16. Getting Schooled with BioBuilder

[00:00:00] Erum: Senator Todd Young, welcome to the Grow Everything podcast. We are so excited to have you on to talk about the National Security Commission on Emerging Biotechnology, and it's something that we're very excited to dis- discuss because there's a lot of action happening, and hopefully an act happening.

[00:00:20] Todd: Yes.

[00:00:23] Erum: Um, so let's learn a little bit about how you got here, 'cause your work has taken you deep into national security. You were in the Marines, thank you so much for your service, um, studied economics, and now you're in this world of biotechnology. So we want to know, what was the moment that made you realize biotech wasn't just a science story, but a matter of national security and opportunity?

[00:00:48] Todd: Well, uh, thank you so much, uh, Reem and, and, uh, Carl. Uh, it's just, it's great to be here and, and talk about this topic that, um, I didn't think I knew much about, uh, before I joined the National Security Commission for Emerging Biotech, and soon thereafter became chairman of, of, of the commission. But it's like a lot of things in life.

[00:01:10] Todd: If, if you look back, uh, you dr- you draw from your various life experiences. And, uh, the convergence, as you alluded to, of my military background, first in the Navy at the Naval Academy and then later, uh, in the US Marine Corps, um, uh, my time, uh, just being a Hoosier in central Indiana, where we have a lot of biotech expertise between Indiana University, Purdue University, Eli Lilly and Company, the leading biopharma company in the world.

[00:01:42] Todd: We have Corteva Agrosciences, number, uh, two pure play, uh, agbioscience company. We have animal health expertise. So, um, I've, I've just ha- through absorption, picked up a lot about biotech over the years because of tho- those companies. And then through this commission, I b- had the opportunity to, uh, visit with some of the world's foremost experts in national security, many of whom actually had deep expertise in the world of biotech, uh, our vulnerabilities, uh, and, uh, our strengths and, and how those might be marshaled to use biotech, uh, to win what, uh, we believe on the commission constitutes a generational, uh, tech competition with the People's Republic of China.

[00:02:28] Todd: And, and, and so, you know, among the most compelling things I, I learned along the way, and, and I think accessible to people who don't deal with biotech on a daily basis, is just the products, the sorts of things that can now be made through the wonders of biotechnology. And among those things, I usually begin with shelf-stable blood It's like DARPA has, has already developed the ability, uh, to take into the field, a United States Marine could carry a, a, a very transportable bag of what looks like almost Kool-Aid.

[00:03:07] Todd: It's like it's a powdered blood, and then it has, uh, a, a, a liquid agent that c- it can be combined with right there in the same packaging. And a US marine could take this out into a contested environment without the need for any sort of cold chain storage, and when blood is needed, be able to, like, produce their own blood, uh, by shaking this, uh, up.

[00:03:31] Todd: And, and, uh, so DARPA is moving to get this product quickly out into the field, perhaps in Iran, or, or if not in Iran, in a, in a se- future national security setting. But this is just one of countless examples of things that our innovators are already designing. And if we can get better at, uh, catalyzing our private sector, our innovators, our entrepreneurs, uh, we're not only gonna be able to design these products and imagine new ones, but produce them here in the United States for the purposes of national security.

[00:04:08] Karl: Yeah, that's amazing. Um, we know, uh, that biotech is the next frontier of global competition. From where you're sitting today, how's biology shaping, reshaping what national security looks like in this century?

[00:04:23] Todd: Well, I would say generally, I regard, and I think increasingly so many of my colleagues and, and, uh, other Americans regard our competition with China as not narrowly a...

[00:04:35] Todd: It's not a military competition or a diplomatic competition, uh, or even an economic competition. It's a technological competition. And, uh, if we can harness the best of our system and adapt it to this 21st century, uh, uh, competitive, uh, effort, uh, against China and other state capitalist countries and economies, then, um, I do believe that we will, our values will prevail in the 21st century.

