Why Your Process Is Broken (And How to Fix It Before You Scale) with Vern McCarty

[00:00:00] Nick: Uh, great to have you on the Seven Figure Podcast. I'm super excited, man. I wanna start straight in because as we were getting ready to start recording here, we're talking about a trip you just took with your family and it, which is really aligned for me about being a seven figure advisor. It's like being on that journey, uh, but also making sure that you spend that time with your family, look after yourself, and, and have that holistic approach.

[00:00:23] Nick: You went on a road trip as well. Uh, but tell us about. That experience and, and the extra piece that you just mentioned as well, in terms of the challenge that you made for yourself to come through that.

[00:00:35] Vern: Yeah. Well, it's a pleasure to be here, Nick. Thanks for having me. I'm really excited. Um, yeah, man, I mean, I often say to my friends, my family, my clients, you know, I, I do this for my family and I do it for other families, you know, that's what I do it for. Everything's about family for me. And, uh, yeah, it's super important for me to set time aside and make sure we're really intentional about spending time together.

[00:00:58] Vern: Luckily, I have teenage kids, a beautiful wife. We love going on road trips. We love spending time together. We love to travel. And so, uh, we're up here in Alberta, Canada and we drove down to Vegas. Uh, took a nice road trip over a few days and, uh, I think it would be about maybe a few days or a week before we left.

[00:01:18] Vern: I'd have to check for sure the calendar, but I've decided, uh, to just give up drinking for a while. And I, I have a, a, a tentative date for Christmas New Year, uh, Christmas Eve, but I'm not, that's not written in stone anywhere. We'll, we'll see. I might not even want to drink then, but you know, it, it's just something that I wanted to do so that I could focus on my family, I could focus on business, focus on health, and I just noticed that it was becoming a bit more of a distraction for me.

[00:01:46] Vern: I don't know if you've ever experienced that or people listen and experienced it, but it was just a distraction and I was kind of like, why am I. What's my motivation? Like why am I, you know, I go to dinner and have a few drinks. Why do I have to have a few drinks when I go to dinner or I go to a social setting, play poker with my friends?

[00:01:58] Vern: I'm like, it's just like a constant, and maybe that's a Canadian thing, but it's a constant like, oh yeah, let's get some drinks. You know, it's always drinks, right? And you know, I'm getting older, Matt. It doesn't feel as good as it used to when you wake up in the morning if you have maybe one or two too many.

[00:02:12] Vern: So I was just like it. It was kind of distracting me from other things. So I'm like, you know what? I'm just gonna set that aside. And so I just mentioned that we took the road trip. We're going in Vegas. Going to Vegas. So I spent an entire week in Vegas with my family and I didn't drink a drop of alcohol.

[00:02:27] Vern: We went to some really nice restaurants. We went to some shows. We did all the stuff and no alcohol. And, um, I, I guess I didn't really realize how much more present I am without any kind of alcohol in those little moments that you, that you maybe not even aware of, that you have with your kids, with your wife, the experience, whatever you're doing.

[00:02:50] Vern: Just not having any kind of, uh, what's the word I'm looking for? Just a, a mental, you're just totally present and clear versus, you know, being a little bit cloudy. So it was, it was an amazing trip and, uh, I'm pretty motivated. I'm, I'm pretty inspired to keep going.

[00:03:03] Nick: That's so cool. So cool, man. Yeah, that I wanna touch on that, that piece because you know, Mike. Uh, quite a bit. Uh, but I think it's still relevant based on age.

[00:03:16] Vern: You, you're, I don't know if it's on my end, but your, your audio is cutting in and out a little bit. It.

[00:03:24] Nick: a second. So it's really interesting me when it comes to that presence you talked about with, with kids. My, my kids are younger than yours, and so it has even more impact. I think it's a function of age as well. Now what really struck me recently is putting my 4-year-old in the back of my truck and putting her, like helping her buckle a seatbelt and, and I'm in there, I'm thinking about other things and maybe I'm looking at the, for I'm doing it, and that's just nothing to me.

[00:03:51] Nick: Like, it's just like the day, like part of the day. Right. It's not nothing negatively. Uh, it's just, it's just, I don't even think about it because, you know, we've, we've had so many rotations of that stuff, you know, like being an adult, but for her. The day is much more distinctive. Each part of the day is much more distinctive because she experiencing those things. Me taking the time to look at her own, like, I don't know for sure, but like that she can remember that between, and that could be the difference between when she grows up thinking about my dad was attentive to me versus. So thanks for sharing that. Uh, because they, the whole trip versus of, of attentiveness, like it makes a big difference.

[00:04:37] Nick: And I mean, it's, it's so interesting. I think about, I talk to my, my parents about things that I remember when I grew up versus what they remember completely different. So that impact is huge.

[00:04:49] Vern: Well, I'll just share for you and, and for your listeners, not that I'm, you know, some old wise guy, expert dad, but my kids are 15 and 17 and we, luckily we have, we have really good conversations and I talk to 'em a lot about when they were a kid and things that I think about and things that maybe I regret or wish I did better.

[00:05:06] Vern: And, and, and you're exactly right. The things that they remember and the things that impact them are not the same things that you think about and that you remember, but the fact that you're that present to those kind of things, those little things really matter. Being with your kids and paying attention and all that, that, that is really, really important.

