Introducing Google Ads Performance Max | A Broad Overview

[00:00:00] Ralph: Hello and welcome to the Perpetual Traffic Podcast. This is your host, Ralph Burns, and this is the show where we share cutting edge strategies and acquiring leads and sales for your business through paid traffic. And today we are going to get into another killer case study from my buddy Kassam Oslan.

[00:00:17] Ralph: How are you pal?

[00:00:19] Kasim: I am good. I like killer case study, by the way. Good alliteration.

[00:00:22] Ralph: Yeah.

[00:00:23] Ralph: And this is a local one, which is, which is even cooler, I don't think. We've talked about the local market, which is something that you guys serve quite a bit. And the chiropractic space. So if you're a chiropractor or a service-based business, local market, this is definitely one for you.

[00:00:40] Kasim: Anybody who's brick and mortar, I think could take something away from this particular episode. And I, I chose this case study mostly out of arrogance because so, so many agencies refused to work in spaces like this. The spend was low, the opportunity is low, the expansion opportunities are low, and so people just ignore 'em.

[00:00:59] Kasim: But there's, there's a lot of meat on the bone if you know how to tackle 'em. And so that's where we're gonna be going over today is how we kinda crack that code.

[00:01:04] Kasim: you've, you've got a nugget I hear.

[00:01:07] Ralph: we got a nugget. We got a nugget. This is something we haven't talked about probably a long time, but does everybody remember instant experience ads on the meta platforms? Because I think a lot of people have forgotten about them , or maybe they

[00:01:20] Kasim: were those, those in-app landing pages that you built? It was kind of what would you say? Immersive.

[00:01:26] Ralph: Mm-hmm. Yeah, it's an interesting ad type in the fact that what you do is you, instead of sending people off platform to click through the ad to your landing page or to your product page or sales page, whatever it happens to be, when they click in your ad, it actually opens up and it works especially well on, on mobile.

[00:01:51] Ralph: If you preview it on desktop, you can kind of see it, but it really is a mobile ad for all intents and purposes. It opens up into sort of a mini landing page on the platform.

[00:02:01] Ralph: and in this particular case, this customer was selling fairly high end like grills, like outdoor equipment, a lot of stuff that, it was a, it was definitely a consideration purchase of hundreds of dollars, maybe even up like some of their higher end ones or thousands of dollars.

[00:02:19] Ralph: And instead of just sending it off to, you know, a special or to a landing page or to a product page, we split tested this against sending it through instant experiences first. So the instant experience landing page was basically just a bunch of images that pre-sold.

[00:02:39] Ralph: In this particular case, we'll use an example of it was, it was an outdoor barbecue. It was an outdoor like smoker. And so this customer has a really good deal on these and has a,price that's very competitive in the market versus like the Amazons of the world and everything else.

[00:02:54] Ralph: So we decided, all right, well, let's differentiate ourselves here a little bit and do this split test. And we were getting really good results for them anyway. So with the pre-sale page, that sort of educates the consumer, takes them through a little bit more of the description, a little video in there too.

[00:03:13] Ralph: You can do all kinds of stuff and our media buying team actually created these instant experiences just like, Hey, why don't we try it? This, the Instant experience had got a 40 x return on ad spend, which is pretty amazing on a platform like Meta Now

[00:03:32] Kasim: insane.

[00:03:33] Ralph: for like, this is a really good offer. So by comparison their image ads we're actually doing a 30 X Pro as so, and these are ti some we started off with really tiny spend and then sort of scaled this up as we get, you know, got sort of some momentum and we went through the instant experience ads and started to really optimize the pages themselves.

[00:03:57] Ralph: So that was really the, the whole idea. It's like, I don't think many people have. Explored this as an ad type in quite some time because I, I think it was something that we've discussed here on the show, but I see it less and less, especially with the ads with higher consideration purchase. We have done this in the past for you know, other e-commerce companies that are in the health and beauty space.

[00:04:20] Ralph: For example, usually a pre-sale page to like a consideration purchase of maybe a hundred dollars or more. So I wouldn't necessarily recommend this for an impulse buy per se, cuz it is a fair amount of work. But I mean, when you're dealing with an average order value of anywhere between, you know, mid 100 s to maybe even upwards of a thousand, like an instant experience add is definitely something that you should consider.