[00:05:06] Todd: As it relates specifically to biotech, we've seen its potential, and I just alluded to one small example of its potential to compress supply chains, which gives us economic security, but also can help us in time of war, when historically we've seen that, uh, winning wars is, is very much about logistics.

[00:05:27] Todd: And, and so we have the ability to compress supply chains. Uh, we can develop new critical products, uh, to solve hard problems. Uh, we can come up with new ways of manufacturing. In fact, this is, this is already an area where, uh, unfortunately, the commission discovered that maybe China has an edge on us in this area.

[00:05:50] Todd: And, uh, it, it involves Uh, using agricultural feedstocks, uh, typically, putting them in a tank and coming up with a formula to, uh, manufacture through biological means things that, uh, historically we've, we've always relied on conventional manufacturing means. To give you some sense of just what the possibilities are here, 70% of the products that are currently manufactured through conventional means, uh, can, uh, today, through the wonders of biotech, be grown, can be grown and, and, and, and, uh, manufactured through biomanufacturing.

[00:06:29] Todd: That, that statistic comes from McKinsey. Of course, you know, the, the subtext to that claim is that we need to get more predictable at producing things through biomanufacturing. Uh, it's very hard to get good at this unique skill. And we need to, uh, be able to manufacture many of these things at scale to bring the cost down.

[00:06:53] Todd: And that's where I think, uh, we, uh, one- once that begins to happen in more areas, uh, we will become acclimated to biotech, uh, uh, designed and produced things, um, uh, throughout our lives, uh, to include for the purposes of, of, of keeping us safe and secure.

[00:07:14] Erum: Senator, that warms my heart that you're talking about that.

[00:07:16] Erum: I mean, this, the whole idea of using biomanufacturing to grow everything, this is fundamentally what we talk about here on the podcast. So to hear you here, to hear you say it is like, I feel a bit more confident in America's ability to maybe win in this, you know, race for, you know, biomanufacturing and being an innovator in the space.

[00:07:41] Erum: So thank you for saying that.

[00:07:43] Todd: Well, I, I, I'm very confident that we can do this. I mean, we've sent people to the moon, just sent them to the moon again, right? Uh, and we, we, we've, we've, uh, uh, cured all sorts of diseases. I mean, America, um, if, if, if, if we can just draw on the best talent from, uh, within our country and beyond, uh, if, if, if we can draw on the strengths of our own system, but then adapt those things to here and now current needs and current times, then, uh, I don't think we can be beaten, but it does require focus.

[00:08:19] Todd: We can't do everything. We have to have a plan to define what constitute nationally important, uh, priorities, uh, whether it's winning a space race or, um, uh, deploying autonomous vehicles or, in this case, uh, ensuring that we have best-in-class biomanufacturing capabilities, and then just going out and, and, uh, unleashing the entrepreneurship innovators, uh, private capital, uh, and private sector to, uh, to solve these problems.

[00:08:52] Todd: And, and so, um, uh, I don't underestimate the, the difficulty of some of the individual challenges, but over the long scope of history and headed into the future, um, there's no doubt in my mind, uh, we're gonna win this race because the American people are starting to wake up to the, the importance of this, uh, problem set.

[00:09:13] Erum: Yes. Let's go. Okay, great. Yeah, let's go. So, let's go. Um, yeah, so let's talk about some efforts, um, that are coming through, um, and some action that's happening. Um, can you talk to us a little bit about the America's Living Library Act? How did it get started, and how's it going?

[00:09:32] Todd: Well, uh, I'm glad you asked about this legislation.

[00:09:35] Todd: I'm actually very proud of it, because this legislation would be the first ever effort in our country, uh, that would, uh, treat biological data as a strategic asset important to our national security. China, many years ago, had, uh, understood how biological data, the sequencing of li- all kinds of living things, and using that information could inform new things, uh, new products and industrial products, uh, new treatments, uh, in, in, uh, biopharma, new seed varieties in, in agbioscience.

