How Barbara Jones Helps Women Entrepreneurs Raise Millions for Their Businesses

[00:00:03] Hector: Hello, and welcome to another episode of the How to Scale a Business Podcast. My name is Hector San Esteban, and I am your host for today, our special guest is Dr. Laney Jones, She's a clinical psychologist and, , also the founder and owner of HBL Advisory Group. So, , Laney, thank you for spending some time with us today.

[00:00:20] Lani: Thanks for the invite, Hector, and I'm looking forward to our conversation.

[00:00:24] Hector: You are making an interesting sort of transition. , You know, a lot of people. Kind of go from corporate to, you know, the entrepreneur world. I don't know if necessarily know if you would consider yourself that, but it seems like you're definitely changing world or you're shifting a little bit. I know you've kind of gone through that.

[00:00:43] Hector: , Talk to us about some of your important steps along the journey, and then I would love to know a little bit about how and what you're doing with your clients today.

[00:00:52] Lani: So I did start my career in corporate healthcare. , So have been in that role. Thought I never wanted the business side of things. I just wanted to do my clinical work. I didn't wanna deal with, I. Tax codes and, you know, payroll and employees and all of that. , But found myself in that corporate environment burnout pretty quickly.

[00:01:15] Lani: , And so decided, okay, well we gotta go figure this out. And so made the transition to a private practice and that's where I came to love business and just all the opportunities it brings, even on the really challenging days or figuring out those tax codes or whatnot It was like, okay, well this is more than just an income.

[00:01:36] Lani: It's an opportunity to really create something. , And so my latest transition then has been from the clinical emphasis on the work into how do I merge those psych skills into the leadership and business spheres. And so now I've made that transition, , to working with entrepreneurs, executives. Doing the one-to-one coaching, , working with leadership teams, doing workshops, trainings, all talking thanks people.

[00:02:05] Lani: , Because some business owners are like, well, that's just like corporate fluff or employee wellness. Or we give them like a stress ball or something and they're fine. But then we start talking numbers. And actually these things of communication, employee turnover, retention rates, all of that actually impacts your bottom line.

[00:02:25] Lani: So if for no other reason, you should care about your employees 'cause it impacts your bottom line.

[00:02:31] Hector: Yeah. Early on in my entrepreneurship journey, I realized that I was the. Limiter of my success, you know, and I looked around and I saw people that were not necessarily any smarter or more talented or, all things even we were the same people and yet they were having better results.

[00:02:53] Hector: And so there was this, moment where I realized like, oh, if I get better, I can make more money. And it's the same thing that you're sort of saying is that when they make this realization that if they help their people as like if they actually help and care about them as people, then it will actually make them more money.

[00:03:10] Hector: It's just that same realization, but sort of at scale , for organizations. I.

[00:03:15] Lani: Yeah, absolutely. And in the one-to-one, it's a kind of that old adage of you can't lead others if you can't lead yourself. But then also, yeah, on that scaling side, when you do have a team, employees, even if you're super small, like. Those handful of employees matter and are gonna help convert those numbers so.

[00:03:34] Hector: Yeah, I'm curious for you, was there a moment that, , really highlighted to you? Business leaders were, limiting themselves. And even successful leaders, people that would, on the outside look very successful, have lots of achievements that even them, they have new levels to be able to unlock by sort of going inside themselves and doing whatever magic it is that you do in there.

[00:03:59] Lani: Yeah, so some of this stemmed from just my personal journey. , In my private practice, it was thriving. It was very stable, you know, everything was running smoothly. But then I started asking those questions like I. Well, what's next? Like, do I just do this for another 20, 30 years and that's it? Because I checked a lot of the boxes.

[00:04:18] Lani: I had been successful. Like no one was questioning if I was doing enough. But there was still that I would've used language, like I wasn't intellectually stimulated enough or I didn't have a creative outlet. Wouldn't have probably used the word bored, but now I might, looking back. , And so. I've been in that place of the what's next?

[00:04:39] Lani: Or also, too, as a business owner, like if something's gonna change, then it's on you to change it. And so figuring out what is that next step. And so I've really seen a common theme throughout those individuals I work with is we really start talking about transforming success into legacy. And by that I mean like they've done the.

[00:04:59] Lani: Bulk of the things to get successful, like outwardly, like people are like, yeah, you check the boxes, great job, keep going. But they're like, there's still something missing. Like I've done the 99%, what is that? Like final 1% tweak, that's gonna take me to the next level that's gonna level up. And oftentimes we don't have those examples around us.