[00:05:21] Vern: So you're present to that. That's you're way ahead of the game,

[00:05:25] Nick: I wonder, we're talking about kids for being part of a Rebel Dads organization.

[00:05:30] Vern: right.

[00:05:30] Nick: Shout out to re dads, uh, uh, to, to Adam and Derek. Uh, everyone should check that out. Uh, our, our EB dads, uh, super cool. So tie back to business because what you went on to start to say was that actually when you got back from that trip.

[00:05:47] Nick: Threw yourself back in the deep end. You went to a four day advisor conference as well. And like, make the distinction between what that's looked like in the past for you versus what it is now. And like the overlay is the alcohol thing. Uh, but I I also, for other things like intentionality and focus, you could still get those things perhaps without that being the primary driver of it.

[00:06:06] Nick: But tell us the, the, the juxtaposition between those experiences.

[00:06:11] Vern: Yeah. Again, I'm assuming based on your, your likely your audience, you know, pe most people have some experience of what it's like having gone to some conference or an advisor conference. If you're in the industry, it's no secret that, you know, everyone's like at the event and they're, we know exactly what's gonna happen afterwards, right?

[00:06:27] Vern: People are going to dinner. There's maybe some kind of a social thing, but the it, but it's, it's drinks, right? Lots of drinking going on and you know, there's all the cliches and the jokes of people who showed up the next day on the, you know, we start on Sunday night, people show up on the Monday and they're like, oh yeah, I got to my room at like a couple hours before my alarm type of thing.

[00:06:45] Vern: And I'm like, oh my word, you know? And so normally, you know, I, I would be, you know, you go there and you're only seeing these people one time per year. So you're going there to get the lessons. You're going there to get the continuing education credits, but then you're also going there to connect with your mates and be social and have a good time.

[00:07:02] Vern: And so, you know, this year is the first year that, you know, I was, I was that guy who, you know, went out for a dinner, maybe had a, had a non-alcoholic, a zero proof beer or whatever, had a nice dinner. I'm back at the room by nine, I'm resting up, I go to bed. And I, you know, I don't really sleep well in hotel rooms, but that's a different story.

[00:07:19] Vern: And I get, get to the conference, I'm there before the doors are open. Right. And you know, I was telling you before the podcast, like normally I'd be like rushing and texting a friend, being like, Hey man, save me a seat. Make sure I have a place to sit. Right. So I, I think that I actually was able, I mean, obviously I was able to pull a lot more value outta the, the speakers and the events themselves too, like just being more present.

[00:07:40] Vern: I, I think that's the, the overtone I was able to really connect with a lot of messaging that. Who knows, I might've, I might've missed some of these things if I was in a different state of mind. So, uh, just that focus.

[00:07:52] Nick: Its also great to be. Slow things down. I think how that's how we do it because as we, the older we get, the, the more successful our businesses are, the more responsibility we have, the, the big we build our family or the people that we support and impact, the faster things go. And so if we can, the more present we can be, the more focused on the specifics and the smaller things that actually how we slow things down and our experience of time.

[00:08:17] Nick: So I think that's a huge, huge distinction. Frank, share a little bit, if you would, fern, about the context of what your business is. And most of our, our listeners probably be on the US side, Europe, up and Canada. There's some differences of where things are. Uh, look at me coming from Englishman, the Englishman in North Carolina, of course. Uh.

[00:08:40] Vern: I hate.

[00:08:42] Nick: That's right. That's right. Right. But I, I've got, I've got the thing where I do two things, right? Because I, like, I, I wanna, I wanna honor both of those. And so if I'm describing something, I'll say, well, this is how we do this in England. But I'd also say, well, this is how we do it in America. So I'm, I'm we both sides.

[00:08:55] Nick: Yeah. Uh, that's, that's my, that's always my plan to honor everyone. Um, but yeah. Tell us about your, your, your business. Uh, you would care to share. And I, I, I love. Your your story in that because, because of the, the team aspect which going, I'm sure you.

[00:09:17] Vern: Yeah, sure. So again, you know, I don't exactly know how things work, uh, in the US from a licensing perspective and, and all that kind of stuff. In Canada, it, it's you, you could specialize, you know, in stocks and investment banking and all that kind of stuff. Or if you get into financial services in general, you can get obviously different dis uh, designations and all that.

[00:09:36] Vern: But generally people can do some investment work and they can do some insurance work. I gravitated toward the insurance industry, so I, I focus heavily on. Life insurance, uh, what we call living benefits, so critical illness, disability, sort of that type of protection and, you know, long-term planning, estate planning, and I, and what I'd like to do, I like to sort of view myself as a bit of a liaise, a bit of, a bit of a concierge, if you will, a bit of a quarterback for their plan.

[00:10:04] Vern: I really focus on the relationship. So if I'm not the guy for their accounting, like legal advice, maybe investment advice, I like to build relationships with other professionals and then sort of guide my clients in the right direction based on their overall kind of game plan. And uh, one of the primary things that we focus on is, is what we like to call the living benefits of life insurance.

[00:10:25] Vern: So I do a lot of whole life insurance and we use that whole life insurance policy as sort of a savings tool. And then we actually use those policies while people are alive and then obviously after they're gone. So it's sort of a, uh, it's not just a, Hey, you gotta die to win. Actually, I'll do a little shameless plug for this great book right here.

