Why a Layoff Can Be a Blessing in Disguise

[00:00:00] Casey: Everyone out there is feeling the exact same thing. You are. Everyone's got the same anxieties. Everyone's got the same fears. The only difference is that once you take the reins and now you're in control, you realize it isn't so scary that You were more scared as a full time employee because you weren't in control if you're going to get laid off or not, or what kind of work you're going to get.

[00:00:22] Casey: But once you have those reins, you realize that there is a lot of work out here to do. You just need to go out and find it. It's not as scary as you think.

[00:00:31] LuRae: Welcome to And Then I Did This. Prepare to be inspired as we celebrate the unique journeys of individuals who've had the courage to break free and live life on their own terms. Their lives prove that you truly can be free to live your best and most authentic life. Let's get to it. Welcome to the show.

[00:00:55] LuRae: I have a special and interesting guest today. Casey Hald, he is a former NASDAQ senior product designer, Experian senior UX engineer, among other roles. And about a year ago, he stepped out of his corporate roles and is the founder and owner of Birdstreet.co, a web design company specializing in software development and UX design.

[00:01:17] LuRae: So Casey, welcome to the show.

[00:01:18] Casey: Thanks, LuRae. Thanks for having me on.

[00:01:20] LuRae: Share a little about your background and how you got to where you are. It's an interesting set of companies that I rattled off there.

[00:01:28] Casey: Yeah, I know. I have been doing web design pretty much since my very early twenties. Started in a ad agency and my first job really was to take designs from the designer and then code them into HTML.

[00:01:44] Casey: And I did that for, I would maybe do 10 to 15 websites a month. It was a lot. That agency I worked for when I was like 21, 22, we did mostly political campaigns, so we did a lot of those like proposition websites that they launched for a couple of months and then take down and they launched new ones and take them down.

[00:02:02] Casey: So I developed the muscle memory pretty quickly on coding websites, and it got me kind of curious into the design process.

[00:02:09] LuRae: Right.

[00:02:09] Casey: But this is kind of cool. I want to start designing a little bit and see what that's like. And since I had already built websites that were pre designed, it gave me the confidence to design them myself.

[00:02:19] Casey: So I went to junior college for a bit and studied design and multimedia and then, just kind of went on from there. And, had been working in, I mean, I call it web design, but like you saw the titles are like product designer, user researcher, UX design, product design. To me, it's all kind of under the same umbrella really. So I had luckily been doing that discipline pretty much my entire adult life.

[00:02:43] LuRae: Yeah, that's so wild because having that coding mentality, but then also being able to interpret it into marketing and visuals and I hadn't really thought about just the disciplines together that really to do it well, you have to be able to do both.

[00:02:59] Casey: Right. Yeah, a little bit. I've turned into like a generalist. So, with the company that I run now, I have one client where I'm just strictly doing design work for them and user research. So I help them create designs. That have been backed by usability tests with their customers, and then I don't have to worry about the development at all, they have a whole development company, which is great.

[00:03:21] Casey: And then I have another client, which I'm solely just doing development for, so I kind of have to use both disciplines on separate day. I can't do both things on the same day, I have to choose one day for design and then another day for development, otherwise it's too much for my brain, too much context switching.

[00:03:37] LuRae: Right, right, right. So what led you to step out on your own? Obviously, those companies that you referenced are pretty big name, probably high pressure type roles. So talk a little bit about that.

[00:03:49] Casey: Yeah. So it's kind of like, , uh, what's the saying? Into the frying pan out of the front. I'm probably saying that I'm butchering that.

[00:03:55] Casey: Yeah.

[00:03:56] LuRae: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:03:58] Casey: Yeah. Yeah. So happened upon FinTech and stayed within FinTech for most of my career. And that's why you see my career history and NASDAQ, and Experian, and iEX, and several trading companies that have a lot to do with financial data. And that was sort of like a happy accident.

[00:04:14] Casey: I just kind of landed in a role and then just stuck with it. And that became my speciality, I guess. So that's how that happened. And me branching out on my own wasn't intentional at all, I had no plan on being an entrepreneur on working for myself, but after my last gig and the layoffs that happened, which I don't blame them at all.

[00:04:35] Casey: It was kind of like the right time, the right place. It was time from time for me to go. I was like, okay, I can go one of two ways. Either I can start applying now with This huge tech layoff that's been going on the last six months and wait for maybe six months or more to land my next gig because all of the engineers that are looking for work right now, or I can branch out on my own and create my own LLC.

