How Danielle Bornowski's Storytelling Strategies Can Revolutionize Your Business’ Messaging

[00:00:03] Hector: Hello and welcome to another episode of the how to scale a business podcast. My name is Hector Santhia step on, and I am your host for today. I'm merely your guide though. as I'm just the one with the questions here, learning alongside you and our special guest is Danielle Bornowski.

[00:00:18] Hector: She is a, ah, she's more than this. Will get into it, maybe the simplest is a, branding and positioning. Let's call it expert, if you will, because I don't know what else to other title, but someone who really helps businesses to get started, and get off to the right foot and have the right plan strategy.

[00:00:36] Hector: And so we're gonna talk about the things that will get you going in the right direction. But Danielle, thanks for hanging out with us today.

[00:00:43] Danielle: Yeah. Thanks for having me today.

[00:00:45] Hector: I think you have a really interesting story, so I don't know, I'll just let you tee it up, but what you do with your clients from the marketing perspective to the branding, to how you implement it, everything is really aligned.

[00:00:58] Hector: And I think that that's sort of the problem that a lot of businesses get to when they kind of get to this sort of scaling aspect is things work. It's this Frankenstein esque sort of. monster that they've built and also the things that got them to, that stage often aren't sustainable to get them to the next.

[00:01:22] Hector: And, and I think that you're kind of the antidote to that. So catch us up on, on kind of how you got here and then a little bit about what you do with your clients as well.

[00:01:31] Danielle: Sure. So I started my career with the limiting belief that I would always be poor because I thought I'd always be in the nonprofit world. so I went through college, like with the nonprofit lens and how do I do this if I don't have a budget and all, just all of that. And I did, I went into nonprofit.

[00:01:50] Danielle: I was the communications director for nonprofit and bounced around. well, that sounds a little flighty. Yeah. I worked at a couple of different nonprofit organizations, and, a few years ago, I was sitting in church one day and I just had felt this calling to quit my job. and so we got in the car after church and I looked at my husband and I was like, I'm going to put in my notice tomorrow.

[00:02:08] Danielle: And he was like, Okay. And I was like, what are we going to do? And he's I have no idea. I've always been in the marketing side of things. And so we were like, I was like, I'll just freelance for a little while and just see what happens and where that takes us. And the freelancing never even really ended up being freelancing.

[00:02:23] Danielle: It turned into a business really quickly. And it was just somebody who was like, I need help with my marketing that we knew. And then he introduced me to someone who introduced me to somebody. And, so here we are, almost five years to the day of my first day of, I don't know what I'm doing, but I don't have a full time paid job.

[00:02:40] Danielle: And what I have found is that people need help translating marketing. there are so many marketing gurus out there. There's so many advice and they're just trying to focus Transcribed On their business and stay afloat. And so it's what am I supposed to do? What's the right thing? Because there's a million pieces of advice that they're out there.

[00:02:57] Danielle: And I don't know which one works for me. And so that's kind of where I, where I help my clients. I zoom out, do that 30, 000 foot view of their business of one, where they're trying to go, where they are, and then what the steps in between. And so it's slowing things down, taking the pace a little bit and saying, okay, so what's one thing we can do.

[00:03:16] Danielle: Okay. Now what's the next thing? What We can do what's the next thing and then it snowballs into this huge strategy that they never even knew that they were building, which was intimidating to begin with. I need a marketing strategy. Oh my God, what do I do? but it's oh wait, we're just gonna do this one thing.

[00:03:28] Danielle: One thing. Oh, by the way, here's your strategy. and then they're able to just take it and just launch. And the sky's the limit at that point.

[00:03:35] Hector: Yeah, it reminds me of two things that I come across as a business owner. And the first is that you are oftentimes like, you're too in the weeds, to see the, I don't know, whatever the analogy is, right? You're too stuck in the forest and caught up in the trees to see.