[00:10:41] Vern: This is a Canadian, Canadian book, but it, it literally is titled You Don't Have To Die to Win. So he talks about, you know, all the other financial instruments that are out there, but how you can benefit from using life insurance while you're alive, which is, which is pretty cool. And so that's kind of the, the core of, of what I do in terms of bringing value to my clients.

[00:10:58] Vern: And, and if you have some questions about. How my team is structured and, and what I do to allow myself to kind of focus more on the client versus all the busy work. 'cause I probably don't need to tell you that in this industry, that's one of the biggest challenges is there's a lot of busy work that is super necessary, but it doesn't necessarily bring value to the client and it doesn't generate revenue.

[00:11:18] Vern: And that's a huge challenge.

[00:11:21] Nick: I, I like to think about what, how does that affect a planner or an advisor, depending on what you call yourself, what that looks like, depending on where they're in the business, right? First couple of years just getting your feet under you, eight to 10 years in getting, going, building a team, 20 years plus, what does it look like?

[00:11:39] Nick: And, and so I, I, I think all of that stuff is such important thing to think about. What, where for you, uh, perhaps past that initial like, oh, this is real for me. I do think of it like a business, not a job. It like actually is rolling. Where do you see that first next step up in, in terms of what push through, uh, in order to get to that next level of success in context with that busy work.

[00:12:04] Vern: Yeah. Uh, this kind of ties into those, one of those, Hey, what would you have done differently type of things, right. And I think in this industry it might be, it's like, I call it psychological warfare, right? They say the loneliest place to be is in your mind, in your office, sitting in your

[00:12:19] Nick: That's right. That's right.

[00:12:20] Vern: And one of my mentors always used to say to me, he'd say all the time, he'd say, Vern activity absorbs anxiety.

[00:12:28] Vern: Activity absorbs anxiety, activity, activity, activity, right? So I'd get caught up, you know, 10 11, 2:00 PM 10 11 in the morning, or 2:00 PM Here I am doing some type of administration work. Well, when you're early in the business, look, the reality of it is if you want to be successful, I don't know any other way, you gotta put in more time.

[00:12:48] Vern: Particularly in the early in the business, right? So I would structure yourself so that you're doing that busy work, either on a very specific day or early in the morning before meetings start, or in the evening after meetings are done, and, and, and, you know, try to focus on activity and seeing people during the day when, when people are available to be seen.

[00:13:10] Vern: If you have to get up a little earlier on a Saturday, if you have kids, like I used to do that sometimes I'd get up early in the morning before my kids were up and I would take care of some things so that I could be clear and focused with them and present and not thinking about that stuff while I was with them.

[00:13:21] Vern: So I would say those types of things that are, that are not bringing value to clients and that are not bringing any value to you in terms of revenue, do those on the off hours and then focus on your clients. Um, when, when you should be, and then as you kind of grow, um, this is kind of scary for a lot of younger people in the business.

[00:13:39] Vern: Maybe even if you're really successful and you're really hands-on, you want to control everything. But I would say, um, the sooner you can, um, what's the word I'm looking for? Delegate or or hand those responsibilities off to somebody else. The sooner you can get yourself, we call it a strategic assistant, the sooner you can get yourself an assistant.

[00:14:00] Vern: Uh, I would invest in that immediately because if it costs you, I don't know what it would cost you there, like cost you 60 to 80 grand a year. Well, if you, people are like, oh my gosh, that's a lot. Well, what if you invest 60 to 80 grand a year to make 200? That's a pretty good trade off. And if I can add to that, just because you never know where people are coming from, understand that the most valuable person in your business is your assistant.

[00:14:28] Vern: Abso freaking. goes without my assistant. She controls everything and, and, and we work together. She holds me accountable. Uh, you, you know, I coach and guide her to be able to bring more value to clients and get, get strategic. That's why we call it a strategic assistant. She literally helps me generate revenue, like how she communicates with clients.

[00:14:48] Vern: I've had countless clients reach out to me and go, Verne, your assistant is amazing. She's a huge value add. She's super helpful. Like. You know, it's gonna make you look good as an advisor too, but that person is really, really important. I've had days, I kid you not where I'm a human being. I will message my assistant in the morning and I'll just be like, listen, I am feeling overwhelmed.

[00:15:10] Vern: I am a little bit tired. I got a loaded day and I don't got it today. And she'll be like, Hey, no, you got this. Listen, one step at a time, one task at a time. I will do my best to keep you, keep everything else off your plate. Like she filters my emails. She, I, we have text messages that come in from clients.

[00:15:30] Vern: She'll answer and respond to those text messages. She only messages me with the things that she can't respond to or that are maybe a 9 1 1 or, or whatever, right? So she's doing her best to filter as much of that information so that I'm focused on the client. So she goes way above and beyond, quote the, you know, the job description in terms of how she brings value to me and to the client.

[00:15:49] Vern: So your assistant is super important. It's not just. Anybody that can do that, or just a job like that person is critically important to your business.

[00:15:58] Nick: Sounds like you have a real A player. A player. How long has she been with you?