[00:10:18] Todd: And so, uh, what the America's Living Library Act proposes is that we begin to develop a database of these unique traits, uh, that are, are found out in nature, and, um, and, and we do that by, of all things, sequencing our public lands, starting with a handful of national parks here in the United States, which are among the most biodiverse places on Earth.

[00:10:44] Todd: So if you can imagine what we propose, which is, um, sending people out to synthesize the DNA of flora and, and fauna and, and every non-human living thing in our public lands, imagine what- A valuable database of traits that would provide for our innovators and entrepreneurs to harness to solve all kinds of problems that are hard to even predict.

[00:11:11] Todd: And, and this project would, would be able to drive an economy and innovation at the intersection of AI and biotech in a way that, uh, work- has a whole lot of stakeholders excited in, in this country, and, uh, provide a new value proposition for all of our, our beautiful public lands and, and all of their wondrous biodiversity.

[00:11:38] Karl: That's so great. Um, you mentioned, you know, that, or one of the things that Bill talks about is h- uh, the data will be AI ready, and today so much genomic data isn't AI ready. Who's gonna define what that standard is, and then who gets to decide what the resulting data gets used for?

[00:11:56] Todd: We actually spent a lot of time thinking about this and, and, uh, uh, understood that Congress, uh, 535 sometimes spirited kind of raucous members, is probably not, not the ideal institution to micromanage data standards, right?

[00:12:14] Todd: Uh, but we do have very talented entities within government that historically have established standards. Uh, and, and, uh, the, the National Institute of Standards and Technology is, uh, certainly among, and, and I would argue foremost of those entities. Well-equipped, uh, within the White House and therefore, uh, you know, if this is going to be a national priority as we propose, uh, it's, uh, it's important for not to have a, uh, an unwieldy democrac- uh, uh, a bureaucracy which is far removed from the White House.

[00:12:49] Todd: So NIST is well situated in that sense. But they have the expertise to come up with this, uh, these standards in consultation with various industry stakeholders, national s- security stakeholders, and even other friendly governments, with an eye to eventually harmonizing our standards so that our values and, um, our, our businesses and others, uh, can define the biotech standards for the 21st century, not our adversaries with their export-oriented economies.

[00:13:26] Todd: We want our standards of consumer protection and ethics and openness built into the bioeconomy, and we have the ability to, to establish those standards if we're intentional about it now.

[00:13:40] Erum: Yeah. Yeah. Incredible. And so the Living Library Act isn't just going to create this data, um, database. Um, it's not just a collection of samples, but it's going to be this shared resource for researchers and innovators It also carves out funding for education and outreach at the parks, which is so exciting.

[00:14:00] Erum: I cannot wait for that. I hope that happens. But, and you mentioned this a little bit, and maybe you can continue walking us through this line of thinking, what kind of discoveries or industries do you hope this kind of open genomic infrastructure might unlock?

[00:14:16] Todd: Well, the possibilities, uh, to me feel almost endless.

[00:14:20] Todd: I think of, um, uh, you know, in terms of categories, I think of material science. That's one of the top things that comes to, to mind for me. Super light, super, uh, resilient materials that we've never conceived of. I recently read an article, uh, y- you know, in National Geographic, there's been excitement, uh, uh, uh, among a certain set of, uh, engineers for a long period of time about spider webs and just how incredibly strong they are if you could figure out how to replicate, uh, what our spiders produce and, and, uh, uh, to scale, uh, that sort of production in an economical way.

[00:15:00] Todd: But I'll tell you, uh, as, as a Homer, as someone who's from Indiana and very proud of Indiana's contribution to biotech, let me give you one, uh, uh, fairly well-known example in our parts, and that's the discovery of heat-loving microorganisms, uh, in geysers in, in Yellowstone. This discovery, uh, came from some Indiana University researchers, uh, who were working out in the field in, in Yellowstone.

[00:15:30] Todd: They discovered this new microorganism, and that discovery, because of the qualities of, of those microorganisms, led to today's PCR test of all things. And, uh, so we just don't know, um, what sort of eureka moments some of the most talented people in their disciplines are going to be able to have on, on a, on account of revealing the traits of, of countless living things in, in nature.