[00:05:02] Casey: And I have developed a network in that 15 year history where I can reach out to them and ask them if there's any work to do, and so I was like, I'm just going to go that route because I don't have the energy. I was kind of burnt out. I didn't want to do any interviews with any companies really. So I was to give this a shot. And Luckily, it's kind of worked out in my favor.

[00:05:21] LuRae: Yeah, I hear you, man. I mean, when we look at what's happening right now out there, God bless the people actually have a LinkedIn post ready to go with like five things to do if you think you're at risk of being laid off.

[00:05:32] Casey: Yeah.

[00:05:33] LuRae: mean, when I started my career is like my brother, he ultimately retired from the phone company and I was like 15 years into it and I could have stayed that route. I was almost vested to get the whatever early retirement and I was like, no, I can't, I had too many things I wanted to do, too many, too many dreams to pursue.

[00:05:50] LuRae: And so got out before I got siloed. But right now, I think that was a wise move on your part. So what's your experience been now that you're more independent, doing your own thing, contrasting back to pre breaking free life.

[00:06:04] Casey: Sure. Yeah. there's definitely different working dynamics between being a full time employee and working for myself.

[00:06:10] Casey: Obviously the good parts about it is I get to choose my own hours. I get to choose my work, choose who I get to work with. I get more liberties within my day. Because we're neighbors, like we were walking our dogs and you mentioned that you're taking a nap. I was like, yeah, I'm probably going to be taking a nap to a two o'clock.

[00:06:27] Casey: Couldn't do that as a full time employee, but working for myself as long as I get my projects done, I don't have a set working day. So those are definite pluses. Obviously, the caveats is when you're a full time employee, when that paycheck is coming, as LLC owner slash contractor, my paychecks are sporadic. So it's kind of feast or famine. So far it hasn't been famine, which is great. And I've been in business for a little more than a year now, which is cool. So yeah, you get sporadic paychecks and also having more free time. You need to develop more self discipline. Because you are holding yourself liable to the work that you're doing, right?

[00:07:06] LuRae: Right.

[00:07:07] Casey: So you can't just point fingers. You can't say, oh, this wasn't done because X person didn't go through that department or whatever. That doesn't exist anymore. It's all on you.

[00:07:14] LuRae: Right!

[00:07:15] Casey: So you kind of need to develop the self discipline to still work every day, dress for work, I still wear polos even though I don't really have to when it's time to work.

[00:07:23] LuRae: Right.

[00:07:23] Casey: I'm not in pajamas, so , I have to get myself in that working mode. Otherwise I'll just go back to napping with my kitty cat, . You know what I mean?

[00:07:32] LuRae: Yeah, I hear you. I hear you. And it's interesting because when I look back at myself, because I was in that corporate world for so long, I mean, that might, you know, went from the phone company to commuting to San Francisco from Phoenix, for a couple of years and then went up in New York ultimately. And I was so ingrained with feeling guilty. If I'm at 8 am or first thing, if I'm not doing something, I was feeling some kind of guilt. So I've had to deprogram myself that we all have different rhythms of when we're most productive, when we are most energized. And exactly to your point, having routine so that we do do the things that we're meant to do, and then, in some cases, I've had to have like an off switch, I didn't realize they had not taken any vacation time since I left my last agency role, I hate to say it, 2015, it hit me last fall, I was like, I've not taken any official vacation time! No wonder I'm feeling a little worn out or burned out. So I did take a week and it was like, wow, this is amazing. But at the same time to think that I wasn't really missing it during that time, because I was doing what I like to do with people I like to work with, during working times that were right for me. So there are pros and cons to everything. Yeah.

[00:08:50] Casey: Yeah, and it's funny that you mentioned that because when I got laid off, because it had been a while since we went on vacation, I was like, why don't we just take 3 months or not 3 months? Why don't we just take a month and just go on the road? And do a cross country road trip. So we did that, we drove across the Northern states, all the way to Niagara Falls, and then went, through the East coast and checked out New York and Massachusetts. And then we drove home through the South and, Louisiana, New Orleans, and it was cool.

[00:09:16] Casey: We saw a lot of historical sites and it was just nice just being on the road, just living life, not worried about clocking in or clocking out and, being able to experience those free liberties that when you're a full time employee, like you said, you mentioned the weird guilt that you get for taking sick time or vacation time. You know what I mean? It's a really weird , thing cause there shouldn't be any guilt, you're paying for that time. So it's a weird thing.

