The Secret to Google Ads Success: Mastering Media Efficiency Ratio (MER)

[00:00:00] Marcia: if you think about a river and you're going down the river in a little boat, and the river has its own dimensions, its own nature, it is the river and you don't have any control over the river.

[00:00:12] Mike: You are in for a treat today with Marsha Martin. Marsha is globally known as an executive trainer and life coach, and you might know her as one of the first 20 people who ever went through the landmark. Remember Landmark, you know, the landmark that's influenced millions and millions of people.

[00:00:32] Mike: She's one of the first 20 people to go through that program, and we go behind the scenes of how she's worked with Tony Robbins, Jack Canfield some of the greats who have ever been in the personal growth space. Don Miguel Ruiz of the four Agreements. I mean, she goes through. Her relationships and how she established these relationships with these people, how she's worked behind the scenes in their companies.

[00:00:53] Mike: She's personally trained over 300,000 individuals around the world. Some of the clients that she's having a chance to work with include Warner Brothers, capital One, Lowe's Hotels. McCain Foods, hard Rock, hotels, international, Avion Water, Intercontinental Hotels, Dan and Yogurt. The list goes on and on of the people and the companies that she's been able chance to connect with and work with we have such a fun conversation.

[00:01:17] Mike: She has great analogies, especially the river analogy as she uses it flows through life. I really love that. Our conversation around relationships, masculine, feminine energy, creating polarity in a relat. Yeah, you're, you're a virtue. So get ready for Marsha Martin.

[00:01:34] Mike: So welcome back to The Better Than Rich Show. I'm your host today, Micah Braz, and I am here with Marsha Martin. And obviously you just heard me talk about how awesome she is. I mean, you're talking 300,000 individuals around the globe, a prominent leader, someone that you definitely want to learn from, and I'm really excited to have you on the show.

[00:01:55] Mike: So welcome to the Better and Rich show, Marsha.

[00:01:57] Marcia: Thank you, Mike. I'm really, really thrilled to be here. I love how you show up. You look fantastic with your Leadership Academy shirt on your four clover leaf hats, so it's fun to be here.

[00:02:10] Mike: I'm very much a hats and t-shirt kind of guy, and you know, I had someone reach out to me recently trying to sell me like men's clothing like a direct sales thing. And I'm like, unless you got t-shirts and hats, don't know if I'm your target audience over here. I'm like a basketball shorts, t-shirt kind of guy.

[00:02:25] Mike: but yeah. So, Marsha, tell me, I, I'm really excited to have you on our show be able to get you exposed to our audience and you have a lot of really great accolades, but I'd like to know a little bit more about you as a person. Then we're gonna get into the human potential movement and how it started.

[00:02:39] Mike: And I'd really love to hear a little bit more about like, what our audience, if they don't know who Marsha is, what are some things that'll really be important for them to know about you?

[00:02:47] Marcia: Well, I think I'm a lot of fun and I love animals and I love being with friends and traveling. I travel all over the world. I love adventure and discovery and learning new things, and I love learning myself, you know, just like continually growing. I think that that's a really important thing for a human being to do, and I'm a very loyal friend.

[00:03:10] Mike: Would you say the learning is something that has been a part of you and a part of your life since like you were young, or do you feel like that happened later in life? And I asked that because me, I failed reading when I was in middle school. Cause I hated reading. I just didn't like it. just one of those things, like the books weren't interesting to me, but now this year I read over 6,000 pages.

[00:03:30] Mike: So it's like, one of those things that are learned. So when it comes to learning, developing self-development, just growing yourself where's like the birthplace for you where you're like, dang, okay, this learning thing is pretty important.

[00:03:41] Marcia: I think it started when I was a real we child because my father was an alcoholic and kind of a lost human being. And he used to always lose his job also because he didn't like to be bossed around or told what to do. And so someday he would always say something that he shouldn't have and then he would lose his job and he would come home that day and say, we have to move.

[00:04:03] Marcia: so most of my young life was spent going from school to school to school. I went to two or three schools a year until I was a sophomore in high school. And what would happen is because it was so great at school, And that's where life was good. That's where it was fun. That's where it was safe. And so I think that, part of my survival mechanism was to continue to learn and then that also endeared me to my teachers.

[00:04:31] Marcia: so I became teachers, pets, sort of, or most popular student and those kinds of things. And so a lot of my activity in life was around education, around growing and around mentors that acknowledged me and appreciated me for that. So it's been there for a long time.

[00:04:47] Mike: and catch we up to speed on this as far as going from this avid, teacher's pet learner into turning this into a, a platform. I mean, you have a really beautiful platform that. Hundreds of thousands of people across the world. In fact,

[00:05:04] Mike: you were a part of the Landmark Forum before Landmark was landmark, if I'm not mistaken. Is that right?

[00:05:10] Marcia: I worked in New Warner Erhard before we started EST Erhard Seminars training, which became Landmark Forum. I took Warner's very first training. He'd never done any trainings. Ever. And there were 20 of us in that first workshop. And from that moment, he asked me to be part of the team. And there were about five of us, mostly women that built est.

[00:05:32] Marcia: And I was the senior vice president for 10 years from the inception of est, which happened after I came to work for Wener until 10 years later. And so I started with 20 people as graduates, and we ended up with millions and millions worldwide. And mostly that was my job to fill trainings. I was in charge of communication, registration, and production.

[00:05:54] Marcia: So my job was to fill the trainings, train the trainers in sales and presentation skills, and handle all the enrollment and sales and marketing and PR for the EST organization, which as you said,

[00:06:06] Marcia: became

[00:06:07] Marcia: landmark

[00:06:07] Mike: and listener. if you're a listener right now, landmark, you probably have heard of it. I mean, it is the largest you know, anytime I hear Landmark, I'm a big Tony Robbins guy, so I'm like, yeah, there's like Landmark and then there's like Tony Robbins and it's like, these are two big giant personal growth arenas for people that serve the millions.

