165. Biology Behind the Brands: Inside P&G’s Two-Century Story

Amy Trejo consumers don't care how you make the material that you provide to them they care primarily about does this work, does this help me get the job done that I need to get done today?

Karl Hey Rome, what's going on?

Erum Oh, Carl, I've been so busy. It's been insane Here over at Messaging Lab, at Over at Grow Everything, we've been talking to a lot of different people in the biotech world. Not only just innovators and obviously we have our CPG series going on, but also investors.

Erum I wanna give a shout out to Lichen Ventures, headed by Justin Brody Comet and I had met Justin at an event during Climate Week and he's been a listener of the podcast. So, hello Justin. And recently, he had asked me to write an article for the, Lichen ventures blog about industrial bio manufacturing, which I did.

Erum Because I talk about it all the time and I'm like, fine, you know what? Let me whip something [00:01:00] up for their ecosystem. So I did,

Karl it was a good blog post. we'll put a link in the notes for it because you should read it. you talk about needing to have a Manhattan project or Manhattan project like effort for Biomanufacturing.

Karl and this need for industry and companies to rally. and I think it fits right in with some of the other work we're doing that we're gonna be revealing over the course of the year around, different companies coming together and creating coalitions for specific molecules or ingredients. Things that normally would be very difficult for one company to scale.

Karl But when you get these coalitions together, they really have, exponential power. So I thought it was a good blog post. Congratulations, rem. I think it just speaks again to something we always talk about here on the Grow Everything Podcast, which is products are being rewritten, from the molecular level, right?

Erum Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And I think, um, this whole, perspective of needing that Manhattan project type of moment, [00:02:00] like you're saying, the coordinated effort across government, industry, academia, and manufacturing, and having a focus, a coordinated focus. And I think speaks to a lot of what's happening in the world today.

Erum even though there's been some effort from the government to spearhead bio manufacturing, I mean, it's not as focused as it was a few years ago. at least we're not hearing much. But, on one hand, biomanufacturing enables, a decentralized, localized, regionalized supply chain, which is in line with.

Erum A bit of what's going on here in the United States where we wanna bring some manufacturing to the us, which is, by manufacturing affords that at the same time there's this, need and importance still on having, petro chemistry and oil be a primary source of making products and obviously fuel our, transport and everything.

Erum then, so that's the flip side of buying manufacturing is like, well, you don't need to have so much dependence on that. If we rally on creating [00:03:00] biomanufacturing infrastructure, we can make things in, a different way, even cheaper, if not on par with the cost of making things through, petro chemistry.

Erum So it's a very interesting, dynamic, I would say. but I think there needs to be, more conversation, more rallying, and not, you know, government is one thing, but having industry, academia, manufacturing all come together and say, Hey, government, let's look at this other option. Let's try to put more effort into by manufacturing versus petro chemistry.

Karl Yeah, I think it's, um, an interesting dynamic. Also in an interesting time as we were going to record this, I got an email from the guys at RethinkX who have written about precision fermentation and the changing energy landscape a fair amount. And apparently the founders have a new book called Stellar, A World Beyond Limits and How to Get There.

Karl And what they discuss is how any place could be turned into a boom [00:04:00] town when you deploy solar panels, wind turbines, batteries. Autonomous electrical transportation, AI-based robot labor, which we barely have seen yet, and then precision fermentation, which is really what we talk about here on this podcast.

Karl So I think that that's super interesting because a lot of those things are generally readily available. and it's a matter of like, how do you deploy 'em all in one place to create, a booming city or ecosystem?

Erum Yeah. I mean, I, you shared the link and I haven't looked into the book. stellar, too deeply, but yes, I, do get that, idea of being able to create these boom towns or completely sustainable way of living.

Erum And we had talked about at one town, what was it in like Oregon or Washington, where it was like all women that lived there, right. And are completely like. Self-sustaining. they have their own water grid, their own electricity grid. they grow everything. there's no men there

Erum But when I was thinking about it, I also had recently watched this video, it is of Elon Musk, and heHe was [00:05:00] proposed a question of like, you know, you're this, billionaire, almost a trillionaire.

Erum Oh my God. but why are you still like, you know, participating in government and doing all these things, like why are you so involved in everything? And one of the things he was talking about, which, I had, heard from other leaders but just of came up 'cause this video of.

Erum what's a purpose of, life Like what are we doing? And one of the things, that has motivated him and other people, and I wonder if this is in the book Stellar, is that, we could become this interplanetary species, this interstellar species.

Erum And we're just at the beginning of this and there's so much work to be done in order to start realizing this. And it's not an impossible thing, it's just a time-based thing. but if we focus our efforts collectively as a species, that this could be, something that, first, let's obviously fix the things on earth.

Erum That goes without saying. But if we do that on earth and we're able to then have focused, coordinated efforts to create these boom towns on the moon, on Mars and other places, other moons of [00:06:00] planets, for example, then you might be closer to finding out. These big questions of why are we here that religion does a great job of, putting, some ideas out there.

Erum But I think for other people, especially, you know, people that are like scientists are curious. They just wanna learn more and see things, right. Which It's fair, you know, I'm curious, I of what's out there. And if you build more across our solar system.

Erum What do we learn? And I think, we learned so much at a rapid pace now that it's gonna be very exciting to see what unravels throughout the next few years

Karl Yeah, so it's so funny 'cause what I wanna say is I watched this ridiculous Adam Driver movie called 65. Do you know about this movie?

Erum No. I love that guy.

Karl yeah, he lives in your neighborhood.

Erum Yeah.

Karl and so this movie, it's called 65 because it takes place 65 million years from today.

Karl And the idea is like this very advanced explorer crashes his, spaceship on planet Earth. And has [00:07:00] a passenger that he has to save and it has to get off the planet, and it's taking place at the point where there are dinosaurs walking on the planet. So they're constantly being challenged by these dinosaurs.

Karl But little by little, the sky is being lit up because the asteroids are falling. The asteroids that really took out the dinosaurs. So part of the reason that Musk and others talk about moving off planet is because this kind of event could happen again in the future. But that's not what we're talking about today.

Karl Yes. Today we're talking about,

Erum we went really deep there. Yeah.

Karl Sorry.

Erum Let's get back. Let's kick back.

