Why This 7-Figure Founder Works Just 2 Hours a Day with Justin Welsh

Guest It's a fair summary and you know there are two ways to do it. One is to get as much money as humanly possible and then burn out, right? Yeah. Well, the other thing you can do is build a business that grows slowly and sustainably over time that you enjoy running.

Intro You are listening to the seven Figure Leap podcast. We're here to leverage rich relationships and smart strategies to take your business to the next level. Here's your host, Dustin Reman.

Host What does it really take to build a seven figure solopreneur business? Uh, I'm very honored today. I have. Probably the world's leading expert on this topic.

Host And it's a topic that we talk about in different ways on this show with different people in different stages of this journey. But Justin Welsh is probably a familiar name to anyone listening to this. 'cause we have a lot of people on this same path of solo entrepreneurship, you know, the dream and of having a seven figure lifestyle business.

Host So [00:01:00] Justin, thanks so much for being here, for taking the time. I think we're going to shed some, uh, some reality, uh, for the listeners about what it really takes, what it's really like. Doing this the right way based on all of your experience. So thanks for being here, man.

Guest It's great to be here, Dustin, and thank you for the, uh, for the very kind introduction.

Host appreciate it. It's, it's great to be talking with you again. Awesome. Well, a theme that we talked a lot about over in our community is this idea of simplicity scales. You know, I think, uh, there's, there's a lot of that on, uh, on the internet. Uh, this is the sort of idealistic, uh, version of building a scalable business that doesn't overrun your life.

Host And I think we tend to. Fall into tactics when we talk about simplicity, right? And we'll definitely talk about business models and your funnel and things like that. But I think at the core, one of the reasons I resonate so much with your work. Is this idea that it's really about lifestyle first. So I'd love to just, uh, you know, wrap on that a little bit with you here.

Host Uh, maybe you can give some context to the listeners who maybe aren't as familiar with your story about why that's so important to you and how you view it when [00:02:00] you're, uh, working on your own business or working with other people who are aspiring to build a seven-figure solo business.

Guest Yeah, I mean, I think.

Guest I think first of all, the idea that simple scales and, and complexity often fails goes back to my kind of prior life. Uh, before being an online solopreneur, I was, um, you know, a VP of sales, eventually a Chief revenue officer. I helped grow a couple of, uh, really big healthcare companies, one in New York, one in la.

Guest And what I saw internally in both of those companies was that the more complex things got, uh. The worst things got, and that was especially true in my, in my second job, uh, in, in the, of those two, I was VP of sales, chief revenue officer at a company called Patient Pop in la And since it was really my first executive go around, I worked under the assumption that like.

Guest I needed more tools, that we needed more funnels, that things needed to be more complex. And what we found over time was like the old 80 20 [00:03:00] rule, right? Yeah. It's 20% of whatever we did really well impacted 80% of our results. And so we recognized that was understanding our customers very deeply, asking great discovery questions, mapping our solution to their pain points, so on and so forth.

Guest So that really started there. And when I came to build my own business as a solopreneur, uh, you would've thought that I would've taken that lesson and brought it over. And unfortunately, I didn't. I overcomplicated everything from the beginning, right? Because we, I, I make mistakes more than once generally.

Guest And, um, and, you know, I had webinars and I had complex funnels, and what I realized over time was that. In a creative entrepreneurship business, online content matters. Yes. And if you spend all of your time creating the best possible content, you can build a seven figure business without complex funnels, without complex workflows, without a team.

Guest Um. And to [00:04:00] me, that is where my business is now, is most of my time is spent creating the best content that I think that

Host I can create. Absolutely. And again, for, for somehow people don't know your story, you know, your, your current version, nearly 800,000 followers on LinkedIn. My favorite newsletter, the Saturday solopreneur.

Host Thanks man. You got, uh, uh, of, of series of different products that we'll kind of get into and compare and contrast. So now knowing what, you know, uh, if you were talking to, you know, Justin five, 10 years ago, um, through this theme of, of lifestyle first, like how would you advise yourself to structure the business model in a way that honors, um, what you actually want?

Host Because I think a lot of times we start to follow someone else's example. We get trapped in complexity because that's what we observe other people doing, and we don't stop. And I, I've been victim of this myself. To really ask, well, what do I want? What? Like, what is this business for ultimately, as it as it pertains to my life?

