Creating Consistent Income Streams Without Selling Your Soul with Joe McKay

[00:00:00] Joe: So you deliver for a client, get some great results, those results turn into nice social proof that can become a new piece of content to find the next client. So you, build this virtuous cycle, this flywheel, and for me , in the content factory, I was spending a lot less time and my content was becoming more, much more effective as well , I wasn't trying to make up stuff that would be interesting.

[00:00:19] Joe: , it was purely harvesting what was already there.

[00:00:43] Dustin: Welcome back to the seven figure lead podcast. I'm really delighted today. I get to be joined with someone who's got a way cooler accent than me and a way smarter than me on a lot of things, marketing, especially LinkedIn. So Joe McKay and I actually met and we'll get into this story, but we met in some form or fashion through LinkedIn and through Lishay Lewis, who's a former guest here on the podcast, as he gets to tell on his story, you'll realize he's a much more worldly man than, than Midwestern Dustin here, but, Joe, I'm really Really grateful to know you.

[00:01:10] Dustin: First of all, we're working with Joe right now on our podcast profits accelerator program. He has such a cool story and such rich. Material and strategies and tactics to share with marketing. I was like, let's just get on my podcast and , let's record these conversations that we've been having. So Joe welcome, man.

[00:01:23] Joe: Thank you so much for having me, Dustin. Really looking forward , to chatting with you in this capacity. We've obviously spent a lot of time together in the last few, well, last couple of months, and I'm really enjoying it.

[00:01:32] Dustin: Awesome. Well, I like to, dig in a little bit here, get a little bit in your backstory. So I'll let you steer kind of where we pick up this entrepreneurial journey, but trying to give the audience appreciation of your background and like why you do what you do today. And we're going to spend most of our time in present day and even looking a little bit into the future for your business, but yeah, take us back where everything's appropriate.

[00:01:50] Dustin: , I sense that your accent is not from the United States. I think you sit in France, but it's not from there either. So wherever it makes sense to talk about, talk about that. We were just talking about snow and he's like, never had a snow day. So Joe, give us a little backstory on all that.

[00:02:03] Joe: Yeah, totally. Yeah. So, There's probably three things that you need to know about me to sort of, I guess, pull all the threads together. I would say that I am, a very curious mind. I've got a really strong bias to action. And I'm very resourceful. And that's showed up in a whole lot of different ways throughout my life.

[00:02:18] Joe: but most relevant, I guess, to where we are now. I'm Australian. I met my beautiful wife , who's French. We met in Sydney. But in 2022, she was pregnant with second child and really wanted to be in France, surrounded by family for the birth , of our son, after having our, daughter in, in Australia.

[00:02:34] Joe: So we decided to move the family to France in 2022. I'd quit. a government job to, enable that, you know, time zones and things just didn't make it, feasible to, work remote. And so I found myself , in 2022, unemployed, doing a bit of marketing, freelancing stuff to pay the bills, but really with, time on my hands and, yeah, this curious mind, this, bias to action kind of resourcefulness really add some gasoline of like free time in between baby bottles and nappy changes and things was, Yeah, kind of started a forest fire really of just what is next for me now after a corporate career.

[00:03:06] Joe: And so I found myself starting to journal and then write a little bit more formally. And then I started to share some of what I was writing on linked in, and some of the stuff that I was writing about was starting to pick up some traction. I started to get really nice, positive, kind of supportive messages from people.

[00:03:21] Joe: I really respected in my network. And, you know, and I still specifically remember one message I got from a former client at a marketing agency. I was at and she said, , you're really good at this. I hope that you, go and work in this someday. And she was sort of referring to linked in and content and that had not crossed my mind at all.

[00:03:37] Joe: It started from there. And so I discovered people like Dickie Bush, Nicholas Cole, Justin Welsh, like, probably the original solo preneur, and I had this problem to solve of , what can I do that? Allows us to live where we want to live at a given point in time, that helps me to be flexible and free to spend time with the family and travel.

[00:03:56] Joe: And, that really just overlapped with my presence on LinkedIn, I guess. And so, This idea of ghostwriting content, creating content for other people on LinkedIn , just jumped out. I remember I, reached out to an old boss who was partner of a management consultancy and I offered to write 10 posts for him for, I think, 500 bucks was, was where it started.

[00:04:12] Joe: That was back end of 2022 and really then it's kind of picked up from there. I did. held onto a day job in marketing for most of 2023 just to sort of, pay the bills and I guess find the feet, feed the family, all that kind of stuff. But then come January 2024, I realized I had replaced my salary with my side hustle.

[00:04:32] Joe: And, I'd figured out that I was pretty good at this and there were people, you know, there was a steady kind of stream of clients there. This wasn't a fluke. And so, 1st of January, 2024, I went all in on the side hustle

[00:04:41] Dustin: that's awesome. Well, let's yeah. So I actually didn't know a lot of this, so, at first you said government jobs. I'm like, Oh, this guy's working,

[00:04:47] Dustin: security at the airport. But then you mentioned marketing, you mentioned some consulting. So. Again, as much details you think is relevant, but like, did you come from a marketing background?

