How Dustin Howes Teaches You to Scale Your Business with Affiliate Marketing

[00:00:03] Hector: Hello and welcome to another episode of the how to scale a business podcast. My name is Hector Santia Esteban and I am your host for today. Our special guest is Mr Dustin Howes. He's an affiliate marketing consultant. He helps affiliate marketers and I love is done it himself for the last maybe decade plus or so.

[00:00:20] Hector: And then now he's actually helping people to go out there and grow their affiliate marketing. Destin, thanks for hanging out with us. Welcome to the show.

[00:00:27] Dustin: Yeah, you got it, man. Man, I love the way you pronounce your name. It is so methodical and elegant. It's a beauty. Dustin Howes doesn't roll off the lips like Hector does. That,

[00:00:41] Hector: my name for a variety of reasons and only recently have started to embrace it as I've had to say it so often, it started because I had 12 letters in my name and growing up. One of my friends, his name was Sam Tan, I had the same amount of letters in my first name than he had in his full name, and I had another last name to keep going.

[00:00:58] Hector: in second grade, when letters are harder to come by, it was a tall task to just get my name on the sheet. so here we are.

[00:01:06] Dustin: That just puts more grit in your body. that was a good lesson.

[00:01:09] Hector: exactly. Does it catch us up? Affiliate marketing is something that Comes up often. if I'm being frank, I don't think enough businesses realize what it is. I think it gets put in a box. And I think there are businesses that see it as something that, Oh, maybe that's what some weird, Internet guys do, or that's something that, maybe some consumer products do or, whatever it is.

[00:01:30] Hector: But I think that's a perhaps misguided or incomplete perspective, but with that being said, the background on how you got here. I mentioned you've been in this industry a little while, catch us up on some of the major points and then fill us in a little bit more about what you're doing now.

[00:01:44] Dustin: Yeah, you got it, man. So affiliate marketing best explained is some websites have traffic and they need to send that traffic somewhere else to earn commissions or sale from it. So you take a good content website like a CNET. And their revenue model is to send traffic to Best Buy to buy the electronics.

[00:02:08] Dustin: And when Best Buy makes a sale, they kick back CNET 10 percent of whatever the product was that they sold. And then CNET pockets that money. And that way. The affiliate themselves doesn't have to create a product. They don't have to ship it out. They don't deal with customer support. They're simply giving traffic that is qualified to the brands that they're working with.

[00:02:33] Dustin: And this is the model of my business. I help companies out there brands. To grow their affiliate channel and the affiliate channel, yes, it has had some negative connotations through the years with shady tactics from people sending traffic in various different ways. But in general, affiliate marketing is making an incredible comeback, and it has a ton of value for a business out there that.

[00:03:03] Dustin: Is incredible. I like to say every company that doesn't have an affiliate program right now and has online sales is missing a huge chunk of opportunity and they could add an additional 20 percent revenue on top of what they're doing today if they do it right.

[00:03:22] Hector: Yeah. I think In its simplest sense, right? That's what you talked about. A lot of media companies are essentially affiliate marketers. I was talking to a good friend the other day and they were talking about in a networking event, they have a reason to meet everybody there because have seven or eight different things that they could offer, refer, or sell something. And so chances are they've got something to sell this person.

[00:03:45] Hector: And so even if it's not perhaps in a, Very direct kind of form where they click here and they click there and they buy that thinking about how businesses might be able to better partner or establish those relationships, in the same way an affiliate might be giving leads or generating sales for somebody else.

[00:04:02] Hector: It's just an avenue that perhaps not enough businesses are pursuing, especially given how connected the world is.

[00:04:08] Dustin: Yes totally true. And think the biggest value that affiliate partners give to brands is a perspective that isn't coming from the horse's mouth. Like they have their own perspective on what this brand is and who they are. And they're giving honest reviews for what this product actually does.

[00:04:29] Dustin: Every product thinks that their product is the greatest thing on earth. But that may not be the truth. And is content that is true to its form and honest to the reader that produces the best. Sales and best lifetime value of customers coming from an outside source, instead of those companies going out and trying to jam traffic into their own website by paying for it.