[00:03:49] Hector: I don't know. Someone will save me on the online and be yelling into their screen like this is the correct, saying, but but you get what I'm where I'm going with it. And then the second thing that tends to happen is that I find that if you don't have that plan, there's so much time spent trying to figure out what is The next step.

[00:04:08] Hector: And and if you, the moments where where you do have that clear action strategy, you're just so much more efficient and effective and you're able to move. I don't know. There's just a difference in in speed in which you can move.

[00:04:22] Danielle: Yeah. Those are two really critical things. And one of the things that I get a lot of feedback from my clients on is that I help them make a decision. It's not that they're not capable of doing these things. It's not that they don't have the vision or the skill set or any of those things. It's just making that decision, like having that confidence, having somebody else.

[00:04:40] Danielle: I mean, as a solopreneur, Okay. Life just feels lonely, right? , does anybody understand what I'm going through? I feel like I'm screaming into the void. And even when you start to build a team of, five or six or seven people, it's still those people, they're not as invested in your business as you, they're not.

[00:04:56] Danielle: interested in making those really important decisions like you are. And so you feel a little bit alone. And, that's one of the cool things that I get to do is come alongside people, make sure that they don't feel alone, make sure they feel confident in the decisions and, and think through. So like to the point you're making, clear off the weeds and, and make a clear and informed decision.

[00:05:15] Danielle: so a super fun process. It's a fun thing to, to be a part of. And, I just get to be part of people's growth and seeing them realize their dreams, which is incredible. I love it.

[00:05:27] Hector: Yeah, I think another issue that I'd imagine a lot of business owners run into is that it can seem too complex or it can seem to like it's going to require too much or oh, Yeah. This marketing person, she's going to come in and we're going to have a new website, like,all of these things that a business owner has to do.

[00:05:45] Hector: And on top of, just maintaining or just running the business as it is. I think that you have a kind of a different sort of approach to looking at it. can you share how you sort of help business owners sort through that complexity or to your point, make one decision at a time that sort of snowballs on top of each other?

[00:06:05] Danielle: Yeah, for sure. So I believe that every business needs four things in their kind of marketing sales strategy. And at the basic level, when you're a solopreneur and you quit your job yesterday, and you're just starting out, you still need these four things. It's going to, they're going to look very different than When you're scaling seven figures and you've got a huge team, but those four, there are four critical things, and that will continue to guide you as you're going through your growth and your process.

[00:06:32] Danielle: So the first thing that you need is a clear message. I'm a certified story brand guide. I live and die by the words that we talk about business and how we connect to our customers. And so if you can't talk in a clear way about the problem, your customers experience, the solution that you provide for that.

[00:06:50] Danielle: And the success, what life looks like on the other side of doing business with you, nothing else matters. you can have a website, you can have a legion. All of those things don't matter. And every piece of your marketing builds on that communication strategy. Those words that how you talk about your business.

[00:07:06] Hector: If I could just jump in there , and expand on number one, I think that some listeners might be going, well, I already did that, or it's too late. And I think that there's that process can, can happen at, at almost any stage of the business. And especially once someone starts to figure some things out,there's so much market feedback and research and insights that you get that, it, at least I look at it sort of as an iterative process.

[00:07:32] Hector: , is that do you look at it similarly,in terms of the messaging that happens for a company?

[00:07:38] Danielle: Oh, yes. This is an iterative process. I can't tell you how many times I've changed my messaging. My one liner. I was on a call with a coaching client this morning and was telling him about, he, I think he was, he was worried about picking the exact right words. And I said, well, Just pick one of these two and try it for a little while.

[00:07:56] Danielle: And if people look kind of confused, then you go, okay, let's try the other one and see how it works. And it also you, you can change it based on your situation and your audience. So I have a beautiful one liner that I like to use at networking events. And I was telling this guy this morning, I was like, I was in a crowded room one time.

[00:08:14] Danielle: And we're all going around as the acoustics were terrible or a lot of people and we were all doing introductions and I knew nobody was going to hardly be able to hear what I had to say or, even hear all of the nuances of my beautiful, well practiced, and rehearsed one liner and you know what I did, I stood up and I yelled, marketing sucks.