[00:04:56] Dustin: So was your government job in marketing or some sort of content consulting? Because seems like a big jump to go from quote unquote government job to like, I just decided to go , write content on linkedin. I'm like, well, who does that? So yeah, I think you make a little bit of a connection there for us.

[00:05:08] Joe: yeah, yeah, absolutely. So, , I've done a million and one different things in my career, but probably the most stable job I had was at a sports marketing and, content agency. So I was an account manager there, for around three years. From there, I moved into, the events team of. It's a government department, but basically the tourism agency for the state where I live in Australia.

[00:05:27] Joe: So, marketing bent, I guess, to that work, with the stability of, a government environment. And so that, combined was about five years worth of experience, in this, world of marketing and sponsorship and events. So that, that was kind of the pivot from

[00:05:40] Dustin: That makes, okay, that makes a lot more sense. right? So you get the second kid come in, you decide, all right, wife, my turn, let's move to France. And obviously you had family and stuff there to support you, but that's a huge life change.

[00:05:50] Dustin: You leave a job that was not like it was working pretty well for you, that you enjoyed in the tourism industry with the government there in Australia. At what point are you like, I think I want to write about this on LinkedIn, I don't know, I probably had a link to like, I think a lot of our listeners, I probably had some kind of LinkedIn account in like 2008 or something, , like as an online resume, I think I actually started writing there on purpose, probably 2022 around the same time as you.

[00:06:10] Dustin: But I was going there with the purpose of like, I should try to get clients because I've been hearing more about this on all the digital marketing podcasts I listened to and stuff. Right? But it sounds like you almost came into it almost like an outlet, a journal, a journaling outlet. And then people started telling you, this is actually good, man.

[00:06:25] Dustin: Like you should do more of this. Is that really how it happened?

[00:06:27] Joe: Yeah. So, , my role at the, sponsorship and marketing agency I was at. Was a suit like in an agency, there's suits and there's creatives and I was a suit and I let people tell me and told myself that I wasn't creative, , and, in 2022, I just decided to challenge that idea.

[00:06:44] Joe: And yeah, I started to journal, started to write, like I just had a lot of thoughts in my head and I was ruminating on them, you And I realized I needed to just I think Ed Sheeran talks about like this rusty tap, like you've just got to turn it on and just , let stuff flow out, and I found it really helping me just to clear the head.

[00:06:58] Joe: And express myself in a different way that maybe wasn't like a big, beautiful marketing campaign. It was just, words like text on a page. But for me, that was my style of creativity, I guess. And it built from there, and it was like, bringing me closer to who I feel as though I really am, in a sense, like as deep as that sounds, I rejected the idea that I wasn't creative, and I just realized I was creative in a different way,

[00:07:22] Dustin: I can super relate. I was kind of challenging on that. Like, who does that? And I'm like, well, actually, in 2009, I'm like on vacation with my wife and I'm an engineer, for almost 10 years. And I just had this itch. I'm like, yeah, I felt stifled.

[00:07:33] Dustin: I felt like this kind of bored, like is fine. I'm glad we're doing it. We have, two kids and a third on the way. But I needed this created out creative outlet. Right. So for me, I think it started initially a little bit on Facebook. At that point, everything was a blog, right?

[00:07:45] Dustin: So I'm like, I'm just going to learn how to do a blog. And I just started writing and then people said, Oh, this is really helpful. And I wrote a book and then that became our first online business. So I guess, you feel the itch enough, you start to scratch it and then it's like, that leads you down a new path.

[00:07:57] Dustin: So I just want to dig into that. Cause it's, really important on your story that you ended up on LinkedIn specifically, because now you've grown so much from there. So I think we've closed the gap a little bit. Like, Oh, how do you get to France and then to LinkedIn? And so something else that you said was really interesting that I wrote down was you were doing this for yourself.

[00:08:14] Dustin: Some old colleague was like, you're good at this. You know, hope that you lean into this more. And then you had an old, I think it was, you said it was an old boss. You're like, I'll write you 10 posts and he's like, sure. And so that was really important at the end of 2022, let's just call it a year later, you end up leaving the day job and doing this full time.

[00:08:31] Dustin: So that's a really important year. So I just want to walk us through a little bit of that evolution of how you went from not even doing this on purpose to quitting, and then we'll talk a lot more about the last year and what you're doing now and the evolution from there. But I think that year of.

[00:08:44] Dustin: Side hustling is really important for our listeners to hear because they either are in it or they're going to be in it or they've been in it. And I think a lot of people, including myself can totally relate to that. So I'd love to hear a little more of your specific story from say January 1st, 2023 to January 1st, 2024.

[00:08:59] Dustin: And what that looked like.

[00:09:00] Joe: You know, and I look back on this and having what I was doing as a side hustle actually was a real position of strength because when it came to pricing my service, this was my weekends, my evenings, it was going to be time away from my family. So I never, got into a race to the bottom to try and find new clients.

[00:09:18] Joe: So I had my salary that was paying the bills and then I had my side hustle and, the price point Was a rate like a good solid what I described as like a premium kind of high ticket offer That's what my spare time was and is worth to me

[00:09:31] Dustin: I think a lot of people think of a side hustle and you're like, they have this view of themselves when they're like, I'm a side hustler. It's like, I'm a beggar, right? , Oh, will you give me 50 bucks? I'll do anything for an extra 50 bucks.

