145: "Decentralized Science 101: Defining DeSci with the Experts"

[00:00:00] Karl: Hey rum, how are things going?

[00:00:01] Erum: Things are going well. I'm excited for today's episode of the Grow Everything Podcast, where we talk about everything around biotechnology and how it's going to transform our economy to be more sustainable, be more exciting, resilient.

[00:00:17] Erum: and I'm excited to talk about all the new and the great things that are happening.

[00:00:20] Erum: Tell me what's going on in your world, Carl.

[00:00:22] Karl: Well, so today is September 1st, and for a lot of people they are planning on back to school. And so for them that means, summer is over, but summer is not officially over until the solstice, which I think takes place usually around the 21st. I know you were traveling, we have a long, weekend in the United States. I stayed in Brooklyn. It's very tame and very quiet, but I'm excited for kind of this transition into the fall. How

[00:00:50] Karl: about you?

[00:00:51] Erum: I'm excited. I've been traveling about up in Canada and really just trying to get some deep thoughts in, try to have some time to myself, which is impossible when you go to a place where you're meeting tons and tons of family. But I am seeking solace and finally getting around to Reading Bossy Pants by Tina Fey, who I admire.

[00:01:12] Erum: One fact, Tina Fey went to my high school, or actually went to her high school, upper Dhabi High School. So she talks a lot about , growing up in that area. So , I relate to a lot of what she's talking about. that's really cool to read. But she also talks about her career and her motivations and, , , tips and tricks all in a very funny way and.

[00:01:32] Erum: I love it. So if anyone has read that and wants to have a micro book club about it, shoot me some messages. , I love to talk about Tina Fey and just everything she stands for.

[00:01:43] Karl: I wanna read that too. Okay. So on a more somber note so we are entering September and September is Blood Cancer Awareness Month. And I just thought I would mention it because there's something like almost 2 million people live with or are in remission from some kind of blood cancer like leukemia, lymphoma, or myeloma. These cancers account for something like 10% of all new cancer diagnoses. I'm under the impression that these cancers are very treatable, so just making people aware that this is a month where we think about blood cancer and maybe we will bring it up again during the course of the month. We are here to talk about the impact of biotech on our lives and that we don't talk too much about biopharma.

[00:02:26] Karl: That is an interesting

[00:02:27] Karl: area of research.

[00:02:28] Erum: Yes. Yeah. And in our day jobs, which is podcast is not our day job people, this is our side job. we work with biopharma companies and there's a lot. Of great innovation when it comes to treating cancer from cancer vaccines to, , CAR T therapy.

[00:02:43] Erum: I'm sure you guys have heard about this, but, , it's exciting. It's just, , one of those things that the innovations there, it's just not evenly distributed yet. So, , I think it's looking good. For cancer therapy. So it's great that they have a month dedicated to blood cancers and, , , let us pay attention and see what we can do to help this movement.

[00:03:02] Karl: And you had written something also in our show notes about the brainwashing itself at

[00:03:08] Karl: night. What's that all about?

[00:03:09] Erum: Oh yeah. So I came across this piece of news in one of my WhatsApp chats 'cause I have lots of 'em with different biotech communities. And someone shared this article in Scientific American, which I'll put in the show notes, but it talks about how during non REM sleep, , scientists have been looking at EEG waves.

[00:03:28] Erum: And they noticed that not only do they help consolidate memories, which many of us might know about, but they also propel cerebro spinal fluid through the brain, Flushing out waste much more effectively than when you're awake.

[00:03:40] Erum: So when you're sleeping, you're actually having a detox of your brain and it's good for you. you need to clean out your brain. So it's important to have sleep because if you don't get good sleep, it also leads to dementia.

[00:03:52] Erum: There's, , signs of. Some correlation there, which again needs to be the article. , it's good for people that are looking at sleep. I think there's been more and more stories in the mainstream about the importance of sleep. People buying the Ora rings. I have one. are noticing how important it is and not to just I just need to stay awake all the time 'cause I have so much work to do.

[00:04:12] Erum: Sleep's important. And also, Tina Faye mentions the importance of sleep in bossy pants.