Host So I'd love to hear your perspective on that with, uh, with the benefit of the hindsight that you have.

Guest Yeah. I think the, the [00:05:00] benefit of the hindsight is that I believed. That driving revenue growth month over month, quarter over quarter, year over year would be the most important thing for my business.

Guest Because that's an, that's an attitude that you learn in startups in startup land, right? Yeah. Um, it turns out that's not that important. Like, you don't wanna fail, you don't want your business to go from a million bucks down to zero, right? But the idea is you need to make enough money to pay your bills, save and invest, and, um.

Guest If you're building an effective lifestyle business, the harder that you try to grow your revenue, the more difficult it becomes to maintain it as a lifestyle business. I'll give you some examples. So, um, if you're gonna create. More content than like I just do written content. If I wanted to go into video, I'd probably need to hire an editor, a script writer, someone who understands YouTube.

Guest Everyone thinks that the answer to their problems is to, to hire or outsource, but I've, man, I've [00:06:00] had teams of 150 people in my startup days and management in employees come with a lot of headaches. Yes. That starts to make it less than an ideal lifestyle business. Um. If you want to extend your revenue, oftentimes you might add additional business models.

Guest So in the past I've done things like consulting, advising, coaching, uh, I, I, I enjoy those things to an extent. But what happens after time is you're trading your time for money. And so they become less and less hours in the day to invest in business models that are more lifestyle first, digital products, subscriptions, things like that.

Guest So there's always a trade off. And so what I would do in hindsight is say. It's not about rapid growth quarter over quarter, year over year. It's about building a sustainable business that you enjoy that allows you to afford the lifestyle that you wanna live while still saving and investing for your future.

Guest That to me, is the most appropriate definition for [00:07:00] me of a lifestyle business.

Host I love that. So the idea there is start with the target, meaning, you know, the core lifestyle, maybe the ideal lifestyle, the ability to save, invest, do whatever you want to do for your family, but get to a number that is enough in whatever that means for you as at whatever stage of life you are in.

Host And design a business that. Can succeed towards that goal. Is that a fair summary

Guest of it? It's a fair summary and you know there are two ways to do it. One is to get as much money as humanly possible and then burn out, right? Yeah. Well, the other thing you can do is build a business that grows slowly and sustainably over time that you enjoy running.

Guest And what I often see. These quote unquote sort of lifestyle folks, uh, lifestyle business folks go after is the, is the former. And, um, nothing is worse than thinking that you're almost to whatever number that is, but dying to get there. And when you get there, you recognize it's not [00:08:00] enough, right? That I think the best thing that you can do is say, I could do this for the next 10 years.

Guest If you can do that effectively, if that's the attitude you have going into your business, you're gonna build a much healthier, much more fulfilling lifestyle business.

Host I love that. Yeah. That's beautiful. So. Just give us a summary of, I like to speak in terms of flywheels. You and I are both, uh, Nathan Berry friends and, and fans.

Host Um, if you had to encapsulate your current business model and how it is sustainable and how it is something you actually enjoy doing and how you've 80, 20 things into your zone of genius. Like just give us an overview of snapshot of your current model Yep. And decide kind of how that flywheel works and then we'll get more into your offers and, and talk a little more about some of the strategic decisions you've made.

Guest Totally. Um, from a high level, I have digital products and I have, um, a paid community and I have, uh, a newsletter with sponsors that is, that's from a high level most, where, where 90% of my revenue comes from. Um, my, i my [00:09:00] flywheels, right? For, for lack of a better description, are really simple. Like, so simple.

Guest I wouldn't even call them flywheels. My, my, uh, my, my whole thought is, um. Content is the name of the game. Yep. And a, a good content system begins with one good idea. So I, I'll give you an example. Um, if I have a good idea, I generally, or, or I think I hypothesize that it's a good idea. The fastest way to get feedback for me is Twitter or X.

Guest Right? And so I can just. Post, right? It's very simple. Like you post on Twitter all day. It's different than other platforms. You get really fast feedback, but once you understand that something's a good idea, like turning that into a LinkedIn post, an Instagram story, an Instagram post, a thread, like all the becomes really easy, right?

Guest And then once you've done that, validating that that idea works across multiple platforms is often a good indicator that it would be a great newsletter. So all of my content comes from a few [00:10:00] ideas. And the goal of that content. Is really to create discovery top of funnel, right? So I'm being discovered by thousands of new people or tens of thousands of new people every month, right?

