62. Microbes, Memes and Missions to Mars: John Cumbers' Wild Synbio World

[00:00:00] Hey

[00:00:00] Karl: Ram, what's

[00:00:00] Erum: up? Hey Carl, a lot's going on all around the world. How are you?

[00:00:04] Karl: Good, I'm glad that we're settling back into a rhythm. You're in India, I was in Paris, and now we've been hard at it. No travel for a little bit. there's a lot going on.

[00:00:16] Erum: Yeah, we're not going to be physically traveling, but we will be virtually traveling because there's a lot going on all around the world when it comes to biotech.

[00:00:24] Erum: and you shared some news with me about, a biotech initiative in Saudi Arabia and that they're getting on board and they are starting to see the value of biomanufacturing to be able to produce products locally rather than relying on imports.

[00:00:38] Erum: so that's really exciting. I'm very interested to dig more into how they're approaching this national biotech initiative and what are some of the first items on their list. Yeah.

[00:00:48] Karl: this was in the news last. Thursday. So it's late January And, Saudi Arabia, was in the news because they said they were launching a national biotechnology strategy with the goal of being the biotech leader in the Middle East and North Africa by 2030.

[00:01:04] Karl: And really with the hopes of becoming a global international biotech hub by 2040. It's hard to imagine what biotech is going to look like that far in the future, even though it's only Less than 20 years away. So, they're going to continue to build on their strengths, which means a lot of money, and a commitment and a lot of education.

[00:01:24] Karl: I think we know a fair number of Saudi Arabian biotech, either students or entrepreneurs here in the United States. And I'm sure that other people who see the opportunity would be interested in, going or putting a facility over in Saudi Arabia.

[00:01:37] Erum: Yeah, I think one of the big things and I'll say one of the criticisms oftentimes of Saudi and actually other initiatives in the Middle East when it comes to the United Arab Emirates is they have really big initiatives, they put a lot of money in, but sometimes those initiatives they're not as successful as anticipated.

[00:01:54] Erum: So I'm thinking of this, Adobe initiative, called Mazdar City, which is a pretty cool layout. I mean, they claim to have self driving cars, but they're actually cars on tracks. They weren't self driving. it looked beautiful, but it was fairly empty. did go there like on a Saturday, but it made it seem like it was a bustling city with lots of people living there and there really wasn't.

[00:02:15] Erum: Saudi Arabia has initiative of the line that, known project that's fairly new. So it remains to be seen if that will be bustling. but there's been a couple other things. When I went to India, I was talking to a friend of mine who's a photographer, and he was asked to take photos of this school that was built, is actually in a desert area in India.

[00:02:33] Erum: And there were a lot of experts from all around the world that were coming to, make this beautiful, sustainable school, that was Not really close to a lot of villages, but it was this big PR stunt and it was built and all this money was poured into it. And all these people came from all over the world to see it when it first launched.

[00:02:50] Erum: but they didn't have any of the local kids attend. They actually got children to act and pretend that they were going to the school for photo opportunities, but nothing actually transpired. So it's like a ghost school now, no one attends it because it's just far enough.

[00:03:04] Erum: That's hard for people to commute there. there was no other infrastructure, busing to go to the school. So anyway, , I'm digressing, but it just, for these big initiatives that happen in places that maybe aren't densely populated. How are you going to get people to go there and live there and enjoy what is.

[00:03:20] Erum: Being built.

[00:03:21] Karl: I'm fascinated by this idea of the line. I'd like to know more about the way it's being constructed becauseI mean, in an ideal world, everything would be produced locally on site. So you would grow the concrete, you would grow the infrastructure, you wouldn't need to be importing iron or concrete from other places, but it does seem to be advancing pretty quickly. I get what you're saying about these big national initiatives, but still props to Saudi Arabia for setting in place a, national bio economy initiative and claiming that they're going to become a regional hub by 2040.

[00:03:55] Karl: I think, biotech is going to be for sure the most important technology along with AI, as we move. Further into the century. at the same time, our friends at Symbio Africa announced that they're doing their second annual event. Last year it was held in Uganda. This year it's going to be held in Nairobi, Kenya.

[00:04:13] Karl: as we get more information on that, we'll share it and I think what we should try to do is we should get someone from Saudi Arabia to come on to talk about the bio initiative.