[00:06:27] Mike: And you're talking that you started with, it was like 20 people. Like, that's really remarkable. I am so interested in what are some of the things you experienced? I mean, the people that have come through Landmark, between the relationships, the people, the topics, the growth of that organization.

[00:06:43] Mike: I'm sure there's tons of lessons and I would love to kind of pick that apart just a smidge, if you're willing to talk about that. Would that be all right?

[00:06:50] Marcia: Well, what's really interesting is that when I left EST after 10 years, I was quite famous. People would stop me on the street in New York and ask for my autograph, literally. And because I was the face of S because I was in charge of enrollment and sales. So I was always the one that introduced Werner at the big special events.

[00:07:11] Marcia: We started off by leading guest seminars and talking to guests in the bedroom of an apartment condo. And Werner would teach the graduates in a circle on the floor in the living room. And then I would take the guests into the bedroom and I would sit on the dresser and they would sit on the bed and then I would tell them about the training and enroll them into it.

[00:07:30] Marcia: then we did hotel rooms, and then we did auditoriums at hotels and conventions, then, the cow palace with 20,000 people. It was my job to fill it and produce it and train the people how to organize it and do the logistics in it and train the speakers, how to speak at it, and all of those things.

[00:07:50] Marcia: So it was quite extraordinary. Lessons learned all the way through. But interesting when I left. because I was so well known at what I had done and taking along with Werner and helping him and the other executives to create that incredible organization to the place that we did. A lot of other leaders came to me to ask me to work with them, one of which was Tony Robbins.

[00:08:13] Marcia: And so I ran Tony Robbins Company for two years in the mid eighties and helped take him national. He was on the West coast at the time and I helped him train all of his enrollment and staff and team in communication and leadership and sales and public speaking. So I know Tony

[00:08:33] Marcia: very well.

[00:08:34] Mike: I have more follow up questions, we're not done with this conversation, Marsha. So, if any of the listeners have never heard of Warner, what would you say to them? How would you educate them about, what they should know?

[00:08:45] Mike: what would you say about that?

[00:08:46] Marcia: I would say, well, first of all, Warner was from my point of view, a genius and a very committed person about human beings and humanity going to the next level. And in fact, the purpose of the training when we started s was to transform your experience so that the situations that come up just in the process of living clear up just in the process of living itself.

[00:09:11] Marcia: But we had an internal purpose for the team and the staff, and we were very committed to that purpose. And this will tell you a bit about Warner because this is what he shared with us Our purpose which was to create a critical mass of consciousness on the planet so that a turning could take. and the turning, as Gene Houston talks about it, is like in the ocean.

[00:09:33] Marcia: When the tide turns, it starts at the bottom. So you don't really see it, but there is a point where it turns to where you see it at the top, and that is the critical mass or the tipping point. And so it was our purpose really to wake people up and to have them realize that they had the capacity to be responsible for their lives.

[00:09:54] Marcia: They weren't a victim of a circumstance, and their circumstances didn't provide them with their power. That there was an internal kind of beingness, a human being could connect with and come from and speak into existence, the things that they wanted to create in life so that their, commitment caused a circumstance.

[00:10:16] Marcia: Rather than a circumstance determining what they should be committed to. And most people, even today, not most people, but many people still look at life that way. If you ask them, are they committed, they will say, well, wait a minute. Before I tell you I'm committed. Let me check to see if the circumstances are right.

[00:10:32] Marcia: Do I have enough money? Do I have the right team? Do I have the right talent? Whereas the people who really make a difference in life understand that first is the stand. they take a stand. It's a commitment. They say, this shall be, and they come from their internal power and they say, this is where I'm taking a stand and I'm gonna be unreasonable about it, and it shall happen.

[00:10:55] Marcia: And from that kind of consciousness, what we've discovered is that circumstances really align themselves around you and get to a point where you actually create the circumstances you need to deliver on the commitment that you've made. So to me, that's what Werner has always been about and what he taught me and what I thought, I think, that he really brought to the

[00:11:17] Marcia: world.

[00:11:18] Mike: And, how does someone muster up the courage to take a stand amidst their circumstances? Because you said you had circumstances with your dad growing up and sometimes it's tough to take that stand. Sometimes it's tough to have the courage to do so because the circumstances, what other people might think or what loved ones might say, or what if I'm not good enough, I'm inadequate.

[00:11:38] Mike: Like, how does so muster up that courage to take that stand?

[00:11:41] Marcia: Well that's the key, isn't it? For you to find that part of yourself where you actually are connected to something of a higher power than just your small limitations.

[00:11:54] Marcia: And that from that higher place, if you flow that through you and you come from that place, you can cause miracles and you're not the victim of a circumstance. And most people learn that through crisis. something will be so horrible in their life, it'll break down. they will go through that place in consciousness where they say, okay, I'm just gonna surrender.

[00:12:16] Marcia: I don't know what else to do except, and then they find that place inside of them where they can act into the world instead of the world acting on them. And that's a change in consciousness. And I feel my life has been so unique because from the very early time of when I was a teenager, I've had mentors that taught me those kinds of, concepts that taught me that kind of ability.

[00:12:41] Marcia: My aunt was a clairvoyant shaman teacher and, healer and an esoteric astrologist. And I interned with her from the time I was around 17 or 18. And so I learned about how the dream world works and how energy works and how you can, cause things, create things, manifest things rather than being at the effect of your circumstances.

[00:13:03] Marcia: So when I met Warner, when I was in my very early twenties, You know, it seemed natural that that should be the next step of learning more about my own power and my own ability to be responsible. I think the best example of having the courage to take a stand is those divers in Acapulco, Mexico that are on the cliffs.

[00:13:27] Marcia: And when they dive down into the ocean from that high point, they actually have to look down and see the boulders and the rocks. If they dove when they could see the ocean below them, by the time that they reached the water, the sea would go out, the tide would go out, and they would hit the rocks. So, you know, you have to have that ability to dive into the unknown and to take a risk and to go for it, trusting it's gonna work out and the tide's gonna come in, it's gonna meet you when you hit

[00:13:59] Marcia: the water.