[00:04:40] Ralph: So really good product offering here just to begin with from a pricing standpoint. But the instant experience ads, I mean, that's a 33% increase in return on ad spend in a very short period of time. Just by thinking sort of psychologically, hey, if I'm sending them straight to a product page, Like, why don't I pre-sell them?

[00:05:00] Ralph: And then after when they click through on the instant experience, they can then go and make the purchase offline. So you know, we're continuing to expand this one as well as looking for other ways in which to use it in other customer accounts.

[00:05:15] Kasim: You said it's a fair bit of work. Can you quantify that? Like, is it, is it analogous to building a landing page? You know, if I pulled up ClickFunnels or what it lead page is, or is it a little more, a little less?

[00:05:26] Ralph: I mean, , it's in platform, so you can actually sort of build it in real time, which is kind of cool. So, but what we did is we actually pulled sort of stock images from the stuff that they had given us some gifts, some video just about the product, like it being used, you know, in actual real practice.

[00:05:43] Ralph: So the, the page itself is probably about three or four thumb scrolls.

[00:05:50] Ralph: So, but each one is just really images of the product with like almost standardized branding that they had had prior. So there is a little bit of work in it. It's not like you can just launch the ad and then put in your link and then you're on your way.

[00:06:06] Ralph: So, I mean, this probably took, I would guess, you know, anywhere between 45 minutes to an hour and a. perhaps to, to put the whole thing together. But I mean, you have to have the raw assets to start off with, but it's not that much time like to put up an ad on Facebook. It literally takes like minutes to do it.

[00:06:24] Ralph: So this is a considerably longer period of time than just minutes. But still, I mean, this is, as long as you have the brand assets, this is something that you can sort of fiddle around with. and the interface inside meta is pretty good. Like, they do give you like, good ideas and sort of prompt you to be able to, you know, make sure that the instant experience page looks really good.

[00:06:44] Ralph: And the one that, you know, we've used here isn't super high end. I mean, it's a sort of low-fi to a certain degree. I mean, there is one pain which actually sort of, you can scroll horizontally, you can scroll vertically. I mean, there was some thought and, and some process put into it. But yeah, I mean, I would say it takes like less than an hour to do it if it's the first time that you're doing it.

[00:07:06] Ralph: And then once you get the hang of it, you can probably do it in a half hour or less.

[00:07:10] Kasim: Oh, it sounds like a no-brainer.

[00:07:11] Ralph: Yeah, absolutely. So, we'll keep you guys updated on how that campaign goes. We're getting some, you know, really interesting results so far on this. And you know, good products. I mean, at the end of the day, you have to actually have a product that people want out there in the world custom.

[00:07:25] Ralph: That's kind of an important one. You know, no amount of advertising necessarily makes up for a crappy offer. This is a good offer, a solid offer,

[00:07:32] Kasim: Well, quick question, Ralph, if you don't mind me being a shameless promoter of your new podcast, this instant experience thing, this is the type of thing you'd cover on the customer acquisition show, right?

[00:07:43] Ralph: Yeah, absolutely. This as well as advice and real world stuff coming from. You know, the internal tier 11 team. But the idea is really is, is customer acquisition. I mean, I think when you look at why do people do digital marketing, why are you online? What, what is your main goal? The main goal is to acquire new customers and ultimately enhance their lifetime value.

[00:08:06] Ralph: And the entire show is based upon that. Traffic is one component of that. But like, yeah, these are the types of insights. In this particular case, sort of after the click. You know, insights that we'll be talking about as well as sort of general business principles as well, which all lead to the idea of businesses thrive and grow online when they can acquire new customers from cold traffic and ultimately create lifetime value for those customers that continue to buy over and over and over again.

[00:08:34] Ralph: So that's what the whole show is about. It's called The Customer Acquisition Show. Check it out wherever you get your podcasts. check it out. Wherever you you listen to shows like this one.

[00:08:43] Kasim: That's awesome. I'm gonna tune in. I'm excited.

[00:08:46] Ralph: So, yeah. So without further ado, we're gonna get into today's show here. And this is a pretty awesome case study. I mean, you've got some pretty ridiculous numbers like in this chiropractic case study, like 300% increase in incoming calls, which is like the big thing, like you want high quality incoming calls into a bricks and mortar business.

[00:09:09] Ralph: And we're gonna be getting into that case study here right after this quick break.

[00:09:22] Ralph: All right, we are back and let's get into today's case study. Kasam. We mentioned it was a chiropractic practice. Tell us a little bit about the background and what you guys did and what kind of results you were able to produce for this customer.

