weren't connected. We were just like existing a little bit and we were both parents. That was the thing we had in common. And be quite honest, we just lost a lot of focus on each other.

[00:23:23] Larry: And I think a lot of couples fall into that trap. And at the time, it felt incredibly like the right thing to do. we're parents, so this is our first priority. I'm not saying that our kids are not a priority. when I'm saying like my wife is number one and my kids are number two, I'm talking like a fraction of a fraction underneath that.

[00:23:36] Larry: And I'm not saying yeah, I know you have a broken arm, but me and mom have a date night. That's not what I'm saying at all. But what I am saying is hey, your mom is, a huge priority. And it's really important to our entire family because, Jessica and I are the foundation of the house.

[00:23:47] Larry: If the foundation crumbles, what happens to the second and third floor? If you have a two story, it's going to crumble just like the rest of the family. So you've got to take care of that foundation. But to answer your question, we've been married for 20 years. The first 10 were really hard, and that's because we were just meandering our way through it, and we were trying to figure it out as we went.

[00:24:04] Larry: We didn't get any extra help. In fact, my interpretation of actually getting help, mentorship, guidance, couples therapy, a coach or whatever, my thought of it was, and that this is common, but now that I know the danger that comes with this type of thinking that I'm about ready to lay on you, is it was super dangerous.

[00:24:21] Larry: And that is, we shouldn't need help. And if we do need help, we're weak. Or we're broken and I don't want to be weak or broken. It was actually that thinking kept us weak and broken. Because as soon as I waved the white flag and there's something really powerful with surrender and surrendering, meaning I don't have this all figured out.

[00:24:37] Larry: But I'm willing to learn. That's a hard step for a lot of people to take. But when you take that step, what surrender really is, power under control. Because now it's okay, I'm ready to learn, I'm ready to grow, and I'm ready to do things differently. And whatever that looks like, let's just go do it, right?

[00:24:50] Larry: But I think a lot of couples do get that wrong. And they live in the camp that Jessica and I lived in for the first 10 years of our marriage. Once we started realizing wait a second, So we don't have to know this naturally. and if we do need help, we're not wrong or broken. In fact, if we do need help, that's actually one of the most courageous things that we can do to elevate our marriage.

[00:25:07] Larry: Then let's go for it. Like I said, it's no different than always go back to like martial arts. I love jujitsu, but I didn't know how to do a rear naked choke before I learned how to do it. I might've meandered my way through it, but that instructor is going to show me how to do it. Right.

[00:25:19] Larry: How to do a fast, how to do effective and efficient. And I'm not going to scramble around with it. I'm okay with someone teaching me that. So why wouldn't I be okay with somebody teaching me how to connect better with my wife? Like it's just an interesting viewpoint.

[00:25:30] Hector: Yeah. All this is so prescient. I've shared on a number of times on the show. The reason I started this show was because of what you're talking about, where we had this point of, like you said, ships passing in the night. and it was just a big inflection point and a spark for answers.

[00:25:43] Hector: Cause I knew I didn't know what I didn't know. I'm curious about, this community at part, because one of the things that has emerged from this show and having these conversations is that so many guys who I wouldn't think are, would resonate or relate with some of this stuff, do, and it seems like every guy actually has something and finds something to relate to it about, and it seems to be that it's not as okay to talk about this stuff, right?

[00:26:07] Hector: Like guys, it's just. they should shoulder it on their own or they don't, for whatever reason, this is just not, not what we talk about Sundays at the game or like whatever it is. And so when guys come into your community, is that something that you've. Had to fight against or is that actually something that makes it, an advantage for it, for your group, just because there seems to be the stigma, with guys and talking about, whatever it is, mental health, emotions, relationships, things like that.

[00:26:32] Larry: It's an interesting take, I think, for some guys, but I think the numbers are actually minimal because I think when a guy signs up for a program like this, they already know, like I'm going to have deeper conversations than how my day was. they know we don't even have really small talk.

[00:26:44] Larry: we have a lot of fun in the group. Like we joke around and, we get the guys laughing and that kind of thing, but we don't waste time with like, how's work? Fine. Okay, great. how's your kids? Oh, they're good. no, we get right to the heart of stuff. Hey man, like how is communication with your wife going?

[00:26:57] Larry: Like how is the intimacy going? Are you taking her on date nights? Tell me what the conversations are like. How can we help? Those are the kind of conversations. Now, when you're in an environment, like what we have in Dad Edge Alliance, it's expected. But yeah, you're right. There's something to be said about the normal gist of things and the normal flow of what's on a guy's mind and heart when you're sitting there watching your kids literally game shoulder to shoulder.