[00:04:23] Karl: We should get, Jeffrey O team to come on and talk about what's going on in Africa. We did end up meeting a lot of people from South Africa when we were at SymbioVeda last year. there is a lot of stuff going on domestically, which is.

[00:04:35] Karl: Typically what we're working on, but I think it's fascinating to see what's happening around the world. And given that this is a global industry, there's a lot of people working in it. I think it's important for us to just highlight the fact that there's a lot of interest. There's a lot of, people using these technologies and, a lot of people want to make the world a better place using biotechnology.

[00:04:54] Erum: yeah. And again, oftentimes biotech was associated with biopharma. And here on this podcast, we talked about how biotech is changing every industry it's blossoming in different parts of the world. A lot of startups are blossoming here in the U. S. Also, mentioned India. There's an episode about that, and different parts of the world.

[00:05:10] Erum: and because we are here in New York City, it is its own biotech hub here that goes again beyond biopharma. And there's a lot of programs, labs, incubators, accelerators, and we're lucky to be a part of that community. one of the things that we help these arms with is uh, yeah. Hosting a strategic communications workshop.

[00:05:30] Erum: It's what we do day to day at Messaging Lab. We really help companies hone in on their messaging achieve their business goals, really. Like, what do they need to do? oftentimes when we meet a startup or a company, They were like, we want to get into the New York times.

[00:05:43] Erum: Can you help? okay, why do you want to get into the New York times? what is actually your business goal? Forget about a big splash. What are you trying to achieve? Like, Oh, we want to get business customers. Like, okay. so the chances of them reading the New York times article is a lot less than you just reaching out directly.

[00:05:59] Erum: Right. So we. Talk to them about what is the actual communication strategy that they need? we want to provide startups with the tools to actually talk about what a marketing strategy is, Beyond the press release, beyond traditional media placements. it is a joy to talk to these startups because they're doing fascinating things.

[00:06:17] Erum: And if anything we could do to help them is. Amazing.

[00:06:20] Karl: Yeah, I think it's worth saying that it's not just startup. It's also established companies that do need help with their communications and always in the service of what the business goals are. And we keep a list on the Messaging Lab website that shows what marketing looks like, what are the different marketing tactics that a company can use?

[00:06:39] Karl: And I think today there is probably about 100, maybe, 150 different tactics. And doing media is just one of those tactics. So for us, whenever we work with any company, the first thing we do is we try to find out what their business goals are. And sometimes that's not even clear. But once we get that in place and we understand it, then we can start to develop.

[00:06:59] Karl: A strategy for that company to help them meet those business goals through marketing and communications.

[00:07:05] Erum: Yes. Yep. Yep. there is a bustling startup culture here in New York city.

[00:07:11] Erum: There's several incubators. a lot of people are familiar with indie bio. there's bio labs. There's New York bio. we're actually very lucky to be working with the Merck digital sciences studio. they do focus on bio pharma. and a lot of that is more related to the software people are developing to create biotech products. So I wonder, if some of those products that are made can be used for bioindustrials. But this is a workshop that we're really excited to be hosting next week. Um, sure we'll talk more about that after we have it. But I'm just really excited to meet, the startups that are there.

[00:07:44] Erum: and yes, startups are very exciting. They are very new. They're raising funding. , we work with them as, as much as we can.

[00:07:52] Erum: one of the events that startups attend in the bio industrial space is SynBioBeta is an amazing conference. We talked about it, last year because, I attended. You've been going for quite some time, Carl, since the beginning, right?

[00:08:04] Karl: I think I've been going since the second SynBioBeta, maybe in or 2014. So this would be my let's just say 10 years of attending with maybe one year not going and of course then during the pandemic But during the pandemic john the organizer held a lot of virtual events And I think I participated in most of those and it was a great way to keep the community together sometimes you had 100 people on a zoom that wanted to see each other because we were so used to each other physically, whether in San Francisco or more recently in Oakland.

[00:08:37] Karl: So it is a very, tight knit community. It's a growing community and pretty much anybody who's involved in synthetic biology probably knows about symbio beta.

[00:08:47] Erum: Yeah, so for any company that's in the buy industrial space, it's highly recommended that you attend. It's in buy beta because you will have an unfair advantage because you will have met a lot of people that think like you that might have solved problems.

[00:09:01] Erum: that you are facing right now, so you don't have to maybe spend a lot of time trying to figure that out, but just ask your fellow founders, your fellow business professionals. it's a great way to network, great way to learn maybe other industries that you could explore if the one that you're working in might not be, the right product market fit, maybe there's another market that you could go to.