[00:09:40] Dustin: But I liked that you flipped that and you're like, no, I like, I got what I need. We're stable. I've got a day job. And if I'm going to sacrifice more, it's gotta be for the right price. So I liked that you actually created a premium pricing mindset , as a freelancer, as a side hustle. I think that's really cool.

[00:09:55] Joe: Yeah. And look, I'm thankful that I haven't been in the situation again, because , I think there's maybe this Hollywood idea that you just walk in and quit your job one day and go and start a business. And I can imagine being in a situation where you don't have enough income to pay the bills that you would end up very quickly in that very stressful kind of race to the bottom scenario.

[00:10:13] Joe: Thankfully I never got to that point. And that's when I kind of knew that this was. A feasible plan and , going back to the very beginning , that 500 bucks for 10 posts, like I realized that was going to be pretty unsustainable. And early on, I realized that I was, the marketing I was doing was attracting the wrong kind of leads, like people who didn't have that kind of money to spend. And again, that was a really important forcing function of like, well, you need to change your targeting, change your messaging, change your content to find the people that will pay that.

[00:10:39] Joe: It's not about dropping your prices to meet the market you've got today. It's about what levers can you pull to get to an audience that, can afford that, price. So the side hustle position, I think is a real position of strength. I can security and stability. And so I spent 12 months really just honing my craft, nailing the offer.

[00:10:55] Joe: And then trying to build a more repeatable kind of efficient way to deliver the service. it was towards the end of 2023. My boss from my day job offered me a big promotion. I basically become second in charge of the business. And I, , I had to really sit with that for a long time.

[00:11:08] Joe: And it was just a 2 years, 3 years, 4 years from now. Does this leave me closer to where I want to be going? And that actually made the decision really easy in the end when I, thought about what the future look like, and so I handed in my notice, you know, that was then the kind of the conversation like, well, I don't want to go up.

[00:11:23] Joe: So it's, time to go out and do my own thing. And I was fortunate to be able to be up front before I accepted the job, I told my boss about the side hustle and that, , my LinkedIn channel was, my property, I guess, my IP and I was going to need to use it to keep growing my thing on the side and he was accepting of that, which was, I know is a fortunate thing.

[00:11:41] Joe: So that conversation became pretty easy.

[00:11:43] Dustin: the

[00:11:43] Dustin: last thing I want to get into a more, theoretical or, cerebral sort of thought here. So you decided, Hey, I want to try this side hustle thing.

[00:11:51] Dustin: And you, one thing that you wrote down and I thought was really useful too, is as you realize you're attracting people who didn't want to pay your Instead of changing your rate, you changed. Purposefully who you're trying to attract. I think that's a really important mindset shift. But then, , you got this whole year of building things up and it sounds like you're kind of at this point where, all right, I built this up.

[00:12:09] Dustin: I'm basically replacing my income. And of course, the way the universe or God or however you want to say it works, you get presented with the silver platter of like, how about you just stay here and take a promotion? Cause he had a really hard decision. I imagined to make. And it's not like you were a lifelong entrepreneur , and this job was just like a stopgap and like, this was like a great job and it seemed like you really liked it, but you said the thing that helped you make that decision with confidence was looking three years, five years down the road and saying, what's really going to make me happy.

[00:12:35] Dustin: So that's when I like. Unpack that a little bit because it's going to tell a little more about who you are and what drives you and, really some of the changes you've made in the year since, as you continue to step more into that identity. So Joe, I guess the best way you can articulate it, like what was that three or five year vision?

[00:12:49] Dustin: Like what was path a and path B and why did you feel so confident saying I'm going to do my own thing and not take the promotion?

[00:12:55] Joe: Yeah. I think the key factor for us was, and this was an us, this was a way decision, , very much. I think that's probably the first thing is, what works for the family. And that is, reality of having a wife who was born on the other half of the planet, means that, , location independence is super valuable.

[00:13:11] Joe: so I knew that that wasn't going to be possible. You know in the environment that I was in in the day job. So that was probably the biggest factor and really tied to that is We've got young kids and for them to have a second language that they're now fluent in experience a second culture you know second passport like all that kind of stuff that I think for them is going to be Really beneficial in the future and to be honest It just sat right with me.

[00:13:33] Joe: Like , it was just this sense of knowing that I just had to do this. You know, I thought about if I had to just put one in the bin and only do one for the next two years, like I just knew straight away that I wasn't going to walk away from everything I'd been.

[00:13:46] Dustin: That's awesome. Yeah, I didn't occur to me as , the guy who's lived within what 50 miles of where I was born for most of my life. This whole idea. Yeah, the location independence, the and raising your kids in that lifestyle and the entrepreneurship and I know this is a big part of what drives you to do the work that you do now that we're going to get into is empowering other people with that, right?

[00:14:04] Dustin: And so that's obviously a core value of yours is freedom. Location, independence, some degree of financial independence that supports that. So , that's really cool. So, yeah, so tell us a little more. We're going to kind of zoom into today or, , the past 6 months, because I know you've, made some changes into who you work with and how you work.