[00:09:39] LuRae: Exactly. Yeah. I don't want to say, but not, you know, this sounds like, yeah. Oh, force myself to go to the beach. But you know, we live like 10, 15 minutes on the beach, but I made myself on a Monday in the morning, go to the beach.

[00:09:53] LuRae: And then it hit me the other day. And I don't stay that long. I mean, I walk the dog hour and a half, maybe drive time. And then it hit me the other day. It's like, yeah. Do I even take like a quote unquote lunch break? I mean, it's like if I felt I needed to justify it, which this is like ludicrous that we're even talking like this, but it's like, why would I not feel like, okay, just going to go do that?

[00:10:17] LuRae: Because we're blessed to be this close to the beach. I mean, why not take advantage of it? You know, but it

[00:10:24] Casey: is. I do the same thing. Yeah, I like going to T Street in San Clemente. And I'll do a walk. Like, I surf. I mean, I haven't surfed the last couple months just because it's been super cold, but I'll still go like on a beach walk.

[00:10:38] Casey: So I'll do that like once or twice a week, just because like you mentioned, it's so convenient. It's like right there. And it's, you know, it's just kind of like a nice mental detox.

[00:10:46] LuRae: Exactly. So for people who are in that mode of, you know, they're like holding on for dear life to the paycheck and it's like, Oh, you know, I hope I don't get laid off or, you know, just head down.

[00:10:59] LuRae: I don't want to think about it. What? What advice would you give for people who could be living a more free life? Potentially.

[00:11:06] Casey: It's not as scary as you think it is. Like, cause that was my first thing when I got laid off. It's like, you know, Oh, the faucets turned off. Like, you know, what's going to happen.

[00:11:19] Casey: But I feel like with life, you're kind of, you shouldn't, like, you should be prepared. But you should also be prepared for things to not turn out in your favor, but be okay with it. Like, I to think of it as like you're a canoe in a river, you can go left or right, but that river is going to take you where it wants to take you, right?

[00:11:41] Casey: So you should have sort of a preferred indifference about it. And that's how I kind of approached it. It's like, okay, this happened. This was the worst thing that could happen. Right. And I'm okay. I'm fine. You know, take it day by day, send emails to people in your network, see if they have any work, go to networking advances or defenses, go to networking events.

[00:12:04] Casey: I think that's super important. cause that also helps with your confidence and talking with other people that are related to your business or within your network, growing your network. And you realize that everyone out there is feeling the exact same thing you are. Everyone's got the same anxieties.

[00:12:23] Casey: Everyone's got the same fears. the only difference is that once you take the reins and now you're in control, you realize it isn't so scary that you were more scared as a full time employee because you were, you know, you weren't in control. If you're going to get laid off or not, or what kind of work you're going to get.

[00:12:43] Casey: But once you have those reins, you realize that there is a lot of work out here to do. There's plenty of work out here to do. You just need to go out and, you know, find it.

[00:12:52] LuRae: And,

[00:12:53] Casey: you know, it's not as scary as you think, I guess is what I'm trying to say.

[00:12:56] LuRae: Yeah. And I have always said, you know, that once you get out of your comfort zone, you realize it wasn't all that comfortable.

[00:13:04] Casey: yeah, exactly.

[00:13:06] LuRae: Because it's that illusion of, oh, you know, the paycheck being safe, but I just remember being in executive roles myself, we always had a short list. We always had a, okay, you know, if we need to downsize, right size, you know, whatever the phrase of the day was, we always had a list and so, and being reliant on someone else.

[00:13:29] LuRae: for your income. I mean, it's not as safe, especially now than it used to be. I mean, I think I know one of the things I am doing is putting together something called the income accelerator for LinkedIn because I used LinkedIn. I'll share this with you at the point that it's ready to go because you can There are so many people and companies and individuals even who are looking for people to do work like you do, like I do, and I get opportunities in my notifications on LinkedIn every week, and it's because I've set up.

[00:14:06] LuRae: My, you know, page of my account in such a way that, that I can get those and there's just as you said, there's so much work that can be done that people can do independently without that, I'll say noose around the neck, I have this horrible visual, it's real, there's like slow death and So, yeah.

[00:14:27] LuRae: Rapid death. One is a tie around their neck, slow death, and the other one is a noose. So, you can pick your poison, you know, and I think freedom, and once you step out into making your own income and realize it's not that difficult, yeah, you learn new skills and skill stack, just like you've done, you know, and you leverage what you learned while you were on the clock or, you know, As an employee and then leverage that and work independently for yourself.