[00:09:36] Kasim: Yeah, the fir, so chiropractic care is a really tough industry. In a lot of ways it's kind of a snake eating its own tail because, you know, if, if you just think about your own experience driving down the road and seeing a chiropractor, you almost always see a banner that says Free first adjustment. Dentistry does this too.

[00:09:53] Kasim: General dentistry is so hard because with dentists they offer free care cleaning x-rays, you know, on your first visit. And what ends up happening is, is you build this environment where people who. Want to be transient can be, you could get away with never paying for a dentist again. And all you have to do is just go to, you know, a new dentist every six months and, and do their new patient special.

[00:10:16] Kasim: So whenever I'm dealing with an industry like that, my advice is to lift yourself out of that ecosystem. And that's kind of what this client was doing. They were, you know, offering deals that were attracting the wrong type of patient. They were running traffic in a way that was very kind of transactional.

[00:10:32] Kasim: And they weren't really explaining the full spectrum of their value. So when they came to us, there was just a lot of cleanup that needed to happen. And one thing I will say is there are, there are a holistic integrative healthcare clinic. So it's not just chiropractic care, it's chiropractic care, acupuncture, functional medicine, physical therapy.

[00:10:48] Kasim: They have a pediatric arm. And so it, it gave us a little bit more to, to work with in terms of expansion, but it also made it a lot harder to figure out what we were gonna offer in target.

[00:10:57] Kasim: You know, so it was, it was very experimental. And interestingly we tried to pull the plug at our agency, ha about halfway through this experiment.

[00:11:06] Kasim: We got three or four months into it. And it's a low, low spend. We're spending two grand a month. Cause that's about as much as some of these clinics can afford. And we just weren't seeing the traction. And so we told the client like, Hey,

[00:11:16] Kasim: you know, usually around the 90 day mark, you wanna see a positive trend line.

[00:11:19] Kasim: And we didn't yet. And

[00:11:20] Kasim: We, we tried to jump ship and he wouldn't let us. Real cool doctor. Very entrepreneurial. And he's like, no, I trust you guys. Keep going. Let's try more stuff. So it was a, it's one of those things that I really like seeing when, when, you know you don't stop three feet from.

[00:11:34] Kasim: Because I don't know how many times I've done that in my professional career where, you know, I get scared. I, get gun shy and then I start to back off when really the thing to do is to hit the gas. And, the other piece about traffic, and you kind of spoke to this a little bit, I think before the, the ad break, if you have a good offer, keep going.

[00:11:53] Kasim: You know, like that's, that's a, if you, if you really believe in what you're offering and really think it's a value now, it's, it's really just a math problem we have to solve. And I think that was the case here. We just really needed to figure out, you know, how the offer was articulated, how we brought it to the market, how we spoke about it.

[00:12:10] Kasim: And just to, to end with the, the good part, and then we can talk about how we got here. We had 105% increase. Total conversion actions. So, you know, forms, chats, downloads 27% decrease in the cost per conversion, which is, that's even more drastic than it sounds because ourlead quality went up dramatically.

[00:12:30] Kasim: And I'll talk about that a little bit here in just a moment. The real KPI though, for this particular clinic was phone calls, and that's usually the case for brick and mortar. This clinic had a, a, an awesome intake process. So my experience has generally been the person answering the phone is the least qualified person in the business.

[00:12:46] Kasim: And this doc is, he's, he's an entrepreneur before he is a doctor. He'll be the first one to tell you that. And so his intake process was rock solid. And, and, what he was going for were incoming calls. And so we had a 300% increase in incoming calls. Took us about six months before we really cracked the code.

[00:12:59] Kasim: We spent 12 grand. And we've got, our average cost per lead is about 50 bucks. We're still working out the total like lifetime value cost per patient because again, the, the success on this is about 60 days old.

[00:13:12] Ralph: yeah, what, what was the cost per lead prior to engaging with you all? Just from a, a pure, and not even talking about quality here. So cost per lead, I, I have to assume. Take us through maybe the, the, the funnel too, so we understand like where the, the scheduled call actually comes in or where the incoming calls sort of come in.

[00:13:32] Ralph: Like take us through that and sort of before and after. Cuz $50 sounds pretty good for a chiropractic practice, at least to

[00:13:39] Kasim: $50 is unreal. , it's actually so good. If somebody came to me and said, Hey, I wanna hire you. If you can do that again, this is gonna be so heavily dependent on your geography, the competition in your geography, et cetera. But it's, it's a, it's a phenomenal result for him.