[00:16:02] Vern: So I, I, I got super lucky because I worked with my original assistant. Shout out to Ashley, if you ever hear this. Uh, uh, she's amazing. I think I worked with her for two to three years. Like she was really there during my critical growth years, and we became very close. And then as when sometimes when you have really good people, unfortunately they grow too.

[00:16:22] Vern: So she got a promotion and, but what she did, because she cared about me so much and she wanted to help her family, is she actually got her sister-in-law hired who, it was almost like a clean handoff. Uh, Melissa is amazing and I've been working with Melissa now for about a year. So Ashley and Melissa we're both, uh, instrumental to, to my growth and, and, and success.

[00:16:44] Nick: Yeah. So those couple of stars you've had two, two times in a row with your assistants, so very important Of course. What context would you give to either someone trying to get that first assistant? Strategic assistant for me feels like an elevated version of it because I love that. Um. Not that having an unstrategic assistant is not valuable, right, because you, you've gotta start somewhere.

[00:17:07] Nick: But, so would you say that in context of that first assistant, maybe that second assistant, how, how important is it just to, to get it going, the context of work? 60 grand to get it going? Some people might be in a place where they just haven't pulled that trigger yet, and they could do that, but it also might be that either it's the first assistant where they're like, ah, I can't even do that.

[00:17:30] Nick: How, what, how can I buy just some hours? Can I buy 10 hours a week and, and reinvest that? Or even if the second assistant can I, can I have someone come into my business that isn't even a full-time person? Maybe they're a contractor or a vendor. Like, tell me about how to navigate that.

[00:17:46] Vern: A Absolutely. That's, that's a really good question. So for context, I did have an assistant for a while. You know, nothing against her. God bless her. But it was, it was very clear and easy to tell that she was, um, it was just a job for her. It was like, get through the day, do the least amount of that I can and, and that's it.

[00:18:05] Vern: Right? So I would say recognize that as early as possible. Give this some coaching, give this some correction. If they take the coaching and, and they take the correction and they take the action, great. If you notice that whole thing two or three times, I would say. Uh, what is it? Uh, hire slow, fire fast, right?

[00:18:23] Vern: Um, now what I don't have a lot of experience with, admittedly, but I know there's a lot of, uh, options out there for like virtual assistants. You can buy a certain amount of hours. Uh, even in the early going, you know, it all comes down to having good communication and good. Um. In, in early going, like, I know there's, there's, I don't personally have experience with this, but there is lots of options for like a va, a virtual assistant.

[00:18:49] Vern: And from what I understand with those platforms, you can buy blocks of time. You can have, you can kind of work your way up. You know, this goes without saying, but one of the things that I would recommend for advisors is, I dunno if you ever heard of a model called Profit First. But it, you don't need to go too deep into it.

[00:19:04] Vern: Like, look, don't spend everything you make. Put your money aside for taxes. Put money aside for your operating expense. Put money aside for your remuneration to pay yourself and whatever other expenses. Right? And then you could. You know, I don't know how it works there, but again, if it's commission or a certain salary or whatever, every case that you close, take a certain percentage aside and put that aside for growth so that you can hire an assistant and, and make sure you have six months to a year worth of expense to pay that person so that if you don't close a case that week, you're not panicking about, like, I can't pay my assistant, but.

[00:19:37] Vern: Um, yeah. And then, you know, one thing I, I would say that you can also do generally, you know, friends, family, your, you know, who knows, right? Your best friend's wife. Maybe they want a little part-time gig. Maybe they're not licensed or whatever yet. Oh, that's another key point. I'm all over the place here, but eventually if you can get your assistant to actually get their license, for me it would be like their life insurance license.

[00:20:00] Vern: It just allows them to do so many more things and access so much more information and sign things on your behalf. It, it just makes it so much easier from a service perspective. But it, but again, building up to it, like maybe you can just work out, Hey, 15, 20 hours a week, look, X amount of dollars. They have a little bit of flexibility in their schedule and they can help you just manage your schedule or maybe some of the communications, or maybe they're not doing everything, but they're taking off some of that workload.

[00:20:24] Vern: And then as you build it up and, and, but I would say again, as soon as you can get yourself an assistant or some help with that busy work, invaluable.

[00:20:33] Nick: There's no, there's no advisor or planner that I've talked to that doesn't agree with that. And whether it's the first one, second one, the third one, those the tactics to apply to, it's so important. But I've gotta come back to what you said, right? Especially early on. It's a business. It's not the, the money that you are getting paid is not your salary.

[00:20:52] Nick: Like you've got a business, don't spend everything you've got. And, and that really applies again, when you're first starting out, it's important to think about. But wherever you are going along, if you thinking about as I'm allocating these funds, what, what's allocating to go back into the business? As soon as you take a dollar outta the business, yeah, you could do stuff with it personally, but you're more likely to spend it when you're in the business.

[00:21:13] Nick: Like the dollar can be multiplied once it's out, it's like a dead dollar. So if the, the more dollars you keep in the business, the more that you can make in the business with those dollars.

[00:21:21] Vern: Well, I mean there, there are people who are, um, fee for service. The way that my contract works, the way that I'm structured, the life insurance companies pay me per pay me commission. Well, I always tell my clients this, like, look, I have skin in the game. I'm really careful who I do business with because.