[00:14:00] Mike: what it strikes with me is I actually just had a conversation with someone today about three things when it comes to trusting themself. And that's why I wanted to hear your take. And I love, the analogy of the diver, by the way. I haven't heard that one.

[00:14:11] Mike: I really love that. I may even steal that, if that's okay. . So,

[00:14:14] Mike: But what I said was to this individual that when it comes to making a decision, we want to, number one, be able to trust our intuition. That we wouldn't make this decision if we didn't have some sort of trust, some sort of faith.

[00:14:27] Mike: So we wanna trust the intuition. Then number two is we also want to have intelligence to know that even if I made the quote unquote wrong decision, I will learn something from this because I'm an intelligent human. And then number three is I have enough resilience to recover from whatever decision I make if it wasn't the decision I wanted.

[00:14:47] Mike: So as long as they have enough trust, as long as they have enough resilience, and if I have enough. the second one intelligence as I take my own advice, right? that's what's been serving me in the past.

[00:14:57] Mike: And I love what you said about how you can muster up the courage to take a stand for, having this trust that's like, yeah, could work out. You need a little bit of faith to see beyond the now and I really love that. So thank you so much for sharing about Warner. And go ahead if there's something else you wanna share on that, please.

[00:15:13] Marcia: I think also it helps with that particular question or conversation that we're in if you understand the laws and how things work. So if you think about a river and you're going down the river in a little boat, and the river has its own dimensions, its own nature, it is the river and you don't have any control over the river.

[00:15:33] Marcia: But what you do have control over is how you're gonna stand in the boat going down the river. Now the river may have turbulence or it may be totally no wind, and so it's totally still, or there may be rapids or there may be great drop-offs. you can't change that. People try to change the river or they try to change their circumstances, or they try to change the person that they're dealing with, or they try to change the event that they're in rather than realizing they can only choose how to respond to it.

[00:16:04] Marcia: It's gonna be the way that it is. And when you realize that's the way it is, then you start putting your focus and your attention on the things that you talked about, which is what I call being centered. And being centered is present, open and connected. So if I can be in present time, not think about the past, or worried about the future, or caught up in my emotions and in my head, if I can be open to the possibility of things rather than closed and closed down and conscious, cautious and, reticent.

[00:16:34] Marcia: And if I can be connected, if I can come from the place that I realize I'm connected to all of it, so there's a flow, the same source that makes the river, makes me, and everything is connected. If I can come from that understanding, then I don't resist what's happening. I begin to flow with it.

[00:16:52] Marcia: so when you put your attention on getting back to center before you choose an action to take, then the action that you take is more productive because you're not caught up in your automatic behaviors and your old decisions and your, emotions that are running you, you're centered, open, present, and connected.

[00:17:13] Marcia: Now I choose, okay, maybe I don't have all the choices in the world. Maybe if I'm in prison, I can't choose to be here or not. But I can choose how I'm going to respond to this particular way it is to this event, to this person, to this circumstance. And that's what I think you're saying. You're saying get centered first and then come from your own ability to choose.

[00:17:36] Marcia: A productive way to move forward. And then the other thing I would say is if people understand how things are created, most people think that you create something. If you wanna be something, you have to have something and do something first. So if I wanna be a dancer first, I have to go out and get some money and buy an outfit, and then get a trainer and a teacher and practice, practice, practice, and get some music.

[00:17:58] Marcia: these are the things I need to have, and these are the things I need to do, and then I can be a dancer. But the way things really work is it's always, the dream is first of everything that exists in reality, a dream of it happens first. It has to exist on the inner world before it can exist in the outer world.

[00:18:17] Marcia: So if you understand that, then you realize your commitment comes first because it is the dream of what you're going to create. It is the stand, it is your. Feelings. It's all of the things on the inner world. I shall I will. And then from there, human beings are congruent. And what congruency means is that things line up.

[00:18:41] Marcia: So if you are being a certain commitment, What will happen is you will act in a certain way and speak in a certain way in terms of the alignment of that commitment. And if everything is lined up the way you're being and what you're doing, you will automatically have whatever you created as a dream. The only variable this time.

[00:19:03] Marcia: So if you understand how things come into existence, then of course you say, okay, I'm gonna get committed first, rather than trying to go around and figure out what I need in terms of circumstances. And then if you can have the metaphor of the river and just be clear, it's just get yourself straightened up in the boat.

[00:19:21] Marcia: Don't worry about the river. You can't change the river. But then you'll be in this flow. And in the flow. It's like surfing. You know, sometimes waves are high and sometimes waves are low, but you don't have time when you're surfing to make it wrong or right, or complain about it or cry about it.

[00:19:37] Marcia: You gotta hold on to the surfboard to get to the shore. So you gotta stay present time. And if you go under, you just come back up. You don't say, oh, I'm so unhappy I didn't make it. No you need to be where you are when you're there and go with the flow. And I think that that river analogy kind of allows you to do

[00:19:56] Marcia: that.

[00:19:56] Mike: Oh my gosh. That was so great. Marsha. What an awesome analogy. The river analogy's. Fantastic. I really love that explanation a ton. And, it reminded me we had two guests on the show, Dr. Kelly Flanagan and also David Lee, they talked a little bit about the masculine and the feminine, where it's masculine, let's go in this direction, and the feminine, let's just really go with the flow.

[00:20:17] Mike: And using that surfing analogy that you ended with. It kind of got me thinking, it's like the shore is a masculine, we're going that directionally, and then it's that feminine. It's like, Let's also be present with our surfboard in these waves and let's not fight. What is and I'm assuming you have some really great wisdom that that is underneath that umbrella of the presence between, and the dance between that masculine feminine.

[00:20:40] Mike: It's one of the topics I love to talk about. I've asked several guests around this. Ben Polski was on the show, Mr. Former Mr. Canada bodybuilder. And I like to ask this question but I don't know if I asked this question to a female yet, . So let's ask the question of like, how would you define or how do you describe polarities or masculine feminine, just in general for ourselves?

