How Nico De Bruyn is Dominating the Landscaping Industry With Advanced Marketing Strategies

[00:00:00] Hector: M Y P fam, what is going on? Welcome to today's episode. My name is Hector Santhi Esteban, and I am here to help you market, monetize, and grow your show. Today's show is exactly about that. We're gonna talk not only about marketing your podcast, but we're gonna talk about how you can monetize your show, even if you're not the Big Joe Rogans or the big call your daddies, or whatever it is, no matter how big your show is.

[00:00:21] Hector: We're gonna talk about some simple. Relatable, accessible ways that you guys can go out there and start to monetize it. And our guest today is Adam McNeil this is what he does. His job is to match brands that are advertising on podcasts and go out and find those podcasts that, work with those advertisements.

[00:00:39] Hector: Right. And what I really love about it is that he's not just there focusing on the big, big shows. He's there really trying to find the up and comers and. The opportunities that that creates. So it's a great conversation. There's a ton of stuff I'd encourage you to go get connected with him and he gives you guys some really simple ways that you guys can go out there and get started monetizing your show as well.

[00:00:58] Hector: So without further ado, let's get into today's interview with Mr. Adam McNeil.

[00:01:03] Hector: NYP fam, I want you guys to give a nice, warm welcome to Mr. Adam McNeil. Adam, thanks for joining us. Hey, dude.

[00:01:10] Adam: It is a joy and pleasure to be here, Hector. Thank you.

[00:01:12] Hector: This happens a few times. People, I think on our last show Johnny Podcast asked me, he's like, do you guys, we didn't even do a prep call. We didn't do anything. And it was like, no, I don't like doing prep calls because there's so much genius that happens on those prep calls. And I'm like, damnit, I wish we would record this.

[00:01:25] Hector: And so literally a few seconds before we started, I told you to stop cuz you're right in the middle of telling me your story. And I thought it would be important for the listeners to hear, because a lot of people think you know, they. As whatever, right. Podcasts and they kind of distance themselves from us and they say, well, maybe it works for him, but that kind of stuff's not gonna work for me.

[00:01:42] Hector: Or he hasn't gone through what I've gone through, whatever it is. But I'd love for you to catch us up on your story and kinda share how you got into the podcasting space.

[00:01:49] Adam: Yeah, absolutely. I'll tell you the destination first so that the listeners kind of know where I am now and then take you back in time to where I was before because it doesn't really connect. And the way that I got here is quite an interesting story. so today I work as the VP of Marketing Media.

[00:02:03] Adam: We represent about two dozen clients that Patrick Cereal, Lomi Blue, you name it. We do about 20 million of ad spend on podcasts. But I never intended to get into the podcast space. And prior to all of this, I have to take you back about two years ago to the beginning of 2020 when didn't know what podcasts I was at the time. I had just graduated college, worked a job, and I came to for startup in Calgary called Fume, and I was running their influencer marketing program there. I had no experience in it. I was just reaching out to creators. We were getting products set out, et c. during that season of life, I was also competitively participating in a community called kma.

[00:02:42] Adam: If people are watching this, I dunno if there's a video version of it, but it's a wooden Japanese ball and cup game. And I got into that in college and the whole community is centered around events. People would go out to them, you jam with your friends, et cetera. It's a skill progression. It's like a yo-yo community or something. And in the middle of 2020 when everything started to shut down all the events turned away and I was getting pretty disappointed and dissatisfied with lack of connection. And you know, I was pretty entrepreneurial at the companies was, distribution is hard to get domas up here and. They had done a partnership with the coffee brand where they were also manufacturing coffee beans, et cetera.

[00:03:20] Adam: They were producing them, and I messaged the owner, I said, Hey, can you send me a bag of those beans? I wanna brew them, and then do an Instagram live where I brew and review it and talk to my audience. I had like four followers at the time. Nobody knew who I was. Few people knew that I was selling Alva in North America.

[00:03:36] Adam: Were. And so I did this. I had like two people tune into the live stream. I talked about the beans, talked about my methods, gave some education, like two people showed up and I just wanted to talk to people. I was alone. Everybody was in their homes. I needed an outlet to just vent. And at the end of that 30 minutes, 40 minutes, one of the guys said, Hey, you should do this again next week, but with a different bag of coffee and talk about other things.

[00:03:59] Adam: So I did it again, and three people tuned in. And again, someone said, you should do this again, but maybe get someone from the Kma community on and talk to them about what's happening in Kma. And sure enough, this happened week over week and slowly three became five, five became 15. And then one day someone messaged me saying, Hey, I love these interviews you're doing.