[00:15:58] Todd: And it's not just, with the wonder of AI, it's not just isolated scientists, uh, and, uh, other inspired people who will make these connections. Now our algorithms can help make these connections for us, and so we're designing tools that'll allow us to, um, uh, solve, come up with, with multiple solutions, uh, to cancers and, and, um, um, uh, all sorts of problems that, uh, uh, we've, we've long wanted to solve.

[00:16:31] Karl: Yeah. There's... The, the... I, I'm glad you said that and, you know, for, I think our l- many of our listeners are familiar with the polymerase chain reaction that you mentioned. I didn't realize that that, uh, organism was discovered at Indiana University, which is, it, it, that discovery transformed biotech research

[00:16:48] Todd: Uh, and, and so we're of course very proud of that and, um, you know, in addition to our football team.

[00:16:55] Karl: Yeah.

[00:16:55] Todd: And

[00:16:58] Karl: So there's often a gap between scientific discovery and real-world applications. From your vantage point, what's the biggest barriers preventing breakthroughs in biotech from reaching scale?

[00:17:11] Todd: You know, if, if, if you ask the entrepreneurs, um, and I do, um, they say, you know, "We need capital. We need investment, especially in the earliest stages."

[00:17:22] Todd: So government in our country has historically tried to de-risk fundamental science research, right? And then there gets to be a debate as you get closer towards what might someday constitute commercialization, you know, how much involvement should, should government have? Uh, but however you tackle this problem set, we know that our innovators and entrepreneurs benefit from risk capital and, uh, we need to create the conditions so that, uh, they can have more of it.

[00:17:55] Todd: They can have more of it because, um, you know, I... it's, it's just a reality that a lot of our, our, our greatest breakthroughs scientifically don't find their way out of the lab. Or unfortunately, sometimes they, they get funded through means in other countries and, uh, we're, we're late to the game in terms of benefiting from these discoveries and manufacturing them here in the United States.

[00:18:23] Todd: And we wanna get to a point, uh, because it's a unique expertise that we need to develop and because our economy could benefit it. Wanna get to the point where we're not just, um, inventing some of the greatest products, but we're also producing them here and providing opportunities, uh, at every end of the, the wage and income scale for Americans to benefit from this new, um, accelerating bio-economy.

[00:18:53] Karl: Yeah. That's, that's great. So let me ask a, a... one m- more questions about, about the living library. Um, let's just say the living library existed today and was fully populated, what do you think a researcher or a founder could do with that, that they wouldn't be able to do if that didn't exist?

[00:19:12] Todd: Well, I, I, I think they could, they, they could have a menu.

[00:19:16] Todd: This is how a layperson thinks about it, right? If I'm looking, uh, not particularly versed in genotypes, but if instead I'm thinking about traits, phenotypes, right? Bioluminescence, um, climate resiliency, um, flavor traits, right? And, and, and, uh, this could conceivably provide, uh, a repository of phenotypes that researchers could look through and borrow from as we look to cr- uh, create new things, new products.

[00:19:58] Todd: And to me, that's just incredibly, um, exciting, uh, to learn about that possibility. And, um, you know, the s- the, the sky's sort of the limit. So that's, that's what I think could be possible. Uh, and, and, uh, it of course would have all kinds of implications for national security, which may, in the end, focus the minds of people here in Washington, because that's our most important responsibility, but it's gonna have spillover benefits in the areas of consumer products and, uh, saving lives, uh, extending lives, improving lives.

[00:20:37] Todd: Uh, who knows, maybe even entertainment, although I can't currently conceive of a way in which we'd be more entertained by, you know, uh, uh, coming up with a... Well, I suppose, you know, um, h- how about a bioluminescent peach? That might be fun for a few seconds, right? Yes. Uh, you know- I see it. Does

[00:20:57] Erum: a

[00:20:57] Karl: movie ... you heard it here first.