[00:21:37] Vern: If you buy a policy today or I, I show you a solution and you like it, and you're like, yeah, let's go. Fantastic. We close the case. I give you coaching and guidance, and for whatever reason, whether you don't like me or you just, God forbid, lost your job, you can't fund your system, whatever it is, 18 months from now, you cancel your policy.

[00:21:55] Vern: I get to pay back 100% of my commission, 100% immediately. So make sure you have, if, if you're in that situation, minimum capital surplus reserve. Like go look at how a life insurance company manages their money and do the same thing. Put money aside in case there's a chargeback. And if you don't have the commission to cover it that week, you gotta pay that right away.

[00:22:16] Vern: Or they'll, they'll take your contract, like have that ready to go. Don't mess with the golden goose.

[00:22:23] Nick: Man, that is gold. I love the skin in the game as well. That's, that's an important way to think about it. Uh, what, what you talked about, you know, earlier about some of the challenges, some of the things you've gone through as well. What would you say is something that you do, you've seen that most advisors aren't doing?

[00:22:39] Nick: What's something that, that you've seen that's successful for you? That's just obvious. I mean, because we all have those things where just some things come easy, uh, and, and, and it's sometimes not that obvious that that other people will have challenges in those areas. So what, what might you say for you that you do that, that most don't?

[00:22:58] Vern: Oh gosh. You know when I say Mo most, I mean, keep in mind again, you know we got the baby boom going on, right? When we were at this event, they just said in the next, what was it, by 2030, I think it was like, I can't remember a huge, I can't remember the stats. A huge amount of advisors are gonna turn 65 right now.

[00:23:17] Vern: Granted, this is becoming more and more frequent with the younger generations and some older people are embracing it. But man, you, you gotta embrace technology and, and I'm not a tech savvy guy, but embracing technology, whether that is some type of automation, um, you know, texting, talk to your clients and get feedback from them and find out how they like to communicate.

[00:23:37] Vern: How do they like to learn? I mean, this seems like table stakes, right? But then be really straight with them about how you communicate. I tell my clients straight. I go, look, if you need to get ahold, like if you wanna hear from me today, send me a text message. It's just what it is. If you send me an email, I think of that as, hey, 24 to 48 hours.

[00:23:54] Vern: It's just what it is for me. It's my lowest form of communication, but I'm just honest with them about it. If this isn't super important, shoot me an email. If you want to hear from me today, shoot me a text. It's as simple as that. Just tell 'em straight. Right. Um, and then the other thing that I would say too is, um, you know, I'm, I'm about to, I'm in a bit of a transition here.

[00:24:11] Vern: I'm about to launch my own brand because I, you know, spent many years here building a really big team, you know, inside a team representing their brand. And now I'm stepping out to build my own. And one of the things that we did to build this team and to become known and to bring in a, a ton of high quality leads and, and be able to attract the people that we wanted and repel the people we didn't want, and them to really know what to expect when they got here was we do a lot of content.

[00:24:36] Vern: You know, like it doesn't take anything, you don't have to be a fricking wizard or, you know, to do a little bit of social media and a like YouTube, start a YouTube channel or something like that. Maybe get a little bit of help from somebody. Whether it's editing or somebody who can give you some advice on how to set up your YouTube channel or something.

[00:24:51] Vern: But, but get online, man. That's where people are. So, um, those are some things that I would recommend.

[00:24:58] Nick: Love it. So first of all, communication, communication, communication. Set up the expectations on the front end. What's the value? Hey, client, what do you like? This is why I prefer, let's get clear about that. Let's not make any assumptions. Then, uh, building a team through the team, being able to bring in tons of leads.

[00:25:15] Nick: It's being able to make content, some sort of marketing, getting out there dripping to your prospects and just pushing out there as well. You know, my experience that is like, it's great to sharpen the sword as well. Like, it's just, it's fun to do that in a way. You, you wanna, wanna do, what would you say, um, for a team, let's, let's just say couple hundred million under management, maybe there's one lead advisor, two or three others.

[00:25:38] Nick: Two or three in a team overall. Haven't really built their, their business organically through how they started and, uh, and referrals. And I wanna ask you about that in, in a second, but what if they're thinking about going down that marketing road? They're not really doing anything in that spot right now.

[00:25:54] Nick: Um, what would you say would be the first foray to do that? You mentioned starting a YouTube channel, but what would you say is, like, what's the important part, uh, for that marketing piece in, you know, in that example?

[00:26:05] Vern: Well, I'm gonna, I'm gonna, maybe, hopefully this answers the question. And again, to your point, this might be table stakes, but I don't wanna make any assumptions. I see so many, so much content where people are trying to be a certain way. They're trying to do something. They're trying to convey a message.

[00:26:23] Vern: Well, I'm not a big Star Wars guy, but there is no try. There is only do. Right? You could, hopefully you can tell by me being this, this is me, man. This is me. This is how I am, this is how I am with my clients. This is how I am on content, this is how I am with my kids. This is how I am in the grocery store. So show up and be you. The world is starving for authenticity. Everything is bs. Everything is fake. Everything is nonsense. This is a real window. This is my real background. I'm a real human being. Look, you see that? Like people want that. So in your marketing, in your content, just be you because here's the deal.

[00:27:03] Vern: Here's the deal. A problem prospect is a problem client.

[00:27:08] Nick: Hmm.