Guest Yeah. I want them to see my short form content as a means to discovery. I want them to go from my short form content to my long form content, which is why I send people to my newsletter issues, articles, playbooks, all those different things. And I wanna do two things there. I wanna show off my expert, uh, expertise and establish authority, and by doing that.

Guest I position myself as someone who can solve their problems, whether that's building an audience on LinkedIn or learning how to build their first online business. And then I have simple cost-effective digital courses that solve those problems. And so for me it's discovery top of funnel. This is like my flywheel, for lack of a better description.

Guest Yeah. Uh, it's, it's expertise and authority, middle of funnel. And then it's understanding the challenges they have and the solutions they're looking for. [00:11:00] Bottom of funnel. Put it to a reasonable price so it's accessible for most of the world, and then over deliver. If you can do those things, you create in, in my estimate, uh, estimation a word of mouth flywheel.

Guest Yes. Where people are so amped to go out and say, I had this problem. I bought this thing from Justin, and it solved it, and you wanna look like a hero to your friends. You go out and suggest the same thing. That's my, my business model in a nutshell.

Host I love that. And it is, it is a flywheel 'cause I think the thing that makes it a flywheel is it is a closed loop.

Host And the, the tail end of what you described there is what makes it such an effective flywheel is the over-delivery because. As someone consumes one of your products, they're likely to consume more and they're very likely to refer other people to you. Share your content on these social media channels that you dominate, and so you're building a virtuous cycle, uh, in the way that you're delivering the experience.

Host Right. And I think as we get more into some of your offers and why you introduce community, I think this would be a, a cool place to point out. I'm also a [00:12:00] seven figure solopreneur, right? And I have an extremely different model in a sense, and I have a very different approach to my offers. Uh. Actually it, it echoes exactly what you just said, right?

Host I am more in the camp of a higher ticket group coaching experience. 'cause that's my unique ability. It's what I love. I'm not a gifted writer, you know, like you are. Um, and so much smaller attention. You know, we hit seven figures with less than a thousand people on an email list and less than probably 5,000 LinkedIn followers.

Host Um, but that was my model and it's more, um, intensive. Um, individualistic model in the sense that each client generates more revenue but have far fewer clients and far, far less exposure than you. But we still overdeliver and we get a lot of referrals. Um, and so I just wanted the listeners to hear, you don't have to be Justin Welsh in a sense of, you know, over a million, uh, you know, dedicated followers on social media to still have a seven figure business.

Host That works great for Justin because his style is writing first. You know, broad based [00:13:00] attention on a single topic. And then, you know, your preferred delivery model is courses and, and now community. So any, any reflection on that based on all the different models you've seen out there to hit seven figures in a, as a solopreneur?

Guest Yeah. I, I, I love to talk about the fact that the way that I built something is one of a thousand different ways. Yes. You can get there, right. Um. I would hate for someone to copy my journey only to find out that my luck or timing is not on their side. Yeah. Right. Um, what I think about when it comes to business is less about what's the step by step or the blueprint, or whatever you want to call it.

Guest Right. And more. How do you think about getting better over time? So for example, the way that I ran healthcare companies from a, from a sales and marketing perspective is I always considered myself a hypothesis based sales leader. Yeah. So I formed hypotheses and my goal was to either [00:14:00] prove or disprove those as quickly as possible.

Guest And once I proved something, the goal was to make it better over time. To me. That is how I think about online business. There's a lot of hypothesis, uh, forming of hypotheses. There's a lot of listening to signal and to your customer. Yeah. And I think most people that aren't having as much success as they want to have, believe that they can just do what I did or what you do or what someone else does, without recognizing that most of the, most of the success that we have comes from understanding our target market.

Guest Listening to the signals, listening to our customers, forming hypotheses, trying things, and then proving or disproving them as fast as possible. If you can do that effectively, you can build a community, a cohort-based coaching program, digital products, a SaaS tool and AI tool. You can, you can do it as many things as you want, as long as you figure out.

Guest What people want and how to [00:15:00] get it to them.

Host I love that. That's, yeah, it's a beautiful summary. And, and the only little nugget I would add to that is it goes back to the core question of what do you want? For sure. Uh, all of us have unique abilities, right? And so I love facilitating, I, I, I love group coaching as a model that might be torture for someone else.