[00:04:18] Adam: Can you upload them to a podcast platform? Because I can't catch them live. I dunno how to do that. And so I had to find a really janky way of going into the source code on Instagram to pull my lives, to turn them into audio, to then eventually put them onto Spotify. Apple, wherever people are listening to.

[00:04:34] Adam: I didn't know anything about the podcast community used Anchor when everybody hated Anchor, and at that point I just kinda stumbled into having a podcast and it ultimately grew over the course of year about listeners is relatively a small community and turned into quite a unique journey for me.

[00:04:51] Adam: So that's how I got into podcasting first and foremost. And then it eventually evolved,

[00:04:56] Hector: you said that you were able to also monetize it pretty successfully as well. Can you talk about what that looked like?

[00:05:02] Adam: Yeah, absolutely. monetization kind of came by accent as well. I honestly think most of my journey in the podcast world has been being in the right place at the right time and being open to coincidences. So I was brewing coffee every episode That was part of the core of what the content of the show was.

[00:05:18] Adam: We brewed coffee, talked a little bit about it at the beginning. It was the warmth, the drink that brought us together, and then we talked about. And over time I would get audience members or listeners that would chime in and say, Hey are there some beans you'd recommend? is there particular coffee stuff that you think I should use, et cetera.

[00:05:33] Adam: I don't think I was that, much of an efficient auto when it came to coffee. I knew a decent bit, but plenty of other people that were far better experts than me, and I kept referring them to them. And then I realized, you know what they're asking me because they want my input on it because they trust me.

[00:05:46] Adam: They don't want me to just send them to someone else. They wanna know what I think. So I started giving recommendations and sure enough I reached out to a brand that I really liked that I just kept recommending their stuff for free anyways, and I said, been talking about your guys' stuff. I bought your stuff lots.

[00:05:59] Adam: I love it. And I know that some of my audience members love it too. I would love to promote, you guys do have an affiliate program and this coffee lab, I, if you're familiar them, they're based Arkansas reached out to them and sure enough they said, yeah, we have an affiliate program.

[00:06:11] Adam: We're just trying out. And got signed up on that. I didn't really know that people did flat rate sponsorships or anything. And sure enough, I took that deal and basically, give or take 500 bucks a month off of that. In terms of affiliate commissions that were coming in, that I mostly just put towards getting more coffee , cause that's all I really cared about at the time.

[00:06:26] Adam: But here's where the real monetization came in, before I started the podcast, I was selling cananas. I was hardly selling one to two a month, and that's like maybe a hundred bucks a month. It was hardly anything. By the end of that first year of running the podcast, I had a merch line of product that I was.

[00:06:42] Adam: well as the Canas and I had sold close to $5,000 worth ofs over the course of year once. Ran a single paid ad on Facebook, once ran any retargeting, didn't run any other paid.

[00:06:59] Adam: Overly push in the show, aside from mentioning, Hey, if you wanna pick up somes, by all means, go to this brand site or whatever. But if you're in Canada, check out my site. I carry this brand. And it was such a seamless integration that it turned into a revenue generator for myself, and I realized how much revenue could be driven through a podcast.

[00:07:15] Adam: So that was part of it. And then I started an event on the side that ended up becoming a big component of my revenue. And so now I host Canada's biggest canal event here in Calgary. Lastly, I had a small Paton, but that was about it,

[00:07:26] Adam: and then all together for about 30 grand of revenue in the first year.

[00:07:30] Hector: What a great success story because so many people think that they need Joe Rogans numbers, that they need, millions of downloads in order to, make money. Right. and I think that, some people might say, wow, 30,000, that's a lot. Some people might say not whatever, but I think it's significant more than anything.

[00:07:45] Hector: Right. I was talking to a, host she was like, If I could just cover some production costs, if I could just make a little bit what that would do for her. So I'm curious, as this was happening as you were. know, starting to see the opportunities. I think a lot of people are worried about being like a sellout or worried about you know, how is my audience gonna feel?

[00:08:03] Hector: Or, I think they have their own insecurities about money and selling stuff and things. How did you deal with that? Knowing that your audience wasn't huge. so I'd imagine that, there was a relationship, a connection that you felt with these people. So how were you able to kind of navigate that whole thing?