[00:08:31] Danielle: I love marketing. I do marketing. My name's Danielle. And that, that was it. And. Almost everybody in that room wanted to come talk to me at the end of the night,when we had the, the one on one, because, I catered my message to where I was and what people like the situation. And so the problem was marketing sucks.

[00:08:48] Danielle: The solution is I do marketing and hey, come find me and talk to me. and so it is an iterative process. Environmentally, but also as you go through, you add products, you add services, you remove things, you really hone in on your niche or your audience. this is an ever evolving. This is something you write in pencil and you never etch in stone.

[00:09:06] Hector: What's the second one?

[00:09:08] Danielle: You ready for the 2nd 1 2nd 1 is that you have to have a lead generator. So most people jump to creating social media. Accounts when they start a business like, I need Facebook, I need Instagram. I need LinkedIn. But here's the thing, this is not new information probably to anybody in this audience. You don't own your followers on social media.

[00:09:27] Danielle: That is borrowed real estate. And so you have to have to, have a way outside of social media to connect with your, audience. And the way that you do that is with the lead generator. And so again, at the basic level, when people are just starting out, the lead gen is usually a downloadable PD, it's free to create, it's create free.

[00:09:45] Danielle: to put out there. and then the like advanced level, what I love to see people get to is a quiz. People love self discovery. They love to get to know themselves and learn something about themselves. And so your lead generator starts pretty basic and then can get super advanced, like a quiz. so that's the second thing is, is a way to contact your people.

[00:10:06] Hector: Yeah, I think a lot of the people that are listening, they might be thinking, well, yeah, that sounds great, Danielle, but what do I make a quiz about? Or, I have a insert boring business here, right where they are, In the industrial side or commercial development or, things where they traditionally don't think of themselves as these sexy internet market.

[00:10:30] Hector: Like, how do you help someone like that to find something , that are going to generate leads for them or that's going to get interest from their prospects?

[00:10:39] Danielle: There are so many ways to be creative with this process and sometimes that's how a lot of times that's how it sets you apart in the market is when you do something that's either boring or unsexy or similar to a lot of other people and finding a way to, to be pithy or clever. I have chickens.

[00:10:55] Danielle: I live out in the country. I have chickens and, I have created marketing personalities or marketing, like types of marketing people based on my chickens personalities, has nothing per se to do with marketing, but it's a way like, are you a Doris or are you a Dorothy? Are you, are you a fancy or creamsicle?

[00:11:11] Danielle: So there are lots of ways you can do that. sometimes it starts with thinking about what are your frequently asked questions? What are the questions that people are asking the most? And then how could we put a name or a concept or a title to that kind of answer or response or the kind of buyer that you have, or the kind of investor that you're working with?

[00:11:31] Danielle: so there are fun ways to put some creative spin on it. Can be a slower process sometimes, yeah, to kind of, again, zoom out a little bit and think about how you can make it fun and creative, but it's possible in any industry.

[00:11:44] Hector: Yeah, it reminds me of a lot of our, listeners, they provide services and a lot of those services. There's so much expertise built into those services where they're doing them a specific way or for a certain reason or for a specific person. And a lot of times they're the only ones that understand it and so bringing what you're talking about bringing some language or giving it a, a name or something like that all of a sudden helps it become a lot more accessible for someone to understand and then also to see how it's going to benefit them.

[00:12:17] Hector: In their business or, however that service actually helps the consumer, they're able to, to visualize that a little bit easier cause you brought a name to it.

[00:12:28] Danielle: Yeah, or like, what's the best insert type of your product or service here? So let's say you have a fencing contractor. Take a quiz to find the best fence ,for your style. One of the questions is going to be, do you spend a lot of time in your backyard? If the answer is yes, then probably we're going to recommend more of a privacy fence because we don't want people looking in your backyard seeing you.