Host And I have no interest in running a SaaS company, right? Yeah. Uh, but that's because that's my thing. Your thing is writing and you're really good at. That craft and that art and the science, obviously, and based in the way that you described it. And so that's my encouragement for someone listening is you can lean into whatever your unique ability, your interests are.

Host And I really love what you shared earlier. What would you love to do for 10 years? Like what sounds exciting to do for 10 years? Because a lifestyle business shouldn't be drudgery, right? And copying someone else's model a lot of times sets you up for. Drudgery because, uh, you're not actually doing the thing that fulfills you and you know, your unique God-given, uh, skills and abilities.

Guest That's right. And you said something there that just reminded me of something that I, I like to, to tell folks that I think is important, which is I like to write. Yes. And I [00:16:00] didn't always like to write, but the better I became at it, the more I liked. Right. Uh, and I think that's, that, that, that goes with any skill generally.

Guest Like, you know, playing sports is hard, but the better you get, the more enjoyment you, you often have. Um, so when I talk to people, they say, what should I do? Should I do video or writing? Like, is, is a common question I get? And the answer is, do whichever one you can see yourself doing for a long time because you truly enjoy it.

Guest And then once you've, once you've chosen that. Become really epic at your medium of choice, right? Yeah. So if you're gonna write, study great writers, read books on writing, write all day long all the time. Publish all of the time. Look at what works and what doesn't. Study your own writing, like if you're gonna do video.

Guest Go study the best video creators. Take a class, take a course. Like it, it, it marketing is so important, especially with AI right now, right? Like marketing becomes so critical. 'cause you, you can build so many [00:17:00] things. It's your ability to distribute and market them. So like, spend in, in an absurd amount of time trying to get good at your medium of

Host choice.

Host Yes. I love that. That's awesome. A quick sidebar. Uh. Not to come outta left field, but as someone who's so gifted and prolific at writing and is something you love, is there a reason there's, there's not a book or is there a book, uh, coming? 'cause that would seem to be the natural culmination of those skill sets.

Host You know, it's, it's been something that I've

Guest been in

Host talks

Guest about for over two years. Okay. And, um, if I had made the decision a hundred percent to write a book, we could do a contract. Right. Yeah. But pretty, pretty quickly. Um. My question is, do I, would I enjoy the structure of writing a book for a, a premium publishing house?

Guest Yeah. And that's not to, that's, there's no shade on a publishing house and it's not meant to be negative. It's not [00:18:00] criticism. It's simply for the last six years I have had no boss. Yes. No, no due dates. Um, nothing that I have to get done. And I know a book is a painstaking. Stressful, anxiety inducing experience, and I think that is something that I need to grapple with.

Guest Then I think there's probably some self-confidence challenges because, uh, I've, I've written short form content for six years, but I don't think of myself as a book writer. Yeah. And so I think getting over that hurdle, um, is, is maybe one of the last remaining hurdles to get over.

Host I love it. Well, thank you for the transparency there and the, and the mindfulness about, I hadn't even thought about that, that like.

Host Could, committing to that and sort of having in effect a boss, kind of take the joy out of the writing that you love so much, and now you have the ability to write when you want, about what you want and where you want. Uh, and you obviously give up some of the autonomy and the process of, of a [00:19:00] book and the style that you'd want to do, which is hopefully a, you know, a, a very popular bestselling book under a publishing house.

Host So that's, uh, yeah, that makes a ton of sense. Super, super insightful. Thanks. Um, one thing I wanted to touch on a little bit with you. So we actually, you know, officially met, uh, as I came in and I was blessed to be able to do a guest training in the unsubscribed community, which is your paid community. And of course I came on and talked about podcast guesting and it was, uh, a wonderful experience and will really well received.

Host Um, I know that foundationally, and you've talked about different things that you've tried over time, but the, the real core of your product stack has been digital courses, you know, the, uh, operating or the, uh, content operating system, LinkedIn, and then the creator MBA, which is the real, uh, big meaty sort of mid-tier course and.

Host Also, uh, you know, somewhat recently you added this unsubscribed community to your product stack. So I'd love to hear sort of the motivation behind that, uh, the good, bad, ugly. Um, what do you think about community in the offer stack and where it belongs [00:20:00] for, uh, these types of businesses that we're running?

Guest So the idea behind unsubscribe was twofold. One is, I believe with the rise in, in fast growth of ai, um, being human first in the future is going to be very important. Yes. Um, and so I wanted to bring that human element back into my business. And to give you a sense of, of how I do that, uh, we do in-person events with our unsubscribed community.