Karl today, you know, we're talking about

Karl consumer packaged goods companies, and iam, you had a couple of pieces of news that I think are relevant to the people we're talking to today.

Karl Do you wanna go through those?

Erum Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And this is news we heard straight from the people that work there. Carl and I have been talking to so many people across the world of consumer packaged goods, and we have friends across, you know, Mars and anova, Kimberly Clark, Ken View, and there's [00:08:00] been a lot of activity towards the end of last year that, you know.

Erum Slipped through the the news cycle because, you know, the news cycle is a, a bit, occupied at the moment with different things going on. But in terms of business, and some people might have already heard this, is that Mars completed its $36 billion acquisition of K Nova. Used to be Kellogg I didn't know that. I know Kellogg being the big international snack cereal brand. It's North American Frozen Foods, for example. And so now Mars is going to have an explosive snack division, which is going to amazing, be very exciting for that company. so very exciting. And then. On the flip side, you know, we're talking about next, there's also the world of, skincare and beauty and personal care and paper products.

Erum So Kimberly Clark is buying Ken View and Ken View is J and J's, rebranded consumer division. that was a lot of controversy on that [00:09:00] rebrand, but Ken View, or the former j and j consumer division has brands like Tylenol. It's been big in the news, bandaid. Listerine so Kimberly Clark purchased Ken View for close to $50 billion.

Erum So that is interesting because this acquisition is a signal of creating a major global health and wellness company. And they also have brands like, Huggies or diapers. There's a lot of innovation happening there. Kleenex, of course, you know, it's paper products. And, and all these pharmacy brands.

Erum And so some of the commentary that we've heard, about this acquisition is that it's gearing up to be a rival to p and g. And I was like, oh, snap. Because that's who we're speaking to today.

Karl Yeah. I mean, it's potentially rival, but it's a.

Karl targeted rival because, P G's market cap is something like 337 billion, and Unilever's is like 140 billion. So, this acquisition is gonna [00:10:00] have to go away before it, it becomes, uh, true competitor. But I thinkthere's a lot of interesting things that are gonna happen because of this acquisition,

Karl I'm super happy to be introducing Amy Trayo and Jose Carlos Garcia, Garcia of p and g. I've known both of them for many years. Amy and I actually did our first panel together at Symbio Beta probably in 2017 or 2018. And both of them work in the research division at p and g, in Cincinnati.

Karl Amy has a very interesting career in that she's worked across a variety of categories. She's gonna talk about them. I think she, worked at, connect and Develop, which is like their open innovation arm. She, has focused life sciences in health and beauty and, She will talk about that.

Karl I think now she's, you know, really focused on Olay head and shoulders, panting on the line, those kinds of consumer brands. And then JC Dr. Jose Carlos Garcia. Garcia is a senior director and research fellow at p and g. [00:11:00] And, he has a PhD in biomedical sciences. And he, has a really interesting background that he's also gonna talk about, works on, p and G's.

Karl Corporate biotechnology program, which he helped launch in 2010. And he's super passionate about applied research will field that come out in the podcast. And he's very interested in how we use biotechnology to enhance consumer health and wellness. So with that, I think let's let, JC and Amy take it away.

Karl Amy Trejo and Jose Carlos Garcia Garcia of Proctor and Gamble. We are so thrilled to get you on the Grow Everything podcast.

JC Garcia Garcia Thank you for having us, Carl and everyone.

Amy Trejo Yep. We're happy to be here.

Karl Yeah. So, and we're happy to have you, we've known each other for a while. We've known each other through Symbio Beta.

Karl We've done a little bit of work together. I'd love for you both to please, give our audience an introduction in terms of like. What do you [00:12:00] do? What's your role at p and g? And then we have a lot of questions that we wanna ask and questions that we know our audience is gonna wanna know. Amy, why don't you please introduce yourself?

Amy Trejo Sure. so I'm Amy Rejo and I work at the Proctor and Gamble Company, have done for nearly 30 years now. I have worked across a variety of different categories and functions during that time. Primarily focusing on, health and beauty. So I started in skincare working on brands like Olay. and I then moved into the healthcare organization and worked with our probiotic product, align, and,

Amy Trejo Then I moved back into beauty care, working in hair care for my first time, and then I worked in corporate r and d for a period of time and that's when I met jc And we started working together very closely in the life sciences space. did a lot of work with startups at that time and, Started our journey with, biotech, and synthetic biology more intentionally than I think p and g had done previously.

Amy Trejo And then I moved back into beauty care business haircare, which is where I'm, [00:13:00] finishing now. and so I've been in haircare again for maybe the past five years, focusing a lot on our sustainability work in the haircare organization.

JC Garcia Garcia And I'm Jason. I've been with PNG for 15 years and I had the privilege of leading the corporate biotechnology organization.

JC Garcia Garcia We partner with all of our go-to market organizations, all of our business units, to bring biotech innovation to life with their innovation pipeline. And we couldn't be more thrilled to be here today having this conversation and bringing some visibility to what PNG is doing, this space innovating, and, all of the exciting partnerships that we have and are looking for.

Erum Amazing. I'm very excited to have you on. We've. I worked together on some projects, throughout the time of me Knowing you, I've learned a lot about p and g and all the innovation that has transpired over, centuries. It's so amazing. But for our audience, can you walk us through what biotech innovations have had the biggest impact, [00:14:00] whether at P and g or CPG in general and share one from a long time ago and one within the past.

Erum 30 years and one recent one. So three, if you can give us three.

JC Garcia Garcia Yeah. A couple of loaded words there. Yeah. Biotech and, very broad words. So let me use the Procta and Gamble company as a proxy for CPG. And then I use a very, broad and loose definition. So going back nearly two centuries ago, 189 years, the Procter and Gamble company, was founded.

JC Garcia Garcia we've gone through a lot of changes, both as a company, but we've also survived a lot of external changes you can imagine in the nearly two c centuries of existence. We, not only survived, but embraced, but the Industrial revolution, the tech revolution

JC Garcia Garcia , the AI revolution and now we're embracing the biotech revolution.

JC Garcia Garcia We've seen the world go from one billion consumers to Eight plus billion consumers, we've survived, [00:15:00] world Wars. a lot has changed. A lot has changed at the Drug Time Gamble company too. but a few things have not changed. first and foremost, obviously our purpose, values and principles have not changed. We still the business of bringing, superior quality and value products to our consumers to improve their lives.