[00:12:49] Danielle: Are you trendy and fashionable? Probably going to put you in with an ornamental sense. So there are, there really are ways of like what type of. insert type of product are you, it's probably like the most basic and easiest you can do.

[00:13:03] Hector: Yeah. That's really cool. Do the, as we're moving into the third one, is there some sort of hierarchical or order of operations to the four, or is it kind of on a case by case basis that,they, they take some priority.

[00:13:18] Danielle: That's a great question. yes and no. the first two I think are pretty critical. How you talk about it affects everything else. So I always say messaging first, lead, generally lead generator. I like to have second because that, as you're collecting email addresses or phone numbers or what have you,, that's a marathon, not a sprint, right?

[00:13:36] Danielle: Like you're going to have to nurture that audience. and so the sooner you start collecting that information, the sooner you can start nurturing to have, that sales cycle. so those two are pretty critical up front. , the third and fourth can be, it's kind of a chicken and egg. It just depends on what your priority is or what your preferences and what you've got in place already.

[00:13:54] Hector: Let's get into the third and fourth one.

[00:13:56] Danielle: Okay, so third and fourth. the third one is a nurture campaign or a nurture plan. so how are you going to nurture this audience now that you've collected their contact information? And again, as we think about zooming out and putting the whole picture in place,this is, this is How you're doing things on social media.

[00:14:14] Danielle: How are you engaging with your audience in the feed and your dms? This is having an email list. What are you sending out to them? That's valuable content. and in exchange for having this, this important and intimate thing like their email address. , if you're an in person or service,brick and mortar location, your nurture strategy plays in there with networking events and things like that.

[00:14:36] Danielle: the fourth thing is a sales strategy. So you can have all of these things in place, but if you don't ask people for the sales and they're not going to buy from you, so you've got to have a plan in place for how are you, how are you asking them? How are you saying this is, Hey, I we've, we've connected, me, you like me, you trust me.

[00:14:52] Danielle: And now you're going to have to, I have to ask you for your business. so while you would think that something like, let's say something as easy as like a plumber, right? Like a plumber shouldn't even have to ask people for a business, but they do. You want to be in this nurture strategy, Keeping, staying top of mind for people so that when they are ready for a plumber, they don't go to Google.

[00:15:13] Danielle: They come to you because you have been engaging with them and nurturing the relationship. So, every business has to ask, and people hate asking. It's salesy and icky. but when you've developed that relationship and that rapport, it makes it really easy. It's not Hey, pay my bills and give me money.

[00:15:28] Danielle: It's, Hey, you have this problem. I have the solution. I'd love to help you with that. Are you ready to get started? and that's a very different conversation than just like getting pinged with an ad or a DM like, Hey, I offer these services. Click here to schedule a link. I'm like, Whoa, whoa. It's like asking me to marry you before we've even been on a date.

[00:15:46] Danielle: and so that fills in nurture. Go, they go hand in hand. and some people like, Okay. If your lead generator is really teeing up for a sales thing, you can follow that up with a sales campaign for some people. It's like, just want to warm you up. It's a bigger ticket item. We're going to put you into nurture strategy first and then ask you for sales.

[00:16:03] Hector: Do you have any favorite ways, whether it's like you say, kind of environmentally, so, whether that's through the platform or contextually, we send it this way in terms of asking for the sale or, even like messaging wise, as far as, the way that you worded it, the way that you say it, that either, I don't know, is, is a personal favorite or that you find is particularly effective.

[00:16:26] Danielle: It's a great question. And I actually, we could go into a whole nother podcast about this. so again, it goes back to your messaging. So there are definitely resources where you pull all of your messaging together and send one really solid sales email. if you've got somebody who's. Connected and needs to like, hasn't ever committed.

[00:16:44] Danielle: We've got a great, bringing the, the story brand formula in kind of, like a sales script, right? bring that together. but if it's just generally somebody on your audience, you think about all of the reasons it's almost kind of backwards. You think about all of the reasons that they would say no.