[00:13:51] Kasim: His,

[00:13:51] Kasim: pre solutions eight funnel was, it reminded me a lot of what CrossFit gyms do.

[00:13:56] Kasim: He just dropped a pin, went on a 15 mile radius, and then carpet bombed his entire ecosystem inside of Facebook with one of those free adjustment offers or free first evaluation offers.

[00:14:09] Kasim: And the conversion was actually scheduling. So he was, you know, going for the, the phone number was in the ads, which I don't know, Ralph, you tell me if that generally works instead of Facebook.

[00:14:19] Kasim: I've noticed that anytime you have a text heavy ad it kinda gets deprioritized. But that's my amateur opinion since I don't run as many Facebook ads as you do. But the conversion action was scheduled an appointment, which is funny from a guy who told me that calling is the most important action that they have.

[00:14:32] Kasim: And his cost per lead wasn't horrible, but his show rate was abysmal.

[00:14:38] Kasim: So his cost per somebody who showed up was a couple hundred bucks. And then the people that showed almost never retained. And that was the real problem. And I see this again, you know, using the gyms as an example. I've got a buddy, Tim Lyons he owns a company called Profi Marketing Solutions, and all they do are CrossFit gyms.

[00:14:56] Kasim: And he's fighting this right now because all of his clients, all the, all these gyms run these crazy specials, you know, it's like 12 weeks free, or 12 weeks or 12 bucks or whatever. And he goes, you just get the people that. You know, transient cycle out. They never, ever, ever stay. It's the Groupon buyer and we've kinda, there's this whole undercurrent of these Groupon buyers that just come in for the deal.

[00:15:18] Kasim: And that's what this chiropractic clinic was jenning up. And so we had to find a way to attract an entirely new audience. And what's really weird, and this will get maybe more philosophical than it should, is I think the same person can be both. You could take Ralph Burns and show him an ad and teach him to be a Groupon buyer.

[00:15:36] Kasim: Or you could take Ralph Burns and show him an ad. And, and it's not just the ad, right? It's the whole experience, the entire narrative the offer, the, the, the post-click and then teach Ralph to be like a really good customer. And I think a big problem here is a lot of people are teaching their client base to be group fund buyers.

[00:15:50] Kasim: And you gotta stay as far away from that as you can. Cause they're the worst buyers.

[00:15:54] Ralph: so yeah, I, I agree. Like not all leads are created equal for sure. So, as a bricks and mortar business. And I think just a, a, any kind of business, like I think you always have to balance cheap leads versus quality leads. If you can get cheap leads and quality leads, you're kind of in like digital marketing nirvana.

[00:16:17] Ralph: And I would say I, I haven't seen that. As much as I've seen, get a little better on the quality side. You know, sacrifice something on your cost per lead, per se. But then at the end of the day, it's kinda like some of our other case studies. It doesn't really matter how many people you have come in, it's how many people actually buy, like, what's the action

[00:16:39] Ralph: way at the end of that?

[00:16:40] Ralph: And I think tracking that all the way through can be very instructive that that is a process for sure. And I think, you know, just in general, if you think about human psychology, if you're gonna put something out there that is cheap, you're probably gonna get a cheap buyer in most cases, all things being equal.

[00:16:59] Ralph: However, how do you sort of balance that in this particular case, which is I think applicable for any business, especially anyone that that is in the lead generation business. I mean, at the end of the day, Most businesses start off with a lead at one point in time or some kind of engagement with the brand, whether you're e-commerce, whether you're digital, whether you're service, whether you're a lead gen company, like at some point in time you have to like engage them.

[00:17:24] Ralph: And that's typically your front end offer. Like what is it that you're gonna hook them in? How are you gonna evoke their curiosity at that level one traffic? But then how are you gonna balance it with the actual rail buyer? So how did you guys sort of make that transition here, especially when you know, Show rates, you know, schedule, I wanna say book to schedule calls, cuz that's sort of the thing that always sort of goes in my head.

[00:17:47] Ralph: But it's really, it's, it's incoming calls in this particular case intake. And then there has to be a process after that. So then that sort of, that filtering process is part of your sales funnel per se. Which, if it's intact, if they actually do have a good filtering process, they do have a good screening process on the front end, that's obviously gonna make your ads more powerful.