JC Garcia Garcia Now for generations to come. And that's critical because that makes what we're about, a sustainable, not only from a business standpoint, but also from an environmental standpoint. it hasn't changed, our external focus. that's one of our core values. and that obviously has implications from a consumer centricity and, interesting in partnering with retailers and all of the go to market infrastructure.

JC Garcia Garcia but it's also on the innovation from That's very true. We were always seeking innovation, whatever. it's, we're always seeking to partner with the best and to bring the best talent into BG. And the first [00:16:00] thing that hasn't changed is the foundational, story and origin of the Procter and Gamble company.

JC Garcia Garcia we are fundamentally a biomaterials company, even though some people may think of p and g as a chemistry and marketing company, we have

JC Garcia Garcia origin stories based on thevalorization of bio waste. If we go back nearly two centuries ago, William Procter and James Campbell were in Cincinnati, the poor capital of the world. obviously there was a lot more value in port meat than what the bio waste derived from pork like fats. and they saw that as an opportunity to upcycle that bio waste. And add value and they were making, soap and candles in their bedroom, and they came together again. partnership and collaboration is part of the company, DNA from its inception, and that's a great example. They came together and founded the Rock and Gamble company that were a [00:17:00] bio waste up cycling. Valorization has always been a part of who we're and what we do.

JC Garcia Garcia in more recent times, we have used a lot of, fermentation technologies, enzyme technologies. we, invented and defined a category with laundry enzymes in the 1960s, that are the, the a disruptional technology that served on the basis for the, a real anti brands. Launched in 1968, that those were the first laundry detergent that used enzymes at the time, like basis proteases and cellulase n enzymes at the time.

JC Garcia Garcia Obviously, subsequent generations or products have incorporated improved recombinant, enzymes in most recent decades, and we continue to innovate in that space. for the longest time, Optima temperature warm water was needed for those enzymes. Work and deliver on the consumer promise. we have now, [00:18:00] cold water enzymes that they work equally well, if not better, in cold water, even in the Northern Hemisphere.

JC Garcia Garcia So it's a. continued innovation in, that space. I'm super excited with what's been going on in the beauty industry in more recent times, the last decades, I've seen a lot of innovation and the biotech enabled antiaging, bioactives, and peptides. a lot of. Novel, very exciting.

JC Garcia Garcia Bio surfactants and biopolymers are coming to lab. it has allowed us also to get away from animal testing. You see all of the different, animal free technologies that we've been able to bring to lab. And another two, there's a little, animal free wailing oncology and great bioactive ceramides in the market.

JC Garcia Garcia So a lot of exciting innovation. All the sectors that we play in, and we couldn't be more excited about the, promise of biotech in improving our consumers lives.

Karl When you think about those examples, JC and Amy, you know, what [00:19:00] patterns do you see across them? What made them stick when maybe other innovations did not?

Amy Trejo Yeah, that's a really good question. And I think there's one thing that really defines what makes something stick, and it's pretty basic. It's about performance, right? And so in order for a consumer to. Use and to love your product over time, it has to perform for her. Right? So if we think back to the laundry enzyme example, the options that, people had to, do their laundry were not particularly efficacious.

Amy Trejo And it was step changing to have these enzymes that were. Specifically designed to clean better be a part of this. And it was, tremendously exciting and it got people to want to use this product and only this product, right? And so it's, it was performance driven and I think that that's the real advantage that we have with biotech technologies going forward and where we will see things that do better.

Amy Trejo In the marketplace and are [00:20:00] successful, we'll be driven by the performance that it provides to the consumer. At the end of the day, the consumers don't care how you make the material that you provide to them in the, product that you deliver, right? They care primarily about does this work, does this help me get the job done that I need to get done today?

Amy Trejo Right now? And if you can deliver on that. Then they're going to become loyal to you and to your products. Right? But it has, to deliver. And so when you think about things that have come and gone in this space, it is largely based on, the success is largely based on those that have delivered against the promise that they set out to deliver.

Amy Trejo And I think that biotech technology can be a really huge enabler of that going forward because there is a lot of potential there to provide performance. Exceeds the incumbent materials that we have today and provide better delight and, improved product, performance than, where some of the materials today have been.

Erum thanks for saying that about performance, because I think, more recently in biotech and a lot of biotech companies. [00:21:00] Look to the benefit of sustainability when it comes to what they're doing, when performance always wins out. And I will just use examples for my personal life because, I try to be sustainable.

Erum You know, I,would buy, laundry detergents that of chucks off some of those sustainability boxes, but they wouldn't clean as well. So what do I fall back on? I fall back on Tide. Not to like toot P and G's horn 'cause we're talking to you. But it just works. It just works. I just need it to work.

Erum Right. I have a 4-year-old who's messy and so I have to fall back on that. And even when it comes to haircare, try all sorts of different haircare products and I will say the thing that I use the most to clean my hair and my scalp is head and shoulders. 'cause it works it has to.

Erum Right. And the fact that it's not super expensive. It's also very valuable. no pun intended, but it helps. but you know, we have a lot of biotech innovators that listen to the podcast and they would love to be able to work with p and g in some way. And when we spoke with you, you we know that you're very active [00:22:00] in the industry, guys show up at conferences, you have conversations with a lot of innovators.

Erum But from your vantage point, what do you think is the biggest misunderstanding startups have? About how large consumer companies actually engage with biotech innovation.

JC Garcia Garcia Thank you Iran, for saying that what's interesting is that in spite of our efforts to get out there, there's still that misconception that p and g is more company, and there's so much bio-inspired, bio-based, bio enabled innovation going on at PG and behind.

JC Garcia Garcia It's one of the magic of our products. So we, keep trying really hard to increase awareness, about PNGs, innovation in the biotech space about PNGs openness to partner with the top innovators, whatever they are around the world. we were open for business. that's one of the biggest misconceptions.

JC Garcia Garcia the other one, and, and I think it's a, fair to acknowledge is there's always a little bit of mistrust, [00:23:00] with big companies. And they, think we were in the business of, screwing partners over, when in reality we want, took create, win-wins, without partners. Again, partnership and collaboration is in the DNA of our company.