[00:04:57] Dustin: Now, they're only paying for performance from people that actually want to be on that website organically.

[00:05:04] Hector: Yeah. Are there businesses that you would say, before we get into what business might be, this might be great for, or, might be better suited for, are there ones that you say, you know what? Maybe this is not the route or there's other routes that you might pursue if you're in this type of industry or have this type of business.

[00:05:22] Dustin: great question. There's two that I really don't take on as clients for the most part. First is services. I don't see services having a good affiliate marketing reach because referral marketing Is a much better fit for services that are doing any kind of agency work, for example, not a great fit it.

[00:05:43] Dustin: You can kick back some money to people that refer you via an email or something like that matter. But scaling up on the affiliate space, probably not a good idea. And then the second one is anything that is not. Global or at least national level. So what I mean by that, if you have a product that is just local to your city that you're in, probably not a very good affiliate program candidate.

[00:06:10] Hector: Yeah. in the world that you're coming from,what's probably nice about it is that it's very, I would imagine analytics driven. it's black and the white in the sense of like the numbers dictate what you do.

[00:06:20] Hector: Like what works is what. The numbers say work. And so I think that at least for me is encouraging. is that incorrect? Or would you say there is some element to that.

[00:06:30] Dustin: there is a, a great piece of the element is the analytical portion of this. Let's take for example, your website conversion rate. Let's say an average e commerce site is doing and converting very well at, let's say, 3%. We can go out and find affiliates that are bringing high quality traffic that might produce at a 5 percent conversion rate.

[00:06:54] Dustin: If we find more like that. We can replicate that and we can bring in higher quality traffic that is ready to buy and in some kind of direct response situation. And on the other side of that, you might have affiliates come into your program that are converting at less than 1%, just driving garbage quality through like email spamming or something of that nature that doesn't have.

[00:07:19] Dustin: Super qualified traffic, but they still make some sales and they have a place in your program as well, butthey are not nearly as powerful of partner as the ones that are converting at a higher rate. In that sense, analytical is absolutely essential for you to be reviewing which websites are converting best and to partner up with them and to replicate them in that sense.

[00:07:44] Dustin: But. Overall, in general, this is an extremely relationship based partnership. So the partners that are bringing the traffic, the ones that are the top 10 producers in your program, you should have very good standing with them. You should have phone calls with them. You should be best friends with these folks, or whoever's running the affiliate program should be catering to their every needs so that they can increase their traffic over time.

[00:08:13] Hector: you say then that affiliate marketing is actually a relationships business, or if I'm a business and I want to implement a program like this. Does it change the business that I'm in or is it merely an extension out of it? Or how might you look at something like that?

[00:08:25] Dustin: iT's going to change it for the better. I will guarantee it. What happens when you get ahold of a good program that's doing okay, but it's not thriving. You can go in and find the affiliates that are really making the difference right now. And just talk to them. And the more you talk to them you ask them questions like, Hey, what are we missing here?

[00:08:46] Dustin: What are our competitors doing better? What landing pages would you be more interested in testing? What is there any banners or any other content that I can give to you that would be helpful? And having you send more traffic, what more can we do together? These are all questions that affiliates are happy to answer if they're making money with you.

[00:09:07] Dustin: And they're just going to make your business better. They might have a really good idea on a landing page that might convert a whole lot better than anything you have right now. These are digital marketers that are pros in their field and have seen it from other brands. And it is just such a smart idea to go out and pick their brain as much as possible.

[00:09:26] Hector: Yeah, this is so good we get back from break desk want to talk about how a business might get started or what maybe what the big steps are to help them see where the goalposts might be the steps that are there. And so we're gonna do that right when we get back from break.

[00:09:40] Dustin:

[00:09:42] Hector: Hey, y'all. Today's episode is brought to you by Amplify Media and we are a content and podcast product. Well, We like to think of ourselves as genius makers because chances are, if you listen to this, you have a passion, a purpose, a mission, a message, a product, something that you want to get out to the world.