[00:21:01] Mike: And then if it makes sense, it's a line we could even talk about it in a relationship too. But that's what I started thinking about this being presence while also having some sort of direction with ourselves. Mask and feminine is what showed up for me. So I'm curious, let me toss it to you.

[00:21:14] Mike: how do you define those polarities? The energies that go behind those? You know, I'd love to hear your take.

[00:21:20] Marcia: Wow. That's a big question. But I love this question and I love about relationships too, and I love about the feminine and the masculine and where I come from is we all have feminine and masculine, but we're an expression at this moment. As a woman, I'm more of an expression of the feminine, but it's not that I don't have a masculine energy.

[00:21:40] Marcia: Of course there is that energetic combining that makes the two pieces together make the whole I find that it works best if I think about it this way, that a feminine energy is an appetite. it's like, I want this and I want this and I want this and I want this, and I can create, and I can consider this as possible, and a masculine energy is I can produce that. So what I tell men and women in terms of relationships is if a woman can get really clear on what she wants and realize that she deserves it and make clear what she wants and let the guy know what she wants, a guy naturally wants to produce it. that's what men do. They fix it, they produce it, they focus on it, they get an answer.

[00:22:33] Marcia: but if they don't know what they're producing, it's kind of like, well, how do I get this done if I don't even know what it is? And women are not really careful to be clear about what they want or even know what they want, or especially even think they deserve what they want. So their appetite is small, when their appetite should be. and then to believe in your man that he can produce it instead of producing it for him. Because women, as we know, are very good at multitasking. So I can create what I want and then I can go get it, but that's not any fun. I'd rather create what I want and then have somebody help me go get it let that dance back and forth.

[00:23:12] Marcia: But I think that, it's not just that one is all of it and another is the other part. It's we're all, both parts and we express that particular kind of energy more in a more dominant way, usually one from the other.

[00:23:29] Mike: And with the woman using the women example of getting clear of what they want, how might a woman get clear of what she wants if hypothetically, , she is surrounded by the circumstance and everything. I know we, kinda already talked about it, but specific to a woman getting clear of what she wants so she could effectively communicate that to a man.

[00:23:50] Mike: Because I think I'm not a woman, so I can't answer 'em. That's why I'm asking you. But I would think that there would be almost like this it would take a vulnerability that, what if I say this is what I want and he can't satisfy those needs, and then I feel like he might not be the one, or maybe there's something wrong with me.

[00:24:07] Mike: And like, it can kind of create even almost like a downward cycle for the woman if she was enough to say, this is what I want and I would love for you to help me get there. And then it's like, oh no, he can't help me get there. I don't know. Maybe there's something you could speak to on

[00:24:19] Mike: that potentially.

[00:24:21] Marcia: Well, I think that, and now you're getting into some of my perspective.

[00:24:26] Mike: tell me them all. I want to hear 'em all.

[00:24:29] Marcia: First of all, I have to give a little caveat, which is perspective is really important where you see from because it causes what is out there for you to show up or occur. So for example, you know those pictures where you look at it one way and there's one thing and you look at it a different way. And there's another, you know, you look at it this way and there's this beautiful young woman.

[00:24:52] Marcia: But if you just kind of move your perspective a bit and look at it differently, there's an old hag. Have you ever seen

[00:24:58] Marcia: one of those kinds of

[00:25:00] Mike: vs. Seven Habits of

[00:25:01] Mike: Highly Effective People. Stephen Covey, that first chapter? Yeah.

[00:25:04] Marcia: Yes. It's in the Stephen Covey book, that exact picture. Okay. So here's how I use that as a metaphor in life. Everything exists. Just like when you look at that picture, they're both there. They both exist. However, one only shows up for you from a certain perspective at any one moment. So if I look from this perspective, this will occur or this will show up.

[00:25:27] Marcia: If I change my perspective, something else will occur or will show up. So it's important to choose perspectives that produce the things in life that are occurring for you, that work to produce the things you want. So for example, you look out in life and everything is there. What is abundant and what is scarce, what is working and what is not working?

[00:25:53] Marcia: It's not like one is there and one isn't. They're both there. But what shows up for you? Well, it depends on where you're looking from. Are you the kind of person that is a half glass, half empty, or a glass half full kind of person? Do you look from the point of view of looking to see what's working first?

[00:26:09] Marcia: Or from the point of view of being critical and judgmental, and so then you see everything that's wrong. it, it's important. the thing about relationships are men and women, I have a perspective that seems to work.

[00:26:20] Marcia: I'm not saying it's true. I dunno if it's true, but it's worked better than any other perspective.

[00:26:25] Marcia: In other words, if I consider it this way, my relationships seem to work better. Okay. With the opposite sex, or, with people in general. and what I notice is that there are motivations that we all have, and from a woman, usually the motivation comes from a fear of not being attractive. Now, I have an interesting point of view on this too, because most women think, oh, I'm not sure I'm attractive.

[00:26:52] Marcia: Oh, am I attractive enough, or is she more attractive than me? Or, it's a fear of, well, maybe I'm not enough, which is why I find it's hard for women to tell you what they want because they don't even think they deserve whatever they want, so they just want little things. But this attractive is not what it appears to be. Most women think it's about what does my hair look like and do I have the right makeup and am I the right weight and blah, blah, blah. I think it's about how are you able to attract, what's your capacity to call towards you, the things that you want? Are you attracting. . Not so much attractive, but attractive in the way that I would say, is your nature open enough to see that you have the power to call something towards you? And that's what I feel women have the power to do. Their natural nature is to call men's natural nature is to respond. So, we can look at a lot of different things. You know, there's spider and the fly, there's the essence, and you know you're attracted to a scent. But I look at it from that way.

[00:27:59] Marcia: Do I think it's that way? I don't know. I just find if I look at it the way seems to work better. So I consider, okay, I can call towards me. I have the power to attract, and my fear or my motivation is gonna be that I need to handle as a limiting belief as I'm not attractive enough. So when I get caught up in that, I remind myself that you know, I can, attract what I want.