JC Garcia Garcia we know how to do it, how to do it well, and do it well enough that it can survive for centuries now, for not four years. That's how we measure success. So, we'll always seek to understand what that's value means to you. what are you seeking? How can we help? There's also the, misconception, and this may, may be more of a miscalibration when it comes to the perception of technical readiness and what it takes to bring the technology to market.

JC Garcia Garcia and often there's a little bit of tension.

JC Garcia Garcia there's also the, not great awareness about like what truly, truly is p and g scale, their scale and big company scale. We're talking, in some cases, hundreds [00:24:00] of thousands of metric, tons of a single ingredient, in some cases close to a million metric, tons of a single ingredient. There's a lot that has to be done to enable that kind of scale.

JC Garcia Garcia and obviously not many people are aware of that, of what it takes. the other mis misconception or, or misunderstanding it. That we are only interested in in product. We're interested in a lot more than just products, a lot of technical enablers, a lot of, early stage. Obviously we have across the whole value chain, big needs.

JC Garcia Garcia and we don't aspire to solve all of those needs internally. we were seeking partners to help us get there faster and again, creating those win-wins and fostering a healthy innovation ecosystem that is sustainable for years to go.

Karl before I ask the next question, JC or Amy, do you know what percentage of the products have innovations that come internally or externally?

Karl I'm not sure I can ask that question or if you guys [00:25:00] want to answer that.

JC Garcia Garcia I don't know if we can say a percentage, but, portfolio basis, we, we shoot for about 50% internal, 50% external. We are extremely active. our open innovation framework, it's called Connect Plus Develop, and we have not an army of people, but a, a, definitely critical mass, a very, very, robust and capable team of.

JC Garcia Garcia folks with technical background, finance, different kinds of background, just out there seeking partners and a lot of people like me and Amy in the technical front that are constantly getting out there, meeting the innovation, whatever it's. we should for about 50%, but don't take that number to the bank.

JC Garcia Garcia It's just an estimate.

Karl So when a founder, FCH approaches p and g, or someone is gonna propose an idea or creating an ecosystem with you, what's a [00:26:00] single most helpful way they can frame their work for a company that is at your scale, at that ENG scale?

Amy Trejo I think it's, it's really helpful if they understand what kind of products that p and g has and is developing and can frame what is the value proposition that they see for p and g from their technology or their product.

Amy Trejo What is the uniqueness that it can provide versus maybe what, they understand we have today. Or other similar technologies that exist out in the market. and, what does it really enable for us that is unique, because of that particular technology. One of the things that, we're starting to see is startups are not only coming to us with their technologies, but coming to us with product.

Amy Trejo Which I absolutely love because it shows that they understand, you know, the industries that we're in, and that we need to understand how this technology works in a product and what it can offer through the product to the consumers. So those are the kinds of things that really get our attention.

Amy Trejo And if you take that one [00:27:00] step further. And generate data that shows how it performs. So, because I'm in haircare, right? I think about the haircare, business. If, if you show me this technology product, it has good aesthetics, so I know that it doesn't make it really sticky or whatever. that's great.

Amy Trejo And then if you can show me how it performs for the consumer, that's even better. Right? The other thing that. That is nice about that is we understand they have enough scale to make even some prototype products because that's what's really important for us is to be able to. Take their technology and test it, test it in our own product, right?

Amy Trejo And so if they have enough at least to make their own prototypes, then we know that we can play with it in our products and learn a little bit more, you know, together with consumers or, in some of our other, value of, techniques. And so, those are the kinds of things that I think are really helpful for founders to know.

Amy Trejo They're the kinds of things that speed our interest and help us to get our, Management also supportive of moving forward, right? Because we always align [00:28:00] these things and it's great when you have a show and tell. It really helps to bring the story to life of how this technology can provide something unique that performs well in our products and for our consumers.

Erum Yeah. That's amazing. Yeah. Very helpful to all those innovators out there to show and tell, and when you have that conversation and you have the product to play with, the innovative innovation in your hands. Tell us a little bit more about that next step, right? You, played with it, it looks good, but what does it take to have that longer term ecosystem partnership with p and g or a large company?

Amy Trejo we start with, you know, what we believe that it can do and, frankly, sometimes where people think it works is not the only place or the key place that we might start to focus on, right? So we have a huge network internally and JC and I are both really well connected across all of our business units, and we might see opportunity for that in a different area or in multiple areas.

Amy Trejo And so I think what we would then do, and what we often [00:29:00] do is a next step. Is reach out to our colleagues internally, you know, talk to them about what we understand, and that's where the value of a prototype really comes in. Any data that is, available from the startup, we share that, internally to get, the experts in a particular space, aware of, you know what, at least data exists today.

Amy Trejo And then they may prototype and play with it. Often will ask for a sample to enable us to put it into one of our products and see. And then, like I said, we have a lot of different methodologies and, ways to test and evaluate that technology. And, if it performs well in some of those, it'll lead us to a next level conversation, and that next level conversation or next step can take a variety of different forms.

Amy Trejo It's very different based on what the opportunity is. but we, we don't have any one specific or prescriptive way to work. we do what works best and building on what JC said. It's really about a win-win, right? what is the company also seeking? What does a win look like for them? And how can we match that?

Amy Trejo And how can we tailor the development part of the connected [00:30:00] development to what works for both of us?

Erum Yeah, sorry, I don't wanna make a comment really quick because you mentioned how, if someone approaches you with a product or an ingredient, they might. I think it's going to be used for a certain product line, but it could be used for something else.

Erum And I recall when we visited p and g in the archive that there's like the enzyme that powers tie power so many different products. And it's, interesting because you could take one innovation and put it into different products because it has different use cases. Which I think is very important to think about and aligns with a lot of things that, you guys are seeing, we're seeing, and people have something so fundamental and like, oh, it could be used in haircare, it could be used in food, it could be used in all these different things.

Erum And, you know, it's, I think a challenge for this industry because where did they start? and you just never know, right? You just have to have these, start these conversations. so I just wanted to point that out [00:31:00] because you could have something and you think it's going to be used for food, but then all of a sudden it's like the next best thing in haircare.

Amy Trejo Exactly. And founders shouldn't be afraid to. Make a suggestion of how they think it could be useful, because we can then say, okay, yeah, I understand, and we see, you know, this potential too. So don't be afraid to just put something out there. We can react to that and build on it and, do that together.

