She Got Laid Off Twice—Here's How She Built a New Life

Melissa [00:00:00] I decided to bet on myself, and I remember saying to my husband, I don't want to go through another layoff. I don't want another CEO deciding my fate. I don't want to be another line item on a budget spreadsheet, and when the company decides they no longer need me, there it is, I lose my job."

LuRae Welcome to And Then I Did This. Prepare to be inspired as we celebrate the unique journeys of individuals who've had the courage to break free and live life on their own terms. Their lives prove that you truly can be free to live your best and most authentic life.

Melissa Let's get to it

LuRae Welcome to the show.

LuRae Today, I have a special guest. Melissa Grabiner spent over 20 years in corporate and global HR and talent leadership roles across Fortune 500 companies before becoming an entrepreneur, job search coach, business advisor, two-time LinkedIn Top Voice, and a yoga instructor. With her

[00:01:00] extensive experience, she now guides and helps professionals stand out in a competitive job market by transforming their resumes, strengthening their personal brand, LinkedIn profile, and developing customized job search strategies.

LuRae And goodness, do we need that help now more than ever. Melissa, welcome to the show.

Melissa Thank you for having me. It's lovely to be here.

LuRae Share a little around your journey and how you got where you are currently, because I think it's such an interesting story.

Melissa Yeah, absolutely. So born and raised in Chicago.

Melissa married 26 years, have a 21-year-old and a 23-year-old son, the loves of my life. so I just had to mention that. Yeah, so I've spent my entire career in HR, but more predominantly talent acquisition. I worked at a company called Takeda Pharmaceuticals, global Fortune 500 company, and I was the global talent acquisition director for the company's largest business unit.

Melissa They moved my position and really my entire department to Boston, and so they offered me a full relo. And [00:02:00] at the time, my sons were in high school, and I wasn't in a position to move, so I ended up, leaving the company. And then I worked another job doing talent acquisition as well, and after 18 months at that role, I got laid off.

Melissa So I experienced two layoffs in a very short period of time. I always wanted to be an entrepreneur, and I always had kind of thoughts and visions of what that would look like in my mind, but I was always scared to take the plunge because, you know, again, I was raising two- two sons, and there was something that was a little bit more stable about corporate America, only later to find out that there is no such thing as stability anymore anywhere, unfortunately.

Melissa But I decided to bet on myself, and I remember saying to my husband, I don't want to go through another layoff. I don't want another CEO deciding my fate. I don't want to be another line item on a budget spreadsheet, and when the company decides they no longer need me, there- there it is, I lose my job."

Melissa And so, on the side, when I was always in corporate America, I would help with, you know, [00:03:00] friends and family and- and just some people that would reach out to me. I'd help them with their resumes and their LinkedIn profiles. And I remember saying to my husband, "I think I might have something here. Like, I- I'm gonna take a chance on myself and s- and start a business."

Melissa to date, I've helped over 1,000 job seekers, and it's been- The best decision I made. So not only am I own boss and I pick my own hours and I have my own schedule, I don't have to ask for permission to take time off. If I wanna go to the gym at 2:00 PM on a Tuesday, I can. So there, there are of course, many advantages to working for myself.

Melissa But the thing I love the most is being able to help so many people in such what I believe is important work. You know, when I work with clients and I revamp their resumes and optimize their LinkedIn page, and then they call me and say, "Melissa, I just got a job offer." And there's nothing better to me than seeing the di- direct results of my work when my clients are succeeding by finding new roles.

Melissa it's been, an incredibly rewarding, and the best thing I did was take a chance on myself. [00:04:00] And I felt like, you know what? if I don't try, I'm never gonna know, and I feel life is too short and precious to live with regrets. And the worst that could happen if it doesn't work out is I'll try to find another job at corporate.

Melissa But when I started my business, it took off right away, and I think a lot of it had to do with my presence on LinkedIn. I would post a lot about job search tips and tools and motivation. The vast majority of my clients are referrals, which is great. I do have obviously a lot of inbound people that come to me too, but I've never advertised my...