[00:14:21] Dustin: You talked about ghostwriting, , as you look over the past year. So the year of 2024, you went full time. , what did that look like? Were you purely doing ghostwriting services? What does that look like today? So give us like the next year in this journey before we get to today, as we're recording in early 2025, what's been the evolution as you went full time into your own, full time business.

[00:14:39] Joe: yeah, so look, the evolution was really,

[00:14:42] Joe: a positive thing, but it was a lot of content creation. So when I made that announcement, made the big switch, was able to secure, a bunch of new clients and kind of fill my books. And I was cranking out a lot of linkedin content.

[00:14:53] Joe: For probably the first, well, the first 6 to 8 months, it was a content factory. And, again, I just honed my craft on, on warp speed doing that. And along the way I learned a lot of, I guess tools and techniques That were making it more efficient and effective for me.

[00:15:08] Joe: And so, towards the last quarter of, last year, when , we probably started to talk was when I'd, basically started to position a coaching officer, a one to one coaching program. That's really, designed to share a lot of what I've learned spending way too much time on LinkedIn in the last two to three years.

[00:15:23] Joe: and beyond that, , business model of being a solopreneur. Like, how can you create consistent revenue? How do you have sales conversations or commercial conversations if you haven't done that before and you feel a bit awkward about that? So the coaching offer, I kind of beta tested that September with a few, people in my network and then kind of formalize that into a program.

[00:15:42] Joe: Now really doubling down on more of my one to one coaching, keeping the ghostwriting offer as a, high ticket service for, key clients that have been with me for a long time. And my focus moving forward, as you touched on there, like I want to help other people to be able to do something similar to what I've been able to do.

[00:15:58] Dustin: Yeah. I love that. So you got like the deepest of deep dives into what works on LinkedIn and how to create content.

[00:16:04] Dustin: And, I know you have a ton of strategies and some things we're going to unpack here for the audience. Yes, Specifically for like tactical, what to do on LinkedIn today. But you learned all that and you developed a business model in the, course of it, and you start to understand your own values and this whole idea of location independence.

[00:16:19] Dustin: And with all of that comes, Oh, I need to figure out like. Cashflow and how to offer, how to price offers and how to have sales conversations. Right. And I think that's, what's really beautiful is you transitioned over the past couple of years, especially , in the most recent year from a doer, from a technician, from like a creative person.

[00:16:36] Dustin: Who's great at writing and attracting clients on LinkedIn for yourself and others into a business person, right. Into a solopreneur who's now running a real quote unquote real business. And now you're able to look back and say, Hey, all you people that are doing what I was doing and having some success on LinkedIn or maybe even some of the clients that you help with ghostwriting, what would it look like if you had a true solopreneurship coaching business?

[00:16:58] Dustin: I just went through that journey. I can help you. Is that sort of the tone of where you find yourself today?

[00:17:02] Joe: Yeah, look, I think , that's a good summary. , this has changed my life, this journey. And, It's been the best thing that's happened to our family. , as I said, , I want to help other people to have that for them, like build that for themselves if that's , what they want.

[00:17:13] Joe: And, you know, I often think someone who's one or two steps ahead of you on the journey , is the best person to learn from. So, that's pretty much who I'm, yeah, I'm looking back over my shoulder a little bit at the people who are maybe where I was two years ago and, trying to share everything that I've learned along the way with them.

[00:17:27] Dustin: Yeah, that's awesome. So. I just want to be really clear. And you got the more premium ghostwriting opportunities still for certain clients. But yeah, give us a snapshot today of if people want to work with Joe McKay, what are their options so we can get kind of a feel?

[00:17:40] Dustin: And then we'll talk a little bit about future pacing and where do you see this going? And then we'll turn purely to tactics and strategy and how to win on LinkedIn, which is how we'll spend our last, 10 minutes or so.

[00:17:49] Joe: Yeah, look, , the core offer that rolling out now is all working with clients on now is a 90 day program to it's all about smoothing out lumpy income. Like, I think lumpy income is one of the hardest parts about that early stage solopreneur journey. There's a few different ways you can address that.

[00:18:05] Joe: So the 90 day program is really focused on building systems, repeatable approaches to, creating content for LinkedIn, following up prospects, having sales conversations, like all that kind of stuff to, to smooth out what can be very lumpy income as a solid premium, especially in the early stages.

[00:18:21] Joe: So that's 90 days, one to one. I'm probably too invested in, the clients that I'm working with on this. Like I just, I love how tangible , The results are and how tangible the benefit is. And I know you, would say the same thing from all the work that you do. Like it's, there's nothing as engaging to me , as that watching someone develop over those 12 weeks, and see what they achieve.

[00:18:41] Joe: So , that's kind of my bread and butter right now.

[00:18:44] Dustin: I love that. And then for select clients, when it makes sense, you still have obviously the, muscle back there that you can bring to bear and do ghostwriting. But that's not the focus. I mean, for the right people, that might make sense. Yeah, I love that. Obviously to Joe and I, it's obvious, but, uh, to the audience, I mentioned this at the outlay of the interview, we're like halfway through the podcast profits accelerator, we just came out of holiday break, so I haven't seen Joe for a few weeks, but, I'm pretty intimately familiar with this offer because I've been around it.