[00:27:09] Vern: you're trying to be a chameleon and you're trying to be a certain way and you're just trying to close a case or attract people to make money, you are gonna hate yourself in a few years when you're super successful and you have all kinds of money and you have a bunch of clients you don't wanna hear from.

[00:27:23] Vern: So I would just say in your marketing and your messaging, all that, be authentic and and just be real. Be, be yourself.

[00:27:31] Nick: Oh, so cool, man. Authenticity by a firm. McCarthy. McCarthy, that that's exactly it, right? Because should be the easiest thing in the world to be. Yourself.

[00:27:40] Vern: It

[00:27:41] Nick: why do you think it's attractive to not be? Because sometimes I'm sure people don't set out to go, uh, I want be something I'm not. What? Why is it, why?

[00:27:50] Nick: What's the pull to not being authentic?

[00:27:52] Vern: Y you know what? Uh, not that I'm some, some, some psychology expert or whatever, uh, but just, you know, I've had my own journey of growth, man, and, and I don't know how much time you had, but we, we can get through that. Like, it took me many, many, many years to be like, oh, like, you mean, it's that easy. I could just be myself.

[00:28:11] Vern: Like, oh, like I was always, because as a little kid, right, like you have like these little, you know, mental scar tissue that happens. Like, you know, you went to talk to a kid and they said, oh, your pants are stupid, or whatever, you know, or, or you said something and you, and you stuttered, or you spelt something wrong in front of the cla.

[00:28:29] Vern: Now all of a sudden you're like, well, I don't, I'm never gonna. Be in front of people ever again, or I need, oh gosh, I gotta make sure I never do that again. That hurt bad, right? So we, I think we just, as adults, we kind of shape ourselves and then, you know, we kind of try to be a certain way when we realize at the end of the day, we're all like foxes, right?

[00:28:47] Vern: I'm more scared of you, or you're more scared of me than I am of you, right? At the end of the day. So we're, you know, most people are more concerned about themselves and how they look and how they feel, and how they show up than anything that you're doing. You know, so at the, you know, I think that's just a, unfortunately a part of growing up.

[00:29:02] Vern: And as you get older you just realize like, oh, nobody actually really cares what I'm doing at all. And so just be yourself and be real and, and, um, I don't know what that psychology is, but, you know, I've done a lot of work in that area and, and like I said, once it kind of clicks and you go, oh, this is like way simpler than I thought it was, I could just literally be myself.

[00:29:20] Vern: And at the end of the day, it's like I tell my kids. You know, you're gonna, if you're lucky, you're gonna wind up with five, maybe five really good friends, maybe 10, right? Most people, you're not gonna marry them. Most people are not gonna be your business partner. Most people are not gonna be your best friend.

[00:29:36] Vern: And there's nothing wrong with that. It's just what it is. So you only want to be around the people that want to be around you anyway. So you're best off just to be yourself, and you'll attract what and who you are and you'll repel what you're not. And, and it, and it's like that in business too.

[00:29:51] Nick: Vern, that's gonna resonate with so many people because all the people listening to this are humans. And that, that fundamental, I believe it just comes from a protective place. And we all have that and we all have to go through the journey. There's no, there's no shortcuts, but we can get through it quicker.

[00:30:07] Nick: You know, my, my hope and part of what this, this podcast is all about is showing other, revised other planners that like, we're all in this place. And some people have gone through that part of the journey, and my hope is that we just accelerate that a little bit more. And so that's, that's absolute gold.

[00:30:20] Nick: Thanks. Thanks so much for sharing that, Vern, and putting it out there.

[00:30:24] Vern: Can. Thank you. I, I'm, I'm glad. Hopefully that brings some value to some people. It, I, I wanna share something that might again, seem like a no brainer. If it's okay with you, if I can jump in and just share something fairly quickly here, uh, to your, to your point earlier about maybe a couple hundred million under, under a management or maybe have a decent team, or maybe you're brand new in the business.

[00:30:45] Vern: And I've seen this at all levels. Something that is critically important, but I probably should have mentioned earlier when you're like, Hey, what, what maybe are some people not doing this? Or what's something that you, you could be doing? I, I did this for a really long time and it was really painful. And again, looking back, I'm like, damn, I wish I would've realized this sooner.

[00:31:02] Vern: And this is gonna probably sound silly to you, but to something maybe like, oh yeah, I gotta do that, man. Have your standard operating procedures follow a process. Whether it's right from meeting somebody all the way through to whatever it is, gathering their information, presenting them a solution, getting through the application process, onboarding the client, and then, and then serving them moving forward.

[00:31:27] Vern: It doesn't have to be the greatest process ever. And I like to follow a a, a, like a version one type of thing. Hey, here's version one of my process. Get a process. Your biggest problem, if you're not being as successful as you want or you feel confused or lost, it doesn't matter how much money you're making.

[00:31:45] Vern: I've seen people who make tons of money and they basically don't even know what they're doing. Right? And so, and you know, they, they, they look like they got it all together,

[00:31:55] Nick: Right.

[00:31:56] Vern: but they don't have a standard process that they follow. And one of my mentors used to say that to me all the time. He would say, Hey, how do you do this?