[00:27:16] Larry: But here's what I can tell you. Every single man, have yet to find guys out there that don't want to have conversations like this. What I find is they don't want to be the first one to do it because they don't want to come across as like weird and I appreciate this.

[00:27:26] Larry: so I used to think man, if I have like really authentic conversations with a guy, does that feel like weird, like almost like a sopping estrogenic sponge of a man? And yeah, it does. If your delivery is terrible, if you're sitting next to a guy and had your kids literally game and maybe you've seen him a few times, you know each other's names.

[00:27:45] Larry: Like I, I know a guy our sons play basketball together and I coached his son in baseball and his name is Mark and he knows what I do and all that. And, he always, I was like, Hey man, like, how are you doing? And there are times where I'm like, man, things are going really good.

[00:27:55] Larry: Yeah. And then there are other times where I'm like, dude, I'm actually challenged right now. And he'll be like, what do you mean? I'd be like, Oh, it's my 15 year old, like it's really weird, man. Like lately, like I've noticed that he's like turning into a teenager all of a sudden. And I don't see him nearly as much as I used to.

[00:28:09] Larry: Like he's always with his friends or he's, doing this or he's doing that. Like I've just noticed different. So when I present it like that, like it's more man to man, I do it with a smile, what do you think Marx does? He's dude, man, oh my God, I have a 16 year old daughter.

[00:28:21] Larry: I feel it. Dude, bro, I feel it, man. It's like the same thing. I don't even know how to talk to this girl anymore. And then suddenly we're talking. Now, if I present it more like that, where it's more lighthearted, even a bit on the more masculine side versus dude, you have no idea how my life is crumbling right now.

[00:28:35] Larry: I cannot seem to connect with my son. that's not. That's not going to be good for a guy to guy, especially if you don't know him that well, but I will tell you approached in the right way. Most men want to start having conversations like this because they also want trusted advisors and input as well.

[00:28:48] Larry: they, I have found that most men are sick and tired of living this life of isolation, where they're doing life on their own. Like it sucks. It really does suck.

[00:28:57] Hector: Yeah, I think it's a big reason why groups like yours are so important and powerful. I'm curious what what we've talked about, you could drop it into any year and it would be fitting and it would be appropriate, but with things how they are now and society and economy and everything as combustible as it is, I just feel like it's even more important for dads to step up.

[00:29:17] Hector: I don't know what that's saying, I heard it, but every time I try to bring it up, I forget, it's the hard times, easy men, easy times, hard men, like that whole thing, where I think a lot of people agree that we're in that easy time where there's a lot of soft men, we're the precipice of there, and I think it's up to Dad specifically to lead us out of that phase. Do you think about what society is doing to guys and dads at all,and how all of the seeming craziness. can creep into the house.

[00:29:43] Larry: I think now more than ever, don't get me wrong,when I was a kid, Parents had their own challenges, right? But I'll tell you, man, and I'm not trying to sound doom and gloom at all, but the challenges that we face, and I'm talking about the parents of today, me and you, we are up against things that no generation has ever been up against.

[00:30:00] Larry: And I really think that we do not step into that active role, Of being incredibly connected to our kids, leading them, guiding them and just really doing life with them being in their life. And I'm not talking about like just surface level. How was your day? Okay, great. Cool. That's the end of our conversations.

[00:30:17] Larry: I'm talking like let's have Incredible depth in our relationships. my boys and like I said, it has not been easy, man. nothing, nothing we do that we do well or that's worth it is easy, but I'm here to tell you, have an incredible relationship with my oldest two boys and my younger two too, but, they're in the, heat of it right now, my 17 year old, he's gonna be 18 in a few months.

[00:30:35] Larry: My 15 year old is gonna be 16 in two weeks. They are bombarded with social media, politics. this whole gender thing going on, there's a lot of chaos going on and if we are not like an active role and showing them what good looks like,they're way more susceptible to the buffet of absolute craziness out there that they're subjected to.

[00:30:53] Larry: We, had a guy, in our group, we have a free group called the dad edge, dad's living legendary, and we've got about 20, 000 guys in that group. I'm not sure if you're a part of it or not, but you're welcome to be a part of it. but it's basically a Facebook group. And what we do in that group is we just, men just ask questions of each other, right?