[00:18:08] Ralph: So we can talk about that, but how do you sort of balance that all out to get the result that you guys got here

[00:18:15] Kasim: I wish I could say that we were super intentional, like we should have probably had more of a process. As far as like, you know, here's every avatar that we can target because they had a lot of avatars. You know, you could do medical weight loss or you know amateur athletes or they had a pediatric arm.

[00:18:29] Kasim: And then here's every practice line of line of practice. The issue though is I think in the beginning we probably let the client lead a little too much and. That can be a pretty distinct error.

[00:18:43] Kasim: And we, we, what what sucked about it too is we had a client that was super receptive to our leadership.

[00:18:47] Kasim: And, and again, this is where maybe I got a little too gun shy, but the question became, what patients do you want? Who makes you the most money? You know, kind of the standard questions you ask As an agency, how would I go get myself some quick wins? And given his context and how much advertising he'd done, I should have started from a blank slate and said, you know, every

[00:19:06] Kasim: practice area to every audience and kind of done, you know, the Performance Max model.

[00:19:10] Kasim: Like, let me just see what this ecosystem looks like holistically and then narrow down from there. And that's what we ultimately ended up doing when we started to see success. So for the first two, three months, we were just going after the bottom of the funnel, quick wins.

[00:19:22] Kasim: And that proved to be a failing model.

[00:19:26] Kasim: So if somebody goes to Google and searches for, you know, integrative healthcare, acupuncture, chiropractor, and you're within 20 miles of my clinic, you're gonna see my ad. The problem is, is that's a dog fight. And it's a dog fight that we were losing. Our c p was way too high, lead quality was too low. And that's when we started to come back and just say, Hey Doc, I just don't think this is gonna work in your geo.

[00:19:44] Kasim: And he's like, no, no, no, keep going.

[00:19:46] Kasim: So we decided to get a little more creative with some of his prompting. And the thing that really worked for us was this $99 promo. And, you know, to the point that you, you're making just a moment ago, as far as like your introduction to the, the, the client, the patient.

[00:20:00] Kasim: In this instance, you wanna do something that's compell. And the 99 promo was compelling, but instead of doing like your free adjustment that all the other chiropractors are doing, we took the fact that they're an integrative clinic. So that's their big, big value proposition. It's not just chiropractic care.

[00:20:16] Kasim: Cause generally speaking, you don't just need chiropractic care. You know, you also probably need a conversation about nutrition.

[00:20:22] Kasim: And it's

[00:20:22] Kasim: shocking how often nutrition plays into chiropractic care and, and back health. And then, you know, acupuncture, functional medicine, physical therapy, like all of these things are, you know, different arms to kind of the, like the same solution.

[00:20:33] Kasim: And so we had this $99 promo that included, like this integrated package. And what I really liked about it is it was still very compelling, but it was compelling to the right type of patient. It was somebody that actually took out their wallet and paid real money. You know, a hundred bucks is probably the line of demarcation where you start to think about your purchases and it was somebody that was more interested in.

[00:20:55] Kasim: The integrative approach, you know, they were intrinsically qualified by this offer and it also gave the docs the ability to pivot based off of the patient's needs. and that's the other thing too that's really interesting about this particular service is people think they need, and the, the doctor's the first one to tell me this, people think they need chiropractic care.

[00:21:12] Kasim: Oh, my back hurts. And, and you come in and he's like, you don't need chiropractic care at all. That's kinda the quick fix. You need physical therapy or you need acupuncture, we need to switch up, you know, the way you're sleeping or the way that you're breathing. Interestingly, like all these things factor into, you know, spinal adjustments and just things that I'm not medically qualified even start to speak to.

[00:21:31] Kasim: And so we, we created an offer that allowed them this sort of consultative approach. So that's one of the things that I would tell people is when you bring in a new customer or a new client, or a new patient or whatever it ends up being, try to bring them in in a way that lets you be the doctor. You know, like you, you don't want them self-diagnosing and coming in and saying, I need this.

[00:21:53] Kasim: And if you're selling, you know, a free adjustment or a $7 adjustment or whatever it is, you're actually selling the post-diagnosis. And you know, they've already, they're self prescribed, so try to bring them in pre-diagnosis and pred description prescription because you are the doc, you know, or you're the professional.

[00:22:09] Kasim: And this is true for everything. This is true for auto mechanics. Like, don't sell the oil change, sell the comprehensive review, or whatever it ends up being. But as soon as you sell the solution especially in in any industry where the client as educated as you are and probably shouldn't be the one defining the solution, you've put yourself at a massive disadvantage.