[00:32:02] Vern: How do you do that? Hey Vern, I know what your problem is. I go, what's that? He goes, you don't have a process. I had no earthly idea what he was talking about. So figure out a process or get some advice, get some coaching. Follow that process, document it, get really, really, really good at it. Even if it's a crappy process.

[00:32:20] Vern: Get really good at it. And then you just tweak little things and add layers to it. But always follow a process because it's gonna allow you to be more focused and intentional and successful with that process. But then bring new people on. Train your assistant. Do all this up because you have a process now and then if you're gonna.

[00:32:37] Vern: Basically follow all those same steps and then you tweak one thing and then you can actually beta test it and see how that went. Oh, that's way better. Or that's not good. Sometimes people wanna start at like level seven when they're at level two. Like for example, adding a YouTube channel. Well maybe make sure you have your process in place and you're able to deal with volume where you're able to deal with a client when they actually show up, what happens?

[00:33:01] Vern: All of a sudden you get all these clients and you're not even able to deal with the client 'cause you don't have a process. So maybe, you know, focus on the basics, the fundamentals, and then build, right? Don't, don't build a business on a, on a sandy foundation.

[00:33:13] Nick: It's wonderful. One of the things I hear so often is, oh, I used to do that when I was just getting started. Because when you are just getting started, you're forced to have a process 'cause you dunno what you're doing. And what have happened I see is with successful advisors, they get good at what it is and so they know it.

[00:33:31] Nick: And so there's this double-edged sword of like it's, I just know what to do. I wing it, but I know I'm really good at winging it. Like that has utility for sure. But it definitely presents going back to the going, okay, what actually are we doing here? And it becomes much harder to hand over because they're not actually thinking through the steps.

[00:33:47] Nick: They're just doing it and it's flowing out on them.

[00:33:49] Vern: Totally.

[00:33:49] Nick: but to scale, in order to scale, that really has to be written down. Uh, you heard, you heard it here, folks, like you gotta know what those SOPs are. And I was just having a conversation with the COO, uh, of a, uh, advisory company yesterday in the same way.

[00:34:03] Nick: And she was having trouble with one of the ladies in her team really understanding how to do a certain task. And I, I, I asked her to make sure that the lady that's doing this task, to actually do the documentation of it, have her bring back and show you what the steps are for success here, and that will show you that she knows what it is.

[00:34:20] Nick: And now you've got a process documented. So important man, so important. Uh, I I, I got so much gold here, van. I, I love to have you on again. I think we can keep going for a couple hours here. Uh, there's no doubt. Actually, I've gotta ask you about one thing. 'cause it's, it's always, it always comes up, uh, referrals such a prevalent thing in the business.

[00:34:38] Nick: I, I like to think about them as introductions. You talked earlier about systems and, and scale and leads generation. That's, that's really its own animal, but. How do you think about referrals? How do you what? What's important to be successful with, with referrals?

[00:34:55] Vern: Oh man, this is such a good question. Um, again, I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll beat this drum. Until the cows come home. Be authentic. Be honest. I am super blessed to say that I get a steady stream of referrals, but is that because I'm really nice and I help the client and it just happens magically Sometimes. Yeah.

[00:35:18] Vern: When I ask, I'm super intentional about asking, and this isn't about me, it's about them, and it's about the people that they surround themselves with. And I, I got this from one of my mentors. I don't know where he got it, but he uses this rhythm that he calls, give, give, give, ask, give, give, give, ask. So what I do is I, I, I, I'll, I'll share a quick story if, if you don't mind.

[00:35:42] Vern: I, I, around this time last year, actually, I noticed my, I was really busy. My calendar was full. I was seeing lots of people, and then I kept doing all the same normal stuff, and it came to a screeching halt. And I was like, oh, my calendar's pretty open next week. That's odd. Lemme just focus on some cleanup.

[00:35:57] Vern: No big deal. Cool. Kept going about my business and the next week my calendar was really open and I'm going, okay, what's going on here? Right? So, so our lead flow was slowing down a little bit. Then I was like, okay, maybe I'm too dependent on my leads. Let me, let me focus more on my existing clients because I'm, I have a lot of really good clients.

[00:36:16] Vern: Maybe this is an opportunity for me to get in touch and see where I can bring some value and see what's going on in their world. Who else in your world could benefit from the work that we've done? So I get together with people and, and I would just have, you can call it a script, but I, I just, I just have a conversation with them.

[00:36:33] Vern: Hey, Nick, tell me what's been going on in your life in the last few months? What are some big milestones? What are some wins that we can document? What's something we can focus on? Or, and, or maybe where did you get off track? Where could we give you some coaching? How could we make, take some corrective action, right?

[00:36:46] Vern: And they go, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. I go, oh, great. That's working out good. And then they're struggling with something. I share a little bit of value and I go, Hey, is that making a difference? Does that help? They're like, oh my gosh, Vern, I'm so glad we met. I go, awesome, awesome. I say, Hey, Nick, I got a question for you.

[00:37:00] Vern: What's that? If you won the lottery today, who's the first three people you'd call?

[00:37:06] Nick: Oh, that's cool. Right.

[00:37:08] Vern: If you had a catastrophic event, who are the first three people you'd call? I know that you have people in your world, Nick, that are just a yes for you. They trust you. So let's take insurance. Let's take banking. Let's take all that stuff outta the equation.