[00:09:54] Hector: But don't necessarily have the time, the team or the tech skills to be able to get it out there. That's where we can help go to amplify media. com. That's a M P L a F Y media. com. You can also check the show notes for info. And with that, let's get back to today's episode. Dustin. So if someone is still with us right now, they're probably thinking, how might I get this going?

[00:10:15] Hector: Cause this sounds great. What's awesome is that you talked about bringing a different perspective and a big trend in business, right? Is the user generated content. And that's a lot of What you're talking about is building off of something like that. And so you can get that other perspective, I think it's also helpful just to have an army of people also out there promoting your stuff, and to really have people whose interests are aligned with yours to go out there and share your.

[00:10:41] Hector: You're usually your product whatever it is that, you're promoting. But how do we do that? do we start? Do we need to clear, if I were to go into my dining room right now, it's a mess because the kids have Play Doh there's maybe a hot dog. Who knows what's there.

[00:10:55] Hector: Do I need to sweep off the whole table or can I get started? With what I've got or take us to that place.

[00:11:02] Dustin: Yeah my answer is absolutely not like you don't have to A starting point for an affiliate program is stacking on to what you have existing. I like to say if you're on an existing affiliate program and the tracking is working, do not move that program unless there's something absolutely glaring reason that you need to move to a different platform, because that's a lot of busy work.

[00:11:26] Dustin: no other platform is going to magically put affiliates into your program. That takes hard work and dedication. And that's exactly what I teach in my course is going out there making lists of ideal partner personas finding the websites that are going to make a difference in your affiliate program.

[00:11:46] Dustin: And then going out and finding the right contact information for each one of those companies. The greatest part about this whole concept is you're building an army of salesmen that are working off of a commission basis. So rather than paying for traffic, like you are probably accustomed with Google or Facebook affiliate marketing is a upfront investment.

[00:12:10] Dustin: It is a, an investment of time and effort to get partners into the program. And then once this thing is humming in 12 months, you have things that are coming in automatically that you only pay for if you actually make a sale.

[00:12:24] Hector: Yeah. we've got the initiative. Okay. Do I go out and just start finding people? Is it, do I need to create an incentive program? Once I've made that decision, is there an order of operations that you found is best to work? That might, yeah. Save people some time or

[00:12:41] Dustin: Oh, Great question. And the first thing you want to do is,not create this. On your own if you don't know anything about affiliate marketing, do not try to make your own affiliate program. This is exactly why I created my course. It's a do it yourself solution that will give you step by step on how to create the strategy that is going to make a successful affiliate program.

[00:13:05] Dustin: Then I tell you all about the technology that would be a good fit for you and your program, and then you go out and start executing the plan and you execute that plan by either taking somebody internally, hiring them and training them in this kind of capacity, or you go out and hire an agency to go and do this kind of work for you.

[00:13:29] Dustin: Now my course is a do it yourself solution, but there are a lot of agencies and consultants out there that can create the strategy for you and do all these steps and even run the program for you and be successful, but it is really hard for you to find the right people for your vertical but it really doesn't matter what vertical it is.

[00:13:52] Dustin: There are certain people that thrive in certain niches that would be a better fit than others.

[00:13:59] Hector: Yeah. Get help, get support, and then it seems like the first step is the building of it. And then, you said something which I think, I just want to give a caveat to the listeners, and maybe you meant it said, you said, you'll get the setup in a year, you said, only be paying for, what you're getting sales from what I don't want people to equate that to is that all of a sudden I set this up now.

[00:14:22] Hector: And in 12 months, it doesn't require any work. I don't want listeners to leave that and think, oh, it's a set it and forget it type thing. or maybe it is, but can you speak to that?

[00:14:32] Dustin: Yeah. Excellent point. I'm glad you brought that up because it is not a set it and forget it channel. You will create the affiliate program and. If you want it to hum at full capacity you will need somebody dedicated to this channel full time. if not two or three people, I've been on, I've been at companies where we had a team of eight working on the affiliate channel and the portfolio of affiliate partners you needed to focus on were these.