[00:05:20] Lani: And so then we have to go on a hunt and start figuring out what's that actually look like. Practically speaking.

[00:05:25] Hector: And I would imagine that most high performers are, so anomalous in their, group that to your point, there isn't a lot of examples out there.

[00:05:36] Hector: And. A lot of times we need either someone to be that example and provide that model, or I would imagine in your case, you know someone to. Essentially hold us accountable to our, perspectives and our mindsets or our beliefs and to be able to hold up a mirror that people can see, oh, this is actually limiting me, or this is actually holding me back, or my business.

[00:06:01] Hector: it seems like as I've sort of grown in my journey that some of the. things that get us to say stage two, in business, are actually the same things that sort of prevent us from going stage three or stage four.

[00:06:14] Lani: Yeah, absolutely. , I was working with a CEO recently, and you kind of summarized it, but she said, I spend, she was a CEO and founder had had her company for about 20 years, and she's like, I spend most of my day of telling people what to do. Or people are kind of scared or afraid to be truly honest with me because I'm at the top and she's like, with you.

[00:06:37] Lani: You push back, you aren't afraid to challenge you hold me accountable. You hold up that mirror. And so, yeah, sometimes it's just finding that right person, whatever, if it's a coach, a mentor, a guide to come alongside us and kind of add a little more pressure because there's a lot of distractions out there.

[00:06:54] Lani: You know, you can go down so many rabbit holes of who's the expert, who has what information or secret sauce or magic fix that's gonna help you. But at the end of the day, you gotta figure out, okay, what am I willing to commit to? Who am I looking for? Who's that mentor? The guide to come alongside me.

[00:07:12] Hector: Are there any blind spots or. , tight curves, if you will, is another analogy. Essentially, things that people don't see, so are, there things that you've been able to see because you have such a, you know, a larger sample size than the average person?

[00:07:30] Lani: I'd say one of the biggest things I come across in those who are scaling is the fear of letting. Go. And so this comes across both in their personal lives and their professional lives, because now that you're in that scaling mindset, everything is coming too fast. If you're in a hiring phase, people are taking on other responsibilities, and so often the founder stays stuck in that mindset of everything has to go through me, or only I can do this one thing, or if it's not done by me.

[00:08:01] Lani: It's not gonna be up to the same level of quality, and that's where they're kind of shooting themselves in the foot and they're staying stuck in that place and they can't scale as fast as they need to or they want to because. They can't get over that fear of letting go of that control. And I even see this in their personal lives.

[00:08:18] Lani: 'cause as a sife, we talk both of their worlds. You know, how are you showing up in the living room and in the boardroom? And so even things like hiring a personal assistant or hiring someone to pick up your kids, like those tasks are like, well I can do it, so I should do it, I only trust myself to do it.

[00:08:34] Lani: And so that fear of trusting others too, be it an employee in whatever area is definitely something we gotta peel back the onions of, okay, let's look at this control. Let's look at this fear. Because the only way to scale is, wow, you gotta get rid of a lot of things. But that can also, then on the flip side, can be so exciting to some people because they're like.

[00:08:54] Lani: Yeah, I haven't wanted to do, you know, half of these jobs, but as a founder, they've been my responsibility and so some are just shoving them off and we need to slow down maybe a little to make sure we're, you know, unloading those things in the right way. But yeah, definitely that fear of letting go.

[00:09:11] Hector: Well, yeah, you mentioned all, of the things that I am guilty of and, you know, we are in a very, what at least started as a, you know, very creative. Sort of medium in podcasting. And so, you know, I, I did all the same things. Oh, it's not gonna sound right, or it's not gonna look right, or it's not gonna, you know, all these sorts of things.

[00:09:29] Hector: And realizing that I was actually limiting the amount of people that we could serve. And that's the amount of people that we could impact by me being, you know, the controller. And I think about, you know, back when I was doing everything we were managing and producing, you know, three or four shows.

[00:09:45] Hector: A lot, lot and we're, you know, we're doing so much and now, , we produce 25 shows and I do almost none of the production. And it's, you know, there is the challenges and the, beasts and the foes are, bigger and different. But, , you know, if I would've stayed stuck to that, , there would've been no way that we could you be able to scale to you know, the place that we have so far.

[00:10:07] Lani: Yeah, and that takes sometimes just a lot of courage or self-awareness, or the willingness to take the leap, even if you don't know what the other side. I looks like because until you take that leap, you're gonna stay stuck in that scaling. Yeah, you might kind of creep along, but it's gonna be a lot harder than it has to be in some capacity.