Melissa Like, I've never spent a dime on advertising my business. maybe once every three months I actually post about my business. A lot of it, again, my business are referrals and inbound. But taking a chance on myself has been the best decision I made. And I think also it sends a really good message to my sons where

Melissa If you wanna go after something, go after it, right? you're never too old. It's never too late. the year I turned 50, I became a certified yoga instructor after [00:05:00] practicing yoga for 25 years. And I remember the morning of my 50th birthday, I said to my husband, I said, "I'm doing it. No more excuses."

Melissa And that day, I signed up for teacher training, and I was the oldest person in my teacher training class. And, you know, again, at the age of 50, I had these two new businesses I started. I became a certified yoga instructor. I've since started a third business with my husband. And I always say to my husband that I'm never gonna go back.

Melissa I'm never gonna go back to corporate America. being my own boss has been incredibly rewarding, and the work I'm doing has been more fun than I ever could have imagined. So I feel blessed every single day.

LuRae Yeah. I mean, it's so true. I mean, this is a magical... We talked a bit before we started recording.

LuRae This is a magical time because we're meeting for the first time, and I've referred so many people to you. I mean, we've commented and encouraged one another, you know, online through LinkedIn, and so this is like a magical opportunity to meet and actually help spread the word of what you're doing because I believe so much in [00:06:00] what you're doing.

LuRae it reminds me of when I left my role in New York. I remember I had a friend who I, was walking through, kind of... I remember I was walking around by Columbus Circle, and I was going through my own internal, ooh, you know, I left. I'm not sure. What... And I knew I didn't, I couldn't do what I was doing anymore.

LuRae I just couldn't. I was... I'd asked myself, "When's my sentence gonna be up?" walking from the restroom to my off- back to my office one, one day. I'm like, "That's what prisoners think when they're, you know, 'When's my time gonna be up?'" And so he had said to me, "Oh, well, you can always go back and you can get another job."

LuRae And I said, "Don't even give that to me as an option." I don't even wanna hear that because that i- that door is shut. Like, I... So I was that committed. It didn't, you know, so I mean, I think, you know, in my case, I was so burned out at the point I had been out on, literally out on short-term disability, had r- wrist surgery 'cause I'd been taking antibiotics for a staph infection, and that turned into tendon tears.

LuRae And like the [00:07:00] universe was just stopping me full-stop. So I literally took eight months, burned through a bunch of re- you know, retirement money, and found myself before I left New York and went back to the West Coast. So, so it's... Everything you're saying is so powerful to listen to ourselves and not just, oh, I can hang in there a little bit longer.

LuRae Because, like you said, I think, and you see it every day with the work you do, people are one, email away or one- One phone call away, one meeting away from being told, "Yeah, you can relocate to Boston," or, "Your role is no longer..." Or whatever the situation is, so.

Melissa Yes. And as a matter of fact, I would say about 90% of my clients contact me in a complete panic.

Melissa They get laid off, they had no idea it was coming, they don't know what to do, their head is spinning, they have a very outdated resume, their LinkedIn profile is bare, and they say, "Melissa, what do I do? [00:08:00] I'm scared. I wasn't expecting this layoff. I don't know where to start." And a lot of these people... I'll just give you a quick example.

Melissa One of my clients about two weeks ago was a 22-year veteran from Microsoft. He was a VP at Microsoft, and his entire department got slashed And he contacted me, and I could feel the panic in his voice. I said, "Listen, I got you covered. We're gonna get through this together." And, you know, I'm happy to say he's had some interviews since.

Melissa But, you know, this is someone that was at a company like Microsoft. And when your whole division gets wiped out, it doesn't matter how much of a money driver you are or what a top performer you are. it's just the truth. You know, my father worked at his company for 30 years, and back then, that's what people did.

Melissa They, they worked. People got pensions, and there was almost, like, this agreement between the employer and the employer that we're gonna give you lifelong employment. I worked at my prior company, like I said earlier, for 18 years, and that's a long time by today's standards. but [00:09:00] I truly believe that the world of work has completely changed.

Melissa I don't know if it's ever gonna go back. There are so many people I know that have started their own businesses after being downsized from corporate America, because there is no such thing as job security anymore. and I certainly don't say this to sound negative, but I see this every day with my clients.

Melissa I see it on LinkedIn posts that I read. The only person we should ever be loyal to is ourselves.