Erum Yeah. That's why everyone needs to take, improv classes. So yes and

Karl we're seeing a lot of innovation with biotech across all sectors, across biology, materials, biomanufacturing, but where are you seeing the most compelling convergence right now?

JC Garcia Garcia most compelling convergence? That's such a good question.

JC Garcia Garcia And I wanna build first on, on the point that Amy was making, and it's related to the question you just asked Carl. we believe so much in the power of reapplication that we have corporate teams like mine, that their [00:32:00] main job is to create technology platforms that travel across the different business sectors and, and categories.

JC Garcia Garcia and if we do it well, we maximize. economy of scale and, the infrastructure that we had to, create over the years to bring that innovation life. it's not something that just happened. it's something that we are very intentional about exploring and.

JC Garcia Garcia the convergence. what I'm really excited is about the convergence of biology and chemistry, where we can leverage all of the chemistry, infrastructure and knowledge and optimization to the end degree of those chemical processes and enable some of that with. The new and emerging, biotech approaches.

JC Garcia Garcia And I think that's a winning formula. It, it also, the exploration for companies like PNG that may have more developed [00:33:00] infrastructure on the, on the chemistry front, biosis, the closely thing to plug and play in that infrastructure. And we're super excited about the, prospect. and,

JC Garcia Garcia By materials and obviously it's a, a big one, but I let them build on that.

Amy Trejo Yeah. I am super excited about the convergence of biotech with sustainability and that's probably not a surprise given my role working in the hair care sustainability, team. But, I really do think that biotechnology is an enabler of sustainability for us.

Amy Trejo And so when we, strive to become more sustainable with our products, so JC already mentioned the cold water, enabling, enzyme technologies, and we look for other examples like that. the old toolbox may not have enabled us to be as successful as some of the newer tools coming on biotech will enable us to be.

Amy Trejo And so then I think we can have that perfect marriage of the performance, with sustainability. And that just opens up a lot of possibilities for us in the CPG [00:34:00] space. And so I'm super excited about that convergence because we strive more and more for sustainable products, to help, Improve the lives of the world, consumers, and the planet.

Amy Trejo And we even have stated goals for things that we, you know, are going to do in that space. And so when we look for the ways and hows to get, you know, to where we wanna be, I think biotech is just a huge enabler. And that's opened up a lot for us internally and externally, right? We've gotten a lot of traction internally with our leadership as we talk about biotech as an enabler of sustainability.

Amy Trejo And so I'm super excited about that because frankly, it makes my job easier.

Erum Yes, yes. Sustainability is key. And we always say sustainability in biotech is table stakes. You know, it's really, an enabler of that. And thank you so much for highlighting that. so you mentioned that, you the partnerships are core.

Erum To ENG. It's part of, its DDNA. jc remember when we were speaking on the panel, it's in bio beta, you were saying, you know, Dr. Gamble, there are [00:35:00] partners, and so it started as a partnership. So of course there's partners. can you talk about some successful biotech partnerships that have happened throughout their years or even recently?

JC Garcia Garcia Initial partnerships are now part of the program company. we have based technologies that started up as partnerships and then they're now part of our brand portfolio. I mentioned a few, new chapter, line Up, Ferment, dietary supplements, is now part of the the p and g company.

JC Garcia Garcia the whole brand started as a partnership with, a couple of great players in the, Irish ecosystem, and that I was one up and, and part of, uh, brand portfolio, SK two outta Japan. Started as a partnership and has become a multi-billion dollar brand. So there's a large number of biotech enabled innovation that [00:36:00] has come to life, in the.

JC Garcia Garcia Merger Acquisi from, obviously we have a number of strategic partnerships with, different academic institutions and startups and, and all, and even big companies, across the spectrum. And the, the partnership with Base Camp, for example, is allowing us to expand what's possible with enzymes, not just in the laundry space, but beyond partnership.

JC Garcia Garcia All the big companies that have been announced in the, Probiotic and microbial engineering in France. very exciting. and the, with different academics all over, over the world. in the US a number of them and not just big ecosystems like Boston and the Bay Area. we go to the innovators whatever they are.

JC Garcia Garcia A number of important partnerships in the Midwest with Northwestern University, Wisconsin, Ohio State, locally with.

JC Garcia Garcia the [00:37:00] European ecosystem is thriving, in the uk. we are all over the place with, Newcastle, north Ria, Durham, and many more. obviously we have a presence in, Brussels, again, university where we do a lot with them in Asia as well. the Chinese ecosystem. A lot of exciting, innovation coming out, of China.

JC Garcia Garcia a lot of enablement that we're excited with. and, and we have a technical presence in Singapore as well. So the ecosystem is Asia, in Asia is, probably leveraged by, p and g and, and we're gonna be more excited. Anything you wanna add in?

Amy Trejo No, I think you've covered the globe pretty well, jc.

Amy Trejo but we do have a lot of partnerships across both academics and industry and, other companies, as JC said. we like to say that we're agnostic to where a technology comes from. We're willing to partner in any way with any kind of institution to help deliver the best products we can to the consumer.

Amy Trejo So no matter where you come [00:38:00] from or where you sit out there in the ecosystem, don't ever hesitate to approach us because we are very open to ideas, good ideas that come from anywhere.

Karl Yeah. And, um, Amy and jc, we all know each other from, Symbio Beta. I think Amy and I, you and I admitted to the first, but let's use that as an example of a conference that you attend.

Karl When you walk the floor at a conference like Symbio Beta, what signals tell you that a biotech company is ready to move from interesting science to potential real commercial partner?

Amy Trejo I think it goes back to kind of what I was saying before when I said, you know, I was talking about what, what's helpful for a startup to approach us.

Amy Trejo it's the ones that have. Some interesting product that resonates with the space in which we're looking to innovate. And, they're able to show us how their technology works. And again, as I had said before, if they can make a product with it, then so can we. Right? And then we can, play and learn with that technology.

Amy Trejo So if, we're [00:39:00] walking the floor, those are the, booths that are most interesting to us is we can already see how that's coming to life. Not that we won't necessarily have. Other ideas, as I mentioned before, about how to, you know, take that, technology further. But those are the ones that really catch our eyes, right?

Amy Trejo If, we can see a vial of it on the table, I think that's always very exciting for us because then that starts our minds churning about, oh, we could do this, we could do that. So,

JC Garcia Garcia mm-hmm. when we.