[00:14:59] LuRae: I mean, that, so what are the ways that you keep yourself motivated?

[00:15:05] Casey: you mentioned routine before, and I think routine is like the most important thing you can do to keep yourself motivated because once you have a set routine, like you're going to work X amount of hours in the morning, give yourself a lunch break, give yourself a walk, you know.

[00:15:20] Casey: Have an hour where you can take a nap or do whatever, and then have the after work routine, doing things around the house, having a routine. Dispels anxieties like it's such a weird thing. Like if I have a set routine and I go to the gym and I, you know, do my daily things and I do them consistently, I don't have any of that negative self talk or those anxieties that would, I would.

[00:15:43] Casey: I would typically get if I have too much time on my hands. And that's the thing is when you're working for yourself, you can easily have too much time on your hands. And when you feel like you have nothing to do, that's when all the anxieties come back in and all the fear comes back in and all that negative self talk.

[00:15:58] Casey: And. I feel like routine is the best way to keep yourself motivated. And I also think going out there and talking with people going to networking events, spending the money to go to these conferences is so important because you will continue to grow your network. Once you grow that network, you build a reputation and then before you know it, you'll start getting an emails.

[00:16:22] Casey: Asking for work and that's, I mean, I don't cold call, I don't do a whole lot of salesmanship. I just network, you know, and so I feel like that also helps with motivation.

[00:16:34] LuRae: yeah, I hear you. I probably said no to people more than I've had to say yes, do you know, because having. I think as we were saying, like when we get into the mode of the whole, I won't say capitalism isn't a bad thing, but we're having come from the ad industry, we were ingrained to help create a need that people didn't know they had.

[00:16:58] LuRae: So they spend their money. And once you get out of that and realize we don't need everything that we're told through societal programming that we need, and we'd be much happier with less than with more, and that illusion of more is better, you know, that's not always true. So what would you say? Well, I guess we've touched on some of the obstacles.

[00:17:28] LuRae: Are there any other obstacles that. You've faced that you've found ways to overcome that have helped you be successful.

[00:17:39] Casey: some obstacles that I've overcome that helped me be successful.I guess the biggest obstacle being not having a boss and having to get the works myself. I mean, that was the biggest obstacle.

[00:17:56] Casey: How I overcame that is I got a couple of mentors. So when I made the decision to, like, start working for myself, I was like, all right, if I'm going to do this. I'm gonna do this intelligently. I'm not just gonna go willy nilly, I guess, and then see what happens. I'm going to get a couple of mentors who have done this successfully and see what they have done.

[00:18:18] Casey: So that way I can be more successful. So I have a couple of mentors, Alan louder. He owns click consulting in Orange County. They're one of the biggest, Biggest software development companies in Orange County, and I'm good buddies with him. So I hit him up as soon as I made this decision. I was like, Hey, I'm thinking about doing this.

[00:18:34] Casey: What should I do? What should I look out for? He gave me a lot of helpful tips in terms of like taxes, lawyers, people to talk to networking events. So get a mentor like that, that I feel like. Helped eliminate any other obstacles I would have otherwise ran into just because I had mentors that gave me helpful advice.

[00:18:55] LuRae: yeah, that's so smart. So smart. And I know, yeah, because we can feel like we're an island to ourselves, like, especially like in a home office or in, I mean, a lot of people are working remote now. So that, I mean, this applies to anybody, you know, that, that is working remotely. But I think, you know, The expertise of people who've gone before us is always beneficial to lean into and just smart to do.

[00:19:23] LuRae: So what ways would you say you've expanded and grown now that you've stepped out in this role and the way you're working currently?

[00:19:33] Casey: I feel like I've expanded in the sense that I am doing more outreach in terms of, Like writing blogs, doing podcasts, like I, I relaunched my podcast. So that way I continue to a network some more and be, it helps reinforce that routine of like connecting with people, other people in my industry, as well as starting like a YouTube channel.

[00:19:58] Casey: So I have talk product, the podcast, and I've started a YouTube channel, which has a whopping two videos on it so far. So it's like, just, I've just now started on it. Cool. So I'm trying to do more outreach. I also plan on doing like other tips on YouTube in terms of like, if you're curious about product development or web design or product design, I want to share some of the things that I've learned in the last, like working in that field in the last 15 years on YouTube, see where that goes, mostly for fun.