[00:37:26] Vern: And do, do, do you like hanging out with me? Do you get some value every time we meet? Yes. Okay, great. Well just tell them, Hey Nick, I like you. We've been friends for many years. You trust me. I trust you. Listen, I've been working with a guy for a few years. We do some financial stuff together. I think that you and I, you and him could get together and just create some kind of value.

[00:37:45] Vern: Is there any downside to meeting for 30 minutes? And they go, no. I go, great. Who's coming to mind? And I just get them to bridge a quick email introduction. I respond to that email introduction with a loom video. So they can see me, they can hear me. I introduce myself electronically like that. And then it works out really, really great.

[00:38:04] Vern: I, I play with people, I have fun. I say, Nick, what if you're 15 years down the road and things are going amazingly well, and all your friends and family are at this gathering, and they're going like, Nick, like, things are going so good. You look great. Things seem to be going good in your family. Like, what have you been doing?

[00:38:19] Vern: And all of a sudden you tell 'em about me or tell 'em what you've been doing, like how pissed are they gonna be that you didn't introduce them to me 15 years ago? Right. Like, I just have fun, right? So tho those are just some ideas, but, but just, again, it's a process. I have a clear process that I use for referral and I'm consistent with it, and, and I just keep kind of tweaking it.

[00:38:38] Vern: And I, I don't harass people, but every once in a while I'll, I'll, I'll just tell 'em to be honest. Like, Hey, Nick, like if you don't, no pressure, but is this something that you're willing, are you open to doing this? Are you open to it? If you're open to it, great. If not, just let me know. I won't bother you about it.

[00:38:53] Vern: But if you tell me that you are open to it, I will reach out and I'll hold you accountable. Is that fair? They're like, yeah, that's fair. Cool. And I coach my clients. I train them on how to make the conversation ridiculously easy. 'cause they're not doing the business that you're doing. They feel uncomfortable.

[00:39:09] Vern: It's awkward for them. So keep that in mind. Be a human being about it, and make it easy for.

[00:39:14] Nick: Beautiful. Man. It is a fantastic share for me. It all comes back down to the fir, one of the first things you said about relationships and building that without that you don't have that. I love the reach out piece to go back to them and say. Are you okay? Are you checking in? Lemme and you are thinking all the time about how can I add value?

[00:39:31] Nick: Give, give, give. As you said, give, give, give, ask. And you are essentially having a feedback conversation. How can I help you? You know, I, I, I love layering in that as well. 'cause that's another way of doing it is like that. How, what can I help you with right now? What else is going on? What do you love that we do together?

[00:39:46] Nick: What else would you like to see that we do together? What else don't you like? What, what do you wanna back off on? Is there anything like that? And I, that just makes the relationship even better as well. And then from that. There's a lead into that next piece as well. But I, I love what I loved all of that, all of that.

[00:39:58] Nick: Vern, I love what you said about like, just make it easier. They, they're not doing it like, like we are doing it. Like they're not necessarily in that spot. So, cool. So much gold here. Uh, thanks for sharing so much. Vern. Is there anything that you want to leave the audience with? And we've covered a lot already, but anything you'd, any part in words you'd like to share?

[00:40:16] Vern: Uh, uh, you know, again, it might be kind of a no brainer, especially for, I'm sure the people who are gonna be listening to this podcast, but, you know, um. Don't get stagnant. Don't, don't think that you've arrived in knowledge. I, I took years and years and years and spent tons of money and time and energy on personal development.

[00:40:37] Vern: I went to courses and retreats and programs and coaching and, and, and, and I, I thought in my early, in my early to mid twenties, like I thought, this is who I am. This is my life. And then I, I, I didn't, I wasn't aware of this. I got enlightened to the fact that, oh, you can change, you can grow, you can acquire, you can transform yourself, and you can become a, you can become that worthy ideal of who you want to be.

[00:41:02] Vern: So maybe spend some time of figuring out what that is. Work backwards and start acting in kind, start taking action and, and, and, and go to some programs, hang out with people like Nick and, and learn from those people and, and start to emulate their behavior and, and. Over the course of time, you won't see it.

[00:41:18] Vern: That's why it's really important to look back and see how far you've come. You'll totally transform yourself if you're just consistent and you just never, and I mean, never, ever give up.

[00:41:29] Nick: Ah, you're awesome. Ver listen, you know, you said maybe it's not the people that listened to this. Maybe they got it already. Maybe it's obvious, but it's the obvious stuff that we need to be reminded of

[00:41:39] Vern: Totally.

[00:41:39] Nick: it's so often that I, I'll, I'll work with someone, I'll see something and they'll go, oh yeah, I used to do that.

[00:41:45] Nick: And oh, okay, well when you did it, did it work? It's like, yeah. Do you wanna start doing it again and look it, it comes around like you probably stopped doing it for a good reason because there was another thing that they need to focus on. But it's not about new tools in the tool belt necessarily. It's going, okay, let's go to the shed and see where our tool belts are and let's pull out the right tool and that reminder so important man.

[00:42:05] Nick: Wild pleasure Vern. I really appreciate you coming on and to Seven Figure Advisor podcast and uh, I know that be a lot of people will be taking a lot of value from this, so I appreciate you man.

[00:42:14] Vern: Thanks for having me, man. Love to come back. Appreciate it.