JC Garcia Garcia We think about the different moments of, truth, the first moment of truth. So the first moment of truth, obviously when we are making their, purchasing decision and we have to put a compelling, value proposition and compelling message and product that they choose us over. other products they, when they use it.

JC Garcia Garcia and that eventually they're gonna have to make, purchase decisions. And those are for the moments of truth, and it's really no different, for [00:40:00] the innovators in the space. If they see us as, their consumer, their prospective partner, and they have to win over with something compelling.

JC Garcia Garcia and sometimes like. seconds of minutes is all they have, right? So they have that, that pitch ready. so you, you capture our attention and imagination in a short period of time. But then, we want more than just that, more than just that swag, right? So that's when, elements, like the strong IP position, the product differentiation, the value proposition.

JC Garcia Garcia To, plane. If that's not there, it'd be good for a beer, maybe not more than that. so we to get to a, more sustainable partnership and maybe even a strategic partnership, more than the first moment of truth is gonna be needed. And that's when we get to those elements. And, IP is still king in this world.

JC Garcia Garcia [00:41:00] So do what you can to, to establish a, strong and robust IP position that we can defend together and, and reapply broadly.

Erum Amazing. Yeah. Thanks for sharing that. so we talked a lot about. Innovation, technology business. But let's talk a little bit more about the consumer experience and storytelling and marketing a bit.

Erum So what role does storytelling and messaging play in helping not only consumers but internal teams and external innovators align around emerging biotech innovation? Can you share some insights there?

JC Garcia Garcia Yeah, absolutely. Um, and I already alluded to some elements of storytelling. our products are out there, in applying for different jobs in, in our, and they have many choices, so.

JC Garcia Garcia These, um, job.[00:42:00]

JC Garcia Garcia Together a very case for them to be hired, by our consumers. And, and that's all storytelling. from what we put on the label, what a copy says, both, on tv, digital, and printed. again, it has to be very effective because sometimes we have seconds. Split seconds, to get their attention.

JC Garcia Garcia and one element that is often means, or underestimated, I would say is the, that we are not for the most part, direct to consumer company, even though that's a growing business for us, obviously with e-commerce. but we sell approach through retailer that we call customers, in brick and mortar on.

JC Garcia Garcia Unlike in the e-commerce platforms, there's limited real estate and there's a lot of players, competing for that real estate. And you have to make a very compelling case for why your innovation should be.[00:43:00]

JC Garcia Garcia Competing innovations and everybody's trying and they trying really hard. So, that's one the superpower. So, biotech that we think is gonna come into play, in some markets consumers are demanding, biotech enabled innovation, front and center. so we hope that becomes a global trend.

JC Garcia Garcia And that more and more consumers expect that from, from us and others, and that we're gonna be well positioned to win in that, future scenario.

JC Garcia Garcia the partnerships don't always come knocking at our door, so we have to get out there and communicate effectively that, that we're seeking partnerships.

JC Garcia Garcia What kind of partnerships we're. We're very flexible. but we have priorities too. one, going back to the misconception question or misunderstanding, is that we have unlimited budget. We have a healthy early budget, but it's not unlimited. So we, we have [00:44:00] priorities and, maybe another misconception that we're just writing checks and, and whatnot, we're very intentional, very focused.

JC Garcia Garcia and they, even though that focus is very broad.

JC Garcia Garcia We want to attract and retain top talent from around the world. So that's another element of storytelling. and then there's a whole, layer to that, which is internal communication. We have to. a big company with a hundred thousand plus employees and a global footprint, how we communicate the potential of biotech and bring awareness to it across the company, across all of the five different sectors that we play, multiple brands.

JC Garcia Garcia And, it takes a lot of storytelling, so it's a key element of our innovation, strategy, communication, and storytelling.

Erum Yeah, I just wanted to say, I mean, the billion dollar question here is you mentioned that consumers are demanding biotech products. What type of demand are you seeing? What are they, [00:45:00] what space, at least maybe not a specific product, but what demand or sentiment are you seeing that people are like, oh, this is type of biotech innovation that we want,

Karl or what market?

JC Garcia Garcia Yeah. Where it's the most apparent. Consumer in, is expecting more and.

JC Garcia Garcia From the Asia market, but some of it looks really like scientific posters and you see white charts and a very on those, on that copy. it's truly remarkable how different it can be from region to region. But it's exciting too. And, K-pop took on maybe k biotech, uh, and takes some as well and will, spread all over the world.

JC Garcia Garcia Our job is to prepare p&g to be what position to play in that future.

Karl Yeah. We've been looking for a K biotech person to [00:46:00] come on, because we understand that is a very dynamic market, especially on the personal care and beauty side. but thinking ahead, five years, how do you expect the relationship between consumer brands and biotech startups will fundamentally change?

Karl You just gave this example on the consumer. on the beauty side in Asia, but fundamentally, how do you think it's gonna change?

Amy Trejo I think the thing that I would love to see is that, that startups view larger companies as true partners. and recognize a little bit building on what JC said, that we have a more to offer than just. Right. we are a large company. We have a lot of resources. we can truly work together as development partners to develop their technologies into products, provide resources to help learn with consumers, about what the range of benefits of a given technology could be.

Amy Trejo bring those to life across more than maybe just the one product type that they were thinking about. Right? We have the access to our full product portfolio. And really [00:47:00] truly co-develop these things. My, greatest wish for would be that, you know, startups would, not be afraid to view us as those trust partners, in co-development because we, we truly do look for the win-win situation, for everyone that we work with.

Amy Trejo And then I think a little bit more broadly just about the technologies themselves. I mean, my wish for in the next, five, 10 years, is that there are just so many, technology options available that we, we have a hard time, exploring all of them because there's. And they're enabling the types of tricky jobs to be done that we have for our consumers.

Amy Trejo You know, they're enabling breakthroughs in those spaces because they uniquely can offer, what can we bring to life through biotech So I think the potential is all there and I, really look forward to the, coming years to see all of that come to life going forward.

Erum Yes, yes. And the last question I think you answered, but there are many answers to this question, but we want you to give us one, one piece of advice [00:48:00] to biotech innovators hoping to work with p and g. What would you want them to understand? The one thing you want them to understand, the one piece of advice.