[00:19:09] Dustin: We've been talking a lot about it. We've been helping him with some frameworks and positioning and, , he's, of course, selling the offer and he's having a lot of success with it. We're just trying to refine, optimize it as we do. And then we're, you know, of course, marketing and podcast guesting.

[00:19:20] Dustin: Guess what? He's doing it right here with me. I think it's awesome. I think it's super needed. And I would agree with you as someone who's done this. This is how I've invested in my own growth and how I help a lot of people is being a few steps ahead on a journey that someone wants to be on and being their guide.

[00:19:36] Dustin: Right? We talk about that from a story brand perspective, showing up, being a guide. I love that you're doing it right now in a one on one 90 day, intensive relationship where someone's like, I'm having success, particularly on LinkedIn. , I'm a great coach, but man, it's like 2000 this month and 12, 000 this month and 3000 this month and 9, 000 this month, and you're helping people get that consistent non lumpy income so that they can actually have the independence, the confidence, to be able to move forward in their coaching career.

[00:20:01] Dustin: And you're giving them the tools, marketing strategy and otherwise to do that. So kudos to you. And as you look for a little bit, Joe's there, like. Is that sort of the plan right now is like, I just want to have max out my coaching clients with these 90 day plans and that's as far as I want to look forward.

[00:20:16] Dustin: Or do you have even more foresight and where you're going to do with your own business?

[00:20:19] Joe: Yeah, look, I think, joining your group program has been really interesting for me as an eye opener, as, potentially a next step, , the group coaching dynamic could be something , , that I work on, for now, it's really, I do want to , get more, , experience under the belt on the one to one, you know, I feel I'm quite an introverted person and I'm at my best one to one, like, and I think that's also why I enjoyed podcasts.

[00:20:38] Joe: Guesting one to one conversations to me. I really, really enjoy and I thrive in. So, I think I'm just honing my craft , in that space for now, but I certainly have an eye , on a group offer. Like if it works and if it helps, , then I'd love to be able to kind of increase my impact that way. , , but we'll see.

[00:20:54] Dustin: Good. Well, I'm glad that maybe the kernel of inspiration has been planted. I'm also an introvert. It's also probably why I was drawn into podcast guesting. Not of course, not everyone who does it as an introvert, but. I think disproportionately a lot of people are, actually did a whole, podcast interview, about why this is so powerful for introverts because you basically have a great one on one conversation, get to know someone.

[00:21:14] Dustin: And later on, a bunch of people listen in, but you don't have the pressure of knowing they're all listening at once. So yeah, , let's transition Joe to a little more tactics. There's kind of two things I want to hit on. One we can hit on fairly briefly is. Inbound versus outbound. So we're going to, we're going to talk about LinkedIn strategy here.

[00:21:30] Dustin: So I hear this a lot in my own groups. I'm not a LinkedIn expert, but you know, I use LinkedIn and people meet me on LinkedIn and they're like, Oh, Hey, , teach me your ways. I'm like, well, I don't really know what I'm doing. Like, , I'm not sophisticated in , like Joe, but I think one of the misconceptions or one of the places where people lose a lot of momentum is they're posting all the time.

[00:21:48] Dustin: Maybe they're even commenting on some other people's content and they're getting followers and stuff, but they're like, , there's no money in my bank account from it. And so I think one of the misconceptions or things that you're so good at helping people overcome, even as introverts is outbound or making the ask, right?

[00:22:01] Dustin: So tell us a little bit about that dynamic, maybe what you've experienced with in your own journey or with your clients and practically , what can people do to make more money from LinkedIn if they're already on there and they're doing a good job with their content?

[00:22:12] Joe: Yeah, absolutely. Look, I think, and I think this is almost a function of the platform itself. LinkedIn who share kind of LinkedIn related services. And so you will see. A lot of hype around inbound leads and how easy they they should be to to achieve but I think for every kind of one inbound lead that you might get this There's going to be five to ten other people orbiting around you and your content that would be interested in learning more you know linkedin's a place where people work and so for me, i'm trying to find hand raisers.

[00:22:43] Joe: I think of them as hand raisers So people who are orbiting around me and i'm trying to So it's an easy, an easy situation, a comfortable situation for them , to share more , if they are interested. So I guess what I mean by hand raises, it's really, people who view your profile, obviously people , who connect with you.

[00:23:00] Joe: People who engage with your content, kind of great places to, look, new followers, that kind of stuff. So these, people have shown some level of intent. in you and, and, or your content. And so if you do it in the right way, there's nothing kind of untoward. There's nothing sleazy or cringy about being proactive , in reaching out to these hand raisers that orbit around you.

[00:23:22] Joe: So I think that's, for me, , that's one of the key, as you said, misconceptions is that I'm going to start creating content and that's job done. It's very much like the content , is a key starting point, but then as you're creating that awareness and that interest. You need to be able to, find hand raises and reach out to them.