[00:10:27] Hector: You mentioned earlier, something to the regards of, you know, you've done a lot of leaders or businesses have done the 99% and I think that, I've been guilty of it in the sense of when they reach that point, they either look for another shiny object or they, Do more or add more, more is definitely something that you can do. But you mentioned going from 99 to a hundred, it seems like that might qualify like more in the, the be better, I think is the, you know, not, not necessarily doing more, but making it an adjustment or changing a perspective or, you know, it's, think a lot of business owners have this idea that they have to work harder to scale and yes, it will be hard work, but they are not correlative in that, you know, more hard work equals more revenue.

[00:11:14] Lani: Exactly, and rarely am I working with execs or entrepreneurs and there's just like some area of their life that needs a mammoth overhaul. And it's really these tiny tweaks, like if you set the ship. On a chorus, but you change it just one degree, you're gonna end up in a totally different place. And so also I think it takes a lot of patience in this stage because in that initial setup, like when you're getting going, things are moving pretty fast, and you see like that first 80%.

[00:11:45] Lani: Kind of quickly, but then it feels like it's taking just as much effort, you know, than to go that extra 1%. And so it's working with them and getting that patience of, okay, you're doing this 1% change now, 10, 20, 30 years down the road, your life's gonna be in an absolutely different spot. And so many people then jump ship because they don't see the fast results because.

[00:12:09] Lani: Yeah, we're talking a long-term game here, not just overnight successes that come and go. And so a lot of people aren't willing to stay the chorus because it just looks too small for them almost.

[00:12:23] Hector: You know, it's a really good point and it's something I've seen re you know. I've learned in, you know, in fitness and health, you see similar phenomenon in the sense that when you start working out and you start lifting weights, you know, at the very beginning there is a ton of growth and a ton of, you know, hypertrophy and you're getting all of these quote unquote gains and then all of a sudden you look up and to get the same amount of gains to go.

[00:12:49] Hector: You know, like you said, if you're getting started and you get to 50%, well going from zero to 50, that takes one level of effort. But going 50 to 60 or 50 to 75 going, that next little bit requires a different set of gears. And, seems like the same is, is in business, right?

[00:13:04] Hector: That to get that extra margin. Maybe harder is not necessarily, the better word, but perhaps it takes more diligence or it takes, , more attention or more intention or more skill perhaps.

[00:13:17] Lani: Yeah. Intention, finesse, skill, , detail. It's not just the, oh, let's go do this one big thing. It's okay. We're really trying to level up and refine here.

[00:13:31] Hector: when you think about it, is it a. Tactics thing? Is it a habits thing? Once someone goes, okay, you're right, you know, there's this 1% that I'm missing maybe there's a roadmap to it or, you know, a set of steps or a, you know, order of operations. what's the recipe? What are the steps? Like, how might we go about moving a little further down that path?

[00:13:51] Lani: Sometimes it's very behavioral based, setting up new habits and actions. But I think oftentimes that first step is uncovering the resistance. So going back to like that fear piece of letting go, of control, what is it that's stopped you in the past? Because maybe you've caught in glimmers of this or someone else has spoken into this and you're, you have some level of awareness of.

[00:14:14] Lani: Here's what I need to be doing. And so what is that resistance? Is it a limiting belief? Is it lack of trust in your team? Is it you just aren't convinced it's actually going to work? Is it self-confidence? And once again, sometimes people are like, oh, self-confidence, self-esteem, whatever.

[00:14:34] Hector: does someone have to go away into the mountains or into a cave or one of these silent or darker treats to sort of find this? Or are there symptoms or things that can kind of point to, because I think that this might be like a blind spot, right? Something that they've sort of held onto.

[00:14:49] Hector: , So how might they go about discovering or uncovering some of these things?

[00:14:54] Lani: I love the question because people often get worried like, oh, is this gonna get too fruey? And like, are we gonna hold hands and sink kumbaya and all these things? That is not even like my personality, just in my clinical psychologist role, I am very action oriented. I am very direct. We hold feet to the fire, that type of thing.

[00:15:14] Lani: And so it's a lot of questioning. It's a lot of challenging of, okay, you just gave me this information. Well, I'm gonna blow it up with these next three questions, or I'm gonna make you really sit and consider that and. I am very much that there's no like one size fits all. And so I'll be like, fine, go do an extra workout tomorrow.