[00:22:29] Kasim: And I mean, gosh, now that I'm thinking about Ralph, it's so funny. That's probably true for our business too. You know, that's why my Google ads, I, I've, over 15 years, I've tested so many offers and it's the action plan that works. It's like, Hey, let me look at everything. , you know? And then once I look at everything, I'm gonna give you a plan of action as to how to move forward as opposed to something that lets the client sort of back themselves into what they think they need.

[00:22:50] Ralph: so I think this is a really good discussion on offer unto

[00:22:54] Ralph: itself. So before they were working with you, were they doing that? Come in for a free uh, adjustment?

[00:23:04] Ralph: Okay. All right. So they're coming in for the thing that they think is the problem. It's really, it's the feature, not necessarily the benefit. It's

[00:23:12] Kasim: And then they felt a bait and switch when the doc was like, you actually need I, and they're like, I know you doctors are the same. You're just trying to sell me. He's like, no, you actually need acupuncture.

[00:23:21] Ralph: So the expectation is I'm gonna get a free adjustment, but from this guy, but then in actuality, the fulfillment of that promise is, oh, you need something else. Because

[00:23:33] Ralph: we're a full service clinic, which has wellness. the ultimate goal here. It's not necessarily an adjustment that you think that you need.

[00:23:42] Ralph: And how many times have we gone to the doctor? Well, may, maybe not in your case, but I mean, at least in my case, like I think it's something else, I'm like, yeah, this is definitely it. And I self-diagnose all the time cuz I had 20 years in medical.

[00:23:53] Ralph: So it's like, I'm always like, yeah doc, this is it. And I, you know, I've got a good relationship with my doctors are like yeah, that's that's great Ralph.

[00:24:00] Ralph: Why don't we run some tests and actually really find out yeah, Dr. Ralph. So anyway, but the point is, is like, I get what you're going for here. So they flip the script on this. Is this it almost seems like this is less of a Google case study to me as I'm sort of feeling it. And it's more of an offer, re re reality.

[00:24:18] Ralph: Like

[00:24:19] Ralph: we're not really even talking about how Google ads work quite yet, which we certainly will. But the point is, is you flip the script on that, which is. $99 special. And that evaluation was what again? Like a, a whole health evaluation. Like

[00:24:35] Kasim: Whole health evaluation. Yeah. It gave, it gave the doctor the opportunity to sort of use all the tools on his tool belt without making a pre prescripted promise. And I like that you used the word wellness because in our split testing we found that wellness was the term that resonated with this particular avatar the most as people that were going after long-term wellness.

[00:24:54] Kasim: And so, yeah, it was this $99 whole health evaluation that, you know, sort of gave them the chance to really over-deliver. Cuz people are coming in, you know Everybody's coming in with a problem. And then now this clinic gets to go, Hey, we're gonna try a little chiropractic care, but before we do that, we're gonna loosen you up with some acupuncture and with, you know, and, and now instead of feeling a bait and switch, you actually feel like, oh my goodness, there's, there's so many things that are available here to me.

[00:25:17] Kasim: It was, it was an awesome little pivot. And again, it's something that we just kind of stumbled upon and, and we only stumbled upon it after we, we stopped listening to exactly what the client thought was gonna work and started playing around with, you know, what the marketer felt might resonate with the audience.

[00:25:33] Ralph: Mm. This is a really, this is a really interesting conversation here. I think it's so much larger than just ads per se. It's all about human psychology and emotion and all the things that go along with it, because you have to sort of walk this fine line when you do a lead magnet. for example, like you'll go after the thing that they think they actually really need.

[00:25:58] Ralph: And actually they just want it, but it's not necessarily a thing they need.

[00:26:03] Kasim: Mm-hmm.

[00:26:04] Ralph: perfect example for us in at tier 11 is that we, people come to us for Facebook ads, right? But it's like that's not the thing that actually they probably need the most. And so to your point, like our growth plan, like we give away a growth plan, and that growth plan is yes, it can include all these other things, but you know, it could include Google Ads, it could include all kinds of stuff.

[00:26:29] Ralph: It could include like offer optimization and augmentation. It could be everything. It's almost like you have to think about your business sort of more in a holistic way. And your offer is crafted based. That big benefit that you deliver.

[00:26:43] Ralph: Right?