JC Garcia Garcia the one piece of advice, that I will give them and then repeating myself here, but is like, reduce your idea to practice. Don't come to us with just ideas. A robust proposition, whatever product is, you get to define what product it means. It may not be what we call a product, but it is your product and it has an intrinsic value to so protected, reduce to practice.

JC Garcia Garcia maybe not, not in.

JC Garcia Garcia I position as possible. think preapplication. We'll definitely think preapplication when we partner with you. And that's one the beauty of partnering with a company like PNG, we can reapply [00:49:00] your technology ingredient product across many different business categories and sectors, and maximize the value, extracted from proposition and trust that we want.

JC Garcia Garcia To create those. Don't be so guard up that you don't make, a partner impossible. have some trust the process. we always try to do the, the right thing, do what's right, and we do right by p and g and our partners. So together we can do a little more than either one of those in.

Karl I don't know, Amy, if you wanted to add anything to that, any advice for biotech founders?

Amy Trejo I think I covered some of it already and, and, and jc you know, expanded on some of those things, but it's really, don't be afraid. Don't be afraid to approach us. if it's not going to work, we will tell you.

Amy Trejo So there's no harm and, and, and asking. Right. If you never ask us, then we will, we will never know. and so we'd rather. Have those conversations even early [00:50:00] because what we can do then is help guide you and say, Hey, this is interesting. I don't know that there's enough here right now for us to do anything, but maybe if you came back to us next year with this, that, or the other thing, then we can have some further conversation.

Amy Trejo And that gives them some guidance about what they can go off and do. And frankly, we've had some companies do that. They come back to us a year or two later and they say, Hey, we met you and we shared this, and now we have this. And we're like, oh, wow, that's super impressive. So, you know, don't be afraid at any stage because if it's not right, we'll tell you and we'll help guide you in, in what could be helpful, going forward.

Karl I think that's super useful. So we're going to move to the quickfire question part of this, interview. Iram and I will alternate asking you questions. We'd love to get answers from both of you. You can keep your answer as long or as short as you want. I'll ask the first question. it's early morning at a conference.

Karl What's your choice? Coffee matcha or pure adrenaline?

JC Garcia Garcia Early morning and early afternoon. Coffee.

Amy Trejo Coffee. We [00:51:00] can always find JC and I by the coffee stand. We are always there.

Karl Same here.

Erum Matcha for me. Okay. even though the question was not for me. Okay. So if you had to choose one head and shoulders or Pantene, no. Explaining aloud.

Amy Trejo Head and shoulders pan.

Karl Okay.

Karl Lab tour or factory floor. Where do you linger the longest?

JC Garcia Garcia Take that one first

Amy Trejo lab tour.

JC Garcia Garcia I think the factor, I learn a lot when I'm at the fact

Amy Trejo I miss the lab and so I would Take any chance I can to be in the lab.

Erum Amazing. Amazing. Okay. Conference swag. You secretly love or immediately toss.

Amy Trejo Oh. Llamas,

JC Garcia Garcia did you say llamas?

Amy Trejo Yes. We were recently in a conference together in Japan and they had stuffed llamas everywhere [00:52:00] so

Erum All right, this last one, text your Coke.

JC Garcia Garcia Water coffee.

Erum Yes. Keep it diplomatic

Karl coffee, always.

Erum was there any other questions that you wanted us ask before we wrap this up? Just wanted to make sure we cover everything.

JC Garcia Garcia Maybe just a recognition that p and g is not for everybody. if you want to, impact the hundred lives, and you're happy with that, we're definitely not the right partner.

JC Garcia Garcia If you are looking for a partner that can help you, bring your innovation to life and touch the life. Of the billions of consumers around the world, we'd be happy to partner with you and, that's our sweet spot.

Karl Yeah. I, I just wanna say in closing, you know, besides thank you so much for taking the time, you know, as we've gotten to know each other and have worked together and have, elaborated, I mean, one of the things [00:53:00] that really has stood out to me was that idea that you just expressed JC that like partnering with p and g.

Karl Gives a startup or a company the opportunity to impact, you know, more than half the world's population. You guys are everywhere. These are everyday products that people use all the time. And if biotech is gonna have an impact on the world the way that we want it to, we really need to have companies like p and g putting it out there in the world as people are using those products.

Karl And everything we talk about on this podcast is about how biotech makes the world better. So Tate, thank you so much for coming on and, speaking to our audience. We really appreciate it.

JC Garcia Garcia Oh, thank you Wolf for having us. it's been a pleasure to partner with you and to have this conversation with you today.

Erum Absolutely. Yay. Okay. Awesome. That's a wrap.

Erum Here

Erum So Carl, what'd you think of that episode?

Karl Amy and JC were such a pleasure to have on grow everything. I think our listeners are really gonna enjoy listening to this episode, and I think it's worth saying that, p and g most people think of as a chemistry company, but it's really a biology company.

Karl And when you look at its heritage. it's really interesting. It was a waste to value, biological waste to value company. Start off with one guy making candles and another guy making soap, and these two guys came together, and as JC said. Collaboration is in the name Proctor and [00:55:00] Gamble. And, their mission is to touch and improve lives now and for generations to come.

Karl And one of the things that I've always taken away from speaking with them is this idea of superior products that touch people's lives every day. What did you think, rah?

Erum Yeah. Yes. Superior products that touch people's lives every day. Um.

Erum so when they started in 1837, proctor. So William Proctor was an English candle maker, and James Gamble was an Irish soap maker.

Erum And funny story is that they actually got together because they were interested in, uh, women that were sisters and the father of those sisters were like, you guys should do a partnership and work together. And that's kind of how it started. This partnership and you know, we had the privilege of going to the p and g archives in Cincinnati, Ohio, and Wow.

Erum I mean, definitely museum quality. They do such a good job of keeping all of their [00:56:00] history and to be able to, first of all, see the soaps and candles that were there in, the late or the mid 18, early 18 hundreds Wow. In the early 18 hundreds. And to see how they. First looked at innovation and this waste to value taking waste products from the pork industry and creating soaps and candles.

Erum and then to be able to not only look at innovation from a product standpoint, but also from a branding and marketing standpoint, which we didn't talk a lot about in this episode. But they are up kind of the first companies to look at like, what's a logo look like? It was outta necessity to be able to differentiate different crates that were going on ships.