[00:08:17] Adam: I actually communicated it with them and I asked them for their permission more than anything. It was kind of a weird circumstance, so when I was doing the sponsorship stuff with Onyx Coffee Lab, it was so organic and it was so embedded into the culture of the show that everybody was super on board and huge supporters of it. That one was really easy. The second one that I ended up saying no to was I ended up having a conversation with Manscape about sponsoring the show. And I put a question on my Instagram story, cuz that's where my audience primarily connected with me, was on Instagram. And so I put a post up going, what do you guys think about me taking on Manscape as a sponsor on the show?

[00:08:51] Adam: And I asked them, and most of 'em thought it would be hilarious and that they think I should do it and make some sorts of jokes or whatever. But more and more I realized for me, at the small size of the show that I had, I think it was important to keep the sponsors really relevant to the content. So I didn't think that there was a good content fit there where it made sense.

[00:09:08] Adam: Now, I'm on the other side of that equation now where I work with the brands that are putting lots of money into podcasts that aren't always perfect. Content fits, and there is a place, and I think a time for those sorts of sponsors to step into your show, particularly when you reach a little bit of larger scale.

[00:09:21] Adam: But at the size that wanted to stick to working with products that I knew intimately, that I could connect with intimately that we're gonna pay attention. So I was working with AeroPress. I was working with Onyx. Worked with a couple other coffee brochures here in Calgary that I know, and a lot of other stuff that was like very close to the content.

[00:09:37] Adam: I was working with. The one thing I didn't do was, even though the podcast was about kma, I never took a single kma sponsor cause I didn't wanna sell out my audience to a particular brand in that space. Reason being is there's a lot of loyalties that go in and out. I wanted to really agnostic to the community I was talking to in terms of what brands I would promote.

[00:09:56] Adam: But coffee, I could be completely loyalist to one brand or another brand if I wanted to because it was an adjacent product to my main.

[00:10:03] Hector: What a great point. And I see a lot of hosts choosing products that are either easy to get affiliates for or what everybody's doing, or they just do the anchor as, or whatever. But I really like how you saw the need to create a, fit, I think that's brilliant.

[00:10:19] Hector: but it allows you to stay agnostic and that's kind of the problem that I would have on this show is I don't like to recommend, you know, we were talking a little bit about recording softwares early, and I don't like to recommend a whole lot because things go in and out. There were one time where I was really bullish on that tool that we were talking about before and, now not so much.

[00:10:32] Hector: and what's interesting is that you picked a, tangential kind of product that it still made sense, right? So I'm curious was there a reason that you chose, doing coffee as opposed to, I don't know, sitting in a, bucket of ice or eating hot wings or like what was it about the coffee that you thought made sense?

[00:10:48] Adam: So this is my sell out for coffee, first off I love coffee. Big advocate for it. And the reason I like coffee isn't because of the caffeine, isn't because of the flavors or anything like that, even though that's a huge benefit that I get outta coffee. It's really that. I always loved the way that coffee brought people together for a conversation.

[00:11:04] Adam: That coffee became the mediator for deeper meaningful conversations, and that's how I began every episode, was talking about how coffee was bringing us together, the warmth of just softening or melting the coldest of hearts, and that was what the show was. I had people break down in tears on my show for talking about life and someone shared their pregnancy on my podcast and all these other things that like were just life.

[00:11:25] Adam: It had very little to do about the game of Kama but it was about the people that were in it. And that's what I think people came to really love about the show was that it was more than just a ball and a cup. It was about the people who took pride in this game and joined the community. So coffee was, Much a mediator, and so I wanted to be able to recommend something that could be the perfect mediator, and Onyx was a really good fit.

[00:11:45] Adam: I was gonna say there could have been lots of other opportunities of products that would've been tangential that could have been a good fit. So one product that I wish would do podcast advertising that I advocate for all the time is Ember coffee mugs using one right now, it's an electric mug that's like a sou for your coffee that keeps your coffee at whatever temperature you set.

[00:12:02] Adam: You have an app on your phone, you can set it to 98 degrees and it'll hold it there as long as there's a charge in. So for you and I on a podcast call we might be on here for an hour and by the time we're done, my coffee's cold and I hate that. But with Ember, I get to keep it warm the whole time.

[00:12:16] Adam: What a great like pre-roll and post-roll for a podcast ad if you wanted to do one where you're like, it's the end of the episode. Just had a great conversation with Hector and I'm still drinking this warm coffee outta my whatever. It's whatever you wanna talk about. So tangential like, I love those kinds of product integrations and podcast.