[00:15:33] Lani: Get in the weight room where you think best, and then come back with a response to me. Or if you do wanna journal, I do have some people, and that's their thing. Great. But if it's not your thing, then hey, like I'm not gonna tell you to go journal or go sit in the mountains. And so it's gonna be, Hey, what is our next step?

[00:15:51] Lani: And we're gonna keep the ball rolling and keep you accountable to what's going down.

[00:15:55] Hector: Yeah, I think we would get along 'cause you bring such logic and practicality to situations, which I have found, , is not the case for everybody. But, , if we, if we could just use that, I think things would be, , , I don't know, different for sure. , We were talking before and you talked about

[00:16:14] Hector: I don't know if prioritization would be like the way to word it, but that's sort of what I took away and, and sort of saying no to things so that you can say yes to sort of the things that matter most. And maybe this is part of delegation or part of control, but does that seem to play a role in the things that people say no to?

[00:16:31] Hector: As much as the things that people are, are actually adding onto their plate as business leaders.

[00:16:37] Lani: I think that's a huge piece of it, , because usually. Everyone I work with, like they have no shortage of opportunities of things to say yes to. Like even if you think if you have a partner or you have kids or whatever social spheres you're in, like there's always something to say yes to. Just like in business, there's always the next shiny object or the next connection or the next product to develop or whatever it is.

[00:17:03] Lani: And so really it's more often not that. They don't know when to say yes or no. And so we get super clear on, okay, what is our long-term goals? What is that vision? What is that priority? Because they're, we're living in a world of constant simulation and there's so much decision fatigue going on too. And people lack efficiency.

[00:17:25] Lani: They lack focus, which shows up both personally and in your business too. When someone comes to you and you're like, do I say yes? Do I say no? And so. I had one CEOI was working with, and we were talking values because values help give clarity, but she finally stops me and she's like, my husband's gonna roll his eyes at this.

[00:17:43] Lani: We can't call them values. So we came up with the term efficiency guidelines. So whatever we call them, it's a way to just get quicker on the way and not get stuck of, does this deserve space on my calendar or not? What is getting my resources? Am I doing it out of guilt, out of obligation because I don't really know where I'm going and I am.

[00:18:03] Lani: Fearful of missing out the whole FOMO piece of it. And so yeah, that's definitely a piece of clarity because everything just gets easier if you know exactly where you're going.

[00:18:13] Hector: Yeah, I think it requires, clarity, , so that way when something shows up that looks like an opportunity, we had A referral sort of come in and, you know, maybe a year or two ago when I got the email, I would've jumped and said, yes, of course we can do all those things that we're not really, you know, meant to do or, equipped to do because you'd be willing to pay us money.

[00:18:33] Hector: But, , I. said, no, this is like, here's what we could do. There are these things that we can't do, , which make is probably not the best fit and , you know, kind of offered to tap my network and such. And what was interesting is that, you know, right after that we got. I don't wanna say an sage, but, a large amount of, inquiries that are coming in that were right up like our perfect, you know, clients.

[00:18:54] Hector: And so it's just, I think going back to the beginning of what I was saying, it takes a little bit of faith to know that if I turn, if I say no to this. If I'm doing the right things and I'm, you know, and I'm being intentional and intentional to the right sort of things, then the right sort of thing is going and should come my way, you know, in the right timing.

[00:19:12] Hector: and I know for me earlier in my journey, , I was a little less on that side. And so I was much quicker to say, yes, we can, you know, jump through all these hoops and squeeze through all these holes to, you know, take your money.

[00:19:23] Lani: I get that. I've been there too, as an early career psychologist opening a practice. Okay. I need clients. Like, yeah, I'll work with you. I have the skills. , But yeah, then as you go along it's like, okay, like I gotta pull back here. Or if I actually wanna get to my ideal client, I gotta slow things down a little bit.

[00:19:41] Lani: And so, yeah, I think totally common for most business startups, for sure.

[00:19:46] Hector: You also talk a lot about, Maybe sort of woo woo. I may, you know, I think it's gotten woo woo, but before it was like the corporate lingo sort of thing, like missions and values and, you know, those sorts of things. And, , I'm not of that mind, but I know a lot of people think that like, oh, that's just, corporate talk.

[00:20:04] Hector: Oh, that's just mumbo jumbo. That's just kumbaya sort of stuff, and it doesn't have a real impact on the business. , What are your thoughts on those things and, how might that differ?