[00:15:00] Dustin: And it was in these categories. The growth potential of this platform. Of this channel in itself are absolutely huge. And if you let it sit and rot, it will absolutely do that. But my point of that whole thing is you cannot turn on affiliate marketing today and get sales. It is going to take hard work to get your first few affiliates in there.

[00:15:23] Dustin: It's going to take even harder work to get good set of a hundred that are sales active. And if you're doing all the steps you put all the strategy in place, you hire the employee that is an absolute go getter and goes and recruits good affiliates that are going to make a difference in the program.

[00:15:40] Dustin: In three months, you should be starting to see sales come in and be profitable with your affiliate channel. And in six months, this thing should be running at full force and giving you five to 10 percent of your revenue. And if you continue down that road and continue to grow and find more partners and your brand gets out there even more by month 12, you should have 20 percent of your revenue coming through your affiliate channel.

[00:16:08] Dustin: And you're only going to want to expand on there because the more manpower you put. In this channel, the more it can produce.

[00:16:16] Hector: Yeah great opportunity, especially given the internet where it's going, how connected things are social media. It's just getting more. I don't want to say more and more easier because that's not very grammatical. my first grade teacher, Miss Plotnick would not not be happy, but it's getting easier for her.

[00:16:31] Hector: The regular person to become an asset to a business in the sense that everyday moms or everyday people are just right. people that all of a sudden we're just consumers. Those people can actually be. Be affiliates and be your biggest promoters and be, be huge drivers of business in a world where, tick tocks and reels and social media posts.

[00:16:54] Hector: Everybody seems to be, I don't want to say everybody's going viral but, that gate has opened to more than just your typical influencers or celebrities.

[00:17:02] Dustin: And it is totally based on how much they want it, how hungry they are to go out there and create great content for brands and be an evangelist of products. And it's easier than ever for influencers to get started. And the best day ever to be an affiliate marketer. Is today without a question, like if you would have got started 10 years ago, that would have been the best day, but you don't have that option.

[00:17:31] Dustin: You can't turn change back time. Today is the best day for you to get started. And if you have any kind of history in digital marketing or no history for that matter, it really doesn't matter as long as you have the drive to go and try to quit your job and find a niece that you can make money with then the sky's the limit.

[00:17:51] Hector: Yeah. Any last Want to get your socials? We got connected on LinkedIn. I just followed you on Instagram too. So there's variety of places. You have the show. You got a podcast that you host. Anything else that needs to be said, Dustin, that hasn't been said today?

[00:18:04] Dustin: I would say my biggest lessons in life come from failure especially as an affiliate manager. And they don't come cheap. I created my own online course five years ago to teach general public how to create an affiliate program on your own. And I have gone through a lot of failures and a lot of money spent trying to find the right traffic and the right audience for this course and what I'm doing.

[00:18:34] Dustin: And. All of those failures made me a bigger and better digital marketer from what I'm doing today. And I've always been hungry. I've always had that drive and I'm always continuing to get better. So as long as you learn from the failures that you have, especially as an affiliate manager, which is.

[00:18:52] Dustin: It's super important because if you get a 20 percent response rate to some of your outreach and recruitment, then you're doing a really good job and you have to accept that failure is going to happen and just deal with it and learn from it. And I can't emphasize enough of humbled in this role, no matter how far in your career you are.

[00:19:16] Dustin: It's what you do after that makes the difference.

[00:19:18] Hector: Great stuff. Where's the best place to find out about all this, Dustin?

[00:19:22] Dustin: You can go to performancemarketingmanager. com to go check out my course. I give away 15 minutes of my time to anybody that needs more information on affiliate program help. If I'm not the right person to help you, I will point you in the right direction. So go to dustinhowes. com slash pod 15 and grab some time on my calendar.

[00:19:45] Hector: Go do it, y'all. We appreciate it as always for sticking with us today. If you got any value out of today, which I'm sure you did, we would love rating or review wherever you get your podcasts. And if you know someone who's in the midst of scaling a business or thinking about starting their affiliate program, send them this episode and let's grow the tribe together.

[00:20:02] Hector: But thanks again for being part of the family. We'll see you on the next one. Later y'all.