[00:04:16] Karl: It's super interesting that you mentioned this because this weekend I went down the rabbit hole on, , sulforaphane. Have you heard about that?

[00:04:23] Erum: No, what's up?

[00:04:24] Karl: this is related more to some of the biohacker stuff that we've talked about. Sulforaphane, it turns out, is a sulfur rich compound that's found in cruciferous vegetables, like broccoli sprouts, and it turns out that it offers neuroprotective and cognitive benefits.

[00:04:38] Karl: So people take it because. The studies are showing that it helps improve the immune system in your brain. And so I've been going down the rabbit hole. I just watched a, , Dr. Rhonda Patrick video where she talked about the five supplements she would recommend for the elderly, not that I'm elderly, And so it's one that I hadn't really looked at before, , the other things she mentioned, which we know are things , , taking a multivitamin, taking the Coenzyme Q precursors. Taking, , creatine if that's something you're interested in, but this sulur ahan is not one that I'd really looked at before.

[00:05:11] Karl: And so when I started going down the rabbit hole, I was oh, this is something I want to add

[00:05:15] Karl: to the staff.

[00:05:16] Erum: Yes, I mean, there's been so much research on different and supplements that. Are super effective in all sorts of ways. And it's interesting 'cause I participated in this panel discussion and one of the points that the panelists mentioned was that there are unique molecules that are naturally found in foods, but just not in accessible quantities.

[00:05:38] Erum: You would have to eat 10 pounds of broccoli or 10 pounds of, blueberries in order to. Get the efficacy that you need to help. So these supplements are very interesting, especially if they can be produced in a way that is bioavailable and not just made through hard chemistry or brute force chemistry.

[00:05:58] Erum: And maybe it could be less effective. So, . Very excited to see, do more research in the space. I think there a lot of people are working towards it. We know people in different companies.

[00:06:08] Erum: One person that comes to mind is Michael Sen of Exosomes. , and his episode is talking about A molecule that was found in him. But , in order to access it, you would have to eat a lot of quantities so they're able to produce it. very interesting to see that there are a lot of companies that are being created around these molecules that help us in all sorts of ways.

[00:06:26] Erum: So stay tuned, watch this space. Listen to this space for more nutraceutical development news.

[00:06:33] Karl: Yeah, absolutely. So I think what we're gonna do since given this is a holiday week. , We're gonna do something a little bit different, which we also think is something special. Instead of one conversation, what we're gonna do is have you listen to a collection of voices that are shaping the future of decentralized science.

[00:06:52] Karl: We thought we'd start off by having these people, people who we already interviewed, give us our definitions of DeSci to help people better understand this. Iran, do you wanna

[00:07:01] Karl: talk about this a little

[00:07:02] Karl: bit?

[00:07:03] Erum: Yes, absolutely. So yes, DeSci week de decide, couple weeks. 'cause it's a deep topic. , There's a, a lot of different technologies that converge in order to make DeSci happen. But, , we don't wanna necessarily talk about the technology because people get lost in the sauce, right? So they wanna be able to talk about the outcomes, why is de science so important?

[00:07:23] Erum: And there is. A lot of value in these side to democratize science, make it more accessible, make it more, , fair. I would say, , , take it out of the institutions into people's hands and you'll hear from our previous guests that all have the same take, but they talk about decentralized science in different ways, , and how they organize around decentralized science.

[00:07:45] Erum: And there's, , an organization framework called. Decentralized autonomous organizations or DAOs. So you'll hear people from these DAOs. some people that we've interviewed, for example, you'll hear from Laura Menini of Athena Dao, which focuses on women's health. And I recently went to one of their webinars and wow, the companies that they put money behind are doing incredible things and unlocking an unveiling unique.

[00:08:12] Erum: Biochemical pathways that women experience just because of they're different, ? , And we all know that a lot of the healthcare interventions and, , science that has come about has, , , been focused on looking at men , over women, , over the years. there's. Good reasons and bad reasons for that.

[00:08:29] Erum: But anyway, , I'll stop there. , We also have Albert Annis of Valley Dao, and they look at synthetic biology applications, , and , I saw Albert did a LinkedIn post about the resilience of having DAOs over venture-backed companies, which is very interesting. , And then Nicholas Ann Zinger, who we met, , in person a couple of weeks ago in New York City.