Guest So we've had one in London and San Francisco and New York and Chicago. We're going to Austin, uh, next month. Awesome. And it's just really meeting, meeting folks and shaking hands, right? And really getting to know people, uh, at their core. And that has been a cool experience. That's something that really energizes both me and my wife.

Guest Uh, and then the other sort of side to it is, it's, it's a creative outlet for me. I don't feel. The pressure to write about business. Um, I can write [00:21:00] about whatever I want. It's my newsletter about, you know, unsubscribing from the status quo. And that could take the shape of a business essay, but that could also take the shape of an observation about, you know, something I saw at a restaurant.

Guest And I don't, I don't have to, you know, uh, live up to any certain topical area, which I, which I love. So for me, it's been, it's been about expressing creativity. Um, I think. As we move towards fewer folks enjoying their social media experiments, um, ai, I, I just think that the, the average creative entrepreneur is going to need some sort of community in their offer stack.

Guest Yep. Um, especially if you're not someone with a million plus followers, I think that's gonna be. A huge benefit in value add. Uh, and so I didn't do it for that [00:22:00] exact reason. I did it more for creativity and just getting to know folks and making friends. Um, but I do think it will become important, especially to that kind of like mid-tier audience creator, if you will.

Host Yeah, I totally agree. And, uh, I've. I started off more content creation and coaching, and what I've realized over the past, say, 18 months is really the core of our business is community, right? We've had different versions of that and different ways to, to access that community and. I get asked sometimes the question like, what's the biggest asset of your business?

Host Right? And it's like actually the community, uh, that we've, that we've formed. And I think that that will continue to become a more and more important moat, uh, against, you know, our ai. And I also think as, as you hit on. It is the most direct, uh, one of the most direct ways that we can have that human to human connection and curate it, right?

Host Where you're actually getting to choose and select who you're in community with and letting people opt into that experience, um, uh, versus opt out of the status quo. [00:23:00] So I really appreciate that. And I, I guess also there's the. Aspect of it, it sounds like it wasn't a primary motivation for you, but community is a very, um, sustainable model in the sense of recurring revenue, right?

Host Like one of the downsides of selling one-off digital products is there one-off purchases. And so any, any thoughts on that as far as this, this trajectory that this can build in a business from a recurring revenue standpoint?

Guest Yeah, I mean, I, I think. If, if I focused more intensely on it, I could continue to grow the recurring revenue around the community.

Guest That's not really my goal with this. Yeah. Um, so to me it's more just like, if you wanna be a part of this, here it is. Right. There's no, I don't, I don't promote it a whole lot. Um, people find it and join it. Uh, I think what it's doing for me is showing me the opportunity. To create recurring revenue through other means.

Guest So when I think about like, sustain [00:24:00] sustainability and longevity, I don't need my business to keep growing. Mm-hmm. Um, I wanna make sure that I'm playing defense at this point in my life. And so I'll give you an example of what I mean. Courses at some point will become commoditized by ai, not because I think AI does a good job of teaching people the stuff they need to learn, but because they feel like they're being taught the stuff they need to learn.

Guest Yes. And that in and of itself is basically the same thing. Um, so what my community, especially on Substack Ha has done is shown me. That people will pay to have access of some sort. So in the future, if I wanna play defense, I could create a paid newsletter with a very simple community chat based around that, and simply write for the rest of my life and probably make a good enough living where I, I won't have any financial problems.

Guest Right? Yeah. So I, I'm exploring [00:25:00] that platform, I'm exploring that business model. Um, but to me. It's, it's really an exciting preview of how I can use the platform to, to build

Host revenue. Yeah. I love that. Awesome. Well, uh, uh, any interview with a top creator would be, uh, remiss if I didn't at least talk a little bit about podcast guesting.

Host Uh, as I mentioned, you know, that's, that's my area of expertise. It's the thing I often get invited into other, uh, amazing communities to shed some light on and talk about. You know, in, in researching for our interview, you certainly have done, you know, uh, plenty of podcast interviews, but I would say as a ratio compared to some of the other creators that I follow.

Host It's, it's on the lower end, and thank you for being here and, and doing it today. Sure, of course. But yeah. What are your thoughts on that? You, you obviously heard my workshop. You, you run the unsubscribed community. You have access to a lot of amazing top creators who, many of which host podcasts, a lot of them do the guesting thing.