[00:23:38] Joe: So should I, should I share kind of my, I

[00:23:40] Dustin: Yeah. I was going to say, let's dig in. We're going to close with. What type of content to use. And none of these things are kind of married, right? Like the content informs who raises their hand or engages with it. Maybe I should have done it in reverse, but you know, it's my show. We'll do it this way.

[00:23:54] Dustin: I'm really intrigued by this. So let's just paint a scenario. Someone's doing a good job. They posted on LinkedIn. They got some new followers, maybe a few people commented. Some people liked it. People are doing connection requests and Hey, really liked your Then what, you know, someone's like, yeah.

[00:24:08] Dustin: And I, and from there, I don't know how to make money from that. So yeah, give us a very, as tactical as you feel like a script or like, how do people actually transition that into a sale?

[00:24:17] Joe: Yeah, totally. So let's say someone that fits your, target audience, like views your profile and I do like a bit of a side note, I invest in LinkedIn premium. I think it's really worth it for. The ability to see everyone that's viewed your profile, that's a really high intense signal. That's something that, and then you can go and one to one message that person.

[00:24:35] Joe: So I think LinkedIn premium is a good investment for that. So let's say someone who fits your target audience views your profile. For me, the simple way to, to reach out to that person is just a message that uses what I call present commonality. So the best way I can describe this is imagine if you went to a wedding.

[00:24:52] Joe: By yourself and you get there a little bit early and you're kind of looking around and you've got to sit down somewhere and you realize that you don't know anyone else at this wedding and you have to sit next to someone you don't know. If you go and sat down next to that person and you wanted to spark a conversation, a simple thing that you might ask them would be, how do you know the bride and groom? And that kind of question makes sense because it's using this idea of present commonality. The thing that you've got in common with them is the couple that you obviously must both know. So what that looks like on LinkedIn is really The action that this hand raiser has taken. So if they viewed your profile, if they liked your post, if they commented, so you just want to really simply, with your connection request, say, hey, , hey, Dustin, thanks for checking out my profile and then I just want to hand them the microphone and just give them opportunity to say something.

[00:25:36] Joe: And I do that by saying, did anything stand out

[00:25:41] Dustin: Like that.

[00:25:42] Joe: a message as simple as that. To all those kind of hand raises and that now puts them in a comfortable position to respond. If something stood out, they will respond. This isn't 100 bulletproof. , a lot of people were just poking around and there's nothing further there, but you've at least handed them the microphone and they've got an opportunity to respond.

[00:26:00] Joe: I guess to take it one step further, let's say that they do respond and they say, yeah, you know, I loved your post about, , Alex was a recent post of yours, that went really well. I loved your post about X, Y, Z, I love your content, like whatever it might be. Ideally to get into a position where you may be able to have a commercial conversation.

[00:26:18] Joe: Ideally, you want to try and pull out it. a specific point of feedback. So the next message from there you might send could be, , glad you liked it. Thanks so much for the feedback, you know, out of interest. What in particular did you like? And that simple message, like it's amazing the amount of times that someone will respond with a really clear pain point or a problem or a challenge that they've been facing that you've helped them with, through your content.

[00:26:42] Joe: And that then starts to open up. Either further discovery so you can start asking more direct messages to unpack what, , they might share. Well, yeah, it's a really important issue for us. , we're trying to uncover more leads for our marketing agency at the moment, or we just can't, X, Y, Z, whatever the issue might be, and you're then in a position to learn more, ask more questions, learn a little bit more about , what they're facing.

[00:27:03] Joe: And whenever you feel that kind of the time is right, you could then, , Pivot to either a quick call some other method of following that process further.

[00:27:11] Dustin: So I heard there was a process, a framework, but also a very human approach. Like it's, you and I talked, , in our program, AI is a cool thing, and it's got its role for content creation and stuff like that. But I think where people go overboard is all this becomes automated. It sounds. Do she, and it sounds , like you can smell it a mile away sort of thing, whereas what you're describing is you're not talking to everyone, you're looking at someone who is your ideal client profile, who has engaged with you, you got these one, two punch of signals.

[00:27:42] Dustin: The signal leads to a direct message that is very conversational and connecting with them as a, , what we call relational anchor, like. Hey, , what's it about my post or and notice we're both from the same college or something, right? There's some point of commonality that you're pointing out.

[00:27:57] Dustin: And then it's just a human conversation that is really directed at constantly asking them out of curiosity, like more about them and what they're up to and what their goals are, what they need. And then only if appropriate, do you ultimately say that's actually what I help people with. If you're open to it, I'd love to have a chat and see if I can help you.

[00:28:15] Dustin: I mean, did I kind of summarize like that's we're talking about a funnel, that's kind of the funnel, right? , and he's nodding around along, vigorously. So if you're listening to the audio, that's a yes. And so that's awesome. And then the last thing I want to talk about here with the hand raiser idea is what you described or what I would call my passive hand raisers, like they're observational.

[00:28:31] Dustin: Like Joe is checking to see who's viewed his profile. Obviously you're going to see your comments and those are great places and say, who is this person? Oh, they're actually my ideal client. Let's see if we have a conversation. Where do you, and if it's never, that's fair, but where do you see like what I would call more outbound hand raisers?