[00:20:58] Erum: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Or like the Emoji Movie, or like the, the one about the emotions, like Inside Out, but just microbes.

[00:21:05] Todd: That, yeah. You're onto something there. I don't, I don't know if there's a way before this airs to- ... you know, be able to patent that idea, but

[00:21:16] Erum: That's for free. That's for the people. Okay.

[00:21:18] Todd: All right.

[00:21:18] Todd: That's, and- ... it's a, it's a public good now, right? Yes.

[00:21:22] Erum: Yeah. Exactly. Exactly. Okay. Well, um, we have our final full question, then we have some quick questions, but we like to visioneer here on the podcast to give people some ideas of what the future can look like when it comes to using biology and biotechnology.

[00:21:41] Erum: So I wanna know, what does success look like for US leadership in biotechnology? What needs to be true for scientists, infrastructure, and collaboration for that vision to become reality?

[00:21:54] Todd: Well, for, for me, and I alluded to it a couple of minutes ago, but it, it, it means we continue to have the world's most talented researchers coming to the United States because this is where the action is, staying in the United States, trained in the United States.

[00:22:11] Todd: We, we have some of our young people incredibly excited about biotech and motivated to learn a discipline that's not always intuitive because they sense that's, uh, uh, where they could have meaningful work someday. A- uh, uh, so all of those things, uh, uh, it will be part of the future of biotech in, in this country.

[00:22:33] Todd: And then There, there needs to be an opportunity for us to produce the inventions of today and tomorrow here in the United States. And, and, and what that looks like in a state like mine, um, I can imagine it. Uh, it's distributed manufacturing. It's, it's, it's having manufacturing out in farm country USA, where we take what were previously, uh, not particularly valuable or even, uh, regarded as costs on the balance sheet, ag waste products, and using them as the feedstocks to a modern bioeconomy.

[00:23:10] Todd: And then, you know, for those who carry, care about climate issues or just general economic efficiency, you can be closer to where the, the consumers are. And if this sounds a little disruptive, this, this is gonna be highly disruptive. But if you have command of, of these forces and feel in control because you and your leadership has, have prepared you for this future, it could be enormous opportunity for us, um, to incentivize further good ideas and produce them and, and for our consumers to, uh, and workers to really benefit from this.

[00:23:45] Todd: So that's, uh... Those are some of the hallmarks of, uh, my, uh, vision of the bioeconomy. And I, I think you'll sear- hear echoes maybe better articulated from some of the, uh, subject matter experts, but you'll hear hints and echoes of what I just laid out, uh, from most people who've spent a little time with this topic.

[00:24:08] Karl: Yeah. Thanks so much, Senator, for saying that. I mean, the idea of distributed biomanufacturing in the places where we have agricultural feedstock is something that we talk a lot about, and we see that as, uh, absolutely possible, and it is our future. Um, and it's right in front of us. Um, so I'm gonna a- we're gonna ask you a couple of quick-fire questions.

[00:24:31] Karl: Uh, I'll start with the first one. Which national park would you personally send scientists to for the first... for hidden biotech gold?

[00:24:42] Todd: Oh, well, goodness. Well, Yellowstone comes to mind because of Indiana University's, uh, earlier finding there. Uh, but, uh, we, uh, uh, we are very proud in Indiana of our first national park.

[00:24:55] Todd: It was recently designated Indiana Dunes National Lakeshore. And the reason it was chosen as a national park is the same reason generations ago the Everglades were selected Some people questioned why the Everglades would be selected, believe it or not, as a, as a national park because it didn't fit, uh, the mental paradigm many people had, trees and all the rest.

[00:25:18] Todd: And the reason was because of its biodiversity. And what we've seen in Indiana is a unique coexistence of a biodiverse landscape and heavy industry of all things. We figured out how to make those things work together. So if we could come up with yet another unique value proposition for that national park, it would create an economic incentive and a national security and economic inser- uh, uh, security imperative to protect that beautiful national park for the next generation.