Host I just love your personal thoughts on. How it fits into your model. Is this something you think you want to do more of? Is this something you're [00:26:00] kind of allergic to? There's no right or wrong answers here. You're not gonna offend me, but I would, I would love to get your thoughts on it.

Guest It's not something that I'm allergic to.

Guest I think when I first, I guess was in the beginning of my journey and getting some traction, um, you know. I was a, a, a fast growing creator who lots of people wanted to chat with. Yeah. And I took that opportunity to, to have those conversations. Um, as I enter my sixth or seventh year of doing this, I feel like, um, more of like a veteran athlete, right?

Guest Yeah. Where like you maybe want to talk to the press a little less, uh, and not, not because you don't like it. It's just more so I only have a certain amount of hours in the day to do my creative work. Um, I, I don't want to spend as much time doing work as I did when this journey was getting started. I wanna spend more time with my wife and our dogs.

Guest I wanna spend more time traveling and [00:27:00] frankly, like with an audience of almost a million and a half folks, I can write something in. Five minutes that'll be seen by 230,000 people, you know, um, on an impression basis. Or I can spend an hour on a podcast that might be listened to by 200 people. Yep. Now, that's not to say that those aren't valuable listens.

Guest They they absolutely are. And, and play a different purpose than my written content. But as I alluded to earlier, I'm not trying to grow my business.

Host Yeah.

Guest I'm, I'm great where it's at and even if it decreases a little bit, like I'm, I'm totally okay with that. Um, I'm in sort of the, you know. The less relevant stage of sort of the creator journey.

Guest And, uh, and I'm okay with that.

Host I, I'm, I'm curious when you say that, because I, I know your background. We have, um, some similar chapters of burnout and, and growth at all costs at times. I, I feel like I've settled down from that a lot myself, but. Does it feel weird or do [00:28:00] you think it would've felt weird five years ago to say, I'm not really looking to grow my business?

Host Is that, that, that strikes me as something that most people wouldn't say, and I really admire the fact that you said it, but how does that, how, how have you internalized that to be able to say that with a straight face, I guess?

Guest Listen, I have just as many worries as the average person, if not more. I'm, you know, I, I inherited, um, you know, a a a a financial.

Guest Mindset from my dad where like, you know, I worry about that kind of stuff. Like, um, I, I think talking with, with friends of mine, talking with advisors, talking with mentors, messing around with, with AI has, has me feeling very confident about my lot in life and, and very fortunate and I can do one of two things.

Guest I'm sure there is a third option, but let's just boil it down to two. I can go really hard. There's three things. I can go really hard and try and get that enough number, which, which I already, uh said is not a good idea. Yes. I can, uh, [00:29:00] build a really sustainable business over, over the next 10 years. Right.

Guest Or I could quit. I like that. I like that. You, those are basically the three options, right? The third option

Host is an important one that people should, uh, should realize is always an option. Yeah.

Guest I don't want to quit. I don't want to go as hard as I can for some imaginary number that probably won't make me feel any better.

Guest So to me, the only option that's left is to do something that I enjoy. And the only way that I'm gonna enjoy that is, you know, if I'm, if I'm working a couple of hours a day and spending the rest of my time doing the stuff I want to do with people I want to do it with. So that's really sort of the how it boils down to how I think about.

Guest Growth. You know, it might grow anyway, but if it doesn't, it won't be the end of the world.

Host That's awesome. I love that. That's a really, it's a very mature answer. Uh, it's one that I'd say I've, I've grown into, um, adopting, uh, for the most part, you know, a similar mindset. So I think that's, uh. I love that.

Host That's, uh, that's definitely a big takeaway for me is hearing you say that and articulate [00:30:00] so clearly why, uh, why you can choose the second option and feel so, feel really fulfilled in that decision. So as we kind of move to the final chapter here, uh, because it's, you know, the time it is AI's come up.

Host Some portion of almost every, uh, answer that that you've given. So I'd love to just zoom in a little bit on that and talk a little more about AI's role in your business and sort of where you see that going in the creator economy and solo, solo entrepreneurship. Um, maybe, you know, the pros, cons, how you see to leverage it the right way.

Host It's a lot of questions in there, but sort of, you know, Justin Welsh's take on AI in the, in the age that we're in because it's definitely not something that, uh, is going away.