LuRae Absolutely. And I think even when people are working with you, they can still also be working on something as a side income. 'Cause I, you know, encourage, obviously, with, you know, you can be free, dot life, like, you know, don't...

LuRae Exactly what you're saying. Have, have multiple options. If we put all of our eggs in one basket, that is so risky in the world we're currently in. With AI also coming into the mix and changing how people are doing work, w- what they're doing. I mean, e- [00:10:00] everything from, as I mentioned, I work both in the cybersecurity space and the ad industry, and it's like watching and participating in both of those industries, seeing h- them, them navigate what does this mean?

LuRae What does this mean for how we do our business and how we operate? And it's rippling out to all the employees. you know, as, as we know, and people, we ne- we never know. So better to err on the side of be proactive and- And then don't hesitate to reach out to you, obviously, with, you know, help in the market because you've been on the hiring side.

LuRae You know what companies are looking for. So talk a little bit about your, kind of your experience with that and kind of what you, how you help people.

Melissa Sure. So i- regarding the re- my recruiting experience, I've, you know, I've been in talent acquisition for the better part of 20 years, and I have hired thousands of people across virtually every industry, job function, and job level.

Melissa So I understand very well what goes on the [00:11:00] hiring side, but I also have a good view of what happens on the candidate side. So it's almost like that mix of experience. And part of the reason why I wanted to branch out on my own and be a job search coach was because I feel that I have intimate knowledge of how applicant tracking systems work and how companies search for candidates and I've done

Melissa I've built up entire,TA departments from inception, and so I understand how w- like just departments run and the systems and the processes and the technology. And so I wanted to transfer that knowledge from the other side of, okay, let's help job seekers. Instead of being a corporate recruiter and hiring for the company, let me help job seekers and help them find jobs.

Melissa So, you know, one of the most common questions I get asked on LinkedIn is, "Can you help me find a job?" And, you know, what I say is, "I'm not like a corporate h- like I'm not a headhunter." W- but do I have a lot of connections on LinkedIn a- from people at different companies? Absolutely. Do I help everyone? I- if [00:12:00] every person that reaches out to me on LinkedIn, I try to help if I can.

Melissa I probably receive between 150 and 200 messages a day on LinkedIn. I answer every one. I don't outsource my inbox. I don't want to do that. would it free up a ton of my time? Yes, it would, but I want it to be able to control the messaging that goes out, and I just feel if people have, if people are kind enough and take the time to reach out to me, then I feel that they deserve a response.

Melissa But a lot of people believe that I'm like a headhunter, and so what I always say to those people is, "I'm not a headhunter, but if you send your resume to me, if I hear of something, absolutely I will get back in touch with you." And sometimes that happens where I'll see a posting on LinkedIn or someone will message me and say, "Hey, Melissa, I'm hiring for this position.

Melissa Do you know anyone?" And then I search and I say, "Actually, yeah, this person connected with me about a month ago. They might be a good fit." So anything I can do on my end, and I don't get paid for this. Like it's not about the money. For me it's like if I could help two strangers connect [00:13:00] with each other to, so one can get a job and one can fill their position, then of course I'm going to do anything I can to help.

LuRae And that will ripple back to you in other ways that,

Melissa you know?

LuRae Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, because I think that the, you know, the fear people have when they are not sure what to do, or they're maybe not experts at how to optimize their profile or the things that they should be doing to attract, you know, someone to find them.

LuRae I know one of the things that, and we both comment, and I'll comment, as things that you post out there, is how companies are currently treating people. And I don't even know if there's something we can say around that to encourage people to... 'cause I wonder how much also, w- and then I'll, you can an- g- share your perspective, how much AI is being used for jobs [00:14:00] as people submit.

LuRae To your point, you want the personal touch. I'm the same way. Like, I don't outsource anything. I write everything myself. I respond to everything myself, and, but what are your thoughts around what's happening with the black hole of ghosting people and just the bad practices that are going on out there?

Melissa I think you hit the nail on the head when you said bad practices.

Melissa I have never seen anything like this in my entire life of what's happening in today's job market. I had a client last night around 10:30 message me, went through six interviews at a company. He was a creative director, went through six interviews, created a presentation that he actually, he gave it in front of the board of directors of the company.