[00:28:23] Marcia: I'm okay. This is fine. I'm worthwhile. I deserve this, and I work on that piece of me. What I find with men is their fear or their motivation is, can I be successful? Am I going to be able to produce? Will I get it done? and, and you see a lot of men that they wait to start, you know? And I think part of it is, and I don't know if this is really true, I'm just saying I use this as a perspective and it seems to work that kind of deal with men as if they might be concerned whether they're gonna be successful.

[00:28:58] Marcia: So the way I deal with a man as a woman is I don't help them because that would castrate them. That would prove to them that they can't get it done if I do it for them. So what I do instead is I believe in them. I put something out that I want, and if my guy says, oh, I'm sorry, I can't do that, I would say, honey, I know you can.

[00:29:20] Marcia: I believe in you. Until that part of him is assuaged to the point where his willing. Try and boy, you know, you tell a man how great he is about what he did, and he'll wanna do more of that. So I just think any human being can do anything. It's the fear that's in the way. So a woman can have a bit. Let's go and talk about an appetite for a minute now.

[00:29:43] Marcia: Women seem, to me, at least, I talk to my girlfriends and they tell me, well, I don't know if I should want that. And I'm not sure if I, I can have that. so I feel like appetite is like a muscle. You gotta get it going. it's not important what you want in the beginning. It's important that you can want something.

[00:30:02] Marcia: And so I give my women an exercise. I say, okay, sit down and for 30 minutes I'm gonna time you, I just want you to make a list of everything that you.

[00:30:11] Marcia: and after two or three minutes they stop and they go, I'm not sure. I'm not sure. Cuz they're judging themselves. And I, get them to the point where instead of figuring out, is this really what I want?

[00:30:22] Marcia: Cuz that's what they're looking at for, I get them just to get eased into wanting and it's like starting a motor. Okay, now that you can want something and if you can sit down for half an hour and just draw out everything I want, I want, I want, I want, I want, we've got an appetite motor going, now you can say, okay, what's really important to me?

[00:30:43] Marcia: What do I really want? And when you're clear about it and you can share that with someone even whether it's a man or a woman, but you can share it with the person that you care about in a way that's attractive. Women tend to be bitchy and angry a lot sooner than they should. it's never good to be a bitch.

[00:31:01] Marcia: The fear of being a bitch to a guy is much, much more powerful than when you're actually the bitch. it's in an attractive way. Can you clearly share what it is that you want and come from a place that you deserve it? And then can you let your guy do it? Can you let him take as long as he takes?

[00:31:19] Marcia: If he takes longer than you would've, can you let him, do it in a way that is not quite as complete as you would've done it at first and let him go and believe in himself? Then eventually that teamwork starts working. and I have found that when women are clear and attractive and loving and about what they want, and they're clear with their guys, guys will do anything to give

[00:31:41] Marcia: it to them.

[00:31:43] Mike: How, might a woman be okay receiving how do they strengthen that relationship? I have more questions and that was like amazing. But you just triggered that question. And before I go back to everything else that you just said,

[00:31:53] Mike: how might a woman,

[00:31:54] Mike: be open to receiving like letting him do it because that's letting go of that control.

[00:31:59] Mike: And, in our environment, in our society women are like the bosses of the household. A lot of times. the bosses of their business, the bosses of their jobs, the bosses of the parenting, right? So they put on so many masks of masculinity because they have to be in the masculine energy where it's hard to, just let 'em do it.

[00:32:14] Mike: It's hard to receive sometimes.

[00:32:16] Marcia: Well, here's the deal. I don't think masculinity is about being the boss. I think it's about being the boss the way that you are. Are you the boss in a feminine way or are you the boss in a masculine way and of masculine expression of being in control or giving an order or an instruction or guiding someone or mentoring someone is going to be different than a feminine, energetic kind of vibration.

[00:32:40] Marcia: And I think that women tend to think they have to be a man when they're the boss because it's been told to us that you know, when you're the boss, you're masculine. And no, when you're the boss, it just means you're in charge of producing the result that you are the manager of it. And so you can do that in a masculine way or a feminine way.

[00:33:00] Marcia: I think with a woman though. The thing that she needs to, most of my girlfriends that I think about, that I've worked with over years, and this has taken years and years and years for me to learn too, is that we have to be willing to allow someone else to do it for us. we've been told so much unconsciously from the time that we're little, that we're not worthwhile.

[00:33:24] Marcia: We're not as good as a man. It's a man's world. What we want is really secondary. We should want dolls and not fame, or we should want this and not that. boys can't cry, but girls can. So, we can be weak. So we must be weak. there's so much going on that says we're the. Inferior sex. And you know, as a woman who's been in the boardroom my whole life, I never really noticed it because I just was accepted by everybody. But boy, there have been some organizations I've been a part of where there was a real boys club and I thought, whoa, this is what people are talking about.

[00:33:59] Marcia: Suddenly I can't train the c e O because I'm a woman. I have to train the

[00:34:07] Marcia: of hr.

[00:34:07] Marcia: those little kinds of, oh yeah, we'll take care of the CEO and vice president and the executive of sales, but you take care of the . Okay. it's an interesting kind of thing. So we don't really know how worthwhile we are.

[00:34:22] Marcia: And then when we find out when we are worthwhile, we don't have a lot of models to be able to express that in a feminine, nurturing way. We think that we have to take on a man's way to. , tell somebody what to do and be a boss that way. there's a lot of stuff going on. This is special time in history.

[00:34:40] Marcia: Oh my gosh. This is all the, everybody's been talking about this for thousands of years. This particular time in history. This is the age of Aquarius. This is the age when it's happening or not. This is the age where the indigenous tribes say the eagle and the condor is gonna fly wingtip to wingtip across the rainforest or not.

[00:34:58] Marcia: The condor being nature and the eagle being, masculinity and the mind and all of that kind of stuff. How do we bring those two energies together in a way that is cooperative and it's not a guaranteed thing that's gonna

[00:35:11] Marcia: work out.