[00:28:47] Dustin: Like I wrote a really good post. I feel really good about it. At the end it says, DM me if you have a question about this or DM me if you want this free resource I put together on this topic where it's very overt that they're reaching out because they want your help. Is that part of your strategy too?

[00:29:00] Joe: Yeah, so I think , that's another key thing that a lot of people miss when it comes to creating content is not that call to action, like missing that call to action, making that, that ask. So absolutely from a, you know, as part of your content and I talk of. Of three types of posts you need, which we can probably get into.

[00:29:16] Joe: But I think roughly one every 10 posts, , one every eight to 10 posts. You want to have a really clear, specific ask in there. , talk about your offer, talk about who it's for, talk about how it helps. Ideally share some social proof or a great client result. And at the end of that, have , that super simple call to action.

[00:29:34] Joe: , send me a DM with info. And I'll send you some more details. I think that's super important.

[00:29:39] Dustin: I didn't intend to do it, but it actually made a perfect transition because I wanted to ask before we obviously let people know about you and where to find you to work with you and let you do your call to action. The last thing I want to hit on was more content. So we kind of talked about. Hey, you got some content on LinkedIn.

[00:29:54] Dustin: It's working. People are interacting with it. How do you transition that to a sale? Let's back up to step one right before that, which you just started to with the three types of content. Let's talk about what types of content works well on linked in. You got a framework for that. It sounds like you do.

[00:30:06] Dustin: You said there's three post types, and I know you and I have talked a lot about quit trying to create a bunch of content from scratch. Like you've got all these sources with your clients and, the work you're already doing that you can actually have better content that comes more naturally.

[00:30:17] Dustin: So tell us about where do you,, recommend your client source content and , what would be a good posting cadence for those three types? I

[00:30:24] Joe: Yeah. So when I was, in the thick of that content factory, producing a lot of content for clients, kind of spending all my creative energy delivering content for others, and that would come to my own, like creating content for myself. I was just feeling drained and with ghostwriting clients, like I had a transcript, an interview, I had something to start with for content when it came to my own content, I was staring at this blank page and I, I realized that there had to be a better way, like they just had to be something I was missing and what I soon realized was. The best content, the most effective, engaging content for your target audience, it's not created from scratch. It's just found in the interactions that you're already having with customers and with prospects. And that mindset for me made content creation so much easier and faster. I knew where to start.

[00:31:12] Joe: I realized I had all these places to go looking, , hunting for content. So in discovery calls, like in sales calls or however you reference them in delivery calls, where you're actually, whether it's coaching or delivering the service, the offer that you provide, those questions that clients or prospects are asking you to the roadblocks that they face, , the challenges that you know that they face, , the content that even got them into the.

[00:31:35] Joe: conversation with you as well like stuff that you know works that your audience is thinking and talking about and responding to that's where you want to harvest content find content rather than trying to create it from scratch.

[00:31:47] Dustin: like that.

[00:31:48] Joe: Yeah so once you start looking once you start with this mindset of find content rather than write it or create it. You'll start to spot it everywhere you look, and you kind of build this almost this flywheel effect. So you deliver for a client, get some great results, those results turn into nice social proof that can become a new piece of content to find the next client. So you, build this virtuous cycle, this flywheel, and for me , in the content factory, I was spending a lot less time and my content was becoming more, much more effective as well , I wasn't trying to make up stuff that would be interesting.

[00:32:18] Joe: , it was purely harvesting what was already there. So I think that's my kind of philosophy to content creation. And if you're facing writer's block, if you're feeling like you're throwing spaghetti at the wall, you've got no idea what to write about next, I would suggest go into your AI note taker, , the last conversations that you had with prospects or with clients and see what you can pull out from there.

[00:32:37] Dustin: I love that. And two little tactics to throw in there and stuff that works for me in real time. Like what I've literally been doing as, recently out of the new year, one thing I actually do, maybe this is quirky. I don't know. I look on my phone at my photos . Because I took a selfie someplace or something happened with my family and I'm just

[00:32:50] Dustin: scrolling through it.

[00:32:51] Dustin: And I'm like, what's a business lesson I learned in this or what's a story around this? ? What did I capture in this moment? And a lot of times that inspires the post the other thing, which you mentioned the hormone thing. I'm not as good about. Posting on other people's content, but of course, that's part of the strategy of linkedin, but when you do that, one of the things you can do is look for the same signals on other people's content.

[00:33:10] Dustin: Right? So when I post on the hermosi thing, I posted a fairly controversial response. It was very real. I did it in the airport. Get ready to get on a plane. And when I landed, I had like hundreds of people that had liked it and commented on his post. So the first thing I thought was before my next plane, I'm going to copy exactly what I put, take a screenshot of his post on my own profile.

[00:33:28] Dustin: And now it's, yeah, it's my most viral post today. It's like 250, 000 views, 600 comments. And all I did was pay attention. Hey, people. Like this or don't like it, but they're responding to it. And so I think just having, I think the main thing that Joe said there, that really stuck with me is having a mindset of observation and realize that you're already creating tons of content with all the day to day conversations, client work, prospecting, pay attention to it and capture it somewhere.