Melissa he gave a presentation from a presentation he created. six interviews. They were each an hour length, and then the, the C-suite, of course, he had to present it. still hasn't heard back. He's followed up multiple times. This is a very high-level individual, but this is one of many types of similar stories that not only do I hear from my [00:15:00] clients, but I see posts multiple times a day on LinkedIn.

Melissa I think the problem is that recruiters are bombarded with applicants. You know, it is not uncommon for a company to post a job, and within one hour they'll get 500 resumes. So what's happening is the recruiters are overwhelmed because they can't manage the volume. companies are taking longer and longer to make decisions because a lot of them are paralyzed in making the wrong hiring decision.

Melissa So what happens is they put candidates through multiple interviews that take weeks, if not months, to complete. The ghosting has reached almost alarming levels. It is horrible what's going on. I strongly and truly believe- That how a company treats you as a candidate is a reflection of the culture and how they're going to treat you as an employee.

Melissa If someone takes the time to interview, I don't care if it's a 15-minute call with a recruiter, I don't care if it's a six-hour, you know, give a presentation to the board, these people deserve closure. [00:16:00] Send a letter through your applicant tracking system. You literally can click a button and you can send a letter to close the loop.

Melissa I think, I- if I had to guess what's going on, I think recruiters for the most part are completely bombarded. They're spinning 10 plates in the air at once, and they're, a lot of them are saying, and I don't want to speak for recruiters, but this is just what I'm thinking, they have so much on their plates that they're like, "I need to hire people.

Melissa I don't necessarily, am not going to worry about closing the loop with people." but again, I always go back to this, and I will take this to my grave, and this is what I said to my client last night: "If this is how they treated you as a candidate, what does that say about the culture of the company, and what does that say about how they might treat you as an employee?"

Melissa And I really strongly to bel- believe that to be true. I think AI is also playing a big part, and I think there's advantages to AI in recruiting, but I think there's disadvantages. Something that is happening more and more are companies are using AI to interview candidates, which I'm [00:17:00] incredibly against.

Melissa I believe an interview should be a two-way conversation between two human beings where the candidate has the ability to ask questions of the recruiter, because interviewing's a two-way street. And as I always tell my clients, they're interviewing the company as much as the company's interviewing them.

Melissa But when you are interviewing with an AI bot, you don't have an opportunity to ask questions. AI is making those decisions whether they move you forward in the process. I'll say this really quickly. At my prior job when I was at Takeda Pharmaceuticals, my team and I had a team of 12 direct reports. We hired 3,000 people a year, which is incredibly high volume.

Melissa I refused to do AI interviews. Could we have done that and would it have been much more streamlined? Would had, have freed a lot of time for my recruiters? Yes. However, I s- very firmly said, "We need these people to have a conversation with us and not speak to an AI bot," and I will never change my mind on that.[00:18:00]

Melissa I think job seekers deserve better. This is probably the hardest time to be a job seeker because you have the competition. You have, the j- it, it's almost like the Hunger Games out there. So if someone's not getting ghosted, they're going through 10 interviews or they're mul- they're competing with maybe five other top candidates.

Melissa Terrible what's going on. it's, my heart goes out to everybody looking for a new opportunity. I've never seen anything like it.

LuRae Yeah. It's m- it's making me think of I w- a, a girlf- a friend of mine who's go- in the master's program at USC, and wound up be- with one of those, like, recorded interviews, so it's ac- actually taking me through the...

LuRae As you're sharing that, it's taking me to her, and she's, like, wicked smart. I mean, w- was beyond the dean's list, like president's list intelligence, and yeah. And just, it's been just a journey. And, you know, to think of someone like that who's also... and this was for an internship,and just going through so many hoops, a Fortune 500 [00:19:00] company.

LuRae but yeah. it's mi- it's mind-blowing.

Melissa My, my heart honestly just breaks for job seekers right now. I've n- you know, it, I've been a recruiter for 20 years, and I've never seen anything like this. and not to sound negative, but I don't see it getting any better. I think it's only gonna get worse, because as more and more companies are adapting AI, in turn, this means a lot of these companies are laying off their staff.