[00:16:59] Danielle: And you counteract those. And then it's kind of like the Alex Hermosi principle, make it so good that they would be stupid to say no. Right. So we think about overcoming objections, like what objections are they going to have? Usually that's around price and, time. So how do you overcome that?

[00:17:16] Danielle: And of course, using case studies or testimonials are a great, great way to do that. another email kind of part about sales sequence would be,paradigm shift. So like you think this about X, Y and Z, the product or the industry or the service, but here's what it actually is like. And so you're making that adjustment for them.

[00:17:33] Danielle: It's kind of setting the record straight if there's any like misconceptions out there. and so you're just thinking about all of the reasons people would say no. And you send a series of emails to it. to give them, to essentially invalidate those concerns. And then you follow that up with a, all right, here we go.

[00:17:50] Danielle: This is the, solution. Are you in? And they're going to say, yes.

[00:17:53] Hector: My very first job out of high school was, Sales job, a direct sales job. And I'd walk into a middle aged woman's home with my bag of sales stuff and try and get their credit card number before I left. And so we would, compress all of that into 45 minutes. What I love about what you're doing is that you can really break it down and.

[00:18:16] Hector: I would imagine that technology, a lot of this can be automated. Is there any mistakes that you see people make when it comes to these two parts to the nurture and the ask part whether it's a, big glaring sort of mistake and it's like a huge train wrecks or don't do this because it could result in this.

[00:18:33] Hector: Or is there, anything where, Like small adjustments, you notice that they, they just needed to change this and then all of a sudden things started to happen.

[00:18:42] Danielle: Yeah. That's a really great question. So two things come to mind. The first thing is just simply a confidence thing. So everybody is uncomfortable with selling and it makes them squirm. And so it makes us like dance off of it a little bit or, offer too many options. Like talking to somebody today, we were going through his sales script and he's like, if you're interested, then book a call.

[00:19:08] Danielle: And I was like, no. No, no, they're interested. Here we are. Don't give them an out. click here to schedule a column, to get a call on my calendar. Don't give them a reason to say no, you know, no. if they've gotten that far in the process, if they're ready, if they really are in the right time and place and they're going to say yes, so don't give them a potential out.

[00:19:26] Danielle: So that's the first thing. Is, , not being direct and assertive enough. Like, are you interested? Like, are you in? Are you ready? Give them something to say yes or no to, not to think about. , and then the other thing, kind of the other part of the confidence piece , Is just owning it.

[00:19:40] Danielle: You are the expert and you are the perfect person in this industry to be doing whatever it is that you do. And we can doubt ourselves a lot when there's money on the line or riding on it, or we're just not comfortable with the sales process. But you have to own it. I hate fake it till you make it, but like live it man.

[00:19:59] Danielle: Like you are here for a reason. You are carrying out your purpose. And if you have prospected somebody in there, in your pipeline, and they're ready, go for it, tell them that you can help them and be really bold and confident in that. And if it's not the right time, then they'll say it's not the right time, but they still like you.

[00:20:15] Danielle: And they'll stay in your pipeline until it is the right time. And if it's, if they're not right for you, then they get to unsubscribe and opt out and leave. And then it's one less. I don't know, like pain in the ass client that you don't have to deal with, right? let them opt out, if they're not the right fit for you.

[00:20:30] Danielle: So, let them, put that energy out and let them pick it up if they're receiving it. or if they're into it, and then it's a great fit. So just own that you are great at this.

[00:20:38] Hector: Yeah, I think this is really great. And my, last ish question I've got, at least the last topic that I'm curious to get your thoughts on is, you mentioned that story brand is a big part of what you do. If you could, for people who are, saying to themselves, like what's story brand, it sounds, it sounds like a Disney sort of ride,what does that look like?

[00:20:58] Hector: And, , what's, Danielle's sort of spin on how you're incorporating those elements into even, the nurture and the ask, because, we talked about it at the beginning, but I think that you had sort of hinted, if not said it explicitly that these things, carry on throughout, Your whole sales process and then, even beyond that in, terms of your fulfillment and delivery.