Guest Well, I think, um. Let's start with the cons, right? Because I think the cons are pretty, maybe common things that people will talk about is, you know, I see it as almost potentially the death of creativity, which I don't love.

Guest Now I might find that that is in fact completely untrue, right? Um, but. I don't [00:31:00] know. I enjoy listening to a band who wrote their songs and played their instruments and, and has a journey and a, and a story behind them. I, I enjoy reading a writer who, who is a real person with real experiences and, and real unique flaws.

Guest Um, I worry that AI will rob us of those experiences. Um, but on the flip side, the pro is that. The more human-centric that you are, the more unique your experiences are, the more you're gonna stand out in that world. And so there is a, there is sort of a, an equal but opposite reaction to each one of these cons.

Guest Um, that, that is my biggest concern is that creativity becomes something that is no longer valued. And I think creativity should be valued. Um, I think the pros, uh, are, are as follows. I can work a lot faster. Right. So like, let me, let me give you an example if, um. If I don't know what to write for my newsletter this week, I'll just drop a voice [00:32:00] note into Claude and chat through a bunch of things in my head and say, like, connect these dots and help me think of something to, to, to write about.

Guest Right? I've written 200 plus newsletters, you know, and 4,000 pieces of social content, you know, so, you know, usually I'm organically inspired throughout, through conversations or experiences in my life. Sometimes it's just like I'm staring at a blank piece of paper. I need, need that help. Um. Claude in particular is a very strong editor, right?

Guest Uh, and, and, uh, giving, it's really strong at giving feedback. So, for example, I have a, a workflow where when I write my, my weekly newsletter, I'll drop it in there and essentially grade it. On, uh, a number of criteria that make for a compelling newsletter. And oftentimes it'll come back and say, this stinks, right?

Guest And like, and, and so then I have to fix it. Uh, but that's a lot better than like, um, hiring an editor or trying to edit my own stuff [00:33:00] or like my wife helps a, a little bit on that side. But it's been able to allow me to see the errors in my storytelling in how compelling I'm being. And I love that it's teaching me, right?

Guest So over time, as I upload my newsletters that I write, they're, they're getting better because I'm learning essentially from the editor, right? Which I think is, is very, very useful. Um. Another way that I use AI in, in a way that I think is a big pro is simply data analytics.

Host Yeah.

Guest So a, as someone who creates a, an incredible amount of content, I do about, I think 150 pieces of content a month.

Guest Wow. Um, uh, it, it's great at spotting patterns. It's great at helping me form hypotheses like we talked about earlier. Uh, it's great at telling me why something didn't work. Generally, it's not always right, but it, it's generally, uh, I think directionally correct and so I use it to, to work faster, to [00:34:00] write and edit more effectively.

Guest Right. So it helps me really, really take those newsletters to ano another level and then to, to analyze all the data that I get from that. And, and I think. That has been a, a, not just a time saver, but a but an improver of the effort that I make is now, you know, it pays off more.

Host Yeah. I love that. Yeah. And what I hear there is.

Host Not at all. A replacement for your own creativity. Correct. But an amplifier, an optimizer, a um, thought partner in a sense, uh, for ideation and editing and, uh, review and, and analytics. The other thing you, the word that you said, uh, this, what we'll close on here is story. And so I feel like anytime I think about ai, I, I sort of think of the, uh, the other side of the coin as story and that.

Host AI can of course create stories and make stuff up, but I think the thing that still attracts people to us as creators and as people running online businesses, um. Is our own story, right? It's our [00:35:00] own authenticity, transparency, vulnerability, all the things that go into that. Like what, what are your thoughts on just story?

Host And especially, it's interesting to me, like to me, story comes up naturally because most of my content is longer form. Yeah. Uh, podcasting, podcast, guesting, things like that. And so story is a natural element. Uh, when you're in this format, you've told numerous stories, lots of great examples, but in short form, it feels like it's easy to leave out the story or, or miss the.

Host The ability to integrate story, I guess. So like what are your thoughts on the importance of story, especially as we look over the horizon, uh, at the emergence of ai?

Guest Yeah, I, I think in, in short form, you know, stories are harder to tell. Yeah. Um, I think you can tease out a story very effectively and lead someone to a piece of longer, uh, form content that does a, does the story better justice, um.