[00:08:52] Erum: He's the founder of Infin vc, which is located in Prospera, which is a crypto city. It's a crypto city in Honduras, , but it is, . Its own nation state and in looks at unique longevity therapies and how to use, not necessarily how to use DeSci, but how to look at regulation in a unique ways.

[00:09:13] Erum: But DeSci is a part of it because they're located in this nation state that's operated on crypto. And then Jocelyn Pearl, who we love, has been looking at biohacking. , She's a doctor who also has worked in biotech. , One of the first people we spoke with about the site, . , So Jocelyns been involved in different dolls and decentralized movements, so you'll hear from her. And finally, our friend Michael Fisher of Stadium Science, but also the founder of deci, NYC, one of the places that I first learned about the value of decentralized science. Sings a song of the importance of democratizing science, and Desai is a mechanism in which that is enabled.

[00:09:52] Erum: But tell us, Carl, why is Desai important? Mm-hmm.

[00:09:56] Karl: look, we're living in very interesting times and, , government funding, particularly in the scientists, , in the United States seems to be very much in question. , , funding is taken away, lawsuits happen, , then funding is reinstated. And so I think there's a big question as to whether.

[00:10:13] Karl: scientists are gonna continue to receive the kinds of funding that they had previously received from the US government. , And that really puts, I hate to say it, it really puts our future at peril because basic research is the economic driver. And you can just see that by the amount of, , GDP that China's investing in basic research and science.

[00:10:33] Karl: So, , having alternative funding mechanisms for scientists, not just those that are in academia, but those that are building companies, I think is really important, , and so I think Dsci is one of the alternatives, and I'm really excited to see the way that Dsci. Evolves and makes an impact , in science.

[00:10:52] Karl: One group that we haven't had on here yet is Hair Dao and we wanna get them on the podcast because they've basically developed a really good model where they're taking old compounds that are already FDA approved for certain indications and testing them to grow hair, , which is a gigantic market, and they've been very successful at this and we'd love to give them on to talk about this.

[00:11:12] Karl: And next week what we're gonna do is we're gonna, continue this conversation with Benji Lebowitz. Of molecule Dao and also pump science. And he's busy how decentralized communities can accelerate biotech innovation even further. So with that, let's let our guests take it away and tell us what the definition is of decentralized science.

[00:11:34] Karl: And first we'll start with Laura McKinney of Athena Dow.

[00:11:37] Erum: .

[00:11:37] Erum: Next up we have Albert Annis of au.

[00:11:41] Erum: Now let's listen to Dr. Jocelyn Pearl, give her thoughts around deci and DAOs. And finally, our friend Michael Fisher of Stadium Science. And also the organizer of DeSci NYC. Let's let Michael take it away.

[00:11:57] Erum: We did it. Wow. I cannot believe we had all those people that are advocating for DeSci and DAOs. I mean, it's really to us a new way of doing science and making it more accessible to people. But any thoughts, Carl on your side about DeSci?

[00:12:17] Karl: Look, I think this is evolving so quick. And, , I think it's really important to understand it because at the same time that you've got decentralized finance evolving and becoming actually very important. , Decentralized science is also evolving and I think going to become also very important. , I remember early on having a conversation, , with, Ari Lipman of Mars VC and also biosphere.

[00:12:42] Karl: We were talking about, , having a cloud lab that was funded by Dsci and having that cloud lab would enable scientists from around the world to basically make their work available to a lot of people. And that to me was a fascinating idea. I haven't seen how that has evolved, but I think we're gonna see that thing become reality very quickly.

[00:13:01] Karl: Iran, what did you think?

[00:13:02] Erum: I loved it. I mean, I. And now our audience now you are listener. You're a prime to be a decentralized science advocate. So get ready for our next episode where we speak with Benji Lebowitz of molecule, Dao and Pump Do Science. that is an incredible episode. 'cause we recorded it before and your mind's gonna be blown away?

[00:13:21] Erum: you do not wanna miss this paradigm shifting conversation. So stay tuned. Thank you so much for listening to the Grow Everything podcast.