[00:20:29] Casey: You know,so I feel like in that sense, I've grown,just socially, you know, now that I'm not, you know, under the umbrella of a corporation and a boss and having to work with their stuff, I get to work on things that I'm passionate about and I think is fun. So

[00:20:46] LuRae: yeah, so good. So good. Yeah.

[00:20:48] LuRae: We'll connect on some of that other stuff. Cause yeah, that there's so much opportunity and people looking for. Someone like you who has the knowledge and experience and has done it, and you know, all you need to be is 10 percent further than someone else. And, you know, people will, you know, pay you for your expertise and to learn how you do what you do or how you got where you are to be able to be independent.

[00:21:13] LuRae: I mean, there's so many people that, you know, dream of being in positions like, like you and I are like independently doing our own thing and not relying on someone outside. side of us other than doing good work and showing up each day and, you know, I agree with you working with people that you like to work with and I've refunded deposits at the point that I started down a path with someone I'm like, Oh no, not going down this.

[00:21:40] LuRae: Here you go. Certified male. Here's your check back. Because, you know, working in an environment with people that we like to work with where we're respected, you know, appreciated and. And get to do what we'd like to do is utopia in the work world.

[00:22:00] Casey: Yeah, and you said something that I liked before, too, that like, saying no a lot is actually incredibly intelligent thing to do.

[00:22:07] Casey: Because you think the other way would be more intelligent, like working on working for yourself. You think you should be saying yes more to projects. But really, it's kind of. You could get trapped into work that they may not pay you. you may be using more time than what is valuable to you.

[00:22:25] Casey: Right. Like I've said no to a bunch of projects that I knew that like, okay, they're, they want the world, but then their budget is either non existent or it's like really small and it's like, I can't. Justify that many hours for what it is you want, what it is you want to build. So I've had to say no to a lot of leads and maybe say yes to only like a handful, really, you know, really my new, selection of people and in a way that's empowering.

[00:22:54] Casey: And it's, it helps ensure that you're doing the work that you want to do and also get paid. so you got to learn to just say no. And it sounds weird, but it's so important.

[00:23:07] LuRae: Absolutely. And it's, you know, it's a reflection of self value, self worth and creating a win situation. I mean, there'll be someone else out there who's maybe sharpening their teeth and hasn't.

[00:23:17] LuRae: That doesn't have the experience that you have, who would be willing to do the work just to, so they get some experience that people will work for free if they're trying to get their portfolio established, but you or I are not in that place. So we fortunately can command what we feel we're worth and either people will pay it if they won't, then we go the other direction, you know, for sure.

[00:23:40] Casey: No, that's like the best way to do the work that you want to do. it's either a hell yes or a no. Right.

[00:23:48] LuRae: Absolutely. Absolutely. So what advice would you give for people? We're going to, I'll make sure that everything is linked in the show notes below to get in touch with you because I think there are people who may be listening to this or like, Ooh, I could use someone with his background to help me with this.

[00:24:03] LuRae: thing that I need to get done. so we'll make sure I'll make sure that is done. What advice would you have for people who are on the fence, unsure and waiting to see what happens but have a nudge to do something on their own?

[00:24:17] Casey: I can't remember if this is a Stephen King quote or not, but it's something that I like to live by.

[00:24:22] Casey: And it's a really simple saying, it's write what you know. Like if you're thinking about branching out on your own and doing Like running a business, if you've been doing, if you've been doing, say, HR your entire life, and now you want to run a pizza shop, no pizza shop experience, the likelihood of failure is much higher than say, if you were to do something HR related.

[00:24:44] Casey: So I think if you're going to branch out, be very self aware on what you know, and pursue that. Because then you have a higher likelihood of being successful. and the other advice I would give is keep networking, be friendly, you know, make friends in your field because at the end of the day, they will most likely become customers.

[00:25:06] Casey: Right. So.

[00:25:08] LuRae: That's wise advice. And I would say, I think LinkedIn is a goldmine also, and even networking there. You, I've had people who have reached out that have been on the podcast because they've seen once they, you know, once, once people see what we're doing, then there are those who want to be part of it.

[00:25:27] LuRae: So that's very wise advice. Well, Casey, thank you so much for coming on and sharing your wisdom. And I'm sure we inspired at least a few people today. So thank you for having me. Yeah, absolutely. And that's a wrap on another episode of, and then I did this celebrating the lives of those who walked away from the beaten path to pursue work and a life that nourishes their soul.

[00:25:53] LuRae: If you're feeling inspired and ready to explore your own path to freedom, check out, you can be free. life where you'll find resources and support to help you break free. And live life on your own terms. See you next time.