[00:35:12] Mike: well, it starts with conversations like this. I mean, it is when we can look at it from the lens of what you're saying because it is You can see. I'm reading a book called The Boy Crisis, so I'm looking at it from the, boys lens where I wanna see both. Of course, I wanna see both lenses because it this polarity of toxic on both ends, or wounded on both ends is really tough to bring a centered conversation around without, like, getting triggered of like, using the, famous word that happens all the time right now is triggered.

[00:35:42] Mike: I, I really love what you said though, is because how can you lead or be in charge or be in power from the nurture state? And sometimes that's tough. Where my curiosity went is parenting because we have a two year old and it's like, sometimes is, when you're parenting you can nurture so much, but then sometimes it's like, no.

[00:36:02] Mike: right? Sit. Like there needs to be that direction and then it's all, oh, that's kado. So this like balance of the two. This takes a fair amount of self-awareness to put down one and, call the next one forward. Especially if as a man to put down the masculine and pick up the feminine. And I'm assuming for the woman to put down the feminine and call the masculine or vice versa.

[00:36:24] Mike: Like it is very interesting from a parenting perspective and then also from an intimate perspective too, where it's like I've been in this in charge role all day calling the shots, and now it's like, I don't really care where you go for dinner. Like, I don't wanna call the shot right now.

[00:36:39] Mike: And it's like, now I gotta keep calling the shots and keep making decisions. I don't wanna make decisions right now. So it, it does take this dance of self-awareness. And having conversations about it because we sometimes are thinking thoughts that aren't ours. It's societal conversations of boys don't cry and you know, that means if you cry, you're weak.

[00:36:57] Mike: but it's okay if you cry if you're a girl, cuz that means you're weak. Like, that sucks. Like that was a really great, profound statement there. That is not the truth. , you know, like, it's not the truth at all. In fact, I talked to some of my clients and I'm like, when's the last time you cried?

[00:37:11] Mike: And I'll ask a guy, I listen, girl, this too. He's like, when's the last time you cried? He's like, one of the guys had Easter weekend. He said this to me last week. I said, you remember like the specific time? It was Easter weekend. I was like, well, right now it's December. So you specifically remember last time you cried was Easter.

[00:37:26] Mike: I'm like, I was like,

[00:37:29] Mike: I was like, my goodness, well number one. Good job for remembering number two. Let's cry right now, dude. Like, what do I need to say to you to let this emotion out? but think this is good. So let me kick it to you. Well, what's showing up on my little rant here on some of the things,

[00:37:41] Marcia: Yes, I love this because I wanna just add another dimension into it. But I love this conversation. I could talk about this for, you know, and I do usually in my workshops. So first of all, women think and men think, I think also that there is something a man's supposed to do and something a woman's supposed to do.

[00:37:59] Marcia: So when I tell my women, you know, figure out something that you want, they think that there are certain things they're supposed to want from their guy. Like they're supposed to want him to support them. They're supposed to want him to bring home the bacon or the money. They're supposed to want him to be the strong person in the relationship, whatever.

[00:38:20] Marcia: Like, well, they can want those things if they do, but if they don't, they shouldn't want them. and we're stuck in this place where a man thinks he has to do this and a woman is supposed to do this and when a woman really gets that, there are certain things she wants from her man and not necessarily Does she need other things that she would rather give herself because she feels she could do a better job of it, or it would be less high maintenance or whatever for her to do it.

[00:38:54] Marcia: She shouldn't ask that of what her man is going to give her. You gotta find a need for the guy you're with. You've gotta find something that you really want from him. And I think that women think they're supposed to want money, and they're supposed to want this, and they're supposed to want that. And I don't think that that's all that they really want.

[00:39:13] Marcia: They want care and nurturing and love and attention and tenderness. And there's all sorts of things that you could ask a man for that has nothing to do with will you provide for me? Now, if you wanna be provided for, then ask for that, but I, think it's important that a man doesn't think he has to give it because he's a man or a woman feels that she has to ask for it because she's the woman.

[00:39:35] Marcia: it's like I can think of a lot of things I want from a man, and it's not to take care of me. I don't need anybody to take care of me. I've done a pretty good job taking care of me, but I do want some conversation and some touching and some loving and some acknowledgement and, the dinner every once in a while be nice.

[00:39:56] Marcia: It's like, I think that we're stuck in these role models of what we should be giving. a man shouldn't necessarily have to be at work all day making the decisions and then come home and do the dishes or take care of the baby with the woman. Maybe she should go out and get a job herself and could bring home more money and he should stay home and take care of the baby and he would be more happy.

[00:40:16] Marcia: I don't know. But it's not so in stone, these models that we're supposed to be because we're a man or because we're a woman. It's what do we want? What works for us and what can we contribute? and what does one, feel competent about giving?

[00:40:35] Mike: and Marsha, those presuppositions going into the relationship is where a lot of the tension lives inside that relationship because it's like, I'm bringing mine, you're bringing yours, and then it's like the relationship is built on presuppositions versus what is actual actually real. And that's why I love the exercise that you said, woman sits down for 30 minutes, write down all your wants.

[00:40:54] Mike: I am curious, what's the exercise for a man? Is that the same thing or is it a different? Because if a woman is, to call on things or to receive certain things and do this exercise of what are my wants? What would be the man's to respond to them or, to call out some of his gifts or whatever it might be.

[00:41:10] Mike: I'm curious.

[00:41:11] Marcia: Well, you're gonna laugh at this because when I go into organizations, you know, I have lots of Corporate clients that I've had are Hyatt Hotels, Intercontinental, hard Rock Hotels, Warner Brothers, avian Water, Dan and Yogurt, capital

[00:41:24] Marcia: One,

[00:41:25] Marcia: you know,

[00:41:25] Marcia: top executive.

[00:41:27] Marcia: usually I'll go in and do a, retreat, an executive retreat, and teach leadership and communication and presentation skills.

[00:41:34] Marcia: And how one builds a strong team. so I'll take maybe a hundred executives or 30 executives, or the 15 top senior VPs or whatever it is that they want me to work with, and I'll have them for two or three days. Well, what happens is after those two or three days, a lot of the senior executives come to me individually and say, you know, can I have you as a coach?