[00:12:33] Hector: Yeah, talk to me more about that. Cause I think I mean obviously you're in that world all the time now trying to match products, brands with shows that have at least some, hope of, carryover or some hope of resonance. Right. But for a. Host who is maybe in your position where you were at the beginning, where they've kind of gotta go out and look for these products.

[00:12:53] Hector: They're not necessarily having these sponsors come, bang down their doors. Is there any not so obvious ways that smaller shows might be able to take advantage of some of these monetization opportunities?

[00:13:02] Adam: So this is truly the look into what I do in when I find new shows and the shows that I wanna sponsor. So I think if you are a small podcaster and you want get the attention of the Better Helps Athletic Greens, the landscapes, these people that are putting millions of dollars into the space.

[00:13:17] Adam: Don't start with them. Start with a proven concept that you know you're gonna be able to fulfill on. So I knew from the get go that Onyx Coffee Lab, if I talked about them on my podcast, I would be able to sell a crap ton of their coffee. And we did selling over $5,000 a month of their coffee through the show.

[00:13:33] Adam: It was awesome. And I was able to use that case study to then leverage that for the other brands like Manscape when I was talking. I could bring that data set to them and say, Hey, look what I've done for this brand. I think we could do this year if I wanted to, et cetera. Take those case studies and then pull them out from there.

[00:13:49] Adam: So I'm actually a really big advocate for smaller podcasts leaning into the affiliate model, not because it's a way to just make sure that you're getting sales or covering some small revenue income. It's actually a way of testing your audience. How much can you sell to your audience? And you can track that because if you're working with Manscaped and Athletic Green, you're not really gonna get a lot of performance data back from them to know if you're actually doing a good or bad job.

[00:14:11] Adam: They're probably just gonna tell you, oh, it didn't work. We're gonna move on. Or they're gonna tell you it worked. Let's re a couple more episodes, but they're not gonna tell you how much it worked or how little did it do, or anything like that. So the more data that you can get, the better. So I like to go, if you're a small podcaster, you should reach out to brands directly that you already have a bit of a connection.

[00:14:31] Adam: That you're hundred percent confident in that you're gonna be successful for cause then you can use that case study to then advocate to landscape advocate, to better help advocate to whatever other big brands are out there. Cause the reason that I say that, I look at the data on Pods or Magellan or whatever you use to see what other sponsorship history you have on your show.

[00:14:50] Adam: If I see that you've been working with, mom and pop store X, Y, Z, and you've been working with them for like a year, and it's an affiliate deal and we can get talking about it, and I know that you.

[00:15:05] Hector: Yeah. I love that idea about testing with the affiliate model. Can you explain to maybe someone who's not doesn't know what that is, how do you explain that concept in a really simplistic way?

[00:15:16] Adam: it's a tell your friend kind of model. and then you get a reward for it. So Hector, I think you should go get an Ember mug, and Hector goes over to the Ember store and says, Hey, I really want to get an Ember mug. And my friend Adam, was the one who told me to come here. Ember then sends me a little check saying, Hey, Hector told us that he heard about you.

[00:15:33] Adam: heard about us through you, here's your percentage of the purchase that Hector made. So if Hector spends a hundred dollars on a number mug, I get $10 of that. That's like the core fundamentals of what an affiliate program are. Some of them are, complicated where they spend over X, Y, Z. You get X, Y, Z in return.

[00:15:49] Adam: But really it's just a referral program at its base level. And so you're recommending products that you use and you love, and if people purchase using a link that you have or a particular code that you have on their online store, you receive a commission or a kickback for those purchases. And typically there's a dashboard on the backend.

[00:16:06] Adam: So a lot of companies use programs like reversion or affiliate or anything like that. You can track your link traffic, so you can see how many people actually click the link under your podcast to go check out the store. How many people ended up purchasing and using your code, how many dollars were spent using your code or using your link. It's a lot of really actionable data that then you can take to a.

[00:16:25] Hector: Is there anything that you found that a host can do to make that. experience better for either the brand or so that if they're an affiliate opportunity how does a host actually, sell without selling? Right. You said that you did a good job of, you know, you sold $5,000 worth of coffee without really selling a whole lot on this show.

[00:16:43] Hector: How does one do that?

[00:16:44] Adam: I think I have to speak from like the point of I had a really privileged opportunity with the brand in the sense that it was an organic fit to my show where coffee was already the mediator, the conversation, we talk about it anyways, even before the sponsor. And so they already knew that I was gonna talk about coffee at the beginning.