[00:31:07] Larry: we just, and I'll post some tips and things in there as well. And, but guys ask really great questions. And one guy was like, asked a question like, Hey, My son is nine. do I have the masturbation talk with him and the porn talk with him or do I just let it go and he'll figure it out.

[00:31:22] Larry: And there's a part of me. I was like, I can't believe that question is brought up, but it's fine. I mean, how people operate makes sense to them. I chimed in on that post and I said, we absolutely need to be the ones having this conversation because if we're not the ones that are having the conversation, then they're having it with their peers.

[00:31:36] Larry: Okay. And then they're going to go to the internet and we know the bear traps and the landmines that go into that one. So playing that super active and involved role is so important, man, so important. And I'm not saying that your journey is going to be flawless and it's going to be perfect. It's going to be messy doing it that way.

[00:31:51] Larry: if you want to remain clean, just remain on the sidelines and just watch it happen. And if you want to remain unscathed, quite frankly, you'll get scathed a whole lot more doing that, but it's more down the road. But It's a landmine out there. it's a field that it's hard to navigate, especially now, our kids have a window to the world, these devices and.

[00:32:08] Larry: If we're not helping them through that journey, man, no one is, and they're gonna get sucked into a lot of bad things.

[00:32:13] Hector: yeah. And that's not doom and gloom. It's let's get ready and it's time to dig in. Frankly. Larry, this has been such a fantastic conversation with people want to get deeper in your world. I know you've got a, you mentioned a Facebook group, you've got a podcast, Instagram.

[00:32:25] Hector: where's the best place to. Get connected with you.

[00:32:28] Larry: best way is, thedadedge. com, thedadedge. It's not dadedge, it's really simple. You got three different pathways you can take. You can opt into some of our free resources and trainings. You can listen to the podcast, or you can apply to be a part of the Mastermind.

[00:32:39] Larry: That's one way you can find me on Instagram. If you want to follow me, I'm always putting out content every single day to help people if that's at the dad edge, in our Facebook group. If you just want to search up, dad edge, dad's living legendary. You'll find that free group there. Just request access.

[00:32:53] Larry: it's a fun group. the guys operate with a lot of. Humility and a lot of integrity in that group. it's a great group. but yeah, that's the best way to find me.

[00:33:01] Hector: We'll link up all those down in the show notes and, appreciate you being here. My last question for you, Larry, and this is something that we get to some of the guests is in your opinion, what is the definition of modern masculinity?

[00:33:11] Larry: That's a good question. I think we already mentioned it. I follow guys and I'm friends with guys like Ryan Mickler. I'm friends with Matt Bordeaux, Bedros Koulian, Steve Eckert, these men who, Quite frankly, I can't stand the stereotypical, like Peter Griffin, from frat like I can't stand that or Homer Simpson or, all these other, even commercials where they make men and dads look like total morons, like total idiots.

[00:33:32] Larry: And I don't like that. I think that really emasculates us and it puts us in a light that quite frankly, isn't accurate. And I think men who are willing to stand tall guys, like I've mentioned, guys like Matt Bordeaux, Ryan Mickler, Beatrice Cooley, and these types of men who are just like, no, this is not what modern masculinity is all about.

[00:33:48] Larry: Modern masculinity is all about, I'm a kind man, right? But I'm also a dangerous man. And I know how to protect myself. I know how to protect my family, right? And I'll go to war with anyone who wants to try to hurt me or my family. So I'm a protector. I'm also a provider. I'm going to put bread and food and water and everything else on my table.

[00:34:05] Larry: I'm gonna provide for my family, right? But I'm not gonna just provide means. I'm also gonna provide love, compassion, affection, deep conversations and guidance, right? And I'm also, I think one thing that makes a very masculine man is I'm gonna show you how much I love your mom. And I'm gonna work at that relationship like my life depends on it.

[00:34:22] Larry: And I'm gonna show you what good looks like. I'm gonna show her what good looks like. That in my mind, yeah. Is a masculine man. It's not the guys who are bearded and screaming and yelling and all this other stuff. Maybe there's a time and a place for that, but that is modern masculinity to me.

[00:34:38] Hector: said fellows. I want to thank you for being here and appreciate you sticking with us. We'd love a rating, a review, wherever you get your podcasts. If you know a guy who is going through it, maybe not, maybe you don't know that they're going through it, but you just know that they're going through some changes in their life.

[00:34:49] Hector: Maybe they had a kid, they're getting married, something like that. send them this episode. Let's grow the tribe together. And as always, we appreciate you being here. We'll see you on the next one. Later fellas.