[00:20:16] Lani: Yeah, I think they all have a role, both personally and professionally, because I think if you don't know where you're going or have a clear path to what is in goal, then things are gonna be a lot harder. Even as a leader, like I. Take a specific project maybe you have going on in your business.

[00:20:33] Lani: If you go ask the eight people on the team, what is the end goal? Are you going to get the same response from all eight people? Probably not. And so even when we break it down into smaller tasks and such, or projects. Just as a leader, like are you leading with clarity? Are there clear expectations? Just like if there's say a problem employee and you're considering firing them well, have you been clear with your expectations?

[00:21:01] Lani: Do they know exactly what's expected out of the project? Has that been communicated? Was that laid out in a job description? Like is that just old news? Have things shifted? And so oftentimes it is a clarity or a communication problem, and if you go and ask the employee, they'll give you a totally different, answer than the leader who's like, oh yeah, I've been totally clear.

[00:21:25] Lani: But then you go ask their team and their team's like. What, that's actually your end goal. And so oftentimes when I'm working with a team, I just start by like having everyone write out on index cards, like what is the goal of this project? Or what do you think is the point of this company? Or why are you here?

[00:21:42] Lani: What is the purpose of your job? And. More times than not, usually the leaders, the owners are just blown away by the responses because they think they've been clearly communicating, but they haven't. And so mission, vision, values is just a way to get at that clarity. We can call it whatever you want, but that just helps us, gives that structure and helps all those different pieces of a business run a little more smoothly.

[00:22:07] Lani: It's kind of like the oil and the engine. It's keeping things running.

[00:22:11] Hector: As we round out here, if there are a few things, whether it's reminders, habits, mindsets, thoughts, things that, sort of help someone to take what we've talked about today, and put it into action or put it into practice, , what are some of those things that might get them, them going?

[00:22:29] Lani: I'd say as you're scaling and if you're in the throes of that in your business. Don't forget about the other half of your life that's going on now. I am a huge proponent that work life balance is a total myth, and actually it's probably gonna. Be more detrimental if like, that's your pursuit. So I'm not saying, oh yeah, go find your balance.

[00:22:48] Lani: Everything needs to be equal. No, because that's just not the reality. When you're in the throes of business and you're trying to scale and you wouldn't tell an accountant in tax season, oh, are you still home by five o'clock for dinner? Like, that's just not the reality. And so just figuring out though, in the season you're in, how do you need to be showing up your bus?

[00:23:07] Lani: Because yeah, as a psychologist, if you're telling me, Hey, I have focus issues. I can't think in the office, I can't make decisions. There is this very, once again, very practical side of how are you sleeping, how are you fueling your body, screen, time, movement, relationships, all of that too. We're starting to get some acceptance of that research.

[00:23:27] Lani: Like, okay, we need a holistic view to show up just as well in the office and to be as productive. , So not forgetting about that side, but then also with those yes and nos, like start with your calendar, what is on there out of obligation? And I would start peeling some of those back, , and thinking, all right, what would I rather replace it with?

[00:23:47] Lani: What do I need to replace it with? That's actually gonna. Once again, we're in this for the long-term gain. Gonna help me and be more productive.

[00:23:55] Hector: absolutely. Great. This is fantastic. We're gonna need to go back and listen to this a couple of times. , I have one more question for you, Laney, but if people want to get deeper in your world, follow up with you or just get more connected, , where's the best place for.

[00:24:09] Lani: Yeah, , they can head to dr lanny jones.com and on my homepage right there, , there's a starter kit for the final 1%. If you're like, okay, some of these ideas feel a little out there, or I don't know where to start, I need some plug and play assistance. , It's a free resource right there. We'll kind of help them take the first steps, or if they wanna contact me, send any messages.

[00:24:31] Lani: They can also do that through the website as well.

[00:24:35] Hector: Listeners know, you can always check the show notes for those links. And, , my last question for you, Dr. Laney, in your opinion, what is the secret to scaling a business?

[00:24:44] Lani: Knowing everything is a season. And if you see things as seasons, it makes it more bearable. It makes 'em more doable. And I think it helps you keep your focus because people sometimes I think, get freaked out and think, oh, there's no end here, or This is too much, or What have I got in myself into? And all these different business chapters, scaling are different seasons.

[00:25:08] Lani: And so sometimes you gotta put the blinders on and run hard. And it doesn't mean this will last forever, but. Knowing that there's an end at some point can help them sustain that focus a lot easier When you think in those terms.