[00:17:01] Adam: It was so seamless into the process that when I came around to recommending it and going, Hey, head to onyx coffee lab.com and use code, save 10% off your order today. I've been drinking this one. Highly recommend you check it out if you want something, whatever. I was very recommendation based with it, where I'd offer a recommendation and I'd say, Hey, if you don't know what to buy, shoot me a DM on Instagram and I'll help you make your first purchase or whatever.

[00:17:22] Adam: It's, I was very much an. The other thing too be everywhere with it. I think this is one of the most disappointing things I've seen in the podcast community is this sense of we need to charge the brand for everything. And in some capacity, all the power to you if you can get away with it. But if you just put a little bit of extra sauce on top of what they're paying for, where you do an Instagram story with a swipe up with a link to their website as well, that little bit of extra impression can sometimes be that dial turn that slightly pushes it above performance goals that will then make the brand really stoked, then come back to you and say, wow, you're crushing it.

[00:17:59] Adam: But really part of that influence came from your, I. Maybe you have a link in bio, put the link for that sponsor in there where it's, hey, 10% off. What I also did, I wrote two blogs on my website that were my coffee brewing guides with a link to the website to get the code on or preview for 10% off on OnX doesn't work anymore.

[00:18:16] Adam: So I'm not promoting it here by any means. But nonetheless, I created other avenues for people to find that partnership. because it was an affiliate deal. I knew that at the end of the day, whatever way they came through, I was gonna get paid for it. But if you're doing it on a flat rate deal, put a little extra sauce on top and it'll go.

[00:18:33] Hector: I really like how you talk about connecting the brands know, outside of the podcast because the podcast people are so far away from there from clicking, they're on a jog or they're washing the dishes or whatever it is, right? So, reminding them or finding them outside of the show and, can sometimes bring that back to top of mind and get them to take action.

[00:18:51] Hector: That's huge. looking towards the future? You, spend a lot of time in the world podcast advertising and it seems like things. are shifting or changing? Or is it good or is it bad or, you know, it's like, give us your thoughts and perspectives on kind of where we're at and you know, where things might be heading maybe in the short term or even in the long term.

[00:19:09] Adam: Yeah, I've only really been in the podcast world for about two and a half years now, so my perspective is pretty limited. However, I can speak to what's going on right now and what I'm seeing. this week there was an article put up by Bloomberg kind of talking about. The follow of the podcast world, but maybe the rise of direct response.

[00:19:27] Adam: I dunno if you've seen the article or have kinda been in that conversation. I work predominantly with direct response brands and transparently 2022 was not the best year for direct response brands in general. And for brands in general. I think 2022 was a hard economic year for people I think podcasters felt it with the amount of layoffs that were happening at networks and publishers.

[00:19:47] Adam: I think brands felt it as budgets were tightening and people just weren't purchasing as much. So is it a DR problem? Is it a brand problem? Is it an economy problem? Hard to say entirely. What I can say is there is a bit of a tide turning where direct response is starting to pick up a little bit in performance.

[00:20:02] Adam: Part of it is twofold. One, a lot of the brand awareness brands have kind of pulled out a podcast advertising or reduced their spends and budgets. Was part of the factor of why everything got so inflated in the podcast world? I think a lot of publishers and podcasters started to take in big brand awareness dollars because they could, and it was easy and it was graspable.

[00:20:22] Adam: And as a result of that, the rates got so high that direct response brands couldn't compete in the space anymore. Cause they were measuring performance and it wasn't hitting their goals, they were losing money, et cetera. But the brand awareness brands, they aren't paying attention to those numbers cause they don't have the metrics to track.

[00:20:37] Adam: Can't really track the conversion from McDonald's AD on Joe Rogan's podcast to someone showing up at your local McDonald's. And so they don't know if it's working or not, they just know that people are hearing about them. But the direct response brands were having a really hard time. For most of them.

[00:20:51] Adam: Some did. Well, I think, and we have quite a few clients that did well, other clients that had challenges. But the Q4 of 2022 and even coming into this year, the rates have really come down a lot and made it way more approachable for direct response brands to come in. And that's part of what that Bloomberg article was talking about, where I think the over insurgents and brand awareness in this space that inflated rates and made it unreasonable for DR to compete has come back down to earth a bit, which has made it a.

[00:21:14] Adam: Playable playground for direct response to be back in the space. And I'm really happy about that. Cause I love Dr. Brands. They're my bread and butter. And I really like the energy that they bring to the space. There's more involvement with Dr. In.

