121. Skin Deep: 'Peeling' Back the Layers of Skin Microbiome Diversity with Fjor's Natalie Enslow

[00:00:00] Erum: Natalie and slow. Welcome to the grow everything podcast. We're very excited to have you on today.

[00:00:05] Natalie: Thank you very much for having me.

[00:00:07] Erum: Yeah, it was really cool how we met. you are a business person. You reached out to me on LinkedIn.

[00:00:12] Erum: I was like, wait, who's this person? They're doing something really, really cool. And then we've had a few conversations and here we are. this is amazing. And

[00:00:20] Natalie: I know We made it.

[00:00:21] Erum: made it. Here we

[00:00:23] Erum: are.

[00:00:24] Karl: That's the way it works.

[00:00:25] Erum: is the way it works.

[00:00:26] Natalie: Absolutely. it's such a pleasure. I mean, when we connected on LinkedIn and then we had our first chat, it just seems so natural because you guys understand coming together of biotech and the consumer world. So yeah, it seemed like a perfect fit.

[00:00:40] Natalie: So very happy to be here and chatting with you today.

[00:00:42] Erum: Excellent. Excellent. And then I looked at your LinkedIn and when we talked, you have a very interesting background, even culturally. So you have a blend of Swedish, Malaysian, Chinese heritage, and you created this company Fjord that is inspired by Nordic values. So can you share a little bit about how your diverse and Cultural influences shaped your approach to skin care and entrepreneurship.

[00:01:06] Natalie: I mean, I grew up in Singapore, that adds extra layer on top of things. And, growing up in that environment, it's a very multicultural city. there's lots of people, lots of people moving in and out of the city. one of the things that, you're really exposed to is a lot of pollution, a lot of, eating out, things like that, growing up, I think the biggest thing is that, especially within, Asian society, there is a lot of use of antibiotics.

[00:01:32] Natalie: don't know about other cultures, just know my background that it was very easy to get antibiotics growing up.

[00:01:38] Erum: Yep.

[00:01:39] Erum: Same here in

[00:01:40] Natalie: Yeah.

[00:01:41] Natalie: yeah. And my father always said, if you can try to work through it yourself, Do your best not to use antibiotics. pretty important for your own immunity, and I never really understood why, but later in life, when I moved to Denmark, I did my undergrad there, I started to learn more and got more in touch with that Scandinavian and minimalistic lifestyle, I think it spoke a lot to me in terms of, Today, we're looking at a lot of over consumption, skin care routines are super long, the way we look after ourselves has gotten more complicated than ever. And I learned a lot from the Nordics in terms of what does it mean to scale it back? So how do you look after yourself in simpler terms instead of Overdoing it. So I think that really heavily influenced, the, way that the business is today in terms of wanting something that was super simple.

[00:02:34] Natalie: a reflection extension of nature, but then at the same time, reflecting, I think where society has gone in terms of big city living. being able to have that natural touch in a city environment.

[00:02:47] Karl: this is super interesting because I think most guys who are listening have no idea how complicated skincare routines are It's more than just throwing water on your face and walking outside Usually and it does involve using soap and sometimes it involves a lot of other products.

[00:03:04] Karl: but you, have developed this company Fior and your products, use a revolutionary enzymatic technology. talk about the enzyme, why it works and why is it unique in skincare? We talk a lot about enzymes on this podcast.

[00:03:20] Natalie: Yeah, I mean, look, enzymes are incredible and truly think that we're only at the cusp in terms of what enzyme technology can really do for not just the skin, but I think in general coming back to, what we're doing at Fiora. And about what we call the hydrolytic enzyme. This is, as you said, revolutionary tech.

[00:03:40] Natalie: So what the enzyme can do is essentially help to balance out your microbiome whilst also achieving targeted exfoliation of the skin. So when we think about. our skin. We think about it in the same terms as how we look at our gut, It's the balance of good bacteria and bad bacteria. And we of both of them, We need the balance between the two. And that creates the foundation of our immunity. Now that's the same logic for the skin. essentially our biodiversity on our skin is down 84 percent than it was from our ancestors. So, it sounds absolutely insane, but we are actually in a skin health crisis, but this technology is phenomenal because what it can do is increase the microbiome diversity of your skin by 38 percent in just 28 days.