Melissa So what's happening is it's saturating the job market with more competition, where it's not uncommon for a company to post a job, and honestly, in an hour they might get hundreds and hundreds of resumes. And it's like, if you don't know somebody at the company, or you don't, if you're not getting yourself in front of the, a recruiter or who you think the hiring manager might be, your resume is put in an applicant tracking system with hundreds and hundreds.

Melissa And so one of the questions a lot of people ask me on LinkedIn is, "I don't understand why I keep getting rejected. I'm a perfect fit to the job description. I could do this role in my sleep." and what I say to these people is, "It has nothing to do with you and a reflection of your experience [00:20:00] and background.

Melissa You're competing against hundreds if not thousands of other people for the same role. So unless you can get yourself in front of a decision-maker, your resume is gonna remain in that applicant tracking system." And I will, and one, one thing too I think is important that I say is that 90% of my clients land new jobs through networking Too many job seekers, this is what the biggest miss is, and I s- I hear this from a lot of my clients.

Melissa the biggest issue I think with a lot of job seekers right now is they're relying on job boards only. They'll go on LinkedIn, and every hour they'll refresh their page. They'll get the new listings that come up, and all they do is do mass applying. The people that are landing jobs in this market are networking.

Melissa Like I said, nine out of 10 of my clients that land new jobs, it's through their networking.

LuRae Yes, absolutely. And I think,looking at taking the time to even share your perspective on LinkedIn, which I know, you [00:21:00] know, something you're definitely w- you and I are both really active with doing that, and you connect with other people.

LuRae And I mean, there are times, obviously as I'm ... Yeah, I have another person to make an introduction to you because as people are going through the journey of just work and making money and all of that, it's, it- putting yourself out there and having a presence and having an opinion, having a thought be- you know, about whatever it is, whatever industry you're in, and looking is I'll go in and look and say, "Okay, who are the first-level connections I have?"

LuRae If, even if I'm looking for, because I produce, as I mentioned, podcasts for a couple other clients, and I will go and look at my LinkedIn and see who do I know that's a first-level connection that I can just reach out to and invite them on the show. and just, but taking the time, and I know you and I both will see this and say this, don't just reach out to people when you need something.

LuRae Like re- [00:22:00] stay in contact with people to stay in contact and b- and engage with people because people get... we build trust over time by showing up and being who we are. We may not know until months or years later that someone... I know of a, a colleague who sh- she coaches CEOs and,and founders, and she's had people that have...

LuRae I was reading some of her content last night on Instagram, and people who've been following her content for, like, six years have contacted, you know, just said, "Hey, thank you," because, you know, and even in your case, someone may be gainfully employed right now. But around the corner, they don't realize something's coming down the pike.

LuRae So- To be engaged, be, you know, share your thoughts. And I know you have something to say about that, too, around being active and networking and sharing your thoughts.

Melissa Yes. Being... I will say this. I think being [00:23:00] active on LinkedIn can be all the difference in the world. here's something I'm gonna share with you that a lot of people don't realize about LinkedIn, and this is what I work with all my clients on.

Melissa Your headline on LinkedIn, which is directly under your name, okay, so you're given 220 characters. 35% of the beginning of your headline every time you comment on a LinkedIn post, your head- 35% follows you. So here's an example. On my headline at the very beginning, it says, "Top-rated resume writer. I help job seekers land interviews."

Melissa Every time I engage on the platform, people see that. So it's free advertisement for my business. Maybe once or twice every six months, I'll actually post about my business. Outside of referrals, my, most of my business are people that say, "Hey, Melissa, I saw your comment on post. I noticed you're a resume writer.

Melissa Can you help me?" I'm not commenting I'm a resume writer. Once in a while I do if, it, the comment warrants me to say that. But [00:24:00] because the beginning of your headline goes with you, every time you're engaging on that platform, you're advertising yourself. So what I say to all my clients is, why, 'cause one of the things I do is I create their headlines.

Melissa I'll say, "Okay, what are the roles you're targeting?" W- I think through, okay, what are those key words? And I create the headlines for them, and then I say, "Okay, we have to remember that a third of the beginning is the most critical part." And then I show them, once they put it on their profile, I show them and I say, "Hey, look at this comment you did.