[00:26:43] Ralph: And you know, in this particular case, in this chiropractic office, it's not just chiropractic, it's overall wellness.

[00:26:49] Ralph: And you're getting them to pay you know, a chunk of change up front, which just completely shifts the paradigm. And now you're no longer going after like that one thing that people think that they actually really need. It's bring me the thing that they just want, when in fact you're giving a real diagnosis and ultimately a prescription for what's best for them overall from a overall wellness standpoint.

[00:27:14] Ralph: And I think any business can think about this, sort of take a step back and say, well, how am I approaching the market? Am I actually approaching it with the overall wellness angle or am I just trying to scratch this one little itch that they have way down here? And then trying to sell them on the whole kitten caboodle once they're actually in and they're talking to my sales guy.

[00:27:35] Kasim: Yeah, I, I had a experience personally, my wife and I bought a house last year and we had some issues with the pool and we kept bringing in the pool cleaner guys, and it was all, you know, you'd get the valve pack or the door hanger, the whatever, and everybody was offering you know, it's, it's all basically the same thing.

[00:27:49] Kasim: It's like first month, free year, first cleaning, free year, whatever. And they'd come down and they'd start with the cleaning and it, it never really fixed whatever issues we were running into. I finally paid a guy, I forgot what it was, it was like 300 bucks for like a comprehensive analysis or whatever, and he goes there was, there was a part of the filtering mechanism that needed to be replaced.

[00:28:06] Kasim: And so I'm, I'm diagnosing myself and saying, oh, we just need a different pool cleaner. They're not doing the chemicals right. They're not coming often enough, whatever it is. And all the pool cleaners kept selling me what I was asking for. And this guy was like, Hey, before I do that, you gotta gimme, I, and I think it was three or $400.

[00:28:21] Kasim: It was not like an. It was a tax relevant sum of money.

[00:28:25] Kasim: You know, like it's say a couple hundred bucks more and I had to issue a 10 99 and, and then the guy comes down and it didn't take him 40 minutes to figure out like, oh no dude, you gotta replace this whole separate piece here. This is what's what the problem is.

[00:28:39] Kasim: So I've been as guilty as anybody else it self-diagnosis,

[00:28:44] Ralph: Yeah. So how did you guys, and we'll get into the, the actual tactics here in just a bit. How did you make that transition from the freebie giveaway, like everybody else over to this different package? Was it, how did you, was it something that he was offering maybe in a different way and like, how did that evolution occur?

[00:29:05] Ralph: Because you can now go out to chiropractic offices throughout the entire world, I would guess,

[00:29:10] Ralph: and probably make this same sort of diagnosis. So, but how did you come up on that, that wellness package? The nine and $99 in particular, like there's so many different, you know, parts to this which are are worthy of, of examination.

[00:29:25] Kasim: Yeah, the price point is just, that's classic pricing psychology. It's two digits, not three,

[00:29:30] Kasim: you know, so it, depending on what you're offering and where you can afford to be. But the package came from us listening to their phone calls. So this is actually a Tier 11 note and one that we stole from y'all.

[00:29:39] Kasim: They would have patients calling in and, and we very few agencies do this. If I don't, you don't mind me patting myself on the back.

[00:29:45] Kasim: We listen to and score every single phone call that we catalyze the solutions, like every single one. It's a nightmare of a job. You know, you're just sitting there sort of pounding through all of these recordings and then seeing what people are doing right and what they're doing wrong.

[00:29:57] Kasim: But it's so valuable for us because we can actually see what our ads are generating, what issues people are really having, whether they're not the client's doing good lead intake, which the answer is generally no.

[00:30:06] Kasim: Especially in the beginning. These guys were crushing it. But we started listening. How the patients were talking and what they were saying, what they were asking for, and the, the quality leads, which at the time, especially in the beginning were fewer you know, few and far between.

[00:30:21] Kasim: But the quality leads that we saw were all interested in this more integrative approach. And, and they were also really interested in talking to, that was one of the really big questions. Am I actually gonna get to talk to the doctor? Like, are you just gonna, you know, do I like, I wanna talk to the doctor.

[00:30:35] Kasim: and it was a lot of kind of, You could almost say hypochondria. And, and I'm saying this is somebody who's had a lot of health problems. Like if you've had a lot of health problems you need to just stop and say, Hey, before you gimme this pill, I wanna talk to you about all the implications.