[00:04:29] Natalie: And there is nothing like it on the market. how it works is that it actually breaks apart bacterial bonds on your skin. So if there's any sort of clusters of any bacteria or whatever, it will break those bonds that it can allow for the entire ecosystem to thrive and prevent one single strain from actually taking over the skin.

[00:04:50] Natalie: that is really what constitutes, I would say, immunity in general, in terms of the gut, but also applied to the skin. Now, the enzyme also can achieve targeted dead cell exfoliation, so it's going to help that rejuvenation and of that radiance and natural glow that you will get from your skin.

[00:05:07] Natalie: But those are the main key points in terms of why it is so truly revolutionary. Yeah, it's so incredible. I am a customer now and it's a wonderful product. I just started using it. And so you're definitely going to talk a little bit more about, how to apply and use a product, but I love. that you're focusing on the microbiome.

[00:05:26] Erum: It's something that we talk a lot about here, too. a great job of explaining the importance of the microbiome and how diversity of microbiome is important. Just like there's good cholesterol, bad cholesterol, there's the force between good and bad is, everywhere.

[00:05:41] Erum: I just love that you think about that. And How the microbiome influences immunity to that's something I think, we need to talk more about. And I just love that you're bringing this to the table. you're looking at skin care from a science studies. perspective, but also a minimalism perspective.

[00:05:57] Erum: as you were a marketeer and you saw technology and you want to bring it to the market I'm just curious to know, like, how did you find the technology?

[00:06:05] Erum: sounds like you are a microbiologist, you're consuming all these papers and like, you're definitely speaking to it. So, I don't know if you're always looking at the microbiome or you met somebody. I'd love to know, how did you across this technology?

[00:06:18] Natalie: Yeah, I mean, a lot of this was born out of, I would say, my, personal experiences, , growing up. So my mom has a lot of skin allergies, so she has a very delicate, sensitive skin balance, and I inherited that. So I'm allergic to lots of things, sometimes I can wake up and I've accidentally used the wrong toothpaste and my lips will be 20 times the size, and

[00:06:41] Natalie: it's, it's, Terrible, but for me, it's always been a bit of a guessing game.

[00:06:44] Natalie: And for me, trust was a very big component in making my decisions with products. But the other side is my dad, he suffered from a lot of sun damage. In his life, he was the generation where sunblock wasn't very cool when they were growing up. It was an afterthought. It wasn't a priority.

[00:07:05] Natalie: It was definitely not something they use 365 days a year, especially in Sweden. But the thing about his experience is that. I always say when you get a sunburn, your skin remembers, and it will come back, not next week or next year, this will come back in 50 years time, and your skin remembers that, and for him, he's really seeing the long term effects of the sun, so that was my personal experience growing up and I was very interested in skin.

[00:07:34] Natalie: I was like, what does it mean to do too much to your skin that, you're getting all these allergic reactions? And what does it mean to do just enough that you are looking after your skin and preventing long term problems? So all of that comes into looking at, okay, how do I make my skin stronger?

[00:07:52] Natalie: And then the microbiome kept coming up. when I quit my job at Rolex, I actually quit on a complete whim. I called my manager and I was like, look, thank you, but I really just want to do my own thing. I want to be in the business where I make people feel good about themselves. And it's not to say that Rolex doesn't do that.

[00:08:11] Natalie: They do it in different ways. But I wanted take that active approach and I wanted to do something on my own like I said, wanted to work with someone smarter than me. I wasn't about to start making skincare in my kitchen as much as you know, I know that that is something that's, very common and I think that's great if, you're able to do it with a lot of rigor and sanitation, but when it comes to the idea that I wanted to do something that mattered and something that was actually revolutionary.

[00:08:38] Natalie: Because like you said, the industry, it is saturated. There is a lot out there and in order to cut through your products really have to work. if you want a product that is science driven and mean something to someone, it can't just be something that you've just. read online and created a very simple thing.

[00:08:56] Natalie: And of course, that's not to say that there are options that work, but I think from my perspective of what I wanted to show up in the market, this was really it for me. I started cold emailing people and asking people. I'm like,

[00:09:08] Natalie: does anyone know anyone? I just, I was

[00:09:12] Natalie: completely shameless. Yeah, that's my mo. I mean, for me, that shameless nature of if you don't try, you'll never know. And so I reached out to everyone. And then I remembered about this one company and it was mouth spray and I'd been using it to it. Prevent myself from getting sick and speeding up my recovery and it was enzyme based.

[00:09:30] Natalie: I remember being like, wow, that was really cool. My dad always talked about it at the dinner table I asked him, I said, Well, I would love to speak to them. And he said, Yeah, actually, someone came back and Said if you wanted an introduction, they're willing to meet with you. , and it was really fun. You know, like I was 25 years old.

[00:09:47] Natalie: I had no idea what I was doing. , but I had been working on the brand and the pillars so that when I walked in there, it wasn't like, I was like, trust me, I'm going to make something cool. It was like, no, I'm already on this journey and I'm looking for someone to join in.

[00:10:01] Natalie: And so we decided to partner up after They were like, yeah, we have this thing. We were going to keep it just as Christmas presents for our families. But you want to take a look. It might not be that great. Let's see. And then it was what became the hydrolytic serum, which is just unbelievable. when I think about there would have been this family in Sweden with the most amazing, strong and healthy and resilient skin.

[00:10:26] Natalie: And no one would ever know. But , we met and we just instantly felt that, spark in terms of feeling like this was the right partner. they saw what I was planning on doing and they, had a lot of trust in that too. And we built the foundation of the relationship as to what it is today.

[00:10:44] Natalie: these are world class. Absolutely incredible scientists. I'm always in awe when they talk about new things that they're looking at in terms of other segments and sectors, they're just amazing. So I feel incredibly fortunate, but it was that idea that, you can't do it yourself, outsource as best as you can.

[00:11:03] Natalie: And I outsourced my smartness to, to someone else in this journey because I knew I couldn't do it on my own.

[00:11:10] Erum: Oh, I love that story.

[00:11:12] Erum: just so brave. you use that word being brave and just going out there and being curious and your plan of just having the brand and everything set up and it's like, yeah, yeah, it's good to go.

[00:11:24] Erum: So

[00:11:25] Natalie: My mom was not on board with this. So for me, I was like, I'm gonna have to move tangently just to keep on moving so that she can't say, okay, time to stop. But I'm like, no, no, but look, this part's moving and this part's moving as well. And it took her one whole year to be like, okay, I get it. I'm proud of you.

[00:11:43] Erum: yeah,

[00:11:44] Erum: there's nothing like parental disproval to really drive you to do something.

[00:11:48] Natalie: absolutely. I'm actually truly, you know, mom, if you're listening to this, I'm truly grateful today, was I back then it was a bit tough, but I am very, very grateful in terms of the fact that, I was even having the opportunity to look at this to actually go down this path and even start this journey because.

[00:12:08] Natalie: I'm incredibly grateful for the opportunity to do this and to do what I love every single day. it's a gift I really do think that.

[00:12:16] Karl: That's amazing.

[00:12:17] Erum: Yeah, That is so great.

[00:12:18] Erum: so what are the unique challenges that you faced launching a biotech driven brand? Did you rely on a specific playbook or strategic framework to navigate these challenges? Or things been going well, tell us a little bit about how you got started and got out into the market.

[00:12:35] Natalie: I think with any startup, obviously there are ups and there are downs, I think that's with anything, but coming into the market with a revolutionary piece of tech, there is something to say, especially about consumer choice that. Posed an interesting, I would say, discussion point in the early days, I was at point where I was deciding, do we launch with just one product and introduce the world to it?

[00:12:58] Natalie: Or do we build a range and go from there? it on me that actually consumer choice people are inundated with choice and innovation. In order to introduce, I would say, a very revolutionary piece of technology and also to reduce the friction of choice that people often are faced with on a day to day, we wanted to put our best foot forward with our best product and our best formula and allow people to experience it and not have to necessarily choose.

[00:13:30] Natalie: And for people to gain that initial trust, because I think that's such an important part within, I think, coming into the field of not only skincare, but also with biotech, This is something that people have never experienced before,

[00:13:43] Natalie: when it comes to the initial startup, it's a very difficult concept to explain to people. So if you put one thing in their hand and explain that it allows for a lot more of a digestible experience as a consumer.

[00:13:57] Natalie: And we saw off the back of that we got the early adopters, And these people have been with us since the very beginning. They've been through the whole roller coaster of also going through different messaging and kind of understanding what resonates, and where we show up in the market.

[00:14:14] Karl: Yeah, to us. It's super interesting because we have experience in the personal care and beauty space and we think of skincare and personal care and beauty. I mean, it's basically, mano a mano, fighting in the streets. It's super competitive it's a very tough market so how have you the tech and the science behind the tech, to create, the experience of your, for the users.

[00:14:39] Karl: how does that set you apart from other brands?

[00:14:42] Natalie: Yeah, I mean, there's multiple facets to this. not just one decision that, will resonate with people. I think for us as a brand and what we represent, Fjord as actually an Icelandic word. It means life and vitality and merriment. And it has a very beautiful of deep fundamental meaning, but it also has quite a gender neutral approach, right?

[00:15:03] Natalie: And I think that's something that we take on in terms of brand. In everything down to messaging, but also visually, we're an extremely gender neutral brand. we're on track to hit 50 50 male to female split in our audience

[00:15:18] Natalie: which is very rare for a brand, but I think because we lead with a science foot forward and we're very conscious into the fact that we're speaking to skin or speaking to bacteria, actually love bacteria going down that route and blending in this idea of.

[00:15:35] Natalie: Looking at it from how do we create extensions of nature, Our formulas are meant to reflect and be an extension of nature. Our mission that we are on is to improve biodiversity on our skin in the same way that we need to do that. In the world, within the environment. So, we of have a very focused mission purpose and niche.

[00:15:58] Natalie: And I think that has been a very large component in what can enable us to cut through to talk to our audience. and I think to be a bit differentiated, to be honest.

[00:16:10] Erum: Yeah. And you're a pro in marketing. You worked in the luxury brand marketing space at Rolex, for example. how have you applied some of your previous experience to build and grow fewer, because you're really coming at, the science side, the eco side, then the luxury side to, create this new type of feeling because, brands are feelings tell us a little bit about that.

[00:16:33] Erum: are you making this into a luxury product?

[00:16:36] Natalie: Yeah, I mean, look, Rolex was an incredible experience, it's such an iconic brand you learn that these are not brands that look at their competitors and what the competitors are doing, they forge their own path, they make decisions based on their intrinsic core principles of the brand, and I think that is something that really resonated with me when I experienced this in the context of Rolex and something that I have really Carried forward into the world of Fjor, with the idea of building pillars within a brand, that might seem like afterthought, but in the early days of Fjor, I came up with a three pillars of simple, powerful, and accessible.

[00:17:17] Natalie: that is something that resonated through every single component, every decision that happened within the brand, and it helped a little bit on the decision and choice inertia. When what we're talking about as a consumer applied, an early stage founder, it helped to filter out and create the heartbeat of the brand based on your own fundamentals versus trying to follow what everyone else is doing just for the sake of following, I guess, the industry norm.

[00:17:43] Natalie: And I think that's also what Fjör really represents, is that we're not really a skin care brand. we're not a holistic brand either. it's not vegan type of brand. something that sits in its own category.

[00:17:57] Karl: And you guys have leveraged that. mention Tiktok because Tiktok is so instrumental. we've seen it, really leverage very effectively by, Our friends at K 18 Hair, you guys have been doing really well on TikTok as well. I think you've reached over, close to 2 million, views, which again is incredible, but given that there's so much skepticism around, new beauty brands, biotech ingredients.

[00:18:22] Karl: how have you broken through the noise and used a science driven narrative to shift the dialogue and grow your brand?

[00:18:28] Natalie: Yeah. that's a great question. in terms of tick tock, tick tock is predominantly used by a younger audience. And, this is an audience that from, I would say my engagements with platform have really become the ultimate skeptics, these are people that have been hurt, I would say by the beauty industry and lost a lot of trust.

[00:18:50] Natalie: Because, the proliferation of TikTok means that a lot of people buy things because they see it, but they don't actually understand the background or the ingredients or what's going on. I think for me in particular, how I approach the platform. It's not as a brand, it's not with the intention to sell, it's actually with the intention to build a sense of trying to help the next generation, it is starting the conversation, it is planting the seed of, we're going down.

[00:19:19] Natalie: A path in which we're trying to unearth, what are good ingredients for the microbiome? What is the microbiome and starting these questions to prompt the thought the video that went viral, I covered a topic in which, I saw. A lot of people using this sort of like a very common ingredient, and that ingredient had quite a few things that I would not recommend to put on the skin for the purpose of your microbiome and sort of the long term strength of your skin.

[00:19:49] Natalie: It's very different, there's the challenge of short term thinking versus long term thinking, I would say within the beauty world. if we're able to create that trust and that sense of we're here to help. Not only do we build that relationship for the future customer, but we also build that sense of this is thought exercise.

[00:20:08] Natalie: This is something that we're actually bringing an important topic to the top of your mind. And hopefully you will make bigger decisions to actually help the movement of the market because the industry must change. This is just an absolute fact and a core belief that we have, which is the industry must care about the microbiome because skin problems are only getting worse.

[00:20:31] Natalie: that is a huge concern in terms of the health of people in the Western world.

[00:20:39] Erum: Oh my gosh. Yeah. You're hitting on a lot of points for me, not only professionally in this world of biotech, but also personally, like I just felt like I never found the right product for my skin until now. Hello.

[00:20:54] Erum: There you go. Yeah. we can put that into a clip and put that on tech talk, now you're, the products that you have released, the ones that I've tested are design for the face.

[00:21:03] Erum: there's two things that always happens when I'm interviewing founders is that, there's the obviously stay focused on what you've made, but then also plan for the future, like visioneering. I love that. activity when I talk to founders, because I'm sure you've had a lot of thoughts on different types of products to be made at different price points but I know you also have a focus as well.

[00:21:24] Erum: So can you share a little bit about some exciting developments from fewer, in the near future and how they align with the vision and brands? And also please take this opportunity to talk a little bit about the products that are in the market today.

[00:21:37] Natalie: So when we're looking forward focused, skin is your largest organ. That is something that actually surprises a lot of people or actually people need to be reminded. But it is our largest organ. as much as we want to look the top layer of your skin, there is a whole lot more in terms of skin space, that we must look after, but also different pockets of where your microbiome is.

[00:22:02] Natalie: when it comes to, I would say, from my perspective, go where the microbiome is externally.

[00:22:09] Natalie: That can come in all sorts of different forms, that's where we're headed, right? We're looking at all the different products that can really support the function of our largest organ and support you and build your sort of skin health.

[00:22:23] Natalie: that doesn't necessarily have to stop there. But I would say that's, the very vague tease as to where we're going with the brand.

[00:22:31] Erum: I'm a god. I love it. feel like a hive mind is happening, but we'll save it for all off line. And, uh, we'll talk about that later, but

[00:22:39] Natalie: yeah,

[00:22:39] Erum: get it.

[00:22:41] Karl: like you said, your skin is your biggest organ. I think most people don't realize that, and so that gives you a lot of opportunity for working with microbiomes since the biggest organ is comprised of a number of different microbes. sometimes they're not, in balance. I love that you keep saying that we're in this crisis because, we had talked to Stephanie Culler early on of Persephone, and she was really the one who highlighted the fact that there is this microbiome death happening just because of the way that we live in the Western world, and I think most people don't realize it, but you see it in terms of, skin disorders.

[00:23:17] Karl: other people see it in terms of, the way that their Children react to things, allergies, things like that. so I love hearing this now to grow the company. One of the things you did was you raise some money. how has that changed? your approach,

[00:23:30] Natalie: think from a business perspective, when you raise money, you realize that you don't represent just yourself and the company, you represent the people that have, backed that vision. And I think that creates a certain, I would say welcomed pressure in terms of wanting to see through the vision.

[00:23:49] Natalie: I think that there is an incredible bond. I'm very fortunate in terms of who our shareholders are, but, to be able to rely on a group of people that are vested in the interest, obviously in the company, but then at the same time, these are people that have been in the industries and been in periphery industries for a long time that can offer a lot of support.

[00:24:11] Natalie: it's amazing to have people externally to validate the vision, to see it, and to support you through it. So, I would say, it's not that it changes so much in terms of the day to day side of things, but it creates this, Added layer of motivation that you not only want to do it for the mission and the purpose and, your own vision, but you do it in the fact that these are people that support you along the journey and want to make them proud, as silly as that is, but you really do want to make them proud show that, this was something worth investing into.

[00:24:44] Natalie: And you fought tooth and nail make it happen.

[00:24:49] Erum: Yeah, that's such a, strong founder story. and coming from my own experience, it's personal in the beginning, You came up with this idea and then all of a sudden you have some team members and then you have, investors and it becomes this new entity.

[00:25:05] Erum: And it's not just you anymore. It's the company yes, you're the founder and your CEO, but it's the company that exists and you are bringing that mission forward. Yes, you're leading it, but it's not just you anymore. And I think, for me personally, that helped me.

[00:25:20] Erum: not get too emotional during challenging times because it's the company. It's not me. I'm not the one going through the challenge. It's the company and I have a team and I have support and let's work on this together. I can execute on a plan, and I can come up with a plan, but you you all have to come in on this and let's work on this together.

[00:25:42] Erum: And it's so much more fun and freeing to think of it that way.

[00:25:46] Natalie: Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I will say there's one small correction, I think, for myself. And I think you'll probably also say the same, but can't say I did it alone. even in the early days when I was technically solo working on the business, it takes a village, you tap into lots of people in your network and I can't say that I did this on my own.

[00:26:06] Natalie: There are so many people that I owe so much to. Lots of dinners, lots of treats, lots of free skincare that have helped me along the way, and I think, I wouldn't be here without them. And, they know that, there is so much to the idea that Everyone says that being a founder is a lonely place and it is in some senses because some of the decisions you make are hard and some of the situations are hard, but there is such a beautiful thing in coming into communities of either fellow founders or the people in your network in your community that support you in different ways, whether that's.

[00:26:38] Natalie: By sharing your story with their friends or lending their time and in their proficiency to help you, you can't say it's not necessarily just on your own, and it's something that I'm extremely grateful for, in that whole journey, because I think, again, I wouldn't be here without them.

[00:26:54] Natalie: So shout out to everyone on the journey.

[00:26:56] Erum: Yeah. And we're part of your community now, and we want to thank you for leading this effort. no one else is doing what you're doing exactly the way you guys are doing it. So we need people like you to be able to make these types of products to be able to think this way, in a way that is fresh, innovative, really looking at the science and not just doing business as usual and putting a story and a brand on it and just Selling it and no one knows what's going on.

[00:27:21] Erum: And the only choice they have is what they know versus something new.

[00:27:25] Natalie: Yeah,

[00:27:26] Natalie: absolutely.

[00:27:27] Natalie: one of the things that I always like to say is, we got to love our bacteria on our face because, we share as human beings about 25 percent of bacteria and microbes, right?

[00:27:38] Erum: hmm.

[00:27:39] Natalie: But the other 75 percent of bacteria that lives on your face, they choose you, they choose to live on your skin

[00:27:47] Natalie: and to protect you and to look after you.

[00:27:50] Natalie: And it's one of those things where whenever I talk about this and I think about it, I always think about all of these little microbes that are just doing their day's work. They're doing an honest day's work and they're just trying to be there for you. when we talk about the construct of skin. The microbiome is 85 percent of the construct of our skin. The other 15 percent is just skin cells. And I think within the skin care industry, a lot of people have been focusing on skin cells and looking after skin cells, but they're ignoring 85 percent of what Our skin is constructed as

[00:28:25] Erum: yeah. Yeah. just so sweet about the microbes on her skin choosing us. I feel like that's a slogan. And also I can see an animation of microbes being like, Oh, look at that person. Let's go crawl on its face.

[00:28:39] Natalie: yeah,

[00:28:40] Natalie: exactly like shield and armor, you know, it's like crawling there. I'm here to protect you. Devote my life to you.

[00:28:46] Erum: Oh my God, this is a

[00:28:47] Erum: storyline. We should pitch this to John Cumbers. he leads in bio beta and he's looking at ways to create narratives that are for animation. this would be a good one.

[00:28:58] Natalie: that's a great idea. Look, anything to get the microbiome sexy again and talked about and story told.

[00:29:05] Karl: yeah, absolutely.

[00:29:07] Erum: Yeah.

[00:29:07] Erum: Yeah. You're definitely spitting out a lot of good slogans. bring microbiome bag for like making

[00:29:13] Erum: microbiome sexy. I love it.

[00:29:15] Erum: I love it.

[00:29:16] Karl: Yeah. Same here.

[00:29:17] Erum: So I have another question for you. in this industry of, skincare, It's targeted towards women. I don't know in terms of, founders and, people leading these companies.

[00:29:27] Erum: if there's equal amount of women or male dominated, but the women in tech movement is significant to you. So how do you see the intersection of biotech and entrepreneurship evolving for women? And what advice would you give to aspiring female biotech entrepreneurs?

[00:29:45] Natalie: mean, that is a great question. I would say from someone like me and how I got started in this, I knew that there are a lot of smarter people out there than me, There are people that have dedicated their lives within biotech, innovation, R and D. And my background as a marketeer, Could be used in a way to fuse together two very, very polar industries, when I think about women in tech, it doesn't have to necessarily mean that you are a woman that has a technical background. I think that is, An important differentiation in terms of what that term can mean. And for me, it's taking, incredible technology that might not have seen the light of day and, delegating the important innovation, R and D and technical understanding to people that are much smarter than me and being able to give that a platform and a voice.

[00:30:40] Natalie: I think that is very important in terms of what it means to be a woman in tech. It doesn't have to be that you are just a woman that is technical. You can be a woman that is bringing technical into consumer's hands or to a more simplified platform or just a platform in general,

[00:31:00] Karl: Yeah, I love that. And I'm sure that our female listeners are gonna love that as well.

[00:31:04] Natalie: I hope.

[00:31:05] Erum: listeners.

[00:31:06] Karl: And our male

[00:31:06] Karl: listeners

[00:31:07] Natalie: look, I think, that if there's anything I've learned in this process, it is that there are so many bright and beautiful minds on this earth that have dedicated their lives into different, very, very niche segments. these are all opportunities that can be brought to create.

[00:31:25] Natalie: Incredible things for the end consumer. That does something good. I think that's a very important component to this as well, which is that it is for the betterment of people. that longevity is such a hot topic at the moment, but it is, for that as well. how do we improve our life, our health, how long we're on Earth, being part of that doesn't necessarily mean that you have to be the scientist.

[00:31:49] Natalie: You can just find the people that are incredibly smart and join forces. it means that there's options everywhere and we just have to be brave enough to go and find them.

[00:32:01] Karl: Absolutely. So, as we end this conversation, let's talk about, some skincare, biotech trends. these things continue to evolve. Biotech beauty, we read a fair amount about it. I think it's very important. what trends are you seeing that are interesting and how are you positioning Fjord to stay at the forefront of those trends?

[00:32:21] Natalie: Trend is an interesting one because I find that the microbiome isn't a trend, it is just a fact, and I

[00:32:28] Natalie: think that's very important as a differentiator in terms of why, for us, I wouldn't say that we're necessarily trend spotters, if there's something that I can see from a consumer shift, people are getting a lot more in touch with understanding the microbiome, see The gut being a huge topic of conversation, most people understand baseline fundamentals of, eating lots of different types of vegetables and, herbs and things to create the breadth, So the diversity of microbes that you put into your body, And that translates as the next wave onto the skin, and we're seeing that in terms of the trend of people actually understanding the microbiome and that education piece and awareness, but as for trends, I guess the biggest word for me, I mentioned it earlier, it would probably be longevity.

[00:33:19] Natalie: was reading an article the other day about how alcohol consumption is trending down, people are drinking a lot less and, people are taking a lot more agency of their health in terms of supplementing in terms of the way that they're optimizing their sleep, the way that they're optimizing the way.

[00:33:36] Natalie: we track things with, smart trackers and, we're, leaning into this idea that we're optimizing all the different components of our health and our life. And if you want to look at it from a skin care perspective, for example, that would be from the microbiome sphere, There's a recent study that came out that when your skin ages, the pathogenic load increases, which is why. Your skin actually can develop faster fine lines and things as a regard to your microbiome diversity. If your skin is not diverse enough, the pathogenic loads will take over the skin a lot quicker in terms of if you have a strong, diverse microbiome, you have a lot more resilience and you can slow down that.

[00:34:19] Natalie: I'm not biggest fan of the word anti aging. I know that it's the baseline. have one of our products, which is anti aging. But I think that there is this element for me personally, that I like the idea of active aging. You can't stop it. I find it very difficult, looking at our products and be like, Oh, it's an anti aging product.

[00:34:36] Natalie: But that's a baseline understanding of what it does, but there is such an important concept of this idea that we're actively aging. we don't have to necessarily say that we won't do it, but we can slow down the process and take agency of that process.

[00:34:50] Erum: Yeah. Yeah.

[00:34:51] Erum: Yeah. that's really cool.

[00:34:53] Erum: And of course, we'll have the links to fewer products in our show notes. I recommend everyone try it. I think one of the outcomes you mentioned, I don't have mentioned the podcast yet, but, that it takes about. 20 some days for your microbial diversity to really take effect after using the product.

[00:35:10] Erum: So I think I'm on day seven or eight. at this point. So mean, we don't have much time. I'm going to bring you back on talk more about how do you measure microbial diversity? and maybe it's to have one of your, scientist friends come on with you. they sound amazing, but I can't wait to see my skin.

[00:35:25] Erum: feel good. those tiny microbes on my skin are there with their

[00:35:29] Erum: shields. They're

[00:35:30] Karl: Yeah.

[00:35:31] Erum: making me happy. it's. symbiotic relationships happening. So thank you for that.

[00:35:36] Natalie: absolutely. Absolutely. I mean, look, the products are designed to be simple. you can use. So we've got the hydrolytic serum or the hydrolytic moisturizer. You can either use them individually depending on your preference of texture. The serum is a lot lighter. It's got 12 ingredients.

[00:35:53] Natalie: The moisturizer is a lot more nourishing and richer and barrier building. it's definitely more nourishing in that thicker sensation, but you can also use them together. I love using them together but I ebb and flow between all the different products of like, Ooh, sometimes I'm a serum person and sometimes the moisture, sometimes I'm both.

[00:36:11] Natalie: They work beautifully together, but beautifully on their own. And I think that's something very important to us because we want to create an ecosystem for our consumers and for our, fewer family, you could say that. They don't feel like we're trying to sell them stuff for the sake of selling them stuff.

[00:36:29] Natalie: This is not our intention. Our intention is to be meticulous and intentional and to create things that truly support your skin function versus trying to replace it. Now, we are looking at products that expand the range, but it's not going to be duplicates of the same thing. We're not going to have 15 different serums and 15 different moisturizers and different colors and shapes.

[00:36:53] Natalie: We're doing the best of the best in each tier, in each product will be its absolute best version of itself. And we will strive constantly to improve each and every time.

[00:37:05] Karl: That's

[00:37:06] Karl: amazing. yeah, I love it. I you're teasing a little bit of the future products. We will talk about that. I'm really excited when those are being developed and you're open to talking about them. I can't wait to have you back on and talk about that.

[00:37:18] Natalie: Absolutely. Absolutely. We can go full deep dive.

[00:37:21] Erum: Yeah. And then I come to London, I am coming to London and maybe we'll chat about that. plan some things out. It'll be fun.

[00:37:28] Natalie: Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. I mean, look, it's been such a pleasure to chat. for me, I, just love talking about this topic. I love bacteria as, like I said, we have to just get ready to love it, embrace it, embrace bacteria, because you know what, it will embrace you back if you're good to it.

[00:37:46] Natalie: And, I think, so much to do with How we look after ourselves. And, we have to take every small step, it's 1 percent in all the different parts of our health. the skin has been overlooked for too long, but it's time to start really looking after it in building the strength, building resilience so that you can be healthier and you can be the best and optimal version of yourself.

[00:38:10] Erum: Yes.

[00:38:11] Karl: That's

[00:38:11] Karl: great.

[00:38:11] Erum: rallying cry. That's a

[00:38:13] Erum: rallying cry. , but thank you so much, Natalie. We will certainly talk to you again. , this was so much fun.

[00:38:19] Natalie: Oh, thank you so much for having me. Honestly, it's been an absolute pleasure. So I appreciate the time.

[00:38:25] Karl: Thank you, Natalie.

[00:38:26] Natalie: Thank you.