Erum And they created, I think it was like an X with a circle on it, and like this X with a circle was like a p and g product. And then they had the evolution of their logo across the centuries. and wow. I mean it's, it was such a amazing thing to see how innovation and business grew through the lens of p and [00:57:00] G's evolution.

Erum and. I was just like floored about how they took one innovation and were able to make several products out of that. And, you know, we saw that firsthand when we were, at the archive. it's, it's incredible. And I think one of the things, when we were working with p and g was to really unravel or un unlock all of those stories from the past and look at them from a biotech lens or a biological innovation lens.

Erum And we're able to draw some of those stories out, which was a great exercise to do with them.

Karl I'm glad you mentioned the marketing side of it because, p and g has always been a force when it comes to storytelling, understanding consumer preferences, even soap operas, our name soap operas because p and g was a big sponsor of soap operas and, I'm a huge fan of, the advertiser, David Ogilvy.

Karl David Oglevy has a book called On Advertising, and there's even a whole chapter dedicated to going up against [00:58:00] p and g if you're marketing. that part of the book is a little dated, but that's how important p and g has been, you know, as an American institution. So, We talk a lot about like the innovation and biotech side, but the marketing side and the innovation on the marketing side is just as significant.

Karl One of the innovations that I was really. super excited to learn about was this idea of enzymes in laundry detergents. And we'll put a link in the show notes to the first Ariel commercial, which is from the early 1960s. And Ariel was the first brand to use enzymes. And then, as that evolved over time, p and g introduced cold water enzymes.

Karl And what that has done is save, probably. Billions of dollars in terms of energy costs, because 90% of energy costs associated with laundry is heating the water. So if you can move to cold water without having to heat the water and you're able to [00:59:00] use enzymes, you're gonna save a lot of money.

Karl And that's great for the environment.

Erum Yes. Yes. And those enzymes, initially powered laundry detergent. Then again, fueled all these different products. So if you have the, the chance to go to the p and g archive, you do, I believe you need someone from p and g to. Get you in.

Erum But, they have this, like a, a web, a matrix where, you know, it has like the tide enzyme, but then all the other products that leverage this enzyme or some type of derivative of that enzyme or other types of cleaning, whether it's, surface cleaning of your home, or even cleaning your skin or your hair.

Erum it's amazing to see how they take innovation and then are able to fuel the products that we use every day. So. That was great. And then of course, the partnerships conversation. This was really the core of what we talked about because we know that, there are a lot of innovators out there that we meet that would love to work with a company like p and g, and we really wanted to, take the veil off of how do you actually partner [01:00:00] with a giant like p and g.

Erum And, a lot of great tips on how to get started. one of those things is the, the connect and develop, platform or the portal. And so we'll have a link to that in the show notes for you guys to check out. But, really taking the time to understand, how p and g works.

Erum I mean, they have a corporate arm, which is p and g, but then they have all their brands and their, even their brands are, segmented into different divisions, like, the beauty and personal care division, The personal care. there's different divisions and they have it all laid out for you just need to be able to think strategically and come up with a solid plan so you don't leave big companies like p and g or others guessing on how they can work with you, that there is a, a pathway that they can then noodle on with you.

Erum And I think that's a very powerful takeaway from not only this conversation with p and g, but also our previous episode with Aaron Morasco of Cargill. Also iterating. [01:01:00] Really come up with a solid plan and take into consideration how your innovation, your company, can drive value for the larger company.

Erum And, coming up, even from an economic standpoint, do the math, figure it out. And have a framework in which you can talk about true partnership.

Karl Amy mentioned that several of the brands that are now p and g brands started out as partnerships. new chapter Align, SK two were among those that she mentioned, and then a partnership that they have, whether that becomes an acquisition or something, we'll have to see how things work out in the future is with Bake Camp research, who they've partnered with to explore.

Karl Enzymes. and how to find new enzymes.

Erum there was a lot of great stories about p and g. There were a lot of great advice being, given to people that do wanna partner with p and g and.

Erum This is episode two of our CPG series. You know, we've heard from some large companies, now we're going to hear [01:02:00] from some innovators that are creating products that are consumer packaged goods or that fuel those products that are, being rewritten at a molecular level, that they're creating things for all sorts of applications in different ways.

Erum So please stay tuned for that. and I think that's the pod Carl. Do you wanna read us out? That's fine.

Karl I'll just say, thanks for listening. Follow us on YouTube, subscribe and like we've got a good number of people who are subscribing and liking us and leaving comments on YouTube. you can also watch the podcast on Spotify now that we're releasing video.

Karl You can see us in all our glory on every episode. So thank you for listening to the Grow Everything podcast.

Erum All right, that's the pod. Amy Trejo Quotes "Consumers don't care how you make the material that you provide to them—they care primarily about does this work, does this help me get the job done that I need to get done today?" "If biotech is gonna have an impact on the world the way that we want it to, we really need to have companies like P&G putting it out there." "Superior products that touch people's lives every day—that's what drives everything we do." "P&G is really a biology company when you look at its heritage—it was a waste to value, biological waste to value company." "New Chapter, Align, SK-II—these brands that are now P&G brands started out as partnerships." "Innovation isn't just about the product—it's about understanding consumer preferences and telling the right story." "We're constantly looking at how one innovation can fuel multiple products across our entire portfolio." "The enzymes that initially powered laundry detergent now fuel products for surface cleaning, skin care, and hair care." "Partnership means coming with a solid plan—don't leave us guessing on how we can work with you." "Our mission is to touch and improve lives now and for generations to come." JC Garcia Garcia Quotes "P&G is not for everybody. If you want to impact a hundred lives and you're happy with that, we're definitely not the right partner." "If you are looking for a partner that can help you bring your innovation to life and touch the lives of billions of consumers around the world, we'd be happy to partner with you—that's our sweet spot." "Collaboration is in the name—Procter and Gamble. It's who we are at our core." "Partnering with P&G gives a startup the opportunity to impact more than half the world's population." "We're not just a chemistry company—we're fundamentally a biology company." "Cold water enzymes have saved billions of dollars in energy costs because 90% of laundry energy goes to heating water." "Think strategically and come up with a solid plan—show us the pathway to partnership." "From an economic standpoint, do the math. Figure it out and have a framework for true partnership." "We take one innovation and create several products from it—that's how we scale impact." "If you want to work with P&G, understand how we work: our corporate structure, our brands, our divisions—it all matters."