[00:41:55] Marcia: how you think and what you did, you made it all so amazing. I changed so much. I would like to spend some individual time with you. So we start coaching and it's always this way. We'll go for a few months and we'll be coaching about the team. Coaching about their profession, coaching about their leadership skills.

[00:42:16] Marcia: And at some point, whether it's 4, 5, 6 months in, usually if it's a guy, the guy will come to me and will kind of be embarrassed and say, okay, I have something I, like you to coach me on, but I'm not sure if it's okay. I go, well, what is it? Knowing I already know what it is cuz it's happened so many times.

[00:42:35] Marcia: And they'll go, I really need help with my wife. I really need help with my girlfriend. You know, I really need help with my children. And so I start talking to them about that particular relationship. And with the guys I always start with, you are not giving enough affection because a woman wants that. And a guy is kind of like, she wants to hear, he loves her, for example. And, but three or four or five times a day isn't enough for a woman. She forgets one instant after you tell her and then she needs to hear it again. And a guy goes, well, I told her I loved her last month. I brought her a gift for her anniversary, so I always have the guys.

[00:43:17] Marcia: I go, okay, in the middle of a meeting, I want you to call your lady and tell her that you just had to tell her this, that you were thinking of her. And oh my God, you were thinking of her inner thigh and you know, it made you so hot and horny that you had to call and tell her that you loved her. Now what really happens is they actually do this, and pretty soon the women come to me at the different, you know, organizational parties and they say, thank you, don't know what you did, but he's chilling so much and it was so amazing, and the guys come back and they say she was a little suspicious, like, how come I'm doing this ? But I say, okay, well just keep doing it. Just keep telling her. Call her in the middle of the day.

[00:43:56] Marcia: Tell her that you because a woman's fear, she's not attractive enough. And so when you're off to work all day, it seems like work is more attractive to you than her.

[00:44:06] Marcia: Do you see? So you've gotta understand the motivation and the fears, whereas a man is afraid he can't do it. So a woman, don't give him a job and then take it away from them and do it for him.

[00:44:17] Marcia: and always acknowledge whatever you ask him to do, make sure he knows that you notice. He did it. He did it great. He was fantastic. He was amazing because then he'll wanna do more of that for you and he'll get better at doing the things you want him to do. So it's those little things. So that's what I tell man.

[00:44:35] Marcia: I say, find more surprises where you can be romance relationships. To me, the perspective I've taken on that I think works better than any other I've thought of is, it's a poker table. Men bring romance and women bring sex. Women stop having headaches. Stop it. a woman can get turned on with just herself saying, it's time to get turned on.

[00:44:58] Marcia: She doesn't need. A, a guy doesn't turn a woman on. A woman turns herself on with her own intention. That's what women do. So, turn yourself on and get sexy and a guy, bring romance, bring her flowers and write her notes and surprise her with presents ex, just not on a certain day, any afternoon, all afternoons write a poem for her.

[00:45:23] Marcia: Even if you can't write a poem, take her for a walk in nature and hold her hand. think of it that way. Men bring romance, women bring sex. How can she be there for him in a way that he is feeling like a guy?

[00:45:40] Marcia: And how can he be there in a way where she feels treasured and adored?

[00:45:45] Mike: gonna be the most listened to section. We're gonna label that section of how to get laid. That's what we're gonna call it. And , that's gonna be . We're gonna clip that one, and we're gonna post that all over social, so that's perfect. Marsha, I really love this combo, and, I wanna make sure we spend some time real quick before we head for the exits, is the human potential movement because this is something that you have done a fantastic job with.

[00:46:08] Mike: if you could plug it, tell us a little bit about it. What does it entail? just anything that we can know about the human potential Mu movement that's helped inspired hundreds of thousands of people at this.

[00:46:18] Marcia: Well, you know, the human potential movement was really a time in, in history too. So in the late sixties and the early seventies, and it was in a place it really came out of the hippies in San Francisco. I just happened to be in San Francisco during, you know, I saw all the rock concerts and all the greats and all the music, and I, you know, had my floppy leather hat and my guitar and my short skirts and my embroidered shirts.

[00:46:46] Marcia: And we were happy and hippies and loved and it was, like that. And there were a lot of courses. It started with, some of the early courses were. , Jose Silvas mind control. And then there was Alexander Everett's Mind Dynamics. And then that's what Werner took to be a trainer of mind dynamics before he created s So I took mind dynamics with Werner in San Francisco where he had that particular area.

[00:47:13] Marcia: And then Warner brought in a lot of Dale Carnegie and some Scientology and some leadership kinds of courses and kind of married it with the Jose Silva and the mind dynamics and all of that. And, you know, a lot of it is, all of this human potential technology is thousands and thousands of years old.

[00:47:36] Marcia: I mean, go back to all the great books, including the Bible and, and all of the things that are said and all those great books are pretty much what are taught in the human potential courses. And then from there, there was a group of trainers. There was Tony Robbins came down from Jim Ron well, that was his mentor.

[00:47:53] Marcia: Jack Canfield, one of my great friends who wrote Chicken Soup from the book was an insight trainer, and he worked with John Roger Warner worked with Alexander Everett. you know, and then there was also what was the book company night and Gal and Kona, the people that created Night Andal and Kona.

[00:48:09] Marcia: They were great human potential kinds of philosophy, concepts think and Grow Rich. All of those great books are some great books out of the eighties that were 18 hundreds, that were the Think and Grow Rich books, where that came from and all of that kind of data, the law of attraction.

[00:48:24] Marcia: So, In the early, the late sixties, mid sixties and early seventies, there started being these courses. People started going to courses and it became a thing and EST was one of the biggest courses there were. And in the seventies and early eighties, just like hundreds of thousands of people took EST and everybody, you know, that's how I met Jerry Weintraub and Steven Sodaberg and Nancy Pelosi and on and on and on.