Melissa Look what's under your name." and the more active you are on LinkedIn, the more the algorithm is going to warm up to you that you're active. 'Cause if there's one thing LinkedIn likes, it's when people are on LinkedIn One thing else I'll share with you that most people don't know about, which is really important for job seekers, one of the ways LinkedIn makes their money...

Melissa are you familiar with LinkedIn Recruiter licenses?

LuRae I, I have not used it, but I'm aware of it, but not to the degree you know it. Yes.

Melissa So one of the ways LinkedIn [00:25:00] makes their money is they sell to companies what's called LinkedIn Recruiter licenses, and I've had a license for 20 years, so I very much understand how they work.

Melissa Basically, recruiters are allowed to search the platform on the back end for candidates for their jobs. The more keyword optimized your profile is, there's a stronger chance you're going to be found in a search. The way LinkedIn orders the people, so let's say I do a search and 100 profiles appear. The way the order is, if you have open to work signified on your profile, either the green banner or behind the scenes to recruiters, those people are going to come on top.

Melissa Plus, it's how active you are. If you're active on LinkedIn and I contact you, there's a higher chance you're going to see my message. Because you're active on LinkedIn, there's a higher chance you're going to respond to me. All the people that created a LinkedIn account and never went back on the platform, they're going to be lower in the order because if I contact those people, they're

[00:26:00] probably not going to see my message.

Melissa So one of the reasons why it's important to be visible on LinkedIn is it's not only because every time you comment, your headline follows you at the beginning of it, but when recruiters are using their licenses, you're going to come up higher in the search. The other thing I want to mention, too, is that a lot of companies right now are not posting their jobs.

Melissa So if you ever heard the phrase the hidden job market, it is absolutely a thing. A lot of companies aren't posting their jobs for two reasons. The first is because of AI. What a lot of job seekers are doing is they're taking their resume, they're taking a job description, they're pushing it through AI, and then AI is recreating their resume to be a mirror image of the job description.

Melissa so many of these resumes are looking exactly the same, and these recruiters are going, "What is the source of truth? How do 20 people that just applied have virtually the same resume?" The other reason why a lot of companies aren't posting their jobs is because the recruiters cannot [00:27:00] manage the volume of applicants.

Melissa So what's happening instead is recruiters are using their licenses on LinkedIn to find people for their jobs. And to prove my point, just to mention this really quickly, one of my other businesses is I do talent acquisition consulting. Right now, I have two clients. They don't post their jobs. They hired me to find people for their jobs, and I use my LinkedIn license to do that.

Melissa So what I always say to my clients is, listen, like I get LinkedIn is not everyone's thing. I get a lot of people are like, "I hate the platform, and it's cringey, and..." But what I say to them is this: spend 30 minutes a day engaging on LinkedIn. follow companies you're interested in. Connect with recruiters at those companies.

Melissa Connect with people in a similar role at those companies. Connect with people who could be a hiring manager. So if you're looking for like a supply chain manager job, connect with directors of supply chain, VPs of supply [00:28:00] chain. Comment on people's posts, because they're gonna become higher in the order in a LinkedIn search, and again, people are gonna see their headline every time they engage.

Melissa So being active on LinkedIn, in my opinion, when you're a job seeker, has never been more critical.

LuRae Absolutely. I mean, it's making me... I mean, it's making me smile a bit because I've had some recruiters like re- you know, reach out to me because they're, because it, this, this algorithm does read what you say, and I do have in my, you know, the headline, because I, m- being a marketer, it's, my brain is always exactly what you just said, that banner.

LuRae And what you say beneath your name, that's your headline. that's like, you know, like Nike, "Go," you know, "Just do it." It's, I convert, I grow revenue. I do whatever it is that the pers- And you guide people with that,with your expertise. But it's like I know that's how recruiters are finding me, and then I will always respond to them and say, you know, thank you for [00:29:00] reaching out.

Melissa However, I'm helping people break free from their nine to five." And so, you know, so they move on. but it is, it is so effective at... and I'm active. And so even though it's been over 10 years since I've been an employee, th- it doesn't, you know, it's using the algorithm. It's l- it's looking for people who have the experience and then matchmaking them to save them time also, Never been more important, yeah. Using LinkedIn in a job search is so important. and what, and again, you know, what I say to my clients is, 'cause I have so many of them say to me like, "I don't wanna be on LinkedIn," and blah, blah, blah. And I say, "I get it. 30 minutes a day. Start." Even if you don't want to post, don't post.