[00:25:54] Erum: Ooh, wow, yeah. I wanna go and check that out. Very cool.

[00:25:57] Todd: Oh, you should. It's one of the most visited national parks in the country now, and much of that admittedly has to do with the fact that it's, uh, in the sha- uh, shadow of Chicago, Illinois, and, uh, it's easy to reach from, uh, Chicago. So please come check it out sometime.

[00:26:13] Erum: Yeah, absolutely. Okay, next question. If the Living Library uncovers something huge, what's the dream outcome?

[00:26:21] Todd: Ooh. Um, the dream outcome, everyone, uh, lives as long as they wanna live and, uh, and, and, uh, the inventors get rich off of it and are highly philanthropic and, uh... You know, listen, um, I'll be a little less, uh, casual with the response.

[00:26:40] Todd: The dream outcome, um, is for others to draw inspiration from that and, uh, here again, more young people to decide to, um, commit themselves to getting involved in biotech and contributing to this new bioeconomy, and I, I think that's an imminently achievable goal and, um, it's something I'm excited about. As a father of four kids, and they're thinking about their futures, uh, I would love it if they found some way to, uh, apply their talents and, and gifts, uh, in the world of, of biotech.

[00:27:17] Todd: Yeah, I love that.

[00:27:18] Karl: So be honest, have you Googled a biotech term recently, and if so, what was it?

[00:27:23] Todd: Oh, gosh, probably almost daily. Um, and, and, uh, you know, it was fairly early on as, as chairman of this commission that I realized I don't have to be the biotech expert, right? I mean, we, we regulate and, and, uh, oversee airplane safety, and I'm not an aviation expert, but we have to ask good questions and, and, and be, uh, skilled on the lingo.

[00:27:48] Todd: So, you know, was it nematode? Um- Yeah. Yeah. I was, uh... I, I, I went on a, a, a congressional delegation trip with a handful of colleagues and- Uh, to Antarctica of all places, and there aren't a whole, whole lot of, of little, you know, things that are able to live down there in the, in certain extreme temperatures.

[00:28:12] Todd: But, uh, I had to revisit some of my advanced biology terms from high school to, uh, to keep up with the talented, um, uh, university students, American university students that, that were looking how to apply their talents in, in various beneficial ways.

[00:28:30] Karl: Amazing.

[00:28:31] Erum: Yes. Okay, final one. So if or when you have to explain biotech at a dinner party or out on the Hill or, or to colleagues of yours, what's your one-liner?

[00:28:42] Todd: Oh, gosh. So the one... This may be a run-on sentence, but the, the, the one-liner is the same biotech that we use to produce pills and seeds, uh, can be used to defend our values and our way of life. Because it's the same science, right? Uh, this is not the, the sentence has ended, but it tends to get the attention of members of Congress, uh, about what they're missing, uh, as it relates to biotech, and it really is.

[00:29:17] Todd: It's, it's about a lot more than just, uh, the biotech that we mostly hear about. Um, it's, it's about this whole bioindustrial area, and it's about biomanufacturing and, um, even, even certain services, um, uh, that are being offered through biotech. And, um, most of us had never really had much exposure to that until it was, uh, uh, you know, until I was on the commission and, uh, my colleagues are in- increasingly learning about it.

[00:29:51] Karl: That's amazing. Well, Senator Young, we have been so blessed and happy to have you here on the Grow Everything podcast. Thank you so much for taking the time from your busy schedule to talk with us today.

[00:30:04] Todd: Gosh, uh, the, the show is great, and, uh, thank you for giving me an opportunity to, uh, talk about, uh, biotechnology, the work of the commission, and America's Living Library Act.

[00:30:16] Erum: Thank you, and thank you for your service.

[00:30:19] Karl: Yeah. We'd love to have you come back on in a year or two after the, the act has, uh, you know, been implemented and we can see some progress.

[00:30:26] Todd: That'd be great. Yeah. Thank you so much.

[00:30:29] Karl: Thank you so much.

[00:30:31] Erum: That's a wrap