[00:21:22] Hector: But , how can they better understand that if, if they wanted to take the last few minutes and, and sort of implement some of those things into their nurture and, and ask, sequences.

[00:21:33] Danielle: Yeah. So Storybrand is a seven part communications framework. And what it does is it places you as the guide in the journey and your customer as the hero. So if you think about how a movie is written, right? You've got a main character. They're the hero. They have a guide somewhere throughout the movie that's helping them overcome the challenges.

[00:21:55] Danielle: to Get the girl to win the prize to do whatever it is, have success at the end of the movie. And so the, story brand framework and principle that we, just live in everything that we do is thinking about putting the customer first. So when we are running a business and trying to grow our businesses, it's really easy for us to just lead with the selfish.

[00:22:16] Danielle: which, I mean, that sounds judgmental and I don't mean it in that way, but we, we are selfish, right? We're trying to grow a business. We're trying to reach our goals. We're trying to, to do all these things and impact the world. So it's easy to think about what we want to push on people. Like I can do this for you.

[00:22:28] Danielle: I can do this for you. I can do this for you. but we as humans are bombarded with, I don't even know the latest number, something like 60, 000 messages a day. And so if you think about being on the receiving end of all of these messages. You don't want to be just noise in the 60, 000 messages. And the way that you stand out is , by putting your, \, person, your customer first and thinking about how they need to receive things, where they're stuck, what their challenges are.

[00:22:56] Danielle: and you speak to that. So you're showing that you, it's not trying to push a sales strategy. You are creating that, that empathy and, developing an authority with them that know, and trust factor. So that, they don't feel like they're being sold to, they feel like they've got somebody who's in their court on their side and helping them to overcome a problem.

[00:23:16] Danielle: So when I'm talking to people, I'm not trying to pay my own bills or grow my business. I'm trying to help them be successful. and, and that comes across. And so it's a very authentic and genuine way of connecting with people, putting them first and offering a whole lot of value instead of a whole lot of sales.

[00:23:34] Danielle: and we talk about that all of the time. What does my person, what does my audience need to hear right now? Not what am I trying to tell them? and then how do we bring our messaging around that?

[00:23:43] Hector: Yeah, that's great. And I think that once again, we can all stand to do that at any stage of the business. I got one more question for you, Danielle. But before we do that, if people want to get more connected with you, go deeper in your world. find out what you're up to. Where's the best place to go for that?

[00:24:00] Danielle: Yeah. So my favorite place to hang out is LinkedIn. So I am Danielle Pornowski and you just spell it phonetically. So bore now ski. B O R N O W S K I. also love to hang out with my folks on Instagram and I'm just at DQB Strategies.

[00:24:17] Hector: Cool. Well, I appreciate that. We'll link that up in the show notes as well. last question here, Danielle, in your opinion, what is the Secret to scaling a business.

[00:24:29] Danielle: The secret to scaling a business is having a community around you. I think that sometimes it's the community people you're growing within your The folks that you're trying to serve because you can really be the best your best self in that moment but having a community around you of peers that encourages you that challenges you that inspires you and motivates you that has been The biggest thing that I've seen that's shown me success.

[00:24:52] Danielle: If I'm not in the community, I feel myself slumping. If I'm in a community, I am soaring and getting, doing better every day.

[00:24:59] Hector: it really makes a difference. And Danielle and I are in a community that brought us here together. So I want to thank you, Danielle, for hanging out. This was a fantastically insightful conversation. And for all of you listeners that stuck around with us, we appreciate you being here. We would be forever grateful for a rating or review wherever you get your podcast.

[00:25:18] Hector: And if you know someone who needs to hear this, someone who's in the midst of scaling their business, or even someone who's getting started with it. I hit that share button, send them the episode, let them know you were thinking about them, but go get connected with Danielle and myself on LinkedIn if you're not already.

[00:25:32] Hector: But, as always, we appreciate you hanging out and we'll see you on the next one. Later, y'all.