Melissa Just start commenting on people's posts, because visibility in this job market is what is getting people jobs. It's the visibility and it's the networking. Those are the two keys, without question, of landing jobs in this competitive job market.

LuRae Yeah, and even [00:30:00] doing it before you lose your job. I mean, I know, you know, a lot, like, as you said, like a lot of people will be like, "Oh, you know, I'm going to be..."

LuRae I mean, I s- I was with the phone company for 16 years, so I relate completely with your 18 years with, you know, the company you were with. And it's like, I wasn't active, I wasn't active on LinkedIn while, you know, it's like, "Oh, I've got a job. The paycheck's coming in." It's don't wait. Like, don't wait.

LuRae Be active even while you're an employee, because you may... Just w- I'm strategically grew my, you know, in my career by strategically moving to different opportunities, which again, y- you can be a great resource for that also as someone as they may, they may still even be in a role and want some guidance to, you know, how do I leverage myself to get in front of this other better opportunity with a company that I'm dreaming to work for?

LuRae Yeah.

Melissa 100%. I'd say about 10% of my clients are currently working. 90% of my clients are not working. but [00:31:00] the reason my clients that are currently employed work with me is because they want to start, they're kind of starting to think about that next opportunity, and they all say the same thing to me. They all say, "I know the job market is tough."

Melissa and I don't sugarcoat things with my clients. I'm very honest with them, and I say to them, "You are right." This is an incredibly difficult job market we're in.

LuRae So when you look back at the journey you've been on, because I think, I mean, you as, as I think I said to you before we started recording, you were destined to do what you're doing because you were so successful doing, you know, the corporate side, and then now coming entrepreneur side.

LuRae You've got the full view of the, the whole picture, and what advice would you give for people who are out there either trying to figure it out, questioning whether maybe should I start my own thing or do I pursue a job still? And in that case, I would tell them, "Get in touch with Melissa." but what, what advice do you have for people, because you've walked this walk?

Melissa Yeah. No, I [00:32:00] appreciate you asking. You know, I'm a big believer in we have this one life to live, and life is short and precious. If you have the desire to start something on your own and it doesn't work, at least you know you tried, right? So, like, when I embarked on ... Right now I d- I have three small businesses, but when I embarked on my first one after I left corporate, in the back of my mind, I was, first of all, I was determined to make it work, 'cause I said, "I'm not going back to corporate America."

Melissa I, my heart and soul and nervous system, like I simply cannot do it. So I was destined to make my business work. but I always knew in the back of my mind that if it doesn't work out, I can always try to go back to corporate, but I don't wanna live with regrets, and I don't wanna be 70 years old saying to my husband, "I really wish I would've taken the plunge, and I really wish I would've bet on myself."

Melissa Living with regrets, life is way too short. And, again, if you try something and you don't succeed, at least you know you tried. I think it's better, I don't know the exact [00:33:00] expression or phrase, but I, it's along the lines of it's better to try and fail than never to try at all. and listen, like, there are pros and cons to everything, right?

Melissa Like, there are drawbacks to being on my own. Like, I think the benefits outweigh the drawbacks, but, there are, you know, like my husband and I are on COBRA and we don't have health insurance, and that's not cheap. You know, there's pieces of being self-employed that aren't great, but if I list the pros and the cons, the pros of being self-employed and working for myself significantly far outweigh the cons.

Melissa And again, if it doesn't work out, at least you know you tried, and this way you won't look back on your life and wonder, "What if?"

LuRae Yeah, absolutely. I mean, it's making me think of one of, one of the graphics, and I think it's a M- Mark Twain quote that said, you know, most people, many people die at 27.

LuRae We just don't bury them until they're 70. [00:34:00] And it's because, you know, people will feel, "Oh, I..." or not have belief in themself or not sure what steps to take. So I think it's never been e- it's never been easier to step out, I think, because of all the support there is with, whether it's Canva or it's, you know, AI support to...