Guest But I also think if you're a good writer, you can write a short story pretty com in, in a pretty [00:36:00] compelling fashion. Um, I think what's the famous thing, like, uh, write a story in like less than a sentence and it's like, baby shoes for sale never worn, I think is the, the example, right? Yeah. Uh, I think that's an, that's kind of a, an extreme example, but.

Guest Telling your personal stories is, is what separates you in an age of ai. And I'll give you an example. So my wife and I were in New York, and I don't know when this podcast will be published, but my wife and I were in New York, uh, early October, and uh, she left her wallet in the back of a cab and. She was very distraught.

Guest 'cause we have a ton, she had a ton of, she had ca, you know, cash. We were paying our pet sitter. She all her credit cards, her license a little note from me, like stuff she couldn't recover and like, she was pretty sure it was gone. It was in New York City, right? Yeah. And I had like this really interesting thought that it would get returned, um, from a karmic perspective of, I've, I've actually returned two wallets in the last 10 years and I'm like, I'm gonna get this wallet.

Guest I [00:37:00] speak karma and like it happened. Young guy found it. Reached out to us on Facebook, helped get the wallet back. And I was like, that's a really cool story. And here's, here's the where, where AI in real life in storytelling kind of bifurcate, right? So like I was like, that's a compelling story and there's something in that story as it relates to entrepreneurship.

Guest I really struggled to figure out, now I'm reverse engineering, right? I'm starting with a story and trying to make it about entrepreneurship instead of being like, this is something that happened, but I thought there was a good idea there. So the story was real. And then I started playing around with, with AI thinking.

Guest How do I, here's my, here's how I think about it a little bit as it relates to entrepreneurship. Can you help me flesh this idea out a little bit more? Yeah. And AI was able to do that really effectively until I had a story, what was number one true and number two, really relevant to entrepreneurship. Uh, [00:38:00] and they asked me good questions and I filled in the blanks and I, I got kind of the, the infrastructure of the story and then I was able to write it.

Guest And so that's a really good example of like. How your personal experience, you can't forget that, but you can use AI to help you become better at pulling that, that beautiful story out and that, and that's what I'm publishing this upcoming Saturday. So like, you know, folks, if they're listening to this, it'll probably be published already.

Guest But you know, that's a good example of that in my opinion. That's awesome.

Host That's. Really good example. Yeah, I like that. I'm sorry for, you know, Jennifer's, uh, panic in the, in the moment, but I, I like that your, your insight is like, Hey, I've already returned a couple wallets, like this is coming back. Like, I, uh, I put it out, I put it out as coming back to us.

Host Um, and yeah, I could, I can already, I'm, I'm looking forward to the newsletter, to uh, see, see how this story, um, plays out because that's a really good hook. So, um, well, Justin, uh, I really appreciate your time. Again, I know this isn't something that you spend a lot of your creative juices [00:39:00] doing, but I, I feel like we've touched on some topics here that are gonna be very evergreen, very useful, um, very motivational and instructive for people who are on this journey building a seven figure.

Host Entrepreneurship, uh, based business. And I'm just really grateful for you. I'm grateful we've gotten to know each other and, uh, that you, you took the time and space to be here. So as we close out, like where should people go? They want to go next, uh, you know, take that next step with you. I know you've got kind of numerous places we could send them, but what's, uh, what's the best next step for people?

Guest Yeah, there's a couple different places they can go to. Uh, Justin welsh.me, that's just J-U-S-T-I-N-W-E-L-S h.me. Uh, if they're interested in, uh, learning a little bit about the community that I have, it's the Unsubscribed Co. The unsubscribed Co. And that's it. You know, that's where you can basically learn most about what I do and, uh.

Guest I appreciate you having me on, man. It's, you're, you're a good interviewer and uh, I thought you asked great questions and I [00:40:00] appreciate you help pulling some of that stuff outta me because, uh, you can only be a good guest with a good host.

Host Absolutely. Well, I appreciate that and hopefully there's some good fodder from this interview for a lot of future newsletters and, uh, and LinkedIn posts.

Host So Justin welsh.me. The unsubscribed.co. Uh, definitely want to check those things out and get on the Saturday Solopreneur newsletter, uh, when you do that as well. So, Justin, thanks again man. You're a gift to me. You're a gift to our, our audience, our community. Thanks for being here and looking forward to, uh, staying in touch with you and seeing where these next chapters take you.

Host Appreciate it, man.