[00:48:51] Marcia: and princes and governors and scientists and celebrities. And so what's happened since then is it's come into its own in terms of. Really combining philosophy and combining psychology and combining some of the new sciences and how your brain works and neurolinguistic programming, which is Tony brought that whole thing and made it famous.

[00:49:18] Marcia: He didn't create it, but he brought it to the forefront and lots of different ways where you could be a more effective human being. it's been an exciting ride. I mean, I was there when there was just a few of us, and then suddenly there were tens and tens and tens

[00:49:31] Marcia: of thousands. Oh my God.

[00:49:33] Mike: That's really cool. I appreciate you sharing because that backstory, you know, you could Wikipedia something, but to have someone who's experienced it and has gone through and seen, I mean these names, I mean, these are the legends of personal growth that you're listing off. And I mean, gosh, we actually have a dream list of guests to have on the podcast, and you mentioned like a dozen of those dream guests that we have to have on this show.

[00:49:55] Mike: So maybe there's a way that you can make an introduction or something, but like, these are the greatest of all time at what they do. That started this movement that you were a part of and have kind of seen from the studs to build in the highrise. So Marsha, this has been awesome.

[00:50:10] Mike: We like to ask three questions, but, ending each conversation that we have and you could, you know, short hitting first, top of mind, whatever comes to you. The first question is, What do you think the world needs most of today?

[00:50:20] Marcia: I think the world needs consciousness. think that people need to wake up. You know, when my friend Lynn Twist, who started the PAMA Alliance in the early eighties, went to the rainforest because she had a vision and a dream. She met with the indigenous tribe of the OWA and the owa. She went down the Amazon and know, into the forest met with the chiefs and the chiefs said to her, you need to go back and change the dream. And she was like, what? And she'd been working in hunger cuz we did a lot of hunger. She was one of my early students in est, in the guest seminar leaders program. And we started the Hunger Project there and she was a big part of that. So her work really had been hunger, so it hadn't been the environment.

[00:51:05] Marcia: But after meeting with the OWA and having the vision that she had and the experience of talking with the chiefs, they told her, you guys have an unsustainable. Dream and she said, you people of the north, that's what the chief said. You people of the north, meaning you civilized people, you know, you have an unsustainable dream that is gonna take us to a place that's gonna destroy humanity.

[00:51:33] Marcia: So you need to wake up and get a new dream because the one you have isn't working. And I think that people need to realize that we are all connected. you are part of the river, you are part of the animals, you are part of the tree. We're an expression of source and the expression is in different forms, but it comes from the same life kind of.

[00:51:56] Marcia: Creation. And so we have to take care of ourselves and our planet and wake up and be conscious about what we're doing, what we're saying, how we're treating people, how we're treating the land, how we're treating the animals. So that's what I would say the world needs most

[00:52:14] Marcia: is

[00:52:15] Mike: It's beautiful.

[00:52:16] Mike: My second question, what are one to three books that you think people should read?

[00:52:21] Marcia: I definitely think everybody in the world should read Untethered Soul by Michael Singer. It's basic, basic, wonderful, wonderful. I read it at least every six months. My great friend Don Miguel Ruiz, who wrote The Four Agreements, the Four Agreements is an amazing book. People should read that. And Lynn Twist wrote Soul of Money and they should read that.

[00:52:42] Marcia: And here's the fourth thing I think would be good for people to do. And even though I'm giving a plug to myself, I really mean. I've spent the last few years taking all of the videos and I keep doing it on a regular basis and uploading them to my club, marsha martin club.com, where you can just go in and at your own leisure for $10 a month and watch workshops and get these kinds of conversations in your brain that wake you up.

[00:53:10] Marcia: And they're fun. They're about sex. They're about money. They're about consciousness. They're about leadership. They're about communication. So that's maybe a fourth

[00:53:18] Marcia: book.

[00:53:19] Mike: that's great. I was leaving that at the end because when I saw that you offered that, I was like, we need to get our guests into that club. So I'm glad you mentioned it. and, and while we're on that, before we go to the final question, why don't we just talk about it real quick.

[00:53:30] Mike: that club, it's $10 a month. it's

[00:53:33] Mike: digital Library of workshops, seminars. , I mean, podcast interviews, I mean, you have all of this content in there and it's called the

[00:53:40] Mike: Marsha Martin Club. Where can they find that if they wanted to check it out.

[00:53:43] Marcia: Marsha martin club com. And Marsha is m a r c i a m a r t i n club.com.

[00:53:51] Mike: We'll definitely put that in the notes. Yeah, go,

[00:53:53] Mike: ahead.

[00:53:54] Marcia: you know, it's like a Netflix of Marsha Martin. Pick your title, pick your

[00:53:58] Marcia: workshop,

[00:53:59] Mike: that's great. Thank you for sharing that. And thank you for putting that together. And I'm reading Living Untethered right now cuz I really love Untethered Soul, so I'm reading his new one and oh, it's like, fascinating. So third question, Marsha, what does it mean to you to be better than Rich?

[00:54:14] Marcia: for me. It means to be awake and responsible and to give back, to make a difference. leave something behind, to have my work and all the wisdom that I have and that I've gained from many, many mentors in my life that I'm so grateful for, come through me, that I can give away to others that they can use to have a better

[00:54:36] Marcia: life.

[00:54:37] Mike: It's beautiful Marsh. Wow. I am so honored to have you as a guest on our show, and there's so many individuals that are now gonna get to experience you and your wisdom that you shared. I just thank you so much for your time and thank you for contributing to the episode today. So thank you for showing up.

[00:54:56] Mike: I appreciate it.

[00:54:58] Marcia: Thank you so much and thank you for the work that you do and the opportunity that you make to create the space to bring this

[00:55:04] Marcia: to people.

[00:55:04] Marcia: Well

[00:55:05] Marcia: done.

[00:55:05] Mike: thank you and listener. Thank you. Thanks for hanging out with us today and listener, assuming that this episode helped you. It's your turn. Help others share with a friend, subscribe on YouTube. Leave a rating and review on Apple and Spotify. And as always, remember to leave today better than you found it.

[00:55:24] Mike: Till next time.