LuRae You can have a

LuRae good concept, or you can want a concept. Like, tell it to a- tell it to act as this, this expertise, and then cr- help me with ideas for the... I mean, I have the AI, the Corporate Exit AI Prompt Guide, where you can s- literally just put in what you're interested in, and it will help you come up with even how to generate your first $1,000, to help you get on that path.

LuRae So I think there's never been a better time. It's probably n- never been easier. It's also not a turnkey thing. Like you said, both you and I were committed when we'd made that decision. Like, "I'm not going [00:35:00] back." Like, "I'm going to find a way to make this work because I just can't and don't want to do what I was doing anymore."

Melissa Definitely. You know, and I worked in corporate America for over 20 years, so I know what it's like to have a corporate job. but, after our talk today, I'm going to the gym, right? I can do that because I work for myself. there's so many benefits of being self-employed. being my own boss is empowering, and it also pushes me to work harder because I also am the one who generates business for my business.

Melissa Like, I don't have someone in sales that is generating business. It's all me. I wear all the hats. But it motivates me because I know in my heart I cannot imagine going back to corporate. I love working for myself. It is super fun. It's super rewarding. I've had, again, a, the flavor and the deep experience of corporate, and then I compare it to my path working for myself.

Melissa [00:36:00] No comparison.

LuRae I mean, that could actually be my gratitude list first thing in the morning is like I think, I'm not getting in a car or on a subway to commute anywhere. I'm not having to answer to anyone else. I'm not, of course I'm, keeping clients apprised of what I'm doing and that kind of thing, but it's a whole different energy.

LuRae And I'll... I'm sure you can relate to this too, and then I'll get your f- final closing thoughts. But giving ourself permission to not be in the rigid structure. I remember going to the beach the first Monday that I went at 9:00 in the morning and went to, 'cause I'm 10 minutes from the beach in Southern California, and it was like this inertia of, fighting that internal, you know.

LuRae It was s- I don't do that every, every Monday or every week, but having the freedom to be able to do that and then deprogramming ourselves once we get that freedom is, that's a process in itself too,

Melissa No, for sure. And here's the other thing too. You know, I think about this often, is that do [00:37:00] I want a company to lay me off again or do I wanna...

Melissa I don't wanna put my hands in the s- in a CEO who doesn't even know me. You know? Like, both times I got laid off, they were at mammoth, very large companies. The CEOs didn't know me. I worked my ass off for my first company for 18 years. I was a top performer. I was constantly getting promoted.

Melissa I did very well there. At the end of the day, my entire division, they didn't want in Chicago anymore, and I was affected by that. And The CEO decided that they didn't want Chicago presence. I had no say, I had no control, and I said, "You know what? This is ridiculous." Like, why am I putting my career in the hands of a man who's m- making probably 20 million a year?

Melissa He doesn't care about me. He doesn't care about his employees. He... So anyways, best decision I made was going out on my own. Y-

LuRae yeah, absolutely. Yeah, I absolutely hear you. So if people wanna

[00:38:00] get in touch with you, I mean, obviously, your n- we've got your name here m- so people can find you on LinkedIn, and then any other recommendations you make for people to reach out to you?

Melissa Yeah. Thank you for asking. So my website is my name .net. It's melissagrabiner.net. on my LinkedIn page, I encourage people to follow me or connect with me. I love connecting and meeting new friends, so you know, feel free to send me a connection request. And, there's a link to my website on, my main page on LinkedIn as well, and, again, would love to meet and connect with anyone who'd like to meet and connect with me.

LuRae Yeah, that's awesome. Thank you so much for all the advice, the tips, the wisdom, and the encouragement. Like I say, you're a bright light on LinkedIn and-

Melissa Right back at you, my friend.

LuRae Yeah, so, definitely reach out and connect with Melissa, for sure. So thank you so much.

Melissa Thanks, everyone, for listening.

LuRae And that's a wrap on another episode of And Then I Did This,

[00:39:00] celebrating the lives of those who've walked away from the beaten path to pursue work and a life that nourishes their soul. If you're feeling inspired and ready to explore your own path to freedom, check out youcanbefree.life where you'll find resources and support to help you break free and live life on your own terms.

LuRae See you next time.