[00:09:21] Erum: and Symbiobeta does a great job of showcasing all of the different. industry, different technologies that are out there to really help grow the bioeconomy. all thanks to our guest today, John Cumbers.

[00:09:35] Karl: So john is a longtime friend. as I mentioned, I did meet him at the symbio beta conference and we became friends. He would eventually ask me if I wanted to co author what's your strategy, which we did. And we published back in 2017, which seems like a really long time ago. But john also, previously had worked at NASA, which We'll talk about and, has some really exciting new things happening.

[00:09:58] Karl: So I think this is going to be a great conversation with John Cumbers, who has an extensive network across synthetic biology and biotech around the world and is inspiration to us all.

[00:10:10] Karl: So we also have a special offer for our listeners from Symbiobeta. If you want to hear that, stay tuned until the end, but let's get the pod started.

[00:10:23] Karl: Iram, what did you think? you've known John for a while, but you had never attended Symbiobeta until last year. What was your impression of the interview and what was your impression of Symbiobeta? John

[00:10:34] Erum: is just a fun person to speak with. Not only is he funny, he has a different perspective on things, but he's also very knowledgeable.

[00:10:41] Erum: It's just great to talk to him because he sees everything that's going on in, you SinBio, Biotech, even in what's going on in, different government initiatives, because he is involved. So he's a wealth of information and a joy to speak with. And I just really commend him for sticking to SinBioBeta and being devoted to developing this community.

[00:11:02] Erum: It makes our jobs easier because we meet all these fascinating people when we attend SinBioBeta.

[00:11:07] Karl: Yeah, absolutely. John's a great person and he has created this tremendous network. I've heard someone say that the reason why synthetic biology is as successful as it is in the United States is because of John.

[00:11:20] Karl: And had he, stayed in the UK, for example, the UK would be a much bigger powerhouse when it comes to synthetic biology. Not that they're in any way slackers. We do see a lot of very interesting companies coming from England. And we. hear about new ones starting up all the time. So I'm very excited for that.

[00:11:38] Karl: But love being around john. He's very inspirational and he's a great person to know.

[00:11:43] Erum: I love the fact that when I brought up the oral microbiome company, because I was just curious to because he mentioned that's a company that he wanted to start and Curiosity that was still on his mind and how funny is it that there is a company is out there focusing on the oral microbiome and they're coming to send bio beta.

[00:11:59] Erum: if you dream it, it will happen. And wouldn't it be awesome if that company had listened to our episode. And it was like, that's a cool idea based on all of our research, we could do something like that. Let's just start it.

[00:12:10] Karl: Right. If you've started a company based on something you've heard on grow everything, please let us know.

[00:12:17] Karl: We definitely, would love some founder shares.

[00:12:22] Erum: that's the dream, Ideas are very easy to come by, hard to execute. So, the company will have their name in the show notes. It's escaping me right now.

[00:12:30] Erum: and we'll keep tabs on them when we see them as in by beta this year, we will definitely, talk to them, interview them and see what they're up to. Oral microbiome. That's awesome. I also love the fact that John started an animation studio to help explain biology better.

[00:12:45] Erum: I mean, come on, Carl, for us, this is what we do. We do messaging, which we help companies with that messaging when it comes to what to say, but the visualization part to be able to create a cartoon and help people, but younger people think about biology earlier, it's going to be fascinating.

[00:13:00] Erum: So I can't wait to see this animation that John and his team will be creating. and what it looks like, I he has, I think, high standards based on the animations that he has seen before. And I know that he's going to strive to do better. So I can't wait to see what that looks like. And we will definitely talk about it.

[00:13:19] Erum: We will link to it. I'm just excited about biotech

[00:13:21] Karl: animations. Yeah, we need a lot more of that. I mean, we're lucky in that we know a good amount of people like our friend in Poland, Frank Metzl, who's an animator, we've also got a friend who's an animator who works Out of Argentina.

[00:13:36] Karl: The other really great vision of synthetic biology is by Vantage Films, which you can find on Vimeo.

[00:13:44] Karl: It's much easier to look for that than it is to look for it on YouTube, because if you search for synthetic biology on YouTube, you're going to get a lot of lectures, you might get some TED Talks, there's going to be a fair amount of other stuff. But I'm super excited to see what John and his team come.