[00:21:26] Hector: Yeah. it's actually interesting that you say that the lowering of rates might actually be a good thing in the long term for maybe indie or smaller podcasters, cuz it's encouraging more people to come into the space. More people can come in and play and they're gonna be looking for more, more shows to be able to, work with.

[00:21:42] Adam: Yeah, absolutely.

[00:21:43] Hector: Adam, I'm excited that you reached out. I'm excited that we got a chance to connect. We'll probably have to have you come back for a round two, but as we kind of round out here, I'd love to know if there's a, a show out there or a host, a creator who's wanting to appeal to some of these brands or they wanna make themselves look more appealing.

[00:21:59] Hector: you mentioned having a. And stuff like that. outside of that, are there things that a show can do to make them more appealing to an agency like yours or to some of these brands who are wanting to put some of this money into podcast advertising?

[00:22:11] Adam: So number one, reach out. I actually don't get that much inbound email from podcasters. I get a lot of inbound from podcast networks. But if you're an independent podcaster, I've probably not heard of you because you don't have some sales rep who knows my email and reaching out. So please send me an email or find me on LinkedIn, whatever it is.

[00:22:27] Adam: make it easy to connect is one, two, simplify the process. I'm assuming that the type of podcaster you and I are talking about isn't a 50,000 download per episode podcaster. I think the challenge that smaller podcasters have, and I had this as well. Is that we overcomplicate what it means to advertise on our shows.

[00:22:48] Adam: You know, it's a, Hey, we pay X amount for this, but you get this, this, this, and we're gonna do this, this, this, and this. Really simplify the process It really easy for the brand to just say, yes, it's X amount of dollars for a 62nd spot in the app. And on top of that we'll do a bunch of other things.

[00:23:05] Adam: You can embed that into the cost, however you wanna do it. So on your own, do your Instagram posts on your own, do the social posts, all those things. Our agency to give context to how we work. We only have the purchasing rights for your podcast ads, everything else. Would technically fall to another department at the company or to another agency that they maybe work with.

[00:23:23] Adam: But if it's added value, it can get bulked into the deal. And then it's considered a podcast deal. So make it really simple for me to just say yes to the podcast ad, and you can by all means, do all the other stuff, but simplify it. If you overcomplicate it, it's really easy for me to just go back to the 50,000 download per episode show that is simplifying everything for me, and then just give them the money.

[00:23:43] Adam: So the easier you can make it for me to say yes is gonna go a long.

[00:23:47] Hector: That's interesting. A lot of the advice out there is to try and like stack the offers. You know, you get this and you get this and you get this, and what you're talking about is that's over complicating it. But not only that, but now you're getting into different departments you're getting into, just for lack of a better term, there's more red tape there by actually offering more or put, you know, throwing that into it.

[00:24:06] Adam: It's more red tape and you're prolonging their decision to say yes and I'm gonna be honest, I've met a lot of really lazy people in this industry of marketing and I can be that person and if you overcomplicate it for me, I can just easily say, well, I'm just gonna go find someone else who makes it a lot easier to work with.

[00:24:22] Adam: And go with them, even if you were the better option, because it's gonna work better with you because you're giving me all this extra value. It's just more complicated for me to pay attention to and track. If you make it simpler, it's gonna go better.

[00:24:34] Adam: At least if you're gonna work with brands like Man, better Help, et cetera, the brands that are really invested in this space, I think when you're at large scale, you'll end up working with brand partnership teams where you are gonna do a 5K deal where you're doing 24 podcast episodes in a year, you got six newsletters, you got a big whatever, and it's a big bulk deal.

[00:24:50] Adam: And that's typically with a partnership that's a larger contract. But if you're just doing podcast stuff, keep it simple.

[00:24:57] Hector: Great tips. We connected on LinkedIn, Adam, is there anywhere else that people should go and stay connected with you or where, you mentioned sending 'em an email. I'm sure they'd love to follow up. Where can they do that?

[00:25:05] Adam: Yeah connect with me on LinkedIn. That's probably the place that I check the most. I am on Twitter, but not very active at Adam James McNeil, I believe. And then email is just Adam. It's pretty simple. Put it in the show notes or just connect with me on LinkedIn. Im very friendly, I think. So.

[00:25:28] Hector: Yeah, this has been great. Adam. Thanks for coming on, guys. Go take some action on this and let's make you guys some money. there's no shame in making some money. Podcasts take a lot of time, so might as well uh, get something back for it. All right guys, we'll see you on the next one and thanks for tuning in later y'all.