[00:33:51] Dustin: And then you're not starting from scratch. The last thing I, you have to close this loop for me because you opened it as the three types of posts. So like,, tell us a little more about that and then we'll close with how to get ahold of you and work with you.

[00:34:01] Joe: Yeah, absolutely. So look, the three types of posts that I think. that just form a kind of holistic, easy to follow content strategy. The first is an awareness type post. And really, the goal of that is to grow your audience. So that is going to be like when you're scrolling through the photo album, a personal story led post is typically how that will play out.

[00:34:20] Joe: And it's designed to be easy to engage with for a wide audience. So you're not necessarily talking to specifically to your target audience, but it might be a challenge from your business or a fail that you had or why you're in business today. It's going to be a story. Flavored post, I guess. So that would be an awareness post.

[00:34:36] Joe: And I reckon roughly one in three posts, you want to try and share some form of a story , especially if you're a solopreneur or you're running a small business, , you and your personal brand and the connections, the stories that you can share is really unique valuable.

[00:34:48] Joe: That's your advantage. So you want to lean into that, , the second layer of , , your content strategy and where you want to spend most of your time, I think is that builds trust, so it educates your audience and demonstrates your expertise. So you're starting to narrow that funnel.

[00:35:03] Joe: You're talking more specifically to your target audience. So it's, the kind of content that not everyone's going to be interested in, but your target audience will be interested in. And so things that kind of fall in, in that category, I would say it might be like a simple framework that you apply for your clients or a tip that you give them, or a really common question.

[00:35:20] Joe: that clients ask you about. You might break down like how you achieved a result for a client, or how you, help your target audience solve a problem that they're facing. So you're trying to position yourself as the expert with a solution. Someone who knows the problem that your target audience is facing and you've got answers to that problem.

[00:35:37] Joe: And I reckon you want to spend a good, like at least 50 percent , of your content in trying to build . That presence and that kind of thought leadership and that that expertise And the last post which is the one that we talked about first, which is that making an offer So and this can be I think this can be the same post like if your offer doesn't change This can be the same post that you post every month or on a regular cadence and it's just break down that core offer You know what's included what transformation it delivers some of the other results that it's delivered for clients crispy strong call to action at the end And don't assume that people know how to work with you or how they can find you or what next step to take, like just handed to them on a silver platter on a regular basis, probably once a month, , one every 8 to 10 posts .

[00:36:19] Joe: If you want to work with me, here's what I do. Here's what I do it with. And here's how you can be next. I guess is a summary. And those three posts that those three kind of, obviously there's a lot of flavors you can, mix and match in there. But, That kind of framework I think , ,

[00:36:32] Dustin: Actually, that's like a, that's a mic drop because I think if I'm thinking about this myself, I'm like, I do way too much awareness stuff, right? I can't remember the last time I actually wrote something that made it clear on what I do and how to work with me.

[00:36:43] Dustin: And then it's probably times I over index, because we have this cohort coming up. So then I have 4 posts in a row about testimonials and how to work with us. But I love this Framework of 35 percent awareness, 50 percent trust, education, focused on your ideal client and in 10 or 15 percent and offer.

[00:36:58] Dustin: And what I really liked with there, if you find a post that works and people respond to in some way, just keep using it once a month, right? Like,, have that in your schedule to just reuse it because we know it works. Joe, obviously, you've demonstrated your linkedin expertise and through your own story, you've demonstrated you.

[00:37:13] Dustin: Transition into a full time successful solopreneur. And now you're investing in yourself and growing here in the new year with that. So,, and when listening, they're like, I need some more Joe McKay in my life. What's the best way to get ahold of you? Or what's the next best step for people?

[00:37:26] Joe: Yeah, next best step would be, join my newsletter. When you sign up to that, you get my LinkedIn playbook which covers all the stuff we talked about today and heaps more. So, you can find that at, at joemckay. info. That's J O E M C K A Y. I send out my best insights kind of once a week, and within that, of course, you'll find a way to find me on linked in the big blue box, big blue box where I hang out a lot.

[00:37:54] Dustin: love that. So joe mckay. info. So you can see in, In real time, he's got a clear call to action. One thing to do, no matter what you take away from this interview and you're like, I need to like talk to him about LinkedIn or hire him as a ghostwriter. I want to take a solopreneur coaching. I just want these playbooks.

[00:38:10] Dustin: Cause like the little bit he had time to share here was super insightful as it was for me. I got to go over to joe mckay. info and get some more of that. So Joe, you're awesome, man. I'm really looking forward to continuing our journey and, and watching you grow here in 2025. And we appreciate you taking the time to unpack.

[00:38:25] Dustin: Your, your entrepreneurial spirit and the, and what drives you and, and just being so transparent about like where you've been with your offers and, and where you're at today. I think people are going to get a ton of value. I know that I have, and yeah, just grateful, grateful to call you a friend and a client and, and someone that I'm learning a ton from when it comes to solopreneurship and, and LinkedIn specifically.

[00:38:44] Dustin: So thanks for being here.

[00:38:45] Joe: Likewise, Dustin. Thank you for having me. It's it's really cool journey that we're on together for a little while.

[00:38:50] Dustin: Absolutely.