[00:30:50] Kasim: And so that was the kind of the aha moment to where we're like, all right, how about you pay a hundred bucks? And, and then we, we kind of hand you, you know, talk about the Swiss Army knife that's available to us and the fact that we're gonna sit down and build this integrative health plan for you. And, and that's the thing that really started to, to cook.

[00:31:05] Kasim: And what's funny about it is we were extreme bottom of the funnel in the beginning, which is a, which, a catastrophic error, which is so funny for a Google guy to say, cuz we live at the bottom of the funnel. And it was the, the handful of quality bottom of the funnel leads that we were getting. And it sort of taught us that,

[00:31:19] Kasim: man, this is a real need in the market that people aren't giving.

[00:31:23] Kasim: And so not only did we pivot the offer, we pivoted the way that we were speaking to the audience. Instead of going bottom of the funnel, we actually sort of played a little of the Facebook game. We just did it inside of YouTube. We dropped a pin, we went 20 miles around the clinic. And we did that, by the way.

[00:31:36] Kasim: Cause we, we analyzed his, his patient over the last like 15 years or whatever, and 80% of his patients are coming from within 20 miles.

[00:31:42] Kasim: And every geo is different. You know, if you're in San Fran, it's probably 80% coming within five. If you're in Fargo, North Dakota, it could be 30, whatever. So he had 80% of his patient base coming from within 20 miles.

[00:31:53] Kasim: And maybe it was 15 a week span a little bit, I don't remember. But you know, that 20 mile radius mark was good for his clinic. And then we ran heavy top of funnel YouTube ads and to that entire ecosystem. Like you couldn't be within 20 miles within the demo that we were targeting and not see those ads.

[00:32:08] Kasim: And to nod at another episode, you and I just did, we ran patient stories. And so it was, you know, I didn't know what was wrong. I was despondent. I'd been to a couple of doctors already. I'd just kind of given up and then, And it's, it's just this non, and you know, it's dangerous to do with medical because Google and Facebook both aren't very medical friendly.

[00:32:27] Kasim: That's why you never wanna tell somebody what they have in the ad instead, you know, I can't talk about you, but I can have Larry talk about Larry

[00:32:35] Kasim: and those, those ended up being really, really, really powerful. What's interesting about the YouTube top of funnel traffic is I can attribute zero leads to that YouTube campaign, literal zero.

[00:32:48] Kasim: This is within the Google ecosystem. Google's attribution, even within their own ecosystem, can be really abysmal, especially if you're talking about long sales cycles. But all of a sudden

[00:32:56] Kasim: between the, the YouTube top of funnel building the patient case studies, and then as people started to coming to the site, whatever remarketing were able to do, cause it's medical. And then, you know, the, the kind of more full funnel traffic approach that YouTube campaign warmed up this audience and then gave us the opportunity to drop a middle and bottom of funnel where we offered this promo. And that's the promo that just really started to work. And then of course, your show rate's a hundred percent.

[00:33:22] Kasim: Cause there's, somebody's gonna pay a hundred bucks, they're gonna show up. Which was another nice little, you know filtering mechanism at the very beginning.

[00:33:28] Ralph: So really appreciate that.

[00:33:29] Ralph: So head on over to Soul eight. Com, so l the number eight.com/chiro for this template, especially if you're a chiropractor or a service-based business and you're local. I think that's super, super helpful.

[00:33:43] Ralph: Also, make sure you go over to the Customer Acquisition show wherever you listen to podcasts. I'm gonna plug it this time because this is exactly the kind of stuff that I think businesses really need to know. Yes, traffic is a component of that, but it's everything in the whole holistic view of how to win in the online world, how to acquire more customers, and how to enhance their lifetime value, which is really what you probably want to do.

[00:34:07] Ralph: And I think you were able to really do this here with this chiropractic customer here at Csum. So kudos to that. But head on over and watch listen to wherever you listen to podcasts, the customer acquisition show. Tell us what we can do better here at Perpetual Traffic. Go over to perpetual traffic.com/better We do listen to all of those suggestions, read them

[00:34:28] Ralph: and subscribe and leave a rating wherever you're listening to Perpetual Traffic. And you can follow me on LinkedIn. That's Ralph Burns LinkedIn and casa over at Twitter at Casa Alam. Make sure you go back and listen to previous episodes of this show and all resources and show notes that we mentioned here are over@perpetualtraffic.com.

[00:34:50] Ralph: On behalf of my awesome co-host, Casa Muslim, until next show, see ya.

[00:34:58] Ralph: .