[00:13:59] Karl: up with. I think having that Pixar aesthetic and doing something that is much more storytelling will do a lot to get kids interested in this industry. In addition, we should have our friend Ashton Trotman Grant on here because he is developing a video game that is about biotechnology, and I think that that's a fascinating thing to be doing.

[00:14:20] Erum: Yes, yeah, those are amazing forms of engaging communications, I'd say, so, The more we can have that, the better.

[00:14:27] Karl: Yeah. And I think it's worth saying, okay, soWe're going to attend SymbioBeta in May.

[00:14:33] Karl: I just came back from BioFabricate, which I've written a couple of blog posts on, LinkedIn. And, our friends at PolyBion, who we featured very early in the Grow Everything podcast, just appeared in a article in Vogue UK that asks the question, would you wear bacteria grown leather?

[00:14:52] Karl: And it looks like Gani, which is a Dutch, I believe, fashion brand is coming out with a line, so commercially available line of products that are going to be produced using polybion's bacteria grown leather, which is known as selenium. So I'm super excited about that.

[00:15:10] Karl: I expect that the guys from Pollock Bion will be at SimBioBeta this year and probably will have some really interesting developments to show us. And I think we should also get them back here on the pod.

[00:15:22] Erum: Yeah, absolutely. And those of you that are Sold once in bio beta, because we did mention it a few times.

[00:15:28] Erum: And of course, being able to be in the community that John created speaking with him, because he's very approachable when at some bio beta, we have a special promo code. It's grow everything for 300 off of the symbiotic beta ticket. It's worth it, especially if you're a biotech founder, especially if Your heart is set on joining this industry, or maybe you're still questioning it. it's good to go learn what's going on. And if it's for you, it's great. If not, at least you learned, and you could just move on to another industry, but, it is definitely worth going to, it's fascinating.

[00:16:00] Erum: So. Please join, use the Grow Everything promo code to get your tickets for Send Buy Beta this year. we also wanted

[00:16:07] Karl: to just, uh, comment on a review that we got on Apple. So if you listen to Grow Everything and you enjoy this podcast, please do us a favor and subscribe. And if you really want to do us a solid, write us a review.

[00:16:23] Karl: so we just got this review from Sheldon1818 and, they say, Carl and Iram interview inspiring biotech leaders offering key solutions for human and planetary health so deeply needed today to help provide clean tech solutions in public education that they make accessible for a grab and go approach for responsible daily living in impact.

[00:16:44] Karl: So thank you, Sheldon, 1818 for that very thoughtful review. I really appreciate it.

[00:16:50] Erum: Yes. Awesome. And I can't wait to read more reviews. We'll read it on air. So tell us what's on your mind. Tell us if this podcast has helped you think differently, maybe provided you an idea for your company or your day to day.

[00:17:02] Erum: Work or maybe you have a crazy startup idea that you just want to share. And maybe there is a company that's building it. So this is a great way to start a conversation, just to write a review. And as Carl said, do us a solid.

[00:17:14] Karl: Yeah. So we also, as we've mentioned before, we do have a hotline. If you have a question for us, if you have a suggestion for a.

[00:17:21] Karl: Guest, or if you want to make a comment without writing the comment, you can always call the hotline, the numbers in the show notes, and also now the show notes are a lot more extensive. If you're listening to this podcast on apple, because the apple is providing full transcripts of every podcast that is published on the apple podcast network.

[00:17:39] Karl: That's very exciting. I will have to check it out because I know that transcription can be an issue, especially when you're talking technical terms or. names. And I know that when we get our transcripts, sometimes we have to rewrite a fair amount, just because we do have some technical language that gets used here on grow everything, but please do use the hotline and leave us a message.

[00:18:00] Erum: Yeah, I wonder if they got my name right. So, if they got my name right, Oh my god, I'd be so happy, but if they didn't, it's okay. AI is still far away from where it needs to be. , anyway. I'm trying to think

[00:18:11] Karl: of like, how many times I've corrected ERUM over the last 60 episodes because Descript doesn't get it right.

[00:18:18] Karl: Ever.

[00:18:19] Erum: I know, I know it's the bane of my existence living in a Western world, but we're all globalizing. So it's going to be, it's going to get better. I'll be okay. It's all right.

[00:18:29] Karl: Well, I think that's the

[00:18:30] Erum: pod. Yes, absolutely. Stay tuned and we'll talk to you later.

[00:18:34] Karl: