107. Glow Big or Go Home: Andy Bass's Journey with Glowing Oceans

[00:00:03] Karl: All right, Andy Bass, we're so thrilled to have you on the Grow Everything podcast.

[00:00:09] Andy: Hey guys, how's it glowing?

[00:00:11] Erum: Yeah,

[00:00:13] Karl: pretty well. we wanted to kick it off by talking a little bit about this collaboration you've got going on, for people who don't know, you've got a collaboration with herbs and you sent us each a mush loom tank. That includes some bio luminescent dinoflagellates. I think probably most people don't know whether that is So you can explain it, but thank you for sending those our way I shake it every night and I get to see these glowing little creatures Tell us how do you get started with that?

[00:00:42] Karl: And what has been the response from people who Have them in their homes. know my opinion. Iran's opinion is going to be biased. Iran autumn loves it, right? All

[00:00:52] Erum: part of our family now.

[00:00:54] Andy: That's awesome. Yeah, I mean and that's exactly the kind of connection we wanted to spark is Being able to take this magical occurrence that happens in the ocean, , and port that into people's homes where they can enjoy bioluminescence night after night. I've been growing this type of plankton now for going on 12 years.

[00:01:12] Andy: And, the inflection point for me was, my background is biology, but my creative genes started expressing themselves sometime after college. And I've always moonlighted with like more of an artistic project, no matter what I was doing. I was making DNA art at the time. So, back when Gene sequencing and microarrays were a thing.

[00:01:34] Andy: I was selling that technology to pharma and I was trying to explain that to lay person on an airplane. I'm like, Hey, what do you do? I would get all excited about DNA put people to sleep like that, so me and my partner at the time were like, Everyone has DNA. They should be excited about it. And so we started making these DNA portraits or DNA selfies.

[00:01:54] Erum: Oh, wow.

[00:01:55] Andy: it's basically what the FBI used to use to genetically, identify someone. but there's this uniquely represents a person. and so we started making these portraits and.

[00:02:06] Andy: there was a market for that, and, we ended up building a little lab, and, got invited into the Smithsonian's first ever human genome project, and that was an amazing, point in time where, A ceo of a biotech company, who was doing genetic engineering saw this and said, Andy, your DNA artwork is cool, but what is living art look like?

[00:02:27] Andy: And that question really changed my life. And I couldn't walk around in nature without seeing that's a really cool pigment. And just imagining, how can we use nature in our consumer lives? and I saw bioluminescence in the ocean for the first time 2011. And Was like, can I make a living light out of that?

[00:02:47] Andy: I figured it out. no one had grown more than, I don't know, 100 liters, I think at the time then. I was going to those experts and saying, Hey, I want to make a light. How do I do it? Really cracked the code on that and made my light, but it's so intricate. No one would put this in their homes.

[00:03:03] Andy: You have to keep the algae at a certain temperature, give them sunlight 12 hours a day To grow. but along that path, people were asking wow, this is really interesting, what does it eat? how does it grow? And we taught, well, it eats sunshine. It photosynthesizes like plants and it grows by cell division.

[00:03:22] Andy: And we realized wow, this is a gateway into the world of biology for inquisitive minds. we actually launched a Kickstarter project. we raised. Almost a couple hundred thousand dollars. And the first product we made was this dino pet here. So you say dino flagellates enough and you just nickname it dinos for short.

[00:03:43] Andy: So the dino pet was born and, it turned out to be a huge hit. We sold. Millions of dollars worth of this, cool little clear toy, ended up selling that business to the guy that asked me, Hey, Andy, what is living art look like? He saw, we were able to take this idea from zero to 60.

[00:04:01] Andy: and he's like, I want you to come and work for me and, work on some of these other projects I have in mind. So in a nutshell, that's the backstory there.

[00:04:09] Erum: Wow.

[00:04:10] Karl: was the first place that you saw the dean of flagellates?

[00:04:14] Andy: It was actually right down the street from me, in the Pacific ocean in Carlsbad,

[00:04:19] Andy: I'd grown up in Alabama, and had lightning bugs in the summertime. And so that was my first exposure to bioluminescence. but seeing it in the ocean and seeing the different wavelength, a blue wavelength of light from the ocean versus that sort of yellow green wavelength of light, on land, there was just this transformative moment for me.

[00:04:39] Erum: Wow. you're completely right with the dinoflagellates and the mushroom, which is now, but the dino pet sparking imagination, sparking questions, like my son, who's very young, but he was like, what is that? are they tiny animals? in the quiescent of minds.

[00:04:52] Erum: I mean, that's a child, That is a child. So, I love it. The fact that he's really getting into it. My husband started asking questions, he's like, but it's broken. Cause it doesn't light up during the daytime. I'm like, it's because it's not supposed to, you know, like, and so it's interesting to have those conversations and, being able to materialize your creativity into a product I'm sure is so satisfying.

[00:05:15] Andy: Yeah, really hit on something that we struggled with when we were trying to launch dino pet, because it doesn't light up during the day. And with all the technology today and LEDs, people want instant gratification. And we're like, no, this is nature. it's not on your schedule.

[00:05:33] Andy: you're on its schedule. And that was fascinating as I went in to design other products experiences for like, How do you get the consumer to accept that and step away from the digital world, you know, and come back into nature and, be on that timescale.

[00:05:48] Andy: so yeah, that definitely directed a lot of the thinking and the design work I did on, other projects and even the immersive experience we have with glowing oceans.

[00:05:57] Erum: yes, I would love to learn more about glowing oceans and curious how, your journey went from working with herbs and mushroom. Is it part of glowing oceans or is this a new entity just in terms of understanding that. But also this immersive experience.

[00:06:11] Erum: Carl and I got to experience a glowing oceans exhibits or it was an immersive experience when we were at send by a beta earlier this year. And. Wow. I was like, okay, this is going to be transformative for a lot of people because of the spark of imagination and being able to see it. But we'll have to learn about how glowing oceans came about.

[00:06:29] Erum: And, , what are some activities you have in mind?

[00:06:32] Andy: when we sold the business that, we invented with the dino pet, it stuck around for about a year and then the new owner decided not to pursue it anymore. And so there was this kind of hole in my heart. during the pandemic, the ocean in Southern California was just going wild with bioluminescence and it reignited that desire in me.

[00:06:51] Andy: And I'm like, okay, I need to make a product again, or I need to have bioluminescence like this in my life. and then I designed the mushroom, which you guys have, renaming to Lumie. And I can explain that from a psychological standpoint of a child, in a little bit.

[00:07:06] Andy: But I'm like, okay, I don't want to do the exact same thing I did before. but it's there, it's something I can share with people, share this amazing experience, but along the way in this journey, two people reached out to me, which really. Transform my thinking here.

[00:07:20] Andy: One was James Cameron, and his team at National Geographic. They're working on a series called the Science of Avatar. And if life on Pandora were real, how does the science work? You know what, and there's a whole episode on bioluminescence. We grew the plankton for them. I joined them on the episode, and really, dive into this magical world in the ocean that most people never get to experience.

[00:07:45] Andy: So, that was one opportunity that came my way. And a second opportunity, was a producer director, out of LA who was working on a project for Lexus and he had swam in bioluminescence as a child off the coast of Africa. he had this vision to bring this into the commercial for Lexus.

[00:08:02] Andy: And he's like, Hey, can you grow a few thousand liters for me? ship it up to Vancouver and let's do this. And so I was the dino Wrangler on that project too. We grew it, we shipped it. lots of logistics involved with, precious liquid living organism where you're controlling the temperature, you're controlling the lighting, it has to ship fast.

[00:08:21] Andy: But it was those two experiences where I got to see the cast and crew walking around, in bioluminescence and just the awe factor there and taking their breath away with how amazing, this, blue organic light is from the plankton. And it was the aha moment where I'm like, okay, I want to create an experience where People can walk through this, and really shift their mindset when you typically go to an aquarium, you see.

[00:08:46] Andy: The big things like the whales and the sharks, well, the microcosms of our world are so important. And these tiny little single celled plankton, they produce more than 50 percent of the oxygen we breed. They sequester massive amounts of carbon dioxide. so it's like, let's turn the spotlight to these things, and do it in an immersive way.

[00:09:06] Andy: And then the products like the mushroom, the dino pet, that's like. Exit to the gift shop and take that experience home with you share that experience that you had we're opening this in San Diego, share this experience with a loved one who's in the Midwest that doesn't have the ocean next to them.

[00:09:21] Andy: So that's how the thinking and the idea came about for glowing oceans.

[00:09:26] Karl: so when we saw the exhibit you had up in San Jose earlier this year, you basically had, put your, phytoplankton into a very shallow pool that people could either walk through or touch with their hands. what's it going to look like when people are doing it, like in the Midwest or when you open up this experience in San Diego in a couple of weeks.

[00:09:47] Andy: Yeah. So we'll have some different aspects. So really all focused around the plankton. There is going to be this edutainment section, where again, we want to draw people in with this exciting blue light, and then secretly teach them things about the ocean they might otherwise not ask questions about.

[00:10:03] Andy: but we're going to have some of the tile like experiences where each footstep touch ripples this blue light. We're going to have a, didn't get to set this up in San Jose, but of this overlook where it's raining bioluminescence on you. So you're looking up and it's almost looking at stars, crashing onto this viewport, and then we'll have a giant lagoon that, people can walk around and it's shallow, but it gives you that experience where your footsteps are causing the shimmering of light. So it's, almost like you're connected to nature because it requires your energy to walk through this and see the glow.

[00:10:37] Andy: and we're going to do this, lagoon in such a fashion where there's mirrors all the way around. So it has this infinity like effect when you're walking through it. And one of the things that surprised me from the exhibit you guys attended was I was asking for feedback after, and somebody told me talking to strangers in the dark was something that was actually quite fascinating and you have this shared experience.

[00:11:01] Andy: you're looking at something you've likely never seen before and you're talking about it. it's not so dark that you necessarily can't see someone's right in front of you, but you're not paying attention to what does that person look like or whatever? It's more like. Hey, we're sharing this experience.

[00:11:15] Andy: We're talking about it and we're getting connected on a different level. So that was like one surprising thing that came out of the exhibit that I want to foster more up because I think it's a cool community thing to bring together

[00:11:26] Erum: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. what a great added advantage. we're in the post COVID era. People are thirsty for immersive experiences. Carl and I are lucky to live in New York City and there's a lot of unique experiences, but they get sold out. But people want to get out of their house.

[00:11:42] Erum: They want to get away from their screens and they want to learn more about the real world. I feel like it's Interesting, the economy between technology and nature becauseIn our world a lot of people are just in front of their screens they're doing work so they just really want to get out and do something meaningful in their lives something beautiful.

[00:11:59] Andy: yet. So I have a co founder, with glowing oceans. His name is Jeffrey Fullerton and. He was an early employee at Meow Wolf. Have you guys heard of Meow Wolf and that immersive experience? tell you a little more about it in a second, but to stay on topic. And one of the things Jeffrey noticed is that, youth rebel when culture hits this point of being perfectly polished and no longer has room for expression.

[00:12:26] Andy: And I think that's the point in time we're at where a lot of the immersive experiences that are around now, they're digital, we're in front of our computer all day long. We're on our phones all day long. And then we go to this immersive experience and it's just more LEDs and projections.

[00:12:40] Andy: we want to kind of turn that on its head and bring you back into nature and. a term ginger, from, bio Mason taught me was, forest bathing. and I know you guys have, partaken in some of those journeys. and I was like, well, isn't it just a hike through the woods, and then I started reading about it a little bit more and.

[00:12:58] Andy: The psychology that came about in Japan from the urbanization there, and how important it was for just mental health to get out and walk around in nature and, the study that was done in Silicon Valley where, people, they did had two different studies where some people would walk through an urban environment and getting outdoors and getting fresh air and the others would walk through, And just the differences of emotions and mental health that came from that.

[00:13:23] Andy: so I think that's another, undercurrent of what we're doing is I really hope to inspire people with this, if we want to call it ocean bathing experience, and connecting back into the ocean in a way that You might never otherwise do so. That was of a profound thing for me as I started to learn more about it and thinking through this.

[00:13:43] Erum: Yeah

[00:13:43] Karl: the forest bathing I love that you Looked at the Japanese culture because they specifically were talking about techno stress. they identified that there is stressful experiences. If you're front of technology too much or you're too engaged in technology and being in the forest to was what we learned is that yes, it's like, okay, you're not in front of a computer.

[00:14:03] Erum: You're in this vast space, but there's actual Molecules and microbes that you're breathing in generates a physical response or helps regulate your immune system and reduce your cortisol level. So there's a very deep science behind. And I'm so curious, how that translates being in different parts of the ocean.

[00:14:19] Erum: Obviously, the salt and there's probably a lot of studies on the minerals and how that helps your skin and the movements and everything. But, I'm sure there's parallels there. And now, you I would love to go down this rabbit hole, maybe another episode.

[00:14:33] Andy: Yeah, I'm really interested in it too. And I think it's something we should study. And you guys know, Paul Stamets was also at the event in San Jose. And I never thought I would blow Paul's mind. but when he put his hand into the bioluminescent culture, he was like, Oh my God, this is amazing.

[00:14:50] Andy: and talking about some of the work that he and his partner do, we did discuss how, for me, I've, noticed that I haven't studied it, but something about the blue light is just really calming. and I'm interested to go deeper on that.

[00:15:02] Erum: Yeah.

[00:15:03] Karl: Yeah I was just going to comment for our listeners who don't know what meow wolf is my wife was the first person to talk about this. She saw it in Santa Fe, which is where their headquarters and they're these deeply immersive experiences. I think, the Santa Fe experience maybe was done in a strip mall or an abandoned mall.

[00:15:21] Karl: they have. Since nationalized, I can't remember where I was, maybe in Burbank at the airport, they had like flyers for the male wolf experience in Los Angeles, but, these deeply immersive, we could even say psychedelic experiences that they've put together. So I'm going to be fascinated to see how your experiences around the ocean ended up being translated, especially of your co founders comes from that space.

[00:15:45] Andy: Yeah, and just to add on to Meow Wolf a little bit and the Santa Fe space, they actually bought a bowling alley and first instance you see, it's this pedestrian house, you go inside, you open the door, it looks like somebody lives there, but then you start noticing things are off, maybe the crown molding is slanted, and you open the refrigerator, and it's like a portal into another world, you go in it, and you slide down, And then that's the other world that opens up.

[00:16:11] Andy: So it's really cool. And, yeah, yeah. So we may not go to that level of, build out initially, but I want to take it there. they've had, I think about half a billion dollars of investment and have now five or six locations. I don't have that much money right now. So, we'll, walk before we run as we build this out.

[00:16:30] Karl: Yeah, that's awesome. So added, you and I have known each other for a fair amount of time. we kept showing up at the same events over and over again, which is, I think, a testament to our longevity. but, across your career, you've worked at different companies who mentioned that you were selling DNA, stuff but you've worked with startups and very established companies, and, how has that experience, influenced you in terms of being an entrepreneur and a ceo?

[00:16:57] Andy: Yeah, me, for better or worse, I like to do things that nobody's ever done before. think it's just more compelling, more interesting and the types of conversations you can have just so much broader. So I've really taken these lessons in the abstract all of this is very relevant and future facing.

[00:17:15] Andy: So how do we bring this into the consumer market and tell that story in an interesting way? And, from, the example from DNA, but also work I did at incubated where they're growing the mycelium of mushrooms. when I got there, in 2019, Packaging was a big focus. And, they just licensed technology for leather to another company.

[00:17:37] Andy: And we're looking for like, what's the next thing? where should we focus? And plant based meats were on the rise, but it was all of the, impossible, more, ground meats, not looking at whole cuts. And we looked at the structure of mycelium and the way that the fibers grow together.

[00:17:53] Andy: We're like, wow, what about making whole cuts of meat, chicken steak. and then one of the people on our team was very data driven, sort of looked at numbers. He's like, guys, bacon is this amazing opportunity here. There's 6 billion of sales in the U S all the veggie bacon on the market's really terrible.

[00:18:12] Andy: how can we fit into that? so we started looking at ingredient lists from those bacons that were on the market and there's like 40 different ingredients and we're like, let's use mycelium as this whole cut and that's our palette and let's build upon that. And so we launched my bacon with, only six ingredients, including the mycelium.

[00:18:30] Andy: it's actually sold down the street from me in Carlsbad now. So was really cool. To see where we're able to take that and the storytelling that goes along with that, when we did early consumer tests, with a group out of San Francisco, Matson and Barb Stuckey and her team, it was fascinating because we put some of our scientific terms out there, like mycelium The consumer response was what the hell is mycelium?

[00:18:55] Andy: You know, I don't want to Google the label, when I'm at the grocery store, I just want to buy something that looks good and, take it home. So, it's been interesting journey for like, how do we communicate all of the cool things happening in life sciences and nature, in a way that is compelling for the consumer and something that they want to adopt into their lives.

[00:19:13] Karl: I'm gonna add one part to this story. So I was an early tester, I think I told this story when we interviewed Evan, I got this big box with the light cold packs and my kids are like, what the hell is that? And it had two pieces of mycelium bacon in it.

[00:19:27] Karl: And I felt bad for the packaging. and then, Evan's like, Oh, yeah, that was really early Carl. I mean, because I remember it tasted good, but it wasn't great And I told him that and now it tastes great But we've got a supermarket up the street like I can walk there in two minutes They also have started carrying it and i've bought it The flavor is incredible when we had evan talking about Repeat customers and people who've had heart disease The success of it is well merited.

[00:19:51] Karl: So I love that story.

[00:19:53] Erum: we're in Brooklyn. It's everywhere. some of the grocery stores in our neighborhood, they're, refrigerated cases are mostly plant based, more plant based than animals. I mean, it's the nature of Brooklyn and it's in all the stores, but a lot of restaurants now use it as well because on how you like your bacon, like some people, I don't know who likes it soft and flimsy, but I like it crispy.

[00:20:12] Erum: Okay. And then when you bite into it, some of the oil, squeeze it out. that's my favorite bacon is my bacon because of that. but yeah, great, work on your part. I mean, in that capacity, it was a lot of product and marketing on your side.

[00:20:25] Erum: Correct.

[00:20:26] Andy: Yeah, and it's awesome to see it coast to coast now to, and how far it's come along. But yeah, really started out we did tastings, , in upstate New York, and we invited investors. We invited food critics, whoever would come and sit at the table with us. we got a lot of insights There's a local chef there nick ruchetto who's part of the my forest foods team now but he was running a restaurant, and we're like, hey nick, what?

[00:20:51] Andy: Can you make with this? so we did a lot of different tests from Oysters. we made savory stuff, desserts and, cracker crisps and things like that. So there was a lot of R and D that went into that. And then we picked up on that information and figured out, okay, what's the product, where's the market, who's the market, how do we get it out there?

[00:21:11] Andy: And, one of the great things about Evan He doesn't wait on perfection to happen as a marketer. I struggled with it too. And we joke about it, but I want it to be perfect and wrap and Evan's like, no, let's push it out. Let's get it out there. So Carl, you tasted one of the early versions, but it led to where, the company is at today, which is, selling and, in stores in both.

[00:21:31] Andy: California, New York places in between.

[00:21:34] Erum: yeah, Ecovave is incredible. We have to have Evan back on. I think, we're due because Ecovave's doing incredible things. They're one of the leaders in sustainable biomaterials. so I want to get into sustainable biomaterials because I know that is a world that you live in beyond in the glowing oceans.

[00:21:48] Erum: You are a hot commodity in the bio material space. Everybody wants to work with you. I know that for a fact. so I would love to know, being at Ecovative, was that your first time, really going into the biomaterials world, did you bring some of that to Ecovative and then how is that now, in your, Present works.

[00:22:07] Erum: can know you're working on a few things and I'd love for you to share it with our audience.

[00:22:11] Andy: Yeah. So prior to incubative, and the company that actually bought biopop was in Trexon. so I was tapped to be the head of the consumer sector in Trexon. And we were looking around at all things consumer biology and What's interesting and, met Evan during that phase, when we were talking about, leather, like materials and other ideas.

[00:22:32] Andy: , so I brought a wealth of expertise from my time at Intrex on, on, just different biomaterials, all the way from like silk proteins to other applications and food and flavorings and, even medicines. we were working on A technology to deliver, active below the skin, with new technology and how can that work in this consumer world of lotions and applications like that?

[00:22:55] Andy: So, yeah, very diverse on the way that I looked at biomaterials. And then once I got to incubated. food was the first focus and then we shifted back into the world of textiles and Developed a lot of great partnerships and, technology there. now we're on focused.

[00:23:11] Andy: I have a company called Manana land, tomorrow land. where, uh, do consulting work and some biotech investing. And I spoke with Malik Demerol from tandem repeat early on, he shared with me what he's doing with squid proteins and how it's very silk, like, so we stayed in touch.

[00:23:29] Andy: There was an opportunity for me to join him with. a project that the department of defense is funding and they're interested in, Hey, if, climate change disrupts, growing cotton or war disrupts, supply chain, we still need to clothe our troops. So we want to build a domestic infrastructure for basically textiles and how we can make our clothes, for military and for consumer applications.

[00:23:54] Andy: I'm working with Malik on that now and the tandem team and one big change that's happened from, I think, when you guys first talked with Malik, was. Rather than have to genetically engineer that squid protein, we've actually found an alternative protein source that's ubiquitous today. can think of microbes that are brewed from yeast where, in the beer industry or even in the food industry where we're using yeast to produce enzymes, once those, actives are produced, The yeast goes somewhere, The yeast still has protein in it. Typically today it goes into pet foods or some other application, but we're able to take that waste stream and upcycle it into making fibers. And here's some, examples of that today. So, it's incredibly soft. stronger than cotton and, uptakes die like wool does.

[00:24:44] Andy: and we've been working across a variety of different applications of blending it with, traditional materials and seeing how does this fit into the military supply chain and consumer supply chain and have some big partnerships now with, some luxury fashion brands, some military companies.

[00:25:01] Andy: Some, textile mills where they're actually taking the fibers and making different yards and then selling that on to the brands that they serve. that's been really fascinating and surprisingly, having the background from Ecovative and working in the leather, like materials, it's a whole different world once you get into fibers.

[00:25:19] Andy: And I was blown away by I don't know what I don't know. And it was just a whole other world that I had teach myself.

[00:25:25] Karl: Yeah, that's amazing.

[00:25:26] Erum: Yeah. when we had Malik on, he was explaining to us been like different spinning mechanisms to make the yarn. And, he also mentioned that the protein self repair. So, I could imagine that in the military, if, hopefully no one gets shot, but like they got shot or there's like a tear, they would either heat it up or, don't know what exactly what the mechanism was, but it would repair the hole in

[00:25:46] Erum: the fiber.

[00:25:47] Andy: Yeah. When you think too about even as consumers, how do we get the most longevity out of the shirts that we have at home? And can that be self healing? with the technology we're looking at now with taking, waste stream proteins and upcycling those, it doesn't have that same functionality as the squid protein.

[00:26:04] Andy: but it's basically rather than having to grow cotton and deal with the pesticides that come along with that and the water and the land usage, we can create this other, supply chain for creating fibers that is less extractive in the environment and then where we hope to Use that platform for there is going back into the genetic engineering of like, Hey, these other proteins have interesting functionalities. How do we employ those into what we're doing now? So, that's another big lesson that I've learned is how do we get to market as fast as possible?

[00:26:34] Andy: And rather than wait on, something that, Maybe cost prohibitive today, like genetically engineering something and it doesn't quite fit in the supply chain as it exists. how do we get from A to Z as fast as possible? And that's what we're doing at tandem with this approach.

[00:26:49] Erum: Yeah. And it sounds like it was part of Evan's playbook too. It's like, let's just go into the market.

[00:26:54] Karl: Get it out there as fast as possible. Yeah.

[00:26:56] Erum: Yeah. What's MVP. Oh, so fascinating. I I just love to hear stories of the people that we know come together and collaborate because there's just so much intelligence and lessons that are learned and to be able to bring those lessons to a project so that project can move along faster versus any failures or, That lesson needing to be learned again and again, and again, it's just incredible that we can come together and do that.

[00:27:19] Andy: Yeah, and it's great to see the way that existing industries have opened the doors to the idea of bringing biology into, and that's a whole other, can of worms to be like, wow, how do we use biology in the fashion industry? And so it's great to have those stewards to be able to bring us in, show us the ropes and say, Start here and then let's build from there.

[00:27:39] Andy: it's been very supportive with a lot of brands. fashion for good has done a great job too, of, connecting the dots between, of the. Players and luxury and fashion and, consumer applications with these innovators, like incubated tandem many others.

[00:27:55] Karl: that's so great. Yeah. can we circle back a little bit to, Glowing Ocean? Because as this, episode goes live, you'll be launching in San Diego. And, I think it'd be really interesting to know, what has gone into the design of this interactive experience in San Diego?

[00:28:11] Karl: Where's it going to be? How big is it going to be? What can people expect?

[00:28:16] Andy: Yeah. So speaking of getting going before you have it all figured out that's what I'm right in the middle of. So we have a few locations identified in Carlsbad and Oceanside. We're negotiating leases with those places now, but don't have firm commitments. so that's a bit up in the air, but I'm like, we just need to go for it.

[00:28:36] Andy: a lot of the hard things are done, which is. The ip that we've developed to be able to grow this plankton on such a massive scale that's literally been probably a decade of my life figuring that out and How do we do this in a sustainable sort of aquaculture way? without growing Other organisms that we don't want in there and keeping this, basically contamination free.

[00:28:57] Andy: so, lot of that heavy lifting has been done But then bringing in the design elements from people again who have done it before so jeff from meow wolf Has come in on the operational side and been just tremendous and Helping put some guardrails around like okay Here's how we need to think about building the experience how we need to think about bringing people into this as an aside, I went to Japan in March of this year, there's a group there called team lab, and it's similar to Meow Wolf, but they use a lot of projection mapping and they actually have a water feature called it's team lab planets.

[00:29:31] Andy: So I'm like, I don't really care about the experience, but what's the logistics behind that? How do they get. Thousands of people a day to orderly take their shoes off, clean their feet, walk through this experience. and what does that look like? so I went, I learned we're applying a lot of that, technology into glowing oceans.

[00:29:50] Andy: so just leveraging, industry that is out there, the expertise that already exists and borrowing that and bringing it in to shape what we're doing, at Glowin Oceans.

[00:29:59] Erum: Wow. Yeah. I love that. You're going out there learning other techniques again. Lessons are important. so star of the show are dinoflagellates Are there other glowing ocean organisms that you know, you're looking to bring in whether It's this exhibit that's going to be launching or in future Experiences.

[00:30:19] Andy: We're still looking at that right now. of course, you can go to some aquariums at the moment and see there's some flashlight fish, some jellyfish, you can see some instances of bioluminescence there. So we don't really want to repeat. what's happening there? no other aquarium in the world Shows bioluminescent plankton.

[00:30:38] Andy: we have a partnership with birch aquarium at ucsd where we Bring dinoflagellates to their ocean at nights event but aside from that this doesn't exist in the world. And so that's really what we're focused on initially but we do something else I want it to be massive never done before and i'm Trying to think about, we're talking with some people at Monterey Bay and like, how do we get an anglerfish on display?

[00:31:01] Andy: that's really never been seen, but there's a lot of challenges there bringing those organisms up from the deep where oxygen is different, temperature of the water is different, has its own unique

[00:31:10] Andy: challenges, the

[00:31:13] Andy: pressure.

[00:31:13] Andy: Yeah. it's fascinating. what we're learning is that, The oxygenation is probably more important than the pressure, but it's still a lot of work going into that But for now, it's all about the plankton and it's all about letting people discover how amazing these Microorganisms are that are in the ocean that if they weren't there there's really on the planet.

[00:31:35] Andy: so we have to take care of them

[00:31:37] Karl: Yeah. a lot of people don't understand that, for as big as whales are, that's what they eat, And they're not the only ones. It's not that, Plankton are at the bottom of the food chain. They are the food chain.

[00:31:47] Andy: They really are. Yeah, copepods will eat the plankton and then a bigger fish will eat the copepod and on and on. so yeah, they really are the base and the existence of the food chain. You're right.

[00:31:59] Erum: So now we're getting to the portion of the podcast we're really going to think crazy and maybe what's possible, So bioluminescence is something been fascinated about some. I'm just so excited that we get to talk to you of all people about it. and that there's different organisms in the sea.

[00:32:14] Erum: You talked about fireflies. You talked about Paul Stamets. So, there's bioluminescent fungi out there. and we also have the world of biotechnology and genetic engineering. when you think about all these things, what do you dream up? how do we harness bioluminescence in a way that, I mean, Yes, there's honoring the organism that, harnesses the power of bioluminescence, but then being able to then perhaps engineer something, I mean, there's companies like light bio, for example, engineering, plants to glow, and that's a whole nother world, but love to go into the brain of Andy Bass and the.

[00:32:48] Erum: Bring out some like ideas and imagination for our, listeners, because maybe our listeners were started company and bioluminescence. We never know.

[00:32:55] Andy: Yeah, I mean, when I was asked the question of what does living art look like, I Try to take a step back and say, what does that even mean? And the fundamental question I came up with was what can biology do that chemistry? Can't, it can live, it can evolve, it can grow. so how do we think about.

[00:33:14] Andy: Things we need or things we do with that in mind with glowing notions. What I hope to do is really inspire the future champions of ocean conservation. Inspire the next generations of thinkers, doers, inventors. if life can glow, what else is possible? I don't know if I'm smart enough to come up with those answers and those new technologies, but I hope through what I do know and what we can do with Glowing Oceans that we inspire all of those incredible people out there to, at the very least have biology as A layer of their thinking and, when they go out and design things in the world, think about biology and try to incorporate that into what they're doing.

[00:33:56] Andy: So I don't have any big, magnificent grandiose things to share with you on, how we're going to change the world. But I want to change the world through edutainment and, by bringing the community together and that understanding of biology as a, base layer.

[00:34:11] Erum: absolutely needed. I mean, we're doing our little tiny part in our little world of podcasting and hope that this is entertaining. I mean, listeners, let us know. I mean, if you're liking it and tell us what you like, don't like, we're very, coachable as well. podcasters. Um, but there's also a lot that's unknown in the ocean too.

[00:34:30] Erum: So, with the partners that you work with, you talked about James Cameron. I mean, he's just going down there, I don't know how often he's doing that, but just to see what is. Down there because biology manifests in so many different ways. bioluminescence is one, but what other biological processes are down there?

[00:34:46] Erum: and what is down there? I mean, I think that there were some, documents that were released from the white house about aliens being down there. I mean, it's just like, what? And some people say octopi are aliens. I don't know. But, as you think about ocean conservation and sparking imagination, you're doing this with bioluminescence, but what other types of organisms or activities, like you're bringing it to these immersive experiences, but, there are some ocean experiences like, cruises and stuff how do you see all of that crescendoing or maybe just some ideas on that aspect of it?

[00:35:22] Andy: Yeah, so you're absolutely right. there's so much we don't know about the world, And, how we think about the visitors to Glowing Oceans are explorers, and we want to inspire them to keep exploring after they leave the exhibition. you guys have seen a version of, glowing oceans.

[00:35:37] Andy: I'm so happy that you did. It's been really challenging to go to existing institutions and say, Hey, I have this great idea, work with me on it. and that's been challenging. And so what I came to this realization that I just have to build it myself and show them what's possible. so I've taken my money from my last company, I sold it.

[00:35:57] Andy: I poured it all into this. I'm really hoping that I'm not as well. I know I'm crazy, but I hope everyone else loves the crazy too. so what we hope to do is really inspire what's possible. At this flagship location in san diego and we do have some potential partners where If you guys have been to the bodies exhibit and how that traveled the world and touched about 25 million people We expect to take blowing oceans on the road as a traveling exhibit as well.

[00:36:27] Andy: And Plug into existing venues like aquariums, museums, other entertainment centers. so, as we think about going to the Midwest where there's no ocean, and that's what the dinos grow in, we're evolving the water. We're building seawater profile, basically that we can take on the road.

[00:36:43] Andy: there's a lot that we Are doing so with Glowing Oceans in this iteration of it, and hope to be able to expand this globally around the world so that, anyone that wants to visit can certainly come and experience it beyond just the trip to San Diego.

[00:36:58] Karl: That's the coolest thing. Absolutely. Yeah.

[00:37:01] Erum: So glowing notions. We're going to have our audience members encourage them to go and see this.

[00:37:08] Erum: right now, San Diego plans to expand globally. So that's going to be very exciting. and then can people order the mushroom? How's that, business going? Is that something that you're looking to align with the immersive experience, or can anyone get a mushroom?

[00:37:22] Andy: Yeah, so,

[00:37:23] Erum: we've just opened ticket sales for glowing oceans on the website glowingoceans. com We're opening the venue in june 1st 2025 So we'll do the build out between now and then but we encourage people this is going to sell out it's a limited experience That we're opening the doors on from june to august to be able to buy tickets We'll expand beyond that but that's the window of time people are buying for now You can also buy all of our products on glowingoceans.

[00:37:51] Andy: com. So the mushroom, the t shirts hats, to really support and help build this out and we're excited to welcome so many from the biotech community to, kids and other visitors that are coming to San Diego. So we're really excited. It's going to be amazing. we just had a launch party, and was well received with a lot of media influencers, press.

[00:38:13] Andy: so you'll start to see a lot more of that, the wires and the Instagram feeds shortly.

[00:38:18] Karl: Amazing. That's amazing.

[00:38:21] Erum: Yeah. And then we'll certainly be amplifying that. I mean, so audience members take a look at our show notes. We're going to have all the links there. you follow us on LinkedIn. We'll be promoting everything through there, through Instagram, all of the lovely channels that we're on.

[00:38:33] Erum: what an incredible gift that you're giving to people to be able to really look at bioluminescence and think about biology in a magical way, right? This is incredible. We really appreciate that you came on to share your thinking, your creativity, edutainment. We need more of that in biology. So Andy Bass, thank you so much for coming on the Grow Everything podcast.

[00:38:55] Andy: Thank you, Aaron. Thank you, Carl.

[00:38:57] Karl: yeah, thanks for coming on.

[00:38:58] Andy: love talking with you guys, and I appreciate the opportunity tell the world more about what we're up to at Glowing Oceans and beyond.

[00:39:05] Karl: Yeah. Can't wait to have you on again so that you can give us post launch report And let the world know how successful you've been

[00:39:13] Andy: Looking forward to it.

[00:39:15] Karl: awesome